1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Chuck here on Saturday with this selects with 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: a very gruesome pick trigger warnings. It's a true crime episode, 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: perhaps one of the most infamous crimes in American history. 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: And it's a two parter, so you get part one 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: this week, you get part two in two weeks. It's 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: called The Manson Family Murders. Art One from January twenty fifth, 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Beware. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 9 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 2: there's Charles W. Chuck Bright, and there's Jerry over there, 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: and we make up the Stuff you Should Know family, 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: the peace Lovin, Acid Lovin, non murdering nice family. Did 13 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: I say acid Levin in there? 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: You did? 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: Oh? Weird, peace Lovin non murdering family. 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know what, hopefully there are no kids 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: listening to this one anyway, so we can let everyone 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: else know that we take LSD before every episode. 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, the slogan of our show is wowie zowie. 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. So CoA. For those of you who did not 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: see the title, if you're listening to your kids about 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: The Manson Family Murders without a CoA, then you need 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: a parenting CoA. 24 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, for real. 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: But there are lots of grizzly details in this, so 26 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: obviously you may want to skip this one. With a 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: a on a family picnic picnic, Yeah. 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: It might kind of bring it down a couple of degrees. 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: It might be a drag, you know, probably so, uh, 30 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: speaking of drags, Chuck, I'll tell you who is a drag, 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: Charles Manson. He was. He was so like, there's this, 32 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: there's this reputed legend that Charles Manson tried out for 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: the monkeys and was rejected and that was ultimately why 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: he ordered these these grizzly murders of what that we'll 35 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: definitely get into. But it turns out that's absolutely false. 36 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that I've heard that, and it always sounded to 37 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: me like an urban legend. 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: Well, so the thing is, it's got like all sorts 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: of interesting facets to it, though, right, it's demonstrably false. 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: He was in prison at the time the monkey's tryouts 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: were held. But it kind of coincides with this larger 42 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: part of Charles Manson's life that not everybody's fully aware of, 43 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: which is that he wanted to be a star. He 44 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: wanted to be a musical recording star, and he actually had. 45 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: He made some inroads into that career. And I have 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: read theories that it is possible that these murders were 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: ordered as a means of venting Manson's frustration that his 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: music career wasn't going as well as thought it should 49 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: ye and sending a message to some people in the 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: music industry that he'd made contacts with to basically say, hey, 51 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: I can't kill you because I need you, but I 52 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: can kill other people to get you going and get 53 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: my music career off the ground. What's the hold up? 54 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: Which is just like the Manson family murders on their face, 55 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: as they're largely understood, is nuts. But if that's the 56 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 2: real thing behind all of this, that's just the depths 57 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 2: of depravity, of human depravity that people are capable of. 58 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: I bet that's not like the sole reason. 59 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: But you know, like if you really strip reasons down, 60 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: like what are motivations for things? Like is it really 61 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: you know, to bring on Helter Skelter? Is it because 62 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: he was a frustrated musician? You know? Like you can 63 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: say the same thing about Hitler, like was there a 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: kernel of Hitler's rejection from the art world and from 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: people at large that drove him to order the horrible 66 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: things that he ordered the Nazis to do. Like, it 67 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: makes you wonder, like what is the motivation behind world 68 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: changing events when you break them down to a personal level. 69 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, Manson, to be fair, was had 70 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: mental illness in a lifetime of rejection, so right, this 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: could all affect her in for sure. 72 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. But so I mean you you you asked for 73 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 2: this article to be written, didn't you. Was this your jam? 74 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, ed the grabster. We can sort of petition 75 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: him to write articles at times, and this was definitely 76 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: one of them. 77 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. So did you know a lot about the Manson 78 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: family murders and the family themselves and all that stuff already? 79 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? 80 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you this was this is probably still part 81 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: of like the cultural zeitgeist when you were becoming like 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 2: aware of the world as a kid. Huh. 83 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, I definitely remember the book Helter Skelter being 84 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: a huge, huge thing, And I remember a time before 85 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: like media so robust, when the idea of Charles Manson 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: was just so terrifying to me. I do too, And 87 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: then I got older and saw interviews and I was like, oh, 88 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: he's just a little tiny redneck. Yeah, Like it all vanished. 89 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, he's just he's just 90 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: a little redneck. 91 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's what. There were two things that 92 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: kids of the eighties went through as far as awakenings. 93 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: Were concerned that the Soviet people went out to murder 94 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: all of us, yeah, and that Charles Manson was not 95 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: actually scary. He was just a dumb redneck behind bars. 96 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean what he did was horrific, to be sure, 97 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: so I'm not like minimizing that. But as far as 98 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: the person, he was this larger than life, scary as 99 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: crap dude to me. Until you know, interviews started coming 100 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: out and sit downs with like Diane Sawyer, I was like, 101 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: this guy's a joke. 102 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: But for a little while there, he was legitimately America's 103 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 2: worst nightmare because at the time, like a lot of 104 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: people say, when the Manson family committed these murders, and 105 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 2: it came out, you know, a couple months later, that 106 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: some depraved acid head hippies had actually committed these gruesome 107 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: crimes that had captured the nation's attention, it suddenly gave 108 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: the establishment, who had been looking for anything to lay 109 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: on to hippies to say, see, see we told you 110 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: you can't be trusted. Your whole peace, love free stuff 111 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 2: like that doesn't work. You can't do that because this 112 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: is the outcome of it. Manson was that personified, and 113 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: for a lot of for that reason, a lot of 114 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 2: people say this guy, these murders ended the Summer of 115 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: love and the era of hippies and ushered in the seventies. 116 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, timing wise, it just seems 117 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: very natural. And Ed even points out like even during 118 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: the trial that narrative was being laid down, it wasn't 119 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: like years later people look back and said this. And 120 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: he also, I thought it was really interesting. I never 121 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: really put it into context like Ed did. But the 122 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: moon landing, the very first moon landing that is, happened 123 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: two weeks before the Manson family murders, and then a 124 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: week after the murders was Woodstock, So that was a 125 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: that was a nutty month. It really wasn't know in America. 126 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: And again these murders when they took place, they were 127 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: just no one had any idea who the Manson family 128 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: was except for a handful of people out in LA 129 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: and some cops that had run ins with them, but 130 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: they were not famous, and no one realized that the 131 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: Manson family had been responsible for these murders. They were 132 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: just these gruesome, unsolved murders in between the moon landing 133 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 2: and Woodstock. Yeah, so a lot of people let's start 134 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: at the what a lot of people consider the beginning, 135 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: which is the night of August ninth, in a house 136 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: at one zero zero five zero c Yellow Drive, which 137 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: is in Beverly Hills, up in the hills, right. 138 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I looked at like three different places how to 139 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: pronounce that, and they all said yellow except for Diane. 140 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: Sawyer said cello, And I'm like, man, is Dian soil? 141 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: You're wrong? No about anything? 142 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: No, whatever she says is absolutely right. She could make turtlenecks, right. 143 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: I used to love turtlenecks. 144 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: Sure they had a real heyday, for sure. 145 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: You don't see him anymore. 146 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: I used to wear them on. Don't be dumb, but 147 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: it was kind of a gag. 148 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: I think I could still pull one off, maybe, especially 149 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: with the beard. 150 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. The beard would definitely help, you know, because you 151 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: could you could turn a certain way and be like 152 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 2: regular shirt, turtleneck, regular shirt, turtleneck just by just by 153 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: moving your head and your beard out of the way. 154 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course in the eighties I would rock 155 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: the mock turtleneck regularly. 156 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: Did you I never really did. Did you wear them 157 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: with Zeke Varici's. 158 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it wasn't. 159 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: You didn't dress like ac Slater. 160 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: No, it was sort of believe it or not. That 161 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: was like a post preppy thing where the mock turtleneck 162 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: was acceptable and not cheesy really in a preppy sense. 163 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: I gotcha, Because I was sort of a prep before 164 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: I became a human monster. 165 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: I could see that. Did you Did you wear the 166 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: LaCosta alligator and stuff? 167 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,599 Speaker 1: Nah? We couldn't afford that stuff, so I or the knockoffs, 168 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: I gotcha. Or if I had the la cost the 169 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: alligator was like accidentally so onto the collars. 170 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we've had this conversation. Yeah, all that 171 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: good stuff factory seconds, Yep, that's mactory Remnant's nice. So 172 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: on this night on August ninth, are we going with 173 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: Cello or Diane Sawyer's Cello? 174 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's just say that the house that 175 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: Satan built, right, it's not there anymore, by the way. 176 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: No, they tore it down, but not before Trent Rezner 177 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: went in and recorded at nine Inch Nails album. 178 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: There, because why not? 179 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: Why not? So at this at this house at one 180 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: zero zero five zero Yellow Drive, that's not there any longer. 181 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: There was a knock at the door on the night 182 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: of August ninth, around midnight, so I don't know if 183 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: that makes it August ninth or tenth. I couldn't get 184 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 2: a definitive answer, but the door was answered by a 185 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: guy named Voytek Freikowski, who was known as a Polish playboy. 186 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: He was friends of the director Roman Polanski and he 187 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: was there because inside that house was Roman Polanski's wife, 188 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: Sharon Tate, who was eight months pregnant with their I 189 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: believe their first child. I don't think they had any 190 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 2: other children. Sharon Tate was pretty young at the time. 191 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 2: But also inside was Abigail Folger, who was the heiress 192 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: to the Folger Coffee fortune. And I think, oh, one 193 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 2: other guy, Jay Sebring, who was a stylist who is 194 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: known as the guy who introduced hair styling to men. 195 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: So he was pretty well off and pretty well known 196 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: as far as la went. And they're just kind of 197 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: this hip industry party crowd inside this this residence, and 198 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: there was a knock at the door and this guy 199 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: was there on the other side of the door, and 200 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: he had a mustache and he was tall, kind of 201 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 2: a natural athlete, tight type from Texas. And he said, 202 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business. 203 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: And that was Tex Watson, and he entered the house 204 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: and this massacre of everybody inside began. 205 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, so what had happened previous to that knock was 206 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: Tex Watson climbed up a telephone pole, cut the phone 207 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: line and then climbed the fence with a couple of 208 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: other people, one Susan Atkins and one Patricia Krinwinkle, all 209 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: Manson family members. And we'll get into the whole family 210 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: thing in a minute. And so they climbed over the fence, 211 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: went in. There was a kid, a teenager named Steve 212 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: Parent who was leaving in his car already, and he 213 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: did not make it out. He was shot five times. 214 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: He was slashed and shot five times by Tex Watson 215 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: before he could get down the tway. So one murder 216 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: had already been committed on that property by the time 217 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: they even got to the house. 218 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if any of these people, which you can 219 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: definitely make the case all of them were in the 220 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time. Stephen parent was just 221 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: doubly so he was visiting the caretaker of the house, 222 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: so he had nothing to do with the Hollywood jet 223 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: set people inside or the Manson family. He was just 224 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: friends with somebody who was like a worker at the 225 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 2: house and he was leaving at the time too. 226 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, he would have been friends with what was a 227 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: guy's name from. 228 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: The oj oh Man. 229 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: He would have been friends with kat o'kalin, which is Yeah, 230 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: that would have been a bad thing to be I. 231 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: Think talk about a mock turtleneck. 232 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he has one permanently tattooed on his neck. 233 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: There was also a third Manson family member, Linda Kasabian, 234 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: who was not in the house, but she waited. Essentially 235 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: was the getaway driver. 236 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: Right and she just come into the family like a 237 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: month before, And apparently the reason she was out with 238 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: them was because she was the only one with a 239 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: valid driver's license out of that group. So Lenny Kasaven's 240 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: sitting outside, Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkle, and Susan Atkins all 241 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: enter the house and they just start killing everybody. Apparently 242 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: Texa was the only one with a gun, but all 243 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: three of them had knives. Patricia Krenwinkle found Abigail Folger 244 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: reading in bed and started to kill her. I believe 245 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring were in the living room 246 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 2: together and they were both killed there in the living room. 247 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: Voytech freed Kowski made it out of the house, but 248 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: he was killed in the front lawn. Abigail Folger I think, 249 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: made it out the back and she died on the 250 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 2: back lawn. And one of the things about this is 251 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: like the reason the word massacres like such an apt description. 252 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: These were just basically, like I don't know how old 253 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: text was, he was a little bit older, but these 254 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: are basically like seventeen, eighteen, nineteen year old girls who 255 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: had never done anything like this before and were really 256 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: not very good at it while they were doing it 257 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: this first time, and it was just bad for everybody. Apparently, 258 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: it's very brutal. There was a lot of fear and 259 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: terror and a lot of pain and torment among everybody 260 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: who was being killed in this house. It wasn't easy clean. 261 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: You wouldn't characterize it as like a hit it was 262 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: a massacre. 263 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Abigail Folger herself was stabbed twenty eight times and 264 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: then see bring in Forrakowski. In addition to being stabbed, 265 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: were also shot, and obviously Sharon Tate's unborn child was 266 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: killed in this process as well. And supposedly, and this 267 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: is a direct quote apparently I guess from the trial 268 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: the directive from Charles Manson. And if you don't know this, 269 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: I guess we should go ahead and say Charles Manson, 270 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: even though later on other people said that Tex Watson 271 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: was more acting on his own and misunderstood Manson's directive. 272 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: But Charles Manson ordered these killings, which we'll get into. 273 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: But he told Watson supposedly totally destroy everyone in that 274 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: house as gruesome as you can. So in addition to 275 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: the mutilation of the bodies and like post mortem stab wounds, 276 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: that was stuff written on the walls and their blood 277 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: like pig, and well I think pig was the only 278 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: thing written on the wall at. 279 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: This one, right on the front door. 280 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: Which is a obviously was a reference to cops at 281 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: the time. 282 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: Right, and they wrote it in Sharon Tate's blood, right, 283 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: So pig is on the door in blood the perpetrators 284 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: got away, The Manson family got away. They made it 285 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: back to I think the Spawn Ranch, which is one 286 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: of the places they were staying. So then two nights later, 287 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: Manson orders the family to go do it again. He 288 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: actually said that they done according to text and the 289 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: rest of them. He actually said that they'd done it wrong. 290 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: They had created panic and fear in these people, and 291 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: they needed to do it right this time. But to 292 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: go go out and butcher another family. And he took 293 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: him to a house, and it was a house next 294 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: door to this house that the Manson family used to 295 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 2: party at. It was a friend of one of Manson's 296 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: record producer friends. And next door was just this normal, 297 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: unassuming couple who had from what I understand, no interaction 298 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: with the Mansons at any point in time. It was 299 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: this couple named Leno and Rosemary Labiyanca, and they were 300 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: just about his middle class, upper middle class America establishment 301 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 2: as you could get. 302 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was actually lived less than two miles from 303 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: this house. It was in the Los Filis neighborhood. And 304 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: just the night before they had had a party at 305 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: this dude's house who and the reason he didn't want 306 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: to go back to that house is because he thought 307 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: maybe it could be tied back to him in some 308 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: way because he was there the night before. So they 309 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: just randomly picked the neighbor and there was six of 310 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: the followers there, the original four from the Tate House 311 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: plus Leslie van Houghton and Clem Grogan I think it 312 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: was his name. And yeah, it was talking about wrong place, 313 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: wrong time. They were just in there enduring their evening 314 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: and Manson did break. He was, actually, like you said, 315 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: there for this one, whereas he wasn't even there for 316 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: the Tate one. And he took part in the tying up, 317 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: but then he left, which very cowardly left. And this 318 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: whole thing just reeks of cowardice, like go do my 319 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: dirty work for me, exactly kind of in most of 320 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: these cases. 321 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 2: Right, So they tie up the lot beyond because they 322 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 2: murdered them brutally again. They carved war in mister or 323 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: la Bianca's stomach with a knife. They left the knife 324 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: sticking out of his neck, They left a fork sticking 325 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: out of his stomach. It was just another really gruesome scene. 326 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: And then again in blood they wrote they wrote things 327 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: around the house like they wrote political you know, they 328 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: wrote pigs again. 329 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, they wrote death to Pigs, they wrote they misspelled it. 330 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: They wrote Helter Skelter, which we'll get into. That was 331 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: a Beatles song, which factors in pretty heavily. And then 332 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: they wrote Rise. And the whole notion here and we'll 333 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: cover this in detail more later too, was that Manson 334 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: was trying to, or at least he says, he was 335 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: trying to ignite a race war and have it appear 336 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: that black people and maybe even black panthers had killed 337 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: these white people, which would and then turn spark a 338 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: race war. They would all kill each other and the 339 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: Manson And the reason I'm laughing is because it's just 340 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: so ridiculously impive, im plausible, and then the Manson family 341 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: would be the only people left and they could rule 342 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the world. 343 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was supposedly the whole thing behind Helter Skelter. 344 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: So the cops in LA, the Sheriff's Department and the 345 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: LA Cops have two different murder scenes that are obviously related, 346 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: but early on they didn't They didn't connect them yet. 347 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 2: It took it took a minute, but once they did, 348 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: these two murders came to be known as the Tate 349 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: LaBianca murders before anyone knew who the Manson family was, 350 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: and it was a big deal. But you have to 351 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: go back even further to understand what's going on and 352 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: to understand the eventual prosecution of the Manson family to 353 00:19:41,920 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: another murder, and we will dive into that one after this. Okay, Chuck. 354 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 2: So everybody knows about the Tate LaBianca murders, so much 355 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: so that they're frequently called the Manson family murders. But 356 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: it turns out that the Manson family was already involved 357 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 2: in another previous murder a couple of weeks before the 358 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 2: Tate and LaBianca murders happened. I think in like late 359 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: July of nineteen sixty nine, right. 360 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was one other murder and an 361 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: attempted murder and then an not quite attempted murder also, right. 362 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: So the one you're talking about, I think is probably 363 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: Gary Henman, who he was, Well, why don't you go 364 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: and explain how he fit into this whole thing? 365 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 2: Okay? So Gary Henman was a music teacher who was 366 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: a friend of the Manson family. I don't think he 367 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 2: ever was considered like a Manson family member, but he 368 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 2: was a buddy of them, and he either had a 369 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 2: trust fund coming or there was a rumor that he 370 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: had access to a trust fund of like twenty thousand dollars, 371 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: and so the Manson family went over to rob him. 372 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: I think Bobby boso Let was the leader of that, 373 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 2: and they went over to rob him. Or he had 374 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 2: supplied the Manson family with a bunch of mescaline that 375 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 2: they in turn sold to a motorcycle gang that was 376 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 2: not happy that when it turned out the mescaline was 377 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 2: bad who wanted their money back. So the Manson family 378 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 2: had gone to go get their money back from this guy, 379 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: and apparently he had said, like, I don't have any money, 380 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: but here, I'll sign over the title of my cars 381 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: to you. Here are the keys. And at this point 382 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 2: they had him tied up and I'm not entirely certain why, 383 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 2: but Charles Manson, and this is widely agreed upon, I 384 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 2: think even by Manson himself, that Manson came over to 385 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: the house to basically assist in getting this guy to 386 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 2: cough up his money. Maybe that's what it was. And 387 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 2: he took a sword and chopped off part of the 388 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 2: guy's ear. 389 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And depending on who you believe, some say Manson 390 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: actually ended up killing him. Other people say that Bobby 391 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: Bosalil ended up stabbing him to death. Manson was on 392 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: the scene for this one, though, which was different than 393 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: the other murders, And I guess it just depends on 394 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: who you believe it was. Bousoalia was eventually arrested while 395 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: driving that car of Hinman's. 396 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: So him instead, BOSSI Little's in jail. And you have 397 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: to actually go back even further to find the first 398 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: at least attempted murder by the Manson family earlier in July, 399 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 2: on July first. This is just a bad jam if 400 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: you really start thinking about it, like all these dates 401 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: are so compressed, and you think about the Manson family 402 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,479 Speaker 2: just being in this crazy like murderous killsprey and it 403 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 2: really only went for like a month, basically, you know, 404 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 2: four or five weeks. But they did a lot of 405 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 2: damage in that time. But the whole thing started, and 406 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 2: you can make the case, and a lot of people 407 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 2: do that. The whole thing, everything else that followed actually 408 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: started on July first, when Charles Manson went to the 409 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: apartment of a syndicate drug dealer, like a big time 410 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 2: drug dealer named Bernard lots of Papa Crow, right. 411 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: Yes, and Manson thought that he might have been a 412 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: black panther. I don't think that was ever confirmed. I 413 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: read a lot of articles kind of going back and forth. 414 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: But regardless, Manson thought he was a black panther. There 415 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: was a double crossing deal that went on, and they 416 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: went over and Manson actually shot Crow and thought he 417 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: had killed him, but he did not die. And he 418 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: did not go to the cops because he you know, 419 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: what do you do go to the cops and say, hey, 420 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: a double cross these weirdo rednecks hippies. 421 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: No, they doublecross him. They double crossed him. 422 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: Oh see I read that he double cross them? No, no, 423 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: why no? Tex Watson, Well, either way, he would not 424 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: go to the cops right in his condition, and so 425 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: that's why it was never reported. But he was interviewed 426 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: in the transcript is pretty interesting to listen to. 427 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, and he wouldn't go to the cops 428 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: because he would just handle it himself. And that's basically 429 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: what he vowed to do. So there's this guy who 430 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 2: Manson shot in the gut and left for dead, who 431 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 2: now wants to kill Manson. In the whole family and 432 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: that Manson's convinced as a black panther, which suddenly makes 433 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: sense as to why you would have found something like 434 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 2: political piggies and a Paul print in blood at Gary 435 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: Heimman's murder scene. Right, Yeah, because this is about the 436 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 2: time that this whole helter skelter thing is happening starting out. 437 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: And. 438 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: The whole idea that there is a race war coming 439 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 2: and that the Manson family might be able to nudget 440 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 2: a long by framing the black community or black panthers 441 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: for these murders of white people is the basis of 442 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: this idea of what was behind the Manson family murders 443 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: as far as the prosecution is concerned. 444 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mentioned an almost attempted murder, jumping back 445 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: forward again the very night of the The idea of 446 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: the night of the Lobbianca murders was to have two 447 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: separate murders on the same night, and Manson ordered a 448 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: few I think three different followers, including Linda Kasabian, to 449 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: murder this kind of little known Lebanese actor named Saladin Nadar, 450 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: and Kasabian basically got there, didn't want to do this 451 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: and so intentionally knocked on the wrong door of the apartment, 452 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: basically giving her an excuse to get out of there. 453 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: So weirdly, Saladin Nadir was never was a near victim 454 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: of the Manson family. So that's talk about a talk 455 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: about a close call. 456 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: Yeah for real, you know. Yeah, And I looked him up. 457 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: He basically was a famous actor by that time, and 458 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 2: then just didn't do much after that. So I wonder 459 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: if that had if that like just broke his brain 460 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: or something, you know, I don't know. I think it 461 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: would have done that to me. 462 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: All right, So I think it's about time for another 463 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: ad break. Let's do it, all right, We'll be right 464 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: back after this, all right, Chuck, we're back. Should we 465 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: talk about Charles Manson a little bit? 466 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's so, like, well, let's recap real quick, Okay. 467 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: Manson has shot lots of Papa Crow in his stomach, 468 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: lots of Crow, has vowed to kill the whole Manson family. 469 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 2: Bobby Bosolt killed Gary Hinman, tried to frame the Black 470 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: Panthers by writing political piggies in blood on the wall. 471 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 2: Bobby Bosolet is arrested the Manson family, supposedly trying to 472 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 2: make it look like somebody besides Bobby bosolet might have 473 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 2: killed Gary Henman, kill the people at the Tate residence, 474 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 2: kill the people at the LaBianca residence. Write things like 475 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: political piggies and rise and pig in blood on the 476 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: walls there. And that's where we've left off so far. 477 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: The Manson family hasn't been caught yet. Let's talk about 478 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: Charles Manson, all right. 479 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: So Manson, it's sort of mixed up on what you 480 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: want to believe because a lot of the information about 481 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: his life came from him, and anyone who knows anything 482 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: about Charles Manson knows that he had a tendency to 483 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: overstate things and certainly lie about things. But what we 484 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: do know is that he was born in nineteen four 485 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: to a teen mom and dad, and the dad basically 486 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: would not assume any paternity or responsibility, sort of split. 487 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: His name was colonel, his actual name was colonel, and 488 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: he convinced people that he was an army colonel even 489 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: though he was not. So he was just never on 490 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: the scene at all, and he ended up taking the 491 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 1: name Manson from his stepfather, who you know, his mom married. 492 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: She was an alcoholic, may have been a prostitute, She 493 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: was in and out of jail for most of her life, 494 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: or most of his young life, and it was just, 495 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, a truly bad scene for a young Charles Manson. 496 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: Right, So he actually went and lived with relatives while 497 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 2: she was in jail for a five year stretch. She 498 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: got out, they reunited, he said, He apparently said that 499 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 2: reuniting with her was one of the few truly joyful 500 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: moments in his life. But in very short order, she 501 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: basically was like, I can't take care of you. I 502 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 2: don't really want this responsibility and handed him over to 503 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: the state, which begun, which began a just basically a 504 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: string of institutionalization that would keep going for basically his 505 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: whole life. 506 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean by the time he was eventually sent 507 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: to federal prison, I think he was thirty two years 508 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: old when he was released in sixty seven, and they 509 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: calculated that he had spent half of his life in 510 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: and out of institutions, whether it be orphanages or juvie 511 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: or real deal prison in jail. 512 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 2: Right, And that was just the first part of his life. 513 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: So he was out for two years before they got 514 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: him again after these murders. By the time he died 515 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: in prison at age eighty three this past November twenty seventeen, 516 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 2: he had spent, from my calculations, only thirteen years of 517 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: his life as a free man. Yeah, thirteen out of 518 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: eighty three years outside of institutions. So he had a 519 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: lot of the deck stacked again. But you can also 520 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 2: go back to I think March nineteen sixty seven, when 521 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: he was released on parole from federal prison, where he 522 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 2: was given a choice like, hey, man, here you go. 523 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: You're out. You can decide what to do with your life. 524 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: Do you want to go straight, do you want to 525 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 2: go have a nice family, Do you want to just 526 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 2: be a productive member of society, or are you going 527 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: to go the exact opposite direction. And as we know 528 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: in hindsight, Charlie Manson chose the exact opposite direction. 529 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if he was ever officially diagnosed, 530 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: but I did see that doctors over the years and 531 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: mental health professionals say that he was probably schizophrenic, suffered 532 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: from schizophrenia, and had a paranoid delusional disorder. 533 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: At the very least, I hadn't heard the schizophrenia, think 534 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: paranoid delusional disorder totally buy. 535 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, So he was a troubled dude. Of course, not 536 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: excusing anything, but it was clearly a case of mental 537 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: illness combined with rejection and institutionalization really led to like 538 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: the man that he would eventually become right. 539 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 2: So he gets out of prison right and he is 540 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: basically released into San Francisco nineteen sixty seven. So it's 541 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 2: like Hippiedum, the Kingdom of Hippiedom, where he shows up 542 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 2: and there's you know, at the time, everybody's looking for 543 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: like something new, something different, something that's an alternative to 544 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 2: the establishment of the mainstream or anything different. And so 545 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: Charles Manson says, like, oh, I can totally exploit a 546 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: lot of these people. And he starts out by meeting 547 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: a girl, a librarian named Mary Brunner, and he moves 548 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 2: into her apartment and she apparently was very fascinated with 549 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 2: him because she had led a fairly straight laced life. 550 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: She went to college again, she was a librarian, and 551 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: all of a sudden there's this wild like x Khan 552 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: who is preaching this kind of gospel of love and 553 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: no materials. And apparently before November nineteen sixty eight, which 554 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: we'll explain what happened then before that time, Charles Manson 555 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 2: supposedly did pretty closely resemble an actual hippie, like he 556 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: felt like he could take anything of yours that he wanted, 557 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: but you could also take anything of his. And he 558 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 2: apparently walked the walk when it came to stuff like that, 559 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: and there are plenty of stories of him just giving 560 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 2: up whatever material possessions saying they didn't matter before things 561 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 2: really took a dark turn. So there's if you really 562 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 2: kind of dive in, it becomes clear how he could 563 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: have amassed some of these early followers. And the first 564 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: one was Mary Brunner. 565 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get the feeling that this probably would not 566 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: have happened in any other era other than this generation. 567 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: When you know, we've talked about it in our Brainwashing 568 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: in our Cults episodes, where this time it was just 569 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: just a weird time in America and people were really, 570 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: I don't know about prone, but at least ripe for 571 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: the picking when it comes to falling into situations like 572 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: this and believing these what looked like crackpots to us now, 573 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: but at the time everyone was. It was very anti establishment. 574 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: People were taking tons of drugs and reject rejecting mainstream 575 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: society and embracing the counterculture, and they were just really 576 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: open to all kinds of weird stuff. 577 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 2: Right, So he again, he just kind of figured out 578 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 2: that he could he could work this to his own means. 579 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things that there's there's two 580 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 2: basic things that you needed to know about Charles Manson 581 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: from from everything I've seen. One was that his main 582 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: goal was to become a recording artist, a very successful 583 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 2: star of a recording artist. And two that he could 584 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 2: he had a good ability to manipulate people into giving 585 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: them what he wanted, and mostly that that amounted to 586 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 2: sex and drugs, and he used that ability to get 587 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 2: other people to do what he wanted. So, for example, 588 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 2: when he started doing mask, like a substantial amount of 589 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 2: girls in the Manson family, it was it was just 590 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 2: a free love commune the whole time. So the guys 591 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 2: who came in all of a sudden had access to 592 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 2: these the women, and in return for Charlie granting them 593 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 2: access to them, they would basically do his bidding or 594 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: offer him physical protection because he wasn't a big guy. 595 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 2: He's kind of a shrimpy dude. But there everything from 596 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 2: from if you look at it from an outsider's perspective, 597 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 2: every relationship be had it was one of extraction. He 598 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 2: was taking something from everyone around him. It wasn't just 599 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 2: a normal friendship or a normal relationship. It was it 600 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 2: was what can you do for me? And what can 601 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 2: I use from you to get something out of other people. 602 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you've never seen an interview with him, 603 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: I encourage you to check some of him out. He 604 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: does have a very stream of consciousness, circular, sort of 605 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: talks NonStop and doesn't make a lot of sense. But 606 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: one thing that's often said about him is that he 607 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: can be mesmerizing with the way he does that. And 608 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: I imagine in the late sixties, if you've got a 609 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: head full of acid and there's this guy that has 610 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: the ability to like almost rebreathe like a trumpet player 611 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: and talk for minutes and minutes and hours on end, 612 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: they could be kind of you know, they would fall 613 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: under this weird spell, right, So I definitely don't get 614 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: it because now when I watch him again, tiny weird redneck. 615 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: But when you you know, when you see him doing 616 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: a thing, even with like Diane Sawyer, who doesn't fall 617 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: for it, by the way, she clearly is just like 618 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: very it's a great interview. She's pro and she stays 619 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: very on point, basically kind of like, you're not going 620 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: to get me to like fall for your charms, right, 621 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: but it's pretty interesting. So he's got Mary Bruner as 622 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: this first girlfriend. Then he said, hey, what do you 623 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: think about a triad? Or rather, what do you think 624 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: about a triad? That's how he sounded. And Mary Brunner, 625 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: from what I understand, wasn't super into it, but she 626 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: was under his spell, so she said sure. So Squeaky 627 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: from Lynette, Squeaky from came into the picture and they, 628 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, they lived as a threesome that traveled together 629 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: up and down the coast out there, and he just 630 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: sort of started accumulating mostly women along the way to 631 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: this sort of traveling party is probably how he framed it, 632 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: and people were hip to it. There were men though, 633 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: besides Tex Watson and Bobby Busolill, those guy name Danny 634 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: DeCarlo who were kind of early men who joined up. 635 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: And by all accounts, most of those men who joined 636 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: up were there because Manson was said, you know, you 637 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: can have these women. You got plenty of drugs, and 638 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: so before you know it, the Manson family was born. 639 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were just kind of this weirdo hippie 640 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: group that used to commit burglaries. Manson, there has long 641 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: been it's long been said that he beat a lot 642 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: of the women in the group and would prostitute them 643 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: for cash to pay for things for the family, like rent. 644 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 2: They ate a lot of their food from like going 645 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 2: through dumpsters behind grocery stores and stuff like that. And 646 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 2: they just basically hung out and did drugs and had 647 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 2: sex all day. That was basically their aim and their goal. 648 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 2: And then at night they would have bonfires out in 649 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: the desert and they'd all just take a bunch of 650 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 2: acid and listen to Charles Manson to do his mesmerizing thing. 651 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 2: And again, at first it was it was weird. There's 652 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 2: a lot of ideas that Manson was this reincarnation of 653 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, or that he was not even the reincarnate 654 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ. He was the same Jesus Christ who'd 655 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 2: been alive for you know, almost two thousand years. And 656 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 2: just like all this stuff you would find in the 657 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 2: desert among hippies in the late sixties, on acid at 658 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 2: night around a bonfire. Right, but when by this time, 659 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 2: like by the time they're out in the desert, Manson 660 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 2: had had this really amazing chance encounter that you just 661 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: would never have and the fact that it did happen 662 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: is just totally mind blowing. But become a recording artist. 663 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 2: To help ensure his success at becoming a recording artist, 664 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 2: he moved the family from San Francisco down to Los 665 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 2: Angeles to be closer to the center of the recording industry, 666 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 2: and it just so happened in that one night in 667 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, a couple of Manson family girls were 668 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 2: hitchhiking on Sunset Boulevard and were picked up by none 669 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 2: other than Dennis Wilson, one of the co founders of 670 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 2: the Beach Boys. 671 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: That's right, it was sixty nine, but same deal. All 672 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: those years just ran together back then, and Dennis Wilson 673 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: was he was a party, party dude and liked his ladies. 674 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: Because it sounds very weird to say that he picked 675 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: up a couple of hitchhikers and basically brought them home, 676 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: but it was a different time, and like I said, 677 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: he was a party dude. So they ended up being Eli, 678 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: Joe Bailey and the aforementioned Patricia Crinwinkle, so they move 679 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: in basically, and he goes to the studio, comes home 680 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: and the Manson family had moved in, which again it 681 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: sounds really strange, but at the time he I mean 682 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: Ed says he was frightened that I get the feeling. 683 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: He was more like, you know, what trip are you on, 684 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: not like, oh my god, I need to call the cops. Yeah, 685 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: he I think they lived there for a while, like 686 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 1: he let them live there. 687 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the part it was partially out of fear. 688 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,479 Speaker 2: I saw and I read an interview with Charles Manson 689 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: when he was talking about Dennis Wilson, and he was like, 690 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 2: you know, I'd say whatever, he just lay his weirdo 691 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 2: trip on Dennis Wilson, and Dennis's response would be like, yeah, 692 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 2: I mean that's cool. Listen, look I gotta go. I 693 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: really got to go do this thing. Just always trying 694 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 2: to get away from Charles Manson. So maybe he was 695 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 2: afraid that he was they were going to kill him. 696 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 2: Maybe he liked having access to like all his free 697 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 2: love from all the Manson family women, or maybe he 698 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 2: just felt like he couldn't get out of it. But he, uh, 699 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 2: he did let them live there for a few months. 700 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 2: It wasn't like they crashed there for a weekend. They 701 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 2: moved in, they wrecked his ferrari. Yeah, they they met 702 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 2: a bunch of his friends. It was it was a 703 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 2: big It was a big deal that Dennis Wilson came 704 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 2: into Charles Manson life because it really bolstered this idea that, yes, 705 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 2: he is going to become a recording artist. Because not 706 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 2: only did he hang out with Dennis Wilson, he hung 707 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 2: out with a guy named Terry Melcher who is a 708 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 2: record producer, hung out with another guy named Phil Kaufman 709 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 2: who is a record producer, and he met all these 710 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 2: people in the industry who were in a position to 711 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: get Charles Manson's career off of the ground. And when 712 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 2: you're dealing with this crazy little ticking time bomb like 713 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 2: Charles Manson, who wants you to do something like get 714 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 2: his musical career off the ground, but you don't think 715 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 2: his music is good enough to actually launch, you've got 716 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 2: a problem on your hands. And Dennis Wilson and his 717 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 2: buddies all knew this. 718 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: Yes, And two quick things here, One big shout out 719 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: to Dennis Wilson's only solo album, Pacific Ocean Blue. 720 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 2: Is it good. 721 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: I think it's great. 722 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 2: I got to check that out. And I love the 723 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 2: Beach Boys. 724 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean he Dennis Wilson was clearly not the brains 725 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: or voice behind the Beach Boys as the drummer, but 726 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 1: he was a sort of I think, kind of picked 727 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: on a little bit for not being the most talented dude, 728 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: and he was just in the band because he was 729 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: handsome and related. But I think Pacific Ocean Blue is 730 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: like one of the great lost classics. 731 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 2: I'll check it out. 732 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 1: It's very good. 733 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 2: He was supposedly also the only true surfer in the band. 734 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And the other thing was that Terry Melcher, 735 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: that producer that you mentioned. The reason he factors in 736 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: so heavily is because he actually lived at the Tate 737 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: House in Beverly Hills before Tate and them moved in. Yeah, 738 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: so that was sort of the connection there. I guess 739 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: Manson was going to kill him, right, No, No. 740 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 2: So here is what a lot of people think. They 741 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 2: think that again, he was sending a message to Terry 742 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 2: Melcher saying, I can't kill you, but I can get 743 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 2: close to you. And I know you're going to hear 744 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 2: about this because this happened at the house you were 745 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 2: living in a month or so before. I'm just going 746 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 2: to go in and have my people into criminentally slaughter 747 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 2: whoever's there. But this is this is you, this is 748 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 2: what's going on. He supposedly was well aware that Terry 749 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 2: Melcher didn't live there any longer, because he'd spoken to 750 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 2: the guy who actually owned the house and was asking 751 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 2: him where Terry Melcher went, and all the guy would 752 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 2: tell him was Malibu, So he knew it wasn't Melcher 753 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 2: in that house. 754 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: In y gotcha, all right? So they eventually leave Dennis 755 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: Wilson's house. Dennis Wilson's like, you guys are great, and 756 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: all the ladies are nice. The acid is decent, but 757 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: it's time for you to go. So they leave in 758 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight still and he they go to Spawn Ranch, 759 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: which you mentioned earlier. SPA h N. And this was 760 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: a it was kind of weird that they ended up 761 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: living here, but it was. It was out in kind 762 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: of the outskirts of LA There are lots of ranches 763 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: like the Disney Ranch or the Universal Ranch where they 764 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: shoot a lot of stuff and they have old sets 765 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: that are still there. Whether it's mash or Planet of 766 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: the aa Apes or just an old West set, and 767 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: Spawn Ranch was one of these that had closed down, 768 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: and it was an old West set and they actually 769 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,280 Speaker 1: it's a state park now, but they did have permission 770 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: to live there. They didn't just squat there. They sort 771 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: of had a little agreement to do a little maintenance 772 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: work and they were allowed to stay. So some of 773 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: them are there, some of them are at places like 774 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 1: at a camp in Death Valley, and then just scattered 775 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: all over La as far as Manson family members and 776 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: just random houses and apartments. But the main place that 777 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,800 Speaker 1: Manson in the Inner Circle was at Spawn Ranch, and 778 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: they would go on what they called creepy crawls, which 779 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: were these little crime spreees would like you said, they 780 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: would go out and burgle cars or rob people and 781 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: just to kind of keep the money and the drugs flowing. 782 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 2: Right, And so Spawn Ranch was almost like a little 783 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 2: more legit. They were in much closer contact with other 784 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 2: people out in Death Valley. At the Barker Ranch that 785 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 2: was far more secluded, way out in the desert, way 786 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 2: more disconnected from society, and that was the place where 787 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 2: they expected to wait out helter skelter while the everybody 788 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 2: else in the country killed one another. 789 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: That's right. 790 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 2: So you've got this whole weirdo family. They're criminals, they're 791 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 2: engaged in prostitution. There's violence, you know, there's physical violence. 792 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 2: But ultimately they kind of resemble hippies here or there, 793 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 2: super counterculture. But things turned dark, and they turned dark 794 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 2: after this seminal thing that happened to the rest of 795 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:43,280 Speaker 2: the world but really really spoke to Charles Manson in particular, 796 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 2: and that was the November twenty second, nineteen sixty eight 797 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 2: release of the Beatles White album. 798 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: All Right, you know what, this is going to be 799 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: a two parter. It's pretty clear. So let's go ahead 800 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: and end this one on a cliffhanger featuring the Beatles. 801 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 2: Right, does that sound good? Yeah? It does. 802 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: Pick back up part two with a wide album. 803 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:06,359 Speaker 2: Let's do it? 804 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 1: All right? All right? 805 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 2: Well, in the meantime, while you guys are chewing over 806 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 2: what Chuck just said, you can send us an email 807 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,720 Speaker 2: the Stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com and as always, 808 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,760 Speaker 2: joined us at our home on the web, Stuff Youshould 809 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,720 Speaker 2: Know dot Com. Stuff You Should Know is a production 810 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. 811 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: For more podcasts, My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 812 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.