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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and eighteen,

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Speaker 1: which is first airing in early October of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Sarah is going to be interviewing doctor Lakeisha Johnson, who

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Speaker 1: is a literacy expert, and we're talking all about children

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Speaker 1: and reading. A lot of great stuff to learn there.

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Speaker 1: Can't wait to listen to that, So we thought we'd

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about fall reading as well. Sarah,

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Speaker 1: what are you reading these days in the cozy season

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Speaker 1: of fall, which I guess is not so cozy in

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Speaker 1: South Florida. No, it is not that cozy, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like I was in a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: reading slump that has just picked up. I, as you

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Speaker 1: guys might know, I kind of create a list for

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Speaker 1: like the entire year, and that was working really really

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Speaker 1: well for me until I kind of, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I hit a snag and I wasn't that interested in

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Speaker 1: a couple of books in a row. So I decided that,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously, I'm the one who gets to make

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Speaker 1: the rules, so I obliterated my list and kind of

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Speaker 1: started over and just created a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: looser structure of books that I might be interested in

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Speaker 1: reading for the fall and winter, just to loosen things

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Speaker 1: up a little, and that definitely helped. I got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of holds from the library the other day, and

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Speaker 1: I think I've read like two of them already. It

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Speaker 1: was like five days ago. Miracle Creek is the one

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Speaker 1: I just finished, just by Angie Kim, and it was

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Speaker 1: super gripping. I didn't realize it was such like a

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Speaker 1: mystery who done it kind of a situation until I

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Speaker 1: got into it. But it was one of those that,

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't figure out and it super sucked me in.

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Speaker 1: So I highly recommend that it. Also, it didn't have

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Speaker 1: fall vibes necessarily, but it was like dark and it

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Speaker 1: felt right for the season, so I think it's really

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Speaker 1: good for that. And I had just finished another kind

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Speaker 1: of creepy book. If you're looking for something a little

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Speaker 1: twisty and I don't want to say sinister, but like

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Speaker 1: kind of psychological thriller maybe, I don't know. It's called

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Speaker 1: All's Well by Mona Awad. It's quirky. I came upon

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Speaker 1: this book because I'm in the and Patchet's like Book

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Speaker 1: of the Month club that Josh got me for my birthday,

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Speaker 1: and this was one of the selections. It took me

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Speaker 1: a while to get into it, but then it was

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Speaker 1: one of those where you like start reading faster and

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Speaker 1: faster because it's gripping. So yeah, that's been my fall

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Speaker 1: reading life, a little dark. Well, fall is a good

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Speaker 1: time for dark reads, right, I mean, that's what you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be do. I have been trying to expand

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Speaker 1: my children's literature fall reading. I have one recommendation for people.

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Speaker 1: I wound up buying Fletcher and the Falling Leaves. So

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Speaker 1: Fletcher and the Falling Leaves is about a little woo, well,

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Speaker 1: we got a storm going here. You can hear the thunder,

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Speaker 1: so that will help with our dark and stormy fall

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Speaker 1: theme for this opener. Here. Fletcher and the Falling Leaves

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Speaker 1: is a really cute children's story about a little woodland

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Speaker 1: critter whose favorite tree is losing its leaves and he

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Speaker 1: is trying to keep the leaves on his tree because

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Speaker 1: he thinks the tree is sad for losing them. But

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Speaker 1: then you know, it all sort of transforms in the

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Speaker 1: end and something magical, so you can enjoy that. It's

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Speaker 1: a very wonderful, warm little book. I've also, as longtime

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Speaker 1: listeners know, reading through War and Peace this year, and

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Speaker 1: if you do ever elect to read it in sort

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Speaker 1: of a one chapter out a day fashion through the year,

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Speaker 1: which is what I'm doing, it actually times out pretty well.

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Speaker 1: So the Napoleon's invasion of Moscow happened in early September,

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Speaker 1: and that is exactly where it corresponds in the calendar

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Speaker 1: year when you read the book chapter by chapter each day.

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Speaker 1: So I've been getting Russia in early Fall for the

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Speaker 1: past month with all the descriptions of you know, life

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Speaker 1: in Russia in the fall, and it has that sort

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Speaker 1: of impending doom, darkening sense. So that's actually been really

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Speaker 1: seasonally appropriate, and I have enjoyed reading that that does

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Speaker 1: sound very fall appropriate. So fun fact in the interview

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Speaker 1: that you're about to hear, thunder comes up again. So

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Speaker 1: this can be our dark and stormy episode. I love it,

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Speaker 1: perfect for our first October episode of the season. My

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Speaker 1: kids have been devouring graphic novels from Raina Talgemeyer, like

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Speaker 1: all of them, smile guts. I don't know, there's like

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Speaker 1: a million of them. She's the same author who did

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Speaker 1: the graphic representation of the Babysitters Club, but she has

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Speaker 1: all of her own books as well, and I have

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Speaker 1: now just decided that graphic novels are like fine, like

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Speaker 1: they count as books. And so Cameron in particular for school.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure why it's just him, they go to

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Speaker 1: the same school, but I guess it's his grade level.

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Speaker 1: They have to read at least twenty to thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: each night, and we have to write down what he read.

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Speaker 1: So I've been putting down, you know, one hundred pages

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Speaker 1: of xyz graphic novel because he can get through those

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Speaker 1: a lot faster than he could get through a regular book.

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Speaker 1: But he's promised me that he's reading the words and

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Speaker 1: not just the pictures. So yeah, graphic novels or books,

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Speaker 1: I don't really understand what anyone would think otherwise. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's you know, what's the hang up? I guess

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Speaker 1: I just don't understand. No, they're totally books. I think

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Speaker 1: there was a time when he would just look at

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Speaker 1: the pictures and that would like not help him work

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Speaker 1: on his reading skills. But I think he's now graduated

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Speaker 1: to the point when he's also reading the words. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would say, you know, especially if we have any

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Speaker 1: listeners whose children are sort of on the cusp of reading,

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Speaker 1: or you know, maybe even reluctant readers, graphic novels are

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Speaker 1: awesome because they tend to be more engaging because you've

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Speaker 1: got the graphic element too. Many are very zippy in

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Speaker 1: terms of the story. That's one of the sort of

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Speaker 1: things about graphic novels that they're known for. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've been reading the Bad Kiddy series, which is another

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Speaker 1: graphic novel series. Alex and I we read those at night,

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Speaker 1: and he's really into him, and partly because Bad Kitty

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Speaker 1: is naughty, and so we get to read about the

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Speaker 1: high jinks of Bad Kitty and all the things he does,

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Speaker 1: but there's there's many of them in the in the series.

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Speaker 1: You know, bad Kitty goes to the vet, Bad Kitty's

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Speaker 1: birthday party, you know, bad Kitty goes on vacation, or

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Speaker 1: anything bad Kitty might do with the disasters that ensue

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Speaker 1: from from bad kitties bad behavior. So I highly recommend

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Speaker 1: those as well. I feel like he probably enjoyed dog

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Speaker 1: Man as well. Has he discovered that series now I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to remember if so, Alex was starting on the

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Speaker 1: Oh what do I want to say? Dariva wimpy Kid?

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Speaker 1: But I think that Diary of a Wimpy Kid, dog Men.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a couple of others in

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Speaker 1: that sort of range of they're all very good for

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Speaker 1: that sort of age. The you know, early elementary school

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Speaker 1: readers who you know have some fluency with reading, like

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Speaker 1: you can't be entirely sounding out words at that stage

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Speaker 1: for reading those graphic novels. But they are a bit

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Speaker 1: more easy to get into and certainly rewarding, as Sarah

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Speaker 1: was saying, because you can get through like fifty pages

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Speaker 1: relatively quickly, and so sometimes for kids who might be

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Speaker 1: a little bit like what I don't like the fact

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Speaker 1: that it takes me a week to get through a book. Well,

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Speaker 1: then this is a sort of easy way to reward

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Speaker 1: yourself for your reading, to see the progress a little

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Speaker 1: bit quicker. Yes, And even my nine year old, who

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Speaker 1: clearly can read above that level, she will enjoy tearing

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Speaker 1: through a number of those in one afternoon. And I

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Speaker 1: think back to my own childhood when I would read

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Speaker 1: Babysitters Clubs when I'm sure I was capable of more.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, it doesn't matter, just the habit

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Speaker 1: of reading. And I agree, it doesn't really matter what

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Speaker 1: it is as long as it's happening. Yeah, So Michael

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Speaker 1: and Ruth have been reading through the Nancy Drew books,

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Speaker 1: the old school ones, right, like the ones that came

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Speaker 1: out nineteen forty fifty whatever, And so I think that's

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Speaker 1: been good for there some interesting historical things that you're like, wait, what,

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Speaker 1: So they kind of have their their nighttime reading with that.

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Speaker 1: I'll just throw out there a little self promotional plug

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Speaker 1: if any listeners are looking for a novel that has

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Speaker 1: a long fall setting. My book The Courtland Boys. The

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Speaker 1: prologue is set in early March. That's one thing. But

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Speaker 1: then the first half of the novel is set in

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Speaker 1: October in a small town in the mountains in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: so lots of fall scenery, the coming cold, the darkness,

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Speaker 1: descending bit of a mystery with that, So if anyone

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Speaker 1: wanted to check that out, I would highly appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: I greatly enjoy the Courland Boys, So yes, I can

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Speaker 1: vouch that's nice of you. Do you have anything else

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Speaker 1: that's on your reading list for the next few weeks

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Speaker 1: that you're excited about? Well, the other two holds I

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Speaker 1: have from the library right now are The Comfort Book

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Speaker 1: by Matt Haig, which I kind of start it's more

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Speaker 1: like quotes and like nonfiction, but it's actually a really

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Speaker 1: nice he had severe depression and then the things that

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Speaker 1: kind of helped him come out of it. And then

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Speaker 1: I have another creepy one called Hour of the Witch

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Speaker 1: by Chris Bojollian, which I believe is set in like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, the sixteen hundreds or something and might

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Speaker 1: be about I'm not exactly sure. I'll let you know,

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Speaker 1: but it sounds very spooky and creepy and fall. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One I'm actually reading right now that is very sort

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Speaker 1: of easy reading, and they always are but you feel

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Speaker 1: like you learn a little something about a different part

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Speaker 1: of the world. Mary Roach has a new book out

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Speaker 1: that's called Fuzz, which the subtitle I think is something

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Speaker 1: like when Animals break the Law and it's I don't

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Speaker 1: know why she decided to call it fuzz. I guess

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Speaker 1: it's the on tundra that you know, the fuzz of

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Speaker 1: the animal, but the fuzz like when the police come

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Speaker 1: in or something. But I'm not sure it's my favorite

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Speaker 1: title ever, but it's you know, it's it's pretty standard

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Speaker 1: Mary wrote writing about animal human encounters. But you know,

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Speaker 1: how do you deal with it? Because you know that

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Speaker 1: tends not to turn out. You know, humans are very

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Speaker 1: scared of many big animal encounters, but they tend to

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Speaker 1: turn out worse for the animals involved than the humans,

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Speaker 1: like ninety nine percent of the time. When you know,

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Speaker 1: the local animal control, fish and wildlife whatever has to

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Speaker 1: has to deal with it. And so it's far better

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Speaker 1: if people can prevent it. But of course many people don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so she has these scenes in Aspen where

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Speaker 1: clearly the high end restaurants are just like not taking

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Speaker 1: it seriously that they need to put their trash in

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Speaker 1: a place where the bears can't get, and so the

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Speaker 1: bears are like loving it because they're getting five star

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Speaker 1: cuisine and the alleys of aspen. But you know, they

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Speaker 1: and the homeowners are planting you know, the chokeberry and

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Speaker 1: other such things that are basically bear bait because it

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Speaker 1: looks pretty. But there needs to be such like education

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Speaker 1: of like don't do that, because then once animals are

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Speaker 1: in the homes and figure out how to open French

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Speaker 1: doors and get into houses like they they basically have

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Speaker 1: to be put down because they'll keep doing it. But then,

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Speaker 1: of course that's really sad because this is you know,

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Speaker 1: a wild animal that you know, if they had been

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Speaker 1: able to keep them separate from humans, it wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: gone that way. But you know, there's a whole bit

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Speaker 1: about elephants in India and the encounters there which they

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Speaker 1: have at actually a different policy of not putting down

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Speaker 1: the elephants. So how do you then deal with that

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Speaker 1: when that's the reality? So far, pretty interesting and easy reading,

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Speaker 1: so not going to tax you if you look for

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Speaker 1: sort of nonfiction reading that isn't going to ask too

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Speaker 1: much of you. I was finding that this is this

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Speaker 1: is a good before bed sort of reading. No, that

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Speaker 1: totally sounds like a fun read. I think one of

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Speaker 1: my parents or my sister actually texted me that recommendation.

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Speaker 1: So you know, when you hear about a book from

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Speaker 1: two different sources, you should probably just read it. Yep, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I think. All right, well, let's go ahead and take

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Speaker 1: our ad break and then we'll be right back. Well,

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to be here with doctor Lakeisha Johnson.

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Speaker 1: She is a PhD and an assistant professor at the

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Speaker 1: School of Communications, Science and Disorders at Florida State University. Welcome,

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Speaker 1: doctor Johnson. Thank you so much for having me. Please

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Speaker 1: do call me Lakeisha. Okay, perfect, Well, I can use

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Speaker 1: them interchangeably, but no, we're so excited to have you

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Speaker 1: on the show. We love to talk about reading and

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Speaker 1: books and kids, but we only know it from like

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Speaker 1: that amateur perspective of our own experiences, so we're very

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Speaker 1: excited to bring in an actual expert on the field.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what

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Speaker 1: you do? Sure? So, as you said, I'm a professor

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Speaker 1: at Florida State University and also a reading researcher, So

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Speaker 1: everything that I do is related to language literacy and

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Speaker 1: that it's development in young children. So I'm extremely interested,

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Speaker 1: did though in this development in African American children and

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Speaker 1: other children from at risk backgrounds, which kind of sparked

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Speaker 1: my interests and love for diverse children's books. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited to talk with your listeners and you more

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Speaker 1: with you know, all the things related to language, literacy

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Speaker 1: and reading. I'm so interested even before we delve into that.

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Speaker 1: How do you study that. Do you actually observe children

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Speaker 1: learning to read? Or do you do it more indirectly

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Speaker 1: looking at assessments. How does that work? We do a

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Speaker 1: little bit of both, so it really just depends on

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Speaker 1: the project. We do some things where there are lots

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Speaker 1: of assessments that are taking place, where we're looking at,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether there are differences in terms of curriculums

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Speaker 1: that maybe you may be used by teachers, whether one

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Speaker 1: is better than another, which gives you the biggest bang

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Speaker 1: for your book. Right now, we are training lots and

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Speaker 1: lots of educators, practitioners like myself, speech language pathologists, all

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Speaker 1: about the science of reading, which is kind of a

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Speaker 1: buzzword for a collection of evidence based around how kids

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Speaker 1: best learn how to read, why some children don't learn

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Speaker 1: how to read or may have some struggles with learning

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Speaker 1: how to read, and then some of the differences that

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Speaker 1: we may see based on cultural backgrounds or even linguistic differences. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm so interested to hear more. I mean, I'll say,

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Speaker 1: as a parent, I have one child who learned to

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Speaker 1: read fairly painlessly and another child who is taking a

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Speaker 1: lot longer and taking a lot more effort. And I don't,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to know what's different, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm interested in, like what approaches seem to work,

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Speaker 1: or like, sure you know what the science is showing lately. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's really important for parents to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind is that we know that children learn

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Speaker 1: language from their environment. Right, it's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: people are kind of familiar with that. Nature versus nurture

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Speaker 1: kind of a phrase that we've heard very often, especially

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Speaker 1: if you were in like psychology or anything in school,

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Speaker 1: you kind of heard nature versus nurture. Which is it?

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Speaker 1: But it's a little bit of both. So of course

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Speaker 1: there's some genetics around how children learn language, but then

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Speaker 1: there's also nurture, So what happens in the environment. So

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Speaker 1: based on the environment, that's the language that we learn.

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Speaker 1: So if are speaking Spanish, that's the language that they learn.

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Speaker 1: If they're English speakers, if they're bilingual. Right, whatever is

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Speaker 1: happening in the environment is the language they learn. Reading

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Speaker 1: is not like that. Kids don't just learn how to read.

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Speaker 1: It has to be taught. Hence, while we call it

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Speaker 1: the science of reading. So there may be some children

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Speaker 1: who may just need something extra. But what we do

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Speaker 1: know is that all children can learn how to read,

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Speaker 1: even children with disabilities, children who are at risk for disabilities,

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Speaker 1: so those growing up from impoverished backgrounds, or children who

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Speaker 1: may have you know, all these other kind of factors.

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Speaker 1: Everybody can learn how to read. And what the research

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Speaker 1: shows is that with very systematic and explicit training, all

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Speaker 1: kids can learn how to read. Very interesting, and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like, at least from what I've read more recently,

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Speaker 1: like the phonics approach. There were some other Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: are some other things that came into fashion, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like the phonics approach has reigned supreme. It has

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Speaker 1: definitely reigned supreme. So, yes, you're referring to the reading wars,

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Speaker 1: which has gone back and forth, back and forth. It's

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Speaker 1: re emerged again as of late, but we know that

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Speaker 1: phonics is the best way to teach kids how to read.

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Speaker 1: So being able to learn those letters and sounds letter

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Speaker 1: sound correspondence is what we call it, so b is

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Speaker 1: always going to make the book sound. That's phonics right,

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Speaker 1: and being able to decode. The other side of that

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Speaker 1: is the balanced approach, or the whole balance literacy or

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Speaker 1: whole language approach, which research has not shown to be

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Speaker 1: as effective. So while kids of course need that comprehension part,

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Speaker 1: which is I love books and storybooks, and that's where

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Speaker 1: all that good comprehension, we have to still teach kids

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Speaker 1: explicitly letter sound correspondence and decoding for them to be good,

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Speaker 1: strong readers, because we don't want them guessing and going

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Speaker 1: as they are reading through the pages right and just

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Speaker 1: looking at the pictures for context and clues. We want

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Speaker 1: them to use the strategies that they've been taught around

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Speaker 1: decoding to figure out those new words. That makes them

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Speaker 1: a stronger reader in the future. So you are also

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Speaker 1: a mother, correct how old is your You have one child?

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Speaker 1: Or I have well, I have one daughter and then

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Speaker 1: another bonus daughter, so I have one biological daughter that

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Speaker 1: I first and then a bonus daughter. So Maya is

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Speaker 1: six years old and then my bonus daughter is sixteen,

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Speaker 1: So huge gap. But you know, I like to say

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Speaker 1: they have their they're very similar ages. They both have

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Speaker 1: tantrums of very similar types. Right, and I know you

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Speaker 1: have a relatively you have three kids yourself, right, yes, three, seven,

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Speaker 1: and nine, so no sixteen year olds yet I'm bracing myself.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's kind of like I'm foreshadowing

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Speaker 1: what I know will be happening with Maya. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's a She just turned six over the summer in July,

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Speaker 1: so she's a first grader, which puts her a young

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Speaker 1: six year old for first grade because all of her

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Speaker 1: friends are turning seven already. So yeah, she is young.

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Speaker 1: So tell me. That's what I'm so interested in. What

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Speaker 1: kind of behaviors? Tell me take me through the lifespan

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Speaker 1: of like what you did. Clearly you have like the

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Speaker 1: most knowledge of this to encourage healthy reading behavior, reading acquisition,

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Speaker 1: Like what can we do at each of the stages?

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Speaker 1: And what did you do with Maya? Sure, this is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite topics. I teach lots of courses

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Speaker 1: on normal language acquisition, all the things that happen. First,

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Speaker 1: it's always important that even before the child is born.

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Speaker 1: You know, when mom is pregnant, she's reading to baby. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's super super impactful because it's just so helpful. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the things we know. Babies can respond to

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Speaker 1: their mother's voices after they're born because they've heard them

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Speaker 1: in the womb. Right, So talking to baby before baby's born,

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Speaker 1: family members, dads, whoever, adults that are around, even siblings,

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Speaker 1: talking to baby is super important. So then the next thing,

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Speaker 1: once baby is born, it's super important to continue talking.

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Speaker 1: So while we talk a lot about books, of course

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Speaker 1: books are important, but it's even more important the language

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Speaker 1: you use around the books. So it's not just reading

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Speaker 1: you know what's on the page, because when you have

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Speaker 1: an infant, they don't care about what's on page anyway.

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Speaker 1: It's more of your voice, building those bonds and those

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Speaker 1: caregiver kind of attachments. And so when you're reading with

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Speaker 1: an infant, you know under the age of one, you

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that you're doing things like drawing

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Speaker 1: their attention to certain pages, You're following their direction or

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Speaker 1: their lead, you're pointing out things. So with infants, we

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Speaker 1: usually have books that are like crinkly, right, They have

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Speaker 1: a lot of texture, They have mirrors in them, so

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Speaker 1: the baby can look at themselves. You know all of

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Speaker 1: this stuff as a physician, but you know, we have

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Speaker 1: those things where they can look at themselves. Very often, books,

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Speaker 1: those board books or even soft books are in stark colors,

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Speaker 1: so they're black and white and maybe a little pop

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Speaker 1: of red, because we know that their vision is developing

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Speaker 1: and they're not seeing a lot of those colors yet.

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Speaker 1: So it's really important to do those things. But also

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Speaker 1: it's important for I always tell parents and even educators

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Speaker 1: that strong language foundations build to strong readers. So it's

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Speaker 1: so that in the first few years of life we're

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Speaker 1: doing all of those things around language. So during your

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Speaker 1: diapering routines, feeding setting routines, like nighttime routines, bath routines,

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Speaker 1: talk as much as possible. We call it getting chatty.

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Speaker 1: Talk about what you're doing right, talk about what baby

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Speaker 1: is doing. And it may sound a little crazy when

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Speaker 1: you do it, but it is so helpful because it's

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Speaker 1: helping them learn that language of the environment and so

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Speaker 1: our routines. When it comes to reading, I'm an avid

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Speaker 1: reader myself, and so Maya has has kind of picked

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Speaker 1: up on that and I absolutely love it. It warms

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Speaker 1: my heart. But even when she was much younger, we

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Speaker 1: did multiple visits to the library. She got her first

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Speaker 1: library card probably at age three. We were living in Maryland,

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Speaker 1: and that was super exciting for her. And they had

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Speaker 1: a program one Thousand Books Before Kindergarten, which is an

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Speaker 1: amazing program that even all listeners can go to the

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Speaker 1: one thousand Books before k their website if their library

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Speaker 1: doesn't offer it, but it's the completely free program where

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Speaker 1: you're just working your best to read as many books

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Speaker 1: as possible before kindergarten because they know that all of

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Speaker 1: that sets kids up for strong school readiness skills. So

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Speaker 1: it is actually a thousand books before kindergarten and people

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Speaker 1: track it like yes, yes, they have trackers. They have

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Speaker 1: apps so you can track the number of books that

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Speaker 1: you read. At our library when we were living in Maryland,

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Speaker 1: every one hundred books you could go and the child

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Speaker 1: would get like a little sticker or some kind of

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Speaker 1: little token, and it was so cute. They would move

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Speaker 1: their fish across the sea, so every part of the

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Speaker 1: sea was one hundred more books, and then at a

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Speaker 1: thousand they had this huge little celebration in the library.

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Speaker 1: The child gets the ring of bell. They get these

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Speaker 1: gifts and prizes when they make it to a thousand books.

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Speaker 1: So if you think about it, if you start very early,

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Speaker 1: it's very feasible to read a thousand books before the

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Speaker 1: child turns five, because if you read at least one

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Speaker 1: book a day, you can get there in a few years.

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Speaker 1: And if you're like us, you sometimes read several books

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Speaker 1: a day because they may ask you to read that

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Speaker 1: same book over and over and over. I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: probably have had that experience where you see the same

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Speaker 1: book so many times you can recite the lyrics. It's

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Speaker 1: important for parents of young children to know it is

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Speaker 1: perfectly fine to read that same book over and over, right,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes we're like, why are we doing this again?

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Speaker 1: But it is so good and it's for many reasons. One,

429
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 1: it helps a child with vocabulary, right, so they're learning

430
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: all these new words. Every time you read it. You

431
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: could ask different questions. It's also helping them kind of

432
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: pick up on the inflection, like the ups and downs

433
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: in your voice. So then when they read the book themselves,

434
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: you know they kind of are you're modeling for them.

435
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: What it's like to read, what it's like to turn pages,

436
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: and so if they pick up on, you know, if

437
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: they're repetitive lines like brown bear, brown bear, they pick

438
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: up on that and they can fill in the blank.

439
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: So it's really really important. So even though it may

440
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: be painful sometimes to read that same book over and

441
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: over and over again, it's really really good for their

442
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: language skills. I feel like it depends on the book.

443
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: Like certain books I don't mind really reading a million times,

444
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: and others might have like a really awkward cadence and

445
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: you're like, no, no no, not again, we'll see the good thing.

446
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: What I do when that happens, When maya stuck on

447
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: a book that I am completely over, I try to

448
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: slide another one in on the same topic, right, So

449
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 1: I then like, okay, well look I found another book

450
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: about animals. Oh, I found another unicorn one, right, And

451
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: I slide that one in and kind of make sure

452
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: I can get rid of and maybe then hide it.

453
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: Because that's the other part too. It's really really great.

454
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: I tell both parents and educators to have kind of

455
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: two bookshelves at home, right, so a place where you

456
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: have your books. It can be one that's themed or thematic.

457
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: So right now, of course we're just entering falls. So

458
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: you may have a couple of books from the library

459
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: that are on fall themes, but then those so that's

460
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: kind of your rotating library. But then you also have

461
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: your books that are kind of stable, a few favorites,

462
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: a few new ones that you want to introduce them to,

463
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: so that way you can also swap out some of

464
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: those ones that they always go to and you're introducing

465
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: them to new topics. That is such a good idea.

466
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: I mean, we definitely have almost all of our books

467
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: kind of out, but you're so right, it tends to

468
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: lend itself to like the same ones the same and

469
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if a few of them were a little

470
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: bit less accessible and we made more effort. I love

471
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: the idea of like making sure you have a little

472
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: seasonal shelf going on. Yeah, and it doesn't even have

473
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: to be a shelf. It could be a basket like

474
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: I grab like the little bins or baskets from Dollar

475
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: Tree or Target, and then that becomes and you know,

476
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: we add some little festive kind of things to it,

477
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: but that becomes the book bin for the month or

478
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: for the season or whatever it is. The specific topic,

479
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: so then she knows. Oh, and we also keep our

480
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: library books separate. So we keep our library books separate

481
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: from everything else, so we know that those are the

482
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: ones that have to go back. We treat them very

483
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: differently than our own books. Right. So I love the

484
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: idea of multiple either locations or shew for books. So

485
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: Maya's getting to the age where there might be two

486
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: types of books, right, books that she's not ready to

487
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: read on her own. Although I have this feeling you

488
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: might have been early precocious reader on your hands somehow,

489
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: and then books that are more like completely her level.

490
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: How did you start working them in? And what if

491
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: any approach did you use in actually teaching Maya to read?

492
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: Or did you leave that mostly to her educators? You

493
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: know what I always say, I was more and of

494
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: course I'm an SOP. I'm speech language pathologist, so I

495
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: was all focused on language and reading. Math went by

496
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: the wayside. So as she's now in first grade, I'm

497
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: like shifting like, oh, she's a super reader. I need

498
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: to focus on making sure. Oh and especially with you

499
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: know the way that math has taught me relearning some

500
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: of these things too. So I always say parents focus

501
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: on both do a little bit of both. But for reading,

502
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: of course, he is a very precocious reader. What we

503
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: have done as she was growing was just reading activities

504
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: really fun. So those are we call them emergent literacy activities.

505
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: So things like rhyming, phonological awareness. This is the idea

506
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: of playing with sounds. So if you're in the grocery

507
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: store and we're gonna pick a letter, I asked her

508
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: to randomly choose the letter, and then when we're going

509
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: through the store, we're gonna find things that start with

510
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: that letter or that sound. Right. Being able to take

511
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: a word like cupcake and separate them. So what's cup

512
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: say cupcake? Now say it without cup being able to

513
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: tay cake. That's a phonological skill. That's being able to

514
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 1: play with sounds. Those are the things are that are

515
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 1: the foundation for later good reading skills. We'd also do

516
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: things like I'd hide letters, like when we're in Maryland,

517
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: I'd hide them in the snow, because at some point

518
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: you get tired of going outside in the snow, so

519
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: you bring it in. But you know, you take the

520
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: little blocks, you hide them, get some songs or something.

521
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: She has to dig through and find them. And then

522
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: we think of things that go with it, even easter eggs.

523
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm pretty sure a lot of moms are

524
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: out there, like you're sick of it after Easter goes

525
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: and you're stepping on eggs all over. I would hide

526
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: like little plastic letters in the eggs after all the

527
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: candy and stickers and that kind of stuff is done,

528
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: and then when she would randomly find them, we'd play

529
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: a game about that letter. So let's think of as

530
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: many words as we can, or what color is that egg?

531
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: Let's think of things that are that. So I made

532
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: those early learning kinds of skills as fun as possible.

533
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: If you're also like us, you order a lot from

534
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: Amazon and Target. I would take the bubble wrappers, like

535
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: the packing bubbles, and use a sharpie right on them

536
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: so you could match uppercase and lowercase letters, and then

537
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: she gets to pop them with a pencil, right. So

538
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: things that just make the things that we know are

539
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: building those language skills and those early literacy skills fun.

540
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: We just made it games. We take a beach ball

541
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: and you know, we'd toss you know, the ball around

542
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: and everybody would have to come up with different words

543
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: or sound words that had that same sound in the

544
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: middle or the end. So whatever you can do to

545
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: make those emergent things as fun as possible, that's what

546
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: we did at home. So in terms of transitioning from

547
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: more of the me reading to her and her reading,

548
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: because she's she is a relatively strong reader, so she

549
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: can read picture books by herself, of course, and we're

550
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: in she can do early readers. What we've done to

551
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: transition into some of those early chapter books is we

552
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: read them together. So usually it will be during either

553
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: nighttime or our family reading time, because that's the other

554
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: good thing is we try to model reading right, that

555
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: reading is important. So whether that's a magazine, whether it's

556
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, something that came in the middle or whatever,

557
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, everybody will take a good ten minutes or so,

558
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: and you just have that reading time. And she has

559
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: to read herself. Even before she was a true reader,

560
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: so whether that was flipping through the pictures and telling

561
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: her own stories, she had to have independent time with

562
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: books just to kind of model that reading is important.

563
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: So for chapter books that we're starting to do now,

564
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: every so often we read those together. So I maybe

565
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: doing a lot of reading with her and then she

566
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: may take a paragraph or two paragraphs in some of

567
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: those books, but it's really cool because she likes to

568
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: try to get to the next chapter, so I can

569
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: see that, you know, she's picking up on Okay, we

570
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: can't stop reading until we get to the end of

571
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: this chapter. So that's kind of what we've been doing

572
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: lately to kind of progress from picture books to chapter books.

573
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: I love it when is family reading time. Does that

574
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: typically like an afternoon afternoon afternoon. It's been a bit

575
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: of a struggle as we this school year, just with

576
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: I think everybody the schedules are. I was just listening

577
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: to one of your recent episodes about what a typical

578
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: day is like, and no day has been typical. Both

579
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: my husband and I are professors, so between you know,

580
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: our things with our own students and dealing with you know,

581
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: all of the pandemic related things at the university level

582
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: and then school level, we try to make home as

583
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: easy as possible. And now first graders have homework, so

584
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: that's usually around the time, so it's in the afternoon

585
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: before she gets to have her complete free time and

586
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: do whatever she wants to for an hour, we have

587
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: that family reading time with whatever parent is at home

588
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: and then usually your bedtime reading with her. Is that

589
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: more you reading to her or is that also a combo?

590
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: It varies, but most times it's one of us reading

591
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: to her and we have our nighttime routine. Has been

592
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: the same almost her entire life, from once we go up,

593
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: we don't come back down, you know, and she has

594
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: I am very blessed she's been a good sleeper her

595
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: entire life. Maya goes to bed at seven fifteen. So,

596
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: like I said, you know, well, they all have their struggles,

597
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: all kids have their problems, but thankfully sleeping has not

598
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: been one of ours. So she goes to bed between

599
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: seven fifteen and seven thirty most night, almost every night,

600
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: unless you know it's Friday and we're having a movie night.

601
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: But after she gets in the shower or takes a bath,

602
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: we read and then she listens to thunder. She likes

603
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: nature sound, specifically thunder, So we tuck in and then

604
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: she doesn't get to come back down. You know, she

605
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: uses the bathroom at all, but she doesn't get to

606
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: come back down. There's no more water, no extra hugs,

607
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: like this is our routine, so so she's kind of

608
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: used to it now. That is so funny to me

609
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: that she's comforted by a thunder soundtrack. And you know,

610
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: it's so crazy because my husband randomly figured it out

611
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: when she was maybe she was an infant, she was

612
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: maybe three or four months old. It was a storm happening,

613
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: and my husband's a meteorologist, so he also likes to

614
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: sometimes sit outside when you know there's there's weather occurring.

615
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: So he realized that that calmed her, and ever since

616
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: then we've played thunderstorms and it's so funny. Even maybe

617
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 1: two weeks ago or so, there was a huge storm

618
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: here and it was maybe about six thirty and you know,

619
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: of course it got kind of dark, and she's like, Mommy,

620
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: I know it's not my bedtime, but I'm getting really

621
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: sleepy because it's thundered outside. So even like actual storms

622
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: now will make her sleepy if it's late enough in

623
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: the day. I feel like the link to her dad

624
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: being a meteorologist is got to be part of that

625
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: is too funny. That is really really Gooeah. All right,

626
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: let's move on to books selection a little bit, and

627
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: this leads us to talk a little bit about your

628
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: project of Maya's booknook. So give our listeners a little

629
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: bit of an idea about what that is. Okay. So

630
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 1: Maya's Booknook is a website that I started back in

631
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen that focuses on just providing strong language and

632
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: literacy foundations through diverse children's books. So, like I said,

633
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: I've always been an avid reader, Maya has always kind

634
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: of been surrounded by books. I have videos that I

635
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: show my class from like probably she was one and up,

636
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: just of those different stages of reading development. And Maya's

637
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: Booknuk got started because I was that's just on my

638
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: personal Instagram page and social media, I would share books

639
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: by African American authors and a lot of my friends

640
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: would say, where are you find all of these books?

641
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: I don't see them in the store. So this was

642
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: maybe in twenty seventeen. So for Black History Month, I said,

643
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: all right, every day I'm going to share a book

644
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: by a different black author, and then I did it

645
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: again in twenty eighteen and friends kept saying, you really

646
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 1: need to start a website. So in twenty eighteen, Maya's

647
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: Booknook was formed, and the website really just focuses on

648
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: highlighting the voices of diverse populations. So it's not just

649
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: race and ethnicity. It's you know, differently able children. I'm

650
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: a speech lungest pathologists. Of course I'm going to look

651
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: for books for children with cochlear implants, children with different disabilities,

652
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. So also different cultures, religions, you know, bending gender, stereotypes.

653
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: All of those things are really really important for us

654
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: because I've just noticed that it has allowed Maya to

655
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: learn so much about so many different things, way more

656
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: than I knew as a child her age, right, Like

657
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: she will see someone with a hey job on and

658
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: automatically connected to a book we read Mommy's Kamar, right,

659
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: or you know, it's all of those things. So when

660
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: selecting books, we have a few things that we really

661
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: really like to do. And I also teach this to

662
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: my students when there are you know, these students who

663
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: are will become speech language pathologists or early childhood educators.

664
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: I call it my must haves. So it's an acronym

665
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: the must stands, so the M is multicultural. Right, So

666
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: I always ensure that the books feature diverse characters. And

667
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: it's not just kind of you know, illustrations, just because

668
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: it's actual reasoning. It's authentic, right, it's from authors from

669
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: those backgrounds. It's stories that are meant to, you know,

670
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: kind of dig in deeply to some of those some

671
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: of those differences and similarities across people, right, So always

672
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: ensuring that it's multicultural. And even as a speech language pathologist,

673
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: the schools that I've always worked in previously were always

674
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: Title one schools where there were students where about ninety

675
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: percent of students were on free and reduced lunch, so

676
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: in ninety nine percent of them were children of color.

677
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: So I always wanted to ensure that my books and

678
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: what we did in therapy reflected the students sitting before me.

679
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: So it's super important for that to be the same,

680
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, at home. And there's this quote by rooting

681
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: Them's Bishop. She is a professor at Ohio State and

682
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: they call her the mother of multiculture, multicultural literature, and

683
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: it talks about books, windows and mirrors, haven't I don't

684
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: have it pulled up, but it's an amazing quote about

685
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: how books can be mirrors of course for children to

686
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: see themselves, right, so what's reflected back in those mirrors,

687
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: But then they can also be sliding glass doors opening

688
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: up to new worlds, new adventures, new things, that they

689
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: don't know anything about new experiences. And they can also

690
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: be windows to see out to see what else is

691
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: out there, things that aren't even imaginable. Right, So books

692
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: can be extremely important. So I always say, first start

693
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,479
Speaker 1: with you know the child themselves, make sure they feel

694
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: represented it, and then you expand you don't stop with

695
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: just so we don't just have books by all black

696
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: authors or featuring black children. We have everything in our

697
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: household because we want to go beyond that. So the

698
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: M and the must have is the end of the

699
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: bus that was multicultural. So the you in the must

700
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: have is unique vocabulary. So it's really important because books,

701
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: children's books, if you think about it, have some really

702
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: really fun vocabulary words. And so I don't know if

703
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: any of your children watch Fancy Nancy. I mean I

704
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: remember Fancy Nancy books growing up. But then now with

705
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: the Disney Junior show, a lot more at children, younger

706
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: children are being introduced to Fancy Nancy, and she always

707
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: talks about those fancy words. We call those tier two words.

708
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: So these are words that can be These are words

709
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: that usually can be broken down make it more simple

710
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: or playing, as Nancy would say, So tier one words

711
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: are those words that children just learn from the environment,

712
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: bottle cup desk, they hear people say it, right. Tier

713
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: two words are fancier words, so words like chaos, you'd

714
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: see that in a book, and then we talk about

715
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: a more simple way to say that, maybe messy. But

716
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: you're teaching and targeting some of those new words, So

717
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: we always want to make sure you look at unique vocabulary.

718
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: The S is for story grammar. So while you know

719
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: there's some books that are just cute books, every book

720
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: isn't a good book for you know, if you're trying

721
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: to either for educationers and practitioners, if you're trying to

722
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: teach a concept. It just may be a cute book,

723
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: but it may not be a book that's good for

724
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: your classroom. But for parents it may be perfectly fine. Right,

725
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: But I still love some story grammar concepts. So there's

726
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: a setting, you know, who are the characters, what's the

727
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: event that happened? Think about your favorite Disney movie. You

728
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: canot always identify you know, the setting, the characters, the plot,

729
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: what was the big thing that happened? You know, and

730
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: then how do they resolve it? You can always think

731
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: about it that way. And then the tea and must

732
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: have is for ten minutes or less. So I don't

733
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: like to take a lot of time reading the book

734
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: because it's important for us to go beyond what we read, right,

735
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: and if we use all of our time, especially thinking

736
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: about nighttime routine, you don't have thirty minutes just to

737
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: sit and read the book, right, you want them to

738
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: go to sleep. So I like to make it about

739
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: ten minutes or so. And that saying goes in the

740
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: classroom because even in educational settings, you want to read

741
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: the book and then you want to go beyond the book.

742
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: So what are the extension activities? What questions can you ask?

743
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: If the book is too long, you lose a lot

744
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: of that time. And so even if it's an older

745
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: child that you may be reading with, so of course

746
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: they may have twenty minutes or thirty minutes that they

747
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: may have to read a day for school, which is fine.

748
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: But if it's some kind of joint reading, I usually

749
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: say about ten minutes or less, so then that way

750
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: you can have some time to discuss what they've been reading.

751
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: I really thought about like planning in your like post

752
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: reading activity or discussion. But that is a very good point.

753
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: I have to laugh at the thirty minutes because our

754
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: bedtime drags on and on and on, and I don't

755
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: have one of yees. You just wanted to take that long.

756
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: You want them to go to bed so that you

757
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: can decompress from the day, right, And if I know,

758
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: sounds so nice, I know, I'm telling you I we

759
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: are blessed in that way that she goes. She has

760
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: her other she has her other quirks, but thankfully bedtime

761
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: is one that goes pretty smoothly for us. It's really

762
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: important when thinking about it, though, is those are the

763
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: ways that we choose books when we go to the library,

764
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: and we are avid visitors of our library. We love

765
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: our librarians. We request holds they you know, and especially

766
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, they've been amazing where they they were

767
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: even you know, just bringing them out to your car

768
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: for you. So we're big advocates of use of public libraries.

769
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: Because one of the questions that I always get is

770
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: how much do you spend on books a month? I

771
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: don't spend a lot at all. Of course, there are

772
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: publishers and authors who support our website by providing their

773
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: books those kinds of things, But we go to our

774
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: local library, and so we ensure that we are spending

775
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: time in the library. I allow her to choose books

776
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: based on her interests. I'm not that parent who, even

777
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: though we have this platform around diverse children's books, if

778
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: she wants to read about those robots and animals, hey, fine,

779
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: go for it, right, you do you, But there's always balance, right,

780
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: and I still want her to grow up, you know,

781
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: reading all of the things that her peers are reading.

782
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: So it's really important though, because as we think about

783
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: the data around children's books and children's books publishing, there

784
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: are not a lot of books that are written that

785
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: feature children of color. It is increasing, but not by

786
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: a lot, and there are even fewer books that are

787
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: written by actual authors of color. So it's really important that,

788
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: you know, we identify those concepts as well. So it's

789
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: also important that you're ensuring the stories that you're getting

790
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: are being told by authors from those backgrounds. Yeah, I've

791
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: noticed that, Like, sometimes you'll find a book with a

792
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: really diverse cast of characters and then it turns out

793
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: it was actually a white author, and it's like, I

794
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: hope you've got everything right, right, right, right? Maybe you did,

795
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: but you know, it's nice to hear from the voices themselves.

796
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: I totally see that. Can you share some of your

797
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we're going to go to your website.

798
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: We're going to send everyone to your website so they

799
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: can browse everything. But I don't know if you had

800
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: to share just a couple of favorites, maybe for around

801
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: Maya's age group and a little bit younger and a

802
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: little bit older, just to give people, you know, a

803
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: fun place to start. Sure. Sure, so we have, oh gosh,

804
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: so many favorites, it's all. That's always one of the

805
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: toughest questions when people ask me what's our favorite books?

806
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: Right now, I'll tell you that one of our favorites

807
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: that just came out is Changed Things by Amanda Gorman,

808
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: of course, who came to fame at the presidential inauguration.

809
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: The illustrations in that book are just magical. So it's

810
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: like a little girl, she's, you know, making change in

811
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: her neighborhood. But as she's walking, everybody's picking up these instruments.

812
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: You know, she's helping this person with something, she's helping

813
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: another kid. Now they're cleaning up. Now they're doing this,

814
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: but everybody's also picking up an instrument and they form

815
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: this band at the end. It's a super cute book.

816
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: We love books that are super affirmative, So Derek Barnes

817
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: has a great book, I Am Every Good Thing, which

818
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: we love. It's just like an ode to Black Boy Joy,

819
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: So we love that one. Other books that we currently

820
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: love or I'll actually go to board books. I know

821
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: you mentioned board books. We love the series by Ruth Spyro,

822
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: the Baby Loves series, so it's Baby Loves Hearing, Baby

823
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: Loves Gravity. She introduces these science its concepts for kids

824
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: under the age of three, so it's super super fun

825
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: and the illustrations are always on point. Baby Loves Hearing

826
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: has been a recent favorite because there's a little boy

827
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: in it with a cochlear implant, which is really like,

828
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: how often do you see a book with a child

829
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: with a cochlear implant? Right? And it talks about sign

830
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: language and all of those things. So those are really cool.

831
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: Other favorites, let's see I Am Enough by the actress

832
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: Grace Byers is a really good one for us. Frank

833
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: Murphy his Like You series. I don't know if you've

834
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: seen them, but A Girl like You, A Boy like You,

835
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: A teacher like You. And the most recent release is

836
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: A Friend Like You and so we loved a Teacher

837
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: like You. That was our teacher appreciation gift last year

838
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: for her teachers. We gifted them. You know, Maya got

839
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: to write a little message in the books and we

840
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: gifted them to her teachers. So we love books for

841
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: all occasions, for all occasions, if I'm getting a gift

842
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: for your child, it's more than likely a book. I

843
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: love it and I love the theme, and it's true,

844
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 1: like there is a book for every occasion you gink.

845
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: There are so many books out there that like, you

846
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: can find that exact specific thing that you're looking for

847
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: if you look hard enough. And people sometimes ask. People

848
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: sometimes ask like, oh, I need a book around X,

849
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: Y Z, And I'm like, okay, bet here you go.

850
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: Oh I need a book around with dads and daughters. Okay,

851
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: here's a couple. And I do that. Even on the website.

852
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: I have book lists on Bookshops, which is a website

853
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: that supports brick and mortar local bookstores. They're divided by categories.

854
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: So if you're interested in books around social justice and

855
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 1: race for really young kids, there's a booklest for that.

856
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: If you want fall books. There's one for that too.

857
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: Books around grief, I mean, there is a lot of

858
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: grieving that's happening now, and unfortunately, you know, are a

859
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: lot of them, especially kids around Maya's age. They are

860
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: very aware of what's happening. We've lost a family member

861
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: to COVID and we absolutely turned to books, and so

862
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: it was one of those things that was super, super helpful.

863
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: So I've found that books can be used for joyous occasions,

864
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: even though sad ones books to affirm, books to celebrate,

865
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 1: you know, so all of the different religious holidays or

866
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: even the fun holidays. We're not big Halloween books, but

867
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: read them because of course it's happening regardless. So we

868
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: like books around seasons, holidays. We read it all. I

869
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: love it and I am very sorry for your lost

870
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: Oh thank you, thank you, Oh my gosh. Well, it's

871
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: a tough time, but books can keep us going. And

872
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: I know that everybody listening to this is going to

873
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: be running to your website. Is the easiest way to

874
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: find it? Is it just Maya's booknook to search for that?

875
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: Or is it the url itself? Yes, that's the url itself,

876
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: Maya's Booknook and it is the same on all on

877
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: the website and all social media platforms, so Facebook, Instagram,

878
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: and Twitter, and it's Maya just like Maya Angelou. M Aya.

879
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: I always tell her that, and she knows Maya Angelou

880
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: of course, because I have a lot of Maya Angelou books.

881
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: There's a Maya Angelou Barbie Doll that came out and

882
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: we have that one. So I always tell Ma Maya

883
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 1: that Maya Angelou was the first Maya that I loved, right,

884
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: So she knows Maya Angelou quite well. And sometimes she

885
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: jokes that she said when she grows up, she's gonna

886
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: be an author herself and she's going to change her

887
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: last name to Angelou. And I'm like, girlfriend, no, that's

888
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: not how this works. You you be your own Maya.

889
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: But she's also she wants to be an author, gymnast engineer,

890
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: so those are her goals because she also loves Smone Biles,

891
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 1: so I love it. Well, she's hargely possible or maybe

892
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: she can bring all of those points of expertise into

893
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: one really juicy book. I would totally read the Gymnast

894
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: Architect Engineer mister or something that sounds amazing. Oh yeah, oh,

895
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: and even now, what we see is lots of children's

896
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: books are being turned into TV shows. So I don't

897
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: know if you've heard, but we're we are really looking

898
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: forward to Ada Twist Scientists Show Yes on Netflix, I

899
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,959
Speaker 1: think this week, so it is airing really really soon.

900
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: And Ada Twist is one of All of the books

901
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: in those series are so good. Iggy Peck Architect, and

902
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: Rosie Perez and Sophia Sophia Future Press. My kids love.

903
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, they're gonna they're gonna be so excited.

904
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: I did not know that's on Netflix. Yeah, that is.

905
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: It's gonna be on Netflix. It's coming from that book

906
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: or that show deal that Barack and my show Obama

907
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: got for Netflix. So that's one of the first children's

908
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: shows that's coming. So we're super super excited about it.

909
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: I'm excited too. Ah, that is great. I'm seriously I'm

910
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: gonna tell my kids since they get home. They'll be

911
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: very excited. Oh yeah, Oh my gosh. Well, doctor Lakisha Johnson,

912
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: you were amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all

913
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: of this expertise and wisdom around reading, and I am

914
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: even more motivated to build my seasonal bookshelf so thank

915
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. Thank you so much

916
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: for all of the time today. It was so great

917
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: talking to you and also wonderful to meet you. Okay,

918
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: that was a wonderful interview. I so enjoyed talking with

919
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: doctor Lakisha Johnson, and so I hope many of you

920
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: got some great recommendations from that. So we do have

921
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: a Q and A for you today. We will go

922
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: ahead and read that it comes from the UK. All right,

923
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: you ready, Laura, I am ready. Okay. My question is

924
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: a little unique. I live in the UK, my husband

925
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: is British, and after living in the States, we moved

926
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: here because it's a nice place to have a family.

927
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: We get lots of great perks, like a one year

928
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: maternity leave. And I started my job in project management

929
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen and then had my first child in

930
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,439
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, eighteen months after starting the job. I went

931
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: back to work after eight months, which by UK standards

932
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 1: is very quick and actually took a bit of shame

933
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: from my colleagues for returning so quickly. The plan was

934
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: to have two children two years apart, so I had

935
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: my daughter in September of twenty twenty and took the

936
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: full year off again. This time I guess eight months

937
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: and then a full year. She writes, I'm back at

938
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: work and obviously facing the subtle career backlash of two

939
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: kids in two years and two maternity leaves, which within

940
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: five years of employment. I think all of this is surmountable,

941
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: and I'm very career focused and driven. I work four

942
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: days a week, as does my husband, and it's a

943
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: great balance of work, nursery home. The problem is we

944
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: probably want a third child. I feel like I was

945
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: one hundred percent forgiven in my career after having one

946
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 1: so soon after starting, and I can come back passionate,

947
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: with a strong focus after two and probably win everybody

948
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: to my side. But three three seems like a career killer.

949
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: I can image to imagine the higher up saying not again.

950
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: Obviously my work is not a good reason to dictate

951
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: family planning, and I'm lucky they will hold my job

952
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 1: and all the benefits of the leave system out here.

953
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if there's anything I can do before

954
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: getting pregnant to lay the groundwork for my return, anything

955
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: so the maternity hit isn't as bad and they don't

956
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: think of me as a flake who comes back strong

957
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: for maternity and goes back again right away. We're thinking

958
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: maybe about a little bit of a longer gap for

959
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: this one, like two and a half years, so I'd

960
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: be back at work for about eighteen months before leaving again.

961
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: I know these things can't be planned, but I can try.

962
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: What an interesting question that just boggles my mind about

963
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: how different maternity leaves are in different countries. Yeah, but

964
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: you know here this is not uncommon issue, and I

965
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, I know that a lot of American listeners

966
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: probably have this like ooh, glorify European maternity leaves. But

967
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: the truth is, it is very hard to take like

968
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: two years out of the workforce in say four years,

969
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: and not have it affect your career in some way. Again,

970
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: maybe your job is held for you, but your connections

971
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,919
Speaker 1: move on, like your skills may not be there as

972
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: much as they would be if you'd been working continuously.

973
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: You know, then glass ceiling people face because of taking

974
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 1: this long time out, and then they face a different

975
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: mind because, as this woman said, you can encounter a

976
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 1: lot of like shame from people if you don't take

977
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: the whole time. But if you're sort of career oriented,

978
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: it can be hard to take the full time. So

979
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there since I

980
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: think a lot of our American listeners have this idea

981
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: that it must you know, make everything hunky dory, but

982
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: there are still issues and they don't go away. There

983
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: are you know, things that are better. Obviously, it might

984
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: be easier to keep breastfeeding for longer and you don't

985
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: have the same sort of you know, childcare issues in

986
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: the first year that you might with you know, going

987
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 1: back to work at three four months, but there are

988
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: issues on the other side of it too, So just

989
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: something to keep in mind there. Yeah, I mean, my

990
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: you know first advice is like, again, if you want

991
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 1: to have a third kid, you should have a third kid,

992
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: and it will all work out in the end one

993
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: way or the other. If that is your desire, I'm

994
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: sure you will figure something out. I think, just personally

995
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: for her own sanity, having a longer gap between number

996
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: two and number three might be a good idea because

997
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, like she had two under two here and

998
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: then like having three under four sounds like, you know,

999
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: there might be other things that would inhibit your ability

1000
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: to work besides the long maternity leaves. If you wind

1001
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: up with three under four, so taking maybe a two

1002
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: and a half, as she said, he even three or

1003
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: four year gap might allow herself to recover a little bit,

1004
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: to have a little bit more you know, sanity with

1005
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: the older child being in school by the time she

1006
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: has a third I realize, like, you know, who knows

1007
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: if I, she wrote back, she's not forty years old, Like,

1008
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: she's young enough that this is doable. So that's something

1009
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: to put out there as an idea. You know, if

1010
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: she's concerned about it. She does not have to take

1011
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: the full year. I mean, obviously she can, but I

1012
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: think that is a personal choice. And it sounds like

1013
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: her husband has some flexibility in her job to his

1014
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: job too, So maybe he can work out a situation

1015
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: where he could take a slightly longer paternity leave and

1016
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: they could stack it and so they still had somebody

1017
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: home with the kid for the first year. But maybe

1018
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: he could work out something with his job that he

1019
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: had some more time off and so she could go

1020
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: back at what seemed like an appropriate time in her career.

1021
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: Like she has a reason for it, like I don't know,

1022
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: the start of the new year, or maybe it's the

1023
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: start of a busy season or something, and if anyone

1024
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: says anything, which again it's not their business, but if

1025
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: they do, be like, oh, well, we decided that we

1026
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: wanted John to have some time with the kids, and

1027
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: I'm really excited that John is getting to be home

1028
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: with the kids right now, or is just you know

1029
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: and so on. As a way to to put that

1030
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: out there, you know, she can also take these next

1031
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: two years to really focus on the soft side of

1032
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: her career. There is always, you know, the temptation and

1033
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: the stereotype when you are a working mother that you

1034
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, kind of put your head down and get

1035
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: done exactly what you need to do and you work

1036
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: through lunch so you can get out of there early.

1037
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: And you know that's a bad stereotype and certainly not

1038
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: everyone does that, but you don't want to play into that,

1039
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: so really do other things. Like she talked about setting

1040
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: up a mentoring program at work. I think that would

1041
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: be a great idea, right, Like she could mentor other

1042
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 1: people and rope other people into mentor and that sort

1043
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: of sets you up as being the you know, the

1044
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: big person making things happen, which again it's just a

1045
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: position of power that you were the ones setting up

1046
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: even these mentoring relationships. You know, do the lunches, do

1047
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: the coffees, go to the you know, any travel or

1048
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 1: conferences or whatever that you can. I mean, you've had

1049
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: this whole year at home. You've really been you know,

1050
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: as you think about work life balance, you've been way

1051
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: on the life side for the past you know year,

1052
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: and in fact, almost two years out of the past four.

1053
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: So it's okay to invest more in the work side

1054
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: right now. Like, I don't think there's any you know,

1055
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: why don't we look at balance holistically as opposed to

1056
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: you know, balance on any given Tuesday. Right So those

1057
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: were those were sort of my suggestions, and I'm curious

1058
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: what you think, Sarah. Yeah, I think I think a

1059
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: lot of that. That makes a lot of sense. I

1060
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: also agree with you that this question is just very interesting,

1061
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: not from a like ooh ooh, that I'm so jealous perspective,

1062
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,919
Speaker 1: but just like, wow, there are things I didn't think about.

1063
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: I especially the shame portion of getting shames for your

1064
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: colleagues for taking an eight month maternity leave other rather

1065
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: than a twelve month maternity leave. Like wow, I mean

1066
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: that's so interesting. I don't think the men are expected

1067
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: to take a twelve month maternity leave. So what a

1068
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: double standard there. I don't know if it's more of

1069
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: a like, is pumping thought and you were pumping maybe,

1070
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if you were not, is that considered

1071
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: bad or is it considered shameful not to do so?

1072
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm I'm interested in this and I'd

1073
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 1: love to have, you know, international listeners even teach us

1074
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: more about about this, this aspect of the culture that's

1075
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: a little bit different. But despite the quote unquote shame

1076
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, I say, do what you want. So if

1077
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: you don't feel like you want a full year away

1078
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: and it worked for you to take less, well know

1079
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 1: that there's lots of Americans doing it and turning okay.

1080
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: I know that it's sort of backwards from what the

1081
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: ideal is, and I think people should be able to

1082
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: take what they want. Let maybe clear if you're unhappy

1083
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: with a short leave and want to take more, you

1084
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: should be able to do that too. But just because

1085
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 1: you can take a long leave doesn't mean you should

1086
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: be forced into doing so ashamed for not doing so.

1087
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: So that's my one thought. The other thought is about

1088
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: the gap, fully support the gap. I mean, I have

1089
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 1: almost four years between Genevieve and Cameron, and that doesn't

1090
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: even honestly feel that long. They still can go to

1091
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: the same school, they can do similar activities. I'm sure

1092
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: that's going to feel wider when they're a little bit older,

1093
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: but to me, it doesn't. You know, a big gap

1094
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: is like eight years, ten years. I think four or

1095
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: five years is honestly fine and does give you a

1096
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: little bit of breathing room and time to build up

1097
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: some career capital or a niche in between. That might

1098
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: make you feel better. And it also put you know,

1099
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: your other leaves farther in people's rear view mirror, so

1100
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like you just left. It'll feel like, oh, yeah,

1101
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: she hasn't done this for a long time. She's been

1102
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: with us for years, and now she just is having

1103
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: one more and I think that might lessen theah on

1104
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 1: that side. So, yeah, very interesting question. Thank you for submitting,

1105
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: and you'll have to let us know what you decide.

1106
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: Sounds good. Well, I guess we won't hear for like

1107
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: three four years, because that's what she's looking at here.

1108
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: Follow up in twenty twenty five, twenty five. All right, well,

1109
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: this has been Best of Both worlds. Sarah has been

1110
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: interviewing doctor Lakisha Johnson about literature and reading, and we

1111
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: will be back next week with more on making work

1112
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find

1113
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the

1114
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura

1115
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the Best

1116
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 1: of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for

1117
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: more on making work and life work together.