1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 3: A star is born Elon On mars Juson Kennedy. 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 4: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 5: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 5: I feel for the guys. I would say ninety eight 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 5: percent really appreciate what he does. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 6: But those two percent. 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 5: That are nasty, they are all pay in four folks. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 7: We were meant for great things in the United States 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 7: of America, and Elon reminds. 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 6: Us of that we don't have a fourth branch of 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 6: governments called Elon. 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: Musk mock mus. 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 7: Welcome to Elon and Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon muskets Tuesday, 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 7: May sixth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. Now Elon may 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 7: be preparing to wind down his time in Washington, but 18 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 7: Doge certainly isn't done yet. Just last week, it's stepped 19 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 7: up at scrutiny of the Securities in Exchange Commission, and 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 7: Elon's relationship with the powerful financial regulator has been shall 21 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 7: we say tens. 22 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: The two sides have squared. 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 7: Off again and again over the years, and he stands 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 7: to benefit enormously from a smaller and perhaps more lenient SEC. 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Elon is on his way to founding. 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 7: His own brand spanking new city down along the Mexican border. 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: Madlin Meckleberg will. 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 7: Join us later to talk about the birth of Starbase Texas, 29 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 7: but we'll start with Doge and the SEC. 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 3: And to do that, I'm. 31 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 7: Here with our regulars, BusinessWeek's Max Chafkin and Ace Elon 32 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 7: reporter Dana Hall. Max, Dana, welcome to you both. 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: Hey David, Hey David. 34 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: And from Washington, DC. 35 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 7: We're joined by Nicola White, Bloomberg's SEC reporter Nicola, Hello, 36 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 7: welcome to the show. 37 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: Hi there. 38 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: Okay, so Doze stepping up a bit. It's scrutiny the SEC. 39 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 7: Let's go back to the r archives and remember what 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 7: Musk said about the SEC years ago. 41 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 5: I want to be clear, I do not respect the SEC. 42 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 5: I do not respect them. 43 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 7: Dana Hull tell us a little bit more about those 44 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 7: comments for Musk and help us set the stage here 45 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 7: for Doge's incursion into the SEC. 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 3: Now, So, Elon. 47 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 4: Musk has had a long standing feud with the SEC, 48 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 4: stretching back years. Probably the highlight was in twenty eighteen. 49 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 4: As you all may remember, in August, he attempted to 50 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 4: take Tesla private. He tweeted out that he was, you know, 51 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 4: considering taking tesl private at four twenty a share. That 52 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 4: got him into huge trouble with the SEC. That the 53 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: SEC ultimately fined him twenty million dollars and he couldn't 54 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 4: be chair of the company for at least three years. 55 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 4: And he's just always been super angry at the SEC, 56 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 4: particularly the office in San Francisco, and you know, at 57 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 4: times has called them the short sellar Enrichment Commission. And 58 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 4: this is a guy who's not particularly fond of regulation. 59 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 4: He sees it as holding back you know, industry and 60 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 4: all of his enterprises. And now that he's a very 61 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 4: powerful figure in the Trump administration, I think that he, 62 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 4: you know, of all the agencies where Doge could really 63 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 4: make it smark, I would think that the SEC would 64 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 4: be the one that would have among the most importance 65 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 4: to Musk and his companies. And the SEC has also 66 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 4: investigated Musk's companies with Tesla and the way that it 67 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 4: marketed Autopilot. Nikola knows better than I do, but there 68 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 4: are various probes that have been launched and then it's 69 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 4: not really clear what the status is if they are 70 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 4: still under active investigation, if they've died on the line, 71 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 4: if they've been referred to DOJ or AG offices like. 72 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 4: There are a lot of questions about what happened to 73 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 4: those SEC investigations and where the people leading those investigations 74 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 4: are they still even at the agency. 75 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 8: Yeah, and there's also a lawsuit against Musk for the 76 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 8: way he just or didn't disclose his amassing of Twitter 77 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 8: shares before he basically did a takeover bid, and that's 78 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 8: that was filed days before Trump's inauguration, So it was 79 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 8: like the they squeaked it in right before the administrative change. 80 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 7: And as Dana was just alluding to, do we have 81 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 7: a sense of where that one is. 82 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 3: His purchase of Twitter shares before you launched a bid. 83 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 8: That is a question on everyone's mind. I think I 84 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 8: know several people who have alerts set up for the 85 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 8: docket for that case. Any movement in that case would 86 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 8: be of high interest to anybody watching the SEC, anybody 87 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 8: who's into following what's happening with Elon Musk. We don't 88 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 8: have any update on that yet, and there's a lot 89 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 8: of eyes on what happens to that case. The SEC 90 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 8: is in like a weird position. If they dropped the 91 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 8: case wouldn't look good. If they go full throttle, and like, 92 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 8: you know, try to sue Musk for hundreds of millions 93 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 8: of dollars that also might not look good. So they're 94 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 8: in a very weird, uncomfortable position. 95 00:04:58,400 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 3: I want to go back for second. 96 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 7: Next, what Dana was saying and calling the SEC and 97 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 7: saying it doesn't stand for the Securities in Exchange Commission 98 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 7: Musk that it stands for the short Seller Enrichment Commission. 99 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 6: There was also a vulgar one that he not going 100 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 6: to bring up on this podcast, but well you just 101 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 6: did show it's all right. 102 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: But anyway, and as we. 103 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 7: Know, there is no group of humans in the world 104 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 7: who Elon Musks hates more than the short sellars. And 105 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 7: in his mind, the SEC was just doing the bidding 106 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 7: of the shorts. 107 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 3: He also is called the SEC at one point or 108 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: he eeked or tweeted. 109 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 7: About him, called them shameless puppets of Wall Street. Has 110 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 7: there ever been a human who has been more at 111 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 7: odds and feuded more with the SEC than Elon Musk. 112 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 6: Well, not that I'm aware of I mean, the way 113 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 6: Elon Musk runs his companies is sort of like totally 114 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 6: opposed to everything that the SEC stands for. Like Elon 115 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 6: Musk's empire is a web of conflicts of interest, lots 116 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 6: of self dealing, weird shared ownership stakes, like Musk is. 117 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 3: A sort of weird midnight tweets. 118 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, right, And it's just like a whole bunch 119 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 6: of things that like are not in keeping with the 120 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 6: way the sort of conventional wisdom. 121 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: About how public company. 122 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 2: CEOs are supposed to act. 123 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 6: Now, the one thing I'll say is, this is not 124 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 6: like a secret and that's what kind of always made 125 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 6: this these these disputes with the SEC kind of funny. 126 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 6: It's not like, you know, most Tesla investors and most 127 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 6: of the investors who are in Musk companies understand this 128 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 6: about him, understand that he's different, and that's why they 129 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 6: like him. And so it is this kind of weird 130 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 6: thing where where Musk like seems to continually either violate 131 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 6: securities law or walk right up to the line where 132 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 6: where I don't know, like a neutral observer. 133 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 2: Would probably think he was violating Security's law. 134 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 6: And the SEC has really struggled to and a glove 135 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 6: on him effectively. 136 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: In other words, they've find him, they've found. 137 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 7: Him twenty million dollars, but he hasn't ever changed his behavior. 138 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: He just goes from one. 139 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 6: It's like it's like somebody, it's like a rich guy 140 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 6: who gets caught speeding in his Lamborghini. Right, It's like 141 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 6: he pays a ticket and he and he keeps on driving. 142 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 7: But wasn't he also forced to step down his chair 143 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 7: of Tesla coming out of one of these lawsuits. 144 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, yeah he was forced. But so what, David, 145 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 4: He's still on the board. I mean it's still his board. 146 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 4: He's still the largest chareholder. 147 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: So yeah, he was. 148 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 4: He stepped down his chair. Now Robin Denholm is the chair, 149 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 4: but he's still on the board. 150 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 7: It sounds like a big deal, but it actually doesn't 151 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 7: mean anything. 152 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 6: He had a Twitter sitter, remember, like made him get 153 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 6: a guy, and we always wondered who, Like, who's the 154 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 6: guy who's gotta like vet Elon Musk's tweet this guy, 155 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 6: And you know, for a while it seemed like maybe 156 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 6: it was possible that this was actually happening. I don't know, 157 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 6: it doesn't let me just say, it doesn't seem like 158 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 6: the Twitter sitter was empowered the right to do a 159 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 6: lot of city. 160 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 7: I forgot about that that the SEC made somebody walk 161 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 7: around with his phone as if like you know that 162 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 7: with a person carrying the codes to the nuclear you know, 163 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 7: nuclear warheads that the president has or something. But Nicola, 164 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 7: I want to go back now to the arrival of 165 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 7: Doge at the SEC as it's happened in recent months, 166 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 7: like in you know, branches of government across Washington. 167 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: Any sort of sense. 168 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 7: That you have of what the feeling, what the mood 169 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 7: was like there as this long time nemesis of the 170 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 7: SEC now had all this influence over it. 171 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 8: Yeah, so I think that there was a lot of 172 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 8: briefing for impact and everybody was freaked out about the 173 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 8: arrival of DOGE and what it would mean, just given 174 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 8: Elon Musk's extremely public, extremely you know, it's out there. 175 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 8: He does not like the SEC, and the fact that 176 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 8: he's active litigation with the with the agency, and I 177 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 8: feel like there was a lot more anxiety versus like 178 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 8: what has actually. 179 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 3: Transpired A transpired. 180 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 8: So Doze arrived later than any other like it seemed 181 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 8: like any other agency, like you know, at the beginning, 182 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 8: like USAID got gutted, The CFPB got gutted. There has 183 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 8: been headline after headline about drama at the IRS and 184 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 8: privacy and records and things like that. And the Doge 185 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 8: arrived at the SEC with like much much less fanfare. 186 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 8: It was like initially one guy and the leadership at 187 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 8: the SEC was like, hey, guys, dog is in the building. 188 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 8: Like it wasn't so much cloak and dagger. Like an 189 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 8: email went out staff wide and it said, you know, 190 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 8: there is a liaison or there's liaisons in the agency 191 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 8: with the DOGE person. 192 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 4: You know, proceed, Remind me who is the DOGE person. 193 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 4: I've kind of lost track. We have this like spreadsheet 194 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 4: of all the DOGE people and like how they're tied 195 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 4: to Elon and I'm blanking on is it? 196 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 3: Uh No? 197 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 8: So this is someone His name is Ellie Mashori and 198 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 8: he is a former CFTC attorney and CFTC is another 199 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 8: DC financial regulator that regulates derivatives. And he most recently 200 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 8: was at Kalshi, which is an online trading I don't 201 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 8: want to call it, yeah. 202 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: Like a Silicon Valley act startup. 203 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 8: Yes, So he was in there, and you know, there's 204 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 8: was like we're looking for efficiencies, but like there has 205 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 8: not been the like the crazy headlines of you know, 206 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 8: people you know going in and ripping things up or 207 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 8: walking out with file boxes and things like that. I 208 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 8: think that's, you know, by design in a lot of ways, 209 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 8: because we all knew that, Like Musk has well known 210 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 8: beef with the SEC. 211 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 7: So hold on, just to pause there for a second. 212 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 7: So you're saying it's it's by design. It's known that 213 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 7: Musk has feuded quite a bit with them, So you're saying, 214 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 7: what because it would be such a bad look that 215 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 7: they opted to not go that route. 216 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 217 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 8: And the other thing too, is that the leadership at 218 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 8: the SEC. So now we have a permanent chair, but 219 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 8: there was an interim chair. 220 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: Remind us of who that is. 221 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 8: So the new chair is Paul Atkins, and the interim 222 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 8: chair was Mark YadA, and he kind of did a 223 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 8: lot of restructuring before Doge arrived, and there were voluntary 224 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 8: buyouts and then there was like this more unusual one 225 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 8: time fifty thousand dollars you know, resign early kind of 226 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 8: payout dangle to SEC employees. And the other thing to 227 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 8: remember is that the SEC has an awful lot of power, 228 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 8: but it's a pretty small agency. It's only five thousand 229 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 8: employees and more than five hundred employees, so more than 230 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 8: ten percent have taken these voluntary buyouts, So like, how 231 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 8: much more can you kind of cut? You know, And 232 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 8: then also. 233 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 3: Mark ask Musky, they came, I know five important. 234 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, you also got to keep in mind that, like 235 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 8: the SEC is Wall Street's main regulator. Who likes chaos 236 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 8: in the markets. We've seen that Trump does not like that. 237 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 8: You know, if you cut the SEC down to the 238 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 8: bare bones and there's chaos, that doesn't look good. So 239 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 8: I think there's been a little bit of like, let's 240 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 8: take a lighter touch at the SEC. 241 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 3: I mean that's to be seen right. 242 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 7: From Yeah, but as you were saying it, initially there 243 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 7: was just one person from DOGE there, and then I 244 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 7: think a second was added. And I saw some reporting 245 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 7: last week that we're now up to a third person 246 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 7: from DOGE at the SEC. 247 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 3: Is that right? 248 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, I've seen that reporting also. But again there has 249 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 8: been much less kind of like people freaking out and chatter. 250 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 6: I think just just to step back, like one thing 251 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 6: that has happened during the first few months of the 252 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 6: Trump administration that I don't think Elon Musk anticipated and 253 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 6: I don't think Tesla investors anticipated, is that Trump has 254 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 6: hesitated to like directly expose himself in ways that would 255 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 6: be politically damaging. So like he hasn't handed Musk a 256 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 6: bunch of cash, he hasn't directly dropped cases against must companies. 257 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 6: It does feel like there's hesitancy to do things that 258 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 6: would look like we are just paying back a guy 259 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 6: who bought, you know, who helped us. 260 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: Win this election, who who put up you know, three. 261 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 6: Hundred million or so dollars in contributions related to the election, 262 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 6: and here's the payback. They don't want to do that, 263 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 6: And of course it's reasonable why they wouldn't want to 264 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 6: do that, because that would be a very very bad look. 265 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 6: It be a very bad look to cut the regulator 266 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 6: of Wall Street at a time where there's tons of 267 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 6: anger on both sides because the world's richest man wanted 268 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 6: them to. And so I think when you're seeing, if 269 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 6: we're seeing restraint, the restraint that we're seeing has to 270 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 6: do with the politics of this. 271 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 7: Yep, Nicola, thank you very much for joining us, and 272 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 7: we will see again down Thanks for having me. Now 273 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 7: we're joined by Madelin Mecklberg, our Texas legal reporter, Madlin. 274 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. 275 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 9: Thanks for having me now. 276 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 7: Madeline, tell us all about the formation of this place, 277 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 7: star Base, and about the vote that happened last week, 278 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 7: and then give us like a super abbreviated history of 279 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 7: what led to it. 280 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 5: Try to be abbreviated, but I could talk about this forever. 281 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 5: I'm so excited to have the opportunity to do it today. 282 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 5: It is incredibly fascinating. But basically, the idea for Starbase 283 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 5: started in Texas more than a decade ago, when SpaceX 284 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 5: first started buying land in the very southern tip of 285 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 5: the state along the Gulf of Mexico slash America. 286 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 9: And it really started building in Ernest in twenty eighteen, 287 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 9: and they've created this community of a giant rocket manufacturing facility, 288 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 9: a testing site, and a launch site for SpaceX's Starship rocket. 289 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 9: And essentially what you have there is this huge futuristic 290 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 9: production facility and then dozens of tiny houses and airstream 291 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 9: trailers where employees of SpaceX live with their families, their partners. 292 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 9: It used to be a really quiet retirement community kind 293 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 9: of in the middle of nowhere in Texas. It's really 294 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 9: far out there. But over this past decade period, SpaceX 295 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 9: has been building, They've been growing, and all that growth 296 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 9: culminated in a vote this past weekend where residents overwhelmingly 297 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 9: supported an initiative to create their own city and local government. 298 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: Elon won on an election, Max, you finally got it. 299 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 6: Well, you know, when you fail in Wisconsin to southern Texas, 300 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 6: there you go. 301 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: I will say, I believe almost all the voters work 302 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: for Elon Musk. 303 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 3: Is that right? All of them? 304 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: Like ninety percent? 305 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 9: I don't know, Madeline, that's correct, Yes, that is exactly right. 306 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 5: They all either work for Elon or have a loved 307 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 5: one who works for Elon. 308 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 6: For the most part, Madelin did find the one guy. 309 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 6: I mean, there are a handful of holdouts in this community. 310 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're. 311 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 6: Essentially like the Homer Papa, right, Yeah, he is a 312 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 6: great character. 313 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 3: Tell us about him for a second, Madeline. 314 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 5: That's right. 315 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 9: Homer represents the old guard and what this community used 316 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 9: to be, which was, like I mentioned, a retirement community, 317 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 9: but also a place for people who just wanted to 318 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 9: get away from everybody else. It's like a twenty mile 319 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 9: drive from the closest city, which is Brownsville, which is 320 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 9: to call it a city, you know, a reserve judgment 321 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 9: or that in air quotes in air quotes exactly. But 322 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 9: basically Homer has lived there since the seventies and as 323 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 9: he told us, he used to be able to walk 324 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 9: naked down the beach, down the road. He was totally 325 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 9: by himself down there in this nature preserve. And so 326 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 9: he is part of this really small group, this dwindling 327 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 9: group of landowners who have been there since before SpaceX 328 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 9: and who are who have refused to turn their property 329 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 9: over to Elon and their aff's basically, so they kind 330 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 9: of represent this last resistance to the star base vote. 331 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 9: But obviously that resistance is really tiny in number. 332 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 6: Regular listeners will know. We've talked about this a couple 333 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 6: times on the podcast. Like Madlin's saying was this, it 334 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 6: was kind of, I think served as sort of like 335 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 6: the working man's beach for Brownsville, Like it was a 336 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 6: place where anyone goes, open to the public, and there 337 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 6: was also full of these kind of like you know, 338 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 6: sort of hippy, dippy ish older folks who moved to 339 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 6: the beach, and like this guy that Madeline is describing, 340 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 6: you know, sort of living on off the grid bohemian 341 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 6: lifestyle and. 342 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 3: All of a sudden life we all aspire to, Yeah, 343 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 3: and all of. 344 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 6: A sudden, like these gigantic rockets are going off there 345 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 6: all the time, and the ground is literally shaking. 346 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 7: Right, and it's suddenly become like almost the most futuristic 347 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 7: or one of the most futuristic places on earth. So 348 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 7: Madeline until this weekend, or perhaps even including now, I 349 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 7: don't know how things work postpote. This whole area was 350 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 7: just unincorporated. If someone's home burned down or was burning down, 351 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,239 Speaker 7: there was no fire department, there's no blank or did 352 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 7: they lean on Brownsville for that sort of thing. 353 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, they were unincorporated, but it wasn't like they were 354 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 5: totally off by themselves. Basically how it works in Texas 355 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 5: is if you're not a city, the local government authority 356 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 5: that is over all those things is the county. So 357 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 5: in this case that's Cameron County, and they've kind of 358 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 5: reached an equilibrium with them as far as offering public services. 359 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 5: They do have fire service out there, they do have 360 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 5: electricity and utilities and water and all those things that 361 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 5: make it pleasant to live in house. But right, they 362 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 5: have not had a local city government up to this point. 363 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 4: Madland, you see this effort bye you on to create 364 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 4: his own city as part of like this larger push there. 365 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of talk about freedom cities 366 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 4: and like the network state, Like what is his grand 367 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 4: and is it just that like they wanted it to 368 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 4: be easier to build housing for their employees, or is 369 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 4: he going to start like building schools and creating his 370 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 4: own like star based police force. Like how grand of 371 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 4: a scheme is this? 372 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 5: That is the question. Basically, you'll you and your listeners 373 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 5: will be unsurprised to know that we got basically no 374 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 5: information from SpaceX about this, no information from the candidates 375 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 5: running for public office about what their big vision is. 376 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 5: But you talked about housing and building, and I think 377 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 5: that is really the primary and immediate thing that we're 378 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 5: going to see happen in this case. What they have 379 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 5: said is that they want to be able to control 380 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 5: the pace of their own growth and development in the region. 381 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 5: At this point, if they want to build anything new, 382 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 5: they have to get permission from Cameron County. 383 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 3: And has Cameron County pushed back or slowed them down? 384 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 9: Well, we know that about a month before they requested 385 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 9: this election, Cameron County rejected a proposal by SpaceX to 386 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 9: build moremultiple townhouses on a few different lots, and so 387 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 9: at that time, an engineer for SpaceX basically said, you know, 388 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 9: we have hundreds of people on a wait list who 389 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 9: are dying to come live. 390 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 5: Out here in our little community, we promise, and we 391 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 5: really need to be able to build as much housing 392 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 5: as we can. And so they haven't come out and 393 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 5: said explicitly, you know, we're frustrated by the pace of 394 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 5: approvals and the rejection we're getting from Cameron County. But 395 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 5: that's kind of the unspoken idea here of what initiated 396 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 5: this effort. 397 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 4: So who is the mayor? Like, the city now has 398 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 4: like three elected officials, right, So who exactly is the mayor? 399 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 3: Again? That's right. 400 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 5: So they've created it's a city commission technically, and it's 401 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 5: got a mayor and two city commissioners, all of whom 402 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 5: are current or former SpaceX employees. The mayor is a 403 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 5: guy named Bobby Peden, and I can pull up his 404 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 5: title for you. He's the vice president of Texas Test 405 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 5: and Launch down in Starbase, and that's from his LinkedIn 406 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 5: page because he did not answer my many phone calls 407 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 5: and emails and letters sent to his address. 408 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: I mean, we all know who the mayor really is 409 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 2: going to be right. 410 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 7: With the mergers, since the guy was like the huge 411 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 7: statue of his of his face there, you know, is 412 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 7: it that one that was by the way about the statue? 413 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: What's up with that? 414 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's it's as you drive out there, it's a 415 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: really surreal experience because you go from a city to 416 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: basically nothing for many miles on this highway, and there's 417 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of trees on the side of the road, 418 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the trees go away 419 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: and you see. 420 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 9: A big gold bust of mister Musk's head and it's. 421 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: Right next to these Oh it's gold. 422 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 9: It's a color golden, maybe bronze. I don't know the 423 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 9: exact metal material. 424 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 5: Please don't quiz me about that. 425 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: But wait, is it a full body or just not 426 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: just the head? Actually no, just just. 427 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 9: The head shoulders up. 428 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 5: I think they're shoulders a neck at least, but it's 429 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 5: sitting right next to also these two big concrete slabs 430 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 5: that have some art of the doge dog, and then 431 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 5: another portrait of Elon as well, so it greets you 432 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 5: as you're driving out there. 433 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 7: Just like Homer likes to hang out with his dogs, 434 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 7: as you guys told me so are so too does 435 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 7: Elon the Boss hang out with his doze dogs. 436 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 3: How tall is this thing made? One? 437 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 5: That's a really great question. 438 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 3: Very tall? 439 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 5: I don't I don't have an exact matter for you, 440 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 5: but it's imposing, we'll say, Max. 441 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: This is although, of course, part of a broader. 442 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 7: I don't know if campaigns the term, but initiated by 443 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 7: Musk to put his stamp on Texas all across the state. 444 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, and not just Texas, but to kind of present 445 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 6: himself as as he long has as as this kind 446 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 6: of industrial titan, as this guy who's you know, making 447 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 6: a lot of industry from yeah, from from as he 448 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 6: sees it. 449 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: Nothing. I mean. 450 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 6: One of the weirdest parts of of the the story, 451 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 6: as we've talked about it before, is you know, as 452 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 6: Musk saw it, he just sort of spun the globe 453 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 6: and you know, put his finger on a map where 454 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 6: it looked like it wasn't totally inhabited. 455 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: Of course, there were there were people there, but just 456 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: not that many. 457 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 6: And like Yeah, like creating this kind of beacon of 458 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 6: American rocketry and private industry. You can see how this 459 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 6: this could, you know, assuming they're able to build a 460 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 6: bunch of houses and continue growing this uh community and 461 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 6: this headquarters or whatever it is, this place launch site. 462 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 6: You know, it's gonna be a real monument to Elon Muskin, 463 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 6: not just because of. 464 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: The of the bus. Are the are the residents gonna 465 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: have to have his portrait in their home? 466 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 7: I mean, I don't know, if I don't know if 467 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 7: half probably strongly encouraged to matt next steps that we 468 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 7: will be seeing coming out of Starbase on its way 469 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 7: to full proper municipality. 470 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 5: Right, So, there's a lot of stuff that has to 471 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 5: be worked out. Honestly, when you create a city, there's 472 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 5: a lot. Texas gives a lot of leeway to cities 473 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 5: to determine what they want to do and what they 474 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 5: want to offer. So this city council is going to 475 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 5: have to sit down and decide do we want to 476 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 5: have a library system, do we want to have parts, 477 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 5: do we want to you know what, what do we 478 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 5: keep going? 479 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 9: That's a great guess, we'll see what happens. They're going 480 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 9: to have to decide. 481 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 5: A huge question is going to be money. You know, 482 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 5: if they want to do anything, they're going to need money. Traditionally, 483 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 5: cities make money by imposing property taxes on its residents, 484 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 5: but SpaceX owns practically all of the property in this 485 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 5: area and its employees rent from it, so it will 486 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 5: be if they do impose a property tax, it's a 487 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 5: tax that SpaceX is largely going to pay. But we 488 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 5: know also that cities can accept donations from a friendly 489 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 5: company that maybe has an interest in the community, So 490 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 5: that's that's something that we could look out for. I 491 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 5: don't know if anyone. 492 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 9: Yeah, there's there a lot to choose from down there, 493 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 9: so it could be anyone, but they'll have to publicly 494 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 9: disclose it. 495 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 5: And I think that's going to be the biggest thing 496 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 5: if I can just say, and aside about what I'm 497 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 5: personally excited about about this city, is that, unlike a company, 498 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 5: a government is in theory supposed to be open. They 499 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 5: have to have open meetings, they have to maintain public 500 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 5: records that they turn over to friendly reporters when they 501 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 5: file open records requests. So I think that's going to 502 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 5: be one of the first real tests of how this 503 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 5: city is operating. But that also involves them making decisions 504 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 5: about are we going to hire who are we going 505 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 5: to hire to manage these records? Where are we going 506 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 5: to house these records? Are they going to create a 507 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 5: city hall? Like, there's a ton of unanswered questions that 508 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 5: while legally they may be a city now, I mean, 509 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 5: it's it's. 510 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 6: A potentially like huge economic boon for this community. And 511 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 6: I'm not just talking about Starbase. I'm talking about larger 512 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 6: Texas community. But it's something that's going to remake the geography, 513 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 6: the way it feels, and of course the culture. 514 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I guess all these places now we're 515 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 7: going to have all these huge busts of musk made 516 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 7: by the way. So Starbase it's you know, the it's 517 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 7: a teeny tiny area, right, this town it's got to 518 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 7: be one of the smaller towns in the country. 519 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 3: One just over a mile. 520 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's one point four or five square miles and 521 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 5: it's really lake long and narrow along the State Highway. 522 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 5: It's very odd. 523 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 3: That is indeed super odd. Meta. This is terrific. 524 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 7: You will have to come back again and tell us 525 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 7: As the town of star Base grows and booms and 526 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 7: they add and build more and more. 527 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 5: We'll have you back on that would be fabulous. Thanks 528 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 5: for having me. 529 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 7: Now, Max and Dan, you know, I actually had a 530 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 7: plan to do a sort of serious feud segment here 531 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 7: at the end Elon versus his very own Tesla board, because, 532 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 7: as reported by the Wall Street Journal, the Tesla board 533 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 7: has been, you know, doing a little bit of a 534 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 7: CEO search, thinking about maybe hut just in case we 535 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 7: need to replace this guy, which was kind of interesting. 536 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 7: But you know, Max, you think you've found something bigger, 537 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 7: more important than Elon Musk versus his very own Tessel board. 538 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 6: Two wars on that CEO search. The board has disputed 539 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 6: that right. They've said that they are not conducting a 540 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 6: CEO search. Elon is the right, and the Journal is 541 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,959 Speaker 6: essentially saying that they stand by their phy. 542 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, I. 543 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 4: Just want to say that, like Tesla's board has kicked 544 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 4: the tires on finding a new CEO before this came 545 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 4: up during in the DELA. This came up in court 546 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 4: in Delaware Transfer Court during the dispute about his pay package, 547 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 4: where like Antonio Gracias and James Murdoch who you know, 548 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 4: current former war members basically said, Oh, yeah, we've looked 549 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 4: for CEOs before, but you know, we just could never 550 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 4: find anyone with the vision and the drive to like 551 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 4: lead the company. So Elon is the CEO. And I 552 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 4: think that this is kind of what happened here. Like, 553 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 4: I think it's a great scoop by the Wall Street Journal, 554 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 4: but like the board has kicked the tires on trying 555 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 4: to find someone new in the past. It sounds like 556 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 4: they've done it again. But the story said that they 557 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 4: were like looking to hire a search firm, not that 558 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 4: they like, Like was how wide and the serious this 559 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 4: attempt was this time is not clear? 560 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 2: All right. 561 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 6: The real feud, though, forget the board of the world's 562 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 6: biggest company may be attempting to replace the world's richest man. 563 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 6: The real feud is between Elon Musk and the Westlake 564 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 6: Hills like homeowners Association or whatever. These the homeowners of 565 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 6: this community in Texas where Elon Musk has relocated. 566 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 3: Not okay, not near Star based different. 567 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 6: Now, this is a sort of you know, suburban, upper 568 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 6: middle class suburb in Austin where Elon Musk has a home. 569 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 6: And The New York Times has a absolutely hilarious story 570 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 6: about Elon Musk's battle with some of the residents who, unsurprisingly, 571 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 6: you spend a lot of money on your you know, 572 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 6: suburban home, you pay property taxes, whatever. 573 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: It's not great when like a rich, kind of erratic 574 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: late night. 575 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 6: Partying, late night flowing buying guy shows with a huge 576 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 6: security detail shows up in your community. 577 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: They put up a giant fence around this home. Residents 578 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 2: are mad about that. 579 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 6: There's a gate to let staff in and out of 580 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 6: this property that Elon Musk owns. 581 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: They're not happy about that. 582 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 3: And because they think it's an iore. What's the issue. 583 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like a lot of traffic and so on. Yeah, 584 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 6: it's an i soore. Oh yeah, there as many of 585 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 6: these residentsy it. They're violating lots of the sort of 586 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 6: homeowners associated the zoning rules for this community. 587 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. 588 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 4: Westlake Hills in Austin is like it's like the Atherton. 589 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 4: It's like Atherton. It's like it is the place where wealthy, 590 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 4: it's like it's it's the wealthy, hilly, leafy like area 591 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 4: of Austin that's near the Colorado River, and it's where 592 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 4: Elon now lives. It's where it's where Elon supposedly was 593 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: building this compound. So you know, the idea was that 594 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 4: he had like a house and then multiple houses, with 595 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 4: the sort of vision that eventually maybe all of his 596 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 4: you know, female friends and children would potentially all live together. 597 00:29:58,600 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: But that hasn't really worked out. 598 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 4: Like they're not they're not all living with him. 599 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wait, let me get to the feud. 600 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 6: So Paul Hemmer, tesla owner, longtime resident, got so frustrated 601 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 6: with the Elon Musk's comings and goings and construction he 602 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 6: got a drone. He flew it over the house to 603 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 6: check for violations. He started reporting those violations to local officials, 604 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 6: and Elon Musk hit back with his own complaints about 605 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 6: Paul Hemmer, saying. 606 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 3: That he's flying drones over my house. 607 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: Okay. 608 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 6: What they said is that he was walking around the 609 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 6: community naked. Mister Hemmer denies this. He was just wearing 610 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 6: black underwear. Now there was a second allegation that he 611 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 6: peeded on the street, and now Hemmer and he. 612 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 3: Actually didn't kissed while he was walking his dogs. 613 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 6: Response to the query from The New York Times, mister 614 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 6: Hemmer said, the cameras got me. 615 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: It's it's scary. They have guys sitting and watching me pee, 616 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: So he caught to that one. 617 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 6: I don't know the disputing the charge of nakedness, but 618 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 6: but this is, of course comes you just gotta go. 619 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like no one's on the street. 620 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 6: I'm sort of somewhat sympathetic to Paul Hemmer's complaint. 621 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 7: I'm not entirely sure it's better than Elon versus the 622 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 7: Tesla board, but it is. It is good, all right, Max, 623 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 7: do keep reporting this out. 624 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 6: I guess it's just like a lesson to all of us, 625 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 6: Like before you complain about your neighbors, your billionaire neighbors gate, 626 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 6: you know, make sure your own house is in order. 627 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 3: Max, Dana, thanks as always. 628 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 4: Okay, guys, that was great. 629 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 3: Bye. 630 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 7: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong Lake, Maples Handles 631 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 7: engineering and daper self fact checks. Our editor is Anna 632 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 7: Massa Rakas, and our supervising producers Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon 633 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 7: In theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and 634 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 7: Alex sugi Era. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, 635 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 7: and Sage Bowman as the head of Bloomberg Podcast. A 636 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 7: big thanks as always to our supporters Joel Webber and Bradstone. 637 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 3: I'm David Papadoppolos. 638 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 7: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 639 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 7: it'll help other listeners find us. 640 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: See you next week.