WEBVTT - Dr. Julie Smith ON: Unblocking Negative Emotions & How to Embrace Difficult Feelings 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.840 When you block emotion out, what you can end up 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.920 doing is blocking them all out. So I'll often have 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.600 people who get to therapy after years of doing that 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.520 and they feel numb, and they not only have they 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.639 managed to block out all these negative emotions, so life 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.600 is less painful in that way, it's almost become more 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.479 painful because they've also blocked out their ability to feel 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:26.160 joy or pleasure or love, and they start to question, gosh, 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:35.040 do I love my partner? Hey, everyone, welcome back to 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.680 On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.680 Thanks to each and every single one of you that 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.800 come back every week to listen, learn, and grow, and 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.040 I am so excited to be talking to you today. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.400 I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.160 Love is out and I cannot wait to share it 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.960 with you. I am so so excited for you to 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.160 read this book, for you to listen to this book. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.920 I read the audio book. If you haven't got it already, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.520 make sure you go to eight Rules of Love dot com. 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.480 It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:11.840 let go of love. So if you've got friends that 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.319 are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.840 you grab this book and I'd love to invite you 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.520 to come and see me for my global tour Love Rules. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.280 Go to Jay shedytour dot com to learn more information 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.600 about tickets, VIP experiences and more. I can't wait to 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.080 see you this year now. Today's guest is someone that 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.559 I've been following on social media for nearly the past 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.920 couple of years now, and I have loved her content 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.479 the way she presents ideas that are hard to understand 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.360 in simple ways through incredible props and demonstrations. I'm blown 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:52.440 away by her ability to communicate difficult ideas with ease, simplicity, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.760 and practicality. I'm talking about the one and only doctor 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.960 Julie Smith, who's a clinical psychologist with over a decade 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.960 of professional experience, having previously worked in the NHS with 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.160 veterans and the mod in addiction and crisis centers, and 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.880 now in private practice. She's also an online educator and 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.040 social media star, sharing bite sized mental health and motivational 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.360 videos online with a combined following of more than three 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.239 and a half million. In November twenty nineteen, Julie launched 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.160 her TikTok account to make her services and education about 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.400 mental health more accessible during the COVID nineteen pandemic. Doctor 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.560 Julie's audience on TikTok grew astronomically as young people related 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.320 to the video she was making about mental health and 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.600 her advice to use. Now. I am so excited because 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.000 in front of me, I have her first amazing book 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.320 that's out called Why Has Nobody told Me this before? 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.880 Everyday Tools for Life's Ups and Downs? I want you 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.200 to go out and grab a copy. It's already a 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.520 number one Sundaytimes bestseller, a best selling book. Please, please, 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.640 please go out and grab a copy of this, Doctor 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.720 Julie Smith, Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here, Oh, 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.760 thank you for having me. It's absolute pleasure up and 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:06.880 really looking forward to it. I know we've been trying 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.359 to make this happen for some time. Let's dive straight in. 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:15.960 I want to understand what you saw as the greatest 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.040 challenge of people that you were working with. When you 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.360 looked at the root challenges of patients you worked with, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.600 clients you worked with, people, you saw, people you spoke to. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.200 What are some of the biggest challenges that you think 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.040 people are dealing with right now? When you look at 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:34.680 the root, not the symptoms, not the leaves, but the 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.200 root of the problem, the root of the tree. You know, 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.080 that root of the problem can be different for everybody, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.840 But certainly what motivated me to begin all of this 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:45.720 kind of stuff and step out of the therapy room 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:50.040 a little bit was this sort of common theme of 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:56.120 people coming along to therapy and expecting me to do 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.000 something to them, so that so therapy was some sort 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.560 of treatment that would be done to them because they 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.880 felt at the mercy of how they felt, and a 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:09.280 lot of people didn't have the education about how their 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.960 own mind works and how their own body works. To 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:17.080 feel empowered by the idea that you can influence how 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.320 you feel, that you don't have to be completely at 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.080 the mercy of it. There are things you can do 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:26.000 to help yourself. And often once people had that information, 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.760 that was a real game changer, because suddenly, hang on 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.920 a minute, there are some tools I can learn that 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.520 could help. And it doesn't have to be rocket science. 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.159 It doesn't have to all be out of my hands. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:38.839 It's not something the doctor's going to do to me. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.880 It's not this kind of spooky, you know, sort of 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:46.120 magical thing that I can't do myself. So I think 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.320 that really sort of fired me up. That there was 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.440 a lot of information and education that is often provided 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:58.640 within certain therapies. Anyway, that just is a life changing 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.800 for people because it enabled to take their health into 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.400 their own hands a bit more and not feel that 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.240 there are the mercy of it. Yeah, absolutely, I love that. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.520 I mean that was such a great piece of insight 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:16.000 because I think we all secretly hope that there's going 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:17.960 to be someone out there who comes and solves all 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.040 our problems, right, whether it's a therapist, or whether it's 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.080 a partner, or whether it's a friend, or whether it's 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.400 a mentor or a coach or whoever it may be. 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.280 I think we all secretly hope that there's someone out 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.680 there who's just going to magically turn up and be 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.400 our fairy godmother and sprinkle their magic dust and all 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.240 of a sudden our lives going to look different. And 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.200 what you're kind of saying, which is the inconvenient, painful truth, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.480 is that well, actually, or actually it's a fortunate thing, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.840 it's a beautiful thing, is that actually it's all within 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.279 your own control. You have the ability to make choices 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.960 and habits and practices that can define that. Why do 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.760 you think it is that we are looking to outsource 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.960 our well being or outsource our journey? Why is it 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.680 that we're trying to say fix me or solve me? 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.120 Where does that come from? I think it comes from 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.200 sometimes not knowing, not knowing that there are things you 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:16.120 can do that help, and that I think there's a 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:22.360 sort of culture around needing to buy something that is 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.559 going to fit. You know, it's good marketing. I think 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.160 you know that lots of companies are based on making 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.440 you feel like there's something wrong with you and they 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.440 can fix it if you buy this product off there. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.320 And but also mixed in with the fact that there 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:40.000 isn't enough education around how your mind works and how 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.359 you can manage your own health. We get a little 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.200 bit of that around physical health, but nothing really in 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.240 terms of mental health. And I kind of felt like, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.039 you know, all these people want to say we're having 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.279 some of these little bits of education that we're really 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.120 making this difference. Day today, I was kind of thinking, 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:57.560 why why do people have to pay to come and 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.880 see someone like me to find that out, because you 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.280 know that's not obviously some people come for full therapy, 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.839 which you know is brilliant and helps lots of people. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:09.760 But there were a lot of people that were coming 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.800 along and once they had the education, they were raring 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.640 to go. They that was enough, and so I kind 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.160 of wanted to make that more available. Absolutely so for 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.600 those of you who don't have the book in front 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.680 of you yet, I know you will after this podcast, 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:29.040 doctor Julius talks about everything from moods to motivation, to 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.760 emotional pain, to grief, to self doubt, to fear, to 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.480 stress to meaning all beautiful themes and topics, and we're 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.320 going to dive into a few of my favorites from 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.920 when I've received her book over the holidays, I really 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.360 wanted to talk about mood and I want to dive 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.840 in with you now. I think mood and a low 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.240 mood have become such common experiences now, and the idea 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.280 that we have certain days where we feel good, and 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.520 there are certain days where we just feel bad and 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.000 unmotivated and we don't want to get out of bed 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.920 and we don't feel like doing anything. How do we 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:11.880 how should we be approaching those days or those weeks 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.240 that start to feel like we're stuck, We're not moving, 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.400 nothing's happening. In our life. How should we approach that 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.840 feeling and emotion. Well, I think it starts with understanding 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.640 that it's a normal part of being a human being. 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.360 And I think that's often something that holds us all 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.400 back is you know, there's this sort of I don't 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.040 know if it was something that's been sort of pushed 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.319 by you social media or anything like that, but it's 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.800 definitely online. Is this idea that that somehow our default 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.560 is one of happiness and contentment and anything outside of 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.320 that means you're getting something wrong and which is just 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.800 absolute rubbish. You know that human beings are built to 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.600 fluctuate and emotions come and go, The pleasant ones come 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.160 and go, and the unpleasant ones come and go as 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.959 a part of that experiences and that's so normal. And 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.120 you know, if you if you wake up and your 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.040 mood isn't as you want it to be, that can 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.800 be caused by so many different things. You know, you 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.640 might have not slept well, you might be dehydrated, you 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.800 might be dealing with something normal like grief, or there 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.000 could be anything. But if you wake up in that 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.839 mood and then respond to that mood by telling yourself 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.920 that you're failing at life because you're not as happy 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.760 as everybody else, or you know, look at that woman 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.719 down the road who's always energetic and always enthusiastic, and 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.520 she must never get a terrible mood like this, And 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.760 what am I getting wrong? And we get into that 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:42.880 narrative that pulls us further down that spiral, rather than 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.520 allowing us to kind of acknowledge this feeling is here, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.400 allow it to be present, and allow yourself to also 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:53.640 then question what could be causing this? So what are 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:55.840 my needs? Are there any needs that are unmet? And 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:01.200 can I meet those that could help? And sometimes it 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.319 is just a matter of doing what you can to 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.360 meet those needs if you can identify any, and then 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.560 allowing that to calm naturally. Yeah. No, I like the 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:17.000 idea of meeting your needs because I think what's really 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.439 interesting about what you just said is that so many 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:28.480 of us are almost judging ourselves or critiquing ourselves for 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.079 running out of energy. And it's almost like looking at 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.720 your phone on three percent and hating your phone for 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.520 being on three percent battery life, and it's like, well, no, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:42.880 a phone is either going to be a hundred or 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.280 ninety or eighty or seventeen it's going to get to 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.520 three or it's going to get to one if you 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.520 don't recharge it. And it's the same thing with us, 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.679 Like you're saying that as humans, our emotions fluctuate, our 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.160 moods fluctuate. We're either at one hundred percent or we're 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.160 at three percent. But we can't start hating ourselves at 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.839 three percent. We can't start judging. We have to go, Okay, 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:04.800 I need to stop and recharge. I need to stop 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.320 and take a moment. And that's where your question of okay, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.839 what are my unmet needs? It's almost like, okay, well, 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.000 what do I need to do to charge me? That 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.840 feels like the right way to think about that. I 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.160 think one of the biggest challenges doctortunity you've probably seen 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.160 is that people trying to avoid loan moods. We're trying 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:26.560 to avoid feeling bad, we're trying to avoid feelings. What 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.440 happens when you try to avoid an emotion or when 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.800 you trying to avoid feeling what actually happens to us? Yeah, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:35.559 well it can get quite extreme, you know, if we 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.040 have these kind of blocking behaviors. So if a feeling 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.400 is aversive in some way, whatever it might be if 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.600 we as soon as we start to feel it or 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.040 even see signs of it that they might be approaching, 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.240 we put in those blocking behaviors, and so I don't know, 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.480 you might find yourself with your head in the fridge 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.720 looking for something to eat, or you might find yourself, 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.920 you know, on Netflix, just watching program after program, or 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.760 or drinking or whatever. That blocking behavior is for that person, 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.360 maybe staying really busy at work and trying to convince 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.080 yourself you know that you've got all this energy or whatever. 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.600 But when you do that, when you when you block 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.360 emotion out, what you can end up doing is blocking 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.800 them all out. So I'll often have people who get 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.559 to therapy after years of doing that and they feel numb, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.240 and they not only have they managed to block out 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.200 all these negative emotions so life is less painful in 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.760 that way, it's almost become more painful because they've also 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.280 blocked out their ability to feel joy or pleasure or love, 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.920 and they start to question, gosh, do I love my partner? 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.120 You know, I'm not interested in all the things that 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.520 I used to find pleasurable. And there's this kind of numbness, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.240 and people imagine that there's this sort of you know, 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.840 emotions have this bad rap, don't they, where they're apparently 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.440 this kind of irrational mess that you need to stay 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.680 away from in order to be a highly functioning individual, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.839 rather than it being a part of how we work. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.880 And so, you know, by by pushing all of those 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:05.840 away and trying to stay away from them with the 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.400 idea that will somehow be kind of logical beings, actually 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:14.200 being devoid of emotion strips away your life in terms 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.280 of your sense of meaning or your enjoyment from life. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.240 And so that idea that you know, if you block 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.920 one emotion well enough, you'll also block a lot of 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.840 others and then and then you can really start to struggle. 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.360 So a lot of what we do in therapy is, 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.959 you know, changing our relationship with emotion is looking at 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.920 how can we allow emotional experience to come and go 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.640 and not only accept it but also welcome it. You know, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:47.439 how could you allow fear or low mood or sadness 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.600 to be there and let it be welcome in the 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.599 present moment. I mean, that's just a bizarre kind of 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.640 state of affairs, right how. You know, we've never been 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.599 taught to do that. You're taught to kind of brush 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.480 it off and pretend it's not happening and make it 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:07.240 go away. And so it's a kind of new experience 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.800 and honestly, you'll know a lot about this yourself, with 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.199 you know, using sort of mindfulness to be able to 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:17.880 practice sitting there and allowing experiences to come and go. Yeah. No, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.600 I think the biggest thing I took away from what 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.400 you shared just there's this idea of blocking behaviors that 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:29.720 seem like very normal behaviors, and they seem very easy 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.680 and accessible, and they feel like they make sense. They 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.200 look normal because a lot of people do them, and 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.000 then when you really break it down and you go, oh, yeah, wow, 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.520 that's a blocking behavior. I'm actually trying to just numb 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.760 myself from feeling things. And I love what you said 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.880 where you were like, well, actually, if you number yourself 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.680 from feeling something, you potentially can number yourself from feeling 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.800 anything like everything, a lot of other positive emotions as well. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:00.680 And so by weakening your ability to feel pain, you 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:06.320 actually weaken your ability to feel joy. And that idea 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:13.800 is really fascinating because that as a block is a 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.840 block that we all know we don't want in our life. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.840 That's you know, I've loved that you've given me that 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.120 reflection today because I didn't necessarily connect the two in 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.800 that way when you talk a lot about motivation in 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.920 the second chapter. And I'm glad that you touched on 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.960 motivation because I know and I'm sure you get this too. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.280 I get so many dms on a daily basis or 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.280 messages saying like, I'm not motivated? What do I do? 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.040 How do I find motivation? I don't feel any motivation today. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.560 And one of the sections in your book that I 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.960 loved is called how do you make yourself do something 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.480 when you don't feel like it? And it's really funny 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.200 because someone asked me recently. They said, Jay, what do 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.240 you think is the greatest skill you can have as 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.760 a human? And I really thought about that, is like, 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.680 what is the greatest skill that you could have as 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.640 a human. And the idea that came to my head 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.200 was the greatest skill you can have as a human 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.120 is being able to do something that's good for you 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.720 even when you don't feel like it, because that is 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.080 the crux of life. Like the amount of days that 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:13.920 I wake up and actually want to go to the 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.920 gym are very very few, But do I feel amazing 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.280 after going to the gym. Yes, I have. Meditation has 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:22.600 been a part of my life for a long time, 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.160 so it's changed. I have a healthy relationship with meditation, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.120 but there are still days when I don't want to meditate, 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:33.120 or I'm too tired or exhausted, or I'm too bored 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.400 to go to sleep early, and so I'd rather think 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:36.960 that maybe if I stay up a bit late, I'll 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.840 be more entertained. And so I find that things that 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.240 are good for me feel hard in the beginning but 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.360 feel great afterwards, and things that are bad for me 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.720 feel easy in them beginning, but they're really bad for 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.880 me afterwards. Talk to us a bit about how do 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.440 we get good at doing things when we don't feel 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.120 like it. Because I am completely with you, I think 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.640 that's like an undefeatable skilled that we all need. Yeah, absolutely, 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:04.960 And I agree with what you were saying there. You know, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.600 it's that that sort of motivation feeling, that sort of 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.119 elevated energy inspired feeling that you get is the feeling 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:14.639 you get as you walk out the gym, not as 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.920 you walk in generally, and and it's it's after action 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.200 and effort you then think, you know, I never sort 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:23.840 of feel like going to the gym eitherough like, but 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:25.399 when I when I come back from the gym, I 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:27.240 think I should do this every day. This is great, 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:32.000 And I think it starts with recognizing that pattern, doesn't 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:36.200 it recognizing I know I'm not going to always feel 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.240 like it because not because I'm Again, it's not about failure, 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.320 It's not about you know, I think a lot of 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.440 stuff online teachers people. You know, you've just got to 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.960 be motivated every day, and if you're not, then what 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.800 are you doing? And actually humans don't work that way. Motivation. 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.520 You have to treat it like any other emotion. Some 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.439 days it will be there, some days it won't, So 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.720 you can't rely on it to be there to help 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.600 you reach your goals. So, you know, if you've got 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.280 goals that you've set around your own values and what's 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.919 really important to you, you have to then find a 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.239 way of being able to keep that consistent even when 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.320 you don't feel like it. So you can't make the 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.720 decision to act only based on do I feel like 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.280 a bit like cleaning your teeth? Right, So you clean 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.600 your teeth every day, You never consider whether you really 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.480 want to or not. It's just something that you do 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.080 because you consider yourself for someone who looks after their 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.960 dental hygiene, right, and it's you know, it's so it's 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:39.199 just part of your day. It's non negotiable, and you 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.080 can kind of work with it a little bit like that. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.440 But when you see emotion as something that can come 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:49.080 and go, you can then acknowledge that you can tap 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:53.440 into other reasons for doing the thing that you want 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.560 to do. So I don't feel like going to the 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.159 gym today, but I have set myself a goal to 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.560 in my fitness because it's important to me that I 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.479 am fit and healthy for my children as they grow up. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.000 I want to be able to play with them and 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:10.520 live a long life to be with them for as 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.280 long as possible, and those sorts of things, So you're 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.719 tapping into your value system and being absolutely clear on 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.080 why you're doing that thing. And even if it's you know, 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:23.919 if it's I have to go to this job that 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.680 I hate, it might be because you're going to put 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:27.960 food on the table at the end of the week 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.280 for your children, or you're going to keep a roof 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.840 over your family's head, And you know, you can tap 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:34.919 into those sorts of values even if it's something that 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.920 isn't you know, something that you would benefit from sort 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.320 of personally or in terms of your kind of health 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.200 or well being. You know, life can be really tough 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.280 in that way, but you can tap into well, why 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.320 is it that I'm doing this really really hard thing 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.560 that I'm hating. Oh, it's because actually, yeah, I'm the 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.679 breadwinner and it's important to me to look after my 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:00.960 family and stuff like that. You can kind of tap 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:04.320 into the values and but also something that's taught in 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:09.080 a therapy called dialectical behavior therapy dbt UM. It's often 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.240 taught to people who feel overwhelmed with emotion and then 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.720 respond to that emotion in a sort of high risk 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.840 or unhealthy way. And so what you're what you teach 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.879 people is a skill that they call sort of opposite action. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:28.159 So and you use mindfulness to help people recognize that 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.240 difference between having an urge to do something and then 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.960 acting on it. So you know your your The trouble is, 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.840 you know your different aspects of your experience are all 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.600 experienced at once. So it's like, I think it's like 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.160 weaves in a basket. You have you have your thoughts, 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.439 and you have your emotions. You have your physical state, 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.200 you have your urges to do or not do something, 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.399 but you don't experience them as separate. You know, you 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.400 don't describe it in your head. You you experience this 0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:01.960 whole thing in one and so you're often acting based 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.480 on urges and there's no gap in between. And so 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.800 you kind of use, you know, a mindfulness practice to 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.800 help just widen that gap so that you can experience 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.000 an urge. And in the book, I talk about just 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.080 silly game that I used to play with my sisters 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.520 growing up, where we would hold polo mints in our 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.359 mouths and it was a competition. See, you could not 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:25.040 crunch the mint because it's just you just can't do it. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.040 It's it's impossible, right, And and I didn't realize it 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.560 at the time, but what we were doing there was 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.560 practicing acting opposite to an urge. Um, you know, you 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.840 have this urge to crunch down on the mint, but 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.879 you learn that actually, I can experience that urge and 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.840 not act and I can even do the opposite to that. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:46.040 You know you can, and so you get this moment 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.760 to choose, and you know you'll be an expert on 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.320 this yourself. But that, you know, mindfulness helps to open 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.119 up that that gap that allows you to then choose 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.520 whether you're going to go with an urge or go 0:21:57.640 --> 0:21:59.479 opposite to it. You know, so if you wake up 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.840 and the urge to pull the duvet over and switch 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:04.680 a phone off and shut the world out for the day, 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.200 you get this choice, Okay, do I go with this 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.640 and or do I act opposite to it? And often 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.720 you have to make that decision pretty quick to kind 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.720 of you know, really kind of make the most of 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.439 the moment. But it's it's a great thing. You know. 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.639 You can use things like the sort of the mint 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:26.720 crunching competitions to just kind of practice being aware of 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.520 that and in kind of lighthearted ways so that you're 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:32.760 more skilled at doing it when you most need it. Yeah, 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.000 thank you for showing those two massive insights. The first 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.399 one was you talking about how we shouldn't rely on motivation. 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.679 I thought that was such a great way of phrasing it. 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:48.440 That we're reliant on motivation and we can't be reliant 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:52.200 on any feeling because we're going to feel different every day. 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:54.879 And the problem is we're trying to create the same 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.240 feelings every day, and you're spot on that when I 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.879 think about my life, I don't feel the same today 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:03.960 recording this episode with you as I felt the same 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.560 recording my last episode with the other guests. I feel different, 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.040 And so I can't rely on how I feel. I 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.760 have to rely on why I'm here and why I'm 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:16.600 doing this, and why I'm trying to serve my community 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.159 and why on purpose listeners want me to show up 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.000 at my best, and I want to show up for them, 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:26.120 and that's what's driving me, not not how I'm feeling 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.080 right now, and so almost being driven by something else. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.800 And then coming to what you just said, is that 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:36.760 difference between the urge and the ability to take that 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:42.160 space and time to respond. And in the spiritual texts 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.760 when we studied that about the mind, the three words 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.440 were thinking, feeling, and willing, So it being like the 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:52.720 different the gap between thinking and willing, like from having 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.959 the thought to actually doing it. You you have that 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.600 gap that can that you can adjust and edit and change. 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.320 And you're so right that we almost need to create 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.160 that gap in areas of our life where we're not 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.200 trying to practice, if that makes sense. So what I'm 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:10.920 trying to say there, and I'd love to hear your 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:12.960 thoughts on this, Doctor Julius that if you're trying to 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:17.560 wake up early in the morning, don't practice trying to 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.640 create this gap between the urgent pulling the duvet over 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.080 in that moment. Practice it outside of the moment so 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.640 that then you can bring it into that area, Whereas 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:30.480 if you practice in that area, chances are your default 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.119 action is going to come across. Does that make sense 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:35.600 and how could you build that conditioning in another area 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.679 of your life? Yeah? Absolutely, I would say practice with 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:42.879 things that feel easy and manageable, just to just create 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.720 some repetition in doing that. And actually, you know, nobody 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:49.400 will be starting from scratch either. You know there will 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:52.280 be times when you use that skill, but you just 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:55.200 haven't recognized that you've used it. And sometimes I think 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.720 becoming aware of when you use it and it's successful 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.040 helps you to feel more positive about the fact that 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:06.000 you can do it. So, um, I don't know. Yeah, 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:10.040 I've got young children, so you know sleep deprivation is 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:14.240 you know torture, and that you know your baby will 0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:16.359 wake up for the sixth time and a night and 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:17.920 you've got to be up at six for work and 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:22.000 you hear them cry and you think, I just cannot 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:24.800 get out of bed one more time, and so your 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:27.240 body is telling you know that I can't do this 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:31.119 in a very powerful way, but you do it, and 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:34.760 you do it because you have a set of values 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:36.800 about the kind of parent you want to be and 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:41.400 you know, and so you know in those instances, for example, 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:43.720 you will be doing things. Or it doesn't even have 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:45.040 to be at night. It could be anything. You know, 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:48.040 you might not feel like making another sandwich or you know, 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.159 buying another load of ice creams or whatever it is 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:55.080 of your family, but you you do things because you 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:57.960 maybe have a set of values around that or something's 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:02.800 important to you about that. And so it's really useful 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.399 I think to kind of sit and think about the 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.600 times when you already do that to success, so that 0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:11.400 you can really tap into that and recognize that therefore 0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:15.280 is possible to translate it and like you say, practice 0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.920 in a in a way that is enjoyable and manageable. 0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:22.800 And you know, even with the polo thing or you know, 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:25.720 kind of mindful eating and stuff like that, you know 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:29.560 where you kind of pause and experience food before you 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:32.719 allow yourself to then before neat it, for example, or 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:35.840 just kind of lighthearted things that feel easy because, like 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:38.480 you say, the first time you do it, it probably 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:41.480 won't go well, and then you think, oh, this doesn't work, 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.400 move on, and then you're stuck in the same cycle. Yeah. 0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:47.000 I love that. Have you actually done them video? Have 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:50.400 you done a video on the mints experiment? I think 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.840 it's actually a great one. No, yeah, I haven't. Yeah, 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:54.439 it would be. It would be good to see you 0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:56.159 do it with your sisters again, that would be. That 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:59.399 would be amazing. Yeah, I love that one. Yeah, I 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:01.560 think it's well, maybe you can come and collaborate when 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:03.679 you come to them. That's what we'll do. That's what 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:05.840 we'll do. Yeah, you can, we can do the testing it. 0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:09.159 I love that. One of the other things doctor Julie, Actually, 0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:10.560 this just came to mind while you were talking that 0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:13.359 you spoke about, was that we just feel this rush 0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:16.679 of everything at the same time. Can you help my 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:22.080 community today, an audience today, to understand the difference between thoughts, feelings, 0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:26.600 and emotions because we feel them all, or we experience 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:28.520 them all, as a better word, we experience them all 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.160 at the same time, and like you said, we don't 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:34.119 label them effectively. We don't even know the difference, and 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:38.199 we use the words interchangeably today, and that's probably not 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:42.760 healthy either, because then when we artic I think language 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:46.120 is just so important, and the way we articulate how 0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:50.000 we feel or an emotion, if it's incorrect in the 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:52.760 sense of how it works as a system, we're already 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:55.520 setting ourselves up for more difficulty. So could you just 0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:58.320 break down for us the three and how to know 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:02.600 the difference when we your incident? Sure so, certainly, I 0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:07.000 would say some people can tap into more easily one 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:09.680 over the other. So some people will always be able 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:13.760 to identify what they think but can't sort of label 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:16.280 feelings or something like that. Some people will be really 0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:18.639 tapped into how they feel physically in their physical state, 0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:22.680 but won't necessarily recognize thoughts. And that's normal and that's okay. 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.399 In terms of thoughts, I often talk to people about 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.840 it's that you know, the description, the narrative that's going 0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:30.240 on in your head, the way you talk to yourself 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:32.719 in your head, or the different sort of words that 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:36.359 pop into your head or images. Even so, it's that 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:37.960 kind of you know, how you talk to yourself in 0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:42.320 your head. Whereas emotions are of feelings and sensations that 0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:45.719 you have, and then you kind of we often separate 0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:48.840 that from sort of physical sensation and therapy, so we'll 0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:51.000 talk about your physical state, so you know where you 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:53.360 feel things in your body and how your body feels 0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:58.440 at certain times, and then behavior being I often split 0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.320 behavior into urgent action for reasons that we've been just 0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:04.160 talking about to get people to recognize that you might 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:05.960 have an urge to do something, but you might not 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:10.360 do it, and so you know, you know, actions are 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.000 what we do or don't do at any given point, 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:15.600 but you might be able to elaborate on those yourself. Actually, 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:20.040 I mean, how would you kind of describe emotions? Yeah? No, 0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:25.360 The difference that I've at least understood, and by the way, 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:28.880 I love what you said, the way I've heard it 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:36.680 being explained is that feelings are our experiences of emotions. 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:43.920 So emotions are something that is chemically, biologically, physically happening, 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:47.160 and then how we feel about what is happening is 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:53.520 our feeling. So for example, if my body is feeling exhausted, 0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:57.320 if my body is tired, and the emotional experience would 0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:01.480 be you know, low energy, the emotion, the emotional experience 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:05.160 would be fatigue, etc. We know what's happening with the 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:09.160 chemicals in that space. Then my feeling is, oh my god, 0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:13.480 I'm so exhausted, I'm shattered, I'm destroyed. And that's a feeling. 0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:16.360 That's a story that I'm adding to that. And now, 0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:19.680 as you said, the thought is the narrative, which I 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:23.720 love that way of describing thoughts. My narrative is, now, Oh, 0:30:23.800 --> 0:30:26.120 I should have taken better care of myself. I should 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:29.360 have slept earlier, I should have done this, I could 0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.960 have done that. I'm such an idiot because I'd right. 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:36.280 That's that thought narrative. So that's how it actually connects 0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:39.520 from from how I've understood it, and it's made sense 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.120 to me because I think a lot of stuff is 0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:47.880 happening biologically and chemically that we're then adding an emotional 0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:52.280 feeling and layer two that isn't helping because we get 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.080 stuck in our head with something that's actually quite physical. 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:59.000 If that makes sense, Yeah, absolutely, And often I get 0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:01.360 that when a really question I get is you know, 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:04.440 what's the difference between stress and anxiety? And often the 0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:07.600 answer that I give for that is often around they're 0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:11.040 actually part of the same physical reaction. You know, you 0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:14.520 have this one threat response, and you only have that 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:16.800 one threat response, so that what your body is doing 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:20.800 is essentially the same, but we can septualize it differently. 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:23.520 So you know, you and I often talk about this 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:28.360 idea of stress being Let's say you you allocate yourself, 0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:31.280 you know, ten minutes to go off and go to 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:34.760 the post office and post a parcel and you get 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:37.880 there and there's this huge queue and you'll stood there, 0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:40.960 you know, tapping your foot thinking, oh no, I'm gonna 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:43.240 relate for my meeting. I an allocated ten minutes for this, 0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:47.640 and that kind of pounding heart and you know, the 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.360 sweaty palms, and that increase in the level of your 0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:55.040 alertness is your stress response. That's enabling you to sort 0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.120 of increase your alertness so you can reprioritize if you 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:01.040 need to, so that your brain can start problem solving 0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:03.760 and working out do we ditch this and get to 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:05.520 the meeting? Is that more important? Or would do we 0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:08.160 do this? And or how can we you know, skip 0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:11.720 the key or something, and so you kind of that 0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.920 would be stress. We would conceptualize that threat response or stress, 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:18.520 but if it was anxiety, then it's more likely to 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:22.240 be based around sort of something like fear, so some 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:27.240 sort of threat, physical threat to your safety for example, 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:30.760 or a psychological threat. Let's say it might turn into 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:35.080 anxiety if you were really worried about this, you know, 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:37.240 maybe it's not a meeting, maybe it's a big conference, 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:40.360 and walking in late would mean you have felt humiliated 0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:43.600 or and that would be a psychological threat, right, and 0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:48.960 so you might feel anxious. And so it's still that 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:53.280 same threat response kicking off, but you're conceptualizing it slightly differently. 0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.680 And when I was researching for the book, actually I've 0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:02.960 found some great research around sort of motion, vocabulary and granularity, 0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:07.560 so the ability to feel something and give it a label, 0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:10.200 and it really doesn't matter what that label is. It 0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:12.640 doesn't matter if it matches everybody else. It helps if 0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:14.960 it matches up everybody else's, but it doesn't have to. 0:33:15.480 --> 0:33:18.800 The more labels you have for different feelings that you have, 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.080 the better your outcomes in terms of how you're then 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:25.719 able to deal with it, because you're just giving your 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:28.360 brain a little label that says, Okay, I recognize this, 0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:31.120 I know what to expect from this exactly. I love 0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:32.760 that and I'm so glad that you brought that up 0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:36.920 because I think that diagnosing something is what makes it 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.120 easier to deal with. If you don't give something a label, 0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:43.720 you're now dealing with uncertainty again. And I think with 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:47.080 a lot of anxiety and stress, we have repetitive thoughts 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:51.600 and repetitive feelings. It's not necessarily a new thing. A 0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:53.960 lot of the time it's the same thing being triggered 0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:57.320 by a particular event, a particular person, a particular place, 0:33:57.640 --> 0:33:59.760 and therefore being able to label it, as you said, 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:02.240 allows you to feel a bit of comfort with it. 0:34:02.360 --> 0:34:05.200 Like I know that anytime I go on stage, I 0:34:05.280 --> 0:34:08.000 will always feel a sense of nervousness, Like I will 0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:11.000 always feel nerves no matter how many times I've spoken 0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:14.080 on stages to tens of thousands of people, whatever it is, 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:17.200 I always do. And as I got more used to that, 0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:19.719 I just started to realize, that's what happens when I care. 0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:22.160 And I was like, that's what happens when I care. 0:34:22.280 --> 0:34:26.200 That's what happens when I really am genuinely present with 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.320 that feeling of this is important, this is meaningful. And 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:32.200 when I sit into that and I breathe that way, 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:33.960 and I have my breathing practice that I do with 0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:37.520 my mindfulness practice. It happens every time, but I already 0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:40.120 know it's going to happen, and so now I'm not surprised. 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:42.560 Then it's not something new, Whereas, like you said, if 0:34:42.560 --> 0:34:45.920 you don't label that, I label it as care. If 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:48.239 you don't label that with a word, now it's like, 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:51.080 oh no, this is happening all over again, and I 0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:52.640 don't know what to do with it, and I don't 0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:55.399 know why it's happening. So I think that's a really 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:58.160 great insight. One of the things you go into this book, 0:34:58.200 --> 0:35:01.040 which I thought was really beautiful and really important, is 0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:04.880 grief and loss. And of course so many people have 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:07.600 lost so many people. In the last couple of years. 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:12.360 I lost two really deep people in my life, and 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:15.040 not to COVID nineteen, but I couldn't see them because 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.279 I couldn't travel back. So I lost one of my 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:20.360 spiritual mentors who have spoken about on the podcast before, 0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:22.879 to stage four brain cancer and he passed away after 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.040 many years of suffering with that. And then I lost 0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:29.040 one of my closest friends who I lived as a 0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:31.440 monk with he was still a monk and he passed 0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:33.439 away to cancer. As well, and I couldn't go back 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:36.400 and see him because I can travel back to the 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:40.400 UK where where they were in a hospital. And so 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.840 grief is something that I think is one of the 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:48.400 hardest things to talk about. I even often get messages 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.480 from people saying, well, what do you say to your 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:53.880 friend when they've just lost someone? You know? What do 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.800 you say? Like? What do you text? Like? Okay, you 0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:58.000 can text your condolences and your love, but what do 0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:01.400 you say what? As a therapy beast, what is the 0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:04.319 healthiest thing to do when your friend has lost someone? How? 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:06.440 How should you talk to them? What is something that 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:10.359 is useful, comforting and helpful at that time? I think 0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:13.239 a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah, and I've 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:15.279 done some videos on this actually because it's a really 0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:18.200 common question. And I feel like, you know, for everybody 0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:21.840 who's struggling with grief or something else, there are this 0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:26.160 circle of people around them who really care and are 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:29.360 then struggling with the idea of getting it wrong and 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:32.120 saying the wrong thing. And I think a lot of 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:36.400 people worry so much about saying the wrong thing that 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:39.120 they don't say anything at all. And certainly I've done 0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:43.200 that before myself. And you know that I think we 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.600 have to maybe get away from the idea of having 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.600 specific things that we must say or must not say, 0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:53.400 and instead expressing being okay with expressing how we feel. 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:58.120 So you know, if something feels like a shock, you know, 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:02.520 say that, label it. And and if you're worried about 0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:05.440 what to say or what not to say, say that too. 0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:08.839 You know, wow, I you know, I feel so sad 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:11.440 for you, this is awful. How I really want to 0:37:11.520 --> 0:37:14.480 be there for you, but I have no idea how 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:17.600 or what to say. And then you know, if you 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:19.720 go with how you feel in terms of you probably 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:22.319 want to know how they're doing, and so ask those 0:37:22.400 --> 0:37:24.920 questions and maybe make those you know, if you want 0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.120 that person to feel able to open up, maybe ask 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:32.000 open questions you know that aren't going to open questions 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.000 are questions that invite an answer that's longer than a 0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:37.839 yes or no answer. So you know, if you ask 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.800 it are you okay? Someone will go yeah, fine. But 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:43.759 if you ask how are you doing, then someone is 0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:46.360 invited to kind of talk at length and things like that. 0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:49.920 So if you're wanting to start a conversation about that 0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:52.080 sort of thing, then those are great ways to do that, 0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:55.080 but really I would You know, you can kind of 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:57.879 turn yourself up with what's the right thing to say, 0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.640 what's what's meaningful or profound and or going to change 0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:03.640 how they feel? And essentially you're not going to change 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:05.720 how they feel. What you can add to the mix 0:38:06.360 --> 0:38:10.680 is letting them know you care for them and that 0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:15.120 their distress matters to you and that you want to 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:17.560 get it right. So you know, it's okay to ask 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:20.160 someone how can I support you through this? What do 0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:23.040 you need? Because often those people will have an idea 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:27.120 about what they need, and often it's just checking in, 0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:29.880 isn't it, and knowing someone's there to support you. I mean, 0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:32.480 what helpful things that people have said to you? You 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:36.080 know what's really interesting is that I don't think I 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:38.120 don't think a lot of people did say anything to me, 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.920 and not that I needed them too. I'm a I'm 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:44.640 an interesting person with certain things, Like I find when 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:47.920 I go through pain or stress or anxiety, I like 0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:50.440 sorting it out myself. So I'm not much of a 0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:52.799 I'm not much of a talk or when it comes 0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:54.840 to certain things, apart from if I'm working with a 0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:58.239 coach or a therapist or someone who I trust is 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:02.959 helping me make sense of something. And so but I agree, 0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:04.520 I mean, I agree with everything you just said. I 0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:07.680 think that the biggest thing that I think you said 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:13.239 is the problem is when we speak to someone in pain, 0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:17.359 whether they're in grief, whether they've just broken up, whether 0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:21.239 they've been through a divorce, or whether they're experiencing anxiety, 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:25.520 the biggest problem is we're trying to say something that 0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:29.680 we hope will change how they feel, which is not 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:33.239 going to happen. It's too much pressure on you, it's 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:36.680 too much pressure on them. It's just not going to happen. 0:39:37.200 --> 0:39:39.359 And I remember when I first started coaching, and I'm 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:41.480 sure you feel the same way as a therapist. And 0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:42.960 I don't want to speak for you, but I know 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:45.840 that I used to carry that pressure around that I 0:39:45.960 --> 0:39:49.360 had to say something profound in every meeting, and that 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:52.440 every connection you have with someone you have to drop 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:55.279 these pearls of wisdom that are going to solve their 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:58.920 life and be like this opening, magical doorway. And you 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:01.359 just realize that now you're not even listening to them 0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:03.560 because you're working so hard to come up with this 0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:08.920 false piece of insight that's going to help someone and 0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:11.640 that actually, if you just sat and listened and like 0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:16.239 you said, asked open questions and we're just present, that's 0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:18.359 what that person needed more than ever. And I think 0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:21.320 I'm segueing a little bit, but even in our romantic 0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:24.799 relationship and our friendships, the problem is we're always trying 0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:28.640 to say things that we hope will change how people feel, 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:32.040 and the truth is we don't have that power. And 0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:35.640 trying to have that power creates so much pressure and 0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:38.680 burden on you that you feel so weighed down by 0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:41.520 it that, like you said, you don't say anything, or 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:43.920 you try and say something, and then you're upset that 0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:47.600 it didn't change how they feel. So that to me 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:50.080 has been the biggest takeaway from what you just said, 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:53.839 And hopefully I've just illuminated some of my thoughts on that. Yeah, 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:57.080 I think, and it's interesting actually how things work in therapy. 0:40:57.120 --> 0:40:59.200 You know, someone might go to therapy for the first 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.680 time and imagine that they're going to take this feeling 0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:06.040 in and the therapist will say something that will make 0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:09.320 it go away, and actually what you do as a 0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:13.440 therapist is sit with them in it, and yeah, you know, 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.799 you kind of if someone's let's say someone's in a hole. 0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:22.359 I think renee Brand did this example really well when 0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:24.360 she did a sort of example of the difference between 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:27.640 sympathy and empathy. And you know, instead of kind of 0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:29.759 standing looking down in the hole and saying, wow, that 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:34.319 looks terrible. In therapy, particularly, what we do is get 0:41:34.400 --> 0:41:36.080 down in the hole with them and say, yes, this 0:41:36.280 --> 0:41:39.600 is this is really tough. How are we going to 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:42.800 work on this together? And you know what's next, and 0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:46.040 so you know that there's this real I think when 0:41:46.160 --> 0:41:51.560 someone is grieving, it's okay to just be with them 0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:54.480 through your pain, like through their pain. So there is 0:41:54.560 --> 0:41:56.680 no way that you can remove that pain. There's no 0:41:56.760 --> 0:41:58.920 way that you can bring the person back or make 0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:03.080 it disappear or exit. But you underestimate the power of 0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:07.640 simply walking alongside someone through it and allowing them to 0:42:07.760 --> 0:42:10.880 just feel heard and cared for. Nobody really wants to 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:13.280 be told what to do. They want to feel heard. 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:15.640 They want to feel that they matter and how they 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:20.000 feel matters, and that in itself has such a profound 0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:23.600 impact over time. But you know, building that kind of 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:27.000 trusting relationship with someone is huge. So yeah, take away 0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:31.000 those expectations to be some kind of you know, healer 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:34.440 or you know, fix her upper and just work on 0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:36.719 being a really good friend to someone. I want to 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:39.880 segue a little bit, Doctor Julie, with what we were 0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:44.040 talking about the idea of relationships and romantic relationships and 0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:48.720 love and breakups, because a lot of the emotions we feel, 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:52.719 a lot of the feelings we experience are based on 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.960 our relationships around love and so whether it's the feeling 0:42:57.040 --> 0:43:00.680 of losing love, never getting love, never find love, not 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:07.000 being lovable, not being enough, not knowing how to love like, 0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:09.960 there is a lot of anxiety and stress around that, 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:12.080 as you're well aware, and as you know in our work, 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:15.800 we come across a lot when you look at that, 0:43:16.440 --> 0:43:21.040 when you look at the feeling of I am trying 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:26.719 to find someone to solve the void I have within myself, 0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:31.279 or the idea that if I find someone then I'll 0:43:31.320 --> 0:43:35.760 be complete, if I find someone then I'll be whole. 0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:40.480 How do you work with someone And I know that 0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:42.520 it's case by case, and of course I'm giving a 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:45.239 broad question, but with that, how do you work with 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:48.880 someone who you notice that that is a trait that 0:43:49.000 --> 0:43:51.239 they have, Like, how do you work with that kind 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.640 of an individual who has that kind of a trait, Well, 0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:58.080 I guess you work with someone based on the idea 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:01.640 that if they haven't met that person yet, that you 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.160 can't guarantee they're going to come along. So you have 0:44:04.480 --> 0:44:10.320 to start taking responsibility for your happiness. And while actually 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:13.640 you know getting in relationships can be really helpful for 0:44:13.760 --> 0:44:17.440 people's well being, and you know that the changes and 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:19.239 the development that you go through by being in a 0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:23.200 relationship can be wonderful and really healing in many ways, 0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:28.120 but you don't ever want to put the responsibility for 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:31.279 your own healing or your own happiness in that other 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.800 person's hands. So I would say, you know, in working 0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:38.960 with someone who was maybe kind of dealing with that 0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:41.400 idea that they were sort of waiting for someone to 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:44.760 come along in order for them to then be happy, 0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:51.040 it would really be about looking at growing your life 0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:54.680 as it is now and making that more meaningful for you, 0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:58.959 more purposeful based on your own values, and really looking 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:02.200 at that relationship with this self, So looking at how 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:06.840 you know, if someone sort of feels unloved, for example, 0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:11.200 how are they treating themselves? You know, what are they 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.719 are they not being caring and loving to themselves or 0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:17.600 treating themselves well, and so a lot of therapy would 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:21.040 be looking reflecting on that relationship. I mean, there's a 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:25.239 lovely therapy called cognitive analytic therapy. It's SAT for short, 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:29.680 and that looks at how the relationship. The early relationships 0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:33.399 you have in life, so with parents and siblings, can 0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:36.560 then be reflected in our relationships that we have as adults. 0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:39.480 So you might have been in a slight. You know, 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.880 no family situation is perfect, so there will have been 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:46.360 situations that weren't ideal at some point, and as a child, 0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:48.680 you would have worked out how to get through those 0:45:48.800 --> 0:45:52.320 and how to survive them psychologically with certain safety behaviors. 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:56.480 For example, let's say a parent was sort of inconsistent 0:45:56.600 --> 0:45:58.680 with love. You might have learnt to be a real 0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:02.040 people pleaser to make sure that you made sure they 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:04.839 felt okay so that you could feel acceptable. And then 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:07.880 you get into relationships as an adult, and that habit 0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:12.040 of being that people pleaser continues, perhaps but then causes 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:14.160 you to do that to your own detriment. So maybe 0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:18.000 you're working so hard on being astute to everybody else's 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:20.200 feelings and making sure that everybody else is happy, that 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:23.240 actually it's making you ill because you're not looking after yourself, 0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:26.160 for example, And those therapies can be really helpful in 0:46:26.239 --> 0:46:29.120 looking at where did this cycle come from, you know, 0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:32.040 and if it's something around looking for somebody out there 0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:35.319 so that you can finally be happy, then you can 0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:38.320 really break that down to where's that coming from, and 0:46:39.160 --> 0:46:41.279 how can I fix that cycle in a different way 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.839 so that I'm not dependent on this this person coming 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:47.279 along and fixing it. Yeah, that's so great. So often 0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:50.040 we're fixing the wrong end of the cycle, right We're 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:53.920 just trying to solve the current feeling, the emotion, the 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:57.239 situational problem right now. And you're like, well, actually, let's 0:46:57.280 --> 0:46:59.640 look at where the cycle started and how that mindset 0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:02.680 got formed and how that behavior got formed, and how 0:47:02.800 --> 0:47:06.040 that desire for validation got formed. And actually, if we 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:09.920 solve that, then we can we can see this completely differently. 0:47:09.960 --> 0:47:12.719 And that I mean to me, that's that's really where 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:16.520 it all has to go. I've seen so many bad 0:47:16.640 --> 0:47:19.719 habits in myself that I picked up years ago in 0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:24.120 my childhood and beliefs and bad habits, and that now 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:27.520 you're like living them through as an adult, and you 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:30.080 look at yourself and you go, oh, wow, like I 0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:32.360 just thought this was normal, but it's it's not and 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:35.000 it's not healthy, and so how can I work on 0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:37.640 that now? And and actually tracing it back gives you 0:47:37.719 --> 0:47:41.799 a sense of separation from it as well, because you've got, oh, 0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:45.160 this isn't me, this isn't mine, this isn't this isn't 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:47.360 who I am, this is something I picked up along 0:47:47.400 --> 0:47:50.960 the way, And that distance is really helpful to say 0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:53.960 this isn't me, this is this is not all about me. 0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:57.120 Doesn't mean you're blaming it on someone else, but you 0:47:57.200 --> 0:47:59.480 are saying that, let me distance from this so I 0:47:59.560 --> 0:48:02.040 can act, so I can actually deal with it and 0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:05.360 work through it. When you wrote this book and you 0:48:05.440 --> 0:48:08.680 titled it beautifully, why has nobody told me this before? 0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:15.000 Where do you think mental health and well being going 0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:17.680 over the next few years? You know, when I think 0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:21.960 about things like web three, the metaverse, when I think 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:26.640 about obviously social media is continuing to grow. When I 0:48:26.800 --> 0:48:30.600 look at even people like yourself, who've you know, obviously 0:48:30.640 --> 0:48:33.840 been able to communicate these ideas so phenomenally well through TikTok, 0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:38.360 you know, we both know that social media can be 0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:40.840 an amazing tool to reach out to people, to connect 0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:43.880 with people, to serve people, to help with people. But 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:46.960 when you see people navigating their mental health and well 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.200 being moving forward, what do you think are sustainable daily 0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:54.160 practices that we need to implement in order to live 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:57.719 in a world that is technologically accelerated and advanced and 0:48:58.200 --> 0:49:01.480 isn't turning around. It's going to sound really boring, but 0:49:02.080 --> 0:49:05.120 a bit of self awareness, of which can come through 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:10.320 things like journaling, something quite simple, like journaling experience that 0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:16.520 allows you to stop and reflect on experience. And you know, 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:19.719 that's a smaller scale of a little bit of what 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:22.000 happens in therapy. And you know, we're talking about those 0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:26.760 cycles then, and the way you become able to tackle 0:49:26.920 --> 0:49:29.479 a cycle that you're stuck in in is by first 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:31.319 becoming aware of it. You know, if you if you're 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:34.120 not aware of what the problem is, how do you 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:37.600 even begin to think about solutions. And so, you know, 0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:39.920 even with this kind of fast paced world and everything's 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:42.920 online and our attention as being kind of stolen from 0:49:43.000 --> 0:49:47.319 us left, right, and center, the ability to step back 0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:50.640 and focus on you and your life for a moment 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:55.080 is really a victory. And and so I'm I'm a 0:49:55.200 --> 0:49:59.640 sort of big advocate for sort of journaling and things 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:02.279 like that. And even before I sort of did any 0:50:02.440 --> 0:50:05.279 clinical training, I look back and when I was sort 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:07.600 of growing up, any time that I was struggling with 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:10.360 different emotions that I couldn't make sense of, or a 0:50:10.440 --> 0:50:14.120 situation that was kind of troubling me, I'm like you, 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:17.120 I'm not a big kind of talker, or I'm very introvert, 0:50:17.160 --> 0:50:19.920 and I spend time alone. My thing would be write 0:50:19.960 --> 0:50:23.160 it down, and if you write for long enough, you 0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:26.920 can begin to sort of make more sense of a situation. 0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:29.120 And that's really what we do in therapy when we're 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:31.920 talking about those cycles. We literally map them out, So 0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:34.960 we write out what happens then, what happens next, what 0:50:35.040 --> 0:50:37.880 happens next, and then it comes background. So you literally 0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:40.799 get yourself a map in front of you, and by 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:44.000 doing that, you get this separation. So you know, in 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.279 the age of kind of social media growing or all 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:50.960 the problems that might come with that, you're only able 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:53.880 to tackle that and make conscious choices about what you 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:56.560 want for your life if you are able to step 0:50:56.640 --> 0:51:00.880 back and consider the problem first. Yeah, I'm totally with 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:03.520 you on that, and that that feels and resonates so 0:51:03.680 --> 0:51:07.040 deeply for everyone who's been listening or watching today. We've 0:51:07.120 --> 0:51:09.440 just dived into some of my favorite chapters. But as 0:51:09.480 --> 0:51:15.080 I said before, there's chapters on motivation, emotional pain, grief, 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:19.719 self doubt, fear, stress, and a meaningful life. And what 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:22.040 I love about the book is that every section has 0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:25.160 a beautiful summary with things to think about, things to 0:51:25.239 --> 0:51:29.239 reflect on. There's, you know, like this whole section here 0:51:29.280 --> 0:51:35.239 which breaks down certain introspection and reflection questions. So, doctor Julie, 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:37.080 I'm so grateful we got to spend this time together. 0:51:37.280 --> 0:51:39.239 Highly recommend everyone goes out and gets a copy of 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:42.480 Why has Nobody told me this before? Everyday Tools for 0:51:42.600 --> 0:51:45.800 life's ups and downs. I can't wait to meet you 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:47.520 and connect with you in person, and we're going to 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:52.480 do our Mint challenge or something similar. But thank you 0:51:52.560 --> 0:51:55.080 for sharing this with us. We end every episode of 0:51:55.120 --> 0:51:58.000 On Purpose with a final five. These are the fast 0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:01.200 five where you have to answer every question in one 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:05.120 word or one sentence maximum. So, doctor Julie Smith, are 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:10.560 you ready? Okay? Okay? Question number one is what is 0:52:10.680 --> 0:52:16.320 the best advice you've ever received to enjoy myself alongside anxiety? 0:52:16.640 --> 0:52:19.600 What is the worst advice you've ever received to calm down. 0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:24.919 How would you describe your current purpose touching people's lives 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:28.280 in a positive way with the skills that I have, beautiful? 0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:32.279 Question number four, what's something you used to value that 0:52:32.360 --> 0:52:35.799 you don't anymore? Probably say material things. I'm not sure 0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:39.400 I ever really valued material things, but we'll go with 0:52:39.520 --> 0:52:42.279 that one. Okay, great and fifth and final question. If 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:45.520 you could create one habit that everyone in the world 0:52:45.640 --> 0:52:47.560 had to follow and do every day, what would that 0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:53.400 habit be? Journaling? Nice? Beautiful everyone, Doctor Julie Smith. If 0:52:53.440 --> 0:52:56.040 you're listening or watching this episode, make sure that you 0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:59.400 tag us both on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter, or 0:52:59.440 --> 0:53:01.800 on Facebook so that we can see the nuggets of 0:53:01.840 --> 0:53:05.280 wisdom and all of that which you learned from this episode. 0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:06.880 I want to see all the takeaways. I want to 0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:09.800 see what you've what's resonated with you, what stuck with you, 0:53:09.920 --> 0:53:13.359 what you're applying, what you're practicing. Dr Judie Smith. I'm 0:53:13.400 --> 0:53:15.440 so grateful for your time and energy. Thank you for 0:53:15.520 --> 0:53:17.759 doing this at a seven pm on a Friday night 0:53:18.080 --> 0:53:20.839 in England, and I am so happy that we got 0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:24.320 to connect finally, all the best with everything. Congrats on everything, 0:53:24.800 --> 0:53:26.920 and I really do look forward to meeting you. Thank 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:30.000 you so much, and likewise, I'm really grateful for the 0:53:30.120 --> 0:53:32.000 chance to chat with you. It's been really really lovely.