1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Scoot to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: we're back with part two of our episodes the Bone Palace, 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: where the humans are the bone lords, the bones are 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: their houses, and we all build with bones. That's right. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: Last episode we spoke quite a bit about the use 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: of mammoth bones by early people's in the harsh reality 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: of the Ice Age. Yeah, that's right. We we talked 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: about the the bone circles of the Russian plane from 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: the from the last glacial maximum, where a Stone Age 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: hunter gatherers would take mammoth bones from either scavenged or 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: or from mammoths that they had killed in hunting, and 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: they would build these strange circular walls out of them. Uh. 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: And it's not exactly known what all of these structures 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: were for. We talked about a recently discovered one, uh 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: that that yielded some especially intriguing results. We talked about 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: what the function of these buildings could have been. Was 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: it a dwelling, was it a storehouse for food? To 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: have some kind of symbolic or religious significance. Uh, and 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: today we wanted to continue on that theme. We wanted 22 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: to build with bones. That's right. So it's easy, of 23 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: course to just wallow in the necromantic, Gothic and death 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: metal glory of imagine palaces built out of bone, and 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: and certainly we we enjoy doing that as well. Uh, 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: palaces of bone, thrones of bone, bone forged weapons that 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: incur one D six chrotic damage on a critical hit, 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: that sort of thing, Orcus's name be praised. But to 29 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: use or the Lord of bones old rattle shirt from 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. Oh yeah, we'll come back to rattle 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: shirt in a bit. But yeah, he used bones as 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: tools and and raw materials. I mean, ultimately, it's just 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: good sense. So first let's consider why so for starters 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,279 Speaker 1: to state the obvious bones do decay. They just decay 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: at a much slower rate than soft tissue. It might 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: take a decade and say a rainforest environment, or thousands 37 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: of years in a dry environment, but decomposition still eventually occurs. 38 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: Because we have to remember that fossils are of course 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: no longer proper bones, but they have undergone mineralization. Yeah, 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: there are a couple of methods by which fossils are formed. 41 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: But when you're looking at like dinosaur fossils, those are 42 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: not the bones of the dinosaurs. They are ways that 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: other minerals have have taken the shape of the original bones. Right, 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: But given our short lives, it's easy to sort of 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: fall into the loose idea that bones last and flesh 46 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: does not, and anyway you shake it. For us vertebrates, 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: our bones do tend to outlive us. The flesh rots away, 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: but the bones remain. And then what are you going 49 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: to do with them? Now, obviously there's a great deal 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: of room here for human complexity. We reflesh the bones 51 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: with memory, magical thinking, and symbolism. The skull becomes a 52 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: species wide symbol for impermanence in the inexorable pull of 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: the grave. But in congress with this for humans, and 54 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: separate entirely from it from any organisms, bones are simply 55 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: durable materials of varying and novel size that can lend 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: themselves very well to various uses. And uh, I thought 57 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: we might begin by just considering just a few quick 58 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: examples from the animal world. All right, let's do it. 59 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: So our necromancers are fictional necromancers, from the top of 60 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: the first episode. They love a good bone pile. Any 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: necromancer is gonna love a good bone pile. And while 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: other animals display complex emotions around death as well, burial 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: of the dead is generally the domain of humans and Neanderthals. 64 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: But there are other ways to amass a collection of bones, 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: and that is via predation. So think of the Killer 66 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: Rabbit and Monty Python and the Holy Grail right right, yeah, 67 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: look at the bones. Oh yeah, Tim the enchanterer the 68 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: bones or does somebody say bones shmones? I think I 69 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: don't remember that part. Certainly, this is a deadly killer 70 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: organism and as such is places just littered with with 71 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: their remains. Yeah, this is uh the way in which 72 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: predators are often predators and scavengers can become what's known 73 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: in the fossil record as an accumulating agent that that 74 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: sort of gathers stuff together into a single site. Right, 75 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: and then this accumulation is often referred to as a midden. 76 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: So I want to return us to a place that 77 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: we've gone to many times in the podcast, and that 78 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: is the world of the octopus or the octopus midden 79 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: is a great example of this, consisting of the remains 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: of various creatures that the octopus has preyed upon, and 81 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: so this includes generally it's you we're talking about shells, 82 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: but also it can include bones. Now, a midden like 83 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: this need only be the accumulated bones of one's prey, 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: but it can be more. Uh. The Sydney occtopus, for example, 85 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: Octopus uh tetricus, according to a two thousand fourteen paper 86 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: from David Shell and Peter Godfrey Smith UH. Peter Godfrey 87 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: Smith is the author as well of Other Minds, The Octopus, 88 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: the Sea and the Deep Origins of Consciousness. They point 89 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: out that this particular octopus may be engaging in a 90 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: form of ecosystem engineering via their middens. Basically, they occur 91 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: in large numbers on a shell bed of their prey. 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: Shell bed that has become ends up becoming home to 93 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: a community of invertebrate grazers and scavengers, while also creating 94 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: additional shelter possibilities for the occupids themselves. However, the downside 95 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: seems to be that the increased fish population can then 96 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: bring in sharks and make it a bit busier and 97 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: more dangerous than it would normally be for these octopuses. So, uh, 98 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: it's an interesting example, like it kind of getting into 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: this area of perhaps like accidental tinkering with the environment, 100 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: accidental ecosystem engineering that becomes then becomes part of this Uh, 101 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: this creature's habit, part of its life cycle. But then 102 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: there's an unbalancing that occurs as well. So this makes 103 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: me think, so if the octopus is um let me 104 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: know if I'm understanding this wrong, is the idea maybe 105 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: that the octopus is using instinctually using this pile of 106 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: shells from its prey to attract other animals to the site, 107 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: which can then themselves become prey. Yeah, I believe so, 108 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: though again it comes with certain complications, maybe also attracting predators. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 109 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: The octopus here that we're talking about is is typically solitary. 110 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: But the side they observed here was just one of 111 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,799 Speaker 1: a couple of examples that scientists have come across of 112 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: where we've seen octopods living in high density populations with 113 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: complex social behaviors. Trash makes friends. Yeah, but the you know, 114 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: the the impact of the middens here I think drives 115 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: home how the use of bone or shell material can 116 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: sort of emerge out of a creature's lifestyle, you know, 117 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: like by eating a lot of creatures and then leaving 118 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: their bones, you begin to create artificial environments that are 119 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: composed of bones. And that opens a and that changes 120 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: the ecosystem, at least in pockets. Now, these are, of course, uh, 121 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: extant octopods. But what about extinct dctopods. Well, there's a 122 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: lot we don't know about extinct octopods because you know, 123 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about creatures composed uh, you know, mostly soft tissue, 124 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: and there they are a rarity in the fossil record. 125 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: But there's there's one potential example, certainly a controversial hypothesis 126 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: that I've brought up on the show before and I 127 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: can't help but bring it up again here. It's a 128 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: by paleontologist Mark mcminimon, and he and his co authors 129 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: proposed in Tleven that a peculiar arrangement of etheosaur bones 130 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: from the Triassic pure It were arranged in a linear 131 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: pattern by a presumed giant octopus that was playing with 132 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: its food, perhaps even creating some manner of And this 133 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: is where it gets really kind of trippy and more controversial, 134 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: the idea that perhaps this creature was not only arranging 135 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: the bones of its prey in a novel pattern, but 136 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: was engaging in some sort of self portrait. Okay, so 137 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: I love this idea, but it is we should definitely 138 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: acknowledge like at least two layers of pure speculation. I mean, 139 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: first of all, is not not accepted by the scientific 140 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: community in any broadway at all. And so the first 141 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: layer of speculation is just the idea that the octopus 142 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: was arranging the bones like this, which that doesn't seem 143 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: implausible to me, but still it's speculative. We don't know 144 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: that's what happened. The second level is the intention behind 145 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: the arrangement, the idea that the octopus was creating a 146 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: portrait of its own tentacle right or not tentacle arm? Sorry, yeah, 147 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: so know there's a there's no way to for us 148 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: to know that. It's pure speculation, I mean, and again, 149 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: even the the idea of this being an actual species, 150 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: it's just we have a presume the researchers are presuming 151 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: that there is an octopus here that did this, because 152 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: there is again no no fossil evidence of its of 153 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: it's of the soft tissue that would be associated with 154 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: this creature. That is sometimes informally referred to as a 155 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: crack in a Triassic kracking. Now, on the other hand, 156 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: I would not say at all that it would be 157 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: implausible for an octopus to mess around with the bones 158 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: of its prey animals and put them in strange arrangements, 159 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: because octopus is absolutely modern. Octopuses play, They play with 160 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: objects all the time. They manipulate objects in ways that 161 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: have no obvious, uh practical advantage. You know, they're not 162 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: just like using objects as tools or something. They apparently 163 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: engage in purely recreational object manipulation. Right, And then one 164 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: can easily imagine that you have the this play that's 165 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: occurring with the bones, have this you know, steady manipulation 166 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: of the bones, and it's the thing that could in theory, 167 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: lead to more complex uses of bones later on, the 168 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: use of bones as tools. Now, I don't think we've 169 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: see anything occurring in nature with octopods with bones like this, 170 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: but we do have examples of octopods seeming to engage 171 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: in tool you say, with with coconuts or shells, right, yeah, yeah, 172 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: using them basically as like a shield for their bodies. Yeah. Now, 173 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: other animals certainly work with bones and shells as well. 174 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: Bones factor into the nesting behaviors of certain birds and 175 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: pack rats. Bower birds have been known to use bones 176 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: in the creation of their mating bowers. But when you 177 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: think of bones as tools or bones as materials, you 178 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: can't help but think of hominids and they're two. And 179 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: the tool use of early humans in particular, perhaps in 180 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: part due to that stunning sequence, uh, that we've all 181 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: seen from two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, right, 182 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: in which a human an ancestor discovers that the bone 183 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: of a taper might be used as a weapon, not stonework, 184 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: but bone work. Now. I love this scene. We've talked 185 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: about it on the show before. Uh. But this scene 186 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: is actually a reference to the nineteen forty nine uh 187 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: osteodonto koratic culture hypothesis or O d K hypothesis by 188 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: Professor Raymond Dart, the man who also identified the tongue 189 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: child fossil in nineteen twenty four. Um. Uh, what does 190 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: that mean? The O d K hypothesis is basically bone 191 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: tooth horn culture OSTEO danto choratic culture, and the idea 192 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: here is that austro Lepithecus africanus would have engaged in 193 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: a carnivorous and sometimes cannibalistic lifestyle augmented by bone and 194 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: horn tools that they used to hunt other animals and 195 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: each other. Dart based this on skeletal part representation patterns 196 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: at fossil sites, presenting evidence that they were possibly using 197 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: bones as tools and weapons. Essentially, it's a model for 198 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: the transition from ape to human via bone assisted predation, 199 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: depending on tools made from the bones of their own 200 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: kills and or the kills of other predators that they 201 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: have scavenged. Now, this hypothesis has met with a generally 202 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: skeptical audience, and it's and it had several notable detractors. 203 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: Now it is generally considered that O. D K culture 204 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: did not exist as Dart envisioned it, and that the 205 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: bones he observed were simply due to the natural breakup 206 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: of skeletons, predator preferences, and environmental damage to skeletal remains. 207 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: The criticism of the hyena is all is often brought 208 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: up as a possible scavenger responsible for the bone biddens 209 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: that Dart interpreted as an example of this O. D 210 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: K culture. All right, so darts picture of this extinct 211 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: human relative making this tool use transition through the use 212 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: of bones for wide scale or large scale predation. That's 213 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: probably not accurate, but that doesn't mean that human never 214 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: used bones as tools, right, Yeah, And I want to 215 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: drive home that od K culture hypothesis was not it 216 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: was this was not like a crazy hypothesis, and it's 217 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's very very sensible. But yeah, 218 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem like it's really um held up 219 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: over time. But until at the same time, the use 220 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: of bone tools is an important part of of human 221 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: tool use. There's evidence of early humans using bone tools 222 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: one point five million years ago and what is now 223 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: South Africa, and these would have been used, uh we 224 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: believe to dig in termite mounds. Included a photo here 225 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: for you to look at them, Joe. They the kind 226 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: of thing where you know, if you didn't know what 227 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: you were looking at, you might not get that these 228 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: were tools. But but these were specialized tools. I mean, 229 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: this is a huge problem in archaeology actually. I mean 230 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: by the time we as just lay consumers of artifacts 231 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: come to these artifacts, they've already been interpreted as tools. 232 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: But when you're just like looking at sediments in the 233 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: ground and fragments of things, it's often hard to tell 234 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: what is a tool and what is not. Yeah. Another example, 235 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: I came across bone knives from North Africa dating back 236 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: ninety thousand years connected with Middlestone Age terry and culture, 237 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 1: and these would have been made from rib bones. Wait, 238 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: rib bones of what of humans? Or of something else? 239 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: I believe animal, but I'm not sure they really were 240 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: able to figure out exactly what sort of animal. Now. 241 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: According to a two thousand fifteen study from the University 242 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: of Montreal, Neanderthals of the Middle Paleolithic might have used 243 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: made use of multi purpose bone tools. These were found 244 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: at Grot Dubaison or Grot de Bissan at r C 245 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: Circure in Burgundy, France, and they would have been used 246 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: alongside stone tools. So you know, it's not this idea 247 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: of like bone or stone, but like bone and stone. 248 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: And I think that makes sense, especially based in the 249 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: uh the example that we uh we we focused on 250 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: for a first episode in this pair of episodes about 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: bone technology. Yeah, Now, I can think about some ways 252 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: in which stone I think would be superior to bone 253 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: it for certain types of tool uses. And one of 254 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: the things is that uh it seems there are certain 255 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: types of stones that flake away in a kind of 256 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: shearing pattern, which along with the technique of napping, which 257 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: is where you strike stones together to try to shear 258 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: off part of a target stone to make a sharp 259 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: edge on it. That that works with stones, but it 260 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: doesn't really work with bones, at least as far as 261 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: I can imagine. But that doesn't mean bones would be useless. 262 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: It would just mean that you couldn't use them really 263 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: to create a knife edge as effectively as you can 264 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: with napping of certain types of rock. Yeah, so I 265 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: could be wrong about that, does it? Does that seem 266 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: right to you? Yeah? I think so? Yeah. Yeah. So again, 267 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: this would have been a multi purpose bone tool that 268 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: the Neanderthals would have used here. Uh So, the Reacher's 269 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: researchers point out that first of all, naturally the prime 270 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: purpose of hunting an animal was to obtain meat and 271 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: also hide, but the bones were very useful as well. 272 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: Uh So, For example, one of the bone tools found here, 273 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: that the pivotal multi tool that they're talking about here, 274 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: was made from the left femur of an adult reindeer, 275 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: and it was seemingly used for a few different purposes. 276 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: First of all, carved sharpening of cutting edges of stone tools, 277 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: So you would have used bone tools to help refine 278 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: and make your stone tools. That makes sense. Uh. This 279 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: would have also been probably used as a scraper and 280 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: quote evidence of meat butchering and bone fracturing to extract 281 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: marrow are evident on the tool. So yeah, this would 282 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: have been a very useful device. And again I included 283 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: a picture for you to see, Joe. And again it's 284 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: one of these things where you know, you know, if 285 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: you if you're not, you didn't know what you're looking at. 286 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: If you're not you know paleontologists, uh, you you might 287 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: not get that what you're looking at is a multi tool. 288 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Are staring at it here for the longest time trying 289 00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: to figure out what it looks like. I realized if 290 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: you turn it sideways, it looks like an iguana head. 291 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: So it does kind of looks like a horner ear 292 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, but that that spike edge there. Yeah. Now, 293 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: another interesting thing about this particular study is that prehistoric 294 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: experts were previously reluctant to attribute bone work tools to Neanderthals, 295 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: but such fines as this from the very late ninety 296 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: nineties and then into the twenty first century changed that. 297 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: I also want to point out that the Eureka Alert 298 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: release on this particular study bears the amusing title quote, 299 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: Yabadaba dough Stone age man wasn't necessarily more advanced than 300 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: than neandertals. Oh my god. Ten points. So that's so good. 301 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait should they have gone with the Abadeba? 302 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: Don't because he was not necessarily more advanced. I don't 303 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: know if that quite makes sense. Uh, that one was 304 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: probably on the table. I'm guessing. I'm just guessing. And 305 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: then someone's like, oh, man, what if we worked Homer 306 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: into this as well? Fred flint Stone and Homer in 307 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: one single uh science press release title. This is gonna 308 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: be great. All Right, we're gonna take a quick break, 309 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: but when we come back, we are going to discuss 310 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: more about bone tools and bone technology. Thank alright, we're back. 311 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: So bone technology stands alongside stone technology is as a 312 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: key marker of technological and cognitive development. Even if we're 313 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: not putting all of our eggs in the O d 314 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: K basket, so you won't really find it popping up 315 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: in extant non human animals. But how about how about this? 316 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: You mentioned old rattle shirt earlier. Um, you mentioned bone armor, 317 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: and that idea brings to buy not only old rattle shirt, 318 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: but it makes me think of the Kurgan from Highlander. 319 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: Remember that bone armor that he wears or it's like 320 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: bone augmented armor, don't do the necromongers in in in 321 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: Chronicles of Riddick were bone armor. I don't remember. I 322 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: mean they certainly have some some dark, gloomy, you know, 323 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 1: necromantic aspects to their armor. I don't remember if they 324 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: actually had any real bone but but certainly they would 325 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: have appreciated those who wore without a doubt. Another example 326 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: that's really burned into my mind is the character General 327 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: Cal from Willow. You saw Willow, Yes, yes, yes, yes, 328 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: it's been a long time, but yeah, he was the 329 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: sub villain in that particular movie. And of course he 330 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: was played by Pat Roach, everyone's favorite former pro wrestler, 331 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: British heavy man. Uh. You know, he's alway, he was 332 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: always fighting, he's he's what he's He's been killed by 333 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: Indiana Jones, he's been killed by Conan the Barbarian, all 334 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: the greats. In fact, he was he played the sorcerer 335 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: in Conan the Destroyer. Uh if you're really wait a minute, 336 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: did the Sorcerer and Conan the Destroyer also have bone 337 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: armor and get like a sword thrown through his head 338 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: or something? Um, it was the scene with the mirrors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 339 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: really a fantastic sequence. I really need to I can't 340 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this. I really need watch Conan the 341 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: Destroyer again, because it does have some great two scenes there. 342 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: It has a reputation for being quite bad, but we 343 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: should revisit anyway. It had a tough act to follow, 344 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: for sure, but it has some some pretty wonderful magic 345 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: in it, as I recall, certainly really more overt, you know, 346 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: fantasy magic than what you find in the first film. Uh. Well, anyway, 347 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: this is making me wonder. Okay, bone armor real thing? 348 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: Did anybody ever actually try to wear armor made out 349 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: of bones? Well? You know, obviously there's some problems with 350 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: the idea. I mean, it would it would be ideal 351 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: if there was a slightly larger bipedal creature that had 352 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: bones and bone plates that were just already perfectly made 353 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: for someone to wear his armor. Uh. You know, I'm 354 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: sure we would hunt it to extinction. Uh in no 355 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: time but I don't know. I wonder if that's been 356 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: that idea has been explored in fantasy that's where all 357 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: the squatches went, so they were to extinction for their bones. Ah, yes, 358 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: the squatch skull makes such a great helm. Well in reality, uh, 359 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, you know, there are probably some examples you 360 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: can come to where people are used utilizing bone ornamentation, 361 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: but in terms of using bone as like the primary 362 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: material and construction, I did run across a really cool example. Uh. 363 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: This is from a three thousand, nine hundred year old 364 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: suit of bone armor that was unearthed in Omsk, Siberia. 365 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: In and uh. In this example, and I encourage anyone 366 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: to look up an example of this. You'll find a 367 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: picture if you just look for bone armor OMPs that's O. M. 368 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: S k Uh. In this example, what we have is 369 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: basically a shirt of plate mail, but with each individual 370 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: plate carved from animal bone. And uh, you know, it 371 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: reminds me too of the sort of the ceremonial jade 372 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: armor that you see used in Chinese culture. Uh, where 373 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: nobody's wearing like just like the big obvious bones of 374 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,959 Speaker 1: a creature, but you have all of these little plates 375 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: of bone that they are then stitched into this this 376 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: garment that is warned by the warrior. And this would 377 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: have been warned, the researchers point out, by a very 378 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: specialized warrior, a hero if you will, a prince of 379 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: the universe, if you will, yes, Well, do we know 380 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: exactly what the pros and cons of this type of 381 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: armor would have been if it involved bone? Like? Are 382 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: there like? How does that compare to standard materials? Do 383 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: do we know anything about that? About the it's durability? 384 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is something we we need 385 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: to explore and if a future like full on a 386 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: look at armor, which is something we've been talking about 387 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: wanting to do for a while. But I mean, basically, 388 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: we do see so many different approaches to armor in 389 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: different cultures, depending on available resources. You know. We we've 390 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: discussed in the past, Uh the Inca and how Inca 391 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: armor depended so heavily on fiber, you know, and uh, 392 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: and it could apparently it was apparently quite effective in 393 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: their engagements. Uh. Certainly you get into cultures that have 394 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: more access to uh the various metal working UH strategies 395 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: and you see the metal armor. Uh. This seems to 396 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: to make sense though, because you would have a durable 397 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: material that would would augment whatever, you know, kind of 398 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: like hide based armor. You're you're you're you're creating. Uh, 399 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: but it's gonna be it's gonna be lighter than using 400 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: little bits of stone. It's gonna be lighter than weighing 401 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: yourself down with this with an enormous stone garment. Uh. 402 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: So I think that's it's basically it's just gonna come 403 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: down to material availability. Now you said this was unearthed 404 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: in Omsk in Siberia. I wonder would the people living 405 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: in this region have had access to many other types 406 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: of resources to make armor out of, or would would 407 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: be closer to like the the Bone House in uh 408 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: In in the Ice age situation where basically this is 409 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: what you got. Yeah, I like I said, I feel 410 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: like resource availability is a is one of the key 411 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: aspects of this. And uh, this would have been um, 412 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: this would have been Bronze a age UM technology basically. Uh. 413 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: The article I was reading about this from the Siberian 414 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: Times titled Warriors thirty year old suit of are of 415 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: the Bone Armor unearthed OMPs UH from September six, two 416 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen. Uh. They mentioned that that at the at 417 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: the time, uh, in the individual using this armor and 418 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: uh and also the individuals they would have have battled. 419 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: You would have found the weapons at the time consisting 420 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: of bone and stone arrowheads, but also bronze knives, spears 421 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: tipped with bronze and bronze axes and uh. And they 422 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: contend that this sort of armor would have held up 423 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: reasonably well against the armors of the time, and therefore 424 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: this would have been like a very precious suit. This 425 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: would have been like, this would have been high end again, 426 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: the stuff a a true hero would wear, and not 427 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: just for decorative reasons, actually like for functional reasons. Yeah. 428 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: They seem to think that this would have this would 429 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: have been functional. Yeah, alright, well I'm getting some Yeah. 430 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean that the artistic interpretation looks looks rather cool, 431 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: rather stylish. You know, it's not rattle shirt. It's not 432 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: nearly as intimidating in terms of looking like you're just 433 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: covered in bones. But it has trans it has used 434 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: the bone as a raw material for their technology. All right, 435 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: we need to take a quick break, but we'll be 436 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: right back with more. And we're back. So earlier we 437 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: talked about octopods, uh creating their bone middens and in 438 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: doing so, remaking the local ecosystem. And uh, I haven't 439 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: an example here that that is really interesting that that 440 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: I ran across concerning humans doing much the same way. 441 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: In two thousands sixteen, researchers from the University of Georgia 442 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: discussed how native people's in southwest Florida, known as the Caloosa, 443 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: engaged in landscape engineering quote essentially terraforming. According to study 444 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: lead and University of Georgia anthropologist Victor Thompson, all right, 445 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: so how would this work? Okay, so what we're dealing 446 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: with fisher gatherer hunter people here. You know, they're depending 447 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: a lot on on gathering up um and and and 448 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: hunting creatures that live in and around the water. So 449 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: what they would have done is they would have piled 450 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: their accumulated shells, all the shells of the creatures that 451 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: they've scavenged and uh, you know for food already. They 452 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: would put these in massive heaps to construct water bound towns, 453 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: essentially artificial islands. Hundreds of millions of shells would have 454 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: ultimately been required to produce these islands. But again, it's 455 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: it's very much in keeping with sore of what those 456 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: octopods are doing, and and also ties back to what 457 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: we were talking about with the mammoth's early on, Like 458 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: you're accumulating these leftovers, these remnants, uh, these these hard 459 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: materials that that are the results of your lifestyle. And 460 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: then you put all that together, that's a lot of material. 461 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: You can start doing things with it. You can build uh, 462 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: some sort of a small palace out of them, or 463 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: you can keep them together, you know, add mud and 464 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: other materials and essentially start remaking the landscape that you 465 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 1: live in. Yeah, letting these inedible animal products not just 466 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: become trash, but become building materials, become tools, become a 467 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: way of shaping your world. Now, in terms of other 468 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: bone structures and human culture, you'll find various examples of 469 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: this as well. Various crips and ossuaries come to mind. 470 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: You know, bone houses that at times have say walls 471 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: or structures that are decorated with bones, if not made 472 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: of bones and stuff to all Your mind actually has 473 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: an older episode about ossuaries that I would refer listeners to. 474 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: That is what I did with Julie Douglas several years ago. 475 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: But one of the more amusing and less gloomy. Examples 476 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: of this sort of thing that I came across is 477 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: that the fossil Bone Cabin in Medicine Bow, Wyoming, which 478 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: you absolutely should look up a picture of. There's Anatlas 479 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: Obscure article about it as well, and it is this. 480 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: Uh it first, it just looks like a rock little house, 481 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, nothing too gloomy, nothing too weird, but it's 482 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: just standing out in the middle of nowhere. Were just 483 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: kind of like waste land landscape around it. And it 484 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: has a sign out front at least when this picture 485 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: was taken that says believe it or not. And uh, 486 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: this cabin is is itself only about eighty years old, 487 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: but it's built using rock that contains fossilized dinosaur bone fragments, 488 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: So essentially it is a dinosaur bone house out in 489 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: the middle of Wyoming. I want to be I'm gonna 490 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: be the Indiana Jones of this house. This belongs in 491 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: a museum. Yeah, you know, Joe, we don't have any 492 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: any live shows coming up, but I'm just gonna go 493 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: and say it. If we could book this location or 494 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: for a for a live show, I would do it. 495 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: We maybe we only have like one wyoming listener out there. Uh, 496 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: the possibly come, but it would still be worth it 497 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: to record in the Believe it or not, fossil dinosaur cabin. 498 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: Wyoming mind blowers out there, chime in, let us know 499 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 1: you exist, tell us contact and stuff to blow your 500 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: mind dot com. If enough of you let us know what, 501 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: we'll try to see if we can do a show 502 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: from the roof. All right, we're beginning to to reach 503 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: the end here. But Joe, I understand you have one 504 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: more gnarly bone palace denizen to discuss with us here. Well, yeah, 505 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: I was thinking about other species that practice something like 506 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: the prehistoric bone lords the Russian plane, and I came 507 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: across evidence of a marvelous wasp species that I think 508 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: would have had a real affinity for the mammoth bone houses. 509 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: This animal lives in southeast China and it's known as 510 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: due to a genia O sari um. You can probably 511 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: hear in the the second part of its species name 512 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: O sari um. That's named after the ossuaries right the 513 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: the the human bone houses where where bones are stored 514 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: or sometimes you in construction um. And this is also 515 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: known that this animal is known as now the bone 516 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: house wasp. Now, the use of the word bone there 517 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: might be a little misleading, because while this wasp absolutely 518 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: does practice corpse architecture, it's bricks are not the bones 519 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: of mammals, but the crumpled exoskeletons of ants. And I 520 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: gotta give credit to Gwyn Pearson, writing for Wired, for 521 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: one of the best article leads I've ever read. So 522 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: she's writing an article about this animal, and she starts 523 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: with a quote from Conan the Barbarian. You know that 524 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: scene where the General asks Conan what is best in life? 525 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: And Conan says, of course, to cross your enemies, see 526 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: them driven before you, And here the lamentations of the women, 527 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: and they all laugh. You know, ha ha. That is good. 528 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: But Pearson goes on to say, a newly described wasp 529 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: species would disagree. What is best in life is to 530 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: feed your children living spiders and build a wall around 531 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: your nursery in which you've entombed the bodies of giant ants. 532 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty good point of comparison, because 533 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,479 Speaker 1: it's like um the same way that the you know, 534 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: the the general riding out over the step, you know, 535 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: must project strength in order to in his mind, protect 536 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: his own clan. This uh, this female wasp that that 537 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: builds this nest out of dead insects is also doing 538 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: it in a way from a place of love. Yeah. Yeah, 539 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: this is a wonderful organism, if memory serves. I did 540 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: a monster blog post about them. Uh, back when we 541 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: had blogs. I did one comparing the good old days. Yeah, 542 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: I did one comparing this species to the creeper from 543 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: the Jeeper Creepers movie, which is another entitated like builds 544 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: stuff out of dead things. Really, I guess kind of 545 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: a common trope, or at least not an uncommon trope 546 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: in the world of fictional monsters. But here we have 547 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: the real deal that the natural world example. This was 548 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: the only example that I could really find of this 549 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: being done with insects. And maybe there's another one, but 550 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: but I didn't come across it. So this species and 551 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: its unique nest building strategy was described in the paper 552 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: in Plos one by Michael Stob, Michael Ohl, Chaodong Jou, 553 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: and Alexandra Maria Klein Uh and the paper was called 554 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: a unique nest protection strategy in a new species of 555 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: spider wasps. So the species was found and described during 556 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: a biodiversity survey in the forests of young Z Province 557 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: and uh So. The bone house wasp is a pompolid, 558 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: which is a family of spider hunting wasps. This also 559 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: includes the famous tarantula hawk and there are a bunch 560 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: of different species of pompolids, but most are pretty similar 561 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: in their basic survival and reproduction strategy. A lot of 562 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: times the adults on their own would seem to be 563 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: fairly peaceful. A lot of them are you know, sort 564 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: of vegetarian nectar feeders, but when it's time to reproduce 565 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: and provide for the next generation, that's when the true 566 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: horror comes in, so that they tend to be solitary 567 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: row other than living in colonies like so many other 568 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: bees and wasps. And the standard predatory reproductive strategy is 569 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: that a female wasp, a female pomp lid, will find 570 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: a spider and then sting the spider, and the sting 571 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: will paralyze it, and it will drag the still alive 572 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: but paralyzed spider back to a nearby nest and then 573 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: lay an egg, usually a single egg, on the spider's body, 574 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: often like sort of on the abdomen, and then it 575 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: will seal the spider up in this cask of a 576 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: Manteado style live burial, and then the egg hatches and 577 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: the larva begins to eat the spider slowly inside out 578 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: as it grows, often saving the most vital internal organs 579 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: for last man, I love wasps um. Yeah, you know, 580 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: I actually wrote how wasps work for How Stuff Works 581 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: years and years ago, and I remember that was one 582 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: of the features. One of the many features about wasps 583 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: in general that I love is that, yeah that adults 584 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: solitary wasps mostly feed on nectar, but then they spend 585 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: most of their time foraging food for their carnivorous younglings. Yeah. Well, 586 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: I mean it makes me think like the human analogy 587 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: would be like an adult an adult who is vegan, 588 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: but they also are like hunting animals for their for 589 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: their babies to like eat while they're still alive. Baby 590 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: needs meat, Baby needs a living meat in the nursery, 591 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: but the hunt entirely powered by blueberry smoothies. Um. So, 592 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: what makes this bone house wasp different from the other 593 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: pomplids is the strategy that it uses to protect the 594 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: nest where its larva gets sealed in with its food source. 595 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: And uh and so the basic idea here is that 596 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: the nest will have a vestibular cell or sort of 597 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 1: like an outer cell area where the adult wasp will 598 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: pack in the dead bodies of ants. And uh so 599 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: the nest of the species the researchers found were less 600 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: vul norable to attacks then the nests of other similar wasps. 601 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: And this would would seem to suggest that the dead 602 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: ants play a role in repelling predators or parasites from 603 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: the nest, likely through chemical cues smells. Right, so there's 604 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: something about these ants that, you know, even when they're dead, 605 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: they give off this smell like, oh, that's something I 606 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: don't want to mess with, and the predators will go away, 607 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, an ant colony can be 608 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: a formidable adversary. You know. This also reminds me of 609 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: another group of famous cinematic corpse defilers, uh, the chainsaw 610 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: family from Texas chainsaw mascre because what do they do 611 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: with the various bones uh and uh and fragments that 612 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: they have left over? They hang from the trees right 613 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: surrounding the compound. Uh, you know, almost to warn people away. Uh, 614 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: you know, except for of course, the meddling teenagers that 615 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,479 Speaker 1: are central to the plot. Well, I mean it makes 616 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: me think back to the to the bone lords, the 617 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: prehistoric peoples of the Russian plane. Obvious, again, there is 618 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: no direct evidence whatsoever that the bones that they built 619 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: these rings out of were in any way to repel predators. 620 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: But now I'm just trying to imagine for a second, 621 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: could could play any kind of role like that? Could 622 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: there be some significance We're not imagining where this is. 623 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it gives off a stink like a carnivor's den 624 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: or something. And I don't know, pure guesswork. I mean, 625 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: I guess any kind of any kind of benefit you'd 626 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: get like that, you'd probably also get get concurrent downsides 627 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: of stinking like meat and attracting carnivores in the process. 628 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: But but you can easily see with this wasp example, 629 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: how like this is the sort of thing that it 630 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: would likely emerge out of just the keeping of a midden, 631 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, like that the leftovers of these meedles are 632 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: around and or in the nest, and then in some 633 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: cases they can they can come to have a you know, 634 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: a key uh you know benefit, They can offer a 635 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: key benefit to the nest itself. Okay, So if you 636 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: were going to play the strategy and try to plan 637 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: something around your house to keep people out that worked 638 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: on a on the basis of smell, what would it be? 639 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: What would repel everything and attract nothing? Oh, I mean 640 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: there are plenty of grizzly examples, but um but you know, 641 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 1: an actual real life example, and this is completely ridiculous, 642 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: but there have been times where I've been working, um, 643 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: on my laptop on my front porch, and once the 644 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: mosquitoes are active, I'll kill a mosquito and they'll be 645 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: this weird idea that I should leave the corpse of 646 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: the mosquito out where the others can see it as 647 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: a warning, you know, that they shouldn't mess with me 648 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: because I will kill them. They're not going to be 649 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: fast enough. Um but but of course that's just ludicrous 650 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: on my part. But there's like some sort of weird 651 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: instinct to do that, to make an example out of 652 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: the creature that is that is hunting me. Yeah, I 653 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: would say it probably works to the opposite effect. You've 654 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: created a martyr and now they must avenge their falling sister. Yeah, 655 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: there's that. There's that, But in terms of like, actually, yeah, 656 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, hanging skulls outside my my home. I 657 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: mean around Halloween we all do that, but that that 658 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: actually has the opposite effect that people in Yeah, well, 659 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, going back to that first episode 660 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: about the about the bone circles, I mean, some of 661 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: the hypotheses offered do seem interesting, but I've still got 662 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: this mystery banging around in my head. I'm not going 663 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,439 Speaker 1: to forget about this. Yeah, it's it's one of those 664 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: that really forces you to to think long and hard 665 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: about you know, who our ancestors were, and you know 666 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: what was important to them in this uh, this this 667 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: this time of great trial. All right. So there you 668 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: have it, a second dose of the Bone Palace, more 669 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: examples of bone technology, bone collection, and the remaking of 670 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: our world with the remnants of those that came before. 671 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to check out other 672 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: Grizzly episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, that you 673 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: will find them wherever you find our podcast, and you 674 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: can find just about an a where if you go 675 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, that will 676 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: shoot you over to the I Heart listening for our show, 677 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: and you can of course subscribe and listen there as well. 678 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our amazing audio producer Seth 679 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 680 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 681 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, to let us 682 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: know you listen and you listen from Wyoming, or just 683 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: to say hi, you can email us at contact. That's 684 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow 685 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more 686 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 687 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. 688 00:39:48,440 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: B the Stars by the Bottle pe