Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York
Speaker 1: and Va Loow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. AI. Capex in focus
Speaker 2: after Meta, Microsoft and Tesla or report earnings with mixed
Speaker 2: fortunes FUS.
Speaker 3: Apple is also set to report earnings later today, with
Speaker 3: holiday season results and the impact of memory prices top
Speaker 3: of mind for investors.
Speaker 2: And Amazon reported hundreds of thousands of pieces of content
Speaker 2: it believed included child sexual abuse material, which if found
Speaker 2: in data gathered to improve its AI models. We have
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg reporting and it.
Speaker 3: Is significant in reporting at that, But let's turn our
Speaker 3: attention to what's happening on the markets right now, ed
Speaker 3: because it is a tough day, to say the least.
Speaker 3: It is all about capex in AI and you're going
Speaker 3: to go there with the individual names. But I point
Speaker 3: to a NASDAK one hundred that's having its worst day.
Speaker 4: Since November of last year.
Speaker 3: Two months now, we're down by two percentage points, some
Speaker 3: huge moves on individual names, but Crypto also languishing, were
Speaker 3: up by five percent. We're eighty four thousand at the moment,
Speaker 3: so much of being in digital gold in this currently
Speaker 3: debasement environment, it ain't working out for this particular area
Speaker 3: of gold because now it's just working as a risk asset.
Speaker 4: What are you looking at?
Speaker 2: Look, look, since we come on air like there is
Speaker 2: a bit of a vibe shift or a deepening of
Speaker 2: concern around AI capital expenditures. Two very similar stories that
Speaker 2: starts going in different directions. Meta told us this year
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty five billion dollars of capex, but
Speaker 2: showed in the current period and beyond significant growth, particularly
Speaker 2: in the AD business. That justifies it. Microsoft capex one
Speaker 2: point five billion dollars beyond consensus in the court of gone,
Speaker 2: but thirty eight percent growth in Azure, the cloud unit,
Speaker 2: that's the one we look at for the AI probe.
Speaker 2: On a constant currency basis or currency adjusted basis, it's
Speaker 2: basically aligned with estimates. And people are worried that this
Speaker 2: growth in capex is outpacing what is now decelerating growth
Speaker 2: in Azure for the time being. Carried much to dig on.
Speaker 4: Here there is We've got the perfect person to do
Speaker 4: that with.
Speaker 3: Let's bring in Gabriella Borges Analysts covering the emerging software
Speaker 3: sector within Goldman Sex's Global Investment Research unit, maintaining and
Speaker 3: BI rating on Microsoft, citing long term strategic AI positioning.
Speaker 3: So do we have to swallow the sixty six percent
Speaker 3: increase in capex on the quarter for long term rewards
Speaker 3: with Azure that just aren't showing up quite yet?
Speaker 5: Yes, Hi, good morning. That's exactly the question that investors
Speaker 5: are asking us. What's really interesting is this is the
Speaker 5: second quarter in a row where Microsoft is actually telling
Speaker 5: you there is a more nuanced way to think about
Speaker 5: their capex allocations.
Speaker 4: Typically, what you would.
Speaker 5: Expect to see is capex goes up as your revenue
Speaker 5: goes up. There's a really direct correlation. What's happening in
Speaker 5: reality is Microsoft is telling you there are two importantrategic
Speaker 5: priorities in addition to Azure revenue. The first is Microsoft
Speaker 5: Copilot and what they're doing in the first party apps ecosystem.
Speaker 5: As Copilot adoption goes up, so does the capex allocation
Speaker 5: that has to go to support that business. The second
Speaker 5: is what they're doing with internal R and D. So
Speaker 5: think Microsoft AI for example, very strategic comparative because if
Speaker 5: they get some of these new markets right, like medical diagnostics,
Speaker 5: for example, that could be a really interesting long term
Speaker 5: product cycle for them as well.
Speaker 3: Amy Hood tried to get that new and it's across
Speaker 3: in the earnings call saying, look, we could have had
Speaker 3: marketly bigger percentage growth for Azure if we've served external clients,
Speaker 3: but we're serving ourselves with the compute. Why do we
Speaker 3: see the market overreacting like this even with.
Speaker 4: That new one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a trade off between short term and long term.
Speaker 5: Short term you see that in the Azure revenue number
Speaker 5: every quarter. Longer term, though, is something like Copilot that's
Speaker 5: a gross margin accretion cycle and a long term monetization
Speaker 5: story that happens over multiple years. Microsoft AI. That's something
Speaker 5: that you're not You're going to get maybe a couple
Speaker 5: of blog posts. This here a couple of really exciting
Speaker 5: data points, but it's hard to predict one exactly you'll
Speaker 5: get those data points. So the way we see this
Speaker 5: is there's a little bit of a short term negative
Speaker 5: reaction here because it's hard to see into the future. Ultimately,
Speaker 5: we do still believe the data points will a croup
Speaker 5: positive on those two other strategic initiatives.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to basics a bit, Gabrielle and Karo.
Speaker 2: You know, we talked about this before the show. This
Speaker 2: is a drop of twelve percent, So this is the
Speaker 2: biggest drop in the stock since March of twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four hundred and twenty nine billion dollars of market value
Speaker 2: wiped off. That suggests serious concern. Gabriella, what do you
Speaker 2: think is the counter argument to that concern in the market.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think it's going to be a more
Speaker 5: balanced evolution on what enterprise AI adoption looks like this year.
Speaker 5: We know for two years now it's been a real
Speaker 5: struggle to see adoption tick up on the enterprise AI side.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of heavy lifting that has to happen
Speaker 5: on the data architectures, the data infrastructure, marrying some of
Speaker 5: these really cool llms with the richness of an enterprise context,
Speaker 5: and that's taken time. So as we go through twenty
Speaker 5: twenty six, one of the data points we'll be looking
Speaker 5: for is is that enterprise AI adoption starting to go higher?
Speaker 5: And what Microsoft told you last night is actually they
Speaker 5: have an increasing optic on adoption on the copilot side.
Speaker 5: We've seen data points on claud Cowork as well, just
Speaker 5: in the last couple of weeks. You've put all of
Speaker 5: that together with what Service Now is saying last night,
Speaker 5: and there is starting to be enough critical mass to
Speaker 5: suggest that enterprise AA adoption will go up from here.
Speaker 2: Net income was boosted by a gain in Microsoft's investment
Speaker 2: in open Ai, lifted pro per share earnings by a
Speaker 2: dollar and two cents, right, But our issue here is
Speaker 2: still how Microsoft manages the capacity issue that open ai
Speaker 2: presents them, as well as the circular financing issue. Right
Speaker 2: that you know that's the arrangement. Here is some capital,
Speaker 2: and here are the services that we'll charge you for
Speaker 2: as well. How do you think about that, Gabriella, and
Speaker 2: whether we now shift open ai a bit more into
Speaker 2: the risk column for Microsoft or not.
Speaker 5: So it's really interesting because Microsoft is taking steps to
Speaker 5: diversify their exposure to the AI ecosystem. Last quarter, we
Speaker 5: saw Anthropic come onto Microsoft Asia for the first time.
Speaker 5: We're also seeing Microsoft invest in their own what they
Speaker 5: call off frontier Microsoft AI models. Each of these steps
Speaker 5: diversifies the ways that Microsoft can win independent of whether
Speaker 5: open ai is doing well or not. With open Ai
Speaker 5: in particular, what we did see last night is that
Speaker 5: two hundred and fifty billion dollar contract that was announced
Speaker 5: about three months ago. Now you're now starting to see
Speaker 5: that in the backlog and that will roll on over time.
Speaker 5: The other positive catalyst to look for is the Fairwater
Speaker 5: Data centers. They're coming online over the course of a
Speaker 5: multia timeframe, but we'll start to get more visibility into
Speaker 5: that as we go through the next two quarters.
Speaker 3: We've had a bit of visibility about the silicon strategy,
Speaker 3: We've had visibility about the hardware side, but ultimately this
Speaker 3: company is getting caught up with software negativity.
Speaker 4: What about anthropic coming out?
Speaker 3: And yes, we see relationships, partnerships, but a cowork offering
Speaker 3: that could just not copilot out the water.
Speaker 4: How are you thinking about competition right now?
Speaker 5: Yeah, the burden of proof will be on Microsoft being
Speaker 5: able to show that the quality of outputs in a
Speaker 5: knowledge worker desktop and a knowledge work environment are better
Speaker 5: than what the competitors can provide. One of the key
Speaker 5: reasons they may be able to do that is because
Speaker 5: they're already entrenched in the Microsoft ecosystem. We already use
Speaker 5: Microsoft Excel, Outlook, Powerpoints, Poor Suite perhaps, and so if
Speaker 5: the intelligence that's in better in those apps can be
Speaker 5: married with the intelligence of the alms, you get to
Speaker 5: a better point from a productivity standpoint than if you bring.
Speaker 6: In at their party.
Speaker 2: Exactly. I'm so pleased we're going to this conversation. This
Speaker 2: has been so focused on earnings and like classic Bloomberg stuff,
Speaker 2: like I grew up in the generation of people that
Speaker 2: learned computed using Microsoft Word and Excel and PowerPoint, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Irrespective of what I use today, I don't
Speaker 2: use that. I use Chat, GPT, Gemini, Claude. The totality
Speaker 2: and functionality of those platforms makes that kind of suite
Speaker 2: of software obsolete and I'm certainly not paying for it.
Speaker 2: How big a sort of existential question is that for Microsoft?
Speaker 2: And how reliant is it? Sorry to have a long question,
Speaker 2: How reliant on is it for copilot being a success?
Speaker 5: Therefore, Yeah, I think there are multiple ways to tackle
Speaker 5: this problem. I do think there is a disconnect between
Speaker 5: the consumer facing market and the enterprise facing market. Where
Speaker 5: we see this at our own organization. In order to
Speaker 5: get really good AI tools in the hands of people
Speaker 5: who work at enterprises, you need enterprise grade security or
Speaker 5: reliability depth the functionality. There are a number of systems
Speaker 5: that have to ultimately connect to build you something that
Speaker 5: is sustainable and durable over time. So I do think
Speaker 5: Copilot is one of the key ways that Masoft is
Speaker 5: addressing this problem. But there's also something like Foundry. Microsoft
Speaker 5: Foundry allows you to actually benchmark lms against each other
Speaker 5: and pick where you are on the frontier of cost
Speaker 5: and performance in a way that's quite differentiated today. And
Speaker 5: so there are multiple ways whereas at the infrastructre layer
Speaker 5: of the platform lay the application layer. Over time that
Speaker 5: will come together. And one of the things that we
Speaker 5: wanted to highlight today is just the strategic totalness and
Speaker 5: completeness of how Microsoft is thinking of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Gabriela Borg's of Goldman Saxe has been brilliant to
Speaker 2: have you on Bloomberg Text, thank you so much having me.
Speaker 2: Let's get over to Meta. Thank you. Shares of Meta
Speaker 2: right now on track for their biggest jump since July.
Speaker 2: The social media giant has e some of Wall Street's
Speaker 2: concerns about its massive AI spending after beating expectations in
Speaker 2: the holiday quarter, but it's all in the outlook. Joining
Speaker 2: us is Schweder Cajuria, Managing director of Global Internet at
Speaker 2: Wolf Research and outperform rating on the stock price target
Speaker 2: eight hundred and fifty dollars one hundred and thirty five
Speaker 2: billion dollars of capital expenditures at the top end, but
Speaker 2: also enough growth in the core B business aided by
Speaker 2: AI to justify it. Is it as simple as that?
Speaker 7: I think so. Well, first of fall, thanks for having
Speaker 7: me ed. I think the key question getting into the
Speaker 7: print was well, Meta is one of those companies that
Speaker 7: is spending a lot of money not only on AI
Speaker 7: headcount but also on capex, and they have yet to
Speaker 7: show something for it. Well, this is a quarter where
Speaker 7: they're showing it. Where the first quarter guide of over
Speaker 7: thirty percent year of a year on a reported basis
Speaker 7: is the highest we have seen since the third quarter
Speaker 7: of twenty twenty one and over four years and so.
Speaker 7: And at that time Meta's business was about half the
Speaker 7: size as it is now. So this is best in class,
Speaker 7: remarkable growth rate. So the point is if it can
Speaker 7: accelerate to this level, even if the growth decelerates going
Speaker 7: forward modestly, they have enough monetization levers that seem durable
Speaker 7: because they're making so many changes to their own models
Speaker 7: that are driving impressions growth and ro for advertisers in
Speaker 7: addition to potentially new monetization beyond advertising revenue that will
Speaker 7: come on because of their AI models over long near
Speaker 7: to midterm, and that is giving comfort on Okay, well,
Speaker 7: maybe they are spending to sustain a pretty healthy level
Speaker 7: off top line growth.
Speaker 2: Meta is not a hyperscaler, but something interesting. Caroline brought
Speaker 2: up with our last guest, Gabriella from Goldman Is Microsoft
Speaker 2: tried to talk up all the benefits it's feeling internally
Speaker 2: from allocating computes and investing. Susan Lee talks about exactly
Speaker 2: the same thing. Engineering output internally is up thirty percent.
Speaker 2: Is that a data point that you look at and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: I believe you that this is worth it because internally
Speaker 2: you're doing better as well. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Absolutely. One of the metrics that we do track is
Speaker 7: headcoune growth, and so what we are seeing is and
Speaker 7: what we expect is headcount growth to moderate growing forward,
Speaker 7: even though it will be in the positive territory, but
Speaker 7: more moderate as well as compensation skew to shift more
Speaker 7: towards engineering and higher compensated employees. In return, what we
Speaker 7: expect to see is perhaps greater level of productivity or
Speaker 7: shipments of products and new features that we think will
Speaker 7: then drive further ROI for advertisers and in exchange drive
Speaker 7: impressions growth, engagement, growth, and then monetization. That's how we
Speaker 7: see this play out, what.
Speaker 3: A difference the quarter makes and how much we beat
Speaker 3: up over CAPEX last time. In this time we see
Speaker 3: the optimism and the driving forward the promise of AI
Speaker 3: that understands us personally is how Mark Zakova was talking
Speaker 3: about it. But how crucial is therefore the next iteration
Speaker 3: of their large language model. How important is avocado, what
Speaker 3: the code name is or what they're building that it
Speaker 3: lands unlike Lama.
Speaker 7: Form, well, it is incredibly important. Going into the print,
Speaker 7: that was one of the key concerns for Meta that
Speaker 7: we haven't heard or seen a model yet when Gemini
Speaker 7: and arguably GPT five as well as Clouds models are
Speaker 7: way ahead. The expectation, however, is not for Meta's next
Speaker 7: model to really break the top three in the lam
Speaker 7: Arena rankings. It's more about Metas models to be in
Speaker 7: the ranking of in conversation of being a competitive model.
Speaker 7: If that happens, then that is a sign that they
Speaker 7: are on a good trajectory for upcoming updates to frontier
Speaker 7: models that they can leverage then for better impressions or monetization,
Speaker 7: and that should be enough to give investors some comfort.
Speaker 4: What excites you the most?
Speaker 3: Is it the commerce applications, the ways in which you're
Speaker 3: going to find it easier and easy to purchase using
Speaker 3: their own AI offerings, or is it actually that we're
Speaker 3: purchasing hardware through them. Billions of people can be wearing
Speaker 3: glasses and might be therefore wearing metaglasses.
Speaker 7: I think it's the former. They have shown a lot
Speaker 7: of competency in technology, in product development and then also
Speaker 7: in distribution, and so this is not a new thing
Speaker 7: for Meta. When we go back and Snapchat was picking
Speaker 7: up in their product, well, then we saw reels and
Speaker 7: it's over fifty billion dollars of revenue run rate. There's
Speaker 7: Open Ai, Sora, and guess what there is Meta ais
Speaker 7: Vibes as well. And they benefit from having a massive distribution,
Speaker 7: great resources, as well as the tech knowledge and product
Speaker 7: knowledge to scale these types of products and compete. So
Speaker 7: I'm more optimistic on their ability to drive monetization not
Speaker 7: only within advertising, because they are upgrading their models but
Speaker 7: also beyond advertising, whether to your point it's agentic commerce
Speaker 7: because guess what, a lot of gen Zers start their
Speaker 7: shopping and they start their search on social media. So
Speaker 7: there's a huge untapped opportunity there as well as business
Speaker 7: AI where they don't necessarily compete with anybody but themselves
Speaker 7: in getting a lot of those businesses on WhatsApp on
Speaker 7: board to spend on their business AI product that we
Speaker 7: think is a forty billion dollar opportunit from them.
Speaker 4: Shredo Cajuria, Always so great to have you on the show.
Speaker 4: Thank you from Wolf Research.
Speaker 3: Coming up, more earnings, more Capex to delve into. Tesla
Speaker 3: announces a new Terrafab build out as it looks to
Speaker 3: make its own chips. We're going to speak to within
Speaker 3: Tashakini of our invest as a blumber tech.
Speaker 8: I think in order to remove the constraint, the probable
Speaker 8: constraint in three or four years, we're going to have
Speaker 8: to build a Tesla terra fab, a very big fab
Speaker 8: that includes logic, memory and packaging.
Speaker 2: Domestically. That was Tesla's CEO Elon Musk outlining ambitious plans
Speaker 2: for a Terrafab, a chip factory for Tesla. In an
Speaker 2: effort to alleviate chips and parts constraints. Shares now down
Speaker 2: around two percent. Actually, at one point in the session
Speaker 2: we were up two percent and then as low as
Speaker 2: down four percent. The company's fourth quarter earnings top testimers
Speaker 2: everyone look past them. Tasha Kini, Ourk invest director of
Speaker 2: Research Autonomous Technology Robotics, joins us, Now, the kind of
Speaker 2: big headline for me was the capital expenditures commitment twenty
Speaker 2: billion dollars this year. You know full well, it's way
Speaker 2: beyond what they might do in a typical year. So
Speaker 2: let's start with that. You know, it's clearly a signal
Speaker 2: that these things that Elon Musk has kept you guys
Speaker 2: looking to the horizon on some time. Now it's on paper,
Speaker 2: it's time to act.
Speaker 9: Yes, well, you know, I think the capital expenditures are
Speaker 9: not too surprising to us. We had fairly aggressive investment
Speaker 9: estimations in our public valuation model. But that's all to say,
Speaker 9: you know, I think the next five years for Tesla
Speaker 9: will be dominated by the Robotaxi story. You know we've
Speaker 9: previously published. We think this could be attributable to over
Speaker 9: ninety percent of the enterprise value for the company in
Speaker 9: that time period. And you know, in order to put
Speaker 9: many vehicles on the road, which is their plan, they
Speaker 9: need to invest. Of course, a lot of that money
Speaker 9: is going into factories AI infrastructure build out. So you know,
Speaker 9: I think the story here is that Tesla, while they
Speaker 9: were you know, second or behind Weimo in terms of
Speaker 9: a commercial launch for ROBATAXI platform, they have an incredible
Speaker 9: scale that is really not matched by anyone in terms
Speaker 9: of the public announcements that they've made of putting actual
Speaker 9: vehicles on the road.
Speaker 2: Right on terror fabs specifically, you and the team at
Speaker 2: ARC know fool well, a fab at that scale is
Speaker 2: a fixed cost of twenty to thirty billion dollars, and
Speaker 2: the CFO was clear this is not reflected in their
Speaker 2: CAPEX forecast. But there's a reason that the industry doesn't
Speaker 2: put memory, logic and packaging on one site that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: But it is Musk's proposal. How seriously are you taking that?
Speaker 9: Well, I think you know, he's always been a very
Speaker 9: ambitious CEO. I would interpret this as, Look, he's he's
Speaker 9: concerned Tesla needs a lot of chips. They have grand
Speaker 9: ambitions for AI data centers in space. We think you
Speaker 9: know that could uh that could be a really interesting play,
Speaker 9: especially as launch costs continue to decline. It could actually
Speaker 9: be cheaper than terrestri than for data centers on Earth. So,
Speaker 9: you know, I think the way to interpret it at
Speaker 9: is that he knows that he needs a lot of chips.
Speaker 9: We've seen him vertically integrate in the past in the
Speaker 9: electric vehicle business for instance, and parts of the supply
Speaker 9: chain that he did not see popping up in the
Speaker 9: US that they needed in the US. So you know,
Speaker 9: I think this sort of fits in with with what
Speaker 9: he's done in the past. Albeit, yes, it's a major
Speaker 9: announcement for Tesla, So i'd say broadly that, like I
Speaker 9: would interpret some of it as a call to action
Speaker 9: that you know, he he is looking out there at
Speaker 9: the supply chain. But yes, for now they have this
Speaker 9: very ambitious plan. And again I would focus on the
Speaker 9: at least from evaluation perspective, on the robotaxi picture here.
Speaker 9: Of course they also use those chips for optimists, but
Speaker 9: I would focus on robotaxis And.
Speaker 4: Let's focus just on what you have told the market.
Speaker 3: You anticipate if I'm right, by twenty twenty nine, what
Speaker 3: is it the stock will hit twenty six hundred and
Speaker 3: eighty eight percent of the company's value will be robotaxis,
Speaker 3: and you've talked about the millions of robotaxes that really could.
Speaker 4: Be produced by then.
Speaker 3: To that end, how integral is the XAI integration if
Speaker 3: we're going to think about integration, is that important for
Speaker 3: the story and the two billion well basically capital allocation
Speaker 3: that was made towards it.
Speaker 9: So you know, of course we hadn't previously accounted for
Speaker 9: that the way that I would think of it, as
Speaker 9: you know, on the call they mentioned, of course they're
Speaker 9: making GROC available in the vehicles. I think the more
Speaker 9: interesting parts of the story are, of course, you know,
Speaker 9: they could potentially share AI infrastructure investment.
Speaker 6: And mutually benefit from each other.
Speaker 9: He did mention that GROC could sort of act as
Speaker 9: this like maestro for optimists and for the robotaxis in
Speaker 9: terms of you know, like networking them together and sort
Speaker 9: of being the AI control center if you will, for
Speaker 9: robotaxis and any sort of like large scale optimist project.
Speaker 9: So that's how I would think about the AD investment.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about this ROBOTAXI unlock. Then what needs to
Speaker 3: fall into place for the twenty twenty nine moment to
Speaker 3: occur from your perspective, because at the moment, we've got
Speaker 3: just a handful in Austin that don't have someone in
Speaker 3: the driver's seat. How quickly does that scale do you
Speaker 3: think in realistic nature?
Speaker 9: Yeah, so you're correct that you know, there really are
Speaker 9: only a handful that currently have no one in the
Speaker 9: driver's seed. They did say though, that they have five
Speaker 9: hundred robotaxis and that they plan to double that every month.
Speaker 9: I mean, if that's true, if you look at Waymo's fleet,
Speaker 9: the last reported number we saw was about three thousand cars.
Speaker 9: So in other words, Tesla could surpass Waymos's robotaxi fleet
Speaker 9: within three months.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that's incredible if you look at
Speaker 6: the fact that.
Speaker 9: Weimo launched the service back in twenty ninety, right, So
Speaker 9: again I would focus on the fact that this is
Speaker 9: like unmatched scale. They're a vertically integrated player. They do
Speaker 9: not have to partner with other auto manufacturers. This also
Speaker 9: gives them a cost advantage. So in the Big Ideas
Speaker 9: presentation that we just published, you know, we estimate that
Speaker 9: they have a fifty percent cost advantage over Weimo on
Speaker 9: the next generation vehicle.
Speaker 6: If you compare it to the cybercab.
Speaker 9: So this is really what matters for Tesla scaling robotaxis
Speaker 9: that competitors do not have. On top of that, they
Speaker 9: have the data advantage. You know, if you look at
Speaker 9: Waymo's miles, we estimate they're doing around four hundred thousand
Speaker 9: per day. You know, Tesla gets seventeen million miles of
Speaker 9: FSD data per day that they can use to train
Speaker 9: the fleet. So that is something that competitors just do
Speaker 9: not have in the robotexi front. And it's important that
Speaker 9: scale is important because we think that what will drive
Speaker 9: robotaxi adoption is a reduction in the price per mile.
Speaker 9: So today human driven ride hill costs over two dollars
Speaker 9: per mile on average. We think at scale that could
Speaker 9: be profitably priced to twenty five cents. But the reality
Speaker 9: is there's a lot of headway in between that two
Speaker 9: dollars and twenty five cents to make profit.
Speaker 3: I'm think eventually cheaper than driving your personal car. Tasha
Speaker 3: Kini of ARC, we thank you very much. Indeed, and
Speaker 3: a correction to myself, the safety drivers are in the
Speaker 3: passenger seat, as Ed points out.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, let's talk.
Speaker 3: Vidia still hasn't received any orders from Chinese customers.
Speaker 4: I'll talk that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. We're in it. This is
Speaker 2: it mag seven earnings and the story. You know it.
Speaker 2: Capital expenditures, how do they compare to grow directly from
Speaker 2: AI were In Meta's case, it was enough for the
Speaker 2: market to believe up by the most since July last year,
Speaker 2: about eight percent. Microsoft having a very hard day, biggest
Speaker 2: drop since March of twenty twenty four hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: in market cap shed and the reverse equation TESLA now lower,
Speaker 2: but it had been higher in the session, a big
Speaker 2: CAPEX number, the likes of which we've not seen before
Speaker 2: from that name. Plenty of other earnings as well, IBM
Speaker 2: posting revenues topping estimates, surviving doing good in this software environment.
Speaker 2: It's difficult. Comcast also moving to the upside on its earnings.
Speaker 2: And then there's SAP. Yeah, in Europe, this isn't that
Speaker 2: pretty down seventeen percent again, challenging software environment. We spoke
Speaker 2: to the CEO.
Speaker 10: When you look back into all technological innovations which happened
Speaker 10: over the last ten years, it always started on the
Speaker 10: hardware side of the house over time, it's also always
Speaker 10: the same that the real value equation is lying on
Speaker 10: the absolutely So the investors are of course now seeing, hey,
Speaker 10: first the groundwork needs to be done, but I'm one
Speaker 10: hundred percent sure that they already understand today that the
Speaker 10: value creation at the end to arrive on the business
Speaker 10: side of the house will come.
Speaker 2: Why are companies like.
Speaker 3: Sp other software names having a very hard time of
Speaker 3: it today? And one of them is Service Now In
Speaker 3: fat Bill McDermott, the CEO that company used to be
Speaker 3: the CEO SAP.
Speaker 4: Check out the shares of by eleven and a half percent.
Speaker 3: This stock trades at the lowest since October twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: The market remained skeptical the company's AI strategies, even after
Speaker 3: it gave strong sales outlook For the current call to
Speaker 3: just take a listen to what he told us earlier.
Speaker 11: I think the most important thing is to level set
Speaker 11: what Service Now is all about. First, it's the fastest
Speaker 11: growing enterprise software company of all time, first to a billion,
Speaker 11: five ten and now fifteen billion plus. So that's fantastic,
Speaker 11: and we're operating at the rule of fifty five. They
Speaker 11: say you're world class when you're operating at the rule
Speaker 11: of forty. We're now growing revenues more than twenty percent
Speaker 11: and free cash flow at thirty seven percent, so it's
Speaker 11: actually a rule of fifty seven company, and we gave
Speaker 11: a guide that blew away everyone's expectations. So I think
Speaker 11: the key is this, we're in a category of one
Speaker 11: and we're playing a different game. And right now the
Speaker 11: disjoint between that successful company and the compression of the
Speaker 11: multiples is simply Wall Street putting service now in a
Speaker 11: SaaS neighborhood with other SaaS companies where they think that
Speaker 11: AI can rewrite those programs.
Speaker 2: AI can't rewrite our programs.
Speaker 11: In fact, AI makes us better and we make AI better.
Speaker 11: We've been building AI into our model for seven years now.
Speaker 11: We have eighty billion workflows in flight today doing six
Speaker 11: and a half trillion transactions. That's pretty hard to rewrite overnight.
Speaker 11: So we're beautifully positioned. And we just announced partnerships with
Speaker 11: Open Ai and Anthropic because they understand the meaningful difference
Speaker 11: between giving enterprise access to an AI model and building
Speaker 11: that model into workflow where real decisions are made. So
Speaker 11: it's actually a win win, and the market hasn't caught
Speaker 11: up with that story yet, but they will.
Speaker 4: I'm going to nitpick here.
Speaker 3: When will analysts start saying, okay, revenue will grow not
Speaker 3: at nineteen percent for fiscal twenty six but out of
Speaker 3: twenty one percent you just delivered for fiscal twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: When will it look out that will still see more
Speaker 3: than twenty percent growth or an acceleration in revenue growth
Speaker 3: based on how much you're working with AI to hasten
Speaker 3: the business.
Speaker 11: It's a wonderful question because we're the only one, you know.
Speaker 11: One of the other concerns was are seats compressing? Meaning
Speaker 11: do you have less people buying your seats on a
Speaker 11: licensed basis? And our active users are actually up twenty
Speaker 11: five percent when all the other ones are actually going down.
Speaker 2: That was Bill McDermott's CEO Service. Now two software CEOs
Speaker 2: saying AI has made everything better, Yet both their stocks
Speaker 2: are down pretty severely.
Speaker 12: Now.
Speaker 2: Apple shares are down about ten percent since they're high
Speaker 2: in December, making them by far the worst performer among
Speaker 2: the Magnificent seven. The iPhone maker is usual report earnings
Speaker 2: that include holiday season results and insight into the impact
Speaker 2: of memory prices as gets Bloomberg's Mark German, the man
Speaker 2: who brings all the reporting on Apple and leads our
Speaker 2: consumer tech team, is going to be a spotlight. Right,
Speaker 2: Let's start there and we'll get to memory prices. Because
Speaker 2: I read the preview and some of the third party data,
Speaker 2: I look back at what you wrote last quarter there
Speaker 2: was momentum in China. What are you expecting that?
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think the momentum in China is real. I
Speaker 12: think you're going to see growth there. Obviously there's still
Speaker 12: quite a ways away from their peak in China several
Speaker 12: years ago, but clearly this iPhone seventeen Pro Max launch
Speaker 12: in China, particularly with the new colors and the new design,
Speaker 12: seems to be doing the trick there based on all
Speaker 12: the forecasts we're getting. I know the memory situation is
Speaker 12: important and everyone is hyper focused on that, but I
Speaker 12: just want to take a step back here. Here's what
Speaker 12: we're dealing with.
Speaker 2: I'm going to just be honest.
Speaker 12: You have a company here that is lagging right now
Speaker 12: in AI, is lagging right now in products to some extent.
Speaker 12: You haven't seen a major new idea that's making a
Speaker 12: huge impact in a while. And the problem is is
Speaker 12: they have this air cover with these just absolutely gigantic, terrific,
Speaker 12: unprecedented financial results. And when everything is going well on paper,
Speaker 12: when you're selling your current devices and your current strategies
Speaker 12: so well, you know, you really don't have the inclination
Speaker 12: to go try to make major changes. And so that's
Speaker 12: the problem they're dealing with.
Speaker 2: At this point.
Speaker 12: They are so successful that it's probably hurting them in
Speaker 12: the long.
Speaker 3: Term, so successful that revenues is likely to jump eleven
Speaker 3: percent to one hundred and thirty eight billion dollars mark.
Speaker 3: But as you say, there's no foldable phone at the
Speaker 3: moment that depending on Google for the underlying AI technology,
Speaker 3: how much will they have to talk and steer us.
Speaker 4: To the next big innovation?
Speaker 2: You know, the.
Speaker 12: Foldable phone is cool, but it really doesn't matter. The
Speaker 12: big thing here is that a lot of the platforms
Speaker 12: Apple are running right now. It's it's legacy stuff, right
Speaker 12: The app Store is a legacy platform. The iPhone operating
Speaker 12: system is a legacy operating system. They need to accelerate
Speaker 12: the shift artificial intelligence, the shift to agents everywhere, the
Speaker 12: shift away from jumping in and out of applications to
Speaker 12: something entirely new. They need a shift to a stream
Speaker 12: of different AI hardware devices. You know, Apple has been
Speaker 12: operating the last few years on We're not going to
Speaker 12: overspend on AI. We're not going to overhire an AI.
Speaker 12: This is a bubble, it's going to burst. All these
Speaker 12: models are going to become commoditized, and maybe there will
Speaker 12: be some commoditization on the models. And obviously you're seeing
Speaker 12: that with their ability to partner with Jim and I
Speaker 12: here to fix some of their problems. But AI is
Speaker 12: not going away.
Speaker 2: AI is not a bubble.
Speaker 12: It's bigger than the Internet was, you know, twenty five
Speaker 12: years ago, and so they really need to shift into
Speaker 12: this new direction. And when everything is working so well
Speaker 12: in terms of sales, it's really hard to do. So
Speaker 12: it's hard to operate the current business and operate the
Speaker 12: future business. You know, operating on two timelines is very difficult.
Speaker 12: It's like a sports team that's winning championships.
Speaker 2: They have the.
Speaker 12: Best player, but they're also trying to draft, you know,
Speaker 12: younger guys to create a next generation and you've seen
Speaker 12: lots of difficulties for sports teams being able to do that.
Speaker 12: It's hard for Apple and tech companies to do the same.
Speaker 4: Innovatives dilemma.
Speaker 3: Mark German, you're always giving us the truth, Fumbs, I
Speaker 3: appreciate it, Thank you very much. Indeed, coming up, Delian
Speaker 3: Asperahoff from Founder's Fund, Christian Garrett of one three seven
Speaker 3: Ventures join us to discuss what we can expect from
Speaker 3: the Seers, Hill and Ballely Forum.
Speaker 4: This has been their tech the Hill and Ballely Forum.
Speaker 3: It brings together leaders from tech and politics and it's
Speaker 3: entering its third year. The time when links between Capitol
Speaker 3: Hill and Silicon Valley our front and center, thanks a
Speaker 3: course to this AI boom. We're pleased to welcome Christian Garrett,
Speaker 3: it's partner at one three seven Ventures, and Dellian Asperahoff,
Speaker 3: it's partner at Founder's Fund, and both are co founders
Speaker 3: of the Hill and Barry Forum.
Speaker 4: In fact, the other person who helped co.
Speaker 3: Found it, Jacob, is now helping in the administration. So
Speaker 3: talk to us first, Christian, about what you want out
Speaker 3: of this year. How do you want to take this
Speaker 3: from a global perspective around AI.
Speaker 13: You know, this year is our fifth year of doing
Speaker 13: the Hill and Valley Forum. Fifth, it's a fifth It
Speaker 13: started as a small dinner in twenty twenty two during
Speaker 13: the Biden administration, and it's obviously grown to become one
Speaker 13: of the largest, if not the largest gatherings of DC
Speaker 13: and tech leaders. I think this year is very special
Speaker 13: because it's obviously happening during the two hundred and fiftieth
Speaker 13: anniversary for the country. And I also think this year
Speaker 13: will be a little bit unique in that we're really
Speaker 13: focused not just on technological leadership, which is the underpinning,
Speaker 13: but industrial leadership, which has been a huge focus in
Speaker 13: this administration, and then also alliance leadership, and so you'll
Speaker 13: actually have leaders there from other countries, from within NATO,
Speaker 13: and I think that's going to be a big difference,
Speaker 13: is the global scale of everyone's focus on building deeper
Speaker 13: bridges between technology and government.
Speaker 3: What's been really interesting is how the ViBe's shifted when
Speaker 3: it was private dinners, then it was the now third
Speaker 3: sort of in public event Daralian.
Speaker 4: That now the hill and the valley are so much closer.
Speaker 3: I'm interested as to how you keep that contrarian perspective,
Speaker 3: how you get diff different voices around a table of
Speaker 3: how this can be done from an industrial from a
Speaker 3: tech perspective right now.
Speaker 14: Yeah, it definitely takes a lot of intentionality. I think
Speaker 14: one of the things that's been exciting to see as
Speaker 14: a shift is rather than just having discussions, this year,
Speaker 14: you're going to see us actually release a set of
Speaker 14: different policy papers across different you know, sort of industrial areas,
Speaker 14: whether that's in rare earths. There's going to be a
Speaker 14: set around biotech versus China and making sure that we
Speaker 14: don't lose that supply chain to them, as well as reindustrialization.
Speaker 14: And a lot of it is in the you know,
Speaker 14: sort of conversations ahead of the forum with both technology leaders,
Speaker 14: leaders within the government, regulators to understand the different perspectives
Speaker 14: and come in a line on something that actually is
Speaker 14: like a material, you know, product that we're trying to
Speaker 14: actually use to go shift how a particular industry works.
Speaker 2: Christian, thanks coming on the show. You know it's going
Speaker 2: to be interesting to hear about what your objectives are here, right.
Speaker 2: I think back to the last July winning the AI
Speaker 2: Race summit. You know, the President took specific action. And
Speaker 2: what's interesting about Hill and Body Forum is its industry
Speaker 2: and decent right, you know there will be politicians and
Speaker 2: policymakers there. Do you have a goal or something that
Speaker 2: you want to achieve, Like, what is the next action
Speaker 2: that you and your peers feel this administration needs to
Speaker 2: take and in which domain? I think that's a great question.
Speaker 13: You know, for us, the fundamental goal is creating an
Speaker 13: environment for there to be a rebuilding of these bridges.
Speaker 13: That was kind of the goal from the beginning and
Speaker 13: it still remains that. So I think first and foremost
Speaker 13: is gathering everyone together and having these open discussions, and
Speaker 13: most importantly actually gathering people from different backgrounds. You'll see actually,
Speaker 13: you know, vanode Coslaw, who's spoken every single year and
Speaker 13: is attending this year, has very different views on certain
Speaker 13: regulatory opportunities or certain industry opportunities.
Speaker 2: Then maybe you'll have.
Speaker 13: From another partner at another firm, maybe you'll have Obviously
Speaker 13: every year we've had open AI and anthropics speak, who
Speaker 13: are competitors, but in this case they're both a lot
Speaker 13: of the importance of technological leadership in AI. So I
Speaker 13: think first and foremost it's gathering everyone together. We don't
Speaker 13: per se take goals or things that we think about.
Speaker 13: We really want to create the stage for there to
Speaker 13: be open debate and have a rare opportunity for there
Speaker 13: to be unity. You know, we use the term bipartisant,
Speaker 13: but I think actually this is something that's just non partisan.
Speaker 13: Everyone believes across the aisle and the importance of making
Speaker 13: sure that the US has technological, industrial, and economic leadership,
Speaker 13: and that is important for national security as well, and
Speaker 13: that is how we can create opportunity. And then everything
Speaker 13: else is a great forum really to have discussion and
Speaker 13: debate around.
Speaker 2: DELL, you know, bipartisan initiative, right, if you're being honest
Speaker 2: and you think back five years ago, you know, you
Speaker 2: guys might might have felt like you were probably outsiders
Speaker 2: in d C. I don't know if that's fair. But
Speaker 2: present day, you know, how are things different in the
Speaker 2: way that the administration and the apparatus of DC works
Speaker 2: with the technology industry. And how would you reflect on
Speaker 2: progress that you think you've made?
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, obviously, if you look at the sort
Speaker 14: of preak divide between the two, you know, communities that
Speaker 14: may have ben program within Google and I think it
Speaker 14: was twenty sixteen seventeen, people within Silicon Valley did not
Speaker 14: want to be working at all. Obviously the government now obviously,
Speaker 14: you know, look at US as a decade later, you
Speaker 14: have folks that actually have deep technological you know sort
Speaker 14: of backgrounds both as elected officials and within appointed officials.
Speaker 14: So Jade Vance obviously being you know, sort of a
Speaker 14: former venture capitalist, Stephen Finberg, Emil Michael, you know, Jim O'Neil.
Speaker 14: You know, leaders basically you know, across the entire administration
Speaker 14: that bring that technological leadership. And so yeah, obviously, you know,
Speaker 14: at this point when we look at the Hill of
Speaker 14: Valley Forum and some of the elected officials that are speaking,
Speaker 14: it's no longer folks with just a political background, but
Speaker 14: it's folks that have a strong technological background and obviously
Speaker 14: are now in the you know, some political ecosystem, and
Speaker 14: so it is very merged. But we want to make
Speaker 14: sure that we're going to continue to keep this because
Speaker 14: you know, the Hill and Valley Forum, it was founded
Speaker 14: under the Biden administration in twenty twenty nine. We want
Speaker 14: to make sure that irrespective of who is president, it
Speaker 14: still is a place where we can continue to maintain
Speaker 14: those ties no matter which you president is in office.
Speaker 3: And those ties are indeed reliance on some of the
Speaker 3: companies that you have backed to become ever more important
Speaker 3: in this geopolitical come text. Do you think of Andreil
Speaker 3: that both of you and we think about Space X,
Speaker 3: which everyone's very excited about potential IPO of this year.
Speaker 3: Will they inherently deepen, do you think Christian at the moment?
Speaker 3: And will they deepen with other countries as well? How
Speaker 3: much more are we seeing countries in Europe still wanting
Speaker 3: to rely on an Andral or are you worried about that?
Speaker 3: From a geopolitical respective, I.
Speaker 13: Think that one in the US or domestically, you will
Speaker 13: continue to see these relationships deepen. And really this is
Speaker 13: not anything new.
Speaker 2: You know, the United.
Speaker 13: States used to practice stay craft. The United States used
Speaker 13: to invest heavily in industry. The United States also, for example,
Speaker 13: was a key driver in the creation of the Silicon
Speaker 13: Valley industry. Right it was the Cold War era funding,
Speaker 13: whether it was grants through research in universities or whether
Speaker 13: it was government contracts in the early days really helped
Speaker 13: build Silicon Valley in California. And then that has obviously
Speaker 13: expanded to a global tech industry. And so I think
Speaker 13: the same trend is happening abroad where you're seeing governments
Speaker 13: want to partner people with their logical sector. But in
Speaker 13: regards to governments and how they partner with each other.
Speaker 13: What we've seen is actually the focus on technology has
Speaker 13: been a key factor for that. If you look at
Speaker 13: initiatives like pack Silica or various other initiatives, they're centered
Speaker 13: around industrial and technological partnership. And so I think United
Speaker 13: States companies will play a big role in how the
Speaker 13: US and our allies work together. And I think the
Speaker 13: same way, we want to see successful companies in Europe,
Speaker 13: in the Middle East, in Japan and South Korea play
Speaker 13: a big role in how they also partner with the
Speaker 13: US two. So I think at the forum you'll see
Speaker 13: leaders from companies across the globe, not just US companies,
Speaker 13: and that's something that we're very excited about.
Speaker 2: You know, we can discuss this March twenty fourth. We
Speaker 2: hope to be there, guys. And the President's changed how
Speaker 2: the space is funded right. OSTP now has a role. Dell,
Speaker 2: We're going to run out of time, but big milestone
Speaker 2: day for Varda. We're showing this image here just explain
Speaker 2: what we're looking at LEAs. Yes, so this is Varda's
Speaker 2: fifth vehicle that we sent up to orbit. We build
Speaker 2: these three hundred kilogram satellites that basically manufacture pharmaceuticals in
Speaker 2: the microgravity environment of lower orbit and then bring those
Speaker 2: back down. What you're seeing here is a vehicle that
Speaker 2: re entered at Mock twenty five in South Australia and
Speaker 2: landed earlier this morning. Right now, it's actually nighttime in Australia,
Speaker 2: so we'll be you know, sort of picking it up
Speaker 2: from the desert once daylight hits. But we're super happy
Speaker 2: this is our successful you know sort of forth landing.
Speaker 2: We've got a sixth vehicle that's going up into orbit
Speaker 2: in about a month and a half and so, you know,
Speaker 2: taking what was an initial demonstration in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: doing this very regularly, and a part of it is
Speaker 2: i think enabled by you know, some of the groups
Speaker 2: within OSTP that have made it so that the regulations
Speaker 2: around space are starting to become more centralized, more streamlined.
Speaker 2: We used to have to go to almost like six
Speaker 2: different agencies in order to be able to figure out
Speaker 2: basically how to operate a vehicle like this, versus the
Speaker 2: administration's new space policy starting to understand okay, space companies
Speaker 2: can't have to go after that many different agencies. Christian
Speaker 2: Garrett Delhi and es BOROOV two of the Hill and
Speaker 2: Valley co founders and Bench Capitalists founders in their own right.
Speaker 2: Hope to see you in March. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: So coming up, Amazon discovered child sexual abuse material in
Speaker 2: its AI data. The content was removed before the company's
Speaker 2: models were trained, but officials say the tech giants still
Speaker 2: won't disclose where it came from. We have more nex
Speaker 2: This is Bloombergen. Throughout last year, Amazon detected and reported
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of pieces of content from its AI
Speaker 2: training data sets that it believed included child sexual abuse content.
Speaker 2: That material was removed before the models were trained, but
Speaker 2: child safety officials say the company has not provided them
Speaker 2: with information about its sources that could be helpful to
Speaker 2: law enforcement. In a statement, an Amazon spokesperson said the
Speaker 2: training data was from external sources and the company doesn't
Speaker 2: have the details about its origin that could aid investigators.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Riley Griffin reported on and broke this story. I
Speaker 2: think let's start with the very basics of what the
Speaker 2: entity that we reported with saw in the data when
Speaker 2: it came to specifically AI related reports of child sexual
Speaker 2: abuse material. Just start with that place.
Speaker 15: Yeah, So there's an organization called the National Center for
Speaker 15: Missing and Exploited Children, and it effectively serves as a
Speaker 15: clearing house fielding tips from industry of child sexual abuse
Speaker 15: material to law enforcement. This is a really important part
Speaker 15: of the process because this is the connectivity that allows
Speaker 15: local law enforcement agents to actually track down children who
Speaker 15: might be an active danger and find the perpetrators of abuse.
Speaker 15: They feel these reports from companies like Amazon, and when
Speaker 15: hundreds of thousands of reports came in, they typically expect details, location, data, sources,
Speaker 15: where did you find this data? And Amazon has not
Speaker 15: shared that detail, which has stunted further investigation.
Speaker 3: Is that why Amazon's dat was seen as some sort
Speaker 3: of outlaw here?
Speaker 4: Riley?
Speaker 15: Yeah, so, Nick Mick, the clearinghouse has been tracking this
Speaker 15: broader bucket of AI related reports that can be AI
Speaker 15: generated child sexual abuse material, exploit of conversation with chatbots.
Speaker 15: It could also be known images of abuse that have
Speaker 15: existed on the Internet, and ultimately this bucket is rising.
Speaker 15: This year twenty twenty five was the first in which
Speaker 15: they saw one million reports of AI related child sexual
Speaker 15: abuse material, and Amazon drove the vast majority, so hundreds
Speaker 15: of thousands of those cases. That's what makes it an outlier.
Speaker 15: Here in addition to the lack of.
Speaker 2: Information, this is a story about how artificial intelligence is
Speaker 2: changing the child safety landscape. And in the course of reporting,
Speaker 2: you spoke with a wide range of experts in this field.
Speaker 2: What are the risks that they are warning about? And
Speaker 2: I suppose the solutions.
Speaker 15: Yeah, one expert said, when you hoover up a ton
Speaker 15: of the Internet, you're going to find this kind of material.
Speaker 4: The Internet can be a dark place.
Speaker 15: But it is on the companies themselves to ensure that
Speaker 15: their training data sets are clean before they train their models.
Speaker 15: The risks, of course, ed can be that the models
Speaker 15: learn these kinds of behaviors, they can reproduce those images,
Speaker 15: they can continue to retraffic images of abuse, and so
Speaker 15: questions that we have for all companies right now is
Speaker 15: how are they ensuring their data sets are clean?
Speaker 3: As we see, Amazon has responded to your reporting. What
Speaker 3: do you think the next steps are?
Speaker 4: Riley?
Speaker 15: Yeah, we still don't have answers from Amazon on where
Speaker 15: the actual training data came from. It'll be interesting to
Speaker 15: see when we get full data in March from the company,
Speaker 15: and when we hear more from the National Center for
Speaker 15: Missing and Exploited Children. As about the broader landscape. But
Speaker 15: for now, the question lingers Caroline.
Speaker 3: Riley Griffin important reporting and how this landscape is changing
Speaker 3: very swiftly and downhill for child safety it would seem
Speaker 3: at the moment though. We appreciate your time for that conversation,
Speaker 3: and it does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech d.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Apple after the market closed. That is big, and
Speaker 2: we'll learn a lot about the world memory prices through
Speaker 2: to the markets in China. Earnings continue, a lot to
Speaker 2: recap on in this episode. Check out the podcast you
Speaker 2: know where to find it online on Apple, Spotify, iHeart,
Speaker 2: and of course on all of the Bloomberg platforms as well.
Speaker 2: Thank you for tuning in from New York City and
Speaker 2: San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Tech