1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, y'all, before we get started, let's talk about Pushnick. 2 00:00:22,556 --> 00:00:26,916 Speaker 1: Pushnick is a subscription program available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. 3 00:00:26,956 --> 00:00:31,356 Speaker 1: Subscriptions members will get access to bonus content like extended 4 00:00:31,436 --> 00:00:34,756 Speaker 1: versions of Our Quest Love and Beastie Boys episodes. You'll 5 00:00:34,796 --> 00:00:38,476 Speaker 1: also get uninterrupted ads free listening to many of your 6 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:43,276 Speaker 1: favorite podcasts like Ours, Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, and The 7 00:00:43,316 --> 00:00:46,436 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab. You can try it for free for seven days. 8 00:00:47,036 --> 00:00:57,476 Speaker 1: Sign up for Pushnick and Apple podcast subscriptions. Craig Finn, 9 00:00:57,716 --> 00:01:00,356 Speaker 1: the lead singer and songwriter for The Hold Steady, is 10 00:01:00,436 --> 00:01:04,276 Speaker 1: known for his vivid, literary style songwriting. He often writes 11 00:01:04,276 --> 00:01:08,676 Speaker 1: about characters going through an existential crisis, what the one 12 00:01:09,196 --> 00:01:16,876 Speaker 1: saw and the astray in the kitchen. I could tell 13 00:01:16,916 --> 00:01:22,076 Speaker 1: that it was difficult to bring that sort of subject 14 00:01:22,156 --> 00:01:26,356 Speaker 1: to Craig Finn grew up in Minneapolis, going to gigs 15 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:29,836 Speaker 1: for hometown heroes like Prince and The Replacements. After a 16 00:01:29,876 --> 00:01:32,556 Speaker 1: stint working as a financial broker, Finn moved to New 17 00:01:32,636 --> 00:01:35,396 Speaker 1: York City and eventually formed The Old Steady in two 18 00:01:35,396 --> 00:01:39,676 Speaker 1: thousand and three. This year, the band released their eighth 19 00:01:39,676 --> 00:01:43,996 Speaker 1: studio album, Open Door Policy, and this time, Finn says 20 00:01:44,036 --> 00:01:46,916 Speaker 1: he focused on themes related to the trappions of technology 21 00:01:47,196 --> 00:01:52,236 Speaker 1: and late stage capitalist. On today's episode, Craig Finn talks 22 00:01:52,236 --> 00:01:54,716 Speaker 1: to Bruce head them about how the Drive by Truckers 23 00:01:54,716 --> 00:01:58,276 Speaker 1: inspired him to create The Old Steady, about how Springsteen 24 00:01:58,316 --> 00:02:00,556 Speaker 1: taught him to vamp, and why he feels like it's 25 00:02:00,556 --> 00:02:03,036 Speaker 1: his duty to not only write about the party, but 26 00:02:03,116 --> 00:02:09,196 Speaker 1: to write about the hangover. Two. This is broke and 27 00:02:09,276 --> 00:02:12,636 Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmondson. 28 00:02:17,516 --> 00:02:20,836 Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Sedlam with Craig Finn. This is a thrill 29 00:02:20,916 --> 00:02:24,516 Speaker 1: for me for many reasons, but one is that the 30 00:02:24,556 --> 00:02:27,436 Speaker 1: person who introduced me to your music was my old 31 00:02:27,476 --> 00:02:31,236 Speaker 1: colleague David Carr at the New York Times. Now, David 32 00:02:31,236 --> 00:02:34,356 Speaker 1: like you was very funny, which is rare in pop 33 00:02:34,516 --> 00:02:37,836 Speaker 1: music and rare at the New York Times, i should say. 34 00:02:38,036 --> 00:02:41,036 Speaker 1: And he was from Minneapolis, and he could never explain 35 00:02:41,116 --> 00:02:44,236 Speaker 1: to me what was in the water in that part 36 00:02:44,236 --> 00:02:47,516 Speaker 1: of the world that produced like such a great scene 37 00:02:47,596 --> 00:02:51,076 Speaker 1: for bands. I mean, everyone points to the cold and 38 00:02:51,196 --> 00:02:55,196 Speaker 1: the reason to stay inside. I always felt like when 39 00:02:55,236 --> 00:02:57,676 Speaker 1: I was coming up in the nineties, there were people 40 00:02:57,756 --> 00:03:01,956 Speaker 1: going to shows regularly in Minneapolis, like attending shows at 41 00:03:01,956 --> 00:03:04,356 Speaker 1: First Avenue of the big club there that if they 42 00:03:04,396 --> 00:03:06,916 Speaker 1: lived in another city maybe wouldn't have been going to 43 00:03:07,116 --> 00:03:08,876 Speaker 1: that many shows, you know. I mean, I just think 44 00:03:08,876 --> 00:03:10,676 Speaker 1: it was kind of part of the fabric of the city, 45 00:03:10,796 --> 00:03:12,476 Speaker 1: and I think the city's proud of it, you know, 46 00:03:12,556 --> 00:03:14,516 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the city puts forth, Hey 47 00:03:14,516 --> 00:03:16,996 Speaker 1: where the place where the replacements came from? Who's ker Do, 48 00:03:17,516 --> 00:03:21,316 Speaker 1: Prince obviously now Lizzo, you know, has some connection to 49 00:03:21,316 --> 00:03:25,036 Speaker 1: the city which they put forth constantly. It's always been 50 00:03:25,116 --> 00:03:27,796 Speaker 1: a source of pride for the city. When you grew up. 51 00:03:27,876 --> 00:03:32,076 Speaker 1: Was there a sharp divide between the black clubs and 52 00:03:32,236 --> 00:03:35,956 Speaker 1: where Prince sort of made his name and the white 53 00:03:35,956 --> 00:03:38,636 Speaker 1: clubs for replacements and that kind of thing. You know, 54 00:03:38,676 --> 00:03:43,516 Speaker 1: there's certainly is a segregated city, But um, I think Prince, 55 00:03:43,636 --> 00:03:47,876 Speaker 1: you know, really is connected with First Avenue, which is 56 00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:51,356 Speaker 1: this place that a lot of music has come from, 57 00:03:51,356 --> 00:03:54,836 Speaker 1: and certainly the place where I saw the shows in 58 00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:57,156 Speaker 1: my formative years. You know, this is where I saw 59 00:03:57,156 --> 00:03:59,636 Speaker 1: the replacements and Who's ker Do, et cetera, sol Asylum 60 00:03:59,956 --> 00:04:02,436 Speaker 1: and Prince, you know in Purple Rain. That's that's the 61 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:05,196 Speaker 1: setting of it, and you know, people have often been 62 00:04:05,236 --> 00:04:07,516 Speaker 1: mistaken that he owned it, So Prince is very much 63 00:04:07,516 --> 00:04:10,076 Speaker 1: connected to the same club that everything was happening. I'm 64 00:04:10,116 --> 00:04:13,796 Speaker 1: not sure it's a big enough city to have, you know, 65 00:04:14,196 --> 00:04:16,836 Speaker 1: massive amount of clubs and have that kind of divide. 66 00:04:16,876 --> 00:04:20,716 Speaker 1: Everything gets, you know, in some way mushed together just 67 00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:24,156 Speaker 1: by the size of the city. Yeah, So for you, 68 00:04:24,796 --> 00:04:27,596 Speaker 1: was it the live scene or was there a particular record, 69 00:04:27,636 --> 00:04:30,676 Speaker 1: a particular song that you heard when you were a 70 00:04:30,756 --> 00:04:33,756 Speaker 1: kid that said, yeah, this is it. This is either 71 00:04:33,796 --> 00:04:36,316 Speaker 1: what I love or what I'm gonna do. I have 72 00:04:36,396 --> 00:04:40,196 Speaker 1: this thing where I remember seeing someone on TV. I 73 00:04:40,196 --> 00:04:42,756 Speaker 1: believe this is Ray Charles playing when I was very young. 74 00:04:42,796 --> 00:04:45,356 Speaker 1: I think it was on Sesame Street and I looked 75 00:04:45,356 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 1: at the screen and I said, I knew Happy Days. 76 00:04:48,436 --> 00:04:51,916 Speaker 1: I knew Fonzie was cool, right, So I said, hey, Mom, 77 00:04:52,116 --> 00:04:55,476 Speaker 1: is that guy cool? And she said, yeah, he's cool. 78 00:04:55,516 --> 00:04:57,956 Speaker 1: And I said, do we know anyone cool? She said no. 79 00:04:58,556 --> 00:05:00,676 Speaker 1: And I remember at that moment being like, well, this 80 00:05:00,716 --> 00:05:03,356 Speaker 1: is this is kind of annoying, Like I want to 81 00:05:03,356 --> 00:05:05,276 Speaker 1: go find something cool. And one of the first things 82 00:05:05,316 --> 00:05:08,196 Speaker 1: I remember another that attracted me was the Monkey's TV 83 00:05:08,276 --> 00:05:11,276 Speaker 1: show I mean, this guy idea of guys living together 84 00:05:11,316 --> 00:05:14,196 Speaker 1: and bursting into songs and having a good time while 85 00:05:14,196 --> 00:05:17,556 Speaker 1: playing music to music excited me always. But I think 86 00:05:17,596 --> 00:05:21,196 Speaker 1: the real kind of watershed moment was discovering local things 87 00:05:21,556 --> 00:05:24,876 Speaker 1: in Minneapolis, And so having these bands in my hometown 88 00:05:25,396 --> 00:05:29,596 Speaker 1: was somehow exciting and accessible to me and made me 89 00:05:29,636 --> 00:05:31,716 Speaker 1: sort of believe maybe that I could be in a 90 00:05:31,716 --> 00:05:34,676 Speaker 1: band too, in a way that led Zeppelin and Aerosmith 91 00:05:34,756 --> 00:05:37,436 Speaker 1: had not previous. And then when did it start? Feed 92 00:05:37,516 --> 00:05:40,516 Speaker 1: was guitar your first instrument? Yeah? I started playing guitar. 93 00:05:40,596 --> 00:05:43,836 Speaker 1: I got to get an electric guitar, and actually a 94 00:05:43,836 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 1: bit of luck, fortuitous luck, signed up for lessons and 95 00:05:48,596 --> 00:05:50,716 Speaker 1: a guy who was teaching lessons at that guitar store 96 00:05:50,796 --> 00:05:52,956 Speaker 1: was named Chris Osgood and he'd been a member of 97 00:05:52,996 --> 00:05:55,556 Speaker 1: a band called the Suicide Commandos, which was sort of 98 00:05:55,556 --> 00:05:59,036 Speaker 1: the first Minneapolis punk band. They'd signed to Blank Records 99 00:05:59,036 --> 00:06:02,636 Speaker 1: in like seventy six with Perubu, and he was a 100 00:06:02,676 --> 00:06:05,036 Speaker 1: fountain of knowledge, you know. He taught me a lot 101 00:06:05,036 --> 00:06:07,716 Speaker 1: about playing guitar, but a lot about other things too, 102 00:06:07,756 --> 00:06:10,516 Speaker 1: And he had this fun off like he had a landline, 103 00:06:10,516 --> 00:06:13,796 Speaker 1: you know phone in his lesson room and when phone 104 00:06:13,836 --> 00:06:16,236 Speaker 1: would ring, he'd turn up the stereo and then he 105 00:06:16,316 --> 00:06:19,396 Speaker 1: answered the phone, which is you know, countered a normal logic, 106 00:06:19,636 --> 00:06:21,156 Speaker 1: and I would always say, what what are you doing? 107 00:06:21,196 --> 00:06:23,116 Speaker 1: He said, you always want him to make you know, 108 00:06:23,476 --> 00:06:26,236 Speaker 1: make you think you're having a party. So he had 109 00:06:26,276 --> 00:06:28,116 Speaker 1: a lot of tips like that, and he turned me 110 00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:30,156 Speaker 1: onto a lot of cool music once he heard what 111 00:06:30,236 --> 00:06:33,756 Speaker 1: I was into and kind of got me started on 112 00:06:34,196 --> 00:06:37,676 Speaker 1: sort of the lifestyle, if you will. So you mentioned 113 00:06:37,676 --> 00:06:39,956 Speaker 1: the lifestyle. So that brings us to your new album 114 00:06:40,516 --> 00:06:43,756 Speaker 1: with the whold Steady open door policy. If anybody thought 115 00:06:43,756 --> 00:06:46,596 Speaker 1: you were mellowing with age with your solo albums, you're 116 00:06:46,716 --> 00:06:49,076 Speaker 1: right back in the right into the heart of the 117 00:06:49,116 --> 00:06:53,876 Speaker 1: wold Steadies. I guess worldview a lot of desperate people 118 00:06:54,076 --> 00:06:56,796 Speaker 1: kind of doing desperate things. Tell me about the writing 119 00:06:56,796 --> 00:07:00,716 Speaker 1: of this album, the album, I think one thing was 120 00:07:00,956 --> 00:07:03,516 Speaker 1: different from the last one. You know, we in twenty 121 00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:05,876 Speaker 1: nineteen we put our record called Thrashing through the Passion. 122 00:07:06,196 --> 00:07:07,996 Speaker 1: There was a collection kind of a single, so we 123 00:07:07,996 --> 00:07:12,156 Speaker 1: were putting stuff out as we as we recorded it, really, 124 00:07:12,356 --> 00:07:14,836 Speaker 1: which is exciting. I mean, the technology now allows you 125 00:07:14,876 --> 00:07:16,236 Speaker 1: to do that, and we know how to get at 126 00:07:16,236 --> 00:07:18,796 Speaker 1: our fans right through the you know, social media and whatnot. 127 00:07:19,236 --> 00:07:21,396 Speaker 1: So we're putting that out and then we ended up 128 00:07:21,476 --> 00:07:25,996 Speaker 1: kind of compiling them to make a release. And that's cool, 129 00:07:26,116 --> 00:07:29,316 Speaker 1: but when you're releasing quote unquote singles that way, you're 130 00:07:29,396 --> 00:07:33,076 Speaker 1: kind of always swinging for the fences. So for this record, 131 00:07:33,196 --> 00:07:36,076 Speaker 1: we decided early on, let's make this an album, and 132 00:07:36,116 --> 00:07:38,196 Speaker 1: we we didn't record it all at once. We recorded 133 00:07:38,276 --> 00:07:41,916 Speaker 1: in two different sessions. But in choosing to make an album, 134 00:07:42,036 --> 00:07:44,356 Speaker 1: it allowed me, especially as a lyricist, to make some 135 00:07:44,436 --> 00:07:47,596 Speaker 1: decisions in a way that kind of circle the wagons 136 00:07:47,596 --> 00:07:50,876 Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe make things make a whole, you know, 137 00:07:51,076 --> 00:07:54,076 Speaker 1: kind of create a bigger body of work than just 138 00:07:54,116 --> 00:07:57,316 Speaker 1: a collection of singles. And I think that was that's exciting. 139 00:07:57,396 --> 00:08:00,396 Speaker 1: I like working that way. I grew up listening to albums, 140 00:08:00,476 --> 00:08:02,316 Speaker 1: you know, and I think that's kind of what we're 141 00:08:02,356 --> 00:08:04,676 Speaker 1: good at. I mean, I think that like we've worked 142 00:08:04,796 --> 00:08:09,196 Speaker 1: with that length of format before successfully and so I 143 00:08:09,276 --> 00:08:10,836 Speaker 1: think that was kind of fun for us to go 144 00:08:10,876 --> 00:08:13,116 Speaker 1: back in that we're able to create something that was 145 00:08:13,196 --> 00:08:16,116 Speaker 1: kind of overarching like that. Do you see it as 146 00:08:16,196 --> 00:08:19,116 Speaker 1: like there's an arc story arc to the album, or 147 00:08:19,196 --> 00:08:21,756 Speaker 1: just means that you can take risks on certain songs. 148 00:08:22,276 --> 00:08:25,276 Speaker 1: The latter I mean, I think you if you're releasing singles, 149 00:08:25,276 --> 00:08:27,796 Speaker 1: you're never gonna make the weird ending song. You're never 150 00:08:27,836 --> 00:08:30,276 Speaker 1: gonna say, Okay, that can be a little short song 151 00:08:30,356 --> 00:08:32,996 Speaker 1: that sets up this next song. So the album allows 152 00:08:32,996 --> 00:08:34,996 Speaker 1: you to do things like that. But and in a 153 00:08:35,116 --> 00:08:37,316 Speaker 1: sense it's I don't know that it's a concept record, 154 00:08:37,676 --> 00:08:40,196 Speaker 1: but I was able to kind of early on identify 155 00:08:40,356 --> 00:08:43,636 Speaker 1: themes and kind of keep writing at it. And I thought, 156 00:08:43,676 --> 00:08:46,076 Speaker 1: you know, the things I was thinking about at the time, 157 00:08:46,236 --> 00:08:49,116 Speaker 1: or things like certainly mental health, but also you know, 158 00:08:49,196 --> 00:08:53,316 Speaker 1: kind of technology and late stage capitalism sort of how 159 00:08:53,396 --> 00:08:55,916 Speaker 1: that all ties into it and how that affects the 160 00:08:55,956 --> 00:08:59,116 Speaker 1: stories on the record. The record was all written and 161 00:08:59,556 --> 00:09:03,196 Speaker 1: almost done by the end of twenty nineteen. And it's 162 00:09:03,196 --> 00:09:05,556 Speaker 1: funny because I think back and at the time, twenty 163 00:09:05,636 --> 00:09:08,516 Speaker 1: nineteen felt like a very heavy year. Yeah, then we 164 00:09:08,596 --> 00:09:12,236 Speaker 1: had twenty twenty where this record kind of aged like 165 00:09:12,316 --> 00:09:15,156 Speaker 1: a you know, like in an oak barrel of whiskey 166 00:09:15,236 --> 00:09:18,436 Speaker 1: or whatever. You mentioned technology. And one thing I think 167 00:09:18,436 --> 00:09:21,636 Speaker 1: your album grapples with, which I think is hard for 168 00:09:21,716 --> 00:09:26,276 Speaker 1: songwriters is the effect of technology. You know, I'm thinking 169 00:09:26,316 --> 00:09:28,596 Speaker 1: and I want you to talk about the song Spices, 170 00:09:29,396 --> 00:09:31,476 Speaker 1: but that's about the sort of return of an old 171 00:09:31,516 --> 00:09:36,076 Speaker 1: flame who sends somebody a photo over text. Yeah, I 172 00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 1: mean I was thinking about like, like, you know, from 173 00:09:37,916 --> 00:09:40,276 Speaker 1: the years of touring, I just got a new phone, 174 00:09:40,276 --> 00:09:43,076 Speaker 1: and you know, they transfer all the contacts and there's 175 00:09:43,116 --> 00:09:45,836 Speaker 1: just people in there, right, you know, I mean, there's 176 00:09:45,876 --> 00:09:48,996 Speaker 1: just all kinds of people, people I don't recognize whatever, 177 00:09:49,076 --> 00:09:50,916 Speaker 1: you know that maybe I did an interview, I needed 178 00:09:50,916 --> 00:09:53,476 Speaker 1: to connect with them, and all of a sudden, any 179 00:09:53,476 --> 00:09:55,636 Speaker 1: of those people can pop up on your screen. And 180 00:09:55,676 --> 00:09:59,036 Speaker 1: I was thinking about, Oh, an adventure starting by really 181 00:09:59,076 --> 00:10:02,116 Speaker 1: anything kind of you know, popping up in this device 182 00:10:02,196 --> 00:10:05,996 Speaker 1: you're carrying around and saying meet me here, and you know, 183 00:10:06,036 --> 00:10:10,156 Speaker 1: our ability to transmit images as you say, And that 184 00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:14,076 Speaker 1: seemed like a very modern start to a story, like 185 00:10:14,156 --> 00:10:16,796 Speaker 1: it's almost to choose your own adventure or something, you know, 186 00:10:16,996 --> 00:10:19,836 Speaker 1: the clues pop up on your phone and you're following blindly. 187 00:10:19,956 --> 00:10:22,516 Speaker 1: That was kind of the idea behind Spices. But yeah, 188 00:10:22,516 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 1: you can reconnect in a second, in a in a 189 00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: couple of keystrokes and contact someone and that's that's unique 190 00:10:29,516 --> 00:10:33,076 Speaker 1: to our times. And I think the way we communicate, 191 00:10:33,156 --> 00:10:36,596 Speaker 1: the way we use technology certainly affects all of this, 192 00:10:36,796 --> 00:10:41,516 Speaker 1: you know, the political discourse, our friendships, etc. You know, 193 00:10:41,556 --> 00:10:44,076 Speaker 1: I was thinking this in terms of probably the songs 194 00:10:44,196 --> 00:10:47,316 Speaker 1: you grew up loving. I know you're you know, Springsteen 195 00:10:47,476 --> 00:10:50,516 Speaker 1: is one of your heroes, mentors, whatever you want to 196 00:10:50,516 --> 00:10:52,516 Speaker 1: call them. You know, a song like Darkness on the 197 00:10:52,596 --> 00:10:55,836 Speaker 1: Edge of Town is about somebody telling somebody that if 198 00:10:55,876 --> 00:10:58,596 Speaker 1: they want to tell somebody else how to find him, 199 00:10:59,156 --> 00:11:00,996 Speaker 1: they can find him in the edge of town. And 200 00:11:01,036 --> 00:11:04,476 Speaker 1: it's it's about disconnection in a way. It's about someone's 201 00:11:04,476 --> 00:11:07,236 Speaker 1: moved on with their life. And I was thinking about 202 00:11:07,236 --> 00:11:08,956 Speaker 1: that when I was listening to Spices, because I thought, 203 00:11:09,156 --> 00:11:11,956 Speaker 1: but yeah, but that person can be recalled instantly now, 204 00:11:12,236 --> 00:11:15,556 Speaker 1: or that person leaves, but you're following them on Instagram. 205 00:11:15,556 --> 00:11:19,076 Speaker 1: It's like they don't leave your life. Somehow, they don't leave. 206 00:11:19,156 --> 00:11:21,316 Speaker 1: And you know, there's this also this thing that I 207 00:11:21,796 --> 00:11:24,396 Speaker 1: was like, I've been amused by lately. Sometimes you'll meet 208 00:11:24,436 --> 00:11:28,796 Speaker 1: someone right and it's your friends dating someone saying, and 209 00:11:29,076 --> 00:11:31,036 Speaker 1: you follow you You have a nice night out with 210 00:11:31,116 --> 00:11:33,916 Speaker 1: this couple, and then you end up following that their date. 211 00:11:34,236 --> 00:11:36,716 Speaker 1: And this has happened to me several times recently. They 212 00:11:36,836 --> 00:11:39,356 Speaker 1: break up with this girl or this you know that 213 00:11:39,516 --> 00:11:43,676 Speaker 1: this partner, and you don't know. So it turns out 214 00:11:43,956 --> 00:11:46,276 Speaker 1: years later you're still following this person that you had 215 00:11:46,316 --> 00:11:48,476 Speaker 1: one night, you know, and a nice dinner with. At 216 00:11:48,516 --> 00:11:51,076 Speaker 1: some point then suddenly you realize that they're not even 217 00:11:51,196 --> 00:11:53,596 Speaker 1: that connected in my life anymore. There's a lot of 218 00:11:53,596 --> 00:11:56,276 Speaker 1: that in this album, you know. I think of Unpleasant Breakfast, 219 00:11:56,276 --> 00:12:00,796 Speaker 1: which is another sort of recalling of a bad relationship. Yeah, 220 00:12:00,836 --> 00:12:04,556 Speaker 1: I mean I think that was no this nostalgia that 221 00:12:04,596 --> 00:12:08,196 Speaker 1: we have and and in that case someone you know. 222 00:12:08,316 --> 00:12:10,836 Speaker 1: Mental health is a big part of this record, you know. 223 00:12:10,876 --> 00:12:12,716 Speaker 1: I mean I think I always used to I feel 224 00:12:12,756 --> 00:12:15,476 Speaker 1: like I used to write a lot about partying, and 225 00:12:15,596 --> 00:12:19,116 Speaker 1: at some point, you know, I'm getting towards fifty, at 226 00:12:19,156 --> 00:12:21,356 Speaker 1: some point, you know, you realize, like some of this 227 00:12:21,516 --> 00:12:24,916 Speaker 1: partying is self medication, etc. And the mental health is 228 00:12:24,956 --> 00:12:27,276 Speaker 1: the other side of this coin. I think I've become 229 00:12:27,396 --> 00:12:30,916 Speaker 1: way more interested in that. I think that's in that song. 230 00:12:31,996 --> 00:12:35,476 Speaker 1: Maybe the Denariator is having a hard time just looking 231 00:12:35,516 --> 00:12:38,916 Speaker 1: back on the before time and you know, saddened or 232 00:12:39,156 --> 00:12:42,476 Speaker 1: unable to connect a happy memory too because of where 233 00:12:42,476 --> 00:12:45,156 Speaker 1: it's got to. So tell me what your process for 234 00:12:45,156 --> 00:12:47,756 Speaker 1: writing is now. Now you do many of your own 235 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:50,436 Speaker 1: albums where you do the music and the lyrics. Do 236 00:12:50,476 --> 00:12:53,956 Speaker 1: you just do lyrics for the whole steady or do 237 00:12:53,956 --> 00:12:56,156 Speaker 1: you work on the music as well. I would say 238 00:12:56,156 --> 00:12:58,676 Speaker 1: it's an exception when I work on the music. There 239 00:12:58,716 --> 00:13:01,876 Speaker 1: are times I've made suggestions, but that's generally the exception. 240 00:13:01,996 --> 00:13:06,156 Speaker 1: Usually it's on Franz or Tad or Steve bringing something in. 241 00:13:06,436 --> 00:13:11,036 Speaker 1: And usually these days we'll do a lot more true technology. 242 00:13:11,076 --> 00:13:13,836 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of dropbox and someone will say, hey, 243 00:13:14,396 --> 00:13:17,436 Speaker 1: I've got this thing, and it's usually two parts, let's say, 244 00:13:17,636 --> 00:13:21,476 Speaker 1: and I'll start saying, well, I'll look through my used 245 00:13:21,516 --> 00:13:23,356 Speaker 1: to be my notebook but now it's the notes app 246 00:13:23,396 --> 00:13:25,036 Speaker 1: on my phone and see, like, you know, what have 247 00:13:25,116 --> 00:13:27,516 Speaker 1: I got? I got little things and I'll get something together. 248 00:13:27,836 --> 00:13:29,796 Speaker 1: But then we'll all get in a room and then 249 00:13:29,836 --> 00:13:33,916 Speaker 1: that's usually when we start moving things around and maybe 250 00:13:33,916 --> 00:13:37,396 Speaker 1: someone has an idea for a third part or you know, 251 00:13:37,476 --> 00:13:39,636 Speaker 1: and we start arranging it. And so there it's kind 252 00:13:39,676 --> 00:13:42,196 Speaker 1: of the two parts. It's the getting ready and then 253 00:13:42,236 --> 00:13:45,996 Speaker 1: the togetherness on the last two records. You know, the 254 00:13:46,276 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 1: the producer Josh Kaufman has showed up pretty early in 255 00:13:49,876 --> 00:13:52,956 Speaker 1: the process and kind of been in been around for 256 00:13:52,956 --> 00:13:55,836 Speaker 1: at least part of that second process, and pitched in 257 00:13:55,876 --> 00:13:58,836 Speaker 1: some ideas about arrangement and you know, how we how 258 00:13:58,876 --> 00:14:01,476 Speaker 1: we might approach things, which has been super helpful and cool. 259 00:14:01,996 --> 00:14:04,276 Speaker 1: And then is it you go off in a room 260 00:14:04,316 --> 00:14:07,316 Speaker 1: by yourself and figure out the lyrics or do the 261 00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:11,796 Speaker 1: tracks they send you have some they tweaked something in 262 00:14:11,836 --> 00:14:16,116 Speaker 1: your imagination? Yeah, I mean usually I have, you know, 263 00:14:16,236 --> 00:14:19,036 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff written down that that are just 264 00:14:19,116 --> 00:14:21,796 Speaker 1: sort of notes and things I might think of how 265 00:14:22,756 --> 00:14:26,996 Speaker 1: that might show up somewhere. Oftentimes it's, honestly, oftentimes it's 266 00:14:27,036 --> 00:14:29,556 Speaker 1: getting the first line. Sometimes the first line is just 267 00:14:30,196 --> 00:14:33,756 Speaker 1: enough to open up and go with it and see 268 00:14:33,796 --> 00:14:35,996 Speaker 1: where it takes me. Can you give me an example 269 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:38,716 Speaker 1: from this album where the first line really dictated where 270 00:14:38,756 --> 00:14:43,236 Speaker 1: you went? Yeah, I mean I think, um, that spicy song, 271 00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:45,596 Speaker 1: you know, She's she sent a picture of a plethora 272 00:14:45,596 --> 00:14:48,316 Speaker 1: of poker chips spread out on a bed between a 273 00:14:48,396 --> 00:14:51,236 Speaker 1: mouth and a leg. I thought, wow, like, what what 274 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:53,516 Speaker 1: what happens when you get that photo, you know, and 275 00:14:54,196 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 1: the idea of poker chips was kind of funny in 276 00:14:57,556 --> 00:15:01,196 Speaker 1: a hotel and I, you know, outside of a casino. 277 00:15:01,276 --> 00:15:02,876 Speaker 1: I sort of felt like that was a that was 278 00:15:02,916 --> 00:15:05,396 Speaker 1: a funny image and what would it what would it mean? 279 00:15:05,836 --> 00:15:08,716 Speaker 1: Do you know how a story's going to end when 280 00:15:08,716 --> 00:15:12,236 Speaker 1: you start the lyric? Not always I'd say fifty percent. 281 00:15:12,756 --> 00:15:16,876 Speaker 1: And I'm a great tinkerer, like I I honestly sort 282 00:15:16,916 --> 00:15:19,916 Speaker 1: of am always playing with things, and then when we 283 00:15:19,956 --> 00:15:22,236 Speaker 1: record it, when we cut the song, I feel like 284 00:15:22,596 --> 00:15:25,076 Speaker 1: it's done, like I can let go of it my mind. 285 00:15:25,156 --> 00:15:27,916 Speaker 1: But up until then, I'm especially with the small words 286 00:15:27,956 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 1: and the little you know again, the meter just kind 287 00:15:30,756 --> 00:15:34,396 Speaker 1: of toying with things. I'll go and U like sort 288 00:15:34,436 --> 00:15:37,356 Speaker 1: of hunt for the worst lines, like I'll look at 289 00:15:37,396 --> 00:15:39,156 Speaker 1: you know, I'll write out the song or type out 290 00:15:39,156 --> 00:15:41,436 Speaker 1: the song and then say like which is the worst line, 291 00:15:41,436 --> 00:15:43,276 Speaker 1: and then which is you know, if I had to 292 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:46,076 Speaker 1: replace one, what would I do? And kind of keep 293 00:15:46,116 --> 00:15:48,396 Speaker 1: at in that way, and that can change you know, 294 00:15:48,436 --> 00:15:51,636 Speaker 1: the story a little bit. But there are times I'll 295 00:15:51,636 --> 00:15:53,636 Speaker 1: start I have no idea where it's going, and then 296 00:15:53,636 --> 00:15:56,596 Speaker 1: there are times where I know exactly how this ends. Right. 297 00:15:56,796 --> 00:15:58,876 Speaker 1: There's some part of songwriting that reminds me of doing 298 00:15:58,876 --> 00:16:02,276 Speaker 1: cross words. It's like sometimes you just that one line 299 00:16:02,316 --> 00:16:05,116 Speaker 1: you get kind of is that big, big, long one 300 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:08,636 Speaker 1: across the middle, and everything sort of falls into place 301 00:16:08,676 --> 00:16:19,396 Speaker 1: after you at that. She sent a picture of a 302 00:16:19,436 --> 00:16:23,116 Speaker 1: plethora of poker chips spread on the bed between a 303 00:16:23,276 --> 00:16:27,156 Speaker 1: mouth and a leg. She said, there's pretty many people already, 304 00:16:27,316 --> 00:16:32,956 Speaker 1: but still I wish you were here. I hadn't really 305 00:16:33,036 --> 00:16:36,316 Speaker 1: seen her since the previous winter. She'd been a drop 306 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:40,316 Speaker 1: dead number since later last December, but here she is 307 00:16:40,436 --> 00:16:45,356 Speaker 1: rising again. Happy Easter. You want to go get some beers? 308 00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:50,556 Speaker 1: How the part tenders were strangling their shakers. It was 309 00:16:50,636 --> 00:16:54,676 Speaker 1: springtime in the sweet part of the city. It's nice 310 00:16:54,676 --> 00:16:58,596 Speaker 1: to hit the taverns with familiar companions. I kind of 311 00:16:58,636 --> 00:17:10,836 Speaker 1: like it when she's laughing at me. That's a bit 312 00:17:10,836 --> 00:17:14,276 Speaker 1: of spices from the hold Steadies new album, Open Door Policy. 313 00:17:14,676 --> 00:17:21,156 Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a quick break, We're back 314 00:17:21,156 --> 00:17:24,276 Speaker 1: with more from Craigfinn and Bruce had Them. You're a 315 00:17:24,316 --> 00:17:27,236 Speaker 1: literary writer in the sense that, hey, you write a lot, 316 00:17:27,756 --> 00:17:31,876 Speaker 1: but you have these recurring characters that almost since the 317 00:17:31,916 --> 00:17:34,836 Speaker 1: start of your career, I think even before the whole Steady, 318 00:17:35,836 --> 00:17:39,676 Speaker 1: you had certain characters that would recur. They're not name necessarily, 319 00:17:39,716 --> 00:17:43,196 Speaker 1: but did this character show up in this record as well? 320 00:17:43,836 --> 00:17:46,556 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think so. I always feel like 321 00:17:46,596 --> 00:17:50,396 Speaker 1: it's it's in my best interest to scare that. But no, 322 00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:53,036 Speaker 1: I think this is a new I certainly think they're 323 00:17:53,076 --> 00:17:56,076 Speaker 1: all living in the same universe, but I think this 324 00:17:56,156 --> 00:17:59,476 Speaker 1: is a new set of people. I believe that I 325 00:17:59,516 --> 00:18:02,956 Speaker 1: think things are interesting from about fifteen years ago. And 326 00:18:03,836 --> 00:18:05,796 Speaker 1: so when I think when this band started and I 327 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:07,756 Speaker 1: was in my mid thirties, I was writing a lot 328 00:18:07,796 --> 00:18:10,836 Speaker 1: about people who were twenty, you know, and uh, that's 329 00:18:10,836 --> 00:18:15,476 Speaker 1: an age of great confidence and maybe maybe too much confidence, 330 00:18:15,516 --> 00:18:18,636 Speaker 1: and people can wonderfully get into trouble due to sort 331 00:18:18,636 --> 00:18:21,996 Speaker 1: of their cockiness. But as I get towards fifty, I 332 00:18:21,996 --> 00:18:24,316 Speaker 1: think people in their mid thirties are more interesting to me. 333 00:18:24,356 --> 00:18:26,276 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the people on this 334 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:29,156 Speaker 1: record are those people. And you know, I guess I'm 335 00:18:29,196 --> 00:18:32,836 Speaker 1: more interested in people who are stuck, you know, in 336 00:18:32,836 --> 00:18:36,116 Speaker 1: some way, and they may be making bad decisions, but 337 00:18:36,196 --> 00:18:39,396 Speaker 1: they're not so wild about it, and I think that 338 00:18:39,436 --> 00:18:43,276 Speaker 1: there's there's something more interesting in those people now to me, 339 00:18:43,476 --> 00:18:45,556 Speaker 1: you know, I used to really love writing about people 340 00:18:45,556 --> 00:18:48,436 Speaker 1: who are partying a lot. Now I think I'm more 341 00:18:48,516 --> 00:18:51,476 Speaker 1: interested in, like, uh, you know, the grandma who's giving 342 00:18:51,476 --> 00:18:54,116 Speaker 1: that guy two hundred dollars every day, the sort of 343 00:18:54,116 --> 00:18:57,556 Speaker 1: the codependency of it all, And that's that's fascinating to me. 344 00:18:57,596 --> 00:19:01,236 Speaker 1: And I think that those kind of relationships interests me 345 00:19:01,316 --> 00:19:04,076 Speaker 1: a lot these days because though that's that's the fuel 346 00:19:04,156 --> 00:19:07,596 Speaker 1: that keeps that guy parting, but somehow that's that's deeper 347 00:19:07,796 --> 00:19:10,916 Speaker 1: and weirder to me. You're associated with these kind of 348 00:19:10,996 --> 00:19:14,316 Speaker 1: characters partying and up all night, and even though there's 349 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:17,636 Speaker 1: a lot of hangovers and people throwing up, there is 350 00:19:17,676 --> 00:19:20,396 Speaker 1: something still there's a kind of shoddy glamor about it all. 351 00:19:20,556 --> 00:19:22,316 Speaker 1: Do you still look back on that as kind of 352 00:19:22,356 --> 00:19:27,356 Speaker 1: a glamorous, exciting time. Well, I think all these things 353 00:19:27,596 --> 00:19:30,996 Speaker 1: cause elation. Right, you know, you can drink six glasses 354 00:19:30,996 --> 00:19:34,236 Speaker 1: of champagne. It's gonna be pretty fun that night. It's 355 00:19:34,636 --> 00:19:37,436 Speaker 1: it's not the next morning. But I don't think it's 356 00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:40,036 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's hard to deny that there are 357 00:19:40,116 --> 00:19:42,796 Speaker 1: good times that can come from that, but you know, 358 00:19:42,836 --> 00:19:46,236 Speaker 1: if it's not repeated every night of your life, for 359 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:49,436 Speaker 1: every night for a long period. But yeah, I do 360 00:19:49,516 --> 00:19:53,396 Speaker 1: think that there is fun and like I said, elation, 361 00:19:53,796 --> 00:19:56,276 Speaker 1: I do believe it's sort of a duty to kind 362 00:19:56,276 --> 00:19:58,876 Speaker 1: of write about the hangover too. It reminds me a 363 00:19:58,916 --> 00:20:01,596 Speaker 1: bit and this is another Minnesota reference. It reminds me 364 00:20:01,596 --> 00:20:04,596 Speaker 1: a bit of Fitzgerald. Yeah, I mean I think there's 365 00:20:05,236 --> 00:20:07,876 Speaker 1: there's that. I mean, the waiste, sort of the garbage 366 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:09,716 Speaker 1: at the end of the night, sweeping up the cups 367 00:20:09,756 --> 00:20:12,516 Speaker 1: as sort of a fet Fitzgerald thing, you know, like 368 00:20:12,596 --> 00:20:14,876 Speaker 1: the bottles on the floor at the end of the show. 369 00:20:15,116 --> 00:20:17,516 Speaker 1: There is something so distinct about that sound of when 370 00:20:17,556 --> 00:20:21,276 Speaker 1: you're sweeping up those those red beer cups, makes it 371 00:20:21,396 --> 00:20:24,316 Speaker 1: sound like nothing else. I used to when we first 372 00:20:24,316 --> 00:20:26,876 Speaker 1: started touring, I used to always like to take a photo. 373 00:20:27,116 --> 00:20:29,236 Speaker 1: I used to carry around, like you know, before they're 374 00:20:29,276 --> 00:20:31,356 Speaker 1: all on our phones, a digital camera and I always 375 00:20:31,436 --> 00:20:33,756 Speaker 1: used to like to take a photo of the mess 376 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:35,916 Speaker 1: at the end of the show after the crowd left. 377 00:20:37,156 --> 00:20:41,276 Speaker 1: A song I found really fascinating and disturbing and I'm 378 00:20:41,276 --> 00:20:44,236 Speaker 1: not sure why is prior procedure. Can you tell me 379 00:20:44,276 --> 00:20:47,116 Speaker 1: a bit about that song? Yeah, prior procedure is actually 380 00:20:47,156 --> 00:20:49,996 Speaker 1: the song that mentions the lyric open door policy, so 381 00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:52,596 Speaker 1: it's I don't know a hinge on the whole thing. 382 00:20:53,036 --> 00:20:56,036 Speaker 1: That song is sort of about someone who's or you know, 383 00:20:56,036 --> 00:20:58,636 Speaker 1: a couple who's been displaced and are trying to find 384 00:20:58,636 --> 00:21:01,756 Speaker 1: a place to stay and end up, you know, going 385 00:21:01,796 --> 00:21:05,756 Speaker 1: to this kind of fictitious crash pad that's hosted by 386 00:21:05,756 --> 00:21:08,636 Speaker 1: a really rich guy, a billionaire or something, and you know, 387 00:21:08,676 --> 00:21:11,316 Speaker 1: it's the idea that he's being generous by letting all 388 00:21:11,316 --> 00:21:14,116 Speaker 1: these people stay there, but he's also kind of controlling 389 00:21:14,116 --> 00:21:16,836 Speaker 1: the strings, right, you know, he's still in charge, and 390 00:21:16,876 --> 00:21:20,516 Speaker 1: it's very much a culture personality, and I think that 391 00:21:20,556 --> 00:21:23,036 Speaker 1: there's sort of a modern kind of an allegory there. 392 00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:27,316 Speaker 1: There's that seems like the relationship we have with, you know, 393 00:21:27,356 --> 00:21:30,196 Speaker 1: some of the very wealthy people in this country. I mean, 394 00:21:30,236 --> 00:21:33,356 Speaker 1: it's kind of a science fiction thing, but it seemed 395 00:21:33,396 --> 00:21:38,316 Speaker 1: like something that could happen. It reminded me of the 396 00:21:38,436 --> 00:21:40,996 Speaker 1: case of the He was a venture capitalist who co 397 00:21:41,116 --> 00:21:45,196 Speaker 1: founded Zappos, the shoe company, and he died recently, but 398 00:21:45,356 --> 00:21:47,596 Speaker 1: he just seemed to travel around to Vegas in these 399 00:21:47,636 --> 00:21:49,796 Speaker 1: places and it was just always a party people were 400 00:21:49,836 --> 00:21:53,396 Speaker 1: always around him spending his money. But this seemed to 401 00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:55,156 Speaker 1: go on for years that people would just sort of 402 00:21:55,196 --> 00:21:57,956 Speaker 1: attached themselves and then sort of wander off. And that's 403 00:21:58,036 --> 00:22:00,916 Speaker 1: that's what it reminded me of. Somehow I made this 404 00:22:00,956 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 1: guy up in my head. But I do remember reading 405 00:22:03,476 --> 00:22:07,556 Speaker 1: that are the article about that guy, and it seemed 406 00:22:07,596 --> 00:22:09,596 Speaker 1: like exactly the type of thing I was thinking of, 407 00:22:09,636 --> 00:22:14,396 Speaker 1: this sort of hedonistic but financial with you know, backing 408 00:22:14,396 --> 00:22:18,596 Speaker 1: of massive financial success. Because there are so many stories 409 00:22:18,596 --> 00:22:21,596 Speaker 1: in this and it's so varied, what is the inspiration 410 00:22:21,636 --> 00:22:24,516 Speaker 1: for these stories? Are there novels you're reading now or 411 00:22:24,556 --> 00:22:27,236 Speaker 1: is it the newspaper both? I mean I get a 412 00:22:27,236 --> 00:22:30,196 Speaker 1: lot of stuff from fiction. I always I do like 413 00:22:30,596 --> 00:22:34,196 Speaker 1: reading fiction. I think in some ways it's meditative to 414 00:22:34,316 --> 00:22:38,196 Speaker 1: go into someone else's world right in a way that 415 00:22:38,916 --> 00:22:43,996 Speaker 1: no other form, you know, movies, music and everything else, 416 00:22:44,076 --> 00:22:47,036 Speaker 1: Like I can kind of have some distraction happening. But 417 00:22:47,076 --> 00:22:49,996 Speaker 1: if I'm really into a novel, I'm in there, and 418 00:22:50,076 --> 00:22:53,396 Speaker 1: so those that's a place that inspires stories. I don't 419 00:22:53,436 --> 00:22:55,396 Speaker 1: know that I can point to an exact story and 420 00:22:55,436 --> 00:22:58,396 Speaker 1: the record that's influenced by a novel, but it certain 421 00:22:58,436 --> 00:23:00,916 Speaker 1: gives me something to aspire to that kind of fiction, 422 00:23:01,516 --> 00:23:05,116 Speaker 1: creating a world that people can inhabit. I also think 423 00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 1: just taking things in and motion. Travel for me is 424 00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:12,716 Speaker 1: wildly exciting. Unfortunately, that is something we've lost over the 425 00:23:12,756 --> 00:23:15,276 Speaker 1: past year. But one of the things I've talked with 426 00:23:15,316 --> 00:23:18,716 Speaker 1: my bandmates about, you know, not just the travel where 427 00:23:18,716 --> 00:23:20,756 Speaker 1: you get to go to the top of a mountain, 428 00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:23,676 Speaker 1: but the travel that you end up having a beer 429 00:23:23,676 --> 00:23:26,316 Speaker 1: in the Hilton Garden in you know, near the airport 430 00:23:26,356 --> 00:23:30,636 Speaker 1: and in a small Midwestern city. Somehow that ends up 431 00:23:30,676 --> 00:23:34,596 Speaker 1: being really inspiring in just its sense of displacement and 432 00:23:34,676 --> 00:23:40,116 Speaker 1: being observational in those moments. What has the isolation of 433 00:23:40,156 --> 00:23:42,916 Speaker 1: the last year. What's that meant for your writing? I'm 434 00:23:42,956 --> 00:23:44,956 Speaker 1: proud to say I've been able to write a ton 435 00:23:45,236 --> 00:23:47,516 Speaker 1: like I've just been able to crank it out. But 436 00:23:47,516 --> 00:23:50,356 Speaker 1: I have two sort of a two step process. Number one, 437 00:23:50,556 --> 00:23:53,996 Speaker 1: putting words on paper. That's been surprisingly easy for me 438 00:23:54,036 --> 00:23:57,476 Speaker 1: this year. The second part is this any good I 439 00:23:57,796 --> 00:24:02,916 Speaker 1: can't tell, you know, my sort of ability to criticize myself, 440 00:24:02,996 --> 00:24:06,876 Speaker 1: my judgment has really gone away in this I think 441 00:24:06,876 --> 00:24:09,596 Speaker 1: it's the lack of just sorting your normal life compare 442 00:24:09,636 --> 00:24:12,276 Speaker 1: things too. I mean, I've just have a pile of stuff. 443 00:24:12,276 --> 00:24:14,596 Speaker 1: Now I'll either get that back or I'll use a 444 00:24:14,636 --> 00:24:17,476 Speaker 1: producer to help me wade through it. I'm definitely not 445 00:24:17,516 --> 00:24:20,876 Speaker 1: throwing things out because I'm like, I don't know, Oh, 446 00:24:20,916 --> 00:24:24,356 Speaker 1: that's interesting. It's just that the judgment has been suspended 447 00:24:24,396 --> 00:24:28,156 Speaker 1: this year. Yeah, very much so. And I don't I 448 00:24:28,916 --> 00:24:31,796 Speaker 1: don't know why. I don't know what that is, but 449 00:24:32,076 --> 00:24:34,916 Speaker 1: that is definitely what I have felt. And I've actually 450 00:24:34,916 --> 00:24:36,956 Speaker 1: talked to a few people that have felt the same. 451 00:24:38,076 --> 00:24:41,396 Speaker 1: What has because you are you are a church going Catholic, 452 00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:43,796 Speaker 1: What is that meant for you in the past year 453 00:24:43,956 --> 00:24:48,276 Speaker 1: not to have that fellowship. I've gone back and forth 454 00:24:48,436 --> 00:24:50,916 Speaker 1: with my faith a lot over the past number of 455 00:24:50,956 --> 00:24:53,836 Speaker 1: years and really my whole life. And uh, I find 456 00:24:53,836 --> 00:24:56,796 Speaker 1: a lot of beauty in church and and and certainly 457 00:24:56,916 --> 00:25:00,116 Speaker 1: in the Bible as well as the rituals of a 458 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:05,236 Speaker 1: Catholic mass. I have gotten frustrated and increasingly frustrated with 459 00:25:06,076 --> 00:25:09,956 Speaker 1: the church, you know, and and and especially some of 460 00:25:09,996 --> 00:25:13,676 Speaker 1: the political stances it's taken repeatedly, but especially over the 461 00:25:13,716 --> 00:25:16,316 Speaker 1: past four years. So I was at a period of 462 00:25:16,436 --> 00:25:20,836 Speaker 1: not really active church going when this started. Well, when 463 00:25:20,836 --> 00:25:24,156 Speaker 1: I say you're a Catholic, that that means you're always 464 00:25:24,156 --> 00:25:27,196 Speaker 1: battling with the Catholic Church. So yeah, I mean I 465 00:25:27,196 --> 00:25:30,076 Speaker 1: think that that's probably that's just probably part like I've 466 00:25:30,116 --> 00:25:32,636 Speaker 1: accepted that part of it. Like I'll probably be back 467 00:25:32,636 --> 00:25:36,036 Speaker 1: and back and forth from my life. You know, I'm 468 00:25:35,556 --> 00:25:39,596 Speaker 1: a pretty good run of not going. Were your parents' 469 00:25:39,836 --> 00:25:42,556 Speaker 1: churchgoers when you grew up? Oh yeah, yeah, the whole family? 470 00:25:42,596 --> 00:25:44,596 Speaker 1: You know, that's that's where I got it. My father 471 00:25:44,956 --> 00:25:48,196 Speaker 1: was raised pretty Catholic and you know, still does confession 472 00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:50,916 Speaker 1: and all that, and that was part of our you know, 473 00:25:51,276 --> 00:25:54,996 Speaker 1: Holy Days, et cetera. Every Sunday, Holy Days, no meat 474 00:25:55,036 --> 00:25:59,156 Speaker 1: on Fridays, etc. So all of that was part of 475 00:25:59,156 --> 00:26:02,036 Speaker 1: my upbringing. And you know, like I said, I still 476 00:26:02,076 --> 00:26:03,916 Speaker 1: I still find beauty in it. I just have to 477 00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:09,316 Speaker 1: figure out this identic Catholicism in my head. It is 478 00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:12,716 Speaker 1: probably only going to live there. It's more muted now 479 00:26:12,756 --> 00:26:16,076 Speaker 1: in your lyrics than it once was. Yeah, well, Separation 480 00:26:16,236 --> 00:26:18,516 Speaker 1: Sunday was sort of the high point of that. Our 481 00:26:18,596 --> 00:26:21,636 Speaker 1: second record, man, that's when I went the deep dive. 482 00:26:22,716 --> 00:26:26,436 Speaker 1: It does not appear as much on this record at all. 483 00:26:26,476 --> 00:26:29,236 Speaker 1: I think Saint Francis has mentioned, and that's almost sort 484 00:26:29,236 --> 00:26:33,556 Speaker 1: of the most secular saint you can think of. There's 485 00:26:33,556 --> 00:26:37,036 Speaker 1: a movie Brother's Son's Sister Moon from nineteen seventy two 486 00:26:37,076 --> 00:26:40,396 Speaker 1: that is about Saint Francis that is just gorgeous, and 487 00:26:41,076 --> 00:26:43,476 Speaker 1: that's almost the I almost think of him as more 488 00:26:43,516 --> 00:26:45,756 Speaker 1: of a secular hippie figure, and then I do as 489 00:26:45,796 --> 00:26:50,796 Speaker 1: a hard Catholic saint. But I think maybe it mirrors 490 00:26:50,836 --> 00:26:53,716 Speaker 1: sort of my own relationship with the church. Probably, and 491 00:26:53,836 --> 00:26:57,196 Speaker 1: maybe I feel like I've already gone there just wasn't 492 00:26:57,196 --> 00:27:00,596 Speaker 1: on my mind when I made this record, and who 493 00:27:00,636 --> 00:27:03,956 Speaker 1: knows it could return. After a quick break, we'll be 494 00:27:03,996 --> 00:27:10,476 Speaker 1: back with more from Craig fan We're back with the 495 00:27:10,556 --> 00:27:14,076 Speaker 1: rest of Bruce Hedlum's conversation with Craig Finn. You know, 496 00:27:14,196 --> 00:27:18,476 Speaker 1: one of my great arguments with David Carr was that 497 00:27:18,716 --> 00:27:23,036 Speaker 1: David didn't like bands to get old. He liked their 498 00:27:23,156 --> 00:27:30,116 Speaker 1: you know, youthful, crazy, stage diving origin, and it worried 499 00:27:30,156 --> 00:27:32,116 Speaker 1: him when they got older. Now, I will say, when 500 00:27:32,116 --> 00:27:35,356 Speaker 1: the Replacements got back together, David was first in line. 501 00:27:36,116 --> 00:27:38,716 Speaker 1: You're older now, I don't did you think you'd be 502 00:27:38,996 --> 00:27:42,676 Speaker 1: in this band this long? Well, I don't have I 503 00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:45,036 Speaker 1: can't answer that for sure, but I will say that 504 00:27:45,316 --> 00:27:47,596 Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, before we started the whole study, 505 00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:51,116 Speaker 1: I went to see the Drive By Truckers at Bowery 506 00:27:51,156 --> 00:27:53,636 Speaker 1: Ballrooms and it was one of the best shows I've 507 00:27:53,636 --> 00:27:56,836 Speaker 1: ever seen, and I found it incredibly moving. And they 508 00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:59,316 Speaker 1: were guys I was in my early to mid I 509 00:27:59,436 --> 00:28:03,116 Speaker 1: was thirty one, but the guys in the band were 510 00:28:03,156 --> 00:28:05,636 Speaker 1: mostly a little older than I was, and that it 511 00:28:05,756 --> 00:28:07,716 Speaker 1: really excited me. It made me want to be in 512 00:28:07,756 --> 00:28:10,116 Speaker 1: a band again. But what what struck me in that 513 00:28:10,196 --> 00:28:13,356 Speaker 1: moment was that, Okay, these guys are not playing music 514 00:28:13,436 --> 00:28:17,676 Speaker 1: that's like the most absolute hip music for this exact minute. 515 00:28:18,076 --> 00:28:21,956 Speaker 1: However it's classic, and ten years from now it'll sound 516 00:28:21,996 --> 00:28:24,676 Speaker 1: as good as it does today. And so I think 517 00:28:24,676 --> 00:28:27,276 Speaker 1: when we started the whold Steady, there was almost an 518 00:28:27,316 --> 00:28:29,636 Speaker 1: idea that we were trying to create something that was 519 00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:32,636 Speaker 1: that was a little bit more classic. And I was 520 00:28:32,916 --> 00:28:35,556 Speaker 1: already in my thirties and I'd been in a Lifter 521 00:28:35,636 --> 00:28:37,676 Speaker 1: Polar Cut. There was like more of an indie rock 522 00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:40,916 Speaker 1: band in my twenties. I sort of felt like I'd 523 00:28:40,916 --> 00:28:43,116 Speaker 1: crashed out at twenty nine and I was trying to 524 00:28:43,116 --> 00:28:46,036 Speaker 1: figure out what a life in rock and roll would 525 00:28:46,036 --> 00:28:48,756 Speaker 1: look like, and it may start with making something that 526 00:28:48,956 --> 00:28:51,836 Speaker 1: is more classic. So well, I can say for sure 527 00:28:51,876 --> 00:28:54,876 Speaker 1: I even thought about being fifty when I when I 528 00:28:54,916 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 1: started the Whole Steady, I can say that I was 529 00:28:57,916 --> 00:29:00,956 Speaker 1: trying to see a band that could age gracefully. And 530 00:29:00,996 --> 00:29:02,756 Speaker 1: I'm happy for that. I mean, I think we created 531 00:29:02,796 --> 00:29:07,716 Speaker 1: something that that has and does you know rock and 532 00:29:07,796 --> 00:29:10,676 Speaker 1: roll is um it gets older every year like the 533 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:14,156 Speaker 1: rest of us. So I think it's finding or attempting 534 00:29:14,196 --> 00:29:18,156 Speaker 1: to find a place that isn't all twenty year olds, 535 00:29:18,236 --> 00:29:21,836 Speaker 1: you know, and stage dives and broken bottles and is 536 00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:23,356 Speaker 1: it true I heard a story that you were really 537 00:29:23,396 --> 00:29:26,636 Speaker 1: influenced by the Last Waltz. Yes. In my twenties, I 538 00:29:26,676 --> 00:29:29,636 Speaker 1: was really kind of connected to indie rock and punk rock, 539 00:29:30,316 --> 00:29:33,716 Speaker 1: and I almost had a hole in my knowledge where 540 00:29:33,716 --> 00:29:36,996 Speaker 1: it came to a lot of classic rock. And so 541 00:29:37,476 --> 00:29:39,796 Speaker 1: as I sort of burned out on indie rock, I 542 00:29:39,876 --> 00:29:42,916 Speaker 1: started to kind of go back and fill those holes. 543 00:29:42,956 --> 00:29:45,676 Speaker 1: And you know, it was an back then you could 544 00:29:45,716 --> 00:29:48,316 Speaker 1: go to a used record store and find a used 545 00:29:48,596 --> 00:29:51,276 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones record for three dollars and come home and 546 00:29:51,356 --> 00:29:54,076 Speaker 1: be like Wow, this is better than almost any indie 547 00:29:54,116 --> 00:29:57,476 Speaker 1: rock band I know, or any of them. But then 548 00:29:57,516 --> 00:30:00,436 Speaker 1: the Last Waltz was reissued in the early two thousands, 549 00:30:00,996 --> 00:30:03,396 Speaker 1: I knew nothing about the band pretty much, and I 550 00:30:03,476 --> 00:30:06,436 Speaker 1: was just really excited by the way they played together 551 00:30:06,596 --> 00:30:10,556 Speaker 1: and sort of the musicality and the looseness of it. 552 00:30:10,676 --> 00:30:14,996 Speaker 1: And there's this idea that um in indie rock, there's 553 00:30:14,996 --> 00:30:18,356 Speaker 1: this almost choreography that I felt like was taking place 554 00:30:18,396 --> 00:30:20,436 Speaker 1: where it's like, if I play these notes in a 555 00:30:20,516 --> 00:30:23,316 Speaker 1: row right, and you play them too, It's almost like 556 00:30:23,356 --> 00:30:25,916 Speaker 1: that game Simon where you're you have to hit things 557 00:30:26,036 --> 00:30:28,836 Speaker 1: in a you know, in a pattern. Then if we 558 00:30:28,916 --> 00:30:31,396 Speaker 1: if we line it all up, it'll sound good. But 559 00:30:31,756 --> 00:30:35,476 Speaker 1: you know, and this sounds really rudimentary or basic, but 560 00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:38,156 Speaker 1: I just it was exciting to see people play music 561 00:30:38,436 --> 00:30:40,876 Speaker 1: and listen to each other and react to each other 562 00:30:40,996 --> 00:30:43,996 Speaker 1: and play with a little looseness. And I remember seeing 563 00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:47,476 Speaker 1: things like Springsteen at the time, and and and the 564 00:30:47,516 --> 00:30:49,356 Speaker 1: way that in the middle of the song the band 565 00:30:49,436 --> 00:30:52,716 Speaker 1: might vamp and he'll tell a story, and I remember thinking, like, 566 00:30:52,876 --> 00:30:55,076 Speaker 1: I want to do that, Like indie rock bands don't 567 00:30:55,116 --> 00:30:57,076 Speaker 1: do that. They just plow ahead and play their song. 568 00:30:57,116 --> 00:30:59,676 Speaker 1: And stop. You know, well, what if in this band, 569 00:30:59,676 --> 00:31:02,356 Speaker 1: we said, well, I got something to say, and the 570 00:31:02,396 --> 00:31:05,276 Speaker 1: band kind of went down and vamped a little bit, 571 00:31:05,316 --> 00:31:06,956 Speaker 1: and I told the story and then we brought it 572 00:31:06,996 --> 00:31:09,476 Speaker 1: back and that's something we started doing the whole steady 573 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:12,636 Speaker 1: and it was really exciting. And again that sounds really basic, 574 00:31:12,756 --> 00:31:15,276 Speaker 1: but that's just something I wasn't getting out of indie rock. 575 00:31:15,836 --> 00:31:18,196 Speaker 1: M It's something you'd have gotten out of Ray Charles 576 00:31:18,396 --> 00:31:21,236 Speaker 1: your first for sure. For sure. I mean all that, 577 00:31:21,396 --> 00:31:24,156 Speaker 1: all that stuff, And again it's not it's not rocket science. 578 00:31:24,156 --> 00:31:26,516 Speaker 1: It seems easy, but at the time that's where my 579 00:31:26,516 --> 00:31:28,636 Speaker 1: head was at. No, I think it's very hard. I've 580 00:31:28,636 --> 00:31:31,996 Speaker 1: only seen Springsteen once, but he did a the band stopped, 581 00:31:31,996 --> 00:31:34,516 Speaker 1: he did a big vamp on something, and he talked 582 00:31:34,556 --> 00:31:36,756 Speaker 1: about what freedom meant when he was a kid, and 583 00:31:36,796 --> 00:31:38,996 Speaker 1: then they broke into raise your Hand. I think it's 584 00:31:39,076 --> 00:31:41,156 Speaker 1: it's the old Eddie Floyd's song, and it was just yeah, 585 00:31:41,196 --> 00:31:44,396 Speaker 1: it was fantastic. Yeah, you know, and you can, and 586 00:31:44,476 --> 00:31:47,076 Speaker 1: you can in that moment maybe even pull something or 587 00:31:47,076 --> 00:31:49,116 Speaker 1: that the audience, someone in the audience is doing, or 588 00:31:49,156 --> 00:31:51,316 Speaker 1: something that happened that day and kind of tie it 589 00:31:51,356 --> 00:31:53,556 Speaker 1: all in and I mean in that sense you are 590 00:31:53,676 --> 00:31:56,516 Speaker 1: kind of bringing that that church element to it. You 591 00:31:56,556 --> 00:32:00,676 Speaker 1: know that the homily or the sermon about something that 592 00:32:00,676 --> 00:32:03,076 Speaker 1: that the audience really understands in that moment or that 593 00:32:03,156 --> 00:32:07,316 Speaker 1: week or that day. You've done four solo albums, Yeah, 594 00:32:07,356 --> 00:32:09,396 Speaker 1: what's that like? Now when you come back to the band, 595 00:32:09,676 --> 00:32:12,956 Speaker 1: has it changed your songwriting? You tend to do more acoustic, 596 00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:16,516 Speaker 1: more intimate stuff. I mean, I think that when we 597 00:32:16,596 --> 00:32:19,036 Speaker 1: came back and made Thrashing through the Passion and those 598 00:32:19,036 --> 00:32:21,316 Speaker 1: songs that went into that, I think it very much 599 00:32:21,356 --> 00:32:24,996 Speaker 1: affected me in the sense that I was very excited 600 00:32:25,076 --> 00:32:28,436 Speaker 1: to kind of yell and be boisterous and be in 601 00:32:28,476 --> 00:32:30,956 Speaker 1: the whole a loud rock band again. And so you 602 00:32:30,996 --> 00:32:33,436 Speaker 1: know that in that sense, you're flexing both the muscles. 603 00:32:33,556 --> 00:32:36,516 Speaker 1: You know, it's like arms day and legs day. You know, 604 00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 1: you're you're excited to get back to arms day. I 605 00:32:39,956 --> 00:32:42,476 Speaker 1: think one thing that happened with the solo records is 606 00:32:42,516 --> 00:32:45,116 Speaker 1: it starting with Faith in the Future, which was in 607 00:32:45,196 --> 00:32:48,276 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, is it allowed me to kind of dial 608 00:32:48,356 --> 00:32:53,796 Speaker 1: in or really kind of focus on something more maybe empathetic. 609 00:32:54,116 --> 00:32:57,716 Speaker 1: That was definitely turned up in the solo records and 610 00:32:57,916 --> 00:33:01,076 Speaker 1: maybe continues on in the Whole Steady and in this 611 00:33:01,676 --> 00:33:03,556 Speaker 1: sort of version of the Whole Steady, which I kind 612 00:33:03,596 --> 00:33:06,996 Speaker 1: of call him three point Now. I think the last 613 00:33:06,996 --> 00:33:09,396 Speaker 1: two records have maybe included some of them or the 614 00:33:09,436 --> 00:33:12,716 Speaker 1: empathy that I was exploring in the solo records. But 615 00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:16,836 Speaker 1: I also think just anytime you are thrusting yourself into 616 00:33:17,036 --> 00:33:21,676 Speaker 1: situations that you have some amount of discomfort, new musicians, whatever, 617 00:33:21,876 --> 00:33:23,876 Speaker 1: you're going to grow. And I think I'm aware of 618 00:33:23,916 --> 00:33:25,556 Speaker 1: some of the ways I've grown, but I think I've 619 00:33:25,556 --> 00:33:27,996 Speaker 1: probably grown in other ways that I'm not aware of, 620 00:33:28,076 --> 00:33:31,556 Speaker 1: just by trying new things and scaring myself a little bit. 621 00:33:32,276 --> 00:33:35,316 Speaker 1: Where does the empathy come from? You know? At that 622 00:33:35,476 --> 00:33:38,916 Speaker 1: point in twenty fifteen, I think one of the things 623 00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:42,156 Speaker 1: happened my mother passed away, and I remember talking to 624 00:33:42,196 --> 00:33:44,916 Speaker 1: a friend who said who had gone through a similar 625 00:33:44,956 --> 00:33:47,196 Speaker 1: thing as mom, also died from cancer. And he was 626 00:33:47,236 --> 00:33:50,036 Speaker 1: talking about how after that, when he got in situations 627 00:33:50,036 --> 00:33:52,276 Speaker 1: that it would previously annoyed him, you know, like a 628 00:33:52,276 --> 00:33:56,716 Speaker 1: crowded train or something like that, he felt empathy rather 629 00:33:56,756 --> 00:33:59,236 Speaker 1: than annoyance. Like he looked at and said, well, look cold, 630 00:33:59,276 --> 00:34:01,756 Speaker 1: all these people suffer all these people will suffer. They 631 00:34:01,756 --> 00:34:04,796 Speaker 1: all have their own things going on. And I guess 632 00:34:04,796 --> 00:34:07,396 Speaker 1: I really understood what he meant. And I think some 633 00:34:07,436 --> 00:34:10,876 Speaker 1: people will find that from having kids. I don't have 634 00:34:10,876 --> 00:34:13,836 Speaker 1: any kids, so but I think that there was in 635 00:34:13,876 --> 00:34:16,996 Speaker 1: that experience something that put me in touch with something 636 00:34:17,236 --> 00:34:21,916 Speaker 1: you know, more human and you know, more understanding of everyone. 637 00:34:22,556 --> 00:34:28,596 Speaker 1: M you seem very sympathetic of your characters on this album. Yeah, 638 00:34:28,636 --> 00:34:30,836 Speaker 1: I mean I think that. I guess maybe the older 639 00:34:30,876 --> 00:34:34,436 Speaker 1: I get, the more people I know that I draw 640 00:34:34,556 --> 00:34:37,596 Speaker 1: on where people haven't you know, have either slipped away 641 00:34:37,756 --> 00:34:42,036 Speaker 1: or things haven't worked out for them exactly how they intended. Obviously, 642 00:34:42,076 --> 00:34:45,756 Speaker 1: there's uh decisions and all that, but there's also, you know, 643 00:34:45,796 --> 00:34:50,636 Speaker 1: some amount of luck, I believe, and so I am 644 00:34:50,756 --> 00:34:54,516 Speaker 1: I look at I look with some with love, and 645 00:34:55,316 --> 00:34:57,516 Speaker 1: I want the love that I have for these people 646 00:34:57,516 --> 00:34:59,756 Speaker 1: to come through in some way. It does remind me 647 00:34:59,796 --> 00:35:05,036 Speaker 1: a little of Springsteen's latest album, where he talks about 648 00:35:05,076 --> 00:35:07,556 Speaker 1: all the people in his original band have died that 649 00:35:07,636 --> 00:35:10,556 Speaker 1: he's the last one left, and what a strange thing 650 00:35:10,596 --> 00:35:13,036 Speaker 1: that is. You know, you've worked with a lot of musicians. 651 00:35:13,196 --> 00:35:16,356 Speaker 1: Does it surprise you that you're still going and probably 652 00:35:16,396 --> 00:35:18,516 Speaker 1: a lot of those people aren't going not as musicians 653 00:35:18,556 --> 00:35:22,836 Speaker 1: at least. Yeah, I mean I think that there's I mean, 654 00:35:22,876 --> 00:35:27,436 Speaker 1: there's certain things that have served me well. I mean 655 00:35:27,476 --> 00:35:31,196 Speaker 1: in some ways, like you know, organization and you know, 656 00:35:31,396 --> 00:35:34,836 Speaker 1: work ethic are helpful and you know, I want to 657 00:35:35,076 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 1: communicate clearly with people. I think those are things that 658 00:35:37,956 --> 00:35:42,476 Speaker 1: are kind of underrated and don't always naturally exist with musicians. 659 00:35:42,476 --> 00:35:45,076 Speaker 1: To be honest, I think that you do look back 660 00:35:45,116 --> 00:35:46,996 Speaker 1: at this age and say, wow, you know there's people 661 00:35:47,036 --> 00:35:48,876 Speaker 1: who have left your life. And I mean even in 662 00:35:48,916 --> 00:35:52,396 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, some because of COVID, some because not. At 663 00:35:52,436 --> 00:35:54,636 Speaker 1: the end of the year, I made a list and 664 00:35:54,676 --> 00:35:58,196 Speaker 1: I knew twenty people who die and some were like 665 00:35:58,436 --> 00:36:01,516 Speaker 1: you know, friends, parents, But that's a big list, and 666 00:36:02,316 --> 00:36:05,716 Speaker 1: it struck me that probably as you get older at 667 00:36:05,716 --> 00:36:08,756 Speaker 1: that list gross right or I mean, this was a 668 00:36:08,756 --> 00:36:11,156 Speaker 1: strange year, but that list is unlikely to get too 669 00:36:11,236 --> 00:36:15,956 Speaker 1: much smaller going forward. So what is next for you 670 00:36:16,076 --> 00:36:19,156 Speaker 1: and the band? You've always been a very hard working 671 00:36:19,156 --> 00:36:23,556 Speaker 1: touring band. I hope that when shows come back and 672 00:36:23,596 --> 00:36:26,596 Speaker 1: are safe for people to attend, we will be playing them. 673 00:36:26,756 --> 00:36:28,756 Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's it's a lot of 674 00:36:28,756 --> 00:36:30,556 Speaker 1: weight and see just like the rest of the world, 675 00:36:30,556 --> 00:36:33,556 Speaker 1: and we're going to do our best and again to 676 00:36:33,636 --> 00:36:37,236 Speaker 1: bring technology into it. Luckily, we are able in some 677 00:36:37,276 --> 00:36:42,356 Speaker 1: ways able to interface and understand the reaction to the 678 00:36:42,396 --> 00:36:44,516 Speaker 1: record that we just put out. That's seems like a 679 00:36:44,636 --> 00:36:47,836 Speaker 1: very special record internally to us. So people seem to 680 00:36:47,836 --> 00:36:51,236 Speaker 1: really like it, and that's that's very gratifying. Okay, well, 681 00:36:51,556 --> 00:36:54,396 Speaker 1: thank you so much. This has been just wonderful. Oh, 682 00:36:54,396 --> 00:36:59,596 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Thanks to Craig Finn for 683 00:36:59,636 --> 00:37:03,076 Speaker 1: breaking down his songwriting process for us to hear. Open 684 00:37:03,076 --> 00:37:05,836 Speaker 1: door policy and our favorite hold steady tracks had to 685 00:37:05,916 --> 00:37:09,396 Speaker 1: Broken Record podcast that you should have. Subscribe to our 686 00:37:09,396 --> 00:37:12,556 Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcasts, 687 00:37:13,036 --> 00:37:15,716 Speaker 1: where we can find all of our new episodes. You 688 00:37:15,756 --> 00:37:19,236 Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter apt Broken Record. Broken Record 689 00:37:19,316 --> 00:37:23,116 Speaker 1: is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Cartin Gonzalez, 690 00:37:23,356 --> 00:37:27,116 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineer and help from 691 00:37:27,196 --> 00:37:31,076 Speaker 1: Nick Chafee. Our executive producer is Meal of That. If 692 00:37:31,076 --> 00:37:33,916 Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin Industries, consider 693 00:37:33,996 --> 00:37:37,076 Speaker 1: becoming a push Nick. Pushnick is a podcast subscription that 694 00:37:37,156 --> 00:37:40,596 Speaker 1: offers bonus content and uninterrupted listening for four ninety nine 695 00:37:40,596 --> 00:37:44,636 Speaker 1: a month. Look for Pushnick exclusively on Apple podcast subscriptions. 696 00:37:44,956 --> 00:37:47,836 Speaker 1: Broken Record is production of Pushing Industries. Our theme musics 697 00:37:47,836 --> 00:37:49,836 Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.