1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: Body times, but Joseph Scott Morgan Oscar Pistorius turned back

2
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 1: loose on society after less than a decade of being

3
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: incarcerated for the brutal homicide of his girlfriend Reevesting. I'm

4
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Dott.

5
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,120
Speaker 2: One year ago we did the story of Oscar Pistorius

6
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 2: and the crime with which he was convicted. That's because

7
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,839
Speaker 2: a month after the Bodybag's episode dropped, Pistorius was scheduled

8
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 2: to be released from prison in January of twenty twenty four,

9
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 2: so we thought it would be a good time now

10
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 2: to review the case and see what he has been

11
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 2: doing since he's been out of prison. The man was

12
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,160
Speaker 2: sentenced to thirteen plus years in prison, and he served

13
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 2: a little more than half before he was released. Now,

14
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 2: based on conditions of his parole, Pistorias is not allowed

15
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 2: to do interviews, but his lawyer, Julia Knight, told people

16
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 2: he spent the first four months out of prison just

17
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 2: getting settled into a quiet life in Pretoria where he

18
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,960
Speaker 2: is living with his uncle, Arnold Pistorius.

19
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 1: This case originates out of South Africa and it's the

20
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,360
Speaker 1: way they do things is completely different from a judicial

21
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: standpoint than the way we do things here in the state.

22
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 1: First off, did you know that in South Africa, your

23
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 1: case is not heard by jury. Your case is heard

24
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,920
Speaker 1: by the judge and it's heard by what are referred

25
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 1: to as two assessors, and they're kind of pseudo judges,

26
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, that sit in judgment of this thing, and

27
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,600
Speaker 1: it was so complicated, and they would do these long pauses,

28
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, when you're in the midst of the trial.

29
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 1: And for the most part in the American system, things

30
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: just go boom, boom boom, And maybe it would not

31
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: have been a big deal. But you're talking about Oscar Pistorius,

32
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 1: who I know that you have covered over the years.

33
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 1: You've covered him even outside of this homicide, relative to

34
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:09,799
Speaker 1: some of the things that he was involved in the

35
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 1: legal system.

36
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,360
Speaker 2: For eight or ten years, Joe, we covered the legal

37
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 2: wrangling of Oscar Pistorius. The man was nicknamed the blade

38
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 2: runner because of the prosthetic legs he used for running.

39
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 2: When he was eleven months old, both of his legs

40
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 2: were amputated halfway between his knee and ankle. He became

41
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 2: an accomplished athlete. He competed in the two thousand and

42
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,160
Speaker 2: four Paralympic Games, he ran in both non disabled sprint

43
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 2: events that would allow him, and of course competed in

44
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 2: sprint events for below knee amputees. Pistorius had to fight

45
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 2: his legal battles away from the track just to be

46
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,520
Speaker 2: allowed to compete in the non disabled sprint events. He

47
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 2: was ruled ineligible for the two thousand and eight Beijing Olympics,

48
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 2: but he continued his legal fight and was allowed to

49
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,120
Speaker 2: race in the twenty twelve Summer Olympics in London. The

50
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 2: claim was that Pistorias's artificial limbs gave him an advantage

51
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 2: over runners with natural ankles and feet. He runs with

52
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:15,080
Speaker 2: a J shaped carbon fiber prosthetic called the flex Foot Cheetah. Now,

53
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 2: he was not the first athlete to compete at both

54
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,520
Speaker 2: Paralympic Games and Olympic Games, but Pistorias competed in the

55
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,639
Speaker 2: twenty twelve Olympic Games that were held in London, so

56
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 2: he had become, at this particular moment, probably the most

57
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 2: famous athlete in the world, and at the height of

58
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,240
Speaker 2: this fame, five months after the Olympics ended, he's accused

59
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 2: of shooting and killing his twenty nine year old girlfriend, Reevesteenkamp. Joe,

60
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 2: can you explain why Oscar Pistorias had to have his

61
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 2: legs amputated below the knee when he was only eleven

62
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 2: months old.

63
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a congenital defect. He was born with

64
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,720
Speaker 1: this malformation, if you will. And here's the reality that

65
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 1: win his physician at the time, these neonatal surgeons, you know,

66
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 1: we're taking a look at him, and I'm sure that

67
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 1: they did a consult with doctors that work with people

68
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 1: who might have an opportunity to have a full life

69
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 1: relative to therapy that they could go through. They saw

70
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,599
Speaker 1: that it was an untenable situation physically for him, that

71
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 1: there's no recovery because you're absent the skeletal structure in

72
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 1: order to support your body weight, not to mention your

73
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,840
Speaker 1: ability to you're not going to participate in athletics in

74
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,719
Speaker 1: the sense that someone that was born with fully developed

75
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 1: legs and limbs might have the opportunity to. And so

76
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 1: what the decision that was made early on in his

77
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,880
Speaker 1: life is that they would amputate his feet. And I

78
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,919
Speaker 1: think that there were multiple surgeries so that at the

79
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,239
Speaker 1: end of the day, he's left literally depended upon prosthetics.

80
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: For the rest of his life.

81
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 2: But when it says that the outside of the feet

82
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 2: we're missing, are we talking like from if I draw

83
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,280
Speaker 2: a line in the middle of my foot and just

84
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 2: take out from the second toe over to the right

85
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 2: kind of thing or left, depending on what. But is

86
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,719
Speaker 2: that the outside we're talking about the bones and everything else?

87
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,679
Speaker 1: Is what the well, it's not with him. It wasn't

88
00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 1: just the bones of the feet. He was actually missing

89
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 1: his fibula in both lower legs. It's the tib fib

90
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: that you're looking at. You know, when these these bones

91
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 1: are you know, people hear about fractures and the fibula. Okay,

92
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: just so that people understand, the tibia is in the

93
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 1: lower leg. The tibia is the more robust of the

94
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,280
Speaker 1: two bones. So you have running down the midline. If

95
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,039
Speaker 1: you put your hands on your knees, okay, and you

96
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:02,279
Speaker 1: begin to move down your leg, you feel actually your tibia.

97
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 1: That's the it feels, no pun intended, it feels it

98
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 1: has like a bleed like edge on the outer facing

99
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 1: antier surface on the outer aspect. You actually have the

100
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 1: fibula or fibulae if you're talking about both, and he

101
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,760
Speaker 1: was missing these bones Dave, and so when these surgeries

102
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 1: took place on him as a child, they knew that

103
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 1: he's absent that So just think about it, if you

104
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,080
Speaker 1: and I were building a structure relative to I don't know,

105
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 1: let's just think about a bridge, and you've got these

106
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 1: pilings that support the bridge that go down into the

107
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,200
Speaker 1: surface of the water or the river, you know, whatever

108
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: you're talking about. The bridge isn't going to stand too

109
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: long if you have insufficient piling structures that are supporting this.

110
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 1: And so they felt as though, the surgeons they did

111
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,119
Speaker 1: at that point in time, that it would be better

112
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 1: to go ahead and amputate what remained this kind of

113
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 1: malformed tissue, to take it off and have him. Remember,

114
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't know how to walk at this preced and

115
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: he's going to have to adapt throughout life. And my gosh,

116
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,320
Speaker 1: he sure did adapt, didn't he. And he's totally depended

117
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,239
Speaker 1: upon prosthetics for the rest of his life.

118
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 2: The reason I wanted to be clear on this is

119
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 2: because the night Miss Steenkamp was murdered, he didn't put

120
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 2: his prosthetic legs on, right. He was actually I hate

121
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 2: to say this because I feel like I'm really being

122
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 2: mean and I'm not I'm using the term that is used.

123
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 2: He was walking on his stumps.

124
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,600
Speaker 1: This is actually a discussion that I had in studio Dave. Look,

125
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 1: I was new to TV. I had just finished covering

126
00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 1: Jody Areas and then they said we want you to

127
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 1: do Blade Runner. I was like, oh, okay, I'll do it.

128
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 2: And now so you did Jody Arias, Dylan RedWine and

129
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 2: Oscar Pis story is in your first twelve Oh yeah,

130
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:49,560
Speaker 2: being involved in the media.

131
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: Oh and that's not the only thing. I did. Trayvon

132
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 1: Martin too, and that was like that was all thrown

133
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 1: at me at one time. But this case was very

134
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: intriguing to me, and so I would go to the

135
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: studio in downtown Atlanta and you know, proceed to cover

136
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 1: the case. Well, when there's this moment in trial where

137
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,520
Speaker 1: Pistorius is told to stand in court without his prosthetics

138
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,640
Speaker 1: on and he is literally standing on what remains of

139
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 1: these legs, Well, the producer at the time at HLN

140
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: Slash CNN, they said, okay, you need to talk about

141
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 1: his stumps. And I was like, whoa, whoa, I'm not

142
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,280
Speaker 1: using that term on air. They said, no, no, he

143
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,319
Speaker 1: refers to these as his stumps. The medical community refers

144
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 1: to these as his stumps, and I'm like, you man,

145
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh my god, I'm going to get pilloried.

146
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to get people are going to say I'm cruel,

147
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm mean. And they were like, no, you're not. Go

148
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 1: ahead and plow on through it. And I got to

149
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 1: thinking about it. It's like, well, what else am I

150
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,720
Speaker 1: going to call absent legs? I don't know. So I

151
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 1: literally had to use this term. And I know people

152
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,800
Speaker 1: are hearing my voice. They're saying, Morgan, you're gutlass. While

153
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 1: look the world that we live in, we lived in

154
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,440
Speaker 1: then and even now that we live in. You know,

155
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,160
Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh my god, how is this going to

156
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 1: be perceived? But that was the reality, and he did

157
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 1: function without his prosthetics on, and that is a big

158
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 1: part of this case, Dave. When I saw him in court,

159
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: he's standing there and he is on his stumps because

160
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 1: they're trying to get a height, a height ratio relative

161
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 1: to him and this door that will come into play

162
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 1: in a bit. They're trying to understand the relationship height

163
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 1: twise with him because it's a bone of contention in

164
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 1: this case. If he had his prosthetics on, He's going

165
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 1: to be at a different height, I think with his

166
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 1: blades on, which are different than the regular prosthetics that

167
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 1: he wore. With his blades on, he comes in at

168
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:58,440
Speaker 1: almost six foot three. With his regular everyday prosthetics, it's

169
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,360
Speaker 1: like six ' two. You take these things off of

170
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,400
Speaker 1: him and he's down like a foot and a half

171
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 1: at this point in time. So there is a huge

172
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,160
Speaker 1: height differential between these two things. And one of the

173
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 1: things that we'd look at when we're examining cases. We're

174
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 1: trying to determine height relationships. We're trying to determine directionality

175
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:38,280
Speaker 1: of weapons that are fired. I gotta tell you, Dave,

176
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:44,800
Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day twenty thirteen, I don't know what my

177
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 1: wife and I were doing, but I know what Oscar

178
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 1: Pastorius and Reevesteinkamp were doing. They were fighting.

179
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,319
Speaker 2: Apparently they had only been dating ninety days. The infatuation

180
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 2: level should still be there heading into Valentine's Day with

181
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 2: somebody that you're in really infatuated with and leaning towards that,

182
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 2: saying I love you out loud and all that. That's

183
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 2: where they were. Revastein camp even send him a text

184
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 2: message saying as much, so, how did it get so bad?

185
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 2: But their relationship really had apparently been a whirlwind, very fast,

186
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:23,199
Speaker 2: but it was also filled with some very scary outbursts

187
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 2: from Oscar Pistorius towards revastein camp and again ninety days,

188
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 2: that's all we're talking about in terms of their relationship.

189
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,640
Speaker 2: I would have thought Valentine's Day three months in would

190
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 2: have been you know, sunshine, rainbows, unicorns and flowers and

191
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 2: just beautiful, sweet things. And that is not what we're

192
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 2: talking about here.

193
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,200
Speaker 1: We cover a lot of things on body bags that

194
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: all lead back to domestic disputes, and this is no different.

195
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,720
Speaker 1: And you are on the money with this, because it

196
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 1: was such a very short period of time that they

197
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: had been together. How could you have this much stain

198
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,960
Speaker 1: and an anger towards somebody based And I saw the

199
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,600
Speaker 1: crimpscene photos at the time he ripped her to shreds

200
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 1: in this bathroom.

201
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,680
Speaker 2: It's the night of Valentine's Day. It's late at night.

202
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 2: They're at their home. Their air conditioning is out.

203
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:18,720
Speaker 1: Yep.

204
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 2: Now it's February where they you know, but it's hot there.

205
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 1: Were they Yeah, they're south, they're south of the equator,

206
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,000
Speaker 1: so it's their summer essentially all.

207
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,480
Speaker 2: Right, So it's hot, and Pistoria says they went to

208
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 2: bed at ten o'clock. This is his version. By the way,

209
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,079
Speaker 2: two fans in the doorway to the balcony because the

210
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,920
Speaker 2: air conditioning wasn't working. Pistorius usually sleeps on the right

211
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 2: hand side of the bed, but now claims that due

212
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,200
Speaker 2: to a shoulder injury, he slept on the left hand

213
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 2: side of the bed bad night. His iPad prosthetic legs.

214
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,800
Speaker 2: They're on the right hand side of the bed. Steam

215
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 2: Camp's bag and sandals on the left hand side, the

216
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 2: side he claims he was sleeping on. He woke up

217
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 2: during the early morning hours of February fourteenth, twenty thirteen

218
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,079
Speaker 2: because the room was hot and humid. Steen Camp was

219
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,720
Speaker 2: also awaken after you can't sleep Baba, that was her

220
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 2: nickname for him. Pistorius gets up without his legs and

221
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,600
Speaker 2: move the fans from the balcony doorway to inside the room.

222
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 2: He pulls the curtains tight to block out a slim

223
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,160
Speaker 2: bit of light through the curtains, and he moves Stemcamp's

224
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,439
Speaker 2: jeans from the floor and was going to use them

225
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 2: to cover a small led light on an amplifier that

226
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 2: was bothering him. Now before covering the light, he claims

227
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 2: to have heard a noise of a window going up

228
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,319
Speaker 2: in the bathroom. He said he believed the noise was

229
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 2: from an intruder who was in the house, possibly via

230
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 2: a ladder to the window. Still on his stumps, Pistorius

231
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,240
Speaker 2: retrieves his gun from beneath the left side of the bed.

232
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,560
Speaker 2: He whispers to Steamcamp to call the police, and then

233
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,199
Speaker 2: move into the hallway leading to the bathroom, the gun

234
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 2: pointed in front of him. Moving down the hallway, he

235
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 2: leans against the wall for a better stability on his stumps.

236
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 2: His eyes keep moving between the bathroom door and a

237
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 2: nearby window. He yells at the person get out of

238
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 2: the house and yells to steam Camp call the police.

239
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 2: Still feeling vulnerable on his stumps, he fears someone is

240
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,720
Speaker 2: about to come out of the bathroom when he hears

241
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 2: the sound of wood moving and thought the door was opening.

242
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 2: He's overcome with fear. He fires four shots in quick

243
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 2: successions at the bathroom door. That is his story and

244
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 2: he's sticking to it.

245
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 1: Joe, he claimed that he heard people banging around in

246
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 1: the house or what he thought were people banging around

247
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 1: the house. And we've got to back up a little bit,

248
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: because you know, only if you take a look at

249
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 1: the bed, and I think everybody can do, and this

250
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: is one of the things that we look at on

251
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: crime scenes. If we have someone that was alleged to

252
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: have been in bed, the most obvious thing that we're

253
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 1: going to do is look at the bed clothes to

254
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 1: see if they're disrupted in any way. And only one

255
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: side of the bed is actually disrupted, that gives you

256
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 1: evidence that someone may have been laying there. And one

257
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: other thing, her iPad was found on the floor adjacent

258
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: to the side of the bed which she commonly slept on.

259
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 1: He goes down the hallway, he retrieves the weapon. It's

260
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 1: a nine millimeter pistol, which a semi automatic that he

261
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: keeps holstered beneath the bed. He's got a long history

262
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: with guns. As a matter of fact, a little aside

263
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 1: that people might not remember about him is that he

264
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 1: had been in a restaurant months before with some of

265
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: his buddies a public place, and he discharged a handgun

266
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 1: at their feet under the table. And how in the

267
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: world no one was hit at that particular time. I

268
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 1: have no ideas, but for the grace of God. So

269
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 1: he's got this, this this history of weapons. He goes

270
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,960
Speaker 1: to the range a lot. There's nothing wrong with that.

271
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 2: He fired a gun through a sun roof of a car, too, didn't.

272
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 1: He Yeah he did, he did it. So he's got this.

273
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: It almost seems like there's this this anger thing that

274
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 1: goes on with him, but it comes off as well

275
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,360
Speaker 1: as there's a level of brattiness to him too. And I,

276
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, and I think about the dynamic within, you know,

277
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 1: with them fighting that night, and she may have just

278
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: been simply trying to defend herself verbally and it just

279
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 1: set him off. It just set him off. And so

280
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: there's something that happened in that bedroom that night. And

281
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 1: keep in mind, a lot of the stuff that we

282
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: hear that came out of this trial, a lot of

283
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 1: it was circumstantial. And people will say, well, how is

284
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 1: that she was shot this many times? Yeah, she was

285
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 1: shot through a door. But the problem was is that

286
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: they had a real hard time in this case putting

287
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: the gun in his hand. Now he's moving down the hallway,

288
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,800
Speaker 1: she's retreated, and so folks understand, you've got the bed area,

289
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: and there's a hallway that's essentially made up of closets

290
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: where you've got these wardrobes essentially that are running down

291
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 1: a hallway, and the hallway with the wardrobes dumps into

292
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 1: the outer area of the bathroom. So you've got like

293
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 1: the shower area, there's a sink, and then you have

294
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: a separate toilet room. She had retreated into the toilet room.

295
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,200
Speaker 1: So whatever initiated in that bedroom, she fled. She felt

296
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 1: as though that she needed to retreat to a point

297
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: where she could put a barrier between him and her. Well,

298
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:21,440
Speaker 1: when she gets inside of that bathroom, he can't access her.

299
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: At this point in time, she's locked the door from

300
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,440
Speaker 1: the interior and he's outside of the door. Now here's

301
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 1: where it gets kind of murky. There is evidence that

302
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 1: he did in fact fire through this door. Now you've

303
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 1: got four rounds that have passed through the door and

304
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 1: have struck her. Now she's the initial shot, which she

305
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 1: sustained was essentially to her lower torso is actually in

306
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 1: her right hip. Another shot went wild, and you've got

307
00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 1: another shot that actually strikes the wall, ricochets, splits in two,

308
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: and you've got it passing through her hand and into

309
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: her head. So you've got multiple gunshot wounds that she

310
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 1: has sustained. And here's you know, we've talked about this

311
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 1: before on body bags, which is kind of fascinating idea.

312
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 1: It's one thing to stand toe to toe with someone

313
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,160
Speaker 1: where you have open space between you and a target,

314
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: and you shoot at that individual. It's merely passing through air.

315
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 1: But now you're talking about wildly firing through what's referred

316
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: to as an intermediate target. Say Morgan, well, what happens

317
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 1: when you fire through an intermediate target? I'm glad you

318
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,400
Speaker 1: asked that question because I'm going to tell you if

319
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: you're firing through a door and a lot of it,

320
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of us. I've got a

321
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 1: couple in my house. You've got a couple of cheap

322
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 1: doors in your house. They're essentially hollow, is what they are.

323
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,400
Speaker 1: But if you have something that is a bit more robust,

324
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: say that's solid through and through, even if it's pressed,

325
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: you're going to affect. It will affect not just the

326
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: flight of the round, but also the configuration of the round.

327
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 1: So you're talking about a soft lead projectile that passes

328
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 1: through this intermediate target and it. If it doesn't come apart,

329
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 1: the round will then become misshapen at this point in time.

330
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: And so when if it comes apart, now you're not

331
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 1: just dealing with a nine milimeter round. You might be

332
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 1: dealing with a chunk of lead that's passing through and

333
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: you've got one chunk that is, say, five millimeters, and

334
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: he got another chunk that's four millimeters. Either way, it's

335
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 1: a projectile. It's still flying through the air and it's

336
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: going to strike you. But here's the problem, and here's

337
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: where it kind of ran a foul for him. He

338
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 1: claims that he shot her after he has put his

339
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: legs on. It's all about his perspective and where he

340
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 1: was in relation to that door and her on the

341
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: other side of the door. Either way. Just turned into

342
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: an absolute bloody mess. And I don't just mean I

343
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: don't just mean the event itself, but also the scene

344
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: and the aftermath of the scene. Because man, there's that

345
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: old saying that again I attribute to my papa. He'd

346
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: say he'd look at me and he'd say, boy, you

347
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 1: could tear up an anvil. And I think that that's

348
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: to a certain degree, that's what the cops did in

349
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: this particular case.

350
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: We've had Oscar Pistorius's version of events. His is the

351
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 2: only version of events of the story, because the only

352
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 2: other person who's a witness to this is dad Rievesteenkamp.

353
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 2: She can't tell us what happened. Your job using the forensics,

354
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: and only the forensics tell me the truth of what

355
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 2: really happened. Joseph Scott Morgan, what.

356
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: Really happened is that he shot this woman through the door.

357
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: And here's another thing that we have to fill in

358
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 1: the blanks with. There was screaming that had been heard,

359
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: a woman screams that had been emanating from the home.

360
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: One of the neighbors had heard this. And I might

361
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: have my times wrong, but it seems like it was

362
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: probably about one am when this happened. Now they claimed

363
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: that they went to bed. He claims that they went

364
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: to bed at about nine or ten that evening. They

365
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: never could quite nail that down. What's really fascinating about this, Dave,

366
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: is that you know we talked about on body bags

367
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: many times, we'll talk about post mortem interval, and here's

368
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: an area that I don't really dig into a lot,

369
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: but we will in this particular case, because when they

370
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: did Reeva's autopsy, her stomach contents indicated that she probably

371
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 1: ate at about one o'clock in the morning. Because we

372
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: can we can measure, and it's not an exact science.

373
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: Please understand that, everybody within sound of my voice, all right,

374
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 1: because a lot of it's dependent upon your own physiology,

375
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: how much food you might still have in your stomach.

376
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: You know how your body handles certain types of food.

377
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: But they found vegetable matter, and she had done a

378
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: stir fry, and she also had they had done chicken

379
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: strips with that as well, And so it takes a

380
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: prescribed amount of time for the contents of your stomach

381
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: to dump into the leading the leading bit of your

382
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: small intestine, all right, And it's almost a measurable kind

383
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: of thing. What had happened was that when she died,

384
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: when she died, she still had vegetable matter and chicken

385
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: matter in her stomach. So you can think that maybe

386
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: maybe she had tested food probably within two hours of

387
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: her death.

388
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 2: Got the exact time a phone calls Joe, oh, yeah,

389
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: three nineteen. That's when Pistorius calls a neighbor three twenty.

390
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: He phones an ambulance service at three twenty one, he

391
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: calls his security at his estate. So three twenty in

392
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: the morning is when she's already gone.

393
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: Here's one other thing. The neighbor, the ear witness, had

394
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: actually stated that they had heard a pause in the shooting,

395
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: which I found very fascinating, where.

396
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: He said there were four quick shots bum bom, bom

397
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: bomb exactly.

398
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: And that's one of the areas where there's a lot

399
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: of questions was it boom boom boom? And then you wait,

400
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,959
Speaker 1: she shot in the right hip. Okay, that's where this

401
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 1: first round, you know, strikes her. At least that's what

402
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist believes. And it's a nasty wound, Okay,

403
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: don't make no mistake about this. And I think that

404
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: anybody that's ever sustained a hip injury to like a

405
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: bony prominent in that area. Can you imagine being struck

406
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: with a nine millimeter bullet that passes through a door,

407
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: So the bullet's going to be deformed anyway when it

408
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: strikes your leg or your hip. Do you think that

409
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 1: that might elicit a high pitch scream. Look, if it

410
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: were me and I was shot there, I'd be screaming like.

411
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: Eight year oldt girl.

412
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: It would be that painful, and I think that that

413
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: might be what they had heard. There was a pause

414
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: in the timing here though, and it didn't marry up,

415
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, because he's saying this over and over again.

416
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: There's also this idea that he says that he put

417
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: his legs on, retrieved the cricket bat, and began striking

418
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: the door to get access. When these they're forensic analysts

419
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: looked at this door, there was evidence that the strikes,

420
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: just like the bullet holes, were lower, to say, for instance,

421
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: than you know, a person that six two sixty three

422
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: is wielding this thing. And I had to look it up,

423
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: and I remember looking up back then. Look, dude, I'm

424
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: an old Southern boar from me. I've never held a

425
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: cricket bat in my life. I'm not saying I wouldn't

426
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: want to. It looks like it looks interesting. But this

427
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: thing weighs about three pounds and it's wood, all right,

428
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: and it's really oddly shaped. It's almost got a rectangular

429
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: shape with a small handle on one end. You can

430
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: do some damage with this thing. And if you see

431
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: the images, the door is actually made up of panels.

432
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: It looks as though are planks and he's knocked these

433
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: planks out in order to get in to access this area,

434
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: so he has to reach over access. He claims this

435
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: key that's down on the floor and then facilitates unlocking

436
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: the door. There's evidence that when when she was first

437
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: contacted in this room, that she is lying. She's falling

438
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: back into a magazine rack that was immediately adjacent to

439
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: the toilet, and her head is actually resting on the

440
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: toilet seat and she's bleeding profusely from her head. He

441
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: picks her up. He picks her up at this point

442
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: in time. Now, how do you do that if you're

443
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: on your stumps? Did he retrieve his legs at this

444
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: point in time and come back to do this. There's

445
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: blood deposition all throughout the hallway, in the bathroom and

446
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: up and down the stairwell well he takes because he's

447
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: on the second floor. He removes and cradles her body

448
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: and takes her body downstairs at this point in time,

449
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: and you can see on the crime scene images that

450
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: there's this big bloody area with a massive towels and

451
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: other debris that are laying down there that I don't

452
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,239
Speaker 1: know if he attempted to stop the bleeding with you know,

453
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: with sheets or towels or whether the case might be.

454
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: But there's this big bloody area that's there at the

455
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: landing on the first floor. But it gets it gets

456
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: really interesting here, Dave, because you know, the police actually

457
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: show up at the scene. Do you remember, can you

458
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: can you revisit and tell us again what his level

459
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: of notoriety was worldwide?

460
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: Oh buddy, it was huge. You know the biggest thing

461
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: about it was that he already had become a celebrity

462
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: in the para Olympics and you know, winning there as

463
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: as a track and field athlete, as a runner a sprinter.

464
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: He had these very unique looking prosthetic legs, which is

465
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: why he had to fight. He had to go to

466
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: court to be allowed to race against non amputees, and

467
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: they in court suggested that his blades actually gave him

468
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 2: an advantage over people that did not have prosthetic legs.

469
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 2: But that brought about worldwide fame because he won and

470
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: was allowed to compete in the Olympics, not the Paralympics,

471
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 2: you know, but the actual Olympics, and because it's such

472
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: a rare thing for an amputee to actually compete on

473
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: this worldwide stage at the best of the best. He

474
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 2: became on you know, he's on the Wheedies box. He

475
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: is that guy. Yeah, yeah, And for that time, and

476
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: at this moment in time, we're talking about six months

477
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: after the Olympics, five months after the Olympics, he is

478
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: arguably one of the most famous people in the world.

479
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: At the moment this happens, Joe.

480
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: This guy was the centerpiece of all things athletic there

481
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: so to that point, and I wanted you to re

482
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: emphasize that. Did you know that when the police showed up,

483
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: they had him stay in the kitchen away, They didn't

484
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: remove him from the scene, and you know it two

485
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: I think it was two hours later. He asked them, now,

486
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: let's think back what had happened. What had happened? He

487
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: had shot through that door, right, he asked the police. Look,

488
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: the blood on my hands is making me nauseated, making

489
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: me nauseated. And I'm not saying he doesn't have a

490
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: week stomach, because you know, during the course of his trial,

491
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: do you know he vomited in the courtroom. I remember

492
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: that vividly, So maybe he's got a week stomach. I

493
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: don't know, But the cops allowed this man to wash

494
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: his hands.

495
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: He's a worldwide hero.

496
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: I know exactly, and he is their hero. I mean

497
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: he is known. Trust me, The police in this area

498
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: know his address. They all know that he lives there.

499
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. We look for three components in gunshot residue.

500
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: We look for antimony, we look for bury him, and

501
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: we look for lead. And once you put soap to

502
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: your hands, there is a high probability. First off, it's

503
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: not a fool proof test to begin with, the GSR test.

504
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: Once you put soap to your hands, all bets are

505
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: off at that point in time. There's no guarantee. So

506
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: you're running the risk now of swabbing for gunshot residue

507
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: that might not be there. And also you're still allowing

508
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: the suspect, and he is a suspect. Not only is

509
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: he a suspect, he's a known perpetrator. Because we know

510
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: that he fired through the door. You're allowing him to

511
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: remain in the scene. And in a case like this,

512
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: I can only judge it by American standards. Guess what

513
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: he'd be at least in the back of a unit,

514
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: or he would have already been removed to headquarters where

515
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: you'd begin the process of taking a statement from him. No, no, no, no, no.

516
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: He's still on his compound within this house, which to

517
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: me is just absolutely mind blowing.

518
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: I was looking over that Joe. Oscar Vistorius had his

519
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: prosthetics on when he carried her downstairs. Now, remember we

520
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: were talking about this a few minutes ago, about what

521
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: he was doing. He has prosthetics on, he carries her downstairs.

522
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: The witness says, the friend or a security whoever, is

523
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: now there. He's not alone with her. By the time

524
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: he takes her downstairs. There are people in the house.

525
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: He's got his fingers in her mouth to keep her

526
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: airway open, and he's got a hand on her hip

527
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: to stop the bleeding. But when the police and paramedics arrived,

528
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: they immediately say she's dead. And that's when you know that.

529
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: He stays in the kitchen, and eventually they let him

530
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: go and wash up and everything else. I'm still shocked

531
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: because two hours into this, Joe, you were mentioning that.

532
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: Two hours he says, do you mind if I, you know,

533
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: wash him. Sick to my stomach, he says to the police,

534
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: you guys, take whatever pictures you want, just hurry up.

535
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: I want to get out of these clothes. I need

536
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: to get out of these bloody clothes. Take whatever pictures

537
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: you want, and get out.

538
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: It's critical in any kind of investigation, first off, that

539
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: your suspect is not in charge of your investigation. That's

540
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: one of the things dealing with high profile individuals. I've

541
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: never dealt with like a celebrity at this level in

542
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: any homicide investigation, but I have dealt with people that

543
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: perceived themselves to be in positions of power. And it's

544
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: at that point in tom where the investigators have to

545
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: take charge and you're not running you the universal you.

546
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: This individual is not running the investigation. The police are

547
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: running this investigation. But as it turned out, he was

548
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: eventually tried and convicted of Reevesteinekamp's homicide.

549
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: Can you tell me why? How she died? Joe, and

550
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: we know she's got that He fired four bullets in

551
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 2: four rounds into the bathroom, one hip shot, one split

552
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: bullet with a part of it in her head. What

553
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: damage was caused? How did she die?

554
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: Well, she eventually died, and because they were still according

555
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: to him, at least remember he's trying to keep her

556
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: airway open. There was still some kind of agonal respiration

557
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: with her at that point in time, what would have

558
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: eventually led to her death was going to be what

559
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: we referred to as exsanguination, which means she bled out.

560
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: We did the episode about Oscar Pistorius because he was

561
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: getting ready to be released from prison after serving less

562
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: than half of his sentence, and Joseph Scott Morgan wanted

563
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: to do an update for this holiday edition of the show.

564
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: We've thought why not. Oscar Pistorias has now been out

565
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: nearly a year, and since his release, he's been hidden

566
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: away at his uncle's fortified Pretoria compound. It's an upscale

567
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: think about it, a fortified compound. It's an upscale property

568
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: located in this exclusive Watercliff suburb. He has armed guards,

569
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: electronic defenses, and reportedly several attack dogs. He doesn't have

570
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: to wear an electronic monitor, but a parole officer supposedly

571
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: checks in on him at random hours of the day

572
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: or night. He's not allowed to drink alcohol or do drugs.

573
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: He can't be on social media, and he is forbidden

574
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: from contacting the Steamcamp family. A tabloid headline about Prestorius

575
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: screamed from Olympics to prison to janitor and to be

576
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: honest with you, Joe and I saw that and thought

577
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: we need to do an update over the holidays. So

578
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: that kind of brought about this show. And is it

579
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: true did he go from Olympics to prison to janitor Well,

580
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: it is somewhat accurate. He's been doing some janitorial work.

581
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: According to his parole paperwork. He has listed his vault

582
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: unteer work at NG kirk Watercloof, the Dutch Reformed church

583
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: attended by his uncle. He does line maintenance and some

584
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: janitorial work and quietly attend services there as well. Prisoner

585
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: has told The New York Post he is serious and

586
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: doesn't interact with others. I think that gets the update. Joe,

587
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: tell them who you are.

588
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body by