1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Okay. This one is for the fans of cereal and 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: radiation too great taste that once upon a time m 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: I t said tastes great together. Yeah, there was some experimentation. 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: I don't really like it when my cereal glows and 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, makes me glow. I mean that could be fun, right, 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: That could be a branded activation, right like trolls maybe? Yeah? Uh, 7 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: plutonium bits. I'm just thinking what are different radioactive cereals 8 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: could be named? Which you're gonna hear in today's classic episode, 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: Folks is a true story a conspiracy too feed children 10 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: cereal in the nine and fifties, but it's not, thankfully, 11 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: the kind of cereal that you would see in a 12 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: grocery store today. From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, 13 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back 14 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 15 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 16 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: name is Noel. You call me Ben. You probably go 17 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: by a name as well. That makes this stuff they 18 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. I'm excited about this one today, guys, 19 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: because this is a deep cut and before we get 20 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: too into it, I want to extend and on air. 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: Thank you to our colleague and personal friend Josh Clark, who, 22 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: as he so often does, accidentally hit us to this. 23 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: Oh he posted it or mentioned it in an article 24 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, he's got a great blog that you 25 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: can check out right now if you wish about the 26 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: They call it the Coolest Stuff for best stuff we 27 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: read this week, and so it's if you've got time. 28 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: It's a it's a great place to go. Everybody here 29 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: how stuff works, as you might imagine, reads stuff constantly, 30 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: and as we found out about a very very strange 31 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: historical thing that we thought most folks in American abroad 32 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: wouldn't know about. And it starts with two entities that 33 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: ostensibly have nothing to do with each other. Yeah, it 34 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: feels like apples and tractors to me to just so 35 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: separate entities, or or like uh badgers and uh cheetos. Yeah, 36 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: hair brushes and hair brushes, or like or like asteroids 37 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: and venus fly traps and venus fly traps, exactly, two 38 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: things that don't seem like that makes sense together. So 39 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: what what what's the first one? The first one is 40 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 1: the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. You probably know this as 41 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: m I T. It was founded in eighteen sixty one. 42 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: This is so, this is an old institution that we're 43 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: talking about here, very prestigious. A lot of great thinkers 44 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: and makers have come out of this. Oh yeah, it's 45 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: been around for a long time. It's won all kinds 46 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: of prestigious awards, right, and uh, it's become home to 47 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: some of the world's imminent scientist, statesman and economists. Uh, 48 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: the guy who invented condensed soup went there. Twenty nine 49 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: alumni from M I T of one Nobel prizes. That's 50 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: pretty good. And no, you'll like this one especially. More 51 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: than one third of the nation of the U S 52 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: space flights have included M I T educated astronauts, and 53 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: NASA has chosen more M I T graduates to become 54 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: astronauts than graduates of any other private institution. Well, I 55 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: have a Space Camp shirt, so you're pretty much in. 56 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: And I just ordered myself a NASA trucker hat on Amazon, 57 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: so that should be arriving any day now. And I'm 58 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: about dating at a up and walking around town with 59 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: my Space Camp shirt ams hat on dude, speaking of that, 60 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: I found my picture of I think I sent it 61 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: to you my picture of my Space camp suit when 62 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: I was a little wee one, and I'm thinking about 63 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: putting on our Instagram. It's when it or at least 64 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: send it to me. I'm curious. So another another prestigious 65 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: fact about M I T that has nothing to do 66 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: with this show is that both hosts of Car Talk 67 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: attended M I T. Click and clack, click and out 68 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: of control. But anyway, you get the T L d R. 69 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: The quick and dirty of this is M I T 70 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: for centuries has been this amazing hub or seat of knowledge, innovation, wisdom, 71 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: and you know, the future of humanity, for scientific testing, 72 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: technology and all things above. And now for something completely different, Yeah, 73 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: completely and utterly different. So we have Thing A. Now 74 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: we're talking about Thing B, which is Quaker Oats. The 75 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: company that would become Quaker Oats actually formed in nineteen 76 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: o one when four oat mills, not oat meals. I 77 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: feel so bad that I actually wrote that joke in 78 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: the nels, and you even have a little ha there 79 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: to indicate that it's a joke, because some people might 80 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: not have known because it's not a good joke. So 81 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: these four mills, what make oats or mill oats? Rather um, 82 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: they combined merge, shall we say, into a single super mill. 83 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: That was the dawn of the oatmeal Tycoons, which is 84 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: a phrase that Ben loves for some reason. Why I 85 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: love it because it's an excellent phrase. Remember those old 86 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: video games that would be like roller coaster tycoon or uh, 87 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: I don't think they had all kinds of park tycoon. 88 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: I would love to play a game called oatmeal Tycoon. 89 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: I don't know what, you know what, Actually, I think 90 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: I like the idea of it more than the actual 91 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: thing would be pretty boring. For some reason. When I 92 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: think of an oatmeal flacon and I picture some sort 93 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: of fat cat smoking a cigar and a giant golden 94 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: tub full of oatmeal, I can totally see that. And 95 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: and maybe, uh, you know, maybe his cigar looks like 96 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: a spoon. I don't know. There a lot of questions 97 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, let's workshop this one, but um so yeah. 98 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: The original Quaker oats trademark began in eighteen seventy seven 99 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: when one of the founding Mills used a Quaker esque man. 100 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: You may know him sort of looks like a pilgrim, 101 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: like you may have been on the Mayflower. You know, 102 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: he's got a sort of a long white shocks of hair, 103 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: a mane, a bit of a mane, and a tall hat. Right, yeah, 104 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: he has Uh, he has that distinctive look that we 105 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: have come to associate with Quakers, whether fairly or unfairly. Uh. 106 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: The Quaker movement is still around here in the U. 107 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: S And abroad, and it's it's a group of very 108 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: kind people. And the whole idea of using that image 109 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: was that it just instilled trust in someone because there's 110 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: the quality is going to be perfection coming from these guys. Well, 111 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: I mean and and it is the very picture of wholesomeness. 112 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: And that's a word that's often associated with whole grains 113 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: and good foods, you know, healthy foods like that. They're 114 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: they're wholesome there, that's right, because because oates like this, 115 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: they're they're good for you, right Ben, Yeah, right, that's 116 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: the idea. They're nutritious. You'll hear, you'll hear some weird 117 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: stuff about the Quaker man, right. I love that we're 118 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: playing out the wholesome stuff. Nowadays, the company says that 119 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: he is just a it's not representing an actual person. 120 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: It's just a man who's dressed in Quaker garb, but 121 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: the earlier advertising in nineteen o nine identified him as 122 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: William Penn, the seventeenth century philosopher. But they, you know, 123 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: they later I guess rhet coons that is that the word? Yeah, 124 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: because it's evolved so much over time. We're talking about 125 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies, eighteen fifties, even when there was first starting out. 126 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: So got side tip ladies and gentlemen if you want 127 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: to if you want to impress your serial insider friends, 128 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: if you're in the know, they call him Larry. Yeah, yeah, 129 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: that's what that's like, the nickname. Anyhow, they started with 130 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: Quaker oats and people loved it. This whole Quaker thing 131 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: worked very well for them, caught on like gangbusters. Yeah, 132 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: and they and they began to grow into other areas, 133 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: right like wildfire gangbusters. Right. Yeah. So, for instance, they 134 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: started with other breakfast cereals, other food and drink products, 135 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: even into unrelated fields. For example, in nineteen sixty nine, 136 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: they bought Fisher Price, which many of many of us 137 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: listening may recognize as a toy company that's just running 138 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: the early early age market. Right now, there's telephones that 139 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: the clinky wheels and the face on it and any 140 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: of those like classic Toy Story toys that have been 141 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: animated in the Toy Story movies were probably originally made 142 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: by Fisher Price. Yeah, and so they owned that. The 143 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: Oatmeal Plays owned that for a while and then they 144 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: spun it off in the nineties, but they were also 145 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: involved with making film. Didn't see that one come in, 146 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: did you? Yeah? Before researching this, I had no idea 147 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: that Quaker Oats had financed Uh, Willy Wonka and the 148 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: chocolate factory. What that doesn't It doesn't seem like that, right, 149 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: But they they had a reason for this. Um, they 150 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to use some of the product 151 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: names they are used in the film to actually sell 152 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: it and leverage it that would become popular through the film. 153 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: They wanted to sell gop stoppers. Yeah. And then they 154 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: also in two formed US Games, a company that created 155 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: as Noel would say, video games for the Atari fifty two. 156 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: D Wow. They didn't do so well though to that 157 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: quicker guy's got his fingers and all kinds of different 158 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: stuff he's got, He's got his mits and all kinds 159 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: of oats, you know. Uh. In eighty three they bought 160 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: Van Camps being products and uh Stokely Van Camp and 161 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: then Gatorade and currently they're owned by PepsiCo. So in 162 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: their own way, they have also become quite successful. M 163 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: I T. Seat of Learning. Quaker Oats a global company 164 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: that started with oatmeal and then quickly cornered so many 165 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: other markets. As you can see, this company is a 166 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: very little in common until that is they joined forces. 167 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: And to really look at this, we need to look 168 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: at the history of competition between different companies and different 169 00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: products back in the day. So, uh, nineteen forties, let's say, 170 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: let's go back there after its founding. It's doing really well, 171 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: expanding its markets, going to new places in the United States, 172 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: going all across the Great Lands. UM. And it's trying 173 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: to dominate overall the cereal industry. What you eat for breakfast, 174 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: it should be this. Well, their chief rival was an 175 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: outfit that you may also know called cream of Wheat, Right, 176 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: you've heard of this. It's a wheat I think it's 177 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: simolina product that's kind of similar to oatmeal, UM, but 178 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: it's a little creamier. It's a little creamier. Um. But 179 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: they were they were getting big too around that time. 180 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: But it wasn't their only antagonist. Well, another antagonist here 181 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: was science, because at the time, a widely publicized study 182 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: actually found that plant based grains contained an acid called 183 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: fight tate, which could actually hinder your digestive system um 184 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: in a way that would keep minerals and vitamins like 185 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: cow semen iron from being properly digested. A right. Yes, 186 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: And there's another less obvious point here. Longtime listeners, you 187 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: know what's happening concurrently in the US at this time. 188 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: This hubbub occurs in the nineteen forties. It's a few 189 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: years after bacon inexplicably becomes a fundamental part of the 190 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: American breakfast? Was it inexplicably to say? That's a great point? No, 191 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: because we explicate it uh fairly handily in some earlier episodes. 192 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: The first episode e Yes our podcast on Edward Berne's 193 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: a k A. The Father's Spen a k a. The 194 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: Father pr A, the father of Bernet sauce a, the 195 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: nephew of Sigmund Freud. Uh. So he was We won't 196 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: get too into detail about this, but he was tasked 197 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: by a plate An outfit called the beech Nut Company 198 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: to popularize some leftover port product that they had and 199 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: he used some fairly clever but indirect methods to make 200 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: bacon a popular thing, because beforehand, people maybe a bowl 201 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: of boo meal, maybe a croissant and some fruit coffee. 202 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,719 Speaker 1: I would like in it to the way, all of 203 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: a sudden, all of these taco bell products have like 204 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: Doritos in them. You know, I think it's sort of 205 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: like a marketing ploy to get rid of all the 206 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: surplus doritos. That's my theory. I don't know if that's 207 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: true or not, but you know, this is a pretty 208 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: brilliant example of like, hey, let's take up meat scraps 209 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: and turn them into meat gold. Yeah. I think about 210 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: what bacon is, right, It's essentially fat back, it's the 211 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: fatty stuff. And let's also think about how different bacon 212 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: in the US is to bacon in Europe or bacon 213 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: in other parts of the world. And the way he 214 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: got it done right was he got doctors to discuss 215 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: how important protein is. Right, he had a study. I 216 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: hope you can hear the air quotes. I'm making, ladies 217 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: and gentlemen a study exactly. So, so we've got we've 218 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: got Quaker oats and they're vying for competition the serial market. 219 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: They have an enemy in this publicized study, and people 220 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: are worried about nutrition, but they're also thinking, well, bacon's 221 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: just better. They needed a plan, prefably, not just an 222 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: ad campaign, but something that felt more objective, a study, 223 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: if you will, to contradict the other study floating around 224 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist. And they had a stroke of luck. 225 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: So they found out that the first entity we discussed, 226 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: m I T was going to be studying nutrition in 227 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: the human body. That's the thing. Yes, So you know, 228 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: if they hear about this, somebody in one of their 229 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: offices just went, eureka, we're doing this. They jumped at 230 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: the chance to fund the research that m I T 231 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: is trying to do with this, because they thought this 232 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: was going to be exactly what they needed, right, to 233 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: provide satisfactory evidence not just of cereals been fits in general, 234 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: but of Quaker oats in particular, rather than those creeps 235 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: that cream of wheat or beach nut. Yeah. I don't, 236 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't think they were creeps. 237 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: Just I thought it sounded good. So they needed a 238 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: group of people, right, They needed an experiment and a 239 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: control group. They needed ideally some young guinea pigs. As 240 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: Mill said, this was especially touted as nutritious for the 241 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: young and the growing. They needed kids would sign on willingly. 242 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: They needed kids who wouldn't ask questions, and we'll learn 243 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: more about those kids they selected right after a word 244 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. From approximately 245 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: fifty seven to seventy three children from the Walter E. 246 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: For Old State School were recruited to join what was 247 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: referred to as the Fernalde Science Club, which was at 248 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: m I Team UM. Fernalde was a home for the 249 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: quote say is it really really nasty? Term feeble minded? 250 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: That refers to what we would now describe as being 251 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: developmentally disabled kids UM, and in many of these cases, 252 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: kids who simply have been abandoned by their parents. That's 253 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: an important factor here. The children at the fern Old School, 254 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: we're not all disabled in some way. They I don't 255 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: know the politically correct terms for this. UM. The terminology 256 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: that's used in the research we were done like that 257 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: was written in the nineteen forties, is much less than UM. 258 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: I would say satisfactory from a politically correct standpoint. That 259 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: is an important factor here. Not all of the children 260 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: were disabled. Many of them were just abandoned or you know, 261 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: they needed a place to stay. So children with special needs, 262 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: whether those needs are due to a developmental factor or 263 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: whether they're due to a social factor such as being abandoned. 264 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: So for these kids who are, let's face it, folks 265 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: having a rough time in life, Uh, this m I T. 266 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: Science Club seems like a windfall. It grants the children's 267 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: special privileges. They go on field trips, they get neat 268 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: toys and swag like Mickey Mouse watches, for example, and 269 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: they get special events. You get to go to baseball 270 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: games and met socks and stuff. They also got nutritious 271 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: meals all the time. Yeah, at very controlled intervals and 272 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: very high in calcium and iron. Talk about talk about 273 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: a catbird seat, right, what the catbird seat? It's a 274 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: good seat? Have you you've heard that phrase? Right? Of course? 275 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: I don't know this the catbird seat. I mean, I 276 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: don't know what. We don't know what it means. It's 277 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 1: just it means it's here in the best place. It's 278 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: a good situation. I'm going to say it's a cat indoors. 279 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm assuming, oh they can grab birds maybe, or maybe 280 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: it's outdoors on a seat, digically able to catch birds. Okay, yeah, 281 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: well maybe I should also learn the etymology of these 282 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: colloquialisms plus about them now, all right, But but the 283 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: point is it would have been. It seems like it 284 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: would ostensibly be a great thing for these disadvantaged children. However, 285 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: not all was as it seemed. See here's the thing, 286 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: you guys. Uh, some of these children were unable to 287 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: read for various reasons when they were told to sign 288 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: and consent to joining the Science Club. Also, the children 289 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: who actually had parents or guardians to uh to consult 290 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: about this, well, they weren't very they weren't much better 291 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: off because what was sent to them who wasn't exactly 292 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: truthful in every case. Yeah, it wasn't as transparent as 293 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: one would imagine. And we have a quote to prove it. 294 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: And this is an excerpt from one of the notes 295 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: written home to the parents of a child where Westing 296 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: permission for them to join the Science Club. And these 297 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: letters evolved over time, as because we're talking about a 298 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: wide range of dates here, from forties to the fifties. 299 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: But this is just one little snapshot of one of 300 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: those letters. I'll give us a go a few fellas, 301 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: don't mind um quote. We are considering the selection of 302 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: a group of our brighter patients, including name of child, 303 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: to receive a special diet rich in irons and vitamins, 304 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: or as I like to call them, vitamins for a 305 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: period of time. These studies will cause no discomfort or 306 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: change in the patient other than a possible improvement. I 307 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: hope that you have no objection that your son or 308 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: daughter is voluntarily participating in this study. And again that 309 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: is an exert from a sample permission letter sent home 310 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: to the parents or guardians of these children. You have 311 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: to love the phrasing right as I hope that you 312 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: have no objection that your son is voluntarily participating means 313 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: it's already happening. That's already So what M. I. T 314 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: Did not tell anyone, including the parents, including the children, 315 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: and maybe even the functionaries at the state school, was 316 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: that the calcium and iron that they were feeding to 317 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: these science club participants was irradiated. Radioactive calcium and iron 318 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: functioned like tracers, so the scientists could watch the progression 319 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: of these radioactive substances through the children's body during the 320 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: digestion process. And it should be noted that I mean 321 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: today there are radioactive materials are used in this way. 322 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: For example, a stress test, patients are injected with radioactive dye. 323 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: They can then track the movement of it through their 324 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: bloodstream in order to see that everything's you know, in 325 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: tiptop shape, what have you. But this was not this 326 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: was not the same as that. This was much more 327 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: of a experimental approach. Yeah. And also, if you're signing 328 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: up nowadays for that kind of test, you know what's happening. 329 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: You're not You're not being told you're joining a fun 330 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: club for baseball games. You know what's happening. There's it's 331 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: a usually one or two times that's going to happen 332 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: in you know what, maybe a follow up, you have 333 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: to do it again. So the dosing that you're getting 334 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: is fairly low. We have a specific example of two 335 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: of these tests. Yeah. The first, the first, they would 336 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: say a battery of tests occurred in ninety that's when 337 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: seventeen boys eight this you know, radioactive iron in their meals. 338 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: It was an isotope that apparently can harm blood and 339 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: specifically the organ the spleen, which we don't think about 340 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: very often. Um, and and the whole thing here again 341 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: is dosages, right, That's what you have to worry about 342 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: with anything like this. So they were the boys were 343 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: being exposed to between five hundred and forty four two 344 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: one thousand, twenty four miller rems of radiation over the 345 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: course of seven different meals. And just to compare this 346 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: dosage with the amount of radiation the three of us 347 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: or anyone listening might receive throughout the course of a 348 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: year in the US. In the US in particular, that 349 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: would be around three h miller rams from all the 350 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: different natural, naturally occurring sources of radiation sunlight, bananas, things like, yeah, exactly. Uh. 351 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: And then also the team calculated calcium digestion by adding 352 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: radioactive radioactive forms calcium to the breakfast milk of nineteen 353 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: boys and this time each kid only at one radioactive 354 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: meal and expose their bones to thirty five milli rims 355 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: of radiation. By comparison, again, during their lifetimes, most Americans 356 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: will receive a hundred and ten miller rams of radiation 357 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: on their bones from the fallout of nuclear weapon testing. 358 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: So the next question you probably have is how did 359 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: people learn about that? Because the passages that we just 360 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: told you, with the details of some of these illegal, 361 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: unethical test came to light through US through quality journalism. Yes, 362 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: we learned about it from Scott Allen who was writing 363 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: for the Boston Globe, and he found out about it 364 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: because a lot of documents around that time had been 365 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: declassified about this testing that was occurring throughout the United States, 366 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: but mostly in Boston. M Yeah, and this this led 367 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: to some pretty pretty significant reactions in in Congress. Right. Well, Eventually, 368 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: in ninety four, what happens is that President Bill Clinton 369 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: forms the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments or because 370 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: we live in a world that loves awkward acronyms, acre 371 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,239 Speaker 1: are uh. It was chaired by it was shared by 372 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: Dr Ruth Faden of the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of 373 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: bio Ethics, and Clinton's this this happens to, like Matt said, 374 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: the way these documents got released it and Secretary of Energy, 375 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,239 Speaker 1: whose named Hazel O'Leary, had instituted an openness policy. And 376 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: so one point six million pages of classified records from 377 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: the time of the Cold War and just after World 378 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: War Two and beyond were released. No wiki leaks, no Snowden, 379 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: no UM, no Pentagon papers. The government itself, the government itself, 380 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: and that is how that is how these other journalists 381 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: found out about this. But the records made it clear 382 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: that when Quaker Oats and M I. T were working 383 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: together on this kind of stuff, the Atomic Energy Commission 384 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: was also providing funding. And not just this, but they 385 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: have been sponsoring tests, multiple tests, and multiple situations on 386 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: effects of radiation on the human body. Yeah, as it 387 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: turned out, citizens of the United States who had checked 388 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: into various hospitals for numerous different ailments um were secretly 389 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: being injected with varying amounts of plutonium and other radioactive 390 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: material areals without their knowledge or we assume they're consent. Yes, 391 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: If you want to learn more specifically about this happening 392 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: at the fern Old Research Center, there is a paper 393 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: you can find on archive dot org called Human Subjects 394 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: Research Radiation Experimentation. It's part of the hearing that Ben 395 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: just mentioned that when Bill Clinton and the administration created 396 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: this group. This is one of the hearings where they 397 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: have all the findings and interview tons of people, even 398 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: two of the children who were experimented on at the 399 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: fern Old School, right, and their interviews with several of 400 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: them as you said there, it's strange to hear some 401 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: of the descriptions. One thing we do want to point 402 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: out about this study in particular is that despite congressional investigation, 403 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: despite declassification, there are still conflicting numbers on some of this. 404 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: So that's why you're hearing Nolan, Matt and I say 405 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: stuff like prety to seventy something children, and you might 406 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: see numbers as high as ninety and the age ranges 407 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: very widely. In one of those people that's interviewed says 408 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: he was seven at the time, but then most of 409 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: the reporting puts the children in their teens, so you know, 410 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy. Well, in other words, it feels 411 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: like a lot of this information information is just scratching 412 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: the surface of what the full extent of some of 413 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: these experiments might have looked like. So you know, it 414 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: implies to me that there were more than one unethical 415 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: radiation experiment going on. That's an excellent point, And speaking 416 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: of scratching the surface, you're right, we have yet to 417 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: begin looking at the other instances of Cold War radiation experiments, 418 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: but we will after a word from our spots, and 419 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: we're back. As we said before the break, this is 420 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: one instance of a radioactive experiment conducted on unsuspecting, unconsenting civilians. 421 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: And for those of you in the know about the 422 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: effects of radiation on the human body, it's not as 423 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: if these people were shocked or injected with some sort 424 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: of instant cancer. It did, however, uh. It did, however, 425 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: expose them to an abnormal amount of radiation. And it 426 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: is far from the only instance of this. We found, 427 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: in the course of just a little bit of digging, 428 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: various numerous situations in which unsuspecting citizens, some even unborn, 429 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: were treated as guinea pigs by Uncle Sam for the 430 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: for the purpose of learning more about the effects of radiation. 431 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: And did you notice what we just said, unborn? That's right. 432 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty three, the US Atomic Energy commissioned man 433 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: several studies at the University of Iowa on the health 434 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: effects of radioactive iodine in newborns and pregnant women. In 435 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: one study, researchers gave pregnant women from one hundred to 436 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: two hundred micro curies that's three point seven to seven 437 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: point four m b q of iodine one one, which 438 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: is radioactive, in order to study the women's aborted embryos 439 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: in an attempt to discover at what stage and to 440 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: what extent radioactive iodine crosses the placental barrier. In another study, 441 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: researchers gave twenty five newborn babies who were under thirty 442 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: six hours old and wade from five and a half 443 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: to eight and a half pounds um iodine one either 444 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: orally or through an injection, so that they could measure 445 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: the amount of iodine and their thyroid glands. Yikes. And 446 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: they kind of had it easy if they survived, because 447 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: prisoners of Washington and Oregon state at least those two states, 448 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: had their testicles are radiated. UM soldiers were exposed to 449 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: nuclear fallout. School children had radium rods inserted into their 450 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: nose the same way that those uh what what what 451 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: what were they called the pinchers the forceps that are 452 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: used to pull the brains out of mummies or out 453 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: of corpses during the process of mummification. Uh That radium 454 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: rods shoved up their nose. And there were also cases 455 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: where we we've talked about this a little bit before, 456 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: where radioactive chemicals in a gaseous form were released over 457 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: US and Canadian cities. Measuring the health effects of radioactive 458 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: fallout from nuclear bomb test? Is that like the St. 459 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: Louis one we spoke about on Yeah, And then there's 460 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: something else. There's a thing called Operations Sunshine. That sounds 461 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: fun and nice, right, it's Operation Sunshine. What is that, noll? Yeah, 462 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: it's basically body snatching. So fifteen hundred sample cadavers, many 463 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: of them babies and young children, were taken from countries 464 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: from Australia to Europe, often without their parents consent or knowledge, 465 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: and were used for exposure experiments. And this very misleadingly 466 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 1: named Operation Sunshine is that to see the effects on 467 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: a cadaver of radiation, see the effects on human tissue 468 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: depending on the UH, depending on the state of decay 469 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: of the corps. I wonder how much they actually learned 470 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: from that study that. I mean, it seems pretty brutal, 471 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: but at least it's cadavers. Well, we have seen that 472 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: sciences such a double edged sword. Some of the most 473 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: valuable life saving medical information has come from horrific acts 474 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: of war. And I know, folks that it may sound 475 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: as though Matt Noel and I are unfairly picking on 476 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: the good old us of a. We are presenting facts 477 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: that are not theories of the things that occurred in 478 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: this nation's his three. But we are by no means 479 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: dismissing the other experiments that occurred in other countries around 480 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: the same time. In Russia, for instance, there was a 481 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: nuclear exercise code named Snowball in ninety four. They detonated 482 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: an r D S four nuclear bomb. This bomb is 483 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: as powerful as the two bombs used in the American 484 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The stated goal of the 485 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: operation was military training to break through heavily fortified defensive lines. 486 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: But what they ended up doing is exposing forty five 487 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: thousand soldiers to the epicenter of a nuclear blast. Not 488 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,239 Speaker 1: during the time. They didn't drop the bomb on them, 489 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: but they dropped the bomb and they said go go 490 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: in there. So when we think about how disturbing and 491 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: unethical it is for dozens and dozens of children to 492 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: be exposed to any kind of radiation without their knowledge, 493 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: we also have to remember this is a world in 494 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: which other countries were also experimenting to two scales that 495 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: we cannot and we we we may never know the 496 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: scope of at this point. And yeah, because they're dealing 497 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: with the new technology that they weren't sure about. Forty 498 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: five thousands seems like a whole lot of test subjects 499 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: for you know, a single pool or for one big 500 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: study that sounds that sounds a little overkill to me 501 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: to do that, you know, send a hundred guys in 502 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: then yeah, right, And there have been other experiments in 503 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: different countries. Of course, the horrific things that groups of 504 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: people can do to other groups of people when they 505 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: decide there for one reason or another sub human right. 506 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: The same the same brutal statistic experiments that occurred in 507 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: World War Two in both the European and Pacific theaters 508 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: continued a degree today in places across the world. And 509 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, maybe those countries don't have a significant cash 510 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: of resources. So why would you stop the concentration camps 511 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: in North Korea? Is the question that the real politics 512 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: fans are asking themselves. And this leads us to I mean, 513 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: there we do have to put some historical context in this. 514 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: The the idea of informed consent as we understand it 515 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: now from an ethical viewpoint, didn't really exist back then, 516 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: and they didn't to Matt's point, like they didn't know 517 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: what the full effects of this radiation might be they were, 518 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: they were learning something that they strongly felt was for 519 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: the greater good. But uh, with the fern Old experiments 520 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: were specifically talking about children who perhaps could not consent 521 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: legally to do this kind of testing, didn't have parents 522 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: or guardians that could truly consent to it, and were 523 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: misinformed or just not informed about the you know, the 524 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: experiments that we're going on. It does give it an 525 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: extra creepy layer of exploit exploitativeness. Yeah, in my mind, 526 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: there's a great moment in the hearing where and I'm 527 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 1: not being sarcastic, I don't really I believe in sincerity, 528 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: there is a sincerely, great, profound moment in the hearing 529 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: where they're one of the senators or one of the 530 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: representatives is speaking to one of the officials from M 531 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: I T. And they say, well, we didn't think we 532 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: were doing harm. Uh. You know, this amount of radiation 533 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: they're being exposed to is less than the amount of 534 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: radiation I exposed myself to when I used the X 535 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: ray foot machine at the shoe store, which those were 536 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: fairly common. Some our listeners from that time may recognize 537 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 1: that and also be aware that those did greatly increase 538 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: people's chances of cancer. Uh, we just didn't know. It 539 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: was just fun to do. But he said that, Semit guy, 540 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: and he says, well, you know what's the harm essentially, 541 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: And and the representative or the congressional officials says, you know, 542 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: that's that's a great point. So why didn't you get 543 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: anybody from one of our fine private schools here in Massachusetts? 544 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: Why didn't you tell them what was going on and 545 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: ask them if they wanted to do it, which I 546 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: which I thought was a powerful moment. Well. Yeah, and 547 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: another question that was asked in that that a similar 548 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: exchange that occurred during those hearings was would you have 549 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: allowed your child to join the science club if you knew? 550 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: If you knew what was happening? Yeah, that's interesting. Even 551 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: just the idea of it as a science club is 552 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: really predatory sounding to me, you know, like it's it's 553 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: it's certainly they weren't doing fun science activities, you know, 554 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: they weren't experiment and who knows what happened to us 555 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: in space camp just seems like that's true. Wait, what 556 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 1: happens to space camp stage the vegas of NASA? But 557 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: but you know what I mean? I mean I just 558 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: feel like I feel like it has it's almost like 559 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: a creepy van that's just free candy on it, you know, 560 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: like I don't know it just that's it gets very 561 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: achy to me. Yeah, I see what you're saying. And 562 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: it is exploitative, especially to take children who have the 563 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: odds stacked against them uh socially and and probably would 564 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: never have ordinarily encountered an opportunity of such charity. And 565 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: it turned out to be a windowless band that said 566 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: free candy on the side. But when when we see this, 567 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: we we have to understand that these sorts of things 568 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: are exactly what happened when people fall into the slippery 569 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: slope of the greater good, because people's greater goods are 570 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: not always the same thing. And then you know, if 571 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: this is wartime research and you're scientists here and you're saying, well, 572 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: there is a one in two thousand percent chance, there's 573 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: a one out of two thousand chants that I will 574 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,399 Speaker 1: directly give one of these children an inoperable tumor or 575 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: cancer uh later in their lives. But in doing so, 576 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: I am essentially sacrificed in this child to save the 577 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: lives of hundreds of thousands of people in the future. 578 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean, is that is that true or is that 579 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: something people tell themselves in the wee hours when they 580 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: can't sleep. Yeah, I think it's both right. It could. 581 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: It could very well be true with any of these 582 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: kind of experiments that are awful for an individual or 583 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: even a large group of people. But in the end, 584 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: as we saw from the unit one from the concentration 585 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 1: camp studies, you know that research was kept and used 586 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: right right, Yes, we have. We have an our earlier 587 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: podcast on human experimentation. Uh, we we have an exploration 588 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: of how that occurred, the kind of devil's bargain that 589 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: the Allied countries made at the close of World War Two, 590 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: And just like that, the fern Old research that was 591 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: done on the Science Club was used to see how 592 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: nutrients go throughout the body, how they're either excreted or absorbed. 593 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty awful. It was later used in 594 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: some osteoporosis research exactly. So we'd like to know what 595 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: you think about this, Ladies and gentlemen, do you think 596 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: this kind of experimentation continues today? Now? I know people 597 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: who really genuinely believe in Kim trails. I know, they 598 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: get a lot of flak on the Internet, and a 599 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: lot of people will argue back and forth. It's a 600 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: very divisive issue. But for people who are skeptical about that, 601 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: about that concept, not the science behind it, if there 602 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: is science, But for people who are skeptical about a 603 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: government or a state level actors sense of ethics or 604 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: responsibility for the health of its people, then we have 605 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: to consider things like this happen are are happening now, 606 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: probably you know somewhere in the world. So what does 607 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: it make you think? Do you do you think this 608 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: stuff is worth it? Do you think it could have 609 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: happened in a different way? Do you think that future 610 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: historians will shed light on what may be happening now 611 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: that we don't know about. We'd like to hear from 612 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: you and to prove that we are listening. It's time 613 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: for shut Atkins. Our first shout out goes to Kyle 614 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: p who wrote us an email. He suggests that we 615 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: make an episode about the psychology behind the mind of 616 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theorist. Oh how he wants us to look 617 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: at the patterns, perspective, and mindset of a theorist um 618 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: whether it's wanting to believe there's someone in control, just 619 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: distrust in authority, mental illness, or being aware of accepted 620 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: conspiracies and remaining skeptical on others. H He wants us 621 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: to examine why theorists are so obsessed with seeking and 622 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: researching the truth. That's pretty good. It like an overall 623 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: examination of the mindset of conspiracy realists. What do you think, guys? Yeah, 624 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm into it, so thanks for writing, Kyle. Thanks so 625 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: much for checking out the show, Kyle. Our second shout 626 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: out of the week comes to us via Ashby gray Uh. 627 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: Ashby says recently discovered conspiracy stuff and stuff you should 628 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: know to get through work. Loving it. Apparently all these 629 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: dudes are married. Dang hashtag single a f well, Ashby, 630 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: thanks for writing. I think I got a little set 631 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 1: up here from my crew, includes you, Josh and Chuck. 632 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: If you're listening, sure I am. I am not in 633 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: fact married. I'm the hashtag unmarried AF. Thanks for watching. 634 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: I too am unmarried AF. That's right, No, you were 635 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: unmarried AF for the records, see the record two out 636 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: of the five. That's not bad, Ashby, in all seriousness, 637 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: thanks so much for checking out the show and for 638 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't for some reason checked out our counterpart 639 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: stuff you should know, give them, give them an auditory gander. 640 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: They're worth the time. Finally, we have one from Connor J. 641 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: Via email, Dear Ben Matt and Noel fox Eye the 642 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: second Gunman Tiger, blood Flash and light Brown. He didn't 643 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: make that up either. That's in the letter. Yes in 644 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: the letter, and I'm I'm yes, I'm humbled by that 645 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: phenomenal nickname. My name is Connor. I am a twelve 646 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,919 Speaker 1: year old from Minden, Louisiana and seriously considering a trip 647 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: to Atlanta. Come on along, Connor. Um started out first 648 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: on stuff you should Know, just two hundred episodes to go, 649 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: moved on to stuff you miss in history class, dabbled 650 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: a bit and brain stuff and stuff to blow your mind, 651 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: and after all that to rigamarole, listen to your podcasts 652 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 1: and like them better than the rest heavens an idea 653 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: for one, what about some more Internet mysteries? You know what, Connor, 654 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 1: we just had a little sit down where we hashed 655 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: out some ideas for the calendar coming up, and um, 656 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 1: there's there's an Internet mystery on there that I am 657 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: pretty excited about. I kind of had to sell these 658 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: guys on it, but I think you're going to like it. 659 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: So Connor a shout out to you. Glad you're listening, 660 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,439 Speaker 1: and um yeah, look for some Internet mysteries to come. 661 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: This concludes our gosh, but wait, it's not quite the 662 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: end of the show. What if you're saying, Hey, the 663 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: episode's done, but I'm not. There's more stuff that I 664 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: want to learn about this. I'm sad. There's no reason 665 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: to be sad. Fellow fellow listener, Fellow delver into the 666 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: unknown and the dark edges of obscure history. Right you can. 667 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: You can check out some fantastic books that have been 668 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: written about this and other similar events. I like to 669 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: call us further reading because in the past people have 670 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,919 Speaker 1: asked this, you know, where can I find out more 671 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: about this? Uh So we found two pretty solid books 672 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: that you might enjoy, Well, maybe enjoy is not the 673 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: right word, fascinating in the fascinating where you can at 674 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: least find more stuff. The first one is The Plutonium Files, 675 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: Colon America's secret medical experiments in the Cold War, and 676 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: that is by Eileen Welsome. The second one is Undo 677 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: Risk Colon Secret State Experiments on humans and that is 678 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 1: by Jonathan D. Moreno, who was in those hearings exactly 679 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: he was in those hearings. And if you if you 680 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: want to get all the sources that we use, or 681 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: at least the vast majority of them, if you head 682 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 1: on over to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy Stuff, check 683 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: out the episode that's gonna match up with this one, 684 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: and in the description you're going to find a huge 685 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: list of sources where you can just dig for hours 686 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: and hours. So, speaking of social media online things, if 687 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: you would like to follow us on Twitter and Facebook 688 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: to see some of our stories that don't, for one 689 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: reason or another make it to the air, or things 690 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: your fellow listeners want other people to know about, find 691 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,760 Speaker 1: us at Facebook and Twitter where we are Conspiracy Stuff. 692 00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: If you'd like to see a picture of our very 693 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: own Matt Madman Frederick as a child, all space camped up, 694 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: then visit our Instagram where we are Conspiracy Stuff, Show 695 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: and If. And that's the end of this classic episode. 696 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 697 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,919 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 698 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 699 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 700 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 701 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 702 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 703 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know is a production of 704 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,240 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 705 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 706 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.