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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg Sound On.

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Speaker 1: We have to have this debating conference about whether we

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Speaker 1: should be in places like Afghanis death. This Toban has changed.

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Speaker 1: We've got a hold of accountable will see how they govern.

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Speaker 1: Floomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top Names.

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Speaker 1: Infrastructural Bill or create jobs that we desperately need in

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Speaker 1: this country, good paying jobs. We need to go all

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Speaker 1: out through a green, renewable economy and all of the

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Speaker 1: infrastructures to make that happen. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe

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Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The plates are still spinning. Afghanistan, infrastructure, cybersecurity, COVID,

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Speaker 1: need I go on. They're all still in the air

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Speaker 1: this last full week of August and today on sound On,

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Speaker 1: we begin in Cobble, where the world's biggest airlift continues

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Speaker 1: ahead of next week's deadline for withdrawal. The Secretary of State,

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Speaker 1: Anthony B. Lincoln just gave us an update. We have

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Speaker 1: new numbers on how many Americans have been evacuated and

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Speaker 1: how many remain in a country that is now controlled

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Speaker 1: by the Taliban. We'll talk about it ahead with Bill Roggio,

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Speaker 1: Senior Fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies,

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Speaker 1: editor of the Long War Journal, and later our conversation

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Speaker 1: with the Chancellor of the University of Texas. Met today

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Speaker 1: with President Biden about enhancing the nation cybersecurity, a big

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Speaker 1: meeting at the White House. He was in the room

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Speaker 1: and the Pannel. Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis here for

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Speaker 1: the hour along with former New York Congressman Joe Crowley.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us today on Bloomberg Radio. One

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Speaker 1: of the biggest questions in Afghanistan has been how many

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Speaker 1: Americans are there, How many are in the country. The

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Speaker 1: government has had a difficult time figuring that number because

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Speaker 1: the State Department does not track movements as people travel.

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Speaker 1: Many people did not register with what was the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Embassy as they came and left the country. Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State Anthony B. Lincoln says they've taken a deep dive

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Speaker 1: on this and tried to answer this question today. Starting

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Speaker 1: on August fourteen, when our evacuation operations began, there was

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Speaker 1: then a population of as many as six thousand American

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Speaker 1: citizens in Afghanistan who wanted to leave. Over the last

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Speaker 1: ten days, Roughly four thousand, five hundred of these Americans

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Speaker 1: have been safely evacuated along with immediate family members. Over

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Speaker 1: the past twenty four hours, we've been in direct contact

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Speaker 1: with approximately five hundred additional Americans and provided specific instructions

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Speaker 1: on how to get to the airport safely. Briefing held

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Speaker 1: a short time ago, I hated, do you have to

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Speaker 1: make you do math on the way home? So we

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Speaker 1: started with six thousand, fift hundred remain and the US

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Speaker 1: government has been in touch with five hundred of them.

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Speaker 1: Lincoln says they are aggressively trying to reach the rest.

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Speaker 1: Since August, we've reached out directly to every American enrolled

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Speaker 1: with US in Afghanistan, often multiple times. Hundreds of SLAR officers,

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Speaker 1: locally employed staff here in Washington at dozens of embassies

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Speaker 1: and consulates around the world are part of what has

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Speaker 1: been an unprecedented operation. Lincoln vowing to continue helping Americans

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan after the US withdrawal, and with six days left,

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Speaker 1: we talked about what's happening on the ground in Kabble

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Speaker 1: with Bill Roggio, Senior fellow at the Foundation for the

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Speaker 1: Defense of Democracies, editor of the f d d S

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Speaker 1: Long War Journal. Bill, Welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of questions about what's happening on

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Speaker 1: the ground in Kabble. We all do. But you're writing

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Speaker 1: in the Long War Journal that the Taliban special forces

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Speaker 1: outfit known as Bodrey three has been providing security at

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Speaker 1: the airport in Cobble. Are they controlling the gates? Bill?

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Speaker 1: And who are these people? Body three one three is

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Speaker 1: a one part of what the Taliban calls its specials.

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Speaker 1: It was trained, um and armed and equipped by a

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Speaker 1: group known as the Khani Network. It's the most powerful

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Speaker 1: Taliban faction. The Khani Network is a listed as a

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Speaker 1: terrorist organization by the government. Leader Sarah Juden Hakhani is

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Speaker 1: a specially designated Global terrorists as well close ties to

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Speaker 1: Al Qaeda. The u N described him as an al

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Speaker 1: Qaeda leader and its latest thought sanctioned the Monitoring Report.

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Speaker 1: He is also Sara Juden is also a deputy of

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Speaker 1: mirror of the Taliban. He's the man behind the plan

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Speaker 1: for this this takeover of the country. I would argue

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Speaker 1: he's the most influential and powerful Taliban leader. This group.

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Speaker 1: It's a well trained, well equipped probably with the support

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Speaker 1: of the Pakistani state and it as far as what's

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Speaker 1: happening in Kabbal, it's controlling checkpoints and basically assigned security

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Speaker 1: for around the airport. It's controlling checkpoints to the airport

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Speaker 1: and out and outside. It's not controlling the gates itself.

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Speaker 1: That's under the control of the U. S Military and

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Speaker 1: Western military, but it's been assigned security for Kabbal. So

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Speaker 1: it tells you just how important the Khani's are in

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan and within the Taliban. What's happening in Kabbal is

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Speaker 1: probably the most important thing the Taliban right now. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of this chaos that we're seeing, I believe

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Speaker 1: is designed by the Taliban to humiliate the United States

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Speaker 1: and the West as they're trying to get their people out.

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Speaker 1: So this is a terrorist organization. This, this group you say,

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Speaker 1: is responsible for some complex suicide operations. These are not

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Speaker 1: good guys, Billy know, absolutely not. They They're part of

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Speaker 1: the what al Qaeda calls it's Martyrdom Brigades. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of elements of the special forces of which Padrey

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Speaker 1: three Went three a part of. But yes, it has

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Speaker 1: its fighters. Look, they were at the tip of the

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Speaker 1: spear of a lot of these operations, suicide assaults on

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Speaker 1: Afghan particularly in Helmand and Kandahar, when the Afghan military

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Speaker 1: was clinging to hold onto the city Badrey or the

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Speaker 1: special forces in general were assigned the task of softening

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Speaker 1: up the Afghan forces for the ultimate collapse. And these

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Speaker 1: are these are the men are our forces are are

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Speaker 1: interacting with Bill. We're increasing flights and evacuations every day.

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Speaker 1: The numbers are impressive, but getting to the airport remains

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Speaker 1: a major challenge. John Kirby, the spokesman for the Pentagon, said,

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Speaker 1: not every checkpoint is manned the same way. They're not

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Speaker 1: all aware of the protocol. And now that we're you know,

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Speaker 1: we're thinking of this bodary group, it makes you wonder

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Military is constantly being called to help

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Speaker 1: credential people through these gates. This sounds very tenuous. Still,

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Speaker 1: it is very tenuous. And I think that the fact

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Speaker 1: that you haven't yet that we're aware of had American

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Speaker 1: citizens kidnapped or killed in the streets of cobble is

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Speaker 1: an indication that the Taliban wants this organized chaos to

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Speaker 1: exist and would be easy for them to detain and

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Speaker 1: either kidnap or execute American citizens. That certainly isn't off

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Speaker 1: the table for them, particularly if their Taliban are serious

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Speaker 1: about about not allowing that August thirty first headline to happen.

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Speaker 1: And think about this, I mean, do you if the

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Speaker 1: US wants out by August, it has to start drawing

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Speaker 1: down now, all of this while conducting an extremely complex

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Speaker 1: operation to get as many people out at the deadline.

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Speaker 1: And you know, President Biden is basically said he trusts

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Speaker 1: the Taliban to help us, and we're trusting, literally trusting

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Speaker 1: terrorists who are involved in suicide operations throughout Afghanistan to

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Speaker 1: provide security for American citizens as they get to the airport.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you, Bill lastly about members of

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Speaker 1: the Afghan Army, which well, I guess doesn't exist any longer,

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Speaker 1: but members who are still putting up a fight against

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Speaker 1: the Taliban, specifically a pocket of resistance in Pans your province.

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Speaker 1: You've been writing about that. How large is this group

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Speaker 1: and is the US doing anything to support them? Is

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Speaker 1: this one of the most underreported stories of the last month. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it certainly is one of the biggest stories

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Speaker 1: that I'm attempting to follow it's very difficult to Panshare

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Speaker 1: is a hotbed of resistance to the Taliban prior that

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Speaker 1: has been made the core of the Northern Alliance right now,

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Speaker 1: But back then they had a province called Botishat in

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Speaker 1: the northeast that was their lifeline to the outfit side world.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Pansher is surrounded. Um, there's I saw a

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Speaker 1: report that they have twenty thousand fighters within the province.

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Speaker 1: The militias have organized. They were a group that didn't

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Speaker 1: turn over its weapons after after you know, the bond

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Speaker 1: agreement in early two thousand. They refused because they weren't

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Speaker 1: left out of the government. Think of it as a

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Speaker 1: mountain fortress. You know, it's very few. Look at videos.

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Speaker 1: You walk at the opening of the past, single lane

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Speaker 1: in with the river, so it's easily defensible. The question

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Speaker 1: is can they hold out now? Not only is it

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Speaker 1: the people of Pansher that are organized, but Um roll

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Speaker 1: of solid who previously was the vice president of Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: and whose named himself president by the constitution. He is correct. Um.

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Speaker 1: He also led to what was known as the National

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Speaker 1: Director of Security, which was basically there's d I, A

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Speaker 1: and FBI all rolled up in one there in their

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Speaker 1: domestic intelligence and foreign intelligence agency. So he has a

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Speaker 1: deep rolodex and about ten thousand or so the remnants

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Speaker 1: of the Afghan army that didn't surrender to the Taliban,

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Speaker 1: that that consolidated in areas just outside of Punsure. They're

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Speaker 1: under his command soldiers. It is. And and look, the

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Speaker 1: United States is not recognizing him. I'm not aware of

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Speaker 1: any support. It's possible ce I A might be providing support,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it is. I mean, if you think about it, now,

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Speaker 1: look the force inside times here that's going to be

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Speaker 1: at the that's sort of there. Uh, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: garrison force. That's what they need to defend the province.

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Speaker 1: But he sala is battling Taliban as we speak outside

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Speaker 1: in district outside of pans Here to try and expand

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Speaker 1: the bubble around him. He's having some problems. He's in

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Speaker 1: need in need of support. It's a long shot, but

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Speaker 1: it's the best shot that Afghans have if they want

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Speaker 1: to maintain resistance to the Taliban. But it's vital that

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Speaker 1: they extend a lifeline to the outside world, and the

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Speaker 1: outside world supports him. But Bill will will they not

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Speaker 1: at some point be overwhelmed. Is that where the last

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Speaker 1: stand will take place? Panjier Province. It's that's the question,

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Speaker 1: right That's what we're that's what I'm following now to see,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's possible. Look, we saw a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: you know, do the people of Pantier want to be

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Speaker 1: taken over militarily by the Taliban? Um? Will they fight

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Speaker 1: to the end to hold their province? I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: that's that Those are the questions where we're asking right now.

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Speaker 1: You know again it's it's it's the odds are very

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Speaker 1: very long for the for the people of pans Here

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Speaker 1: and and solace forces to resist the Taliban, But they

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Speaker 1: do have a good place to start from. Pancre is

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Speaker 1: an easily defendable province. If the Taliban tries to move

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Speaker 1: in militarily, they're going to take thousands upon thousands of casualties.

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Speaker 1: So the Taliban right now is trying to negotiate some

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Speaker 1: type of end to it. But the leaders of Aghman

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Speaker 1: Shahmasuds sons is those things. Also. Amansud is the man

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Speaker 1: who was the leader of the Northern Alliance UM and

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Speaker 1: he was assassinated by al Qaeda by suicide bombers two

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Speaker 1: days prior to nine eleven UM. So they're they're talking

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Speaker 1: a good game right now. They're saying the fight at

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Speaker 1: the end, the well surrendered to Aliban, but after we

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Speaker 1: witnessed its you know, anything's pops possible. This is an

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Speaker 1: incredibly important part of the story and we'd like to

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Speaker 1: stay in touch with you as you learn more. Bill,

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Speaker 1: thanks for the insights today. Bill Roggio, Senior Fellow at

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Speaker 1: the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. You can read

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Speaker 1: his work at the f d d S Long War Journal.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Bill, thank you very much. Much will be

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Speaker 1: written about what's happening right now in Cobble, thousands of

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Speaker 1: American troops in harm's way as the US prepares to

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Speaker 1: leave the country. The Secretary of State, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: overstate the complexity and the danger of this effort. We're

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Speaker 1: operating a hostile environment in the city and country now

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Speaker 1: controlled by the Taliban, with the very real possibility of

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Speaker 1: an isis K attack. You're listening to Bloomberg you sound

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Speaker 1: on with Joe Matthew on blue Bird Radio to think

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Speaker 1: thousands of former Afghan Army soldiers are still fighting outside

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Speaker 1: Panjier Province, the resistance, and based on what we heard

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Speaker 1: there from Bill Raggio, they could be fighting for some time.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring in the sound on panel today. Bloomberg Politics

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Speaker 1: contributor Rick Davis is with us along today with former

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Speaker 1: New York Congressman former Democratic Caucus Chair in the House

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Speaker 1: Joe Crowley. Welcome to both of you. Rick, I feel

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Speaker 1: like we're not making enough out of this this band

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Speaker 1: of holdouts here in Pansier. Should the US military be

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Speaker 1: helping them or do you believe, like Bill said, the

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Speaker 1: CIA may already be. Well, I'm sure they have long

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Speaker 1: standing relationships. These are the guys who helped us originally

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Speaker 1: with the fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. So there's

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Speaker 1: a long history of cooperation with U. S military and

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Speaker 1: especially the CIA who really ran that operation with the

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Speaker 1: Northern Alliance. And so this is an extremely well known

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Speaker 1: group deep routes, uh, you know, getting intelligence and military

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Speaker 1: support work. And so I have no doubt that we're

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Speaker 1: in touch with these guys, and they have a really

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Speaker 1: admirable fighting team, as you heard in the previous interview,

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Speaker 1: you know, in in excess of twenty troops, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a stronghold in the northern area. Now the tal

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Speaker 1: band's got his hands full trying to, you know, now

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Speaker 1: take over and run a country and get us out

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Speaker 1: of there. But these are the guys who are going

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Speaker 1: to be sticking around giving a hard time because if

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Speaker 1: you hear from a suit that they want to fight

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Speaker 1: to the end, they're gonna fight to the end. Wow.

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Speaker 1: Joe Crowley, welcome back. I'm glad you're here. We haven't

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Speaker 1: had a chance to talk to you since all of

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Speaker 1: this madness began on the ground in Afghanistan, and i'd

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Speaker 1: like to get your your more broad reaction to what's

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Speaker 1: going on here in the effort to evacuate all these Americans.

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Speaker 1: But what do you make of this fighting force that

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Speaker 1: Rick and Bill were just talking about? Could this create

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Speaker 1: uh an element of resistance that we could continue using

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Speaker 1: after we leave. Well, I think it's any question that

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Speaker 1: that's good news. I think most of Americans would agree.

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Speaker 1: But the real questions, I guess is really what what

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Speaker 1: what support from the world they could uh they would

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Speaker 1: need to sustain that, and whether or not there's going

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Speaker 1: to be a will to do that beyond the clandestine

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Speaker 1: support of intelligence agencies like the CIA. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: at large. I mean, this is an incredibly a tragic

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Speaker 1: situation in any respects, but not entirely unexpected. I think

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Speaker 1: when you see what's happening on the ground there today,

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Speaker 1: the one of the greatest you know, UM missions to

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Speaker 1: to to to to rescue tens of thousands of people,

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Speaker 1: probably the history of our of our world and um

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Speaker 1: and and and and a brave effort by our our

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Speaker 1: American military on on the ground and their presence there

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Speaker 1: to save Americans as well as those who are loyal

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Speaker 1: to the US throughout this twenty years. Joe, I know

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Speaker 1: you're not in the Democratic leadership on Capitol Hill right now,

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Speaker 1: but you were quite recently, and I wonder what your

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Speaker 1: impressions are of the way the Biden administration has handled this.

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Speaker 1: Would you be a critic right now or would you

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Speaker 1: be one of the Democratic lawmakers defending Joe Biden. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that there's always room for criticism, um, and

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Speaker 1: I think there will be a great deal of criticism,

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Speaker 1: uh and constructive criticism, I hope as well. In terms

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Speaker 1: of what transpired here, I do think, um, I agree

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Speaker 1: with the with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I voted to

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Speaker 1: go into Afghanistan after not eleven um. And but I

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Speaker 1: also voted against the surge because I didn't believe that uh,

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Speaker 1: the the mission creep that had entered to develop a democracy,

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Speaker 1: and all the other things that good intentioned um were possible,

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Speaker 1: and certainly the the at the efense of American military

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Speaker 1: men women in particular at all the coalition forces uh

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Speaker 1: and so um, you know this is never going to

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Speaker 1: be no matter what happened. And I think it's extraordinary

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Speaker 1: that the tens of thousands of people that have been

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Speaker 1: evacuated have been done so uh and so far without

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Speaker 1: the loss of American life. Uh. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: an important aspect as well. But as I said before

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Speaker 1: that every time to fully investigate and look at this,

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Speaker 1: and I think we shall see the big differences that

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Speaker 1: Democrats themselves will be as self critical as Republicans will

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Speaker 1: be of democrats. Rick, we're down to fifteen hundred Americans

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Speaker 1: were in touch with five hundred of them, I believe,

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Speaker 1: is what we heard today from the Secretary of State. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's a smaller number than a lot of people may

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Speaker 1: have thought based on the fact that we're flying thousands

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Speaker 1: out per day. Does it sound realistic to you today,

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Speaker 1: and I could ask you this every day until the

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Speaker 1: middle of next week, that that we actually can get

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Speaker 1: those people out. Well, I think that it makes sense

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Speaker 1: that we can move that many people if we can

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Speaker 1: get our hands on them. If they're scattered around the country,

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Speaker 1: is going to be very difficult to get them to

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Speaker 1: the airport and out in in the time that's left

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Speaker 1: available who the military between now in August thirty one.

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Speaker 1: That being said, it once the troops leave, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean we lose our capacity to bring equipment into that

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Speaker 1: country in an x filtrate American citizens, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that will remain an important priority for this administration. So

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Speaker 1: even though we've got this deadline and we have a

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Speaker 1: pretty good number of what it takes, I don't think

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Speaker 1: that that the effort ends on August thirty one. I

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Speaker 1: would say that under counts the tens of thousands of

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Speaker 1: Afghan allies who have worked for US and fought alongside

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Speaker 1: of us, who are trying to get out of the country.

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Speaker 1: And that is still an enormous task that the military

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Speaker 1: are trying to perpetuate. Joe, We'll talk about this more

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Speaker 1: later on in the hour. How worried. Are you about

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Speaker 1: seeing all the Americans get out and and are we

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Speaker 1: essentially giving up on getting all the Afghan allies out

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Speaker 1: by next week? No, I don't think so. I think Uh.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I'm I please that we have been

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Speaker 1: able to evacuate as many people as we have. And

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Speaker 1: I agree with Rick that I don't think the US

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Speaker 1: government is giving up on extracting anyone. Um, the thing

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Speaker 1: that we can get our hands on, that we can

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Speaker 1: make happen. Um. You know that. I think that there

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Speaker 1: are going to do There are and there are going

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Speaker 1: to be other avenues that which we will be able

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Speaker 1: to extract folks wanted the extracted from Afghanistan. That's my

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Speaker 1: my hope and my belief. There's been a string of

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Speaker 1: attacks that brought us to this moment. We've talked about

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Speaker 1: them over the past year. Attacks on our infrastructure, including

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Speaker 1: the Colonial pipeline, how about JBS, the food processor, as

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Speaker 1: well as software and cloud providers like Microsoft, Solar Winds

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Speaker 1: largely perpetrated as I read on the terminal by Cyberg

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Speaker 1: groups based in Russia and China. And the President has

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Speaker 1: pushed back on this, at least verbally saying at the

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Speaker 1: G seven not that long ago that the US would

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Speaker 1: respond with a forceful response, whether this is a state

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Speaker 1: player or some kind of rogue. That's what brought us

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Speaker 1: to the big meeting today, urging CEOs from around a

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Speaker 1: series of industries, including big tech apples. Tim Cook was there,

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Speaker 1: Sundar Perchie from Google, Andy Jassey from Amazon. Also big

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Speaker 1: names from banking Jamie Diamonds in the room. Imagine the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Bank of America, Brian moynihan. J. B. Milliken

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Speaker 1: was with them, the Chancellor of the University of Texas

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Speaker 1: system as the President tried to get input from around

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Speaker 1: the spectrum here to essentially create a collaboration. Chancellor, welcome

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Radio. It's great to have you. Did anything

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Speaker 1: concrete come from this today or was this the start

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Speaker 1: of a conversation? Well, I think it's a continuing conversation

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Speaker 1: that each of the sectors you mentioned are quite interested in.

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Speaker 1: And the President talked to the group about the importance

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Speaker 1: of hardening our cyber security defenses in all sectors and

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Speaker 1: and sharing critical information among sectors to help us all

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Speaker 1: protect assets. On the skills we need to build um.

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Speaker 1: There's a huge supply demand gap in our workforce today

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Speaker 1: and how we can increase the number of professionals trains

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Speaker 1: for that workforce and also diversify it so that we

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Speaker 1: can increase the pipeline. All these were UM subjects that

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Speaker 1: were discussed. There were I think some important commitments made,

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Speaker 1: but this was an important conversation among different sectors that

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Speaker 1: need to work well together so that so that we're

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Speaker 1: meeting our goals. What's the biggest threats for you? And

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Speaker 1: I ask you that knowing that you've got thousands of

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Speaker 1: students each with their own pipe coming into their dorm rooms.

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Speaker 1: You've got, of course classrooms that are that are online

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Speaker 1: in dealing with a lot of issues as well. But

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Speaker 1: it's got to be difficult to control, Chancellor, with so

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Speaker 1: many people coming and going on campus. Well, it's that

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Speaker 1: way at a large university system like the University of Texas,

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Speaker 1: is that way at large businesses and even a mom

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Speaker 1: on top shops. You know, the greatest vulnerability that we

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Speaker 1: may have is individual users who are not U savvy

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Speaker 1: enough prepared enough for uh an environment where there are

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Speaker 1: people trying to uh ack their systems and get into

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Speaker 1: their systems. UM. So one of the things that was

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Speaker 1: discussed is the need for a sort of cybersecurity kind

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Speaker 1: of hygiene program that everybody would be UM have at

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Speaker 1: least a sort of threshold level of learning and skills

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Speaker 1: to be aware of what the threats are and to

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Speaker 1: operate accordingly when they're on the internet. But I have

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Speaker 1: to say that for us, and probably for most businesses,

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Speaker 1: the greatest threat is really UM outside actors UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: bombarding our networks, trying to find any way to get

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Speaker 1: in UM because of the attractiveness of the kind of

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Speaker 1: intellectual property that a very large research enterprise has access to.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel like you have what you need? Were

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Speaker 1: you sharing ideas on what's working for you and tell

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Speaker 1: us about the talent shortage you're you're training the next

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Speaker 1: wave of soldiers who are going to deal with this.

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Speaker 1: So this is one of the most important things to

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Speaker 1: me is we've got a short term problem and a

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Speaker 1: long term problem. We've got a gap that's estimated a

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Speaker 1: five hundred thousand jobs open today in this country and

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Speaker 1: cybersecurity that that that aren't filled. But we are going

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Speaker 1: to have a problem over the long term as well

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Speaker 1: unless we do a number of things, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, having more traditional degree programs and graduating a

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Speaker 1: larger number of students is one thing. But to deal

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Speaker 1: with the short term problem and really to deal with

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Speaker 1: the kinds of of entry level professional jobs that are available,

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Speaker 1: we need to think outside the box and provide money

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Speaker 1: more of the short term credentials where we can upskill

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Speaker 1: existing workforce or provide short courses. The University of Texas

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Speaker 1: Austin has a cyber security boot camp for twenty four weeks.

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Speaker 1: It's that kind of thing that is going to allow us,

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Speaker 1: I think, to meet the short term gabs uh, but

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Speaker 1: also satisfied what the real workforce needs are. We're talking

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Speaker 1: with J. B. Milliken, his chancellor of the University of

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Speaker 1: Texas system and still at the White House following the

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Speaker 1: big meeting today with President Biden. Can I ask you

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Speaker 1: what the President's tone was in this meeting and do

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Speaker 1: you have a sense and I say this with with

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Speaker 1: all due respects JB. Does he understand the technological side

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Speaker 1: of this. We're debating everything from bitcoin to hacking in

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Speaker 1: Washington and a lot of lawmakers, a lot of politicians

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Speaker 1: don't always quite have a sense of what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I think the President does have an understanding of what

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Speaker 1: the challenge is and what important role government plays is

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Speaker 1: and he has a a great team around him that

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Speaker 1: is on top of this subject. And we met with

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Speaker 1: half a dozen Cabinet secretaries today who were involved in this,

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Speaker 1: who see different perspectives of the of the broad problem

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Speaker 1: of UH protecting ourselves in a in a dangerous world

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Speaker 1: where cybersecurity is more and more important every day. So

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a good discussion, of serious discussion

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Speaker 1: and the right kinds of topics were on the table.

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Speaker 1: I have less than a minute, Chancellor, what happens next?

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Speaker 1: Is there going to be a follow up on this?

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Speaker 1: Have you guys scheduled the next meeting? There? There was

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Speaker 1: talk at the end of the day about at least

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Speaker 1: virtually coming back in a couple of months to see

432
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: how the big subjects that were addressed have been tackled

433
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: and what progress was men is being made, and I

434
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: hope that will be the case. UM, we will certainly

435
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: be making significant advances at the University of Texas system

436
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: in ways that we can diversify the workforce and add

437
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of educated UH cyber professionals through a

438
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: network of universities nationwide. Chancellor I'm sorry we're out of time,

439
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: but a fascinating peak inside that meeting. J B. Milliken,

440
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us on Bloomberg. You're listening

441
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Maview on Bloomberg Radio.

442
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: Two US congressman make an unannounced trip to Afghanistan. No,

443
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: this is not the setup for a bad joke. As

444
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: we learned this morning, the Congressman Seth Moulton, Democrat from Massachusetts,

445
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: and Peter Mayer, Republican from Michigan, both touchdown in Cobble

446
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: to take a look at what was going on there

447
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: on the ground. Seth Moulton, who was on this program

448
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: just a week ago, tweets today with Representative Mayor I

449
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: visited Kabbal Airports to conduct oversight on the evacuation. Witnessing

450
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: our young marines and soldiers at the gates navigating a

451
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: confluence of humanity as raw and visceral as the world

452
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: has ever seen, was indescribable. Both of these men, our

453
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: veterans Molten, as you heard in a very emotional interview

454
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: here a week ago, a marine who served four combat

455
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: tours in Iraq, both very concerned about the well being

456
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: in the future of our allies in Afghanistan who have

457
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: helped Americans as interpreters, drivers, contractors for the last twenty years,

458
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: many of whom are struggling to get out of the country.

459
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: Big reaction today made a big splash here inside the Beltway,

460
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: and the two were largely condemned for making that trip,

461
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: for taking resources from the airlift that are so badly needed,

462
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: although the Republican leader in the House, Kevin McCarthy, was

463
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: asked about it and seemed to defend the two members

464
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: of Congress. These are two individuals who I didn't know

465
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: transpired that they went until after they were there. Um,

466
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: they're both veterans, They're both frustrated. They have an administration

467
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: that won't tell them the answers to how many Americans

468
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: are left for those Afghans that actually probably worked with

469
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: them and helped them, saying I understand their frustration. Reaction

470
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: was a bit different from the Speaker of the House,

471
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi. The most important thing right now is for

472
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: us to have a strong US to have a strong

473
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: military presence at the airport and the opportunity for people

474
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: to get to the airport. It is not in furtherance

475
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: of that strength. For us to have members going over there,

476
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: the resources necessary to facilitate their visit and to protect

477
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: them was an opportunity cost of of what we needed

478
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: to do to be evacuating as many people as possible.

479
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: So this, this is deadly serious. Do not want members

480
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: to go. Want to hear from the panel on this.

481
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: Blomberg's Politics contributor to Rick Davis back with us along

482
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: with former New York Congressman and former Democratic Caucus chair

483
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: Joe Crowley. Joe, I'm gonna start with you here. If

484
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: you are still helping to run the Democratic leadership in

485
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: the House, would you have condemned this trip? Well? I

486
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I do recognize that these are two veterans. They've served

487
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: their country honorably and well in iract um, and I

488
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: do think they are expressing the anguish that many of

489
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: our veterans are feeling in terms or the seeing um,

490
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: in terms of the extraction that's going on in Afghanistan.

491
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: But I also would say that it's complicated, and it

492
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: helps it actually is making it any more complicated in

493
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: terms of the evacuation and that effort, and in terms

494
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: of the timing of this. And I think someone exploited

495
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: for political reasons, as I think um Leana McCarthy was

496
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: doing just now. In terms of what you've played back,

497
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: you know these are It's a very complicated operation that's

498
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: going on right now, and uh, this is a distraction

499
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: at the very least. I know this isn't easy. There

500
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: may not be a right answer to this. Rick Seth

501
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: Molton went on to tweet as a long threat. We

502
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: did this visit in secret to reduce risks and impact

503
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: on the mission, and we assisted on leaving in a

504
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: plane that was not full of seat designated for crew,

505
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: so we did not take a seat from someone else.

506
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: Of course, there are other accommodations that must be made.

507
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure when the military learns that two members of

508
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: Congress are in country. You, of course, as we've already described,

509
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: went to Afghanistan a lot of times under various circumstances,

510
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: and I wonder if you think they did the right

511
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: thing here or this was wrong. Well, on the third

512
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: anniversary of the passing of John McCain, I must tell

513
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: John McCain's story. And nobody was in Afghanistan or Iraq

514
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: more than Senator John McCain, both in times of high

515
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: intense conflict and also during the downtime. And he did

516
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: that because he wanted to see with his own eyes

517
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 1: talk to the troops uh directly and to the commanders,

518
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: and in that way he could then be the best

519
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: legislator that he could. So the idea that we have

520
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: to regulate the conduct of elected officials by deciding where

521
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: and when they can go would have bristled John McCain.

522
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: In fact, there wasn't a single administration, Republican or Democrat

523
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: who didn't hear from John McCain about being limited on

524
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: where he could go and what he could do. And

525
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: so I think that we have to be a little careful, right,

526
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very difficult time. Neither one

527
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: of these members caused the crisis that we're now in,

528
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: and and this administration has not done a good job

529
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: of facilitating public disclosure of what's happening inside defence at

530
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: that airport. And so you know, I can't blame them

531
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: uh for going on a trip that I think is

532
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: probably important to the public disclosure. It'll be interesting to

533
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: see what they're able to tell us on their return.

534
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: But UH, the idea that UM UH two members are

535
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: going to be vastly criticized for having the interest to

536
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: go over there and put themselves at risk. I think

537
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: is a little bit over the top. I'm glad you

538
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: reminded us August two thousand eighteen, and you probably saw

539
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: the image Rick of Vice President Kamala Harris marketing the

540
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: anniversary at the monument in Vietnam three years after his death.

541
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: Was that handled the right way? Sure? I mean, it's

542
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: really kind of Vice President Harris to UH to visit

543
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: that memorial and and to tweet out what she did.

544
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: General Austin, the Secretary Defense, also was in Vietnam recently

545
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: and UH did a very similar thing. So honoring the

546
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: memory of an American hero, U is UH is appropriate

547
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: anytime day or night. Joe Prowley, what do you make

548
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: of what Rick just mentioned with regard to John McCain's

549
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: views on this? Should we set up a former a

550
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: formal codel between now and next Tuesday? I think it's

551
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: always the right thing. By the way, it was very

552
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: hardened to see the Vice President at the memorial and

553
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: always important to remember our heroes, as John McCain was

554
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: an American hero. UM. Uh. Look, I think that there's

555
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: gonna be plenty of time for codel's or investigations and

556
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: in terms of the the what is what is really

557
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: a very important role of Congress, And as I said before,

558
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: I think Democrats will be as robust as as Republicans

559
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: in terms of looking for answers. But right now, um,

560
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: the focus needs to be on the extraction, getting as

561
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: many Americans who want to leave the country out of

562
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: the country, and getting as many people as you possibly

563
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: can who helped us during these twenty years get out

564
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: of the country. That has to be job one and

565
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: focus right now. In my opinion, it was the seventeenth

566
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: of August to be specific, which is talking with our

567
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: producer Matt about when Seth Moulton was on the program

568
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: with us, and he spoke emotionally about his view feeling

569
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: helpless at that time with what was going on. As

570
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: a veteran someone who's not afraid to take responsibility for

571
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: my actions, I've been spending much of the last seventy

572
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: two hours racking my brain to think if there is

573
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: something more I could have done, something more I could

574
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: have done to force this debate in Congress, something I'm

575
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: more I could have done to convince the administration to

576
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: follow my advice and start this evacuation earlier, so we

577
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't see the chaos that's been unfolding at Kabbal Airport

578
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: over the last couple of days. I don't know an

579
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: answer to that, Joe. I don't know if there is

580
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: more I could do. But my point is that I'm

581
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 1: not afraid to ask that question, and I'm not afraid

582
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: to sit here a bit ashamed that I wasn't more

583
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: successful in helping the administration and helping Congress do the

584
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: right thing. Well, did we know he would get on

585
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: an airplane? You can hear that full interview, by the way,

586
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: if you go listen to the podcast again from the

587
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: seventeenth of August. Seth Malton goes on in the thread,

588
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: Washington should be ashamed of the position we put our

589
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: service members in, but they represent the best in America.

590
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: That's a lot to say right there. And Congressman Walton

591
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: used that word ashamed more than once Rich in that interview.

592
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: Do you agree? Yeah, Look, he feels very compelling about

593
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: his views. He's been an outspoken critic of both the

594
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: Trump and Biden administration's handling of Afghanistan. He's been consistent, right,

595
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: he does not see this as a political debate. He

596
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: sees this as a debate on American power and prestige

597
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: and and and the way to handle our our allies

598
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: and and he won't be satisfied with the conversation about

599
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: how many Americans were pulling out of Afghanistan. He he

600
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: also believes that the Afghanistani's who have fought alongside a

601
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: US deserve to get evacuated. And that's going to be

602
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: sure part of what he talks about on his return

603
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: to the United States. We should know that we did

604
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: invite Congress but malten to come back and talk to

605
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: us today, as our producer Christine reminds me, we will

606
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: continue to leave the invitation out there for him to

607
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: talk to us. Joe Crowley, does this speak to the

608
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: need for more veterans in Congress? Well, I will say this, uh,

609
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: I think all Americans share the frustration the position that

610
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: we are in twenty years on after nine eleven. And

611
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: keep in mind, we went into Afghanistan because they harbored

612
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: our enemy, those who are responsible for the attacks of

613
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: nine eleven. UH and being there for twenty years, what

614
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: I do agree with with is that we could be

615
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: there for forty or fifty or sixty years and it

616
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: would not change very much what was what was happening

617
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: on the ground today in terms of the acceptance of

618
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: democracy by the Tally Banner others within the country. And

619
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: so I do agree that getting out was the right

620
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: thing to do. It was never gonna be pretty no

621
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: matter what. Do I think it could have been better?

622
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: I do. I think there are there are there are

623
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: things that should have been done. It could have been done,

624
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: but what we have to deal with the reality right

625
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: now we're all frustrated. I do think that my son

626
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: now is in the Enabled Academy UM and they'll graduate

627
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: next year. I do think that that they bring an

628
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: experience UM, by myself is not a veteran. I think

629
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: that's an important experience we need all walks of life.

630
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: In Congress and ventions included former Congressman Joe Crowley, congratulations

631
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: to your son, and we thank him for his service.

632
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: And Rick Davis Bloomberg Politics contributor, speaking in the memory

633
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: today of the late Senator John McCain, Glad you spent

634
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: time with us on the fastest hour in politics. Where

635
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: does it go? I'm Joe Matthew meets you back here tomorrow.

636
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg,