1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: When you block emotion out, what you can end up 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: doing is blocking them all out. So I'll often have 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: people who get to therapy after years of doing that 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: and they feel numb, and they not only have they 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: managed to block out all these negative emotions, so life 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: is less painful in that way, it's almost become more 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 1: painful because they've also blocked out their ability to feel 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: joy or pleasure or love, and they start to question, gosh, 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: do I love my partner? Hey, everyone, welcome back to 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: Thanks to each and every single one of you that 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: come back every week to listen, learn, and grow, and 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: I am so excited to be talking to you today. 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: Love is out and I cannot wait to share it 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: with you. I am so so excited for you to 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: read this book, for you to listen to this book. 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: I read the audio book. If you haven't got it already, 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: make sure you go to eight Rules of Love dot com. 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or 21 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: let go of love. So if you've got friends that 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: you grab this book and I'd love to invite you 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: to come and see me for my global tour Love Rules. 25 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: Go to Jay shedytour dot com to learn more information 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: about tickets, VIP experiences and more. I can't wait to 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: see you this year now. Today's guest is someone that 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: I've been following on social media for nearly the past 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: couple of years now, and I have loved her content 30 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: the way she presents ideas that are hard to understand 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: in simple ways through incredible props and demonstrations. I'm blown 32 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: away by her ability to communicate difficult ideas with ease, simplicity, 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: and practicality. I'm talking about the one and only doctor 34 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: Julie Smith, who's a clinical psychologist with over a decade 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: of professional experience, having previously worked in the NHS with 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: veterans and the mod in addiction and crisis centers, and 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: now in private practice. She's also an online educator and 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: social media star, sharing bite sized mental health and motivational 39 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: videos online with a combined following of more than three 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: and a half million. In November twenty nineteen, Julie launched 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: her TikTok account to make her services and education about 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: mental health more accessible during the COVID nineteen pandemic. Doctor 43 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: Julie's audience on TikTok grew astronomically as young people related 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: to the video she was making about mental health and 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: her advice to use. Now. I am so excited because 46 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: in front of me, I have her first amazing book 47 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: that's out called Why Has Nobody told Me this before? 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: Everyday Tools for Life's Ups and Downs? I want you 49 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: to go out and grab a copy. It's already a 50 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: number one Sundaytimes bestseller, a best selling book. Please, please, 51 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: please go out and grab a copy of this, Doctor 52 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: Julie Smith, Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here, Oh, 53 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. It's absolute pleasure up and 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: really looking forward to it. I know we've been trying 55 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: to make this happen for some time. Let's dive straight in. 56 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: I want to understand what you saw as the greatest 57 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: challenge of people that you were working with. When you 58 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: looked at the root challenges of patients you worked with, 59 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: clients you worked with, people, you saw, people you spoke to. 60 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest challenges that you think 61 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: people are dealing with right now? When you look at 62 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: the root, not the symptoms, not the leaves, but the 63 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: root of the problem, the root of the tree. You know, 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: that root of the problem can be different for everybody, 65 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: But certainly what motivated me to begin all of this 66 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: kind of stuff and step out of the therapy room 67 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: a little bit was this sort of common theme of 68 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: people coming along to therapy and expecting me to do 69 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: something to them, so that so therapy was some sort 70 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: of treatment that would be done to them because they 71 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: felt at the mercy of how they felt, and a 72 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: lot of people didn't have the education about how their 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: own mind works and how their own body works. To 74 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: feel empowered by the idea that you can influence how 75 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: you feel, that you don't have to be completely at 76 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: the mercy of it. There are things you can do 77 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: to help yourself. And often once people had that information, 78 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: that was a real game changer, because suddenly, hang on 79 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: a minute, there are some tools I can learn that 80 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: could help. And it doesn't have to be rocket science. 81 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to all be out of my hands. 82 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: It's not something the doctor's going to do to me. 83 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: It's not this kind of spooky, you know, sort of 84 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: magical thing that I can't do myself. So I think 85 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: that really sort of fired me up. That there was 86 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: a lot of information and education that is often provided 87 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: within certain therapies. Anyway, that just is a life changing 88 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: for people because it enabled to take their health into 89 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: their own hands a bit more and not feel that 90 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: there are the mercy of it. Yeah, absolutely, I love that. 91 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: I mean that was such a great piece of insight 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: because I think we all secretly hope that there's going 93 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: to be someone out there who comes and solves all 94 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: our problems, right, whether it's a therapist, or whether it's 95 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: a partner, or whether it's a friend, or whether it's 96 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: a mentor or a coach or whoever it may be. 97 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: I think we all secretly hope that there's someone out 98 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: there who's just going to magically turn up and be 99 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: our fairy godmother and sprinkle their magic dust and all 100 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: of a sudden our lives going to look different. And 101 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: what you're kind of saying, which is the inconvenient, painful truth, 102 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: is that well, actually, or actually it's a fortunate thing, 103 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing, is that actually it's all within 104 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: your own control. You have the ability to make choices 105 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: and habits and practices that can define that. Why do 106 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: you think it is that we are looking to outsource 107 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: our well being or outsource our journey? Why is it 108 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: that we're trying to say fix me or solve me? 109 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: Where does that come from? I think it comes from 110 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: sometimes not knowing, not knowing that there are things you 111 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: can do that help, and that I think there's a 112 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: sort of culture around needing to buy something that is 113 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 1: going to fit. You know, it's good marketing. I think 114 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: you know that lots of companies are based on making 115 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: you feel like there's something wrong with you and they 116 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: can fix it if you buy this product off there. 117 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: And but also mixed in with the fact that there 118 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: isn't enough education around how your mind works and how 119 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: you can manage your own health. We get a little 120 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: bit of that around physical health, but nothing really in 121 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: terms of mental health. And I kind of felt like, 122 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: you know, all these people want to say we're having 123 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: some of these little bits of education that we're really 124 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: making this difference. Day today, I was kind of thinking, 125 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: why why do people have to pay to come and 126 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: see someone like me to find that out, because you 127 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: know that's not obviously some people come for full therapy, 128 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: which you know is brilliant and helps lots of people. 129 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: But there were a lot of people that were coming 130 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: along and once they had the education, they were raring 131 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: to go. They that was enough, and so I kind 132 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: of wanted to make that more available. Absolutely so for 133 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: those of you who don't have the book in front 134 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: of you yet, I know you will after this podcast, 135 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: doctor Julius talks about everything from moods to motivation, to 136 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: emotional pain, to grief, to self doubt, to fear, to 137 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: stress to meaning all beautiful themes and topics, and we're 138 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: going to dive into a few of my favorites from 139 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: when I've received her book over the holidays, I really 140 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about mood and I want to dive 141 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: in with you now. I think mood and a low 142 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: mood have become such common experiences now, and the idea 143 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: that we have certain days where we feel good, and 144 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: there are certain days where we just feel bad and 145 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: unmotivated and we don't want to get out of bed 146 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: and we don't feel like doing anything. How do we 147 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: how should we be approaching those days or those weeks 148 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: that start to feel like we're stuck, We're not moving, 149 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: nothing's happening. In our life. How should we approach that 150 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: feeling and emotion. Well, I think it starts with understanding 151 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: that it's a normal part of being a human being. 152 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: And I think that's often something that holds us all 153 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: back is you know, there's this sort of I don't 154 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: know if it was something that's been sort of pushed 155 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: by you social media or anything like that, but it's 156 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: definitely online. Is this idea that that somehow our default 157 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: is one of happiness and contentment and anything outside of 158 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: that means you're getting something wrong and which is just 159 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: absolute rubbish. You know that human beings are built to 160 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: fluctuate and emotions come and go, The pleasant ones come 161 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: and go, and the unpleasant ones come and go as 162 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: a part of that experiences and that's so normal. And 163 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, if you if you wake up and your 164 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: mood isn't as you want it to be, that can 165 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: be caused by so many different things. You know, you 166 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: might have not slept well, you might be dehydrated, you 167 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: might be dealing with something normal like grief, or there 168 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: could be anything. But if you wake up in that 169 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: mood and then respond to that mood by telling yourself 170 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: that you're failing at life because you're not as happy 171 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: as everybody else, or you know, look at that woman 172 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: down the road who's always energetic and always enthusiastic, and 173 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: she must never get a terrible mood like this, And 174 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: what am I getting wrong? And we get into that 175 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: narrative that pulls us further down that spiral, rather than 176 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: allowing us to kind of acknowledge this feeling is here, 177 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: allow it to be present, and allow yourself to also 178 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: then question what could be causing this? So what are 179 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: my needs? Are there any needs that are unmet? And 180 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: can I meet those that could help? And sometimes it 181 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: is just a matter of doing what you can to 182 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: meet those needs if you can identify any, and then 183 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: allowing that to calm naturally. Yeah. No, I like the 184 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: idea of meeting your needs because I think what's really 185 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: interesting about what you just said is that so many 186 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: of us are almost judging ourselves or critiquing ourselves for 187 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: running out of energy. And it's almost like looking at 188 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: your phone on three percent and hating your phone for 189 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: being on three percent battery life, and it's like, well, no, 190 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: a phone is either going to be a hundred or 191 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: ninety or eighty or seventeen it's going to get to 192 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: three or it's going to get to one if you 193 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: don't recharge it. And it's the same thing with us, 194 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: Like you're saying that as humans, our emotions fluctuate, our 195 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: moods fluctuate. We're either at one hundred percent or we're 196 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: at three percent. But we can't start hating ourselves at 197 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: three percent. We can't start judging. We have to go, Okay, 198 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: I need to stop and recharge. I need to stop 199 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: and take a moment. And that's where your question of okay, 200 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: what are my unmet needs? It's almost like, okay, well, 201 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: what do I need to do to charge me? That 202 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: feels like the right way to think about that. I 203 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: think one of the biggest challenges doctortunity you've probably seen 204 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: is that people trying to avoid loan moods. We're trying 205 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: to avoid feeling bad, we're trying to avoid feelings. What 206 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: happens when you try to avoid an emotion or when 207 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: you trying to avoid feeling what actually happens to us? Yeah, 208 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: well it can get quite extreme, you know, if we 209 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: have these kind of blocking behaviors. So if a feeling 210 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: is aversive in some way, whatever it might be if 211 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: we as soon as we start to feel it or 212 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: even see signs of it that they might be approaching, 213 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: we put in those blocking behaviors, and so I don't know, 214 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: you might find yourself with your head in the fridge 215 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: looking for something to eat, or you might find yourself, 216 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, on Netflix, just watching program after program, or 217 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: or drinking or whatever. That blocking behavior is for that person, 218 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: maybe staying really busy at work and trying to convince 219 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: yourself you know that you've got all this energy or whatever. 220 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: But when you do that, when you when you block 221 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: emotion out, what you can end up doing is blocking 222 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: them all out. So I'll often have people who get 223 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: to therapy after years of doing that and they feel numb, 224 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: and they not only have they managed to block out 225 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: all these negative emotions so life is less painful in 226 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: that way, it's almost become more painful because they've also 227 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: blocked out their ability to feel joy or pleasure or love, 228 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: and they start to question, gosh, do I love my partner? 229 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not interested in all the things that 230 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: I used to find pleasurable. And there's this kind of numbness, 231 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: and people imagine that there's this sort of you know, 232 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: emotions have this bad rap, don't they, where they're apparently 233 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: this kind of irrational mess that you need to stay 234 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: away from in order to be a highly functioning individual, 235 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: rather than it being a part of how we work. 236 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: And so, you know, by by pushing all of those 237 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: away and trying to stay away from them with the 238 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: idea that will somehow be kind of logical beings, actually 239 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: being devoid of emotion strips away your life in terms 240 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: of your sense of meaning or your enjoyment from life. 241 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: And so that idea that you know, if you block 242 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: one emotion well enough, you'll also block a lot of 243 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: others and then and then you can really start to struggle. 244 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: So a lot of what we do in therapy is, 245 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: you know, changing our relationship with emotion is looking at 246 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: how can we allow emotional experience to come and go 247 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: and not only accept it but also welcome it. You know, 248 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: how could you allow fear or low mood or sadness 249 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: to be there and let it be welcome in the 250 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,599 Speaker 1: present moment. I mean, that's just a bizarre kind of 251 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: state of affairs, right how. You know, we've never been 252 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: taught to do that. You're taught to kind of brush 253 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: it off and pretend it's not happening and make it 254 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: go away. And so it's a kind of new experience 255 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: and honestly, you'll know a lot about this yourself, with 256 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: you know, using sort of mindfulness to be able to 257 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: practice sitting there and allowing experiences to come and go. Yeah. No, 258 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing I took away from what 259 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: you shared just there's this idea of blocking behaviors that 260 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: seem like very normal behaviors, and they seem very easy 261 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: and accessible, and they feel like they make sense. They 262 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: look normal because a lot of people do them, and 263 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: then when you really break it down and you go, oh, yeah, wow, 264 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: that's a blocking behavior. I'm actually trying to just numb 265 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: myself from feeling things. And I love what you said 266 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: where you were like, well, actually, if you number yourself 267 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: from feeling something, you potentially can number yourself from feeling 268 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: anything like everything, a lot of other positive emotions as well. 269 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: And so by weakening your ability to feel pain, you 270 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: actually weaken your ability to feel joy. And that idea 271 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: is really fascinating because that as a block is a 272 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: block that we all know we don't want in our life. 273 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: That's you know, I've loved that you've given me that 274 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: reflection today because I didn't necessarily connect the two in 275 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: that way when you talk a lot about motivation in 276 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: the second chapter. And I'm glad that you touched on 277 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: motivation because I know and I'm sure you get this too. 278 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: I get so many dms on a daily basis or 279 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: messages saying like, I'm not motivated? What do I do? 280 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: How do I find motivation? I don't feel any motivation today. 281 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: And one of the sections in your book that I 282 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: loved is called how do you make yourself do something 283 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: when you don't feel like it? And it's really funny 284 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: because someone asked me recently. They said, Jay, what do 285 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: you think is the greatest skill you can have as 286 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: a human? And I really thought about that, is like, 287 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: what is the greatest skill that you could have as 288 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: a human. And the idea that came to my head 289 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: was the greatest skill you can have as a human 290 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: is being able to do something that's good for you 291 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: even when you don't feel like it, because that is 292 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: the crux of life. Like the amount of days that 293 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: I wake up and actually want to go to the 294 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: gym are very very few, But do I feel amazing 295 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: after going to the gym. Yes, I have. Meditation has 296 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: been a part of my life for a long time, 297 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: so it's changed. I have a healthy relationship with meditation, 298 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: but there are still days when I don't want to meditate, 299 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: or I'm too tired or exhausted, or I'm too bored 300 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: to go to sleep early, and so I'd rather think 301 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: that maybe if I stay up a bit late, I'll 302 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: be more entertained. And so I find that things that 303 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: are good for me feel hard in the beginning but 304 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: feel great afterwards, and things that are bad for me 305 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: feel easy in them beginning, but they're really bad for 306 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: me afterwards. Talk to us a bit about how do 307 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: we get good at doing things when we don't feel 308 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: like it. Because I am completely with you, I think 309 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: that's like an undefeatable skilled that we all need. Yeah, absolutely, 310 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: And I agree with what you were saying there. You know, 311 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: it's that that sort of motivation feeling, that sort of 312 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: elevated energy inspired feeling that you get is the feeling 313 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: you get as you walk out the gym, not as 314 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: you walk in generally, and and it's it's after action 315 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: and effort you then think, you know, I never sort 316 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: of feel like going to the gym eitherough like, but 317 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: when I when I come back from the gym, I 318 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: think I should do this every day. This is great, 319 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: And I think it starts with recognizing that pattern, doesn't 320 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: it recognizing I know I'm not going to always feel 321 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: like it because not because I'm Again, it's not about failure, 322 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: It's not about you know, I think a lot of 323 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: stuff online teachers people. You know, you've just got to 324 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: be motivated every day, and if you're not, then what 325 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: are you doing? And actually humans don't work that way. Motivation. 326 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: You have to treat it like any other emotion. Some 327 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: days it will be there, some days it won't, So 328 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: you can't rely on it to be there to help 329 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: you reach your goals. So, you know, if you've got 330 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: goals that you've set around your own values and what's 331 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: really important to you, you have to then find a 332 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: way of being able to keep that consistent even when 333 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: you don't feel like it. So you can't make the 334 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: decision to act only based on do I feel like 335 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: a bit like cleaning your teeth? Right, So you clean 336 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: your teeth every day, You never consider whether you really 337 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: want to or not. It's just something that you do 338 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: because you consider yourself for someone who looks after their 339 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: dental hygiene, right, and it's you know, it's so it's 340 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: just part of your day. It's non negotiable, and you 341 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: can kind of work with it a little bit like that. 342 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: But when you see emotion as something that can come 343 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: and go, you can then acknowledge that you can tap 344 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: into other reasons for doing the thing that you want 345 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: to do. So I don't feel like going to the 346 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: gym today, but I have set myself a goal to 347 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: in my fitness because it's important to me that I 348 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: am fit and healthy for my children as they grow up. 349 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: I want to be able to play with them and 350 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: live a long life to be with them for as 351 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: long as possible, and those sorts of things, So you're 352 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: tapping into your value system and being absolutely clear on 353 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: why you're doing that thing. And even if it's you know, 354 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: if it's I have to go to this job that 355 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: I hate, it might be because you're going to put 356 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: food on the table at the end of the week 357 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: for your children, or you're going to keep a roof 358 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: over your family's head, And you know, you can tap 359 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: into those sorts of values even if it's something that 360 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: isn't you know, something that you would benefit from sort 361 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: of personally or in terms of your kind of health 362 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: or well being. You know, life can be really tough 363 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: in that way, but you can tap into well, why 364 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: is it that I'm doing this really really hard thing 365 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: that I'm hating. Oh, it's because actually, yeah, I'm the 366 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: breadwinner and it's important to me to look after my 367 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: family and stuff like that. You can kind of tap 368 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: into the values and but also something that's taught in 369 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: a therapy called dialectical behavior therapy dbt UM. It's often 370 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: taught to people who feel overwhelmed with emotion and then 371 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: respond to that emotion in a sort of high risk 372 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: or unhealthy way. And so what you're what you teach 373 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: people is a skill that they call sort of opposite action. 374 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: So and you use mindfulness to help people recognize that 375 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: difference between having an urge to do something and then 376 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: acting on it. So you know your your The trouble is, 377 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: you know your different aspects of your experience are all 378 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: experienced at once. So it's like, I think it's like 379 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: weaves in a basket. You have you have your thoughts, 380 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: and you have your emotions. You have your physical state, 381 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: you have your urges to do or not do something, 382 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: but you don't experience them as separate. You know, you 383 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: don't describe it in your head. You you experience this 384 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: whole thing in one and so you're often acting based 385 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: on urges and there's no gap in between. And so 386 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: you kind of use, you know, a mindfulness practice to 387 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: help just widen that gap so that you can experience 388 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: an urge. And in the book, I talk about just 389 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: silly game that I used to play with my sisters 390 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: growing up, where we would hold polo mints in our 391 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: mouths and it was a competition. See, you could not 392 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: crunch the mint because it's just you just can't do it. 393 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: It's it's impossible, right, And and I didn't realize it 394 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: at the time, but what we were doing there was 395 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: practicing acting opposite to an urge. Um, you know, you 396 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: have this urge to crunch down on the mint, but 397 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: you learn that actually, I can experience that urge and 398 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: not act and I can even do the opposite to that. 399 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: You know you can, and so you get this moment 400 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: to choose, and you know you'll be an expert on 401 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: this yourself. But that, you know, mindfulness helps to open 402 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: up that that gap that allows you to then choose 403 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: whether you're going to go with an urge or go 404 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: opposite to it. You know, so if you wake up 405 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: and the urge to pull the duvet over and switch 406 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: a phone off and shut the world out for the day, 407 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: you get this choice, Okay, do I go with this 408 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: and or do I act opposite to it? And often 409 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: you have to make that decision pretty quick to kind 410 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: of you know, really kind of make the most of 411 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: the moment. But it's it's a great thing. You know. 412 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: You can use things like the sort of the mint 413 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: crunching competitions to just kind of practice being aware of 414 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: that and in kind of lighthearted ways so that you're 415 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: more skilled at doing it when you most need it. Yeah, 416 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: thank you for showing those two massive insights. The first 417 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: one was you talking about how we shouldn't rely on motivation. 418 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: I thought that was such a great way of phrasing it. 419 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: That we're reliant on motivation and we can't be reliant 420 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: on any feeling because we're going to feel different every day. 421 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: And the problem is we're trying to create the same 422 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: feelings every day, and you're spot on that when I 423 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: think about my life, I don't feel the same today 424 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: recording this episode with you as I felt the same 425 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: recording my last episode with the other guests. I feel different, 426 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: And so I can't rely on how I feel. I 427 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: have to rely on why I'm here and why I'm 428 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: doing this, and why I'm trying to serve my community 429 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: and why on purpose listeners want me to show up 430 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: at my best, and I want to show up for them, 431 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: and that's what's driving me, not not how I'm feeling 432 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: right now, and so almost being driven by something else. 433 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: And then coming to what you just said, is that 434 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: difference between the urge and the ability to take that 435 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: space and time to respond. And in the spiritual texts 436 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: when we studied that about the mind, the three words 437 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: were thinking, feeling, and willing, So it being like the 438 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: different the gap between thinking and willing, like from having 439 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,959 Speaker 1: the thought to actually doing it. You you have that 440 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: gap that can that you can adjust and edit and change. 441 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: And you're so right that we almost need to create 442 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: that gap in areas of our life where we're not 443 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: trying to practice, if that makes sense. So what I'm 444 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: trying to say there, and I'd love to hear your 445 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: thoughts on this, Doctor Julius that if you're trying to 446 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: wake up early in the morning, don't practice trying to 447 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: create this gap between the urgent pulling the duvet over 448 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: in that moment. Practice it outside of the moment so 449 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: that then you can bring it into that area, Whereas 450 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: if you practice in that area, chances are your default 451 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: action is going to come across. Does that make sense 452 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: and how could you build that conditioning in another area 453 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: of your life? Yeah? Absolutely, I would say practice with 454 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: things that feel easy and manageable, just to just create 455 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: some repetition in doing that. And actually, you know, nobody 456 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: will be starting from scratch either. You know there will 457 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: be times when you use that skill, but you just 458 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: haven't recognized that you've used it. And sometimes I think 459 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: becoming aware of when you use it and it's successful 460 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: helps you to feel more positive about the fact that 461 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: you can do it. So, um, I don't know. Yeah, 462 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: I've got young children, so you know sleep deprivation is 463 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: you know torture, and that you know your baby will 464 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: wake up for the sixth time and a night and 465 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: you've got to be up at six for work and 466 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: you hear them cry and you think, I just cannot 467 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: get out of bed one more time, and so your 468 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: body is telling you know that I can't do this 469 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: in a very powerful way, but you do it, and 470 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: you do it because you have a set of values 471 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: about the kind of parent you want to be and 472 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: you know, and so you know in those instances, for example, 473 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: you will be doing things. Or it doesn't even have 474 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: to be at night. It could be anything. You know, 475 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: you might not feel like making another sandwich or you know, 476 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: buying another load of ice creams or whatever it is 477 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: of your family, but you you do things because you 478 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: maybe have a set of values around that or something's 479 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: important to you about that. And so it's really useful 480 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: I think to kind of sit and think about the 481 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: times when you already do that to success, so that 482 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: you can really tap into that and recognize that therefore 483 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: is possible to translate it and like you say, practice 484 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: in a in a way that is enjoyable and manageable. 485 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: And you know, even with the polo thing or you know, 486 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: kind of mindful eating and stuff like that, you know 487 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: where you kind of pause and experience food before you 488 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,719 Speaker 1: allow yourself to then before neat it, for example, or 489 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: just kind of lighthearted things that feel easy because, like 490 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: you say, the first time you do it, it probably 491 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: won't go well, and then you think, oh, this doesn't work, 492 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: move on, and then you're stuck in the same cycle. Yeah. 493 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: I love that. Have you actually done them video? Have 494 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: you done a video on the mints experiment? I think 495 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: it's actually a great one. No, yeah, I haven't. Yeah, 496 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: it would be. It would be good to see you 497 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: do it with your sisters again, that would be. That 498 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: would be amazing. Yeah, I love that one. Yeah, I 499 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: think it's well, maybe you can come and collaborate when 500 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: you come to them. That's what we'll do. That's what 501 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: we'll do. Yeah, you can, we can do the testing it. 502 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: I love that. One of the other things doctor Julie, Actually, 503 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: this just came to mind while you were talking that 504 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: you spoke about, was that we just feel this rush 505 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: of everything at the same time. Can you help my 506 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: community today, an audience today, to understand the difference between thoughts, feelings, 507 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: and emotions because we feel them all, or we experience 508 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: them all, as a better word, we experience them all 509 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, and like you said, we don't 510 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: label them effectively. We don't even know the difference, and 511 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: we use the words interchangeably today, and that's probably not 512 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: healthy either, because then when we artic I think language 513 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: is just so important, and the way we articulate how 514 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: we feel or an emotion, if it's incorrect in the 515 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: sense of how it works as a system, we're already 516 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: setting ourselves up for more difficulty. So could you just 517 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: break down for us the three and how to know 518 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: the difference when we your incident? Sure so, certainly, I 519 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: would say some people can tap into more easily one 520 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: over the other. So some people will always be able 521 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: to identify what they think but can't sort of label 522 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: feelings or something like that. Some people will be really 523 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: tapped into how they feel physically in their physical state, 524 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: but won't necessarily recognize thoughts. And that's normal and that's okay. 525 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: In terms of thoughts, I often talk to people about 526 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: it's that you know, the description, the narrative that's going 527 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: on in your head, the way you talk to yourself 528 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: in your head, or the different sort of words that 529 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: pop into your head or images. Even so, it's that 530 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: kind of you know, how you talk to yourself in 531 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: your head. Whereas emotions are of feelings and sensations that 532 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: you have, and then you kind of we often separate 533 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: that from sort of physical sensation and therapy, so we'll 534 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: talk about your physical state, so you know where you 535 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: feel things in your body and how your body feels 536 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: at certain times, and then behavior being I often split 537 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: behavior into urgent action for reasons that we've been just 538 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: talking about to get people to recognize that you might 539 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: have an urge to do something, but you might not 540 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: do it, and so you know, you know, actions are 541 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: what we do or don't do at any given point, 542 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: but you might be able to elaborate on those yourself. Actually, 543 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: I mean, how would you kind of describe emotions? Yeah? No, 544 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: The difference that I've at least understood, and by the way, 545 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: I love what you said, the way I've heard it 546 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: being explained is that feelings are our experiences of emotions. 547 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: So emotions are something that is chemically, biologically, physically happening, 548 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: and then how we feel about what is happening is 549 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: our feeling. So for example, if my body is feeling exhausted, 550 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: if my body is tired, and the emotional experience would 551 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: be you know, low energy, the emotion, the emotional experience 552 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: would be fatigue, etc. We know what's happening with the 553 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: chemicals in that space. Then my feeling is, oh my god, 554 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm so exhausted, I'm shattered, I'm destroyed. And that's a feeling. 555 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: That's a story that I'm adding to that. And now, 556 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: as you said, the thought is the narrative, which I 557 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: love that way of describing thoughts. My narrative is, now, Oh, 558 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: I should have taken better care of myself. I should 559 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: have slept earlier, I should have done this, I could 560 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: have done that. I'm such an idiot because I'd right. 561 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: That's that thought narrative. So that's how it actually connects 562 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: from from how I've understood it, and it's made sense 563 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: to me because I think a lot of stuff is 564 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: happening biologically and chemically that we're then adding an emotional 565 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: feeling and layer two that isn't helping because we get 566 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: stuck in our head with something that's actually quite physical. 567 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: If that makes sense, Yeah, absolutely, And often I get 568 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: that when a really question I get is you know, 569 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: what's the difference between stress and anxiety? And often the 570 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: answer that I give for that is often around they're 571 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: actually part of the same physical reaction. You know, you 572 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: have this one threat response, and you only have that 573 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: one threat response, so that what your body is doing 574 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: is essentially the same, but we can septualize it differently. 575 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: So you know, you and I often talk about this 576 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: idea of stress being Let's say you you allocate yourself, 577 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, ten minutes to go off and go to 578 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: the post office and post a parcel and you get 579 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: there and there's this huge queue and you'll stood there, 580 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, tapping your foot thinking, oh no, I'm gonna 581 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: relate for my meeting. I an allocated ten minutes for this, 582 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: and that kind of pounding heart and you know, the 583 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: sweaty palms, and that increase in the level of your 584 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: alertness is your stress response. That's enabling you to sort 585 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: of increase your alertness so you can reprioritize if you 586 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: need to, so that your brain can start problem solving 587 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: and working out do we ditch this and get to 588 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: the meeting? Is that more important? Or would do we 589 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: do this? And or how can we you know, skip 590 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: the key or something, and so you kind of that 591 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: would be stress. We would conceptualize that threat response or stress, 592 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: but if it was anxiety, then it's more likely to 593 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: be based around sort of something like fear, so some 594 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: sort of threat, physical threat to your safety for example, 595 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: or a psychological threat. Let's say it might turn into 596 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: anxiety if you were really worried about this, you know, 597 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: maybe it's not a meeting, maybe it's a big conference, 598 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: and walking in late would mean you have felt humiliated 599 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: or and that would be a psychological threat, right, and 600 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: so you might feel anxious. And so it's still that 601 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: same threat response kicking off, but you're conceptualizing it slightly differently. 602 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: And when I was researching for the book, actually I've 603 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: found some great research around sort of motion, vocabulary and granularity, 604 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: so the ability to feel something and give it a label, 605 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: and it really doesn't matter what that label is. It 606 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it matches everybody else. It helps if 607 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: it matches up everybody else's, but it doesn't have to. 608 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: The more labels you have for different feelings that you have, 609 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: the better your outcomes in terms of how you're then 610 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,719 Speaker 1: able to deal with it, because you're just giving your 611 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: brain a little label that says, Okay, I recognize this, 612 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: I know what to expect from this exactly. I love 613 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: that and I'm so glad that you brought that up 614 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: because I think that diagnosing something is what makes it 615 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: easier to deal with. If you don't give something a label, 616 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: you're now dealing with uncertainty again. And I think with 617 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety and stress, we have repetitive thoughts 618 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: and repetitive feelings. It's not necessarily a new thing. A 619 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: lot of the time it's the same thing being triggered 620 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: by a particular event, a particular person, a particular place, 621 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: and therefore being able to label it, as you said, 622 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: allows you to feel a bit of comfort with it. 623 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: Like I know that anytime I go on stage, I 624 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: will always feel a sense of nervousness, Like I will 625 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: always feel nerves no matter how many times I've spoken 626 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: on stages to tens of thousands of people, whatever it is, 627 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: I always do. And as I got more used to that, 628 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: I just started to realize, that's what happens when I care. 629 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, that's what happens when I care. 630 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: That's what happens when I really am genuinely present with 631 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 1: that feeling of this is important, this is meaningful. And 632 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: when I sit into that and I breathe that way, 633 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: and I have my breathing practice that I do with 634 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: my mindfulness practice. It happens every time, but I already 635 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: know it's going to happen, and so now I'm not surprised. 636 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: Then it's not something new, Whereas, like you said, if 637 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: you don't label that, I label it as care. If 638 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: you don't label that with a word, now it's like, 639 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: oh no, this is happening all over again, and I 640 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: don't know what to do with it, and I don't 641 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: know why it's happening. So I think that's a really 642 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: great insight. One of the things you go into this book, 643 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: which I thought was really beautiful and really important, is 644 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: grief and loss. And of course so many people have 645 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: lost so many people. In the last couple of years. 646 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: I lost two really deep people in my life, and 647 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: not to COVID nineteen, but I couldn't see them because 648 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: I couldn't travel back. So I lost one of my 649 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: spiritual mentors who have spoken about on the podcast before, 650 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 1: to stage four brain cancer and he passed away after 651 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: many years of suffering with that. And then I lost 652 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: one of my closest friends who I lived as a 653 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: monk with he was still a monk and he passed 654 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 1: away to cancer. As well, and I couldn't go back 655 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: and see him because I can travel back to the 656 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: UK where where they were in a hospital. And so 657 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: grief is something that I think is one of the 658 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: hardest things to talk about. I even often get messages 659 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: from people saying, well, what do you say to your 660 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: friend when they've just lost someone? You know? What do 661 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: you say? Like? What do you text? Like? Okay, you 662 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: can text your condolences and your love, but what do 663 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: you say what? As a therapy beast, what is the 664 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: healthiest thing to do when your friend has lost someone? How? 665 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: How should you talk to them? What is something that 666 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: is useful, comforting and helpful at that time? I think 667 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah, and I've 668 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: done some videos on this actually because it's a really 669 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: common question. And I feel like, you know, for everybody 670 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: who's struggling with grief or something else, there are this 671 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: circle of people around them who really care and are 672 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: then struggling with the idea of getting it wrong and 673 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: saying the wrong thing. And I think a lot of 674 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: people worry so much about saying the wrong thing that 675 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: they don't say anything at all. And certainly I've done 676 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: that before myself. And you know that I think we 677 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: have to maybe get away from the idea of having 678 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: specific things that we must say or must not say, 679 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: and instead expressing being okay with expressing how we feel. 680 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: So you know, if something feels like a shock, you know, 681 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: say that, label it. And and if you're worried about 682 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: what to say or what not to say, say that too. 683 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: You know, wow, I you know, I feel so sad 684 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: for you, this is awful. How I really want to 685 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: be there for you, but I have no idea how 686 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: or what to say. And then you know, if you 687 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: go with how you feel in terms of you probably 688 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: want to know how they're doing, and so ask those 689 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: questions and maybe make those you know, if you want 690 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: that person to feel able to open up, maybe ask 691 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: open questions you know that aren't going to open questions 692 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: are questions that invite an answer that's longer than a 693 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: yes or no answer. So you know, if you ask 694 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: it are you okay? Someone will go yeah, fine. But 695 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: if you ask how are you doing, then someone is 696 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: invited to kind of talk at length and things like that. 697 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: So if you're wanting to start a conversation about that 698 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: sort of thing, then those are great ways to do that, 699 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: but really I would You know, you can kind of 700 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: turn yourself up with what's the right thing to say, 701 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: what's what's meaningful or profound and or going to change 702 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: how they feel? And essentially you're not going to change 703 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,720 Speaker 1: how they feel. What you can add to the mix 704 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: is letting them know you care for them and that 705 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: their distress matters to you and that you want to 706 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: get it right. So you know, it's okay to ask 707 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: someone how can I support you through this? What do 708 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: you need? Because often those people will have an idea 709 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: about what they need, and often it's just checking in, 710 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: isn't it, and knowing someone's there to support you. I mean, 711 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: what helpful things that people have said to you? You 712 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: know what's really interesting is that I don't think I 713 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people did say anything to me, 714 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: and not that I needed them too. I'm a I'm 715 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: an interesting person with certain things, Like I find when 716 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: I go through pain or stress or anxiety, I like 717 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: sorting it out myself. So I'm not much of a 718 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 1: I'm not much of a talk or when it comes 719 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: to certain things, apart from if I'm working with a 720 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: coach or a therapist or someone who I trust is 721 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,959 Speaker 1: helping me make sense of something. And so but I agree, 722 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with everything you just said. I 723 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: think that the biggest thing that I think you said 724 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: is the problem is when we speak to someone in pain, 725 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: whether they're in grief, whether they've just broken up, whether 726 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: they've been through a divorce, or whether they're experiencing anxiety, 727 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: the biggest problem is we're trying to say something that 728 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: we hope will change how they feel, which is not 729 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: going to happen. It's too much pressure on you, it's 730 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: too much pressure on them. It's just not going to happen. 731 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: And I remember when I first started coaching, and I'm 732 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: sure you feel the same way as a therapist. And 733 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but I know 734 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: that I used to carry that pressure around that I 735 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: had to say something profound in every meeting, and that 736 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: every connection you have with someone you have to drop 737 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: these pearls of wisdom that are going to solve their 738 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: life and be like this opening, magical doorway. And you 739 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: just realize that now you're not even listening to them 740 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: because you're working so hard to come up with this 741 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: false piece of insight that's going to help someone and 742 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: that actually, if you just sat and listened and like 743 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: you said, asked open questions and we're just present, that's 744 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: what that person needed more than ever. And I think 745 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm segueing a little bit, but even in our romantic 746 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: relationship and our friendships, the problem is we're always trying 747 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: to say things that we hope will change how people feel, 748 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: and the truth is we don't have that power. And 749 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: trying to have that power creates so much pressure and 750 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: burden on you that you feel so weighed down by 751 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: it that, like you said, you don't say anything, or 752 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: you try and say something, and then you're upset that 753 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: it didn't change how they feel. So that to me 754 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: has been the biggest takeaway from what you just said, 755 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: And hopefully I've just illuminated some of my thoughts on that. Yeah, 756 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: I think, and it's interesting actually how things work in therapy. 757 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: You know, someone might go to therapy for the first 758 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: time and imagine that they're going to take this feeling 759 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: in and the therapist will say something that will make 760 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,320 Speaker 1: it go away, and actually what you do as a 761 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: therapist is sit with them in it, and yeah, you know, 762 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: you kind of if someone's let's say someone's in a hole. 763 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: I think renee Brand did this example really well when 764 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: she did a sort of example of the difference between 765 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: sympathy and empathy. And you know, instead of kind of 766 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: standing looking down in the hole and saying, wow, that 767 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: looks terrible. In therapy, particularly, what we do is get 768 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: down in the hole with them and say, yes, this 769 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: is this is really tough. How are we going to 770 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 1: work on this together? And you know what's next, and 771 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: so you know that there's this real I think when 772 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: someone is grieving, it's okay to just be with them 773 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: through your pain, like through their pain. So there is 774 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: no way that you can remove that pain. There's no 775 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: way that you can bring the person back or make 776 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: it disappear or exit. But you underestimate the power of 777 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: simply walking alongside someone through it and allowing them to 778 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: just feel heard and cared for. Nobody really wants to 779 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 1: be told what to do. They want to feel heard. 780 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: They want to feel that they matter and how they 781 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: feel matters, and that in itself has such a profound 782 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: impact over time. But you know, building that kind of 783 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: trusting relationship with someone is huge. So yeah, take away 784 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: those expectations to be some kind of you know, healer 785 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: or you know, fix her upper and just work on 786 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: being a really good friend to someone. I want to 787 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: segue a little bit, Doctor Julie, with what we were 788 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: talking about the idea of relationships and romantic relationships and 789 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,720 Speaker 1: love and breakups, because a lot of the emotions we feel, 790 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: a lot of the feelings we experience are based on 791 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: our relationships around love and so whether it's the feeling 792 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: of losing love, never getting love, never find love, not 793 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: being lovable, not being enough, not knowing how to love like, 794 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: there is a lot of anxiety and stress around that, 795 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: as you're well aware, and as you know in our work, 796 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 1: we come across a lot when you look at that, 797 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: when you look at the feeling of I am trying 798 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: to find someone to solve the void I have within myself, 799 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: or the idea that if I find someone then I'll 800 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: be complete, if I find someone then I'll be whole. 801 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: How do you work with someone And I know that 802 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: it's case by case, and of course I'm giving a 803 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: broad question, but with that, how do you work with 804 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: someone who you notice that that is a trait that 805 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: they have, Like, how do you work with that kind 806 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: of an individual who has that kind of a trait, Well, 807 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: I guess you work with someone based on the idea 808 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: that if they haven't met that person yet, that you 809 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: can't guarantee they're going to come along. So you have 810 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:10,320 Speaker 1: to start taking responsibility for your happiness. And while actually 811 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: you know getting in relationships can be really helpful for 812 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: people's well being, and you know that the changes and 813 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: the development that you go through by being in a 814 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: relationship can be wonderful and really healing in many ways, 815 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: but you don't ever want to put the responsibility for 816 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: your own healing or your own happiness in that other 817 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: person's hands. So I would say, you know, in working 818 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: with someone who was maybe kind of dealing with that 819 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: idea that they were sort of waiting for someone to 820 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 1: come along in order for them to then be happy, 821 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: it would really be about looking at growing your life 822 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: as it is now and making that more meaningful for you, 823 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,959 Speaker 1: more purposeful based on your own values, and really looking 824 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: at that relationship with this self, So looking at how 825 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, if someone sort of feels unloved, for example, 826 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: how are they treating themselves? You know, what are they 827 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: are they not being caring and loving to themselves or 828 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: treating themselves well, and so a lot of therapy would 829 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: be looking reflecting on that relationship. I mean, there's a 830 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: lovely therapy called cognitive analytic therapy. It's SAT for short, 831 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: and that looks at how the relationship. The early relationships 832 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,399 Speaker 1: you have in life, so with parents and siblings, can 833 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: then be reflected in our relationships that we have as adults. 834 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: So you might have been in a slight. You know, 835 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: no family situation is perfect, so there will have been 836 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,360 Speaker 1: situations that weren't ideal at some point, and as a child, 837 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: you would have worked out how to get through those 838 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 1: and how to survive them psychologically with certain safety behaviors. 839 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: For example, let's say a parent was sort of inconsistent 840 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: with love. You might have learnt to be a real 841 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: people pleaser to make sure that you made sure they 842 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: felt okay so that you could feel acceptable. And then 843 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: you get into relationships as an adult, and that habit 844 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: of being that people pleaser continues, perhaps but then causes 845 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: you to do that to your own detriment. So maybe 846 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 1: you're working so hard on being astute to everybody else's 847 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: feelings and making sure that everybody else is happy, that 848 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,240 Speaker 1: actually it's making you ill because you're not looking after yourself, 849 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: for example, And those therapies can be really helpful in 850 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: looking at where did this cycle come from, you know, 851 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: and if it's something around looking for somebody out there 852 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 1: so that you can finally be happy, then you can 853 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: really break that down to where's that coming from, and 854 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: how can I fix that cycle in a different way 855 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: so that I'm not dependent on this this person coming 856 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: along and fixing it. Yeah, that's so great. So often 857 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: we're fixing the wrong end of the cycle, right We're 858 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 1: just trying to solve the current feeling, the emotion, the 859 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 1: situational problem right now. And you're like, well, actually, let's 860 00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 1: look at where the cycle started and how that mindset 861 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: got formed and how that behavior got formed, and how 862 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: that desire for validation got formed. And actually, if we 863 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 1: solve that, then we can we can see this completely differently. 864 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: And that I mean to me, that's that's really where 865 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: it all has to go. I've seen so many bad 866 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: habits in myself that I picked up years ago in 867 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: my childhood and beliefs and bad habits, and that now 868 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: you're like living them through as an adult, and you 869 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: look at yourself and you go, oh, wow, like I 870 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,360 Speaker 1: just thought this was normal, but it's it's not and 871 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: it's not healthy, and so how can I work on 872 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 1: that now? And and actually tracing it back gives you 873 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: a sense of separation from it as well, because you've got, oh, 874 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: this isn't me, this isn't mine, this isn't this isn't 875 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,360 Speaker 1: who I am, this is something I picked up along 876 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: the way, And that distance is really helpful to say 877 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: this isn't me, this is this is not all about me. 878 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean you're blaming it on someone else, but you 879 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: are saying that, let me distance from this so I 880 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: can act, so I can actually deal with it and 881 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,360 Speaker 1: work through it. When you wrote this book and you 882 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: titled it beautifully, why has nobody told me this before? 883 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: Where do you think mental health and well being going 884 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: over the next few years? You know, when I think 885 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: about things like web three, the metaverse, when I think 886 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: about obviously social media is continuing to grow. When I 887 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: look at even people like yourself, who've you know, obviously 888 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,840 Speaker 1: been able to communicate these ideas so phenomenally well through TikTok, 889 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, we both know that social media can be 890 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: an amazing tool to reach out to people, to connect 891 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: with people, to serve people, to help with people. But 892 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: when you see people navigating their mental health and well 893 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: being moving forward, what do you think are sustainable daily 894 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: practices that we need to implement in order to live 895 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,719 Speaker 1: in a world that is technologically accelerated and advanced and 896 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,480 Speaker 1: isn't turning around. It's going to sound really boring, but 897 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: a bit of self awareness, of which can come through 898 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,320 Speaker 1: things like journaling, something quite simple, like journaling experience that 899 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: allows you to stop and reflect on experience. And you know, 900 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: that's a smaller scale of a little bit of what 901 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: happens in therapy. And you know, we're talking about those 902 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,760 Speaker 1: cycles then, and the way you become able to tackle 903 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,479 Speaker 1: a cycle that you're stuck in in is by first 904 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: becoming aware of it. You know, if you if you're 905 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: not aware of what the problem is, how do you 906 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: even begin to think about solutions. And so, you know, 907 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: even with this kind of fast paced world and everything's 908 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: online and our attention as being kind of stolen from 909 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: us left, right, and center, the ability to step back 910 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,640 Speaker 1: and focus on you and your life for a moment 911 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 1: is really a victory. And and so I'm I'm a 912 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: sort of big advocate for sort of journaling and things 913 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,279 Speaker 1: like that. And even before I sort of did any 914 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,279 Speaker 1: clinical training, I look back and when I was sort 915 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: of growing up, any time that I was struggling with 916 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,360 Speaker 1: different emotions that I couldn't make sense of, or a 917 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 1: situation that was kind of troubling me, I'm like you, 918 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm not a big kind of talker, or I'm very introvert, 919 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: and I spend time alone. My thing would be write 920 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 1: it down, and if you write for long enough, you 921 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 1: can begin to sort of make more sense of a situation. 922 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: And that's really what we do in therapy when we're 923 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 1: talking about those cycles. We literally map them out, So 924 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: we write out what happens then, what happens next, what 925 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,880 Speaker 1: happens next, and then it comes background. So you literally 926 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,799 Speaker 1: get yourself a map in front of you, and by 927 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: doing that, you get this separation. So you know, in 928 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: the age of kind of social media growing or all 929 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,960 Speaker 1: the problems that might come with that, you're only able 930 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,880 Speaker 1: to tackle that and make conscious choices about what you 931 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: want for your life if you are able to step 932 00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,880 Speaker 1: back and consider the problem first. Yeah, I'm totally with 933 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: you on that, and that that feels and resonates so 934 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,040 Speaker 1: deeply for everyone who's been listening or watching today. We've 935 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: just dived into some of my favorite chapters. But as 936 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: I said before, there's chapters on motivation, emotional pain, grief, 937 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: self doubt, fear, stress, and a meaningful life. And what 938 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,040 Speaker 1: I love about the book is that every section has 939 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: a beautiful summary with things to think about, things to 940 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,239 Speaker 1: reflect on. There's, you know, like this whole section here 941 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:35,239 Speaker 1: which breaks down certain introspection and reflection questions. So, doctor Julie, 942 00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,080 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful we got to spend this time together. 943 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 1: Highly recommend everyone goes out and gets a copy of 944 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 1: Why has Nobody told me this before? Everyday Tools for 945 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,800 Speaker 1: life's ups and downs. I can't wait to meet you 946 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: and connect with you in person, and we're going to 947 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 1: do our Mint challenge or something similar. But thank you 948 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: for sharing this with us. We end every episode of 949 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 1: On Purpose with a final five. These are the fast 950 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,200 Speaker 1: five where you have to answer every question in one 951 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 1: word or one sentence maximum. So, doctor Julie Smith, are 952 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: you ready? Okay? Okay? Question number one is what is 953 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:16,320 Speaker 1: the best advice you've ever received to enjoy myself alongside anxiety? 954 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: What is the worst advice you've ever received to calm down. 955 00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,919 Speaker 1: How would you describe your current purpose touching people's lives 956 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,280 Speaker 1: in a positive way with the skills that I have, beautiful? 957 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,279 Speaker 1: Question number four, what's something you used to value that 958 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,799 Speaker 1: you don't anymore? Probably say material things. I'm not sure 959 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,400 Speaker 1: I ever really valued material things, but we'll go with 960 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: that one. Okay, great and fifth and final question. If 961 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,520 Speaker 1: you could create one habit that everyone in the world 962 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 1: had to follow and do every day, what would that 963 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 1: habit be? Journaling? Nice? Beautiful everyone, Doctor Julie Smith. If 964 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,040 Speaker 1: you're listening or watching this episode, make sure that you 965 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,400 Speaker 1: tag us both on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter, or 966 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,800 Speaker 1: on Facebook so that we can see the nuggets of 967 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,280 Speaker 1: wisdom and all of that which you learned from this episode. 968 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:06,880 Speaker 1: I want to see all the takeaways. I want to 969 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,800 Speaker 1: see what you've what's resonated with you, what stuck with you, 970 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,359 Speaker 1: what you're applying, what you're practicing. Dr Judie Smith. I'm 971 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,440 Speaker 1: so grateful for your time and energy. Thank you for 972 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,759 Speaker 1: doing this at a seven pm on a Friday night 973 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,839 Speaker 1: in England, and I am so happy that we got 974 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,320 Speaker 1: to connect finally, all the best with everything. Congrats on everything, 975 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,920 Speaker 1: and I really do look forward to meeting you. Thank 976 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,000 Speaker 1: you so much, and likewise, I'm really grateful for the 977 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: chance to chat with you. It's been really really lovely.