1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 2: This week's ae KB and I have doctor Guy Winch 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: coming on. He's got a book that's called The Mind 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: Over Grind, How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 3: I feel like he must be more popular than ever 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: because I, at least in my social circle, everyone feels 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 3: the great enmeshment of work in life and the no balance. 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: Well, let's get all the tips and tools and get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: him on. 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Hi, Hello Guy, I well, thank you, I'm good. 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: You know when I read your the synopsis of great 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: you know your book, you're promoting Mind over Grind, how 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: to break Free when Work Hijacks your Life. And it's 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: so funny because right before this, I'm texting, you know, 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 2: trying to trying to put a fire out in another 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: work area. And and then you know, just trying to 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: because we're you know, we're busy moms. We're we got 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: to grind, we gotta you know, support. But I just 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: feel like it's taking over the moments that I need. 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: I want to settle and be relaxed, but I also 21 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: know there's certain things that like right now I am 22 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: in I'm in a time where it's I've gotten offered something, 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: but I'm like, ah, I don't this is going to 24 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: take away this and the time here, and but I'm like, 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: but I know, I got to go work. So it's 26 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: like trying to find that balance. And so guy, help us, 27 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: help me save our lives. Doctor gets no pressure. 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: Look, it's it's a real problem, right because you get 29 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: and especially when the things coming your way that actually 30 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: are interesting. Yeah, but there's just no room for all 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: of them, and you do have to be realistic. And 32 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: what we tend to lose sight of is we say 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: yes first before we're actually honest with ourselves about what 34 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: we're not going to have time for and whether that 35 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: might be more important, like some quality time with the 36 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: kids or with you know, Scottish husband or whatever. And 37 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: we say yes first and me go oh, and then 38 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: we're stuck with it. But we have to work backwards. 39 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: We actually have to protect the things that actually matter 40 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: most in our personal lives, and then the consequence will 41 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: come at work because we just can't get to everything. 42 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: Right. Do you talk on the difference, because I really 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to divide us or separate us 44 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 2: or whatever when it comes to this, but I do 45 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: believe like, for example, my husband doesn't think about what 46 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 2: I have to think about when it comes to the kids, 47 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: Like I don't feel like they have that dad guilt, 48 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: like where they could go. He could go coach for 49 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: ten months out of the year, and I'm like, oh, 50 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: I don't want to be away for six weeks, you know, 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: And so it's a different So it's like, how do 52 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: you separate those two when but it's still stuff that 53 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: we enjoy. So they do have any advice for like 54 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 2: the mother side of that mom guilt when work is 55 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: kind of hijacking what we love and want to nurture. 56 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: Look, the mum guilt is usually the problem with mum 57 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: guilt is it's usually about everyone else but her. In 58 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: other words, it's about you, Oh, the kids aren't getting enough, 59 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: or my husbands aren't getting enough for my parents aren't 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: getting enough. And usually with moms lost on the list 61 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: is am I getting enough? I mean, that's that's you know, 62 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: part of the problem that because then you run out 63 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: of oxygen, then you are not that fun to be around. 64 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: It don't mean you personally, I'm sure you're delight all 65 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 1: the time. 66 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: No, but it's true though I feel less fun right now, 67 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: for sure. 68 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: I am. 69 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: When I'm more stressed, I'm not fun to be around. 70 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: I'm not wanting to be like sit on the ground 71 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: and play games with the kids, and I'm in my 72 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: head right and. 73 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: They can tell and and so a they can tell. 74 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: So you know, you know, sometimes kids are like, oh, well, 75 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: we'll we'll go play in our room. It's we're good, 76 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: thank you very much, because it's a little more peaceful there. 77 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: But the other part of that is that you don't 78 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: get to enjoy some of the moments which you could 79 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: be enjoying because playing with your kids, especially when the 80 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: playing is going well, those are the good moments. That's 81 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 1: you know, they're not crying, they're not you know, screaming, 82 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: they're not fighting. So you're not enjoying it because you're 83 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: in your head thinking about all the other stuff you 84 00:03:59,640 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: have to do. 85 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: So how do we break free from that? 86 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: So real give me this is one of my questions 87 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: for you, honestly, because as you know, I know, there's 88 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: a lot of career focus and burnout, right, So we 89 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 3: talk about like people that are CEOs or that are 90 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 3: whatever top salesmen in their field or the best at 91 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 3: their landscaping company, and there's the burnout. But my question 92 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: for you was more around stay at home mom life 93 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: because my job is stay at home mom, and I 94 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 3: also am experiencing my own career burnout if my career 95 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: is stay at home mom, like I can feel myself 96 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 3: tapped out lately. I can feel that I'm you know, 97 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 3: you talk a lot about enmeshment between career and personal life, 98 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 3: and in the in the stay at home mom field, 99 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: that's all it is. And so it's like, where do 100 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: we find that separation and how can we I don't 101 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: want to I'm not much of a block scheduler. Like 102 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: that doesn't seem to work in our world. So if 103 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: I'm saying, like you know, seven to eight is mommy time, 104 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: that doesn't really work in our house, is there any 105 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: way you can save our hearts and our families, doctor guy, 106 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 3: No pressure, but just to give give some enlightenment on 107 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: how that can be separated a little or what our 108 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: best practices are. 109 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: Look, I don't know why it doesn't work in your 110 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: house though. If it's if seven eight is mummy time, 111 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: but mummy time actually between seven and eight means somebody 112 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: else needs to be in charge and if they are 113 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: not doing that, then that's a conversation with that person. 114 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: And the best thing Mommy can do between seven and 115 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: eight is actually leave, because then she can't be recruited, 116 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, she can't hear the screaming and go like, 117 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: oh come, i'll do it, I'll do it, you know, 118 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: like because that's another slippery slope, right, So leave, you know, 119 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: or lock yourself in a room somewhere, put on earphone, like, 120 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: do something to block it out. But it's about protecting. 121 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: First of all, you get so little, you have to 122 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: protect it because that's what's causing the burnout where even 123 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: those those little sanctuaries of time get taken away. And 124 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: then it's a double because not only you didn't have it, 125 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: but now you're resentful about not having it. That starts 126 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: another whole cycle. So it's actually double penalized for the 127 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: thing you were supposed to get but didn't. So protecting 128 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 1: that thing is super important. 129 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 3: Do you So does that apply then to Jana's because 130 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: the mom guilt to me and Mom's not having enough 131 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 3: time is so they're so locked like it's you know, 132 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 3: we want to have the space, but then we take 133 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: the space and there's always something in our brains like 134 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: I really share with her in the fact that my 135 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: husband can clock out. It's such a wild I'm envious. 136 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: I'm not even gonna sugarcoat it. I get jealous that 137 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: he's just like, well, I'm going to go get a 138 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 3: massage today, and I don't. I don't do that. I 139 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 3: don't do that. I can do that, I'm sure, I 140 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 3: just don't. I can't do it with her. 141 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: Because you're feel guilty. 142 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: Well, yes, and I'm the default parent. He's a project 143 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: for you, actually, I mean, and we talk about enmeshment. 144 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 3: I don't know, I need to fly you here. 145 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: Look, but here's here's the thing. He can go get 146 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: a massage, but you can't. And I'm not sure who 147 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: you're feeling guilt about it. You feel the guilty about 148 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: sticking him with the kids, or feeling guilty for the 149 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: kids having to be with someone who might be paying 150 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: enough attention to them. I don't know who that is. 151 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: But I can promise you one thing. All of them 152 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: will survive, and it'll teach them to be maybe a 153 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: little bit more independent, or a little bit more sub sufficient, 154 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: or a little bit more resilient and it'll teach them, and 155 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: especially if I don't know if you have girls, but 156 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: it will teach them. Okay, so yes, girls, here's a 157 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: lesson when you become mummies. Mummies have some needs. I 158 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: know it's shocking, but you're not saying that depending on 159 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: the age, but you're modeling it like your mom needs 160 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: stuff too. And if you're feeling guilty about it, then 161 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: let's deal with the guilt rather than not do the 162 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: thing and then not feel guilty and then feel burnt out. 163 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: In other words, guilt, talk yourself down. Get on the 164 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: phone owned with a friend and say, took me down. 165 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: I'm feeling guilty for the evening, and she'll talk you down. 166 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: But do the thing to get support to manage the guilt. 167 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: Don't do without the thing that you need. 168 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. You know my husband was he 169 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: really wanted to chat with you. He's got a session 170 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: with a client right now that he's training. But you know, 171 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: he's like, can you ask him this? You know, he's 172 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: my husband is always he's a soccer coach, so he's 173 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: always training and now you know analysis and his brain 174 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: and there's times when I'll be like, hey, you there, 175 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: you know we're having any But he's like, I'm sorry, 176 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: I'm just like I just thought of a drill or 177 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: like an analysis thing. And what is a tip when 178 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: you're so in your brain about thinking about work all 179 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: the time, and then how to separate? Go okay, you 180 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: know what's a great tip to separate, not you know, 181 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: letting work kind of in a conversation or when it's 182 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: family time, Like, what's a good off. 183 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: Specifically for him? Because look, the two types of that. 184 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: One type is what he's doing, which is voluntary. He's 185 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: actually thinking creatively, ooh, we can do this kind of jill, 186 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: So he's not you know, it's not rumination. Rumination is 187 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: when the thoughts kind of intrude on you, and those 188 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: are more about troubles or concerns or arguments you had 189 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: or you know, a thing that's weighing on you. Those 190 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: are different. Those you actually have to take care of 191 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: by turning them into action items that you can take 192 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: care of so that the weighing on you thing goes 193 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: away because it's it's taking care of. He's doing it voluntarily. 194 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: And one thing I would suggest to him is that 195 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: he needs to define what he's actually what's the goal 196 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: of what he's doing in that moment. If that's during 197 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: the time you're making dinner, he needs to actually say 198 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: to himself, my purpose now is to actually make dinner, 199 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: be mindful of what I'm doing, connect with my wife, 200 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: have some quality time, chat about the day. He needs 201 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: to redefine what he's doing in that moment, because when 202 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: we don't define, then all those work stuff can you know, intrude, 203 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: I suggest even marking it on your calendar. If he's 204 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: a calendar person, you know, saying like, make dinner with wife, talk, 205 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: put phone away, don't think about work like brainstay calendars 206 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: really ridiculously seriously. So it helps tim I do to 207 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: say those days, yeah, yeah, because we're trained to look 208 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: at it. This is what it's selling me what to do. Now. 209 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: If it's selling what you know, If what it's selling 210 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: you to do is like be present in whatever I'm 211 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: doing with my wife and my kids at that time, 212 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: then you're more likely to do it. But he actually 213 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: needs to redefine what he's doing in that moment, so 214 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: it's not just blank space for those thoughts to ine. 215 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: That makes sense. 216 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: Do you see a huge increase in your work now 217 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 3: that there's more of a stay at home or work 218 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: from home environment, Like I feel like that's gotten like 219 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: vastly more popular. So it is hard because I know, 220 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: like as humans, we love the system and the feeling. 221 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 3: You know, there's decompression, right if you're driving home from 222 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: a job, you get a minute to take a deep 223 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: breath and let your thoughts go, or listen to music whatever. 224 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: But when you're just moving from one room to the 225 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 3: next room, how do you tuck in the workday? Is 226 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: it ever off? Because in our home there's just no 227 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 3: boundary for when work is over. We really are struggling 228 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 3: with that. Like when I tell you I have your specimen, 229 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: I've married like the most guy doctor, guy, friendly dude 230 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 3: that you could you could come in and work with. 231 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 3: He is you know, he's running a record label, he's 232 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: a songwriter, he's got this, he's got that. He's on 233 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 3: the road and he's back and he's a touring artist. 234 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: But it's all always on. There's no time for us 235 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 3: to cut it off. And then when he wants to 236 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 3: cut it off, it's like eleven o'clock at night and 237 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 3: he's like, so do you want to talk about the 238 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 3: HVAC quote? And I'm like, I sure don't. 239 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: Actually, oh wow, yeah, that's yeah, that's romantic. 240 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: So yeah, well it is heating and cooling, and I 241 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: can tell you we're mostly on the air condition side 242 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 3: at that point. 243 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: So look, when when you're looking from home, there's no 244 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: physic boundary. You have to create a psychological one. And 245 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: the only way you can do that is if there 246 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: is a time where the work day does end, and 247 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: that's a conversation you need to have with him, and 248 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: it'd be like, look, we don't have a life after 249 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: work because it's all work all the time. The problem 250 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: with that, by the way, is this is how people 251 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: get burnt out. When is the time where you're not 252 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: on duty. I mean, hopefully the kids are asleep at 253 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: a certain time. There's a moment you can breathe without 254 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: having to be responsible for something. And yet he's squandering 255 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: that by continuing being responsible for something, even if it's 256 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: the age vact. So that you know, you need your system, 257 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: your body, your brain needs time to destress. We are 258 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: not designed literally to be on and dealing with these 259 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: tensions all the time. We just cannot. We're gonna like 260 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: flounder if we do. So you need some time in 261 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: the evening to not be that, to just relax, and 262 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: again you need to talk about can we shut it 263 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: down at a certain hour, not five minutes before we 264 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: go to bed, but that we can actually we just 265 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: relax and exhale and allow our physical systems, our nervous 266 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: system time to reset and to recover, because again, that's 267 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: how burnout happens, and that's how disease happens, because when 268 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: you're on your whole body's activated and it's not getting 269 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: a break. 270 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: He's either what do you see as the biggest problem 271 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: that I don't say problem, but like the biggest issue 272 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: that people are having with this. 273 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: Look, the biggest issue that people are having is that 274 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: they're not aware. They're not paying attention to the grind, 275 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: and the grind continues at home. The whole point of 276 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: my book is that, yeah, it's not just about work, 277 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: it's about how all of that spills over to the home. 278 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: And certainly if you're a stay at home mom, and 279 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: certainly if you know you're thinking about work or dealing 280 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: about work after like, there is no break from it, 281 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: and we don't pay attention to how many aspects of 282 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: ourselves we lose in that process. There's a lot of 283 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: research about when one member of a couple is chronically 284 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: stressed at work, the other member of the couple will 285 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: start to develop symptoms of burnout because it transfers. It's infectious, 286 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: it's contagious. We don't contain it, and so we have 287 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: to be much more mindful about when are we getting breaks, 288 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: when are we not on duty all the time? You know, 289 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: especially parents, you can be on duty so the kid 290 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: is sick at night, especially fine, But in regular times, 291 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: there has to be a time where you cannot have 292 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: to be on guard, because that's what's so bad for us. 293 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: And you have to think that way and ask yourself, 294 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: what am I getting myself a break? And myself means 295 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: my body, my mind, my gastrointestinal system, my nervous system, 296 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: all of it. 297 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: What I know, it's different for everybody in each household. 298 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: Household would be different. But what have you seen that 299 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: has worked best for you and other people that you've 300 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 2: worked with. 301 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: So in terms of people who actually outside of the 302 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: house from work or even actually if you're working from home, 303 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: you need to have some kind of transition ritual that 304 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: signals to your brain that you finish the workday Now 305 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: for that to work, you actually have to finish the workday, 306 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: because otherwise this doesn't work if the work that just 307 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: extends and extends and extends. So you know, you want 308 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: to really again because about training your brain to like 309 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: come down for that activation level. One thing I suggest 310 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: to people is emails. Right, a lot of people just 311 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: will have we get emails at all hours and we 312 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: have to respond to them. And some people say, I 313 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: only have to respond to a couple, but I've got 314 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: to read a hundred to figure out which those two are, 315 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, and so one of the and that's really 316 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: disruptive because that'll take you out of whatever it is 317 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: you're doing. It puts you back into fight or flight. 318 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: It keeps you stressed out again. So you want to 319 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: do that in a way that you still feel like 320 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: you're in control. That you have an evening, So choose 321 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: the time in the evening it's a thirty, it's nine, 322 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: that you're going to spend fifteen minutes looking at work 323 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: emails and responding, and do not do it before and 324 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: do not do it after. And that way you can define, oh, 325 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: this is our time together as a couple, our time 326 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: together as a family, my time to sit and binge 327 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: and watch a show or do whatever, and then I'll 328 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: take an intermission from that main activity, and that intermission 329 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: will be work. But the way we have it is 330 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: first it's work, and we try and get breaks from 331 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: work to have life in the after hours. And it 332 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: should be the opposite where life is dominant and we 333 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: take breaks that dip into work as needed. 334 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: That makes sense. 335 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 3: Oh, that second way just calms my whole whole nervous 336 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: system when you say it. When it's we're doing life 337 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: and we have the work in pockets, that feels so 338 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 3: good to the soul. But then you know, eggs are 339 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: like thirteen dollars, So we're all just in the hustle 340 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: and the grind and the crazy. So is it a 341 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: matter of more boundaries you think for for the enmeshment 342 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 3: of work in life. 343 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: You are not making more money by thinking about work 344 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: after work. You are not being more productive by exhausting 345 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: yourself so that you'll make more mistakes and be less 346 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: effective and less creative the next day. You are not, 347 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: you know, helping your career by grinding yourself into burnout. 348 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: So that's it's a misconception that we just that you know, 349 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: the harder we work, the better we do. No, there 350 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: is a you know, there's a curve that beyond a 351 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: certain level of stress and of pressure and of work hours, 352 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: literally everything start to decline. Your you know, executive functioning, 353 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: your basic functioning, your concentration, your creativity, it all starts 354 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: to slope downward. So you're not actually helping yourself. And 355 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: we are all on that downslope in the current workplace, 356 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: and especially when you add in parenting duties, we're not 357 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: doing our maximum. Taking these breaks aid during the day 358 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: in a productive way, but certainly in the evening, to rest, 359 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: to recharge will make you more productive, will make you 360 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: better during the day. You will be more successful at 361 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: work if you actually treat this machine like any other 362 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: machine that needs some maintenance, needs rest, regularly needs, you know, nurturance, 363 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: needs recharging. You can't just run yourself into empty because 364 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: that will not be helpful. That won't help you. The 365 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: price of eggs. 366 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: Yeah true, doctor guy has told you. When it comes 367 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: to the breaks and connection time, I feel like a 368 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: lot of people will then go to the technology breaks, 369 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: which I think are worst. I'd rather be working than 370 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: scrolling on Instagram or doing something like that, what are 371 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: your favorite off technology breaks that you love and that 372 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: you tell other people to do. 373 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: Okay, great, thank you for saying that, because you're making 374 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: the point that those Instagram breaks and this, you know 375 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: the sciences, they're not They don't we charge you. No, 376 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: it's a distraction, it's a number. 377 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 2: It trains you, it depresses you. It's just anxiety numbing it. 378 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: Off the phone is where you need to do breaks. 379 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: It depends on what you've been doing. But you want 380 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: to do something the opposite, taking a walk around the block, 381 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: sitting in nature, going up and down some stairs for 382 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: some exercise, doing a short meditation. Ten minute power and 383 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: apps good signs about that can actually be useful. Forty 384 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: minute power apps not so useful. Too much you'll be groky, 385 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: But even ten minutes is good. Call someone who makes 386 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: you smile. If you have a grandparent, a parent who's 387 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: waiting to hear from you, a quick call. 388 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean yesterday, I was putting away laundry 389 00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: when my husband was at the gym last night, and 390 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to be on my phone, 391 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: but I like scrolling, So I'm like, I'm gonna call 392 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: my bestie and like put my laundry aways. 393 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 3: Well we're on FaceTime and we did laundry to yeah 394 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 3: and it was great. 395 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: Great, Yeah, exactly that that is what you should be doing. 396 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 1: So you should be doing the things that make you 397 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: actually feel refreshed, recharged, put a smile on your face. 398 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: And if you just check in with yourself. You know 399 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: the difference, you know, when you finish a phone call 400 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: or a five minute thing going like oh that was 401 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: kind of good, as opposed to like, okay, now what 402 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: you know? So, yes, be much more mindful about how 403 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: you curate these breaks. 404 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think a lot of times people are like, 405 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 2: well no, I'm like just chilling on the phone, like 406 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: that's the break, and it's like doing a technology Instagram 407 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: break is actually the farthest thing from a break in 408 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: my mind. 409 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: Correct, Do a puzzle, do a word, Do something that 410 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: activates different parts of your brain than you get to do. 411 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: Do some jigsaw puzzle, something you know, like something different 412 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: than what you've been doing all the time. 413 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: Right, I agree with you. What's your favorite thing to do? 414 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 3: Are you a puzzle guy? 415 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: Are you? 416 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: I'm fascinated by your whole brain. So I just want 417 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 3: to know, like what does when he's taking a break. 418 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: Thank you for the brain compliment. I like puzzles, and 419 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: so you know, I'll do a lot of the New 420 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: York Times kinds of puzzles. And here's another. This is 421 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: on my phone. But if I have five minutes and 422 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: I need a smile, I'm very partial to puppies, Vishla 423 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: puppies specifically because they have so many I just think 424 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: they're adorable, So you know, and my Instagram, that's all 425 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: it's going to show me if I got to reels 426 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: figured me out long ago. So here's some adorable puppy videos. 427 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: Five minutes, I'm smiling. It's goofy, it's silly, but I'm 428 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: in a great mood, so I will sometimes do that. 429 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: I love that so much. Guy, where can our listeners 430 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: find you? 431 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: They can find me at Guywinch dot com, guy Winch 432 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: on most of the social media stuff, and. 433 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: Can everybody get his book Mind Over Grind How to 434 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 2: Break Free when Work Hijacks your life. Guy, thank you 435 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: so much for coming on. You're a delight guy. 436 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. It was lovely talking to you both. 437 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: Lovely talking to you to you have a great day.