1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Welcomes it could happen here. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 2: I am Andrew of the future channal Andrewism, and I'm 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: here with O. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 3: Wait without the Q. Oh no, yeah, it's ties me 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 3: me along. I'm also here at apparently missing Ques instantly. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 3: I don't know. It is barbarically early for me, So. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Yay, bobarically What time is it? 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 3: Ten o'clock? 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: Well, come on, come on, come on, come on. 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 3: Look, it would have been fine if it wasn't up 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 3: till three am last night dealing with a session of 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: minor crises. 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: Down that's unfortunate. 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all right. 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: Otherwise, if it wasn't a crisis, I would have like 16 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: flexed my early bood supremacy. But you know, I have 17 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: enough since like seven sixthy I'd say something that job. 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: Now, But I just didn't want to do a ling 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: with this one. 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: And yeah, So today I wanted to shed light on 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 2: some really interesting history. I think of the anarchist movement 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: in Egypt. I've readen this book called Anarchism and Syndicalism 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: in the Colonial and Post Colonial World, and there's a 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 2: sexual by a guy named Anthony Gorman that I found 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: really interested in. I just had to share it's really 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: specific to the anarchist Egyptian anarchist history of like the 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: late nineteenth and early twentieth century, And honestide, I find 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: that whole period to be very interesting, partially because I 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: am a dreaded paradox Games fan and I enjoy my 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: little you know, like you three mil you know, like 31 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: that that period in history. Honestly, any period of history 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: prior to World War Two I find interesting. Everything World 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: War two is just like a complete to me, and 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: then everything passed World War two is like cool, but 35 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: it seemed like the World War II period itself not 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: my thing, you know, like telling me about the Phoenicians, 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 2: talking about the Phrygians, talking about the Carthaginians, But I 38 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 2: don't really care about the axis and which tank was 39 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: the superior tank and all those different things, and a 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: lot of these could and qute history buffs into not 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: to a personal one cereal of course, whatever you know. 42 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: Floats your boat. 43 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: But for me, I really like that pre WI War 44 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: TI sort of stuff. And Victorian erarors one particularly interesting 45 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: point in history, and a lot of things will happen 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: in that time. Industrial revolution was shaken up around the world, 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: Colonization was going on and the effects of that, but 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: you know, reverberate for centuries to come and the true 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: successor to the Roman Empire. In my opinion, the Ottoman 50 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: Empire was kind of going through a series of crises, 51 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: and Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire and then 52 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: brooke free of the Ottoe Empire, had its own stuff 53 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 2: going on. 54 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: So I don't want to get too much. 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: Into that whole mess, but I want to give some 56 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: context because you know, this isn't this is a history episode. 57 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: It might be a two part history episode in fact. 58 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: So let's just start back in the late nineteenth century. 59 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: So there's this foreign work in community in Egypt thanks 60 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: to Muhammad Ali no relation, and he was the ruler 61 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: of Egypt from eighteen oh five to eighteen forty nine. 62 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: This guy is all about modernizing stuff like the military, state, administration, 63 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,839 Speaker 2: and the economy. So he invited skilled folks to come 64 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: to Egypt and lend their labor. 65 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: Oh, isn't he the guy that Napoleon fought for a 66 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 3: little bit? 67 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: I think so? I think so. I mean, who didn't 68 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: Napoleon fight? 69 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: I'm sure if he could have, Napoleon would have fought 70 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: like the dinosaurs. 71 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 3: Napoleon fighting Cavement on the moon, Like. 72 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: I'm speaking of Napoleon. 73 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 2: I really don't appreciate how I mean no disrespect to 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: hawqu In Phoenix, But was Napoleon like in his twenties 75 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 2: when he rose up the ranks military and all that. Like, 76 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: I could be mistaken. I could be confused in him 77 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: with the other Napoleon. But I'm pretty sure Napoleon was 78 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: not the old man when he was making a lot 79 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: of the. 80 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: Moves he was making. Let's see again, I could be. 81 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: Wrong, Well, he was, he was more in seventeen seventeen 82 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 3: sixty nine. I'm leaving I'm leaving the maths of this 83 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 3: as an exercise for the reader. 84 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: What really through his new office. 85 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: So there's like multiple Napoleons, and so I mix up 86 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: the histories of the different Napoleons. Reasonable, But if it 87 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: wasn't that Napoleon, I know for sure one of the 88 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 2: Napoleon in question was like relatively young when he was 89 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: making some of his moves, like in his early to 90 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: mid twenties, when he's rising up the ranks kind of thing. Yeah, 91 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: but I could be entirely mistaken, and I'm sure somebody 92 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 2: will correct me, none of this is relevant to what 93 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: this episode is ever. But yeah, so Muhammad Ali again 94 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: no relation. His successors, Sayid and Ismail, took things to 95 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: the next level after he passed on with some major 96 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: infrastructure projects. They were building railways, they were expanding canals, 97 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: they were going wildly urban development, and they need a 98 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 2: bunch of skilled workers for. 99 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: A lot of that, so they brought. 100 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: In Italians, Greeks, Syrians, Dalmatians, and of course they used 101 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: their local Egyptian laborers as well. Many of those workers 102 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: came to work on the famous Suez Canal, of course, 103 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: and that required. 104 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: A massive workforce, many of whom died. 105 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: Yeahing like like canal digging. 106 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if female high immortality read professional. 107 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like you might as well dig your own 108 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: grave too, like like dig it before you start, so 109 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: they can bury your body halfway through. 110 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: Yes, it's like not gallows humor. It's like canal humor. 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: You know, it's like this canal, we're going to die 112 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: here anyway. It's kind of similar thing I could in 113 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: the Panama Canal, although in that case they brought in 114 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: a lot of Beesian and other Caribbean workers to Yeah, 115 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: you know set that up, and actually the Panama Canal 116 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: is responsible for, like what's responsible for I think a 117 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: third of the Beigian economy at one point because the 118 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: remittances they were being sent back to their families at home. 119 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: That's a whole different chapter in history. But yeah, so. 120 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: This this massive and diverse workforce is bringing, of course, 121 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: not just their labor, but ideas, because whenever you get 122 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: people together, they start talking. Egypt was already considered some 123 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: kind of a place of refuge for political exiles, so 124 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: it's not very surprising that anarchism was starting to gain 125 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: popularity around that time, particularly with the Italians in Egypt. 126 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. 127 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: That's the thing in this period is like you can 128 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 3: literally track the spread of anarchism, like by where there 129 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: are a bunch of Italians. Happens in Argentina too. It's 130 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 3: like anywhere there are Italians, anarchy spreads. 131 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: It's like it's a me anarchism. 132 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's gonna set somebody off. My apology 133 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: is to the Italian Communitee. I shouldn't have said that. 134 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, look they had they hadn't invented fascism yet. This 135 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 3: is back when the Italians were still cool. 136 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm probably gonna get a letter hopefully. 137 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: You know, there's nothing else what's attached to it. Italians 138 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: already had a history with the anarchist movement, as we know. 139 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: I mean some people would of course familiar with folks 140 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: like Erica Manchester, so there's no surprises there. Label and 141 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: political radicalism court sparks first in the Italian Worker Society 142 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: or Society Operao Italiana in eighteen sixty, which was formed 143 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: to look out for the interests of its members, and 144 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: later on in the mid eighteen seventies, you had these 145 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: veterans from Gary Baldi's campaigns, and by the way, Gary 146 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: Baldi is one of the figures responsible for the Italian unification. 147 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: And then you also had other radicals forming Thought and Action, 148 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: a political association with Massinian principles. Messini, by the way, 149 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 2: Giuseppe Muscinni was an Italian republican who advocated for liberty 150 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: and democracy and class collaboration. 151 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: And all that. 152 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: Jazz Marx once called him an everlastin old ass which is. 153 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: Just really funny, and I had to include that there. 154 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: It's just I've made for real anyway. 155 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: And then an eating seventy six more radical splinter group 156 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 2: became an official section of the First Internationale in Alexandria, 157 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: which is one of the earliest attempts to create a 158 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: worldwide association of workers and socialist groups. I don't know 159 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: if it could happen, he has ever discussed, like the 160 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: history of the International it's before but it gets messy, 161 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: Oh god, it's yeah, it gets messy, It gets katti, 162 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: it gets like we gotta spill that tea at some point. 163 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fucking wild, like, especially especially once you get 164 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 3: into like the seventeen different Fourth Internationals, and it's it's 165 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 3: a time, like the Second International is such a disaster 166 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 3: that Hosni Mubarik is part of it when he gets 167 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: overthrown like it's a it's a good time, and by 168 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: a good time, I mean an incredibly bad time. 169 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 170 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: Honestly, I just have to throw my head back and 171 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: laugh quite hotily when I hear folks talking about, you know, 172 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: why can't the left unite? You know, like where's the 173 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: leftist unity? Why can't we just come to like nah, 174 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: this has been taking place since nineteenth century. 175 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: You know. 176 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: My absolute favorite version of this is people being people 177 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: taught people being like, Ah, Marx, Marx wouldn't want there 178 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: to have been so much discord on the left. It's like, 179 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 3: have you ever read any Marx like that? That is 180 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: a man who's writing is about sixty percent yelling at 181 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: someone whose ideas he's also stolen, like by volume. Like 182 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: one of his most famous, like one of the things 183 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: that you get decided to read from Marx in college 184 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 3: is the German Ideology, which is like four hundred pages 185 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: of him being annoyed by people whose ideas are slightly 186 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: different than his. It's like like, this is this is 187 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 3: this is an ancient tradition. 188 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 2: The irony of Marx calling somebody else in Avlastian old 189 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 2: ass will not be lost on me. 190 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: And quite frankly, this idea. 191 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: Of oh Max wouldn't want this, Max wouldn't that that 192 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: really comes from that sort of messiahification of Marx. 193 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: I just coined that to him. You know, I could 194 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: send me my flowers. 195 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: In the male because essentially what people are doing is 196 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: treating Max and max ideas and Marxism. It's just like 197 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 2: Christianity two point zero. And it's kind of like how 198 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: you know, people would have been saying like, oh, Jesus 199 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 2: wouldn't want all this division in the church, except he 200 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: just replacing Jesus Marx and the chewch. 201 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: With the left. Yeah. 202 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 3: Like Marx has his famous line where he goes like 203 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 3: if he's just wanting to like the first like French Marxists, 204 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 3: and he goes, if this is Marxism, then I am 205 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: not a Marxist. Oh yeah, And then everyone proceeded to 206 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 3: ignore him but call themselves Marxists like, well, this is 207 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 3: great things have gone, this is yeah. 208 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even in their lifetimes, all of these 209 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: figures that we respect, now they didn't really like the admirers, 210 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 2: like Mala Testa was quite embarrassed that he had fans. 211 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: I yeah, no, it to be clear, to be clear 212 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 3: that is that is the appropriate we actually having fans 213 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 3: is a terrifying thing, right, flee and terror. 214 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. 215 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: Back to Alexandria, right where the First International's first official section, 216 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: one of its sections came about, and it was one 217 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: of the earliest attempts to create a world wide association 218 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: of workers and socialist groups and expanded and it formed 219 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: sections in Cairo and in Port Said and in Ismailia 220 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: or Ismailia, Ismailia, and they even had the idea of 221 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: spreading socialist propaganda and different languages like Italian and Greek 222 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: and Turkish and Arabic to reach more folks in the 223 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 2: quote unquote East. They want to take the ideas of 224 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: the First International beyond chest European communities, you know, try 225 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: and reach out to the locals. Unfortunate leave for those 226 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: familiar the history with his International, it fizzled out, So 227 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: you know, they couldn't really fully execute their plans, but 228 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: you know, they got to get them credit for trying 229 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: to make a difference beyond their own little circles. Meanwhile, 230 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: Egypt was in the midst of a deep political crisis. 231 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 2: The military was pissed because of the disastrous Egypt to 232 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: European War. The upper ranks the civil service, the army, 233 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: in the business world had become dominated by Europeans, who 234 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: were paid much more than native Egyptians. The country's inability 235 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: to service its debt from cost infrastructure projects and lavish 236 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: spending bymayel It's rule at the time led to European 237 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: control over its treasury. In eighteen seventy six, another European 238 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: treasure pressure Ismayel was to pose in eighteen seventy nine 239 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 2: replace his son Telfik, who aimed to basically satisfy each 240 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 2: of its creditors by any means necessary. And so this 241 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 2: tumultuous political climate provided both challenges and opportunities for the 242 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 2: anarchists in Egypt. A revolt led by an Egyptian officer 243 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: of the Egyptian Army, Ahmed Urabi, sorta deposed Telfik, established 244 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: a constitutional government and the British and French influence over 245 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: the country. Although he was characterized as anti foreign, Urrabi 246 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 2: received support from some foreign elements, including the very same 247 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: Italian workers in Alexandria and a lot of the anarchists 248 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: in the area. Now, as we know, anarchists are not 249 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: really advocates of nationalism, though they will fight for national 250 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: liberation causes. So anarchists and nationalists fall themselves on the 251 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: same side when it came into fighting against European imperialism 252 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: in Egypt. So when the British were causing trouble, anarchists 253 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: like Malchester teamed up with nationalists led by Urabi to 254 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: resist foreign domination. However, the British and French governments, who 255 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: were intent on protecting their investments and nationals confronted Urabi, 256 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: which resulted in British forces bombard in Alexandria and eventually 257 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: occupying the country in eighteen eighty two. Throughout the early 258 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: years of British occupation, the anarchist movement in Egypt faced 259 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: both internal divisions and factionalism. Both internal divisions and factionalism 260 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 2: similar to what was happening in other parts of the world. 261 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella 262 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: of the International during the eighteen seventies, but the defection 263 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: of a particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Costa from 264 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: Libertarian Socialism from Libertarian Socialism in eighteen seventy nine caused 265 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: a significant schism within the local movement. 266 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: Let me reread that so. 267 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella 268 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: of the International during the eighteen seventies, but the defection 269 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: of one particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Acosta from 270 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: the school of Libertarian Socialism in eighteen seventy nine caused 271 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: a significant schism within the local movement, and the movement 272 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: also suffered other interel divisions, particularly with the enduring conflict 273 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 2: between anti organizationalists and anarcho syndicalists on the role of 274 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: collective association in achieving anarchist aims quote. Until the end 275 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: of the nineteenth century, the former trend appears to have 276 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: been in the ascendency, but the growth of the labor 277 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: movement anarcho synicalists expanded their influence. Other disputes reflected the 278 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: power of personalities. Ugo Parini, a key figure staunch anti organizationalist, 279 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: was notorious for his uncompromising style and was a persistent 280 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: obstacle to create a cooperation among anarchists. Not until after 281 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: his death in nineteen oh six was a national program 282 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 2: of action agreed, which provided a solid basis for collaboration 283 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: within the Egyptian movement. Now, I didn't find any writings 284 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: by Ugo Purini himself to speak his piece, but it 285 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: sounds like he might have been a everlastin Olassim seal. 286 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: If you know, after the movement he died, they were 287 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: able to finally come together and come to agreement on something. 288 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: That means bro is like a significant obstacle to the 289 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: organizational efforts. But you know, he fought with his principles 290 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: and he died by them, so you know, some respect there. So, 291 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: until the end of nineteenth century, the anti organizationalists seem 292 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: to have had the upper hand, but with the growth 293 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: of the labor movements, anarchist syndicalists gained a lot more influence. 294 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: Tut tut, leftist disunity strikes again. The real downside of 295 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 2: this history is that the anarchist movement was still quite 296 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 2: European and quite male, and the right and nationalists movements 297 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: will not exactly helping matters. However, while the majority of 298 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: anarchists women, there was a women's section established in Cairoage 299 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: in the eighteen seventies, so there was some female participation 300 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: happening as well. You know, it's the real, real Barby 301 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: moment there, you know, real win for feminism. 302 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: The ethnic diversity. 303 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 2: Of the anarchist movement in Egypt did expand over time, though, 304 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: although Italians remained the dominant group until World War One, 305 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 2: they one attracted Greeks, Jews, Germans, and various Eastern European nationalities. 306 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: Arabi phone Egyptians also began to play a lot more 307 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: significant role, as seen in the involvement in industrial actions, 308 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: educational activities, and anarchist meetings during the early nineteen hundreds, 309 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: and the occupational backgrounds of these anarchists were just as 310 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 2: diverse as the ethnicities. Skilled artisans, including carpenters, masons, tailors, 311 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 2: and painters were among the majority. Some came from the 312 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: petit bourgeoisie like crousers and tavernonas, while others were involved 313 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: in trade or worked for merchant hoses and the movement 314 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 2: also include professionals like doctors, lawyers, and journalists. By the 315 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: late nineteenth century, the anarchistic community started to shift its 316 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: focus toward the new working class, such as cigarette workers, printers, 317 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: and employees of large utilities like tramway companies. However, despite 318 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 2: this diversity, and despite all the calls for internationalism, local 319 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 2: nationalist associations still held a lot of power because they 320 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: provided their communities with welfare services and social events and 321 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: all that. It's kind of like how immigrants in new 322 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 2: countries even today will typically like group together in enclaves 323 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: and communities to share their culture and to share their 324 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: support economic and otherwise. When in a situation where ef 325 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: we'e around you is perceived as foreign and you're seeking 326 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 2: some measure of security and safe, you know it's culture prociliation. 327 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: That is a thing that. 328 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: Immigrants tend to do, and these workers were immigrants to Egypt, 329 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: and so they kind of did the same thing. Unfortunately, 330 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 2: many of these national associations were controlled by bourgeois interests 331 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: in the Greek community. For example, the powers of the 332 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 2: bourgeois o higarchy in funding and controlling community institutions really 333 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 2: worked to keep workers in line with what the authorities wanted, 334 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: because if you stepped out of line from what this 335 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: oligarchy wanted, you know, you kind of like lose access 336 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 2: to those essential community institutions. And if you try, if 337 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: you still have like a family to take care of, 338 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: a family that you might have brought to Egypt or 339 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 2: started in Egypt, or really just struggling against meat, or 340 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 2: you know, your fish out of water and you don't 341 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 2: really know any other languages, you just know your own people. 342 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: To be isolated like that is really hazard a situation 343 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: to be in. And so that's how they kept people 344 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 2: in line. But that's in terms of the European nationalists. 345 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: There's also some rise in Egyptian nationalism. They also had 346 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: some sway originally Egyptian nationalists called signs of militant labor 347 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: as part of a European disease an alien Egyptian context, which, 348 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: by the way, I've noticed a lot of. 349 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: Right wing organizations and movements. 350 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 2: Tend to apply that pseudo anti imperial label to things, 351 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 2: so you would see it with for example, some right 352 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: wing African nationalist groups would describe the presence of homosexuality 353 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: in the country as a consequence of European imperialism. European 354 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: cludism is completely foreign to any kind of African context 355 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 2: of history or whatever, which. 356 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: Is entirely false. But they do use that sort of like. 357 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: False anti imperialism to build their power base and build 358 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: up their reactionary base, so it's a partner. You can't 359 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 2: observe a lot of these right way movements, and particularly 360 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 2: global South right way movements. Interestingly, though, the Egyptian nationalists 361 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 2: who were called in militant labor European disease, their opinions 362 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: turned around kind of quick when they saw how potent 363 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 2: it was for exercise and power. In nineteen oh nine, 364 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: the Watani Party openly backed the formation of the Manual 365 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: Trades Workers Union, which was a diverse body of Egyptian 366 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: urban workers, because they recognized the party. Finally recognized both 367 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 2: the need to constitute a broader national community and the 368 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: political potential of the workers in the struggle against British occupation. Now, 369 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: before the different nationalists came around on this, the anarcho 370 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 2: syndicalists had already begun trying to attract more Egyptian workers 371 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: into their Internationalists anarchist struggle. They knew how, they knew 372 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: that to make a real impact, they had to connect 373 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: with native Egyptian workers. But it's a thing, you know, 374 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 2: the international union structure wasn't always practical for them. Many 375 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 2: occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians, and 376 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 2: many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Europeans, 377 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 2: so forming those unions was easier said than done. But 378 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 2: that didn't stop the anarchists from trying. You know, they 379 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: saw the importance of promoting lab organization and militancy among 380 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: the Egyptian working class. And so when the cab drivers 381 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: and Alexandria went on striking nineteen oh three, the anarchists 382 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 2: were there to gas them up. The anarchists who, of 383 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: course trying to emphasize what the workers had in common, 384 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 2: the lack of boundaries that labor has, that doesn't care 385 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 2: for things like nationality, or religion or race, that all 386 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: workers had the same needs, the same struggles, and the 387 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 2: same aspirations for their well being. Of course, the nationalists 388 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 2: had their own political visions, so while anarchists emphasized international 389 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: solidarity and shared interests, nationalists were resorting to nativist of 390 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 2: peace and organizational tactics to splinter the labor movement and 391 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: break up at internationalist orientation. To give them some credit, though, 392 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 2: the Returning Party did recognize the importance of allying with 393 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: foreign workers and urged Egyptian workers during the Trams strike 394 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: of nineteen eleven to unite and strengthen yourselves and increase 395 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: your numbers through combination and through unity with the European workers, 396 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 2: your comrades, and let me get to nineteen nineteen and 397 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: the quote unquote nineteen nineteen revolution. It's kind of a 398 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 2: significant moment in Egyptian history, and an I guests were there, 399 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: so let's talk about it. In nineteen nineteen, the British 400 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: government imposed new taxes and restrictions on civil liberties, which 401 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: further fuel the discontent and united Egyptians from various social, 402 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: economic and political backgrounds. The spark that ignited. The revolution 403 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: was a deportation of Egyptian nationalist leaders Sad Saglu and 404 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 2: other political figures by the British authority for opposing their policies. Irresponse, 405 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: massive protests erupted across the country, with strikes, demonstrations, and 406 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: civil disobedience becoming widespread. Egyptians from all walks of life, 407 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: including workers, students, intellectuals, and peasants, took part in the movement. 408 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 2: They were influenced in part by the strategies and tactics 409 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,239 Speaker 2: of the syndicalist presence in the region and abroad at 410 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: the time. The revolution gained momentum and the demands of 411 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 2: the protesters became more explicit, calling for full independence, a constitution, 412 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: and an end to British rule. The British authorities initially 413 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 2: tried to suppress the protests with force, which of course 414 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: led to violent clashes and bloodshed. However, the resilience and 415 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: unity of the Egyptian people ultimately forced the British government 416 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,719 Speaker 2: to recognize the scale of the uprising and the strength 417 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: of the nationalist movement. In nineteen twenty two, the United 418 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: Kingdom unilaterally declared Egypt's independence. The British continued suit considerable 419 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 2: influence over Egyptian affairs. One could argue that the specter 420 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 2: of anarchism would raise its head again in Egypt's history, 421 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 2: particularly during the Hour of Spring in twenty eleven, when 422 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 2: anarchic tactics can be found across the Middle East and 423 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: North Africa. In the next part, I'll be talking more 424 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 2: about what anarchists would doin in Egypt in the late 425 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 2: nineteenth and the twentieth centuries. But for now, I hope 426 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: that today is anarchists in Egypt and elsewhear can keep 427 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 2: the flame of freedom burning or power to all the 428 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: people peace. Oh one, this has been Andrew. You can 429 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: follow me on eat dot com, slash Androwism and support 430 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: the patreon a picture on dot com slash sa Drew. 431 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: See y'all next time. 432 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 3: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 433 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 434 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check out on the iHeartRadio app, 435 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 436 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 3: You can find sources for It Could Happen here, updated 437 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 3: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. 438 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.