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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapists advice

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Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.

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Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a real session where

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Speaker 1: we help people confront the problems in their lives and

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Speaker 1: then give them actionable advice and have them report back

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Speaker 1: to let us know what happened when they did what

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Speaker 1: we suggested.

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Speaker 2: So sit back and welcome to today's session. This week,

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Speaker 2: a woman whose parents are pressuring her to get married

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Speaker 2: and have a baby, wonders how to set boundaries with

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Speaker 2: her family.

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Speaker 3: When I was twenty three, he would say, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: she doesn't need to get married yet. She's so young,

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Speaker 3: she has time. And then you know, in a couple

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Speaker 3: of years after that, it's all you're too old, you

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Speaker 3: don't have time.

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Speaker 1: First a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is

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Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment

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Speaker 1: by submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: use it in part orn full, and we may edit

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Speaker 1: it for length and clarity. In the session, you'll hear

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Speaker 1: all names have been changed for the privacy of our guests.

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Speaker 2: Hi Laurie, Hi Guy.

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Speaker 1: So I took a little peek in our mailbox because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't help it, and I saw that we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of letters, and I'm really curious to hear

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Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking about today.

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Speaker 2: Well, today we have a letter about setting boundaries, and

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Speaker 2: it goes like this, deotherapists, I need help navigating the

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Speaker 2: pressures that my family is putting on me and my

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Speaker 2: partner as I get older. When I was younger, they

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Speaker 2: expected me to study hard. During that time, I met

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Speaker 2: my partner, who is the same age as me. We

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Speaker 2: have now been together ten years and are approaching our thirties.

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Speaker 2: My brother got married, and now my parents are pressuring

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Speaker 2: me to push my partner to propose so we can

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Speaker 2: get married and have a baby. My partner and I

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Speaker 2: have discussed this and it will come, but he's not

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Speaker 2: ready just yet. I've tried to set boundaries with my

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Speaker 2: parents and to listen to their concerns. However, they continue

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Speaker 2: to bring up the issue, which pressures me and causes

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Speaker 2: me to fight with my partner in order to try

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Speaker 2: to please my parents. I'm exhausted by trying to get

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Speaker 2: my parents to be quiet about it. I have incredible

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Speaker 2: anxiety about this, and while I know my family loves me,

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Speaker 2: I feel incredibly judged by them and like I'm disappointing them.

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Speaker 2: I'd love some help getting my parents to stop asking

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Speaker 2: me about this once and for all. Thanks Alexis Well.

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Speaker 1: Alexis is really caught in the middle of her past

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Speaker 1: and her present. She's still in this phase where intellectually,

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Speaker 1: as an adult, she says, I know I need to

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Speaker 1: live my life for me and not do things solely

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Speaker 1: to please my parents. But on the other hand, she

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Speaker 1: still feels that pressure to make sure that, as she said,

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Speaker 1: she's not disappointing them. And I think it's great that

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Speaker 1: she and her partner have already discussed this and they

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Speaker 1: together have come to a consensus. So it's not one

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Speaker 1: of those letters of one of us wants to move

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Speaker 1: forward and have children and the other one doesn't. They

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Speaker 1: seem to be on the same page. The question is

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Speaker 1: how can she get that voice out of her head

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Speaker 1: around I don't want to disappoint my parents.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because they've been together for ten years, and

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Speaker 2: the parents might be thinking ten years, why aren't you

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Speaker 2: married yet? And I don't know how much she's had

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Speaker 2: a full discussion with her parents about what really their

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Speaker 2: concerns are. Are they worried he actually won't or are

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Speaker 2: they just worried that it looks bad. So it'd be

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Speaker 2: interesting to hear more about what those discussions have been

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Speaker 2: like so far.

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Speaker 1: And I think the important thing here is that she

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Speaker 1: doesn't really need to explain to her parents why things

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Speaker 1: are the way they are. I think what the parents

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Speaker 1: need to know is that she and her partner feel

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Speaker 1: good about whatever they've decided, because that's very different from

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Speaker 1: her having to justify to her parents we're doing it

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Speaker 1: this way because.

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Speaker 2: I agree, and I would like to confirm indeed that

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Speaker 2: she does feel good about it, whether she's fully on

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Speaker 2: board with waiting. But let's go talk to her and

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Speaker 2: find out.

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Speaker 1: Yes, let's go talk to her. You're listening to Dear

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Speaker 1: Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a

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Speaker 1: short break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench and this is Dear Therapists. So hi, alexis,

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Speaker 2: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Guys, we'd like you to start, perhaps by telling us

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Speaker 2: a little bit about the relationship, how you met your boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: how things went, and how things are right now.

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Speaker 3: So I met my boyfriend when I was about eighteen

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Speaker 3: years old, so I was a white tressing and I

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Speaker 3: met him through that. And our own families have their

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Speaker 3: own complex relationship that neither of us knew at the

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Speaker 3: time of a meeting. So that complex relationship wasn't something

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Speaker 3: my dad as extremely happy about it at the time.

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Speaker 3: But as my dad got to know my boyfriend, he

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Speaker 3: definitely softened to him. He's a really kind and gentle person,

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Speaker 3: and so my dad really took to that and our

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Speaker 3: relationship got a lot stronger as a result. We are

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Speaker 3: in the process of now building our first home and

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Speaker 3: moving in together, but that has created some of its

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Speaker 3: own complexities with my family, particularly gain my dad, who

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Speaker 3: feels that we've been together long enough that maybe our

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Speaker 3: relationship should look a little different to what it currently does.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us more about the complicated relationship.

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Speaker 3: So our parents had known each other when they were younger.

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Speaker 3: Both our dads had worked in the same industry and

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Speaker 3: they had clashed a little bit in that industry, and

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Speaker 3: so my dad just didn't like that idea that I

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Speaker 3: was dating a guy that he had clashed with their father.

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Speaker 2: And did your boyfriend's dad also have concerns like that

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Speaker 2: at the beginning?

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Speaker 3: Probably My boyfriend's dad's not much of a share a talker.

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Speaker 3: My parents and his parents still don't talk. I don't think.

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Speaker 3: I think I could probably count on one hand the

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Speaker 3: number of times we've all been in the same room

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Speaker 3: at the same time.

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Speaker 1: How have you and your boyfriend talked about the fact

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Speaker 1: that there is this tension between both sets of parents.

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Speaker 3: When I was younger, I think it used to concern

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Speaker 3: me a lot more. For him, it was more of

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Speaker 3: a will work it out. We love each other when

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Speaker 3: it's our relationship, and that's what matters. I should say

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Speaker 3: that we both get along with each other's family, and

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Speaker 3: that took a little bit of time. My family was

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Speaker 3: more open to welcoming him. His family were a little

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Speaker 3: less open. I don't know if that was because of

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Speaker 3: the complex relationship or just because of his own complex

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Speaker 3: relationship with his own family. It's just that when you

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Speaker 3: think about having a wedding, I don't think anything terrible

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Speaker 3: would happen, but I get anxious that there would be

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Speaker 3: some uncomfortableness or awkwardness. But I do have trust in

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Speaker 3: my family that if it was a big celebratory event,

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Speaker 3: that they would be my supports and be able to

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Speaker 3: talk and play nice.

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Speaker 1: Basically, what has it been like to talk with your

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Speaker 1: boyfriend about the fact that your families don't get along.

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Speaker 3: To be honest, uncomfortable and I think we avoid it regularly.

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Speaker 3: For me, it definitely feels stressful and anxiety provoking at times.

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Speaker 3: He's a more laid back person, so when I have

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Speaker 3: talked about it with him, he's very much like, it'll

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Speaker 3: be fine. I wouldn't worry about it, but I do

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Speaker 3: worry about it.

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Speaker 2: What are you worried about, specifically?

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Speaker 3: Just whether it would be uncomfortable when we do have

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Speaker 3: family events that I would lack our whole family to

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Speaker 3: be at, whether everyone will sort of get along, whether

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Speaker 3: they'll say something that will upset somebody else.

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Speaker 2: Who are the characters that you're most concerned about their

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Speaker 2: two sets of parents. You get along with his, he

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Speaker 2: gets along with yours, his mom.

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Speaker 3: And dad probably upsetting my mom and dad, or my

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Speaker 3: mom and dad somehow upsetting his mom and dad. And

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Speaker 3: I wonder if that's just like a warrior I have

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Speaker 3: in my mind, that wouldn't actually happen. It's been so

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Speaker 3: long since they'd had any conflict. Almost twenty years ago

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Speaker 3: they had their conflict.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about the fact that this happened

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Speaker 1: so long ago, and that the two of you have

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Speaker 1: been together for ten years, and that your parents, and

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Speaker 1: by your I mean both sets of parents have not

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Speaker 1: been able to rise to the occasion and somehow mend

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Speaker 1: whatever they need to mend, or at least find some

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Speaker 1: way of being civil with each other.

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Speaker 3: Now, as my brothers have partners and their partner's families

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Speaker 3: come to different things, it feels less normal. But it

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Speaker 3: felt normal at that because I didn't have a lot

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Speaker 3: to model it off. In a young relationship. We go

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Speaker 3: to their house for their occasions, you know, we go

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Speaker 3: to my house for my occasions, and that just felt

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Speaker 3: normalized to me.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think it feels normal because you think

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Speaker 1: about it a lot and you worry about it a lot.

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Speaker 3: I think about it now, and I worry about it now.

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Speaker 3: We recently had my brother's engagement and then his wedding,

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Speaker 3: and seeing everyone getting along nicely and laughing and happy,

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Speaker 3: that makes me worry. I don't even think we've allowed

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Speaker 3: them the opportunity to try and do so. And I

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Speaker 3: think that would be because I get worried that something

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Speaker 3: will happen and that I will have to have an

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Speaker 3: argument with my family defending my partner or my partner's family,

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Speaker 3: so I haven't allowed it.

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Speaker 2: How much do you think your parents leave are getting

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Speaker 2: from you this mixed message about I want you to

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Speaker 2: make this easier on the one hand, but I actually

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Speaker 2: would rather avoid the entire thing for as long as

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Speaker 2: possible because I'm worried that it will cause a big problem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I am giving those mixed messages.

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Speaker 2: Other than by not bringing it up, in what other

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Speaker 2: ways do you think you might have communicated that hesitancy.

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Speaker 3: The avoid part is more strong for me. Don't bring

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Speaker 3: it up, don't talk about it, don't invite to birthdays

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Speaker 3: or Christmas events. We all live in the same area,

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Speaker 3: and I know that they have run into each other

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Speaker 3: and they have actually, you know, said hello to each

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Speaker 3: other or waved at each other. And so there is

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Speaker 3: some give there. But when I ever think about them

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Speaker 3: running into each other, it makes me so anxious that

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Speaker 3: when my family started shopping at a different shopping location,

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Speaker 3: I was happy that they weren't running into each other.

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Speaker 3: The times they have bumped into each other haven't been terrible,

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Speaker 3: but I still avoid trying to bring that together or

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Speaker 3: have some sort of repair in those relationships.

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Speaker 2: And just to clarify, the worry is that there'll be

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Speaker 2: some kind of bruhaha between the two parents, or that

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Speaker 2: there will be an issue with the parents, and then

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Speaker 2: that will create an issue with you and your boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: There will be an issue with the parents, and that

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Speaker 3: will create an issue for either me or my boyfriend,

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Speaker 3: or just an issue that I have to somehow fix.

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Speaker 3: I don't care if they don't get along per se.

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Speaker 3: I just care if they say something that I have

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Speaker 3: to then deal with.

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Speaker 1: Why would you have to be the one to help

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Speaker 1: the adults get along with each other?

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Speaker 3: That is my role in my family. My role in

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Speaker 3: the family is the peacekeeper, the responsible one, the helper.

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Speaker 3: So an example might be when we were at my

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Speaker 3: brother's wedding, I think someone had made a comment to

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Speaker 3: my partner, oh, it is your turn to get married now,

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Speaker 3: and my partner had said something like, oh, not yet,

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Speaker 3: and so someone fed that back to my dad, and

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Speaker 3: then my dad comes up to me a week later

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Speaker 3: and says, your boyfriend said this at the wedding. And

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Speaker 3: he says it in a tone that makes you feel

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Speaker 3: that he's so disappointed. And then I feel anxious. I

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Speaker 3: feel like I'm letting people down and that I have

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Speaker 3: to justify where we're at and why we're at where

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Speaker 3: we're at.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask is there a part of you that

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Speaker 1: feels a little bit like your parents in the sense

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Speaker 1: of are you comfortable with where you're at in the

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Speaker 1: relationship with your boyfriend? You said you're both approaching your thirties.

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Speaker 1: Is there a part of you that wonders, is my

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Speaker 1: boyfriend going to be ready?

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Speaker 3: Sometimes there is, but more and more over the past

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Speaker 3: couple of years, we're having those more serious conversations, which,

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Speaker 3: again I'd like to avoid big conversations, but we have

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Speaker 3: been having them. And he wants to wait to get

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Speaker 3: married to when we live in our house and that'll

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Speaker 3: be all things going well at the end of this year.

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Speaker 3: And he just says, I have this idea of that

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Speaker 3: moment in my mind when we get engaged in what

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Speaker 3: that looks like, and it involves us being in our

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Speaker 3: home and starting our life on our path in our time.

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Speaker 3: So I think when I initially pictured all of those

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Speaker 3: things when I was younger, everything was earlier than what

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Speaker 3: it is now. I was told you do this by

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Speaker 3: this age, and this is the order you do things in,

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Speaker 3: and you don't stray from that line. But I'm also

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Speaker 3: very happy with my relationship, and I think that's more

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Speaker 3: important to me than this idea that my parents or

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Speaker 3: my dad might have in his head of what happiness

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Speaker 3: in relationships looks like at different stages.

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Speaker 2: You said you avoid these conversations with your boyfriend and

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Speaker 2: that you don't really share with him all of these

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Speaker 2: worries that you have. And I'm curious about why not,

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Speaker 2: Because right now, in your head, Alexis, it falls to

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Speaker 2: you to be the helper and the fixer of everything,

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Speaker 2: and I'm curious about why you don't share with him. Hey,

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Speaker 2: this is what worries me. It's not our timetable, it's

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Speaker 2: how well our parents will play together and how difficult

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Speaker 2: that will make life for us.

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Speaker 3: I don't share with anyone, but I never have. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if it's I should be able to just

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Speaker 3: get over it or manage it, or maybe they're silly worries.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: You're tearing up a little bit as you say that

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Speaker 2: when you say I don't share with anyone. Why is

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Speaker 2: it that you feel you have to carry these burdens alone?

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Speaker 2: He sounds like a supportive, nice person, Your boyfriend. Why

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Speaker 2: do you feel he wouldn't be able to be there

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Speaker 2: for you.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's about him or if it's

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Speaker 3: just about That's how I've done things my whole life.

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Speaker 3: I don't share my feelings. I don't share my feelings

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Speaker 3: or when I'm sad or when I'm worried with anyone.

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Speaker 3: I haven't felt like anyone has been able to without

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Speaker 3: it making them uncomfortable be there for me in the past.

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Speaker 1: What would happen when you were younger and you tried

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Speaker 1: to share feelings sad with your parents?

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Speaker 3: It would make them sad, or if I was sad

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Speaker 3: for too long, it would make them angry. I would

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Speaker 3: be told, you know that's enough now, or don't be silly.

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Speaker 3: My dad was really sick when we were growing up,

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Speaker 3: so I didn't want to burden any of them with

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Speaker 3: my own feelings. I just decided to deal with everything

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Speaker 3: on my own.

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Speaker 2: At what age did you decide that the.

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Speaker 3: Pic cock's like a left what tip? So that was

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Speaker 3: when my dad was first diagnosed with cancer. I feel

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Speaker 3: like I've always been the responsible one anyway. It was

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Speaker 3: pretty much set out for me, firstborn female in a

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Speaker 3: half ethnic family. It always felt like a lot to

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Speaker 3: live up to the perfect one. It doesn't get sad,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't get worried, it doesn't burden other people. You

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Speaker 3: just go on. And then when my dad got sick,

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Speaker 3: they came up with this story that didn't say Dad

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Speaker 3: has cancer. It made me feel like they felt that

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't be able to cope knowing even though I

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Speaker 3: was old enough to know why my dad had to

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Speaker 3: shave all his hair off. And so I called him

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Speaker 3: out and I said, in a very angry way, how

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Speaker 3: stupid do you think I am? I know dad has cancer?

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Speaker 3: And then I sort of took myself to my room

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Speaker 3: and refused to speak to anyone. And then I just

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Speaker 3: I cried then, but not in front of anyone. And

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Speaker 3: when I'd composed myself, I just made a decision to

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Speaker 3: not be sad about it anymore. I thought, well, if

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Speaker 3: I show them that I'm strong and I'm not sad,

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Speaker 3: then they won't be sad anymore, and none of us

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Speaker 3: have to be sad.

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Speaker 2: But then it's a family dynamic of you don't burden

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Speaker 2: each other with each other's feelings because you assume that

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Speaker 2: they can't handle it, and they assume that you can't

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Speaker 2: handle it. So that's something you do to one another.

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Speaker 2: Has it occurred to you, you're doing back to them

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Speaker 2: what they did.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't occurred to me. It makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 3: This is so generationally ingrained in my family. You lie

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Speaker 3: about how serious something is. This is just something that

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Speaker 3: my whole family does.

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Speaker 2: But Alexis, what I'm pointing out is not that you

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Speaker 2: lie about it. The why you lie about it because

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Speaker 2: you assume that the other people can't handle it like

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Speaker 2: they assumed you couldn't. You were perfectly capable of and

333
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Speaker 2: you were annoyed by that. And it's possible they are

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Speaker 2: capable too.

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Speaker 3: It's possible. But when I have shown periods of vulnerability

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Speaker 3: with my parents, it upsets them and they don't like

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00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 3: prolonged emotion. If I have, even as a teenager, cried

338
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Speaker 3: for any reason and it's gone on longer than what

339
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Speaker 3: they can tolerate, I have been told that's enough, now

340
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:03,719
Speaker 3: stop crying.

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Speaker 1: I think the word tolerate is so important here. Instead

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Speaker 1: of saying how can I sit with you in your sadness,

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Speaker 1: they feel discomfort because your sadness brings up something that

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Speaker 1: they can't tolerate, some discomfort in them. And just like

345
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Speaker 1: you did the same thing when you said, I know

346
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Speaker 1: dad has cancer, and then instead of getting comfort from them,

347
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Speaker 1: you went to your room and closed the door. So

348
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Speaker 1: everybody feels like I can maybe show a glimpse of

349
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Speaker 1: something anger sadness, but then we don't want it to

350
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Speaker 1: go on too long. So, as you said, you made

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Speaker 1: a decision not to be sad. Yeah, but you can't

352
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Speaker 1: just decide yourself out of sadness. You made a decision

353
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Speaker 1: not to show your sadness, yeah, but you were still sad.

354
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

355
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Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear more about that. When your dad

356
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Speaker 1: was going through his treatment cancer, what was that like

357
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Speaker 1: for you? You were eleven.

358
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Speaker 3: To be honest, I don't know how I felt. I

359
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 3: think I completely switched myself off I ignored everything and

360
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 3: didn't ask about it, and I pretended that it wasn't happening.

361
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Speaker 3: So when my dad was in hospital, I didn't go

362
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Speaker 3: to the hospital because then I didn't have to see

363
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 3: what was happening. So I think I was terrified, but

364
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:34,919
Speaker 3: I ignored all of that.

365
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: Did your parents try to ask you how you were

366
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Speaker 1: feeling and why you didn't want to go to the hospital.

367
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I gave them I just don't want to

368
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Speaker 3: see my dad like that, or everything will be fine,

369
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Speaker 3: So if you just be positive, then everything will get better.

370
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Speaker 1: And how did they respond to that?

371
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Speaker 3: I think my dad agreed with that. He didn't want

372
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Speaker 3: to talk about it either, so he made him feel, Wow,

373
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 3: she can be so strong, so I can be strong,

374
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Speaker 3: because he would then say the same things that I

375
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 3: was saying, you know, let's not talk about it, let's

376
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Speaker 3: not worry about it. I will be fine. I'll get

377
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Speaker 3: through this. And his prognosis was I should mention very serious.

378
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 3: He was given three months to live, but he defied

379
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 3: all odds on three separate occasions and he is still here.

380
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: So I also feel now as an adult, guilty when

381
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm disappointing him or not living up

382
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 3: to what he would like for me?

383
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: Was this going on in the whole family, meaning your

384
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 1: brothers as well, we're not talking about it.

385
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Speaker 3: I don't remember ever talking to my brothers about it.

386
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 3: I just remember thinking, they're, you know, about eight and six,

387
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 3: and they got given this story.

388
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Speaker 1: So you had to hold the true story and they

389
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: believed something else.

390
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was when I got told that. I was

391
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 3: just angry. But I was just angry because it was happening,

392
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: not because they lid. I was just angry that my

393
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: happy life had to get really serious.

394
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Speaker 2: Well, you're probably much more than just angry. There were

395
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 2: probably all kanes of feelings that were going on. What

396
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 2: about friends? Did friends notice? Did you talk to any

397
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 2: friends or did you feel that would be disloyal? Did

398
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 2: any friends say, what's going on with your dad? It

399
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: looks Unwell.

400
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 3: I didn't talk to any friends. I have a lot

401
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 3: of cousins that are very close with I didn't talk

402
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 3: to anyone. I know. My school knew because they sent

403
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 3: the school counselor and I said, I'm fine. I didn't

404
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: talk about it, and nobody asked me. That's really interesting

405
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 3: to me now as an adult, I recently came to

406
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 3: my mum and I said, Mom, I think I had

407
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 3: an eating disorder when I was at school. And she said, yeah,

408
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: I know. We took you once to a doctor and

409
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: they told us not to tell you and just it'll

410
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 3: figure itself out.

411
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: How old were you when you had an eating disorder?

412
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 3: I have so many memories of being in high school,

413
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 3: maybe fourteen or fifteen, and it wasn't about my body

414
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 3: at all, Like I didn't ever have any thoughts like that.

415
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: You know, I was big or this or that, but

416
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: I was obsessed with food and rules around food. And

417
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 3: then I would only eat this very specific food. So

418
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: my parents would just only buy that one thing, and

419
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 3: I wouldn't eat breakfast and I would throw my food

420
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 3: away at school. When I became an adult, I just

421
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 3: loved cooking, but not so that I could eat it.

422
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 3: I would cook so that other people could eat that food.

423
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 3: But you know, i'd convinced myself up until maybe four

424
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: years ago, I didn't like anything sweet. So on birthdays

425
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 3: I watched others enjoy food, but I never let myself.

426
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: Even on your birthday, I just would say.

427
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: No, I don't like cake, and everyone just said, okay.

428
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: That's such a metaphor for the way that it's all

429
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: about taking care of other people and depriving yourself. That deprivation,

430
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: whether it's the deprivation of the joy of eating something delicious,

431
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: whether it's the deprivation of getting comfort when you're feeling

432
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: sad or scared or angry. And again, as part of

433
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: that metaphor, nobody questioning why is this happening? And even

434
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: though your parents noticed and they took you to a doctor,

435
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: it was never discussed with you.

436
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: No, and took credit to my boyfriend. He knew that

437
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 3: I wouldn't eat, and he would dish up food for me,

438
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: and he would say, we have to eat this together,

439
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: and I would really like if you ate the whole

440
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 3: bowl of this pasta or the whole bowl of this food.

441
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: And I remember i'd go to his mom's house for

442
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 3: dinner and he'd say, you sit down, and I would

443
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 3: dish up for you and he'd sit with me. We'd

444
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: get a roll together, and I'd take a few bites

445
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 3: and he'd say, I'd really like it if you could

446
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: eat half. And I didn't know what he was doing,

447
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 3: but he lent me just enjoy food. It was just like, hey,

448
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: you need energy, you need to eat, let me sit

449
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 3: with you, let me eat with you. And I've never

450
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: talked to him about that. Even funnily, as I say it,

451
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: I haven't even said thank you.

452
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: So he was saying to you, I want you to

453
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: feel good. I want you to experience joy instead of

454
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: just making sure everybody else is enjoying the meal. And

455
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: he was almost giving you permission that I think that

456
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: you don't give yourself or you hadn't been given yourself

457
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: that I'm not allowed so I have to deprive myself.

458
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: And he was saying, I'm encouraging you to stop depriving yourself.

459
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: And I wonder why, given how meaningful that must have been,

460
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: and you're having such an emotional reaction to it now,

461
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: what has prevented you from saying that was so meaningful

462
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: for me.

463
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 3: I don't like to show vulnerability or that I need

464
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: other people. As you were talking, I was thinking about

465
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 3: other times where I've needed comfort or support and how

466
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 3: I would let a little bit in from my boyfriend

467
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: and then I would consciously shut off and tell myself

468
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 3: that's enough. Now, no, I'm crying.

469
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: That's what your parents said, and I.

470
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: Would do it to myself and I'm just thinking in

471
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: my head, I don't want to rely on anybody except myself,

472
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 3: because I hadn't been able to for so long, and

473
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 3: that makes me feel sad because it stops us connecting

474
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways too.

475
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this idea of how scary it is

476
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: to rely on somebody else. Those are the words you used, yeah,

477
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: as opposed to thinking of it as I'm getting support

478
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: from somebody. But what happened in your family is you

479
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: were told, Okay, that's enough. You've been sad for long enough,

480
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: we need to stop this. And so you learned that

481
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: you can't actually rely on other people. And that's very

482
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: scary for a child to think I can't rely on anybody.

483
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: I have to deal with this all on my own.

484
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: And when you talk about the behaviors around food, they

485
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: were a way to control your vice. It was I

486
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: have all these very specific rules, and these very specific

487
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: rules keep me safe. I don't rely on food, I

488
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: don't rely on people. I don't need anything. I create

489
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: the rules, though, so I'm in control. And when you

490
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: open up to someone, it still feels to you like

491
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: you're seeding control in some way that somehow, if I

492
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: open up to him. I'm not in control anymore.

493
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly that.

494
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: But I think what you're not seeing is that you're

495
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: not in control by hiding your feelings either.

496
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

497
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: I think Alexis your boyfriend has learned long ago, probably

498
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: with you, that he can't bring up things directly because

499
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: that something you avoid that would upset you. So he

500
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: has to talk about stuff in a roundabout way. Instead

501
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: of saying, I'm concerned about your relationship with food, he says,

502
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: let's just try and get to half. But he doesn't

503
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: talk about the thing. And I know that you think

504
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: that it's probably because he's uncomfortable, but he sounds like

505
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: he's responding to the very clear messaging from you that

506
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: you are the one that's really uncomfortable, so let's not

507
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: have that kind of conversation. And he's hearing that. He's

508
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: trying to be there for you in the ways in

509
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: which you allow him to be, but there are many

510
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: ways in which you don't allow him to be. Yeah,

511
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: do you think if you did allow yourself to be

512
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: more vulnerable with him? And by more vulnerable, what I

513
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: mean is just have some of these conversations, some of

514
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: the time in a direct way. Do you think he

515
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: would be able to be there for you and be supportive.

516
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. We had some other really serious family

517
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: stuff happen a couple of years ago. I could not

518
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: manage it all because it was really scary. The feelings

519
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: were really big. What was going on My youngest brother.

520
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: He had a heart attack from an overdose on cocaine,

521
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: and he had actually been pronounced dead. He was resuscitated

522
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: several times, and then was you know, I see you

523
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: in a coma and we were told that he would

524
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 3: be permanently in a vegetative state for the rest of

525
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: his life. And I couldn't manage that. I should mention that.

526
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: By some miracle, about eight hours after that conversation, which

527
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: was a few days after his heart attack, he did

528
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: wake up. But I could not deal with that on

529
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: my own. And he did such a good job of

530
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: even getting me to have a shower and coming in

531
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: that shower and washing my hair because I couldn't do

532
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: any of that.

533
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 2: Could you talk to him about how you were feeling

534
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: in that moment. Yeah.

535
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: We'd spent one night up all night just laying in bed,

536
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: and he would just listen to what I was saying

537
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: and say I'm here and just holding me.

538
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: That's lovely and it's supportive, and it's so present, But

539
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: it takes a lot for you to allow even that. Right,

540
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: You're right.

541
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: I let him in that night and then I switched off.

542
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: You allowed him to care for you. But that night,

543
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: as he's caring for you, were able to express anything

544
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: about how you're feeling to him.

545
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was terrified and sad and scared, and I

546
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 3: told him that. But I also told him that I

547
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: was scared about all the responsibility that I thought that

548
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: I had to take now in this new role that

549
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: I started to picture that night where my parents were

550
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: cares for my brother, and I envisioned myself now being

551
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: a care for three people, not just my brother, but

552
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: my mom and my dad. And I told him that,

553
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: how did that feel to you? It just felt scared.

554
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: It made me feel really weak to feel so vulnerable

555
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: because I'm smart, I should just figure out what to

556
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: do and do it. And I didn't like that I

557
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: felt so vulnerable with somebody else.

558
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: I want you to hear what this sounds like. Your

559
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: brother is in a coma and you're told he'll be

560
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: in a vegetative state for the rest of his life.

561
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: And you're saying I felt like I shouldn't be having

562
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: these feelings. If somebody else had a brother in a

563
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: coma who might be in a vegetative state for the

564
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: rest of his life, would you feel that that person

565
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: shouldn't be having those feelings. They're smart, so they shouldn't

566
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: be having those feelings because they know better.

567
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: I know how stupid it sounds when I say it

568
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: out loudly. It makes no sense because I would expect

569
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 3: that of any other person. I would expect more than

570
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: bigger emotions, not to just say, okay, well, this is

571
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: a problem that.

572
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: We just deal with.

573
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: Whose voice is that?

574
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: I want to say it's mine, but I think it's

575
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 3: my dad. Yeah. I feel bad saying that, but I

576
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: think it is his voice.

577
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: And the thing is that exists that you do know better.

578
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: As you said, you do have very different judgment about

579
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: other people expressing vulnerability in certain moments. I'm even going

580
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: to assume that you know that it's a healthy response

581
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: and that there's something not so great about stuffing all

582
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: those feelings down. Yeah, and yet you say I know

583
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: it's stupid. It's not stupid because it's fear based and

584
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: So the fear is, if I become too vulnerable, you'll

585
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: be derelicting all your other duties towards family members and

586
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: other people for whom you, from a very young age

587
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: felt a certain responsibility. So how much do you feel

588
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: in touch with that real fear about what terrible things

589
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: can happen if you let yourself be vulnerable in a

590
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 2: much more profound way than you have so far?

591
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 3: Right now, I can intellectually understand it, but emotionally, something's

592
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 3: happened in me, and I've pushed that.

593
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: Back down because you can see that growing up, with

594
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: the experiences that you've had, there was a lot of

595
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: practice in pushing things down. But it takes your brother

596
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: to be in an overdose vegetative state for you to

597
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 2: allow yourself a night. We've getting some support from somebody

598
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 2: who loves you and wants to give it to you,

599
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: but that's what it takes, and even then you only

600
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: earn a night.

601
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 3: That's scary to me as well, that it takes such

602
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: extreme for me to share anything other than this sort

603
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 3: of perfect robotic version of whatever I think people expect

604
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 3: or with lack from me, rather than just letting myself

605
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 3: be or feel or just show that I'm not okay

606
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: sometimes too.

607
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: And especially with someone who's proven himself being capable of

608
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: being there for you in an exquisitely delicate way. So

609
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: is it as scary to let him see that vulnerable

610
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 2: side as it is other people?

611
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be. But I don't know where to start

612
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: or how to start.

613
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: Well, you actually have a live issue before you, so

614
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: the where to start is not too complicated because you're

615
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 2: asking us how can we help set limits with your parents?

616
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 2: Before your parents, we are interested in how you can

617
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: approach this as a unit, not just you and by

618
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: stuffing it down? What would it be like to talk

619
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: to him about your feelings about what's going on with

620
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: your parents and the pressures in the wedding and how

621
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: court you feel?

622
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: Might be nice to get out of my head. I

623
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: think it would be nice to feel hurt and understood.

624
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: A minute ago, you said I don't let my parents

625
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: ask about my life. Are they making an effort at

626
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: this point in your life to understand, not to tell

627
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: you how they feel, but to understand how you feel.

628
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 3: I don't get asked, well, how do you feel about

629
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 3: this situation? I get told how they feel about that

630
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: situation and how I should feel about that situation. But

631
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: I don't get asked my feelings or thoughts on those situations.

632
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: So how are they telling you that you should feel

633
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: about the status of your relationship with your boyfriend.

634
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: I should be pressuring him more to get engaged and

635
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: to get married, to start a family. I should want

636
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 3: to already have a baby, and like, it's very clear,

637
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: why haven't you had a baby yet? And I would

638
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 3: say something like, well, right now, I'm focusing on my career.

639
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: I have only been in my career for two years now,

640
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: and I spent a really long time studying to get here.

641
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: And I want to settle into my home and settle

642
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: into my life before I take on more responsibilities. And

643
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 3: I don't feel quite adult enough to be a mum yet,

644
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 3: and I just get told, well, you're not getting any younger.

645
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 3: The clock is ticking, and I want to be a grandparent.

646
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you have a sense, since you tend

647
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: to focus on other people's feelings, what is their fear

648
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: that you're going to have spent ten years with your

649
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: boyfriend and the two of you are not going to

650
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: end up together, that you're going to be too old

651
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: to have a child. What is their fear exactly?

652
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: It's keeping face, It is what will people think about

653
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 3: this situation? And that has been something our whole lives,

654
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: particularly on my dad's side. There's just this expectation you

655
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 3: should get married and you should have children. And I'm

656
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 3: sinning in a way because you know, God says that

657
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 3: you should do this and that. And then the other

658
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: part is that there's just this cultural expectation. And so

659
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 3: I'm almost damaged goods because I'm getting older and I

660
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 3: don't have all of the things that this culture says, Hey,

661
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: women should be married and women should have children. But

662
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 3: it's also so confusing to me now that my dad

663
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: says these things to me, because my whole life, up

664
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 3: until I was like twenty five, twenty six, so this

665
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: is only now two years different, he had said nothing

666
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: about these expectations. He had said things like you have

667
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 3: to study, and you have to get a good job,

668
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: and you have to focus on your career. And then

669
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 3: once I got to the career, I got all of

670
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: these different messages and it was so confusing to me.

671
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: Can I ask what culture you're talking about when you

672
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: say cultural expectations?

673
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: My dad is Greek, so I should have been married

674
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 3: ten years ago, essentially eighteen twenty, which was funny because

675
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: when I was twenty three, he would say, oh, no,

676
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 3: she doesn't need to get married yet. She's so young,

677
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 3: she has time, and then you know, in a couple

678
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: of years after that, it's all you're too old. You

679
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: don't have time with your dad.

680
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 2: It would be great to have a conversation with him

681
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: in which you bring your own perspective. You tell him

682
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 2: how you feel about things, what's important to you, so

683
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: he understands your perspective separate from his own.

684
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 3: I feel like I've tried in times when he's said

685
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 3: these comments. He never says them like as in, let's

686
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 3: sit down and let's talk. I could be sitting down

687
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: on the couch watching TV and he might just turn

688
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 3: to me. I don't know what to say. I have

689
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: to say something to you because I love you, but

690
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: I don't want you to get angry. So let's say

691
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 3: he says to me, you know I want to be

692
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 3: a grandfather. I might say, well, my brother's married, so

693
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: he'll have a baby soon. They're talking about that, but

694
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: I think you should have a baby. You're running out

695
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 3: of time, and I might say, well, I don't want

696
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 3: a baby right now, and then that is met with

697
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 3: him going into this angry mode. It's almost like a

698
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 3: tar trimming child. And I've said it to my mom,

699
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: why does he go into this child tantrum? But my

700
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 3: mom does not stand up to my dad because it

701
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: then would make her life difficult. So my mom will

702
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: agree with my dad in front of my dad to

703
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: appease my dad. But when it's me and my mom,

704
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: she just says, don't worry about it. I don't care

705
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 3: if you get married. I don't care if you have children.

706
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: You do what you want. That's up to you and

707
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 3: your boyfriend.

708
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: But alex As, I was asking you about whether you

709
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: were able to share with your father your perspective and

710
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: you were able to respond to his But is there

711
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: appointed what you say to him. I understand your concerns that.

712
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: Here's my thinking about it. The way I'm thinking. I

713
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: spent all this time getting ready for this career. I

714
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: do want a little bit more of it. I am

715
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: still in my twenties, so the ticking clock is not

716
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: taking too loudly for me. And here's what I'm thinking.

717
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: Do you explain that to him.

718
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: We have had these conversations, but his view is that

719
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 3: you're just saying that because that's what your boyfriend wants.

720
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 3: But I haven't really tried to sit down outside of

721
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 3: when we've already both been heeded and try and have

722
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 3: a conversation where I say, I understand what you're saying,

723
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 3: and I know that you want the best for me,

724
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: but this is what I would also black for me.

725
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: I find it interesting that you and your mom have

726
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: so much in common, so you're smiling.

727
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: I haven't thought about it that way.

728
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: Well, let's think about it for a second. I'm thinking

729
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: about how your mom just puts her own feelings aside

730
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: in order to make sure that your dad doesn't get upset. Yeah,

731
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: and so she has her own thoughts about this, which

732
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: is she's not particularly worried about what you and your

733
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: boyfriend are doing. She wants you to figure that out

734
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: with your boyfriend as is appropriate.

735
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 3: She just wants us to be happy.

736
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And she also wants your dad to be happy,

737
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: and she's not really thinking about how she can share

738
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: her feelings with him. She supports him in those moments

739
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: when he's pressuring you instead of saying, hey, you know

740
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: what I think something different because that would agitate him.

741
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: You do the same thing, you know. I have to

742
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: make sure that everybody around me is okay and my

743
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: feelings all keep to myself.

744
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. We are very similar like that, actually, And it's

745
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: funny because I assume my mom can't comfort me. I

746
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 3: just don't let her do that now as I think

747
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: about it now, she does it for everyone else, so

748
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: there is no reason that I couldn't also share with her.

749
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: And she also does comfort you in a way by saying, listen,

750
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: I just want you to be happy. I'm not putting

751
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: that pressure on you, but I think that part of

752
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: supporting you might create some work for her, which is

753
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: that she needs to be able to express her feelings

754
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: in front of your dad as well.

755
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

756
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: How are your boyfriend's parents giving the two of you

757
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: space to figure things out on your own.

758
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 3: They're totally fine. They've never said anything to me, and

759
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 3: my boyfriend hasn't said that they've ever said anything to him.

760
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: When your parents push you to put pressure on your boyfriend,

761
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: you said that that's created some conflict with your boyfriend.

762
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: What are those conversations look like between you and your boyfriend?

763
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 3: It looks like me taking all of that in and

764
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 3: this seed going into my head and ruminating and festering,

765
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: and then by the time I see him, I just

766
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 3: go into this angry mode. I just say, you know,

767
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 3: my dad said this, and my dad said that, and

768
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 3: he just says, like, I don't understand where this is

769
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 3: coming from. It's like, I just get so anxious that

770
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: I'm disappointing my dad that I ignore any conversations that

771
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 3: my boyfriend and I have had and I just stomp

772
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: in there and I'm almost like tantruming myself. But I'm

773
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: also quite happy with where things are, and I lack

774
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 3: that we're on our own timeline because I was so

775
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: focused on studying for a very, very very long time

776
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: that I feel that it's only the past few years

777
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 3: when I've been working that we've been able to solidify

778
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 3: a more healthy adult relationship where we spend good quality

779
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 3: time together and we enjoy each other. Versus me being

780
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: stressed and overwhelmed and studying all hours and working three jobs.

781
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 3: I get to just work one job with normal hours,

782
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 3: and I want more of that. So it's so strange

783
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 3: to me that I get so angry when my dad

784
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 3: says these things, and I stomp over to him and

785
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 3: I just yell at him. I just want to just

786
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 3: get it all out because I don't say it to

787
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 3: my dad, and he's becomes my boxing bag if in

788
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 3: a way, which is had?

789
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: Are you even clear enough about the distinctions of who

790
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: you're angry at in those.

791
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 3: Moments, I'm just angry that, like my dad doesn't listen.

792
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 3: I'm now at a point where i get anxious being

793
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 3: alone with my dad because I'm scared that one of

794
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 3: these comments will come out of nowhere, and then that

795
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 3: puts me in a bad mood for the rest of

796
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 3: the day.

797
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 2: What would happen if you got angry with your dad

798
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: in those moments?

799
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 3: He gets angry back. And when he gets angry back,

800
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 3: he can He can be quite nasty. He can pull

801
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: out the book of oh hiss. Anything that I can

802
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: say to that might make you feel bad, like what

803
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 3: he could say almost anything. Sometimes he will use financial

804
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: support as a way of shutting you down. So you

805
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 3: know what, I paid for all of your studies, so

806
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 3: you do what I say most on my timeline. When

807
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 3: I say you do it, I've kept a roof over

808
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 3: your head. Or he would even say something like, well,

809
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 3: why don't you just go live with your stupid boyfriend then?

810
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: And if you said to him in those moments that

811
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: it is my plan, we just disagree about the timeline.

812
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 3: I've said something like and when I leave, you'll be

813
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 3: very sad and you'll see when I leave.

814
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: Do you live with your parents?

815
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 3: I do, because we're building our house, so my partner

816
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: doesn't live with them, but I do live with my parents.

817
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: But also that's another cultural thing as well, because the

818
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: expectation was you don't move out until you're married. I

819
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 3: used to think the rules applied to all of us siblings.

820
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 3: But when my brother built his house with his girlfriend

821
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 3: at the time now wife, it was all happy days

822
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 3: and it was good and it was okay. And my

823
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 3: youngest brother his girlfriend actually live at our house and

824
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 3: they've been together eight months. So it feels more now

825
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 3: that the rules apply to me. And that's also, though,

826
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: been the expectation that I've had growing up. I had

827
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 3: to go to UNI, I had to do this. My

828
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: brothers didn't have to do any of that. They could

829
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 3: be what they wanted on their timelines.

830
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: Given the tension at home, was there ever a consideration

831
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 1: of moving in with your boyfriend where he lives now.

832
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 3: I would love to. He lives on his parents' property

833
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 3: in a little one bedroom, so even if I would

834
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: love to, it just fits his minimal belongings, and I'm

835
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 3: okay with that. More recently, especially since my brother got married,

836
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 3: I feel the pressure more, which means I avoid coming

837
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 3: home a lot now, so I'll work more, or I

838
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 3: just won't say where I am so I can pretend

839
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: that I'm at work so that I can have some

840
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 3: breathing space before I get home, because it's so unpredictable

841
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 3: that I'm now going into. Well, this house couldn't be

842
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: built quick enough, but it's still just dirt on the

843
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: floor right now, so I have to also be patient.

844
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: Is there a possibility of you getting your own place

845
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: while the house is being built, or you and your

846
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: boyfriend moving to a place together temporarily while the house

847
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: is being built.

848
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 3: My cousin has actually said, you know, you can live

849
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 3: here sometimes because he knows that sometimes things get difficult

850
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: at home. But I don't want to do that. I

851
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: don't know why.

852
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: Let's look at that for a minute. This house might

853
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: take a couple of years if it's just dirt right now.

854
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: What is preventing you from saying, I might have more

855
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: peace if I'm not in this environment all the time.

856
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: What is preventing you and your boyfriend from getting a

857
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: place together for the next couple of years while you

858
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: wait for the house.

859
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 3: For the first part, I also do like spending time

860
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: with my mom and dad when my dad isn't down

861
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 3: my neck. I do a lot with my mom and dad,

862
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 3: and I have always very much enjoyed it.

863
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: What do you do with them?

864
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 3: We go on holidays together. So over Christmas, you know,

865
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 3: I'd spent three weeks at the holiday house with my parents,

866
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: and my partner came as he could because he was working.

867
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 3: We go for drives, we do stuff around the house together,

868
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 3: and I enjoy that. If they don't try and tell

869
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 3: me what they want or what to do.

870
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: You keep saying they, but it seems like it's your dad.

871
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: It feels like they because my mom is often there

872
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: as an observer to this, so it makes me feel

873
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 3: like they. But you're right, it's my dad. Because when

874
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 3: my mom is just home, I don't have this anxious

875
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 3: feeling to be alone and to just enjoy time together.

876
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 3: So sometimes in my head it's like Okay, what's happened today?

877
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: Is there anything that I can predict that could come up? No? Okay, great,

878
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 3: it's probably going to be a good day.

879
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 2: I hear that you can have good times with your parents,

880
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: but I don't think you're fully in touch with how

881
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 2: distressing it is on a daily basis to not feel

882
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 2: safe emotionally in your home, to not feel like you

883
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: can just sit and watch television without your dad turning

884
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: to you and going so you know the clock's ticking

885
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: and any of those things, and knowing that if you respond,

886
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: he's going to get angry, and then if you get angry,

887
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: he'll get angrier. And I'm not sure you're fully in

888
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: touch with how oppressive that is and how stressful.

889
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not. You're right. I make myself very busy

890
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 3: so that I don't have to worry about that until

891
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 3: I'm in the moment.

892
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 2: Almost in your own thinking. What is the life circumstance

893
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 2: or the age or the point at which you just

894
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 2: you get to prioritize your feelings over your dad's. Your

895
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: dad prioritizes his own feelings over yours. When do you

896
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: feel ready? What needs to happen for you to feel

897
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: you know what he'll advocate for his My feelings are

898
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: more important. I'm not squashing mine just to please him anymore.

899
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 3: To be honest, i'd like to do it like now,

900
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 3: which is why I'm reaching out, because I'm tired of

901
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: feeling this way, and I would like to hope that

902
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 3: my dad cares and loves me enough that he will

903
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 3: listen if I can find the way to talk to

904
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 3: him about how I'm feeling and work together. I don't

905
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 3: think it'll be a simple conversation and it will all

906
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: magically change. But if I'm being brave, I would like

907
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: to say now.

908
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 2: It won't be a simple conversation. It won't even be

909
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: a single conversation. You asked about setting boundaries. They have

910
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: two steps for setting boundaries. You've set them, and then

911
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: the maintenance is a difficult one. So you have to

912
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: be ready for an ongoing campaign, not just a one

913
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: time hold my breath and get through it. Yeah, are

914
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 2: you ready?

915
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? If it was at the start of this conversation,

916
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 3: I probably would have said I want to do it

917
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 3: when I don't live at the house anymore, because I

918
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 3: can have space and clarity. But to be honest, I

919
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: don't want to wait a year until I start doing that,

920
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: because I want to come home and feel calm and

921
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 3: enjoy the time that I also get to have staying

922
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 3: at home with my parents. Before you know, I don't

923
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 3: see them as regularly and life just changes.

924
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,720
Speaker 1: Part of it, Alexis, is the way that this pressure

925
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: is unpredictable. You never know when it's going to happen,

926
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: and you don't know how to respond to it. The

927
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: other part of it, though, is that you were talking

928
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the terror that you have around

929
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: both sets of parents being together, and I don't think

930
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: these are two unrelated things. It's the same terror that

931
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: you have. I never know what's going to happen when

932
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the couch watching TV with my dad,

933
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: and I never know what's going to happen if our

934
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: parents run into each other.

935
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 3: And it's also funny because I don't know if I'm

936
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 3: giving any of the four of them any credit here,

937
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 3: because I wonder if some of the terror isn't valid

938
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: anymore now that we've been together for so long and

939
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 3: they know that we're serious and they know how much

940
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 3: we love each other.

941
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: Has your boyfriend ever said, Hey, it would be really

942
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: nice if we could get our parents in the same room.

943
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: No is he afraid.

944
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 3: Also, I don't even know if that's because it's about

945
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 3: him or because he knows how anxious it makes me,

946
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 3: so he just doesn't bring it up.

947
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: So he does a lot of protecting of you, knowing

948
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: that conversations are a challenge for you.

949
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

950
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wonder when you think about the future together,

951
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 1: what would a different future look like in terms of communication.

952
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: You said you're ready to start now doing something different

953
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 1: with your dad. What about doing something different with your

954
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: boyfriend so that the rules are not he takes care

955
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 1: of you any kind of silently into it's what you need,

956
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: but you're able to participate in that conversation.

957
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 3: I think I would really like that. I think the

958
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 3: more that we've been talking today, I've also realized that

959
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 3: I think he stops sharing sometimes with me because he

960
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 3: doesn't want me to feel upset. I would love if

961
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 3: he felt comfortable enough that I wouldn't respond in a

962
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 3: way that made him feel shut down either. I think

963
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: it would just feel really nice to be able to

964
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: walk in and say, hey, this is how I'm feeling.

965
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 3: It would help me feel more like an adult in

966
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 3: my relationship than this sort of teenager that I sometimes

967
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 3: still feel like in that relationship because I just I

968
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 3: just avoid and avoid and avoid.

969
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 2: It's very difficult to feel like an adult when you're

970
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 2: living in the same room that you grew up in

971
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: with the same people who treat you in the same way.

972
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 3: Yes, and look, I think we haven't had the conversation

973
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: why don't we just rent somewhere for a little while

974
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 3: until the house is built. I kind of think I

975
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 3: would like to put that money onto the mortgage more

976
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 3: because but then when I think about it, Sorry, I'm smiling,

977
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 3: because I have this voice in my head that's my duds,

978
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 3: that would say renting is wasting money. So as I

979
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 3: say that, I realized that it's also not my own

980
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 3: thought process there, right.

981
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: And we want to help you understand what your thoughts

982
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: are that are separate from other people's and then how

983
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: to communicate them.

984
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be maybe nice in some ways to

985
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: move out and rent together and do that now. But

986
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 3: I wonder if maybe I could stay at his house

987
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 3: more and just take a big overnight bag with me

988
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 3: for a few days and not have to go home

989
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 3: and come back to his house and home and back

990
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 3: to his house. I could, you know, situate myself there

991
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 3: a little bit more so that we could do more

992
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 3: things like cooked dinner together more. Because it's funny. He

993
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 3: has said things to me like, it's when you want

994
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,479
Speaker 3: to we do this when it feels convenient for you,

995
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 3: and that hurts. But the way I do things probably

996
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 3: does send that message.

997
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: And everything that you just said is illustrating how an

998
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: adult thinks. Now you're problem solving. Now you're trying to

999
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: understand more about what it would look like to be

1000
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: your own person and stay connected to your family. Yeah,

1001
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: how can you do both? And do you see how

1002
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: in just those few minutes you went into your adult

1003
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: space and you said, yeah, I do have more flexibility

1004
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: around this. This might be healthier for my relationship. This

1005
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: is a way I could stay connected to my family

1006
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: and also move into this new phase.

1007
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, rather than how do I please my family? Be home,

1008
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 3: eat with the family, then leave, then go to you know,

1009
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 3: and wonder why I'm so tired all the time because

1010
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 3: I'm trying my best to please everyone, and yet I'm

1011
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 3: not only not pleasing all of them, I'm also not

1012
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 3: looking after me.

1013
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: So Alexis we have some advice for you, and probably

1014
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,959
Speaker 1: not surprisingly, we would like you to talk with your dad,

1015
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: and we would like you to say to him, Dad,

1016
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: I love you so much and our relationship is really

1017
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: important to me. But when you bring up these questions

1018
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: about what's happening between me and my boyfriend, I actually

1019
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: dread coming home. I wonder if we're going to have

1020
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: the good time that we usually have, or if something's

1021
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: going to come up that's really going to put me

1022
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: in a bad mood. And I don't want to dread

1023
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: being around you. I'm an adult now and my boyfriend

1024
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: and I have a timeline that works for us and

1025
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: we're both really happy with it. And so Dad, I'm

1026
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: asking that you not bring this up anymore. If there's

1027
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: a change to the timeline, I will let you know.

1028
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: But nothing you say in the meantime is going to

1029
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: change the timeline, and it's only going to make me

1030
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: dread being around you, and I don't want that to happen.

1031
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: So if you do bring it up, I'm going to

1032
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: ask you to let it go or I'm going to

1033
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: the room. And I'm doing this so that we can

1034
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: enjoy our time together.

1035
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 2: And so remember there that's the limit. Setting conversation phase

1036
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: one and then the phase two is the maintenance of

1037
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 2: the boundary. And the good thing about doing what we

1038
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: suggested in phase one is that you can shorthand phase

1039
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,959
Speaker 2: two communications. You don't have to start explaining the whole

1040
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: thing over again. The minute he starts by saying, so

1041
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: look about the wedding. You said to him, Dad, please

1042
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 2: to remind you, I really don't feel like leaving the

1043
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: room right now, so could you please drop it? He

1044
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: keeps going, Okay, you know what, I'll come back later,

1045
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 2: because I really asked. I don't want to have this conversation.

1046
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 2: And if you go very nicely, very respectfully, even you

1047
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 2: start standing up and go Dad, can we let it go?

1048
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: You just telegraph and remind him of the intent.

1049
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: And the thing that guy said about doing it very

1050
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: nicely and calmly is that you're doing it from the

1051
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: adult place now and not from that teenager place. This

1052
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: is all about transitioning you in to adulthood, so that

1053
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: being an adult means staying connected to your family, but

1054
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: also being yourself. How can you navigate those boundaries.

1055
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 2: And in this case knowing not just what's better for you,

1056
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 2: but what's better for your relationship with him than he does,

1057
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: so that really has to company the place of the adult. Yeah,

1058
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: all right, Task number two conversation with boyfriend. We want

1059
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 2: you to say to him, I really appreciate how well

1060
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: you see me and you get me, and you care

1061
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: for me, and you do it so sensitively. And I'm

1062
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: not sure I've told you how wonderful that feels. And

1063
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 2: it happens at times of distress, so it might not

1064
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 2: look like it feels wonderful because I'm going through a

1065
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 2: difficult time, but I so appreciate it that I'm not

1066
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: sure i've told you how much I really value it,

1067
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 2: because I'm not great talking about my feelings and that's

1068
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 2: something I'm really trying to work on. But that's probably

1069
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 2: made you hesitant to talk about yours, and I want

1070
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: you to be able to talk about yours, and I

1071
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 2: want to keep working to talk more openly about mine.

1072
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 2: So I wanted to let you know those are conversations

1073
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: I would like us to have, and one of the

1074
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 2: ways I want us to have that conversation is to

1075
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 2: talk about things like the following. I know we have

1076
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 2: our life plan, but I would love to start our

1077
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: life together a little sooner. Construction can take a long time,

1078
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 2: and I want us to talk together about what we

1079
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 2: can do to spend more nights together. Maybe I have

1080
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: an overnight bag at your place, Maybe we can both

1081
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: spend time at my cousin's place, just so we can

1082
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: kind of start our lives and not feel like we

1083
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 2: have to wait for the construction to be completed. You're

1084
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 2: not mentioning marriage. This is just kind of being together.

1085
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 2: But I would love to know how you feel about that.

1086
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 2: And then you toss it to him, and he's going

1087
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: to be hesitant. I mean, you're saying I want to

1088
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 2: hear how you feel, but he's used to dancing around.

1089
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 2: So catch him and go like, okay, but tell me

1090
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 2: really how you feel about that. I really want to

1091
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: have that discussion.

1092
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: And his telling you how he feels isn't just yeah,

1093
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 1: that's a good idea. No that's not a good idea.

1094
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: But the why. So if he says, you know, I

1095
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: don't really think I'm ready to do that yet, you

1096
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: don't just leave it there. So it's about what comes

1097
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: up for you around this, What are you worried about?

1098
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: You can tell me I can handle it right, and

1099
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: then you tell him how you feel and you might

1100
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: have feelings about whatever he says, and you can say

1101
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: and let me tell you how I feel about the

1102
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: fact that you're not ready to do this or is

1103
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: let me tell you how happy I am to hear

1104
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: that you are ready to do this. And let me

1105
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: also tell you that I'm scared a little bit because

1106
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: I'm very connected to my family, so this is a

1107
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: big step for me and I'm excited to do this

1108
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: and it's also going to be a big change for me.

1109
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: You can share all kinds of feelings. They can be

1110
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: happy feelings, they can be worried feelings, ambivalence, whatever it is,

1111
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: but just being able to be open with each other

1112
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: and have a true conversation, not just logistically, but how

1113
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: do we both feel about potentially taking these steps and

1114
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: doing it now while we're waiting for the big plan,

1115
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: which is we're going to move into this house that

1116
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: we're building together.

1117
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to have that conversation.

1118
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: And then the last piece of advice we have for

1119
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: you is you said that actually the parents seem to

1120
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 1: be quite civil to each other from what you've heard,

1121
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: but we don't want you to have that feeling at

1122
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: your wedding of what's going to happen. We don't want

1123
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: that to be the very first time that all the

1124
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: parents are in the room together. So we would like

1125
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: you and your boyfriend together to plan a very casual gathering,

1126
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: not just with both sets of parents, but there will

1127
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: be other people there as well. Maybe you have a

1128
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: big family, maybe friends, and something very casual. Maybe it's

1129
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: a barbecue, something outside where people can escape, whatever it

1130
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: needs to be. But it's not like and now we're

1131
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: going to put you together. It's just, hey, we're having

1132
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: this gathering and you're doing what most couples do, which

1133
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: is we're inviting our family, and so it makes sense

1134
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: that both parents would be invited to this, and you're

1135
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: not going to make a big deal and you're not

1136
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: going to have conversations with people about it beforehand. It's

1137
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: just let's see how this goes. And so then if

1138
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't go well, you have some runway there, you

1139
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: have some space to talk about you and your boyfriend

1140
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: together so that it's not all on you and you

1141
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: have to problem solve the whole thing. But you can say, oh, wow,

1142
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: did you see this happened? How do we manage this

1143
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: let's come up with some ideas together, or maybe it

1144
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: goes really well and everybody's very civil, and then you

1145
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: don't have to feel that sense of dread going into

1146
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: any kind of family occasion that might come up, including

1147
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: your wedding here.

1148
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so how does all that sound.

1149
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 3: I'm probably most excited to have the conversation with my partner,

1150
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 3: like almost like, ah, I wish he was awake. I

1151
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 3: could go and have that conversation with him. Now. I

1152
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 3: am nervous about talking to my dad, not even about

1153
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 3: the gathering. I think it's the talking to my dad

1154
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 3: that feels very foreign to me. That is my most

1155
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 3: nerve wracking conversation, but the most important one. I think

1156
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 3: that needs to happen as well.

1157
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 2: And the bar for success has nothing to do with

1158
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 2: his response, only with what you put forth. If you

1159
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 2: put forth your truth, success regardless of how he responds.

1160
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

1161
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: For example, let's say that he says, well, I'm going

1162
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: to keep bringing it up. I'm your father, and I'm

1163
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: not going to be told what I can bring up

1164
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: and what I can't bring up. You can say, okay, Dad,

1165
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: then I will be coming home with a sense of dread.

1166
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: And if you do bring it up, I will ask

1167
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: you to let it go, or I will leave the

1168
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 1: room because I'm not going to engage in that conversation. Yeah,

1169
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 1: you're going to need to take a lot of breaths

1170
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: and get back into the adult space and not go

1171
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,439
Speaker 1: into that automatic place that we tend to go when

1172
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: we get triggered by our parents, which is you go

1173
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: back into that helpless childhood place.

1174
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 2: We think you're very ready for the adulthood. You just

1175
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 2: have to grab it.

1176
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for that.

1177
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: Oh, you're very welcome, and we look forward to hearing

1178
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: how all of these things go this week.

1179
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1180
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 2: What was interesting to me about that session was how

1181
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 2: raw things were for a lie exis. On the one hand,

1182
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 2: how little practice she's had talking about her feelings, yet

1183
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: how ready she seemed to do it on the other.

1184
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a moment in the session when she said,

1185
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: if you had asked me this at the beginning of

1186
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: the session, I don't think I would have been ready

1187
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 1: to do that, But I am now right, and I

1188
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: think that'spoke most of something she said at the end

1189
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: about she said, I'm really tired. It's really exhausting to

1190
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 1: feel like you have to hold your feelings. You have

1191
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: to take care of everyone else. She's done it her

1192
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: whole life, so I think that she's kind of ready,

1193
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: like a butterfly, ready to emerge.

1194
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 2: I agree, And I think it was the fact that

1195
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 2: she was able to be so open with us and

1196
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 2: so vulnerable. She cried and she was teary, and the

1197
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 2: world did an end and everything was okay, and we

1198
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 2: actually were more interested in how she felt. I think

1199
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 2: that was also a great illustration for her about how

1200
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 2: it can feel to open up and be supported.

1201
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 1: And I like that she's going to be doing something

1202
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: with her dad that she's not used to doing, or

1203
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 1: pretty much predicting that he's not going to take well

1204
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: to this conversation. So it's really about her saying, let

1205
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: me ask myself, how do I feel in this moment.

1206
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: There were so many times in the conversation where she said,

1207
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if this is my voice or this

1208
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: is one of my parents' voices.

1209
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 2: Right. That's why it doesn't matter how it goes on

1210
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 2: his end. Her doing it despite that fear, because that's

1211
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,520
Speaker 2: what's right for her, I think is going to be

1212
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: really meaningful to her and hopefully set her on the

1213
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 2: right path. You're listening to deotherapists. We'll be back after

1214
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 2: a short break. So, Laurie, we heard from Alexis and

1215
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 2: we gave her a few conversations to have before we

1216
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 2: get to them. A note to our listeners, Alexis is

1217
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 2: taping this late at night, and so she's whispering for

1218
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 2: that reason. She doesn't want to wake people up. Let's

1219
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 2: hear how she did.

1220
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 4: Hi guy, Hi Laurie. Just checking in about some of

1221
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 4: the homework that you guys gave me. So the first

1222
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 4: task that you gave me was around a conversation with

1223
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 4: my dad. It took me a couple of days to

1224
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 4: work up the courage and figure out how to have

1225
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 4: this conversation with him, but that was a really great

1226
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 4: opportunity when we were alone together in the car, I

1227
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,799
Speaker 4: was really anxious to have this. But he didn't get angry.

1228
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:44,560
Speaker 4: We didn't have a fight. It was him being a

1229
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 4: little bit rigid, saying that he just wants the best

1230
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 4: for me and he wants me to be happy. So

1231
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 4: I really just had to highlight that I am really

1232
01:10:54,920 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 4: happy and I am happy with my timeline and things

1233
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 4: are going the way that I and my boyfriend would

1234
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 4: like them to and that just because that doesn't match

1235
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 4: up with his timeline, that's okay. He shoult have stopped

1236
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 4: the conversation there, and things have been good. I have

1237
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 4: been a little bit less worried about coming home. I

1238
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 4: am still, however, a little bit worried that this is

1239
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 4: going to come up again. Sometimes he has these patterns

1240
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 4: where things will go okay for a little bit. But

1241
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 4: I'm really much more confident him revisiting this conversation now,

1242
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 4: knowing how it went and with the advice that he

1243
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 4: had given me. The second conversation was with my boyfriend.

1244
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,480
Speaker 4: I did this one much quicker, and I really focused

1245
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 4: on how much I value how he's there for me.

1246
01:11:56,080 --> 01:12:00,879
Speaker 4: In fact, I opened up quite a bit more following

1247
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:05,759
Speaker 4: that conversation, and he then opened up with me about

1248
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 4: how he's been feeling just with life and his new job,

1249
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 4: and it was really really nice. I felt much more

1250
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 4: connected in that moment. We did have a discussion about

1251
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 4: spending more time together and what that would look like.

1252
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 4: We have decided that I will stay there at his

1253
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 4: house more frequently and for longer periods of time. So

1254
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 4: we're really excited about this and we're really looking forward

1255
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 4: to what that looks like. The last piece of advice

1256
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 4: was to talk to my boyfriend and that we could

1257
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 4: both organize together catch up for our parents. Just to

1258
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 4: me in a very casual setting. This is something that

1259
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 4: we haven't done yet. It's just we both have lots

1260
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 4: on our schedules in the coming month, but we are

1261
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 4: really trying to find a time that we know will

1262
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 4: work really well for both our families. And whilst I

1263
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 4: am a bit anxious about that, I feel much more

1264
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 4: supported doing this with my partner. So I just wanted

1265
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 4: to thank you guys again.

1266
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 2: It sounded like Alexis did really well. I think that

1267
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 2: the conversation with her father she was really uncomfortable, but

1268
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 2: she did very well in saying her piece and explaining

1269
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 2: it and not prolonging the conversation. The one comment I

1270
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 2: would have is you said, if it comes up again,

1271
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 2: it will come up again, and you don't need to

1272
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 2: have the whole conversation all over again. When it does,

1273
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 2: you just remind him Dad, we spoke about that. Remember

1274
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 2: I'm doing it on my own timeline, and then you

1275
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 2: leave it again.

1276
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: I do think she did a good job. I know

1277
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: this was a really hard conversation for her to have.

1278
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: I did not hear her setting the boundary though, and

1279
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: I think that she needs to go back to our

1280
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 1: advice and listen to how we explain to her how

1281
01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: the boundary setting sounds, because I don't think she said

1282
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: to him if it comes up again, I will leave

1283
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 1: the conversation. And then she needs to actually leave the

1284
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 1: room and the conversation in a very warm, friendly way.

1285
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 1: But she needs to do that consistently because if she

1286
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: doesn't do that consistently, he might just keep bringing it up.

1287
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 2: Correct and so I think when he does the next time,

1288
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 2: which she willed, then you say to him, Dan, remember

1289
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 2: we spoke about this and then Alexis said the boundary,

1290
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 2: say so, I don't want to talk about it again,

1291
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 2: and if you keep bringing it up, I'm just going

1292
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 2: to end the conversation and leave the room. Just be

1293
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 2: very explicit in the kindest way. That is just unpleasant

1294
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,760
Speaker 2: for me. It stresses me out. This is what I

1295
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 2: have to do.

1296
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 1: And I like that she said it was easy to

1297
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: go to her boyfriend and have that conversation. It shows

1298
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: that they have a lot of connection, a lot of

1299
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: trust with each other. It was so nice to hear

1300
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: that when she opened up to him, he opened up

1301
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: so much to her, and it made them feel so

1302
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: much more connected and that they both want to spend

1303
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,720
Speaker 1: more time together and that she will be spending more

1304
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: time his house.

1305
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 2: I think they need that, and I really got the

1306
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 2: sense that having that conversation made them feel more unified,

1307
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 2: and that was also why we wanted them to throw

1308
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 2: this family event. I also think that planning this family

1309
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 2: event together will continue to unify you and define you

1310
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 2: in your eyes and especially in your family's eyes, as

1311
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 2: a unit as a couple.

1312
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: Alexi said they didn't have time for a get together

1313
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,680
Speaker 1: where the parents would both be there, and I know

1314
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,959
Speaker 1: that they're busy, but I also think it's really important

1315
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: that they prioritize.

1316
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 2: That absolutely, and even in the planning, there is an

1317
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 2: intervention there, because it's sufficient that you put both parents

1318
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 2: on an email together and say, we would like to

1319
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 2: invite you to a blah blah blah, whatever you choose

1320
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 2: to do. Let's look at our calendars and try and

1321
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 2: find dates. So even before it happens, the intention is there.

1322
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 2: So alexis we are encouraging you strongly to not wait months,

1323
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 2: but to start the planning and the communicating with the

1324
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 2: two sets of parents about this right now, because we

1325
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 2: really think that you and your boyfriend make a good

1326
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 2: team and this is something you should approach as a team.

1327
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: Next week, a mother and daughter who've been emotionally distant

1328
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: for the past twenty five years try to heal the

1329
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: wounds of the past.

1330
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 5: From the moment she said she didn't want us to

1331
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 5: be involved in the adoption process, I felt that Stephanie

1332
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 5: was rejecting me, and as things have gone on for

1333
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 5: the past years, I felt like she doesn't approve of me,

1334
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 5: and so I've just distanced myself.

1335
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

1336
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: free so you don't miss any episodes, and please help

1337
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: support your therapists by telling your friends about it and

1338
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,719
Speaker 1: leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help

1339
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:47,840
Speaker 1: people to find the show.

1340
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

1341
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:56,560
Speaker 2: email us at Loridguy at iHeartMedia dot com. Our executive

1342
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 2: producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Josh Fisher,

1343
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 2: additional editing support by Zachary Fisher and Katie Matty. Our

1344
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 2: intern is an Anna Doherty and special thanks to our

1345
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 2: podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Couric. We can't wait to see

1346
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 2: you at our next session. Deo Therapist is a production

1347
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio

1348
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 3: Fild