1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 2: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius and legitimate. 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 3: He says, he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 3: it will be different. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 4: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 3: on him. 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 4: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating the people. 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: Welcome to Delon, Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musket's Tuesday, 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 3: August twenty seventh. I'm your host, David Papodopolis. Now Tesla 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 3: is off the herald did as Elon musk premier company, 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 3: you know, the one that makes all the others go. 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: But as Tesla has struggled in recent months, it's Musk's 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 3: other big company, SpaceX, that keeps surging well ahead of 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: the competition. SpaceX has broken all sorts of new ground 20 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: in space, and this week they're trying to add the 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 3: first commercial space walk, whatever the hell that is, to 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: the list of accomplishments. Oh and they're also about to 23 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 3: very publicly bailout rival Boeing by retrieving two astronauts who 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: are stuck up there at the International Space Station. In 25 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 3: a bit, we're going to be joined by our crack 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 3: space reporters Lauren Grush and Bruce Einhorn to examine all 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 3: of this cosmic activity. But first we're going to talk 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 3: about X where there's been no shortage of news, with 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: Kirk Wagner, who covers the company for us here at Bloomberg. Hey, Kurt, hey, 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,279 Speaker 3: thanks for having me. And Sarah Fryar, who runs big 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: tech coverage here at Bloomberg. Hey, Sarah, Hi, Okay, Now, Kurt, 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: we're going to art with you. So the other day, 33 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: a bunch of the investors who backed Elon Musk when 34 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 3: he made his bid, his successful bid for Twitter a 35 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 3: couple of years ago, their names were revealed publicly for 36 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 3: the first time. Tell us who's on that list and 37 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 3: whether there are any surprises here for us. 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, there were some surprise investors. There were some expected ones, 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 5: things you know folks who've seen before, Sequoia Capital and 40 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 5: recent Horowitz Fidelity, sort of these big investors that had 41 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 5: been listed in filings before. But there were also some 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 5: new names. 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: Sean P. 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 5: Diddy, Combs the Rapper was in there. We had Bill 45 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 5: Ackman and Persian Square his fund was in there. There 46 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 5: was also we knew about Jack Dorsey, but Jack Dorsey's 47 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 5: name was also listed in there. So even though there 48 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 5: were some old names, there were some new ones that 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 5: were kind of fun, kind of giving us a flavor 50 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 5: of you know, how widespread I guess this investor group was, 51 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 5: and how many people Elon had to bring into the 52 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 5: fold in order to get this money. 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: The remind us all here the total investment made was 54 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: what what was the purchase price? And do we have 55 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 3: a sense of how much each of these individuals put up? 56 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 5: So the total purchase price was forty four billion dollars, 57 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 5: we don't know how much, for example, did he put in. 58 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 5: We do know that some of the other investors had 59 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 5: had their amounts listed prior, so I believe Sequoia was 60 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 5: maybe around eight hundred million dollars or something like that. 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 5: I think Andrews and Horowitz was maybe four hundred million. 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 5: Larry Ellison, the Oracle founder, was a billion dollars. Jack 63 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 5: Dorsey was a billion. So we know some of these 64 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 5: from prior disclosures. This document didn't include how much everyone invested. 65 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 5: But one thing to point out, Elon Musk owns more 66 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 5: or right around seventy five percent of X outright, So 67 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 5: if you include all these investors, none of them are 68 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 5: larger than ten percent shareholders, and they all own percentage 69 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 5: wise at least a relatively small amount of the company. 70 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 6: Which means a lot of them don't actually get any 71 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 6: information about the financial performance. 72 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 7: Of X, right, Yeah, usually that's shared with the largest 73 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 7: Why wouldn't must be providing them, you know, the people 74 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 7: who helped him put this deal together, with periodical updates 75 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 7: of how the company was doing. 76 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 5: It just usually depends on how much of a stake 77 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 5: you own in a company. So you know, some private 78 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 5: companies will share their financials with you know, large shareholders 79 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 5: for example, but a lot of the times, you know, 80 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 5: they'll have dozens, if not even hundreds of shareholders at 81 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 5: the small angel level, and they don't necessarily want that 82 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 5: financial information to be spread so widely to so many people, right. So, 83 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 5: you know, especially when it's something competitive like X and 84 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 5: they have so much debt on their balance sheet things 85 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 5: like that, they probably keep it a little bit closer 86 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 5: to the to the chest. So that it doesn't get 87 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 5: out into the press and get so distributed that way. 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 3: I see, Now, why did this information come out publicly? Now? 89 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, it came out as part of a legal filing. 90 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 5: So you know, Elon Musk is involved in many legal 91 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 5: disputes right now with people that he owes money to 92 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 5: former employees things of that, So this came out as 93 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 5: part of one of those legal filings. 94 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 3: Okay, Now, Sarah, I wonder what our sense is here 95 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 3: for the likes of Akman and Diddy and the others. 96 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: Was this backing of Musk's bid to take over Twitter? 97 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 3: Was it them currying favor with the person who was 98 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 3: either already the world's richest person or about to be 99 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: the world's richest person, or did they really see potential 100 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: here in this acquisition? I mean, I know hindsight's twenty 101 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: twenty in all, but still, I mean, man, this thing 102 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 3: has just been a train wreck from the jump. 103 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 6: I mean, you see some folks like Ackman who have 104 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 6: become part of the chorus of people saying that, you know, 105 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 6: wocism has gone too far is sort of aligned with 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 6: the Musk politics, and so I could see I could 107 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 6: see some of these folks joining because they are lined 108 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 6: with Musk and wanted to sort of change the public 109 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 6: conversation about his idea of what content moderations should look like, 110 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 6: his idea of what quote unquote free speech should look like. 111 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 6: But you know, you can't separate Elon Musk, the idealist 112 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 6: of Twitter, with Elon Musl, the richest man in the 113 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 6: world who also runs SpaceX, Tesla, and a number of 114 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 6: other highly influential companies. So if you're giving money to Musk, 115 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 6: it's really a small price to pay for access to 116 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 6: those future deals which could be incredibly lucrative, even if 117 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 6: you don't think the Twitter deal is going to be 118 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 6: that lucrative, or you know, even just favor with somebody 119 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 6: who's increasingly influential, not just in you know, our capitalist society, 120 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 6: but in geopolitics. 121 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: I will just note that the Wall Street Journal reported 122 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: this last week they ran the numbers and of all 123 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 3: the hung loans since the Great Financial Crisis, and a 124 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 3: hung loan in the of Wall Street is a loan 125 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 3: that Wall Street banks large Wall Street banks have made 126 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: to finance takeover deals that they in turn cannot or 127 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: fail to then sell off to other buyers in the 128 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 3: market who want to take this loan off their hands 129 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 3: when they're stuck with that loan because the loan is 130 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: such a bad investment and is doing so poorly. The 131 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: company is doing so poorly, it is referred to as 132 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: a hung loan, this Twitter loan or the loan made 133 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: to musk and to help finance this purchase. And the 134 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: biggest banks behind it were Titans, Wall Street, Morgan Stanley, 135 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: Bank of America, et cetera, et cetera. It is indeed 136 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: the worst hung loan since over that period. So you're 137 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: talking about a sixteen year period, I believe now since 138 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: a great financial crisis. It's been an absolute mess for 139 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: these banks and they just simply cannot get it off 140 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: their books. Remind me, Kurt, what is the totality of 141 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: the debt? 142 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I knew you're gonna ask me that. I believe 143 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 5: it's thirteen billion or something around that. But I mean, 144 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 5: you know, billions and billions of dollars here that he 145 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 5: borrowed to buy this company. And as you point out, 146 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 5: the reason they can't get these loans off their books, 147 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 5: that them being the banks, is that the business at 148 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 5: X is just doing so poorly that people don't want 149 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 5: to you know, take this one. They're worried he won't 150 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 5: be able to pay it back, right, I mean, David, 151 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 5: that's the idea, is like, the reason people aren't willing 152 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 5: to buy these loans is that they're not confident that 153 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 5: X will be able to pay them. And so that 154 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 5: is you know, certainly not a vote of confidence for 155 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 5: Elon or or a vote of confidence for what he's 156 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 5: been able to do at X over these last two 157 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 5: years since you took over. 158 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: Most certainly it is not I mean a hung loan, 159 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: as the term sort of implies, is a pretty bleak thing, 160 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: and this is a very hung loan, and it's a 161 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 3: very large hung loan. Now on the topic number two, 162 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 3: and on the bright side, the positive side here for 163 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 3: X Donald Trump, Kurt is back on the platform and 164 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: is exing on a regular basis. Now we talked about 165 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 3: it briefly the other day, but the ex is from 166 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 3: the former president keep on coming, huh. 167 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: They do. 168 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 5: And actually I saw this weekend that it finally felt 169 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 5: like he was truly back because he had one of those, 170 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 5: you know, very ranty like tweets that it looked like 171 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 5: he just fired off late at night or early in 172 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 5: the morning or whatever, what was it, Kurt? You know, 173 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 5: this was he was banging on Kamala Harris. I think 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 5: he called her like Cammi Kamala or something. He was 175 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 5: talking about fracking in the US, and it was just 176 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 5: one of those things where it had like the signature 177 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 5: Trump elements, right, It had like the all caps words 178 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 5: randomly slid in there, had crazy punctuation, It had the 179 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 5: nicknames for his political opponents. It was sort of like up. 180 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 3: You know. 181 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 5: The first couple tweets back were like very polished, clearly 182 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 5: done by someone on his team. And it's like he 183 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 5: finally got the wheels of his Twitter count back, his 184 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 5: ex account back, and now he's ready to you know, 185 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 5: unload like he used to several years ago. So I 186 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 5: feel like these next couple months could be it could 187 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 5: be interesting. 188 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 3: So do we have an account from him at this point? 189 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 3: Are we into the dozens yet? 190 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 5: I think we're well over a dozen. We're probably nearing 191 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 5: close to I'm scrolling through now, I would guess, you know, 192 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 5: fifteen to twenty is what we're getting close to. So 193 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 5: nowhere near the dozens per day that he used to do. 194 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 5: But certainly, I mean, remember he had only posted one 195 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 5: time over almost three years. So suddenly the fact that 196 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 5: he's sort of back at it at all is newsworthy. 197 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: We're building to that, mister Wagner. So, Sarah, from a 198 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 3: dollars and cents standpoint, for X, this could potentially be 199 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: meaningful now. 200 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 6: Well, political advertising historically for social media companies has been 201 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 6: such a very small portion of the overall advertising pool. 202 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 6: And so despite this this resurgence and interest from Camp 203 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 6: Trump and the ads that we've seen starting to run, 204 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 6: you know, it's necessary to have that mountain of debt. 205 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: It's helpful. Does it move the needle overall? I don't 206 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 4: think so. 207 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 5: I think it's more about drawing attention to the broader platform, right, 208 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 5: Like I don't think that that Trump is going to 209 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: spend enough that it's going to make a big needle 210 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 5: change for X. But I think it's like, if you 211 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 5: remember four years ago, Twitter was just in the news 212 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 5: every single day, constantly, right, and X has not had 213 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 5: that benefit even despite everything that Elon does. So if 214 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 5: Trump is making news on X every single day or 215 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 5: close to every single day, it's just good for the 216 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 5: service to be the topic of conversation as we head 217 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 5: into an election cycle and in. 218 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 6: Two bols or that trump enthusiasm for being on the platform, 219 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 6: it's now rolling out the red carpet for him. Seems 220 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 6: like algorithmically, I just see pro Trump stuff all the time. 221 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 6: Musk himself has backs him. I think think that, you know, 222 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 6: it's never been a more favorable space to play in. 223 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 6: But what we know about favorable spaces for the right, 224 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 6: it's not always that big of a success. We've seen 225 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 6: a lot of platforms struggle in having only the right 226 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 6: on them because part of what makes this kind of 227 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 6: a network fun is the ability to fight with people 228 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 6: who disagree with you, for better or for worse. 229 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 4: That's what they call it the hell site. 230 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 3: If there's no one to If there's no one to 231 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 3: fight with, you know, what the hell is the point 232 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 3: of it? 233 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 4: If everyone loves you, then what's the point of shouting? 234 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: Right? 235 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: Yeah? 236 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 3: Tedious, terribly tedious. The bromance between Trump and Elon is 237 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 3: going strong. We actually have a clip from Trump talking 238 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: about Elon in a potential role he could play in 239 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 3: the White House from the other day. 240 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: He wants to be involved. Now, look, he's running big 241 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: businesses and all that, so he can't really. I don't 242 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: think it'd be the cabinet. I put him in the 243 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: cabinet absolutely, but I don't know how he could do 244 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: that with all the things he's got going. But he can, 245 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: sort of, as the expression goes, consult with the country 246 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: and give you some very good ideas, like an AI. 247 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: There's nobody knows more about it than Ela. It's a big, 248 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, big thing. 249 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, who am I to argue with that? 250 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 3: AI is a big thing? Sarah. Is Trump's return to 251 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 3: x a bit of the deal we have here where 252 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 3: you know, hey, I elon Musk back you and your 253 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 3: candidacy and you among other things, Hey, get yourself back 254 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 3: to ekexing. 255 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, these guys need each other. 256 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 6: It's two men with a lot of legal baggage, a 257 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 6: lot that could happen to them and their businesses if 258 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 6: Trump doesn't get elected president, and that is driving a 259 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 6: lot of this. They are historically self interested when it 260 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 6: comes to like just must growing his businesses in the 261 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 6: way he wants to grow them without government intervention. Trump's 262 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 6: the guy who's who says, you know, as long as 263 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 6: you are nice to me, I'll let you do whatever 264 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 6: you want, essentially, And that's kind of his pitch right 265 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 6: now to big companies and it seems to be working on. 266 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 3: Us all right. Our third and final X topic here 267 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 3: is the arrest of the founder of Telegram, which you know, 268 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: dear listeners, you say, well, what does that have to 269 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 3: do with X. We will get to that in a second, 270 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 3: but first, Sarah tell us a little bit about Pavil Durov, 271 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: the founder, and tell us for the uninitiated out there, 272 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 3: what exactly Telegram is. 273 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 4: So Telegram is a chat app. 274 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 6: It's kind of like what's happened that people have groups 275 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 6: that they join and they can also one on one chat, 276 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 6: they can have stories, and it has the sense of 277 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 6: feeling a little bit more private. And especially since CEO 278 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 6: Pablo d'orov has been clear that he wants to support 279 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 6: free speech, he wants to support whatever people want to 280 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 6: do to express them. That has felt to a lot 281 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 6: of extremists like like a permission to to you know, 282 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 6: share their their ideas within Telegram, and people have become 283 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 6: radicalized there and they have There has been you know, 284 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 6: alleged drug trading, terrorist content, child sexual abuse imagery that 285 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 6: that has been. 286 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 4: Shared on that app. 287 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 6: Now there is a legal content on every social media platform. 288 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 6: That's just the nature of a user generated content business. 289 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 6: But for the most part, when companies know about the 290 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 6: content that is violative, they take it down. And the 291 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 6: French authorities are alleging that that telegram has not done that, 292 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 6: which is why they have gone ahead and arrested. 293 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 3: Now Kurt he is, or he was I should say, 294 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: arrested by French officials and he's still being held there today. 295 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 5: Correct, Yeah, I believe that they are. Basically they have, 296 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 5: you know, till Thursday or something to decide are they 297 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 5: going to charge him with some type of crime or 298 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 5: are they going to sort of kick him to the 299 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 5: curb and maybe bring him in as a witness or something. 300 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 5: But I think you know, this idea that a CEO 301 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 5: of a large social network could be arrested by government 302 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 5: is the reason this comes back to Elon is this 303 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 5: is scary for Elon. He has sort of been like, 304 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 5: could I be next? Could I be prosecuted in the 305 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 5: same way because I'm running X right now. 306 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, crimes or write or hate speech or things like 307 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 3: that committed on your platform if you willfully turn a 308 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 3: blind eye to them, can you at some point be 309 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: held responsible? And right? So, there is Kurt a bit 310 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 3: of that precedent issue potentially that would cernum. I mean 311 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: he has Elon in particular there in Europe, with the 312 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: and with the UK, he's really been sparring with officials 313 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 3: short of free speech issues, has he not? He has? 314 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 5: You're right, And I feel like what's sort of interesting 315 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 5: about this is when you think about what Elon said 316 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 5: when he first took over X he was asked repeatedly, 317 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 5: if you remember, what's your plan for content moderation? How 318 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 5: are you going to keep people safe on this platform? 319 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 5: And his answer was essentially, if it is illegal, I 320 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 5: will remove it. If it is not illegal, it can 321 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 5: stay up. He hasn't really followed that. There's several examples 322 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 5: that we talked about on this podcast before where he's 323 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 5: sort of strayed from that, but that is at its 324 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 5: core what he is content moderation policy is. What's interesting 325 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 5: here is that now the CEO of Telegram is being 326 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 5: arrested for things that the French government are saying are 327 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 5: illegal that his platform is doing, and Elon is getting upset, 328 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 5: right He's saying, wow, can you believe that they did this? 329 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 5: They're going to come for me next, and it's kind 330 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 5: of like, well, this is exactly what you said you 331 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 5: wanted X to look like, like, if something is illegal, 332 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 5: you will take it down. 333 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 6: And the peak of the bad things that Musk said 334 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 6: he would take down, the worst of the worst in 335 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 6: his mind, was that child sexual abuse material, which is 336 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 6: what French authorities are most concerned about on telegram. 337 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 4: That's right. 338 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 5: The reason I bring that up is I think it 339 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 5: just simply shines a light on how messy and complicated 340 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 5: this is and once again shows that Elon came in 341 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 5: with sort of this like very black and white plan 342 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 5: that I think people who have followed this space for 343 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 5: a long time new, well, it's not really that easy 344 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 5: to just say if it's illegal, I'll take it down. 345 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 5: If it's not, I'll leave it up, because you get 346 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 5: to instances where you feel the government is crossing the 347 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 5: line right and certainly child sexual exploitation content I think aside, 348 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 5: I think everyone including Elon would agree that there's no 349 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 5: place for that. But it is just it's just so messy, 350 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 5: and I think that he is realized that over his 351 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 5: time there, and I think this arrest just highlights how 352 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 5: messy it could be still for him if he continues 353 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 5: to try and pursue this. Everything goes mentality. 354 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 6: By the way, per US law, if you have legal 355 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 6: content on your platform and don't know about it, that's 356 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 6: one thing because it is user generated content. 357 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 4: There's no way that you know, YouTube, for. 358 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 6: Instance, could watch every single minute of video before it's 359 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 6: uploaded to see if anything is illegal. But when people 360 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 6: report it, when they bring it to your attention, you 361 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 6: need to act according to the law or else you're 362 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 6: in violation. And so it's different for different countries. And 363 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 6: what social networks have done historically is like in Germany, 364 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 6: where Holocaust denial is illegal, they will take it down, 365 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 6: but in other countries where it's not, they'll leave it up. 366 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 6: So it gets really complicated, and a lot of companies 367 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 6: have cut the government relations staffs that used to manage 368 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 6: those kinds of tricky country by country rules situations and 369 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 6: negotiate a lot of these things behind the scenes before 370 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 6: their CEOs get arrested. 371 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 3: Kurt Sarah, thanks so much for joining. 372 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. 373 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: Thank you was let me, thank. 374 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: You, Kurt, come on man that again, let's hear it. 375 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 4: Thank you for. 376 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 3: Joining me to talk. SpaceX are our two crack space 377 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 3: reporters Lauren Grush is beaming in from Austin, Texas. Lauren, Hello, Hi, 378 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 3: nice to be here. And Bruce Einhorn, who's calling in 379 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 3: from Princeton. Hey, brws Hello. Okay, Lauren, we're going to 380 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: start with you. SpaceX is riding to the rescue to 381 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 3: pick up astronauts stranded at the International Space Station. What 382 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 3: exactly happened here? 383 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 8: So I might take umbrage with the words stranded, but 384 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 8: we can get into that later. 385 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 3: Very good. 386 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 8: No, So this all started back in June with the 387 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 8: launch of a crude test flight that Boeing was launching 388 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 8: with its Starliners spacecraft. This is a space capsule that's 389 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 8: meant to take NAS astronauts to and from the International 390 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 8: Space Station. SpaceX also has its own apsolets, the Crew Dragon, 391 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 8: which they've been launching for many years now, but this 392 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 8: was Boeing's turn to prove that its space capsule could 393 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 8: safely take people to and from the ISS. Unfortunately, while 394 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 8: they were docking with the space station, they suffered a 395 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 8: number of technical issues. Namely, they had a number of 396 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 8: helium leaks and issues with their thrusters, tiny engines that 397 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 8: they used to maneuver through space. They were able to 398 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 8: dock successfully. But as they were staying on the space station, 399 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 8: NASA and Boeing was running a number of tests and 400 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 8: analyzes to better understand why those thrusters failed, and ultimately 401 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 8: they could not come up with a consensus as to 402 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 8: why the thrusters failed, nor did they feel particularly comfortable 403 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 8: with putting the astronauts back into the Starliner capsule to 404 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 8: bring them home without having that understanding. And so for 405 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 8: the last few months they've been debating whether or not 406 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 8: they want to bring the astronauts home and Starliner, and 407 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 8: ultimately they decided to avoid that risk. They were going 408 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 8: to bring the astronauts home in a SpaceX Crew Dragon 409 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 8: vehicle instead, which is unfortunately not supposed to come home 410 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 8: until February of twenty twenty five, which is a lengthy 411 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 8: delay for these astronauts who were supposed to be on 412 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 8: board the ISS for roughly a week. 413 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 3: I mean a trip of a week or so for 414 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 3: these astronauts, NASA astronauts Bush Willmore and Sunny Williams has 415 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 3: indeed turned into a trip for months. Bruce, this is 416 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 3: a pretty big coup for SpaceX, is it not. I mean, 417 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: I would guess and appreciate that in and of itself. 418 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: In terms of how much additional business it represents for SpaceX, 419 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 3: I'm guessing it's not all that much. But the broader 420 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 3: significance of Nassau turning to SpaceX to ride to the 421 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 3: rescue of its rival Boeing. 422 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: Here, as Lauren pointed out, this is going to be 423 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 2: a regularly scheduled mission for SpaceX anyway, So it's not 424 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: like they're getting anything at additional out of this. So 425 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: in that sense, there's not extra benefit to SpaceX. What 426 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: this does is it does highlight the just the importance 427 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: of SpaceX, not just to NASA, but more broadly the 428 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 2: role that SpaceX plays in the space economy. Because NASA 429 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: doesn't at the moment have another way to get them 430 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: back other than via SpaceX. 431 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 3: Or I guess it could have the you could have 432 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: the Russians pick them up. I mean, NASA does still 433 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 3: do business with the Russians. I guess you could. Your 434 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 3: other option if you don't want to call elon Musk 435 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: and SpaceX is you could call Vladimir Putin. 436 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be very difficult, though right for all 437 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: sorts of technical logistical reasons. The Russians spacecraft the Sawyers 438 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 2: is much smaller and can only handle three passengers at 439 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 2: a time. And also like turning into Vladimir Putin is 440 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: not the best thing at the moment. 441 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 3: Correct, correct, So you don't want to turn to Vladimir Putin, 442 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 3: so you turn to to Musk and SpaceX. You know, 443 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 3: Bruce in Apice you have out this morning, there was 444 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 3: a statistic in here that jumped out at me. I 445 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 3: believe I have this correct that SpaceX year to date 446 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 3: has done eighty rocket launches. All of its rivals combined 447 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 3: mostly two others have done fourteen launches. You have an 448 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: analyst for us at Bloomberg Intelligence saying SpaceX so dominates 449 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 3: space that it has effectively a temporary, de facto monopoly. 450 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: I wonder about the temporary question. If Boeing is descendant 451 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 3: here in this space, who else is out there to 452 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 3: potentially truly compete with SpaceX. 453 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: Well, just to clarify one thing, our Bloomberg colleague who 454 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 2: was talking about the defacto monopoly wasn't talking about everywhere 455 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: in space, but was talking in particular for geostationary satellites, 456 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: the really big satellites that go much higher up in space. 457 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: So there are other companies that do launch satellites to 458 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 2: LEO to lower th orbit. But as you pointed out, 459 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: SpaceX is by far the leader in terms of number 460 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: of launches, so it's not monopoly, but they have a 461 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: dominant position that puts them way ahead of everybody else 462 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: when it comes to launches to lower thorbit. 463 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I suppose all this is really quite amazing 464 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: for Elon and for SpaceX, I believe, and Lauren correct 465 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: me if I have this wrong, that their valuation, the 466 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: evaluation of SpaceX is now over two hundred billion dollars. 467 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 3: It's a privately held company, so it's tough to come 468 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 3: up with exact numbers. And at a time when Musk's 469 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 3: Tesla has begun to rapidly lose market share in the 470 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 3: EV market. You know, I think that their market share 471 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 3: is now down to under fifty percent from around eighty 472 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: percent or so five years ago in the US. You know, 473 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 3: it's market share in space is surging, approaching some iteration 474 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: of one hundred percent. Not quite, but in that headed, 475 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 3: in that direction, I even would suspect at some point 476 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 3: it's possible that SpaceX's valuation overtakes Tesla. But Lauren, there 477 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 3: are dangers for the US and NASA, you know, to 478 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 3: be so dependent on a single company like SpaceX, are 479 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 3: there not? 480 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 8: Well, I mean, that's kind of the entire point of 481 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 8: picking two providers for the commercial crew program, which is 482 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 8: what the Starliner program was a part of. NASA has 483 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 8: a term called dissimilar redundancy. It's the idea of having 484 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 8: two separate companies, two separate options that perform the same task. 485 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 8: In case, as kind of illustrated with this entire saga, 486 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 8: one of those options is no longer available, then you 487 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 8: have another option that likely doesn't rely on the same 488 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 8: parts the same manufacturers. Yes, ultimately, NASA doesn't want to 489 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 8: put all of its eggs in one basket because there 490 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 8: could come a time, for instance, when SpaceX has a 491 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 8: major failure. In fact, they did have a failure about 492 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 8: a month ago where one of their Falcon nine rockets, 493 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 8: which is been a fairly reliable rocket, suffered a failure 494 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 8: while in flight during a pretty standard starlink mission. Now, 495 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 8: because SpaceX launches so frequently, they were able to get 496 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 8: back to flight pretty quickly, but there may come a 497 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 8: time where that doesn't happen, and so the point of 498 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 8: having Boeing part of this program was to avoid that 499 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 8: exact scenario. The irony was that, you know, I spoke 500 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 8: to Lori Garver, who was the former Deputy administrator of 501 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 8: NASA back when they gave out these contracts. Boeing and 502 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 8: members of Congress lobbied pretty hard for Boeing to be 503 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 8: the only provider for this program. So it turned out 504 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 8: quite well for everyone in NASA in the long run 505 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 8: that they ultimately did pick two providers, because I don't 506 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 8: think anyone could have foreseen the scenario we would be 507 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 8: in back in twenty fourteen. 508 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 3: Now, speaking of glitches and SpaceX Lauren, there is a 509 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 3: mission of another sort that was supposed to launch today 510 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 3: called the Polarist Dawn, but it was delayed because the 511 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: setbacks they had. Tell us a little bit about that 512 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 3: mission and the significance of it, and walk us through 513 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 3: what problems have arisen here. 514 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 8: Yeah, the irony of all this is at a helium leak. 515 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 4: I believe delayed that mission. 516 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 3: But helium. Everyone' should struggling with helium. 517 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 8: It's a small molecule, to be fair, so it is 518 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 8: it is prone to leakage. No, we don't know the 519 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 8: severity of that delay, So I don't want to speculate 520 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 8: on that, but yes, this is weirdly coming at at 521 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 8: the same time as the Starliner decision. But it's called 522 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 8: the Plaris Dawn mission, and it's a flight that will 523 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 8: send a crew of four into a relatively deep orbit 524 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 8: around Earth. They're claiming it's the deepest orbit that we've 525 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 8: been to since the Apollo era, and they aim to 526 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 8: perform the first commercial spacewalk with new spacesuits that SpaceX 527 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 8: has developed. Now, you might those who follow SpaceX, you 528 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 8: might recall that SpaceX already has space suits, but the 529 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 8: ones that we see crews wear are pressure suits that 530 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 8: are really supposed to be used only when you launch 531 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 8: and when you descend back to Earth in case of 532 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 8: an emergency, in case there's a depressurization event during those 533 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 8: phases of flight. They really aren't meant to be used 534 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 8: long term, whereas this new suit is specifically geared toward 535 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 8: people walking space walking in the void of space, and 536 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 8: so it'll be a really interesting mission to watch. There 537 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 8: should be live streams, that's what they've promised us, so 538 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 8: once they do get off the ground, it will be 539 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 8: very cool. Also, flying on this mission is a familiar 540 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 8: SpaceX face. His name is Jared Isaacman. He's a billionaire 541 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 8: who launched a space with SpaceX in twenty twenty one 542 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 8: on the inspiration for mission. He bankrolled that mission and 543 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 8: brought along private civilians with him, and he's doing the 544 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 8: same here. But though this is more strictly geared towards 545 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 8: research and development, so it'll be an interesting one to watch. 546 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 3: I don't know about you, guys, but if somebody tells 547 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 3: me hours before the thing's about to take off that 548 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 3: there's a helium leak, there ain't no way in hell 549 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: I'm getting up there on that thing. But that's me. 550 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 3: I'm a coward. But explain to me for a second 551 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 3: what exactly makes a commercial spacewalk a commercial spacewalk, I e. 552 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 3: What separates it from other spacewalks. Because SpaceX is charging 553 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 3: these people for the privilege of going up in the 554 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 3: rocket and walking around in space. 555 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 8: I would say it's pretty much all aspects of it. 556 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 8: They are launching on a SpaceX vehicle. The crew Dragon 557 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 8: is a SpaceX Crew Dragon, and the suits, the Extra 558 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 8: Vehicular Activity EVA suit is. 559 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 4: A SpaceX creation. 560 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 8: NASA has definitely been a part of a lot of 561 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 8: the development you know when it comes to the Falcon 562 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 8: nine rocket and the crew Dragon, But in terms of 563 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 8: their involvement with this mission, this is a purely SpaceX mission, 564 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 8: So it was delayed. 565 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 3: Was supposed to go today the twenty seventh of August. 566 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 3: Do we know exactly when it will now go up? 567 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 8: They're saying no earlier than Wednesday, but we don't have 568 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 8: an exact time yet. So I think they need to 569 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 8: fix whatever the Helium League problem is and then we'll 570 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 8: have a better idea of when they want to go next. 571 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 3: Okay, very good, Bruce Lauren, thank you very much for joining. 572 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 4: Thanks so much. 573 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: Thanks. 574 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong, Naomi Shaven and 575 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 3: Rayhan Harmanci are senior editors. The idea for this very 576 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 3: show also came from Rayhan Blake Maples Handles Engineering, and 577 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 3: we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott our supervising 578 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 3: producers Magnus Henrickson. The elon Ing theme is written and 579 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 3: performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Era. Brendan Francis 580 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 3: Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the 581 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 3: head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to 582 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 3: our porter Joel Weber. I'm David Papadopolis. If you have 583 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 3: a minute, rate and review our show, it'll help other 584 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 3: listeners find us. See you next week.