WEBVTT - Jonestown

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<v Speaker 1>If you're going to Send Francisco or Seattle, you should

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<v Speaker 1>come to our live shows.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, well done, Chuck. We are still selling tickets

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<v Speaker 2>to our live shows on January twenty fourth and twenty

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<v Speaker 2>six On January twenty fourth in Seattle at the Paramount

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<v Speaker 2>Theater and on January twenty sixth in San Francisco at

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<v Speaker 2>Sydney Goldstein Theater. Tickets are still available to come see us.

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<v Speaker 2>Hats off to Portland for selling out our show at

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<v Speaker 2>Revolution Hall already, and sorry to everybody who got shut out.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So where can they get tickets at our website?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff? Youshould do dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah or linktree slash sysk.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll see everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Then.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Jerry's here too. The Three Amigos, the TWA Musketeers,

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<v Speaker 2>the Trace Lay Chase, all that back together again in

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<v Speaker 2>a brand new year four.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right in our time. This is our first recording

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<v Speaker 3>after our increasingly long Christmas break, which is just wonderful.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like Jerry sucked us in that first

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<v Speaker 2>week quite a bit. It was like a quasi work

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<v Speaker 2>week that we weren't supposed to have, which I'm still

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<v Speaker 2>a little mad about.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but not recording. So it's a nice long break.

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<v Speaker 3>But I always feel like we have to kick or

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<v Speaker 3>at least I have to kick the rust off a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. I think we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>do great though, because it doesn't feel rusty. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be rusty, but it didn't feel like we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh can I say a quick thing too, Yeah, this

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<v Speaker 3>is something that it didn't occur to me until we

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<v Speaker 3>were on the break. Like we always like to thank

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<v Speaker 3>people around the holidays for support and stuff, but I

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<v Speaker 3>think we should specifically thank people who operate as our

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<v Speaker 3>back getters and our quasi quality control people because all

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<v Speaker 3>the time where we get letters from people that say

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<v Speaker 3>like or emails that say, like, hey, you misspelled this

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<v Speaker 3>word in the podcast release, but this one came out twice,

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<v Speaker 3>or this ad is really offensive, so maybe you guys

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<v Speaker 3>want to double check that, right, that kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 3>Like it just feels good. People are always really kind

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<v Speaker 3>and alert us to things that we should be paying

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<v Speaker 3>attention to because sometimes things slip through, and I just

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<v Speaker 3>want to say thanks for everyone looking out for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Man, when did that occur to you? How long have

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<v Speaker 2>you been hanging on to that one? Not?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean it was over the break when I think

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<v Speaker 3>we got a couple of things about either an ad

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<v Speaker 3>or something, and I was like, you know what, we

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<v Speaker 3>should thank people for getting our back and letting us

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<v Speaker 3>alerting us to stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's what triggered at some emails. You didn't just

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<v Speaker 2>like sit bowl up right in the middle of the

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<v Speaker 2>nine I think, oh god, no, well that was nice.

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<v Speaker 2>If you check. Yeah, we'll start adopting that at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the year the holidays or something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>How about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Nope, that's the only time we'll ever do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, cool, I'm fine with that too. So we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking today about something I've been avoiding for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>I started to look into this and start researching it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was going to suggest it a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, and I was like, this is one of

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<v Speaker 2>the bleakest things that's ever happened outside of war in history.

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<v Speaker 2>It's up there for sure, and it really sucks you

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<v Speaker 2>in in the grimmest possible way when you have to

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<v Speaker 2>like really dive into research because we're talking about Jonestown,

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<v Speaker 2>and for anybody who's even everyone is at least passingly

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with the word Jonestown, the name Jonestown. Yeah, or

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<v Speaker 2>you might have heard, you know, the phrase drinking the

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<v Speaker 2>kool aid, like you've really bought into something. You might

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<v Speaker 2>even be brainwashed that came out of Jonestown, true or not.

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<v Speaker 2>And when you talk about it though, it's not something

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<v Speaker 2>you can talk about flip Ley, it's not something you

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<v Speaker 2>can just kind of breeze through, Like you really have

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<v Speaker 2>to get in there and understand what the heck was

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<v Speaker 2>going on because it's such a bizarre, horrible event. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that it just really kind of sucks you in, and

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<v Speaker 2>when you get in there, it really it's grim. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a grim. It was a grim research event for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean it's so grim that a band named themselves

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<v Speaker 3>after it with a pithy pun attached.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of the great band names of all time,

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<v Speaker 2>Brian jonesown Massacre Out.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you think that is?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, I think it's a great I.

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<v Speaker 1>Have a hard time with pun band names, especially the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of beginning middle end ones.

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<v Speaker 2>Like Kathleen Turner Overdrive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm with you. I'm with you on the Kathleen Turner Overdrive.

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<v Speaker 2>It's clever, but it's one of those ones you hear

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<v Speaker 2>once and you're like, that's funny. I think the difference

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<v Speaker 2>between those two bands, though, is the Brian jonesown Massacre

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<v Speaker 2>act actually like hardcore musicians. Yeah, that have like a

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<v Speaker 2>bleak enough outlook that they could take that that name

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not just a like an elbow U in

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<v Speaker 2>the ribs kind of joke.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and Brian Jones like another classic musician, whereas Kathleen Turner.

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<v Speaker 3>I love Kathleen Turner, but I don't know, it just

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<v Speaker 3>seemed a little extra pick.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't even play the spoons.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you kidding, She's a great spooner.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only did Brian Jones saw Massacre name themselves that,

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<v Speaker 2>they also have a song called the Ballad of Jim Jones.

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<v Speaker 2>If you heard that, Oh no, it's it's they got harmonica.

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<v Speaker 2>It's real kind of Bob dillany interesting. Uh, Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>really something. It's something to go check out. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if everybody's gonna like them, yeah, but some people

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<v Speaker 2>probably won't.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we should also point out this is a

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<v Speaker 3>you know, this is the stuff you should know, forty

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<v Speaker 3>five ish minute overview, like this could be way way

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<v Speaker 3>longer and multi episodes long if we really got into

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<v Speaker 3>all the sort of ups and downs of Jim Jones

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<v Speaker 3>through his odd life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a good idea. I wonder if anyone's ever

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<v Speaker 2>done a multi part of podcast time.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I thought you were a big serious.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, totally, I mean yeah, but I'm glad you

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<v Speaker 2>said that because it is true, Like, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>a lot about this and we'll try to get everything

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<v Speaker 2>we talk about right though.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, that's right, And thanks to the grabster for the

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<v Speaker 1>help on this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, way to go, Grabster. And we should

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<v Speaker 2>probably say just a I don't even know if we

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<v Speaker 2>need to give an overview of what happened, We could

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<v Speaker 2>probably just jump in and start and talk about Jim Jones,

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<v Speaker 2>the guy at the center of this whole thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Well, I think people get mad when we do that,

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<v Speaker 3>assuming that people know. Okay, so maybe just the quickest

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<v Speaker 3>of spoilers is that on November eighteenth, nineteen seventy eight,

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<v Speaker 3>more than nine hundred people died in Guyana at the

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<v Speaker 3>hands of a sadistic cult leader named Jim Jones.

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<v Speaker 1>And now we can start right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the big twist to all that is he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>personally kill them physically, he used his power to get

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<v Speaker 2>them to kill themselves. It's as weird and twisted as that.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jim Jones is the kind of person, or he

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<v Speaker 2>was the kind of person who could actually make something

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<v Speaker 2>like that happen. He was a very very rare individual.

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen him diagnosed retroactively as psychopathic, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>think his personality disorders got a little more nuanced. I've

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<v Speaker 2>seen much more recently that he was a malignant narcissist.

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<v Speaker 2>There was something wrong with that guy. Something was wrong

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<v Speaker 2>with Jim Jones from start to finish, but it seems

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<v Speaker 2>to have gotten way way worse over time. But one

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<v Speaker 2>thing that he showed a real penchant for early on

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<v Speaker 2>in life was preaching, not religion. He was not, it

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<v Speaker 2>turns out, a religious person. He doesn't seem to have

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<v Speaker 2>believed in much of any of the stuff he was preaching,

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<v Speaker 2>but preaching was his way of like funneling attention, adoration,

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<v Speaker 2>money important to himself. He figured out very early.

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<v Speaker 3>On Yeah, he was on record that he was not

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<v Speaker 3>so into religion, even though he was tied to various

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<v Speaker 3>churches over the years, including the one he started, the

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<v Speaker 3>People's Temple, which we'll talk about in greater detail later.

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<v Speaker 3>But one thing he was which is I didn't know

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<v Speaker 3>a ton about the guy, sort of pre jonestown, and

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<v Speaker 3>I was surprised to learn that he was a sort

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<v Speaker 3>of a socialist slash communist, anti segregationist who actually did

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of you know, I hate to characterize it

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<v Speaker 3>as good work, but it was good work because it's

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's hard. He was such an awful human,

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<v Speaker 3>but he led a lot of deep segregated his causes

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<v Speaker 3>in Indiana very successfully for a number of years.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw someone on Reddit say that had he died

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<v Speaker 2>on the way to California, we would remember him today

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<v Speaker 2>as one of the early civil rights leaders.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that's true.

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<v Speaker 2>It is true, And I get what you're saying, your

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<v Speaker 2>reticence to like praise him in any way, shape or form,

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, he definitely did walk the walk, like he

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<v Speaker 2>fought for integration at a time when white people were

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<v Speaker 2>not doing that. Jim Jones was white, we should say,

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<v Speaker 2>but he mostly learned that he was best preaching generally

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<v Speaker 2>toward black congregants mm hmm. And that that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>just drove his desire to to integrate even further, so

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<v Speaker 2>much so that as he got a little more power,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the first things he did was become the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of the civil rights zar for Indianapolis. And he

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<v Speaker 2>actually it wasn't like just a label that he went

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<v Speaker 2>around and introduced himself as he went to work and

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<v Speaker 2>started integrating places in like penalizing places that hadn't integrated

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<v Speaker 2>yet in Indianapolis.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely, Initially he was. He was involved with the

0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.439
<v Speaker 3>Methodist Church. He was involved with them, even though they

0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:21.280
<v Speaker 3>were not necessarily anti segregationists did not necessarily want their

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<v Speaker 3>congregations to be of mixed race, but they were apparently

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<v Speaker 3>supportive of his sort of socialist communist leanings. And this

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<v Speaker 3>was in the very early nineteen fifties. And we should

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<v Speaker 3>point out he was married by this point. He got

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<v Speaker 3>married in nineteen forty nine to a woman named Marceline Baldwin,

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<v Speaker 3>who was a hospital orderly and love bomber apparently, and

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<v Speaker 3>a couple of years later they moved to Indianapolis, where

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<v Speaker 3>that's when he got involved with a Methodist and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>started sort of spreading his anti segregationist word.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So after I don't know what happened with the Methodist,

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<v Speaker 2>but eventually they got sick of him and pushed him

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<v Speaker 2>out of the church, and he moved over to evangelicalism. Yeah,

0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.720
<v Speaker 2>what he called apostolic socialism. Because one of the things

0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.040
<v Speaker 2>about him, not only did he figure out that preaching

0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.120
<v Speaker 2>was a way to like attract people, he figured out

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<v Speaker 2>that that religion was a way, it was like a

0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:30.080
<v Speaker 2>trojan horse to get people to start thinking about socialism, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's so many like parallels between you know, ideal

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<v Speaker 2>socialism and Christian teaching. Ideal Christian teaching, I should say that,

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<v Speaker 2>like it's it's pretty easy to get people who are

0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:49.480
<v Speaker 2>already predisposed toward following Jesus and his Christian teachings to

0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.120
<v Speaker 2>start thinking about taking care of your you know, fellow

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<v Speaker 2>downtrodden humans too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 3>And he would eventually get involved in like you were

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<v Speaker 3>talking about, the evangelicism.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that the word evangelicism, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And he would fall into fall into the camp of

0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.400
<v Speaker 3>the Pentecostals, and even more so that was a group

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<v Speaker 3>of I just call it, I guess Pentecostal Plus, which

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 3>was the Latter Rain movement, and that was like they off,

0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 3>they spun it off from the Pentecostal Church because they

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<v Speaker 3>were even more sort of out there than the Pentecostals

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:35.040
<v Speaker 3>were as far as like, hey, we get prophecies directly

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 3>from God. Some of us have supernatural powers. They would

0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 3>use sort of sometimes good old fashioned traveling show vaudeville

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:49.600
<v Speaker 3>medicine man style stage magic to you know, look like

0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:51.920
<v Speaker 3>they knew what they were talking about, and it was

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 3>pretty out there. But he found that that was a

0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:59.760
<v Speaker 3>pretty good audience for himself. And what he called I

0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 3>mean he basically said, you know, through the manifested Sons

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.120
<v Speaker 3>of God, which is a doctrine in the Latterine movement, like, hey,

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.080
<v Speaker 3>God picks out certain special people that he gives like

0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 3>basically the powers of Jesus Christ, and I'm one of them.

0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, this group of elites will prepare the world

0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 2>at end times for Jesus's return and they are essentially

0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Jesus just divided up into different human forms. And Jim

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Jones is like, I'm one of those guys too, check

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.839
<v Speaker 2>me out. So that was like a weird, a weird

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>way to go, but it was also sensible if you

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>look at him from the lens of strictly a huckster

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.560
<v Speaker 2>who was taking advantage of people. Of course he's going

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.480
<v Speaker 2>to go into like I'm Jesus by the way, It's

0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 2>just it's just such a lazy way to take advantage

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:43.080
<v Speaker 2>of people.

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, like he was able to do that

0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 3>because like most cult leaders, he was very charismatic. He

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.559
<v Speaker 3>was also a strange person. Ed dug up this one

0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.080
<v Speaker 3>story that I had never heard that at one point

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 3>in his life he was like, you know what, I'm

0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 3>not gonna take place in a conversation with anyone unless

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.600
<v Speaker 3>I initiated. So literally, people would come up and address

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.599
<v Speaker 3>him and talk to him and he just wouldn't answer back.

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if they were really persistent, to be like, I

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:10.600
<v Speaker 2>can't hear you.

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.200
<v Speaker 3>It's a very strange thing, but just sort of an

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.120
<v Speaker 3>example of what an odd duck he was. A lot

0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 3>of people did find him sort of creepy and off putting,

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.360
<v Speaker 3>but he did have that charisma. You don't get cult

0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 3>followers unless you're a charismatic dude, and he was that.

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 3>He you know, he had that jet black hair and sideburns.

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 3>He had a sort of elvas sea look. Yeah, we'll

0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 3>put yep, which, by the way, is still a thing.

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 3>I went to Memphis, which is, you know, where my

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 3>mom grew up and where I used to go as

0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 3>a child with my mom and Emily and Ruby, and

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.960
<v Speaker 3>there are still those dudes walking around Memphis that are

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 3>like in their seventies now and have these big sideburns

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 3>and pompadors, like these sort of Memphis Mafia looking guys. Yeah,

0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 3>it's really interesting. I was like, oh, wow, of course

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 3>Memphis still has those guys, for sure.

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Where else are they going to go? What else are

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 2>they going to do? Nothing? That's what they do. That's

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 2>what you can do in Memphis.

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, anyway, he was one of those guys you know,

0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 1>later in life he was very well known for wearing

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.040
<v Speaker 1>those steel rim sort of squarish I guess there were

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:20.880
<v Speaker 1>sunglasses or were they also reading glasses.

0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I think they were like early transitions lenses. It looks

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.760
<v Speaker 2>like almost they were just constantly in the in between state.

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, listen, we could debate Jim Jones's eye diagnosis all

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:37.160
<v Speaker 3>day long.

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm guessing they were reading glasses. Because I've read an

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.120
<v Speaker 2>account of him looking over them at in the room,

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.840
<v Speaker 2>so it probably was reading glasses.

0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Which is also an intimidating move, I think for sure.

0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 2>I get also the impression that he was wearing those

0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of in between sunglasses, because at some point in

0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>the sixties he started taking drugs. Maybe even earlier than that,

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>but definitely by the sixties he was taking speed and

0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 2>then later on like sedatives and co eludes and stuff,

0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 2>and as the seventies started to wear on, he was

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 2>really getting into those. So he probably needed those glasses

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:15.560
<v Speaker 2>on some days so that you couldn't see what his

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.000
<v Speaker 2>eyes looked like in the middle of the afternoon.

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>You know, there's a lot of elvis in this story.

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Actually, yeah, for sure.

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Should we take a break?

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 2>For sure?

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>All right, We'll be right back, everybody, all right.

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 3>So Jim Jones has been sort of involved in several

0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 3>different denominations and churches, worn out as welcome in most

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 3>of them, and eventually is like, you know what, I'm

0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.560
<v Speaker 3>going to start my own church, which is step one

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 3>if you're gonna form a cult. Actually that's not true.

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 3>There are plenty of cults without churches, but that was

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.680
<v Speaker 3>his route and so he started the People's Temple in

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.960
<v Speaker 3>nineteen fifty five and was really successful with it. He had,

0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, no trouble recruiting members, and by the early

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 3>nineteen sixties he was so popular and he had such

0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 3>a following that he was able to continue his work

0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.120
<v Speaker 3>desegregating businesses and you know other you know, this wasn't

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.000
<v Speaker 3>like a national movement. He kind of was one of

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.359
<v Speaker 3>those think local guys. M And like you mentioned earlier,

0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.360
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen sixty, the mayor of Indianapolis said, all right,

0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:49.760
<v Speaker 3>you're the director of our Human Rights Commission, right, And like.

0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I said, he took that and ran with it and

0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>started to really kind of rack up more and more interest.

0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not exactly clear on some of the document.

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.399
<v Speaker 2>And you see about like his rise to power and influence.

0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.080
<v Speaker 2>The early stuff takes places in like a traditional church.

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.320
<v Speaker 2>It looks like a church. You can tell it's a church.

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 2>It's just you know, what do they call it. I

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 2>guess charismatic churches where people are like dancing and everything

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.400
<v Speaker 2>and clapping and he's healing people. I'm not sure at

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.119
<v Speaker 2>what point it started. It could have been Indianapolis, it

0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.119
<v Speaker 2>probably was, but he started to just say more and

0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.919
<v Speaker 2>more like bizarre stuff over time. And one of the

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.000
<v Speaker 2>first bizarre things that he said that had a really

0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.479
<v Speaker 2>big impact on the history of the People's Temple was

0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.480
<v Speaker 2>that there was going to be a thermonuclear war on

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>July fifteenth, nineteen sixty seven. The bombs were going to drop,

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I think, is how he put it. And he apparently

0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.639
<v Speaker 2>got the six and the seven transposed, because what he

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.199
<v Speaker 2>meant was July fifteenth, nineteen seventy six, the bomb was

0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.199
<v Speaker 2>going to drop. But he convinced his congregation, or a

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.639
<v Speaker 2>lot of his congregation I think at least a hundred

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:06.360
<v Speaker 2>families from Indianapolis to move to rural north northern California

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.800
<v Speaker 2>to basically set up a safe haven, a little kind

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:14.400
<v Speaker 2>of commune for the People's Temple. It was a It

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:21.320
<v Speaker 2>was his first really truly big show of power over

0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>other people's lives because just take just think about it

0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 2>for a second. You go to church, right and you

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 2>go and you like listen to the sermon and everything,

0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 2>and you have probably like some friends at church or whatever,

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.159
<v Speaker 2>and then you come home and church is done for

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.200
<v Speaker 2>the week. For a lot of people, maybe you go

0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:43.520
<v Speaker 2>one other day. That's about it. Imagine being so into

0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 2>church that you move your family across the country because

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 2>your preacher is telling you there's going to be a

0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 2>thermonuclear war and we all need to go to northern California.

0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:59.679
<v Speaker 2>That takes a real level of like intuitness that from congregants,

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.439
<v Speaker 2>And it was a real show of like faith in

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.680
<v Speaker 2>a test of faith for people, and he was very

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.040
<v Speaker 2>successful with it. And I think that did nothing but

0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:07.440
<v Speaker 2>just embolden him further.

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:08.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.400
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And by this time we should point out too

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.840
<v Speaker 3>that he had started quite a large family with Marceline

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 3>at her suggestion, and apparently he was super into it

0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 3>as well. She wanted to have a rainbow family, so

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.959
<v Speaker 3>they adopted quite a few kids of all different you know,

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.560
<v Speaker 3>nationalities and ethnicities. They had one Native American child, they

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:36.120
<v Speaker 3>adopted several Korean kids, a black child. I believe one

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:40.200
<v Speaker 3>of his adopted daughters was killed by a drunk driver

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 3>in fifty nine, and then they adopted her younger sister,

0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.080
<v Speaker 3>which you know, is pretty amazing. And then they also

0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:52.480
<v Speaker 3>had their sole biological child in nineteen fifty nine, Stephan

0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 3>Gandhi Jones, who you would if you look him up,

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.560
<v Speaker 3>you will see lots of he's very active in his

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, I was about to say his father's legacy today,

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.199
<v Speaker 3>but you know, not obviously supporting his dad's legacy. But

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.119
<v Speaker 3>like he you know, during the twenty eighteen commemoration of

0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.159
<v Speaker 3>the Jonestown massacre, I guess, is it a massacre or

0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 3>just massive deaths?

0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 1>What would you even call that?

0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.479
<v Speaker 2>It just depends on your perspective, But yeah, I think

0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.520
<v Speaker 2>you could get away calling it a massacre for sure.

0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.959
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but he led that ceremony and also acknowledged that,

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:31.199
<v Speaker 3>you know, hey, listen, it's a can of worms that

0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm doing this to begin with, and people have things

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 3>to say about me or don't agree with certain things

0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 3>I say, then like let's please have that conversation.

0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:42.280
<v Speaker 1>But he's he's pretty vocal and public to this day.

0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he wasn't just a kid at the time, like

0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 2>toward the end of the People's Temple, he was the

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.960
<v Speaker 2>head of the security force. Yeah, at the time when

0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 2>they were in Guyana, which we'll talk about soon. Yeah,

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.920
<v Speaker 2>he's in a really strange way, very brave for like

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.800
<v Speaker 2>showing his face in public as you know who he is.

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, another interesting thing happened that's pretty key to the

0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 3>story before he said, hey, everybody, let's move to California.

0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 3>He moved his just his family to Rio dationan Aire,

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:18.439
<v Speaker 3>Brazil because of this supposed impending nuclear disaster. And on

0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 3>the way there, he stopped in a country in South

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:24.879
<v Speaker 3>America called Guyana and just got a little taste of

0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.280
<v Speaker 3>what life was like there, and that definitely planted a seed.

0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 3>So he's, I believe, in nineteen sixty four he's planning

0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.159
<v Speaker 3>this move a couple of hours north of San Francisco

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 3>to Yukia, California, and at that point he has already

0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.680
<v Speaker 3>at least visited and preached in Guyana.

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.879
<v Speaker 2>Right, that's a great setup. So when he gets to Brazil,

0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.800
<v Speaker 2>he's basically like left and taken his family, like you said,

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>to get away from thermon nuclear war. But he's been like,

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 2>but you guys, you know, you stay back here and

0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:00.360
<v Speaker 2>keep the keep the temple going. Yeah, And apparently there

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.560
<v Speaker 2>was no one there with his strength or charisma, because

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.639
<v Speaker 2>the temple fell apart almost immediately, or it started to

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.479
<v Speaker 2>it threatened to. So just after even a couple of months,

0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 2>he had to go back and like get everything back

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:17.320
<v Speaker 2>in line and back in order, and ended up staying there,

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.639
<v Speaker 2>staying in California again for a while, I don't, I

0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:23.960
<v Speaker 2>guess for several more years, I think. Do you remember

0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.160
<v Speaker 2>when it was he moved to Brazil at first.

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:29.879
<v Speaker 1>He moved to Brazil in nineteen sixty three.

0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, so yeah, he came back. He came back

0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:35.200
<v Speaker 2>to Indianapolis, I guess is what it was. This would

0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:36.400
<v Speaker 2>have been pre California.

0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And in California he found, you know, obviously northern California.

0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:44.480
<v Speaker 3>He would find in the nineteen sixties quite a few

0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 3>people in that area that were into his message of socialism,

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 3>pretty ripe for recruiting. And he would eventually move into

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:56.159
<v Speaker 3>San Francisco itself and did pretty well there, like so

0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:58.919
<v Speaker 3>well that he had a lot of followers who had

0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 3>a lot of and had a lot of way or them.

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.040
<v Speaker 3>So local politicians started saying, hey, we need to get

0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 3>in line with this guy because he has a lot

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.240
<v Speaker 3>of influence at the voting booth. Like Harvey Milk and

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:14.080
<v Speaker 3>Mayor George Moscone were you know, like actively courting him.

0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:16.480
<v Speaker 3>I think they named him, or at least the mayor

0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.400
<v Speaker 3>named him chairman of the San Francisco's Housing Authority Commission.

0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because he he basically took credit for Moscone's win

0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:31.960
<v Speaker 2>as mayor. He barely eked out a victory, and Jim

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Jones had delivered several hundred, if not a couple thousand

0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:38.800
<v Speaker 2>votes toward toward Moscone, and he said, you owe me.

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 2>And he became the public housing director or a member

0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 2>of the board, and apparently just to kind of show

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.520
<v Speaker 2>his his influence in his cloud and how great he

0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:54.520
<v Speaker 2>was at those housing meetings, his followers would come, members

0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:57.399
<v Speaker 2>of the People's Temple would come and cheer him on

0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and clap an applaud sometimes give him a standing over

0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:02.679
<v Speaker 2>a when he would give a little speech about public

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:07.440
<v Speaker 2>housing or something like that. Was really weird. But by

0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:11.679
<v Speaker 2>this time in San Francisco, late sixties, early seventies, like

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:13.680
<v Speaker 2>people like that were a diamond dozen.

0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:19.040
<v Speaker 2>He was politically connected to people who are like this guy,

0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 2>like you said, he can deliver the goods. Yeah, yeah,

0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 2>so much so that whenever there was like unfavorable press

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:27.720
<v Speaker 2>about him, and we'll talk about some of the stuff

0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 2>they were writing about him in a second, he could

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.080
<v Speaker 2>actually get it stifled. He had the connections to be like,

0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 2>this article's going to come out on me, can you

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 2>make sure it doesn't come out, so he could stifle

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:43.800
<v Speaker 2>like dissent and oppress any outsiders who were criticizing him.

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:46.879
<v Speaker 2>So he was very powerful in San Francisco, and that

0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:49.200
<v Speaker 2>was actually the reason he moved everybody to San Francisco.

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:53.240
<v Speaker 2>They went Indianapolis, to Yukaya, California, and northern California. He

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:55.639
<v Speaker 2>figured out that was like Hicksville, USA, and he couldn't

0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.480
<v Speaker 2>actually develop any real power down there, so he moved

0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.879
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing to San Francisco, set up the People's

0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Temple in San Francisco, and essentially had what was a

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Pentecostal black congregation that so emphasized civil rights that they

0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:20.600
<v Speaker 2>were just also bringing in tons of liberal, younger, middle

0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.159
<v Speaker 2>class white people too who wanted to support that cause,

0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:26.399
<v Speaker 2>who might have never been in a Pentecostal service in

0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:28.119
<v Speaker 2>their life, and now all of a sudden, they're like

0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:31.120
<v Speaker 2>singing and clapping and dancing. So he had all these

0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:33.720
<v Speaker 2>different streams of people that he was just bringing in,

0:26:34.040 --> 0:26:39.280
<v Speaker 2>bringing in, and eventually trapping in his church, the People's Temple.

0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's like, I love the grateful dead, but I've

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 3>never handled a rattlesnake. This is amazing exactly so things

0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.760
<v Speaker 3>are also you know, as this is going along, things

0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 3>are just becoming more and more culty. It was sort

0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:56.960
<v Speaker 3>of a slow burn toward you know, fully fledged cult.

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:00.560
<v Speaker 1>But by this time he was, you know, right out

0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:01.160
<v Speaker 1>of the playbook.

0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:01.480
<v Speaker 2>He was.

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:03.680
<v Speaker 3>And we have a you know a lot of cult

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:08.560
<v Speaker 3>content in our history, one on cults, one on deprogramming.

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:11.320
<v Speaker 1>I think we cover some other cults as well.

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, specifically have surely, but I into mind.

0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 3>I mean Manson of course. Oh, but he is right

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:23.120
<v Speaker 3>out of the cult leader playbook. He's starting to isolate

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:27.399
<v Speaker 3>members from friends and family. He's starting to say, you know,

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.360
<v Speaker 3>when you join my church, you got to turn over

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 3>all your possessions to us. They ended up having a

0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of money. I saw one point towards the end

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:36.960
<v Speaker 3>they had like eleven million bucks in a bank account.

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:39.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's like nineteen seventy eight money.

0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:40.600
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, totally.

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 3>And he started, you know, doing that thing where you're saying,

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:46.120
<v Speaker 3>you know, outside people are going to want to pull

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:47.960
<v Speaker 3>you out of here, they're going to want you to defect.

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Your family might even he would spread lies about them.

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 3>He would say he's getting prophecies that if you disobeyed

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:57.639
<v Speaker 3>and tried to defect, then you would suffer some kind

0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:00.600
<v Speaker 3>of tragedy. So things are getting more and more and

0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:05.640
<v Speaker 3>that's when, like you said, he started getting some press coverage,

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.400
<v Speaker 3>which I mean, what's really like one of the most

0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 3>astounding things about all this is so many cults you

0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:14.400
<v Speaker 3>hear about after the fact, but this was actively going

0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:17.680
<v Speaker 3>on and being reported on by the press like while

0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:18.400
<v Speaker 3>it was happening.

0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because he was getting like wild and bizarre and

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.680
<v Speaker 2>abusive enough toward his congregation that there were defectors. There

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:29.200
<v Speaker 2>were people who are like the what is this, I'm

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:31.480
<v Speaker 2>getting out of here, and they would go start to

0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:34.560
<v Speaker 2>talk publicly about this. But yeah, he had enough clout

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:40.240
<v Speaker 2>to like get any real, real unfavorable coverage or any

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 2>widespread unfavorable coverage stamped out. But one of the things

0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:48.000
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned that I think he really started to ratchet

0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 2>up around this time was isolating his congregation by creating

0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:57.480
<v Speaker 2>US versus them mentality, Yeah, and creating a siege mentality

0:28:58.000 --> 0:29:01.479
<v Speaker 2>among the people who remember of the People's Temple, especially

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:06.440
<v Speaker 2>the hardest core members, that the US government wanted them

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:09.840
<v Speaker 2>shut down. People were spreading lies about them, Like if

0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 2>an article did get out, he could point to how

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 2>this is like lies and propaganda against the People's Temple

0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:18.840
<v Speaker 2>and use it as evidence about how there really was

0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 2>was a siege and at some point the People's Temple

0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:24.320
<v Speaker 2>in San Francisco actually burned down. I saw that they

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 2>think it was white supremacists. Jim Jones blamed it on

0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 2>the Nation of Islam. Somebody burned the temple down, and

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 2>all that did was fee that paranoid sensibility that just

0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 2>isolated the members of the People's Temple even further and

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:42.320
<v Speaker 2>pushed them even closer toward Jim Jones, who just used

0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:44.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that to his advantage at every turn.

0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he was also like things got a little more

0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:51.640
<v Speaker 3>violent and militaristic.

0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:52.720
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:56.840
<v Speaker 3>He got his inner most circle together and named them

0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:59.920
<v Speaker 3>the Planning Commission. They were his sort of in turn

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 3>old security team and things. You know, he would start saying, Okay,

0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.640
<v Speaker 3>you congregants have to have sex with each other. You

0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:12.720
<v Speaker 3>congregants are getting married to one another. There were starvation

0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 3>diets that was forced to labor.

0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes.

0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:18.720
<v Speaker 3>You know, if a congregation member stepped out of line,

0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.680
<v Speaker 3>they might be stripped and marched around in front of

0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:26.000
<v Speaker 3>the other temple members. So things are full on swinging

0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:29.720
<v Speaker 3>cults at this point when he is being written about

0:30:29.760 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 3>in the press and like you said, getting most of

0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.440
<v Speaker 3>it stamped out. But something happened in nineteen seventy three

0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:37.200
<v Speaker 3>that like where the walls really started to close in

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 3>on them, and that was a I mean, I guess

0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:46.400
<v Speaker 3>sort of a sting operation. He was bisexual, that was

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 3>not out, and in fact, later on in like sort

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 3>of the the not the last days, but sort of

0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 3>while he was in Guyana and living there, which we'll

0:30:55.640 --> 0:31:00.280
<v Speaker 3>get to, he told all the congregation, you're all homosexual,

0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 3>and I'm the only heterosexual here.

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:04.600
<v Speaker 1>So he made a big deal about that.

0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 3>But he was definitely bisexual because he would abuse both

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:13.720
<v Speaker 3>men and women within the temple, some accusations that they

0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 3>were under age, of course. And in late nineteen seventy three,

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:20.440
<v Speaker 3>in December, he was at a movie theater in Los

0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 3>Angeles and an undercover cop I read the police report,

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:30.280
<v Speaker 3>apparently Jones signaled to him like, hey, meet me up

0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:33.360
<v Speaker 3>in the balcony, and the cop instead went to the

0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.880
<v Speaker 3>bathroom and motioned for him to come in there. And

0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:39.560
<v Speaker 3>when he got to the bathroom, Jim Jones pulled his

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:43.080
<v Speaker 3>pants down and started to masturbate in front of him.

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 3>The cop left and had his partner come in there

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:49.240
<v Speaker 3>and arrest him, and he got out of it.

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.360
<v Speaker 2>He apparently I didn't see this anywhere, but Ed said

0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:57.800
<v Speaker 2>that he found that his defense was that he was

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 2>jumping up and down massaging his prostate, which was hurting

0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:03.240
<v Speaker 2>him at the time.

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he had a doctor's letter, dude.

0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:10.520
<v Speaker 2>I also saw that he just he uses political connections

0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to get him out of it.

0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's hard to tell what happened because the judge

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:18.880
<v Speaker 3>and I don't know, this seems weird. Maybe that kind

0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:22.200
<v Speaker 3>of thing happened a lot though. The judge ordered the

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:26.960
<v Speaker 3>arrest records destroyed and then the file was sealed, So

0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:29.120
<v Speaker 3>I don't think a lot of people really know exactly

0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:32.360
<v Speaker 3>why he was released. But he had a doctor's note,

0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 3>and the doctor went to bat for him and said, yeah,

0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:37.840
<v Speaker 3>I mean, this is what it might look like when

0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:41.200
<v Speaker 3>he's trying to work up a urination in the bathroom.

0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, just really just stay with me here, it said

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 2>in the note.

0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:48.960
<v Speaker 2>So that was a big turning point, Like you said,

0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 2>that was December of nineteen seventy three, and Jim Jones

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 2>started to get the message that the direction he was

0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 2>taking his congregation in was too bizarre for San Francisco,

0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 2>maybe even too bizarre for the United States. And he

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:11.120
<v Speaker 2>remembered Guyana at the time and sent some people down

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:15.320
<v Speaker 2>there to start scouting out and setting up a compound,

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>a place, I guess, an additional place for the People's

0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Temple outside of the oversight of the United States government

0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:27.440
<v Speaker 2>and the United States press and all that. And while

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.480
<v Speaker 2>they were off doing that, there was something he did

0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:36.240
<v Speaker 2>back in San Francisco that was enormously important, and I say,

0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:37.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe we take a break and we'll come back and

0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 2>talk about.

0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:42.480
<v Speaker 3>It our first cliffhanger of the year. That's right, we'll

0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 3>be right back.

0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:12.360
<v Speaker 2>So nineteen seventy four he's sent some people down to Guyana, Guyana,

0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:15.800
<v Speaker 2>to start setting up a new compound for the People's

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Temple down there.

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Socialist country, by the way, at the time.

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which makes sense because by this time Jim Jones

0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:27.000
<v Speaker 2>has been identifying himself to his congregation as their socialist God.

0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Over time, he slowly stripped away the concept that Jesus

0:34:31.719 --> 0:34:34.960
<v Speaker 2>is God or that he was Jesus, and replaced himself

0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:38.279
<v Speaker 2>to his followers as God. Like they started towards the end,

0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 2>following him as God, they called him Father, They called

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:47.200
<v Speaker 2>him Dad. He was very much like their religious figure

0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 2>on earth, way more than just their reverend or their

0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:53.160
<v Speaker 2>pastor or even the head of their cult. Like he

0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:59.239
<v Speaker 2>was a supernatural religious figure in the most ardent of believer's.

0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Eyes, Elvis exactly.

0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:05.799
<v Speaker 2>So he tries something with him that proved to be

0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:09.360
<v Speaker 2>the first of a couple of attempts, or a couple

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:13.600
<v Speaker 2>of practice runs for what happened in Guyana in San Francisco.

0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 2>At the People's Temple, he handed out cups and he said, Hey,

0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:22.160
<v Speaker 2>I know we all steer clear of alcohol me, but

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 2>one of our vineyards has produced a really great wine

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.440
<v Speaker 2>and I want everybody to try it. So he passed

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:32.239
<v Speaker 2>out cups, made sure everybody tried the wine. He circulated

0:35:32.360 --> 0:35:34.799
<v Speaker 2>among everyone as they were drinking it, and then after

0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:37.920
<v Speaker 2>everyone had finished, he went back to the polepit and

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:42.080
<v Speaker 2>he said that was poisoned. You're all going to die

0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:44.239
<v Speaker 2>in about the next ten minutes or something. We're all

0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:47.799
<v Speaker 2>going to die together. And he gauged their reaction, and

0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:52.440
<v Speaker 2>apparently the reaction was a combination between stunned silence and

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:57.959
<v Speaker 2>acquiescence like okay that there wasn't people screaming, people weren't

0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>running for the doors, nobody tried to beat him up

0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:06.239
<v Speaker 2>or kill him. That was just he saw they would

0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 2>actually do this, like I think if I actually asked

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:10.640
<v Speaker 2>them to do it and didn't just trick them into it.

0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:13.560
<v Speaker 2>And he said, I'm this is all just a test

0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 2>of your loyalty. You all passed way to go. But

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.319
<v Speaker 2>that was not the only time that he did that

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:19.400
<v Speaker 2>to those poor people.

0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he started, Well, let's back up a set, because

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:28.040
<v Speaker 3>in seventy four is when about fifty temple members went

0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:30.719
<v Speaker 3>to Guyana to start setting it up. And they did

0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.239
<v Speaker 3>that for about three years, and a magazine article came

0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 3>out in New West magazine in nineteen seventy seven that

0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:41.440
<v Speaker 3>really exposed him for what he was and he was like, okay,

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:44.120
<v Speaker 3>like the jig is up, I have to get out

0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:48.600
<v Speaker 3>of here now. So he moved with his family to

0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:52.319
<v Speaker 3>Guyana and apparently the facilities could only support about two

0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:56.320
<v Speaker 3>hundred people. In May of seventy seven, six hundred more came,

0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:59.399
<v Speaker 3>and then the ensuing months, another four hundred people came.

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:01.319
<v Speaker 1>A lot of these were kids.

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:05.000
<v Speaker 3>A lot of these people were elderly, or infirmed, and

0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.800
<v Speaker 3>so there weren't enough people there to work and sustain it. Really,

0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:11.680
<v Speaker 3>they worked twelve hours a day. The people that could work,

0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:14.880
<v Speaker 3>it was brutal. When they weren't working, they were listening

0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:17.800
<v Speaker 3>to his sermons and his lectures, they were watching Russian

0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:23.399
<v Speaker 3>communist propaganda films, and abuse allegations started to come out,

0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:26.800
<v Speaker 3>and he got super paranoid, and that's when he started

0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:29.640
<v Speaker 3>leading more and more of those dry runs. He called

0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:32.520
<v Speaker 3>them white Knights, where he would have these trial runs

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:36.160
<v Speaker 3>for mass suicide. Sometimes they would meet in the pavilion

0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 3>and his security team would like fire guns from the

0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 3>jungle over their heads. One of them lasted for six days.

0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:47.040
<v Speaker 3>It was called the six day Siege. And they were

0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 3>just all these dry runs for killing themselves. And I

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 3>think they just routinely got used to it.

0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but every time it was just a test of

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 2>their loyalty. It was a drill to practice for when

0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 2>the United States military inevitably invaded, because that siege mentality

0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:07.640
<v Speaker 2>had gotten even more paranoid. Apparently he was just off

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:12.520
<v Speaker 2>his rocker on speed. Would give hours and hours and

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:16.520
<v Speaker 2>hours long marathon sermons into the night. And you mentioned

0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 2>that the bulk of the building of Jonestown fell on

0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 2>the shoulders of like a not like a minority, but

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:29.440
<v Speaker 2>far fewer people than there were to support. So those

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:36.560
<v Speaker 2>people were working day and night and eating black black

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:42.759
<v Speaker 2>eyed peas and rice and bananas, and it is nice,

0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:45.480
<v Speaker 2>but if that's all you're eating, and you're working hard

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 2>labor hours and hours a day, and then when you

0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:51.720
<v Speaker 2>get off of hard labor, you go sit and listen

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:55.200
<v Speaker 2>to an hour's long sermon till two am or three am.

0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:56.879
<v Speaker 2>Then you have to get up at five or six

0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 2>the next morning and start all over again. Even the

0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:02.680
<v Speaker 2>people who who were at Jonestown, who weren't like I

0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:06.360
<v Speaker 2>would kill myself for Jim Jones believers were too tired

0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:09.520
<v Speaker 2>and sleep deprived to give any kind of problems to

0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Jim Jones in the direction he was taking everybody. So

0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:15.759
<v Speaker 2>that was actually like part of the plan apparently, or

0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 2>at the very least it was a happy byproduct for

0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Jim Jones that the people were either totally committed to

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:27.600
<v Speaker 2>him or they were so overworked and underslept that they

0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:29.360
<v Speaker 2>just couldn't put up any kind of protest.

0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for sure. So things are happening in Guyana at Jonestown. Finally,

0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.160
<v Speaker 3>a you know press is still writing about this stuff

0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:41.879
<v Speaker 3>back in the States, and in late nineteen seventy eight,

0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:45.760
<v Speaker 3>a California Congressman named Leo Ryan, who had been following

0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:49.360
<v Speaker 3>this story, and this is one of the more remarkable

0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:53.360
<v Speaker 3>parts of this whole story. A congressman flew to Guyana

0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:57.160
<v Speaker 3>with a small group like some NBC camera people and

0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:00.880
<v Speaker 3>reporters and journalists and stuff on a fact finding mission.

0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:04.279
<v Speaker 3>They actually went to the camp at Jonestown and met

0:40:04.280 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 3>in the pavilion. While they were there, a temple member

0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:12.279
<v Speaker 3>named Vernon Gosni passed a note to a reporter that

0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 3>was meant for Leo Ryan that said, please help me

0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:19.960
<v Speaker 3>and my wife leave. They got out of there and

0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:23.040
<v Speaker 3>took fifteen temple members that were defecting with them, and

0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:25.799
<v Speaker 3>Jim Jones was like, they can go. It's fine. People

0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:27.920
<v Speaker 3>are free to go if they want to. There was

0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:30.799
<v Speaker 3>some brief incident with Ryan where he was held at

0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:33.719
<v Speaker 3>nine point or there was an attempted stabbing. Things got

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 3>pretty chaotic and they got the heck out of there

0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:38.880
<v Speaker 3>and went to this airstrip. While they were waiting on

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:42.800
<v Speaker 3>their couple of planes to get ready, and the Red Brigade,

0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:45.600
<v Speaker 3>which was the new name of his security team by

0:40:45.600 --> 0:40:49.600
<v Speaker 3>this point, who were really really militaristic this point, showed

0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:52.359
<v Speaker 3>up at the airfield and just opened fire on him.

0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and just to kind of rewind for one second,

0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:58.719
<v Speaker 2>when Leo Ryan showed up, he was showing up to

0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:01.600
<v Speaker 2>investigate this cult that he'd heard nothing about, bad things about.

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 2>But his reception and like the banquet that was thrown

0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:08.120
<v Speaker 2>for him and the music that was played in the

0:41:08.800 --> 0:41:15.319
<v Speaker 2>services that he witnessed were so enthusiastic and upbeat that

0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.960
<v Speaker 2>he actually gave a speech to them saying like, it's

0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:21.719
<v Speaker 2>very clear that for most of you, this is the

0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:24.120
<v Speaker 2>greatest thing that's ever happened to you. And the place

0:41:24.200 --> 0:41:28.520
<v Speaker 2>just erupts and like cheers. They've like won this guy over,

0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:31.400
<v Speaker 2>like maybe they'll be left alone from now on, And

0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:35.040
<v Speaker 2>it was like a jubilant You can tell Congressman Ryan

0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 2>is like into it too, He's like, this is great.

0:41:38.280 --> 0:41:41.320
<v Speaker 2>And it goes from that to all of a sudden,

0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:43.960
<v Speaker 2>the truth of the matter is just kind of exposed,

0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:46.759
<v Speaker 2>like a little rotten core of an apple that you

0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:49.640
<v Speaker 2>thought was just totally bright and shiny, and it must

0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:54.200
<v Speaker 2>have been stomach turning to have your perceptions just turned

0:41:54.640 --> 0:41:58.640
<v Speaker 2>on end like that. When that note was handed to

0:41:58.680 --> 0:42:02.280
<v Speaker 2>that cameraman Leo O. Ryan was like, oh, these people

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:05.759
<v Speaker 2>are totally brainwashed, and I was almost duped, and then

0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:08.239
<v Speaker 2>it became tense. Then he was held at nine point

0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:12.040
<v Speaker 2>and then he ended up dying on the airstrip.

0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Actually we did one on brainwashing too.

0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:17.600
<v Speaker 2>We totally did. We also did one on roundabouts people

0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:18.600
<v Speaker 2>who like roundabouts.

0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:25.040
<v Speaker 3>So remarkably part of this exists on film. The NBC

0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:27.799
<v Speaker 3>camera person Bob Brown was filming some b roll there

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:33.880
<v Speaker 3>when this shootout breaks out, and it wasn't much because

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:36.600
<v Speaker 3>he actually was shot and killed and his camera was

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:39.000
<v Speaker 3>shot up as well, so he only had a few

0:42:39.000 --> 0:42:44.120
<v Speaker 3>seconds of this attack. But Ryan was killed, that cameraman

0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:47.560
<v Speaker 3>Bob Brown was killed, NBC reporter Don Harris was killed.

0:42:47.960 --> 0:42:50.640
<v Speaker 3>There was a photographer from the Examiner in San Francisco

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:54.160
<v Speaker 3>named Greg Robinson that was killed, and one of the defectors,

0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:58.239
<v Speaker 3>Patricia Parks, was killed. And in the second airplane, this

0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:00.399
<v Speaker 3>was a little cessna, so there weren't even that many

0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:03.480
<v Speaker 3>people on it. There was a defector there that was,

0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:07.080
<v Speaker 3>you know, pretending to defect, pulls out a gun inside

0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:10.320
<v Speaker 3>that tiny plane and opens fire somehow doesn't kill anyone,

0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:13.440
<v Speaker 3>he wounds three of them, and the people that survive

0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:16.799
<v Speaker 3>like just you know, booked it into the jungle, and

0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 3>it is I mean, this is the beginning of a

0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:20.440
<v Speaker 3>very quick end.

0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Two of the people who were attacked on the

0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:26.000
<v Speaker 2>airstrip survived by pretending they were dead. Jackie Spear, who

0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:29.200
<v Speaker 2>was Leo Ryan's assistant, and Steve Sung, who was a

0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:32.520
<v Speaker 2>sound guy. I think for NBC, they pretended they were dead,

0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:35.480
<v Speaker 2>and I think Jackie Spear said she was shot point blank,

0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 2>like they came up to make sure she was dead

0:43:37.680 --> 0:43:42.640
<v Speaker 2>and didn't manage to kill her. I read, Chuck, this

0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 2>is really important. I read that they laid there that

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Jackie Spear reported laying there for twenty two hours before

0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:53.239
<v Speaker 2>help came. Okay, so she's laying there pretending she's dead

0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:57.279
<v Speaker 2>on the tarmac for twenty two hours and just put

0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:02.239
<v Speaker 2>that in your bonnet and save it for like, yeah, absolutely,

0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:05.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty two hours after the attack, helped finally came for

0:44:05.320 --> 0:44:06.399
<v Speaker 2>Jackie Spears.

0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:11.600
<v Speaker 3>Back at the temple, Jim Jones, he knows this is it.

0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 3>Like the walls have fully closed in, they've committed multiple

0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:18.200
<v Speaker 3>murders here, and he knows there's no way out, so

0:44:18.719 --> 0:44:21.160
<v Speaker 3>he's like, the military is going to be coming for us,

0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:26.400
<v Speaker 3>the US military. Revolutionary suicide is the only way out.

0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:32.520
<v Speaker 3>And there is a recording that's very disturbing, I mean,

0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:33.520
<v Speaker 3>big trigger warnings.

0:44:33.520 --> 0:44:35.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to get too involved in it.

0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 3>It's called the Death Tape, but you can listen to

0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:44.360
<v Speaker 3>the revolutionary suicide process unfold on this tape.

0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Did you listen to it?

0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:47.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I listened to the whole thing.

0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:48.879
<v Speaker 1>I had to.

0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:51.200
<v Speaker 3>Scrub through some of it because it's really hard to

0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:55.480
<v Speaker 3>listen to. There are parts where people are standing up

0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:58.440
<v Speaker 3>and saying, no, this is not what we want. There

0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:02.920
<v Speaker 3>are people that are just unsure. There are and this

0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:06.719
<v Speaker 3>is very triggering, obviously, but there were the sounds of

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:10.160
<v Speaker 3>children crying all over the place in the background, and

0:45:10.239 --> 0:45:13.759
<v Speaker 3>a woman saying they're not in pain, it's just a

0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:16.319
<v Speaker 3>bitter taste in their mouth, that no one's feeling any pain.

0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:18.560
<v Speaker 1>And it's just.

0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:23.160
<v Speaker 3>Incredibly disturbing and remarkable that this exists in the world

0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.920
<v Speaker 3>and that you can listen to this. But then you know,

0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:28.200
<v Speaker 3>at like the forty two minute mark, it just goes

0:45:28.360 --> 0:45:29.880
<v Speaker 3>quiet and it's haunting.

0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think from what I understand, it's really easy

0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:35.399
<v Speaker 2>to take it like that's the end of Jones Town.

0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 2>But I believe what the death tape covers is the

0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:45.240
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the whole thing. Yeah, the killing of the children.

0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:47.520
<v Speaker 2>That's why you're hearing the children screaming. They're dying from

0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:53.160
<v Speaker 2>being forced to drink cyanide, and they as it gets quiet,

0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:56.839
<v Speaker 2>that's because the kids have died. It's just as eerie.

0:45:56.880 --> 0:45:59.720
<v Speaker 2>That doesn't make it any less eerie. But apparently after

0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:03.879
<v Speaker 2>that the tape runs out, is when the adults really

0:46:03.880 --> 0:46:06.239
<v Speaker 2>started drinking. Because at the end he's like bringing the

0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:10.279
<v Speaker 2>bring in the vat with the flavor ad in it

0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:13.120
<v Speaker 2>so that the adults can start drinking. That's toward the

0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.839
<v Speaker 2>end of the tape. But you mentioned somebody standing up.

0:46:15.840 --> 0:46:19.719
<v Speaker 2>A woman named Christy Miller was the sole person who

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:22.200
<v Speaker 2>challenged Jim Jones directly. She went to the mic and

0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:24.759
<v Speaker 2>was like, yeah, isn't there isn't there any other way,

0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:27.200
<v Speaker 2>like you told us Soviet Union would take us. Is

0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:30.480
<v Speaker 2>it too late for that? You know? As long, I think,

0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>she said, as long as there's life, there's hope, Like

0:46:33.960 --> 0:46:36.640
<v Speaker 2>we shouldn't do this, and then she also said, I

0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:39.120
<v Speaker 2>think the children would want to live, they should be

0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:42.359
<v Speaker 2>able to live, and she ended up getting shouted down

0:46:42.440 --> 0:46:47.040
<v Speaker 2>by other members, but she tried really hard, and apparently

0:46:47.880 --> 0:46:50.120
<v Speaker 2>she was one of the people who was found at

0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Jonestown later on with a puncture mark in her arm,

0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:56.720
<v Speaker 2>and that she was probably killed, that she was murdered.

0:46:56.760 --> 0:46:58.600
<v Speaker 2>She didn't she didn't drink the kool aid or the

0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:02.680
<v Speaker 2>flavor aid herself. She was probably injected with cyanide, and

0:47:02.719 --> 0:47:07.480
<v Speaker 2>that's almost certainly how she died. But she was extremely

0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:11.440
<v Speaker 2>brave for trying to save all those people, and it

0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:16.439
<v Speaker 2>was useless because Jim Jones knew there was no other

0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:18.480
<v Speaker 2>way out for him. He was going to kill himself,

0:47:19.200 --> 0:47:21.640
<v Speaker 2>and that he couldn't very well leave these people alive

0:47:21.680 --> 0:47:25.360
<v Speaker 2>without him. And he specifically says, you're gonna do this,

0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:27.480
<v Speaker 2>you want to do this. There's no life without me,

0:47:28.200 --> 0:47:31.680
<v Speaker 2>and I'm gonna die, so we all need to die together,

0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:36.320
<v Speaker 2>and he's encouraging them outright, encouraging them Chuck. On this tape,

0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:39.759
<v Speaker 2>you can hear him how he gets them to take

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:43.839
<v Speaker 2>their own lives and kill their own children. It's like

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:47.560
<v Speaker 2>that's it went from like bleak research to just like,

0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:51.200
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe this actually happened, Like my brain kept

0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:53.960
<v Speaker 2>like repelling from wrapping itself around it.

0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:57.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was, like I said, I couldn't even listen

0:47:57.440 --> 0:47:58.919
<v Speaker 3>to it all the way through. I had to kind

0:47:58.920 --> 0:48:02.600
<v Speaker 3>of just skip ahead. But you did mention, and this is,

0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:04.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, this is the fact that most people know

0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:08.120
<v Speaker 3>by now, because usually that guy at every party likes

0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.680
<v Speaker 3>to point out that it was not actually kool aid drink.

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:13.600
<v Speaker 3>The kool aid has become a euphemism. But it was

0:48:13.719 --> 0:48:17.280
<v Speaker 3>great flavor aid in fact, and it had a bunch

0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:20.640
<v Speaker 3>of stuff in it. It had one, two, three, four, five, six,

0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 3>seven different you know, various sedatives and antipsychotics, and there

0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:28.920
<v Speaker 3>was one malaria medication in there for some reason.

0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:29.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure why.

0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:35.280
<v Speaker 3>Valium, but cyanide was ultimately what you know, did everyone

0:48:35.320 --> 0:48:39.440
<v Speaker 3>in And like you said, they killed the children first

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:42.680
<v Speaker 3>by putting it in a syringe and shooting it in

0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:46.319
<v Speaker 3>their mouth, and then other people took it willingly, and

0:48:46.360 --> 0:48:49.920
<v Speaker 3>then like you said, in the case of Christine Miller,

0:48:50.160 --> 0:48:54.840
<v Speaker 3>that she was injected like other people were, obviously against

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:57.719
<v Speaker 3>her will. And a lot of people thought it was

0:48:57.719 --> 0:48:59.920
<v Speaker 3>another White Night rehearsal, so they went along with it,

0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 3>maybe not knowing that they were really gonna die. And

0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:07.440
<v Speaker 3>in the end, nine hundred and eighteen people died in Guyana,

0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:12.120
<v Speaker 3>nine hundred and seven from the poisoning. Then Annie Moore

0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:16.960
<v Speaker 3>and Jim Jones either killed themselves with their own gun

0:49:17.040 --> 0:49:21.919
<v Speaker 3>or had one of the Red Brigade do it. Three

0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:25.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry. Two hundred and seventy six of these victims

0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:28.799
<v Speaker 3>were kids, and then there were people that went out

0:49:28.800 --> 0:49:32.560
<v Speaker 3>into the jungle. Other people died later. There was this

0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:36.600
<v Speaker 3>really sort of sad, bizarre story of this woman named

0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:40.520
<v Speaker 3>Sharon Amos, who was a temple member who was in Georgetown, Guyana,

0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:44.040
<v Speaker 3>who got the message that you need to kill yourself,

0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:48.040
<v Speaker 3>and so she killed her two young kids and then

0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:51.600
<v Speaker 3>her third, her twenty one year old daughter, Leanne Harris.

0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:55.399
<v Speaker 3>Apparently they looked at each other and either slit each

0:49:55.440 --> 0:49:58.879
<v Speaker 3>other's throats or their own throats. There were two other

0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:01.400
<v Speaker 3>people in the bathroom, ten year old named Stephanie Brown

0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:04.400
<v Speaker 3>and a forty three year old man named Charles Beekman.

0:50:05.640 --> 0:50:09.520
<v Speaker 3>He was charged with her attempted murder because he cut her,

0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:12.680
<v Speaker 3>but he told her, hey, I have to Apparently he

0:50:12.719 --> 0:50:14.360
<v Speaker 3>was trying to help her live, and he said, I

0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:18.279
<v Speaker 3>have to cut you to make it look real. And

0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:21.480
<v Speaker 3>he got off on five years because she corroborated that

0:50:21.600 --> 0:50:24.920
<v Speaker 3>story in court, so he didn't, you know, get a

0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:25.600
<v Speaker 3>full conviction.

0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:29.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot of really weird, bizarre stories about

0:50:30.000 --> 0:50:32.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, what people did when faced with this, you know.

0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:36.719
<v Speaker 2>One of the things from that tape. One more thing

0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:40.120
<v Speaker 2>about the tape that really got me was there somebody

0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:43.560
<v Speaker 2>like people were testifying. People were coming up and getting

0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the mic and thanking Dad, thanking Jim Jones. For one

0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:49.640
<v Speaker 2>guy goes, thank you, you know, Dad for giving me life,

0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, as an afterthought, he's like and death.

0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:56.799
<v Speaker 2>Like they were thanking him for this. Right. So one

0:50:56.840 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 2>person came up to the mic and said, all you

0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:01.880
<v Speaker 2>people along the way wall crying over there, this is

0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:03.600
<v Speaker 2>not a time to be sad. This is this is

0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:06.319
<v Speaker 2>something to be happy for. And the fact that there

0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:12.160
<v Speaker 2>were people crying along the wall, to me, those were

0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 2>the people who who knew they didn't have any way out,

0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:18.239
<v Speaker 2>not because you know, the US military was coming to

0:51:18.320 --> 0:51:21.560
<v Speaker 2>kill everyone and torture the children, but because they the

0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:24.279
<v Speaker 2>Jim Jones's people were not going to let them leave.

0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:27.480
<v Speaker 2>It was either try to get away and be killed shot,

0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.000
<v Speaker 2>or drink the kool aid yourself and be part of

0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:32.759
<v Speaker 2>the revolutionary suicide. And they were scared to death. They

0:51:32.760 --> 0:51:36.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to die. They were literally grieving their own

0:51:36.120 --> 0:51:40.640
<v Speaker 2>death right before they died. And that was the choice,

0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:43.359
<v Speaker 2>like you couldn't you weren't allowed to leave, you had

0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:47.040
<v Speaker 2>to drink the flavorrate. But a couple of people did

0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:52.160
<v Speaker 2>get away, these survivors who literally escaped the tent that

0:51:52.200 --> 0:51:55.560
<v Speaker 2>the people were killing themselves in and got away and

0:51:55.880 --> 0:51:58.799
<v Speaker 2>snuck off into the jungle. And those people are like

0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:02.719
<v Speaker 2>really important sources of information for what happened because they

0:52:02.719 --> 0:52:05.879
<v Speaker 2>saw people dying. They didn't leave right before they left,

0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:07.799
<v Speaker 2>like during this whole thing, at the height of it,

0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:11.440
<v Speaker 2>and they came back and they did all sorts of

0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:15.920
<v Speaker 2>terrible things. They had to identify bodies, they had to

0:52:16.960 --> 0:52:19.480
<v Speaker 2>they had to explain what was going on. They one

0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:24.440
<v Speaker 2>guy is named Charles Clayton. He was a really important

0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:27.560
<v Speaker 2>source for a lot of the documentaries. You'll see he

0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:33.080
<v Speaker 2>slipped away and got away unnoticed, and that whole identifying

0:52:33.160 --> 0:52:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the bodies thing. I know, I sound like I'm rambling

0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:38.640
<v Speaker 2>but there's just so much to talk about, but we

0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:42.400
<v Speaker 2>probably should should go to that part about the aftermath,

0:52:42.440 --> 0:52:46.120
<v Speaker 2>because I mentioned that Jackie Spears was alone on the

0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:50.160
<v Speaker 2>airstrip a couple miles away from Jonestown for twenty two hours,

0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:55.680
<v Speaker 2>and the people of Jonestown killed themselves within an hour

0:52:55.719 --> 0:53:00.640
<v Speaker 2>and a half maybe two hours of the fascination of

0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Leo Ryan and those people. So that meant that that

0:53:04.120 --> 0:53:10.040
<v Speaker 2>it was just as totally quiet, eerie village of the

0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:15.080
<v Speaker 2>dead for a good twenty hours before any outsiders came

0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:16.480
<v Speaker 2>in and saw what had happened.

0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Terrible.

0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine?

0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:22.520
<v Speaker 1>It was horrifying?

0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, still is so one more kind of like little

0:53:29.680 --> 0:53:34.600
<v Speaker 2>add on. That was the worst civilian casualty of American

0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:38.600
<v Speaker 2>civilians in history, and it's remained that way until nine

0:53:38.640 --> 0:53:43.080
<v Speaker 2>to eleven. But the first responders who came, who had

0:53:43.080 --> 0:53:47.200
<v Speaker 2>who were responsible for getting these Americans their bodies back

0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:50.560
<v Speaker 2>home so that their families could claim them over the

0:53:50.600 --> 0:53:53.000
<v Speaker 2>course of like a terrible week in the heat, in

0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:57.400
<v Speaker 2>the storms and all that they were largely from the

0:53:57.440 --> 0:54:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Air Force, and the Air Force conducted a study on

0:54:00.600 --> 0:54:04.040
<v Speaker 2>how that experience impacted them, and it turned out to

0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:07.399
<v Speaker 2>be the first study of how something like that, how

0:54:07.440 --> 0:54:10.040
<v Speaker 2>first responders are affected by the things they see and

0:54:10.120 --> 0:54:13.600
<v Speaker 2>have to do from you know, mass casualty events in history.

0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:17.480
<v Speaker 2>And it really kind of created that whole field of

0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:23.959
<v Speaker 2>study essentially, Oh wow, yeah, something else, you got anything else?

0:54:25.000 --> 0:54:27.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's one more odd little fact that you dug

0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:33.120
<v Speaker 3>up that is fairly remarkable because the congress person Ryan

0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:35.040
<v Speaker 3>who was sadly killed.

0:54:34.760 --> 0:54:39.080
<v Speaker 1>That day, didn't his daughter end up in a cult.

0:54:39.239 --> 0:54:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Not just a cult, the cult that was featured in

0:54:42.160 --> 0:54:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Wild Wild Country, that Netflix documentary. She was a member

0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:49.279
<v Speaker 2>of that cult and ended up being married by that

0:54:49.440 --> 0:54:52.640
<v Speaker 2>guru in the ranch in Oregon a couple of years

0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:55.640
<v Speaker 2>after her father died. And they actually had a bottle

0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:58.120
<v Speaker 2>of champagne that said the guru, I can't remember the

0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:02.760
<v Speaker 2>guru's name, can turn even grape kool aid into wine.

0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:08.040
<v Speaker 2>So they even made a joke about it at the wedding. Yeah,

0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:10.920
<v Speaker 2>it's nuts, man, I just thought that I couldn't believe it.

0:55:11.360 --> 0:55:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a fantastic nugget to end on.

0:55:14.280 --> 0:55:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot, Well, sin Chuck said that was a

0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:20.040
<v Speaker 2>fantastic nugget. Of course, everybody. That means it's time for

0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:21.040
<v Speaker 2>listener mail.

0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:25.800
<v Speaker 3>All right, this is about the Christian heavy metal band Striper.

0:55:25.920 --> 0:55:28.800
<v Speaker 3>Of course, what a better way to finish out this episode.

0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:31.719
<v Speaker 3>Hey guys, grew up in the middle of the Canadian

0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:34.719
<v Speaker 3>Prairies in the seventies and eighties and was fourteen when

0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:38.680
<v Speaker 3>Striper's Soldiers under Command came out and fifteen when to

0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Hell with the Devil hit me like a ton of

0:55:41.200 --> 0:55:44.880
<v Speaker 3>bricks on this rock was built much of who I

0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:47.360
<v Speaker 3>still am. I learned how to play drums along with

0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:50.560
<v Speaker 3>Robert Sweet, but unlike Chuck, never had the opportunity to

0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:54.160
<v Speaker 3>see them live, as they rarely played Canada. They broke

0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:56.920
<v Speaker 3>up in the early nineties, and that I thought was that,

0:55:57.360 --> 0:55:59.560
<v Speaker 3>even though they got back together in two thousand and five,

0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:02.719
<v Speaker 3>I never managed to catch them live the few times

0:56:02.719 --> 0:56:06.280
<v Speaker 3>they snuck across the border until that is this summer

0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:09.120
<v Speaker 3>when I was down in Vancouver visiting the in laws

0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:11.719
<v Speaker 3>and they were playing Seattle, and I drove the three

0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:14.959
<v Speaker 3>hours to see them. It was an amazing show. They're

0:56:14.960 --> 0:56:17.160
<v Speaker 3>no longer playing the giant stadiums, of course, but.

0:56:17.760 --> 0:56:19.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they ever played giant stadiums.

0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:23.880
<v Speaker 3>But being able to stand ten feet from guitarist Oz Fox,

0:56:24.160 --> 0:56:26.319
<v Speaker 3>who can still shred after all these years, was an

0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:29.880
<v Speaker 3>amazing experience. They still got all the hair and vocalist

0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Michael Sweet can still hit those high notes, though not

0:56:33.040 --> 0:56:35.279
<v Speaker 3>as many as he used to. But after forty years,

0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:38.440
<v Speaker 3>they are very very good at making music. They're doing

0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:43.080
<v Speaker 3>an acoustic tour this year twenty twenty four, called to

0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:47.640
<v Speaker 3>Hell with the Amps and they're kicking off, kicking it

0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:51.239
<v Speaker 3>off down in Georgia playing Mad Life in Woodstock. I

0:56:51.239 --> 0:56:54.360
<v Speaker 3>haven't heard of that venue, and this is a May thirtieth,

0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:56.160
<v Speaker 3>and I bet Chuck would have a hell.

0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Of a time.

0:56:56.920 --> 0:56:59.120
<v Speaker 3>Who knows, they might even play a couple of songs

0:56:59.160 --> 0:56:59.880
<v Speaker 3>he recognizes.

0:57:00.520 --> 0:57:03.680
<v Speaker 1>That is from Trent. You gonna go and I don't know,

0:57:03.880 --> 0:57:04.840
<v Speaker 1>only if you go with me?

0:57:05.040 --> 0:57:08.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, I wasn't expecting that. We'll see. We'll talk

0:57:08.719 --> 0:57:12.520
<v Speaker 2>about it offline. That was Trent.

0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Huh, that's Trent.

0:57:14.120 --> 0:57:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot, Trent. That was a great email. Appreciate

0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:20.520
<v Speaker 2>the update on Striper And if you have one on

0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:24.160
<v Speaker 2>the guy who did Life as a Highway, it turns

0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:27.000
<v Speaker 2>out to be Tom Cochrane. I don't remember if you

0:57:27.040 --> 0:57:29.400
<v Speaker 2>said that in the episode or not. We would see

0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:33.560
<v Speaker 2>the right I would If you want to be like Trent,

0:57:33.640 --> 0:57:36.280
<v Speaker 2>you can get in touch with us at stuff podcast

0:57:36.480 --> 0:57:39.880
<v Speaker 2>at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:57:44.760 --> 0:57:48.920
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:50.880
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.