WEBVTT - Madison Cunningham 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.520 What is orange wine? I know nothing about wines. Don't worry. 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.319 I'm very interested to know about your nothing. What is 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.560 orange wine? Because that sounds really weird and good? Is 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:23.919 it like Fanta? Do you mean fanta? Crazy? Sweet and carbonated? 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.439 And my dad needs to say this was wine and 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.640 it's orange, so you know it's it's phantom medicine. You 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:36.760 ever heard of high See? Hello, I'm Mini driver. Welcome 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.160 to Many Questions Season two. I've always loved Pruce's question. 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.839 It was originally a nineteenth century parlor game where players 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.240 would ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.640 the other player's true nature. It's just the scientific method really. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.160 In asking different people the same set of questions, you 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.520 can make observations about which truths appeared to me universal. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.399 I love this discipline, and it made me wonder, what 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.200 if these questions were just the jumping off point, what 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.679 greater depths would be revealed if I ask these questions 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:15.080 as conversation starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.679 these different disciplines. So I adapted prus questionnaire and I 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.440 wrote my own seven questions that I personally think a 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.680 pertinent to a person's story. They are, when and where 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.559 were you happiest? What is the quality you like least 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:32.080 about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.160 What question would you most like answered? What person, place, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.200 or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.840 your last meal? And can you tell me something in 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.560 your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:50.040 I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.600 I am honored and humbled to have had the chance 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.240 to engage with. You may not hear their answers to 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.640 all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:03.080 which questions closest to their experience or the most surprising, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.280 or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:14.160 today is musician and songwriter Madison Cunningham at She is 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.440 one of the youngest guests I've had on my show, 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.280 but you wouldn't know it from the wisdom and sort 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.360 of old soulness that radiates not only through the lyrics 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.640 she writes, but also in the way she speaks. Whether 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.359 she's performing solo or sharing the stage with some of 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:35.160 folk music's biggest names. Madison's musical talents are really not 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.679 to be missed. I love hearing a songwriter describe the 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.080 world in their own words, and it was delightful hearing 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.680 Madison's perspective on my questions. I've really hope you enjoy 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:54.480 our lovely conversation. What person, place, or experience most altered 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:59.440 your life? I would say music has been the thing. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.920 I think touring the country and the world was the 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:07.360 thing that very much challenged my worldview and my line 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:11.440 of thinking because I was immediately met with or I 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.200 should say, my opinions were met with experiences, and that 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.760 changes everything. You can have thoughts about the way you 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:20.880 think life should be or the way you've known it 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.560 to be with them. When you like actually experienced life 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.120 and open yourself up to other people's experiences, your opinions 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.160 on things drastically changed. And I remember the first tour 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.799 I ever did. I was opening for Chris Thealy and 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.440 the Punch Brothers, and we both had a really similar background, 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.160 like both grew up in the church. We were both 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.560 homeschooled the whole way through, and I don't know many 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.360 people who had a similar story like that. We just 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.120 were talking on the bus and I just was asking 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.280 questions and I just will never forget one thing that 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:47.960 he said to me. He's like, you're twenty one now, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.520 and I was like yeah, and he was like, yeah, 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.320 things are going to change for you. And he wasn't 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.960 arrogant or like condescending or anything. It just was like 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.960 he was coming from a place of sincerely sympathizing with 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.000 me and going or empathizing maybe and being like, I 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:06.120 know exactly what you're saying, and I understand it completely 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.080 and why you're asking these things, but also like it's 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.040 going to change for you. I just know it. And 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.520 he was right like and I don't even remember exactly 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:15.800 what I asked him, but I remember the place that 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.680 it was coming from. And I was very just fearful. 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.839 I just I just was nervous and scared, and I 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.000 felt I was experiencing impostor syndrome too. So I always 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.840 say music in a way saved my life, and I 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.120 think made me the person that I am because it 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.719 just immediately challenged me and caused me to open my 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.360 eyes and touch the world in a different way. Did 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.680 you write different music before music became your I don't 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.080 want to use the word escape, but maybe your evolution 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.560 out of that that first part of your life. Did 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.960 you write music while you were still within it? And 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.200 then did you write your way out of it? Yes? 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.000 And yes? And what was that music like? Like? Do 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.880 you have recordings of it? Like? What was it like? 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.839 I feel like I'm still very much that person. Always 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.240 had a curiosity of like breaking musical rules. I really 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.960 really enjoyed that and just had a curiosity around that. 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.320 But in terms of like writing, my lyrics were very 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.640 stale and they didn't show anything. They just told everything. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.760 I have a bit of embarrassment around that phase of 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.680 writing that. There was a whole record that I did 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.600 that had all of the songs on it, which has 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.560 since been taken down, and again, like, musically I'm very 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.640 proud of that record, but thematically and lyrically, I just 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.919 felt that I was showing my age. I think I 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:28.360 wrote my way out of it. Like I had a 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.920 friend who had sent me a book. Have you ever 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.000 read the book Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattinson? No, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.479 Yeah you should. It's within the first three chapters you 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.640 get his point and like that's just enough to change 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:43.960 you and to inspire you, and the rest of the 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.200 books great too. But he goes on this whole tangent 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.120 about object writing and sort of how to write from 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:53.240 your senses, and that really teaches you how to write 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.919 in metaphor and to incorporate imagery and that phase. I 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.000 was probably eighteen when I read that book, and I 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.560 just remember that my writing started to take a turn 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.839 because I would think about those exercises and his whole 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.680 thing is like, you write on an object using your senses. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.040 You write every day, but it can only be for 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.520 ten minutes, so when the timer goes off, you have 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.720 to be done. It doesn't matter if your thought was 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.799 finished or not. But it's all about teaching the brain 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.680 to dive deeper in a shorter amount of time. So 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.719 just when I did that and kind of went full 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.440 force with that exercise, I really feel like that's when 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.880 I started to write songs that I was proud of 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.240 and could like get behind. Now, Great, that's really cool. 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.440 I want to check that book out. It's incredible. I 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.240 mean from the first page or like just reading the 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.840 way that a writer writes, it's so inspiring. I think 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:49.880 you totally dig it. What question would you most like answered? 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:54.120 I think this is really on the nose, but I 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.560 would love to know if there was an afterlife or not. Like, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.640 I don't know if everybody feels that way, but for me, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.560 it's like that would maybe help things in terms of 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.359 like the way that we grieve. It's like, well, we 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.640 see that person again. I don't know. Did you have 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.520 a spiritual upbringing? I totally did. I did. Yeah, And 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.240 so much of my young adult life has been shedding 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.720 all of that but also coming back to it in 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.200 different ways that I can't sort of help. Like, I 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.040 guess that question was planted in me as a kid, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:26.880 but there was always an answer for it. There was 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.600 always like, yes, there is there is the hope of that. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.040 And now I still have that question, but don't feel 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.160 like I have an answer. And there's a mystery to that. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.720 There's a mystery that I've become totally comfortable with. But 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.040 I would like to know. Yeah, I would too, I 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.560 would too. I mean, I think it's really tricky because 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.160 my when you're a kid and you ask questions, like 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.680 regardless of whether when came from a spiritual household or not, 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.400 you ask questions, and I know as a parent, you 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.960 endeavor to answer that question no matter what it is. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.880 You try and find an answer yeah, I'm so aware 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.320 of how little I've gone. I don't know, Like I 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.000 felt like it was such a cop out and wanted 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.280 to offer something up that. I think it's really interesting 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.400 that kids in a way have to share the certainty 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.160 of their parents answers, and maybe those questions go back 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.840 to being questions and you don't have an answer for 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.480 them totally. It's such a funny thing, Like things I 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.440 thought I was sure about, I realized it was just 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.120 my parents gave me that answer because they were my parents. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.560 I feel like all these big questions happened late at night, 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.080 it's like dark outside and things start to feel a 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.640 little bit scarier, and you ask these questions that are 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.400 going to be in your head, you know, or in 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.440 your dreams or whatever to your parents, And I'm like, 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.720 how much of it was them putting on a brave 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.800 face and filling the silence and wanting to be a 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.880 pillar for me and say, yeah, this is this is 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.880 the answer to this, probably, you know, like being an 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.720 adult now and knowing how much I'd say I don't know. 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.080 That was also their way of loving me. They wanted 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:49.920 to give an answer to help me probably just be 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.720 able to rest my head and go to bed false asleep, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.920 like when you see a little child's face going, what 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.440 happens when you die? Oh? Like you really? You know, 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:06.600 I've leaned pretty hard into clouds in heaven. I'm not 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.240 gonna lie. I did a lot of that face with 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.560 this little face staring up from the dinosaur duve. Oh 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:18.200 my god, it happens when you die. Mom, Oh darling, Oh, 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:26.400 it's lovely. Don't worry. It's so lovely, you know. And 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.640 he never questioned me, And then like obviously now you 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.320 know we have these conversations. It's really it's interesting. But 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.360 I want to know that too. Also feel like maybe 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.000 there's a reason that we just don't because life wouldn't 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.600 resonate in the way that it did if we were like, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.480 it'll be fine, and I give a funk, it's fine. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.480 There's so many people that I grew up with who 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.440 act like that because of the certitude and what they 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.840 think and know to be true, where it's like, what, 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.480 there is a heaven and the afterlife is where it's at, 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.480 and that don't sweat it in this life if it's 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.480 not going your way. Yeah. The way that they treat 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.560 people as a result of that it's like to me 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.319 or the earth or whatever it is, it's like, how 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.360 is this okay to you? Seeing that? Observing that that 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.440 started to just make me kind of like question, you know, 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.040 it's like, we are existing now, Why are we pretending 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.280 like we understand that it's going to be taken care 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.480 of later, or that we shouldn't be thoughtful about these 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.880 issues that are happening now, or that we shouldn't be 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.000 attentive to our neighbors or whatever. It's like, I just 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.520 felt like such an oxymoron to me to like claim 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.560 to be a Christian and to then move through the 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.920 world that way. But you know, that's a whole other conversation. 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.840 But I feel now like in my life, when the 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.360 words I don't know come out of my mouth, I 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.920 feel a sense of relief. It's like releasing this pressure 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.360 that I have to maybe feel like I need the 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.040 answers for everything, and to just be like, actually, that's 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.400 not for me to decide, it's not for me to say, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.640 and that's okay. Yeah, it's it's liberating. Do you find 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.160 that with songwriting? I found that a little bit. What 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.880 if I was stuck and I genuinely didn't know what 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:54.959 that verse was, or what that chorus or what was 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.720 supposed to be doing. I would say out loud, I 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.240 don't know, and then I will go and do something else. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.360 And it was invariably, necessarily always, but I would say 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.120 about nine at the time in doing that other thing, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.120 whether it was going for a walk, going for stuff, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.120 going to the supermarket, that the idea or the link 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.400 the bridge would come, or the idea of the lyrics. 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.600 I think there's massive freedom and I don't know. It's 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:22.760 the key maybe, and there's sometimes answers like you can't 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.840 guarantee that, but like in the action of saying I 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.800 don't know and then going for a surf or going 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.360 on a walk, some of those say they're like as 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:33.640 simple as lyrical questions sort themselves out where you're like, oh, 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.319 that's the end of the verse. All of my favorite 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:41.000 writers have such strict regiments. They don't only prioritize writing, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.480 they prioritize not writing as well, And that them is 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.120 like a part of it, you know, Yeah, that's brilliant, 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.480 and that is so true. And I think even like 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.480 with writing anything, or maybe even with challenges as a whole, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.840 the idea of leave it alone, like step away from 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.280 that and allow the sort of now of discover rate 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.800 as opposed to just staying in the certainty of I 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.679 don't know. I think it can actually be incredibly liberating. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.400 That's really interesting. It's in the other stuff. The creativity 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.480 is in the other stuff, as well as the sitting 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.520 there with the guitar or at the piano exactly yet. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.079 To use an audio example, it's like some of the 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:22.200 biggest sounds are made from the lightest touch. You can 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.200 use that in writing. It's like we want to put 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.760 our heavy hand on it because we want product, we 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.600 want things to be finished an instant, when it's like 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.320 sometimes we just have to like lighten up on our 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.400 touch of the song and let it just grow. I 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.560 feel like songs are like living things that if you 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.480 give it the right amount of water and sunlight and attention, 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.760 they will they will grow. I was writing over the 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.760 Pandemic with Gary light Body, who's a really old friend 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.600 of mine and a beautiful songwriter, and we were sending 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.760 each other you know, so he literally did he just 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.920 sit there with the guitar and like he'd figure something out. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.280 Then he sent it to me and then I play it, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.079 and then I change some of the lyrics and I'd 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.520 send it back to him, but it's like each time, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.720 and then maybe we'd have like voice notes in between 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.000 where he'd be like, I don't know about that? What 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.040 did you mean by that lyric? Like what did you 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.520 mean about that? Linking us back into the thing. And 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.280 it was so funny being in his I don't know 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.360 and then like playing around in that and then vice versa. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.960 It was so beautiful because that it was an exchange 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.600 of I don't know what this is, or I think 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.400 it might be this, but I'm not attached to it, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.920 so you can change it. And we wrote like that, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.520 and there's something really cool about that because it doesn't 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.320 have to be anything. And you're right, it does create itself. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.959 It's the statue inside the block of marble, the Michael 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.640 and the idea. It reveals itself. You just sort of 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:42.839 chip away. Yeah, I mean it sounds like also in 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.280 the exercise. What's so beautiful about that when you're writing 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.440 with someone else is like, you can't afford to be 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:52.079 too precious or egotistical about when your ideas are questioned. 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.760 It's really actually just a question of wanting to understand. 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.520 It's not like someone put it once, it was like, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.439 I try not to take criticism personal because it's not 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.320 me that they're criticizing. It's just an idea, which is 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.920 like we don't do a good job, or at least 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.880 I don't of separating myself from an idea because if 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.840 someone doesn't like it, I'm like, then I can't produce 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.240 anything else. It's I'm the problem. And it's like, that's 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.640 not true. You're just the conduit for an idea and 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.360 don't like let yourself become too like entangled with it. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.760 But I think what's so beautiful about that exercises like 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.320 you guys were allowing yourself to ask like I don't 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.120 know what this means, and you could either be like, 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.400 oh it means this, or you could return it with it. 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.400 I don't know, but it's malluable. Yeah. Also practicing having 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.560 that thrown at you like I don't like that and 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.480 it's your idea and I have to go that that 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.680 doesn't feel okay, and then you have to go through 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.080 that process of going, well, so what if that were true? 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.280 So so now if I look at this song or 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.200 this piece of rising from the point of view of 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.480 this person that I love and value they don't like 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:54.520 this thing, okay, so what is that and then like 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.280 going and examining it and going, oh, maybe I was 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.160 just attached to it because it was the only idea 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.880 that I had, and I wanted to send him something 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:03.600 back to show that I can do this, like at 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.800 the same level as you, which is ridiculous because he's 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.960 been writing songs and many more songs than I ever have. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.000 It was interesting, like interrogating the ego of someone I 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.440 respect doesn't like my idea, and then you couldn't take 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.040 it personally because they weren't there. You just have to 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.040 kind of figure it out and write another idea and 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.760 then go, okay, well that also works and is maybe 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.680 beautiful totally. I think it's cool writing in lots of 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.240 different ways, and it also creates an opportunity for you 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.680 to respond in two different ways. Either you like are 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.480 offended by it and you shut down and then no 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.000 ideas come, or you allowed to be this like moment 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.240 of faith where you're like, oh, I can do more, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.400 I can do better, and I will exactly and maybe 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.360 it will be better. Or maybe it's also just like 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.920 there's there are loads of ideas. It's cool you don't 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.440 just have one idea. I always get very attached to 0:15:47.480 --> 0:16:00.480 that same where and when were you happiest? I loved 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.120 this question because it was a little bit sad to me. 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.440 That took me so long to think about it. It's like, oh, yeah, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.760 am I not happy on a day to day basis? 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.400 I don't know, but I think it's kind of a 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.840 two part answer, if that's cool. During the pandemic, some 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.600 of our best friends and I and my husband, we 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.440 all drove up to Montana and there's just one moment 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.880 where we drove up to Glacier and we we blew 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.000 up all these inner tubes and we started at this 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.960 stream head and just floated down the stream and there's 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.800 this one section where the water was so blue and 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.880 so deep you couldn't see the bottom. And I remember 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:42.000 just like instinctively grabbing onto a rock, throwing my inner tube, 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.960 and then just diving as far as I could, And 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.280 I like, I never do that. I rarely have a 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.120 fear of water, but I just like I felt fearless 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.400 and happy, and also like literally in that moment, no 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.120 one could reach me, no one could ask me questions. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.440 It just I felt completely liberated and I felt like 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.400 just a person, and like all the other things that 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.280 you sort of let make up who you are felt 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.880 unimportant in that moment, just from being in nature and 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.719 from shutting off my phone. Things as simple as that 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.840 that made me feel truly happy. God, I so can 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.439 imagine that. I mean, I'm sitting here in London and 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.720 I dream of the water in all forms, particularly the ocean, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.280 all the time, and I just so saw that pool 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.880 of what I love a physical trigger of happiness. It's 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.280 often other people that around the circumstances, like just in 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.200 asking this question that trigger happiness, yeah, or moments from childhood. 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.240 But I love that idea of nature triggering real, true 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:50.440 happiness because I feel that is absolutely my happiest place 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.240 in the world is out in the ocean, surfing, being 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.560 able to see my son on the beach totally and 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.639 it's so innocent. It's like the moments where it just 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.800 feels so uncomplicated for a second, they're like, Oh, all 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:03.879 that matters right now is just like the way the 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.720 water feels and catching this wave or whatever. You know. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.440 It's like, I don't sadly go to those moments often enough, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.240 or I don't make space for them because there's just 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.680 so much you know day to day. My friend calls 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.960 them techno realities, which are just these little things that 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.679 you get lost in that sometimes cause you to forget 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.400 what's important and what you love about your life. It's 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.879 so weird because I was just having this conversation with 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:28.480 my boyfriend the other day. I was like, what is 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.560 this charis in between the self awareness of things that 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.400 will make our lives better and the actual doing of them. 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.400 You know how that feels. I know how that feels, 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.159 and yet actually going and seeking it out. It's almost 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.000 like we slump into that techno reality, or we slump 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.000 into it going wow, this is just life. This is 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.320 just what it is. I've got to sit in front 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.080 of my computer for five hours and answer emails or 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.199 do this thing. I think we've got to fight harder 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.920 to carve out that other space because I know, we 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.239 know that's where the creativity and the freedom comes from. Well, 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.199 and the people that I think who display that the 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.280 most are like in sort of business terms, are always 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:08.320 deemed as like flaky or just like non responsive, but 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.840 they're actually the most tapped in. And that's not the 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.960 case for every flakey person. Quote unquote. But those creatives 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.960 that don't answer emails or don't it's like I know 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.280 that they're somewhere creating, or they're on a walk, or 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.440 they're doing the things that matter, and it's like who 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.679 cares about the rest? I know emails matter, Like if 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.960 I didn't answer my email, this wouldn't have happened today. 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.240 So that's important to me, you know. But also it's 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.200 just like I think you're right. Instinctively, we know where 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.800 to return to, but we don't. It's always like last 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.040 resort or something. Yeah, I think again. It is just 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.240 like insisting on drawing the lines of engagement with life, 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.639 you know, of going okay, well it's going to be 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.320 this for this amount of time. But I'm just talking 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.199 from my I suppose from my own perspective, which is 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.320 one gets lazy and then you don't realize that you've 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.760 sort of been bludgeoned by all of the social contracts 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.280 and all of the stuff. But it doesn't really take much. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.399 That's what's great. Like I can just walk up to 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.840 the park from where I live in London, and that's 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.480 where my mother used to say, that's where the city breeds. 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.280 And it's true, like you go there and these ancient 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.879 trees and it's pretty wonderful, but you have to go 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.000 do it right. You have to do it. No one 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.440 is going to tell you that you need that break 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.760