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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome Savor production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: Annie Reese and I'm lawing Vocal Bomb, and today we

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Speaker 1: have an episode for you about clothes. We cover some

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Speaker 1: ground in this one that is shore we do. I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is the most I've spent writing about

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Speaker 1: not food on this food podcast in quite a while. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I enjoyed every second of it. I'm very very

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Speaker 1: excited to get into what you were excited about. And listeners,

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Speaker 1: you're just going to have to wait. That's some building. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's also as many of our Spice episodes are pretty

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Speaker 1: upsetting in a colonialism related way. Um, so uh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a mixed bag. Um. And I will say, like

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Speaker 1: I I don't have too much experience with clothes. I

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Speaker 1: know I've had a stuff in there. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just not something I cooked with too often. However,

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Speaker 1: I did need clothes or something, and just through this

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Speaker 1: whole like pandemic and grocery shopping and my my nightmare

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Speaker 1: of a cupboard and pantry, I actually found I was

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Speaker 1: looking for something else, but I found this huge thing

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Speaker 1: of clothes, like whole clothes, like ground clothes, no ground clothes.

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Speaker 1: But okay, it's big, and it must have been the

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Speaker 1: only thing I could find. But I've already rebought clothes

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't find that sair. So now I got

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Speaker 1: a lot of clothes. Yeah, I think some recipes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you use so little of it, especially ground um,

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Speaker 1: that's sufta. Yeah, clothes are one of the things that

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Speaker 1: that in my spice cabinet, especially due to like room

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Speaker 1: eight compilations of spices. I think we have to have

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Speaker 1: like four containers of ground cloves and no one needs

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Speaker 1: no one needs that much ground clothes. We also have

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Speaker 1: at least one container of whole clothes. And it's just

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Speaker 1: it's it's quite it's quite a lot. It's it's an

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Speaker 1: embarrassment of riches. Um. And uh, that's a strong flavor

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Speaker 1: to like you said, yeah, really don't need that much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: after having done all of this reading, I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: like arts and crafts time, let's figure out something out here.

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Speaker 1: I'm so ey talk about that. I mean, it is

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Speaker 1: something I do associate with the holidays, so it's pretty

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Speaker 1: timely for for me at least, and I think for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. You can see our other Spice

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Speaker 1: episodes before we get into this one um, perhaps particularly nutmeg. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of their histories closely intertwined. UM. But I

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Speaker 1: guess that brings us to our question. I guess it does.

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Speaker 1: Cloves what are they? Well? Clothes are a type of

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Speaker 1: spice made of the dried flower bud of a plant,

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Speaker 1: used yes, either whole or ground into a powder dark

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Speaker 1: brown or near black, with like a reddish tint to it.

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Speaker 1: Whole clothes are these um small woody textured things that

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Speaker 1: looks sort of like a like a like a nail

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Speaker 1: or maybe a pin um, usually about a half inch

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Speaker 1: to an inch long, like a centimeter to the Flavor

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Speaker 1: is warm and and yeah, like woodsye um, both a

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Speaker 1: little bit sweet and a little bit bitter and a

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Speaker 1: little bit um cool and numbing on the tongue. It's

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Speaker 1: a it's like it's like mint, but a version of

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Speaker 1: mint that grew up on the beach. I love it. Yeah. Impeachment, impeachment,

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Speaker 1: sure m hm. The plant that it comes from, UM

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Speaker 1: botanical names is a G. M. Aromatic um um. It's

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Speaker 1: a tropical evergreen tree in the Myrtassier family, which contains

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Speaker 1: lots of aromatic plants like the common myrtle and eucalyptus.

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Speaker 1: For example. Clove trees are grown in coastal areas and

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Speaker 1: will reach about to forty ft high that's about eight

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Speaker 1: twelve meters and start producing flowers after about four to

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Speaker 1: six years, but can keep flowering and fruiting for some

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Speaker 1: like eighty years. And these flower buds are collected before

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Speaker 1: they bloom, but after they have developed a bright reddish

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Speaker 1: pink color, and they're picked by hand either as they

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Speaker 1: each mature or or much more economically um, all in

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Speaker 1: one go, after the whole tree more or less has

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Speaker 1: been matured with the application of like a plant or

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Speaker 1: own either way, when you pick them um uh, clove

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Speaker 1: bud will have these four wee petals surrounding a small

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Speaker 1: bulb or ball on top of a of a cylinder

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Speaker 1: of like plant reproductive stuff. And when that butt is dried,

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Speaker 1: the petals will shrink up against that that cylinder of

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Speaker 1: plant reproductive stuff um and back from the ball, which,

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Speaker 1: given the chance, would have bloomed out into into dozens

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Speaker 1: of tiny filaments. It's really pretty. It's like it's like

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Speaker 1: a firework anyway. Yeah yeah uh. But instead all of

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Speaker 1: that potential scent is preserved in this dried cloth bud um.

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Speaker 1: The main set compound in cloves is a eugenome, which

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Speaker 1: was named for a previously accepted botanical name for clothes genus, Eugenia,

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Speaker 1: and similar compounds show up and stuff like basil and

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Speaker 1: the green tops of carrots if you're looking for kind

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Speaker 1: of what at what that tastes like? Yeah? Also more etymology.

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Speaker 1: Ziz a g um. The word that z is a

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Speaker 1: g m um. The currently accepted botanical genus name for

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Speaker 1: clothes is um. Zizz a g super fun word um

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Speaker 1: that's been applied in a number of ways throughout the

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Speaker 1: sciences and arts, but generally means a conjunction of opposing

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Speaker 1: bodies or or like a union of opposites. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: like this a g um, and it was apparently chosen

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Speaker 1: for clothes, uh, for like the most pedestrian reason possible,

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Speaker 1: because of like the way, like the totally not unusual

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Speaker 1: at all way that the leaves are paired across branches

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Speaker 1: on the tree. Perfect so poetic. They're like, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: leaves are sort of, you know, across from each other. Um.

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Speaker 1: The word clove itself comes from from its shape from

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Speaker 1: the Latin for a nail, like a like a nail

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Speaker 1: that you would hammer. Yeah. Um. And also also it's

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Speaker 1: etymologically unrelated to cloves of garlic um, which comes from

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Speaker 1: the Proto Germanic for like cleft or or cloven. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh anyway, anyway, so I I read a lot of

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Speaker 1: weird stuff in this one, and I got excited about

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Speaker 1: all of it. And so now you guys have to

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Speaker 1: listen to it. That's it's our pleasure, great, honor, excellent um,

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Speaker 1: as Annie was saying earlier in the United States. Yes,

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Speaker 1: cloves are perhaps most often part of like a winter

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Speaker 1: holiday recipes both sweet and savory um, and show up

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Speaker 1: right in seasonings for things like mulled wine, hams, cakes, cookies, pies.

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Speaker 1: It's part of pumpkin spice flavoring most of the time. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Used whole clothes sometimes serve a dual flavoring and decorative purpose. Um, like,

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Speaker 1: because they've got that that sort of nail shape, that

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Speaker 1: sort of spike or nail shape, and it's got a

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Speaker 1: pointy end, so you can use it to stud things

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Speaker 1: like hams or oranges um in a in sort of

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Speaker 1: cross hatch designs or other patterns that like are meant

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Speaker 1: to be pretty, but definitely remind me of hell razor

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Speaker 1: a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. When I was running across

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Speaker 1: this in the research, I was like, I feel mixed emotions, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like it's both pretty and like goth is all heck,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna all right, well cool. Um of oranges

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Speaker 1: or other fruit that are that are so studded with

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Speaker 1: clothes are sometimes called amander's um and are used as yeah,

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Speaker 1: like decorative uh air, air fresheners, or air centers. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: more more on that later. Yes, I'm so excited. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited. Um clothes show up in all kinds of products, though. Um.

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Speaker 1: It is a primary ingredient in Worcester shear sauce UM

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Speaker 1: and a frequent spice used in ketchup and pickles, especially

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Speaker 1: like sweeter pickles um um, and soups and stews. It's

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Speaker 1: also used to give a kick to everything from like

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Speaker 1: simple rice dishes to um complex spice blends destined for

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Speaker 1: all kinds of sweet and savory foods and drinks around

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Speaker 1: the world. UM It's frequently in Chinese five spice UM,

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Speaker 1: also in grand massala and Massala chai. Also an ingredient

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Speaker 1: in fu mm hmm. All the good things I love. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, ut um uh it' used in non food

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Speaker 1: items as well. UM shows up a lot in the

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Speaker 1: cosmetic and scent industries as a perfume for perfume or

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Speaker 1: for soaps or whatever. UM also used in tobacco products

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Speaker 1: and UM and this was new to me. UM in

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Speaker 1: the scientific preservation of biological samples. What like, if you're

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Speaker 1: preserving an insect for for a slide mount, um you

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Speaker 1: you want to make you want to make it transparent

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Speaker 1: for viewing on the slide, right, and so so for

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Speaker 1: permanent preservation, UM you would do a clearing step wherein

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Speaker 1: you try to reduce the opacity of the sample. And

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Speaker 1: clove oil. We'll do that. That's why I've I've read

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Speaker 1: like like like people in biological fields speak with UM

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Speaker 1: with like nostalgia about using clove oil and these preparations.

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Speaker 1: They were like the best days, clearing day because everything

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Speaker 1: smells like clothes. Oh. I love that. Also, given pass

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Speaker 1: list of ales that we've read, that's the best reaction

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Speaker 1: to have other than like a knee jerk. I cannot

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Speaker 1: still smell anymore and it's ruined for me. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess speaking of what about the nutrition. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's let's pivot back. Let's pivot back. We are ostensibly

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Speaker 1: a food show. Um uh. And right as we were saying,

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Speaker 1: you're typically not using that much. Um. It is the

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Speaker 1: winter holiday spice that I am the most cautious with.

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Speaker 1: And I like, really like spicy desserts, like I put

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Speaker 1: cayenne pepper in my pumpkin pie, like like I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be like like near near, like I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be like nion savory. Um. So anyway, my point is

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Speaker 1: you clothes wisely, um, and if using whole consider straining

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Speaker 1: out before serving. Although some people like that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: I can't. Again, I cannot tell you what to do. Yeah. Historically,

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Speaker 1: cloves have been used medicinally for a lot of different things, um,

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Speaker 1: some of which have and some of which have not

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Speaker 1: panned out scientifically, UM, cloves are being investigated, particularly for

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Speaker 1: their compounds antioxidant, anti microbial, and antifungal properties, also promising

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Speaker 1: as an insecticide um and maybe maybe even for preventing

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Speaker 1: or treating cancer maybe mm hmmm. Basically it makes sense why,

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Speaker 1: I mean, other than having a flavor that many humans enjoy, UM,

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Speaker 1: clothes have often been used in food preservation. Um. Beyond that, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know saveror saver slogan before consuming a medicinal quantity

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Speaker 1: of anything. You know, just just more research is necessary

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Speaker 1: and human bodies are complicated, so so consult a medical

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Speaker 1: professional who is not us. Definitely not not I. I

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Speaker 1: would like to say, I would love a super cut

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Speaker 1: of the evolution of the savor slogan because I feel

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Speaker 1: like you've grown more and more like tired. Like. Most

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Speaker 1: of that is the fact that I never write it

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Speaker 1: out and so and so like I'll start into it

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Speaker 1: and then I'm like, oh good, what is the savor slogan?

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Speaker 1: How could I recite it every morning when I wake

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Speaker 1: up and every night before I fall asleep, even though

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Speaker 1: it's never me that says it. Um, just in case, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's that's more dedication than I have of so good show,

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Speaker 1: Good show. We really do need like posters or something.

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Speaker 1: I yeah, yes, I'm very like a little like like

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Speaker 1: handheld like devotional that people can carry anyway. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: one more when we're fact about clothes that isn't related

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Speaker 1: to food at all. Um. It's also been studied as

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Speaker 1: anesthesia for fish, like what like if you've got nervous

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Speaker 1: fish in an aquarium situation and you need to transport

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Speaker 1: or handle your nervous fish, I don't know something something

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Speaker 1: clove oil. It's I read a lot of weird stuff

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Speaker 1: about clothes, y'all. Oh, nervous fish, I know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know why that touches my heart. So get you some

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Speaker 1: clove oil. If we need to also, do not just

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Speaker 1: dump clove oil and fish tank. Absolutely don't do that.

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Speaker 1: That's not That's not what I'm recommending either. This is

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Speaker 1: like a sub segment. This is the fine print also

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Speaker 1: for nervous fish consul dif professionals. Fish bodies are complicated. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as as an aquarium owner, um, and I have vertebrates

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Speaker 1: in there now, I feel like I'm really leveling up.

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Speaker 1: They're very small catfish and they're very easy to take

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Speaker 1: care of. But oh, we'll have to get an aquarium

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Speaker 1: update from your Oh man, yeah, maybe I'll maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: take some photos or something and post them to those

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Speaker 1: social media things that I never do anything with. You

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Speaker 1: sometimes do stuff sometimes sometimes. Anyway, keep those messages coming.

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Speaker 1: We you check them. We love hearing from you. Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: we do have some numbers for you. Yeah. Despite the

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Speaker 1: small amounts used at any given time, Americans apparently go

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Speaker 1: through some three point seven pounds that's like one point

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Speaker 1: seven kilos of clothes per person per year UM or

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Speaker 1: we did, as that seems like a lot to me.

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Speaker 1: It does seem like. I don't yeah, I I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess I did in fact check the source. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure. Also, a single kilo of cloves that's about

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Speaker 1: two pounds, might contain ten thousand cloth butts. Wow. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: As of nineteen UM, Indonesia was the top producer, supplying

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Speaker 1: around seventy of the world's supply UM. It was also

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Speaker 1: grown in places like Madagascar UM with another thirteen percent,

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Speaker 1: and currently in much smaller quantities in places like Sri Lanka, um, Tanzania, Kenya,

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Speaker 1: China and Brazil. Around a hundred and eighty thousand metric

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Speaker 1: tons are produced worldwide every year, worth something like four

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in in export value mm hmm, and

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Speaker 1: India imports the most, followed by Saudi Arabia, the UAE,

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Speaker 1: Singapore and Pakistan. As the believed oldest cloak tree located

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Speaker 1: on one of Indonesia's so called spice Islands was estimated

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Speaker 1: to be three four hundred years old. Its name is Afo,

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Speaker 1: and I hope this isn't another this is a bit

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Speaker 1: dated of a source, so I hope another situation where

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Speaker 1: listener rights in is like sorry to tell you, sorry

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Speaker 1: to be the one to let you know, but that

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Speaker 1: tree is dead. We do breaking tree news is important.

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Speaker 1: We want to know, well, be happy, but yeah, please

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Speaker 1: don't worry about being the harbinger of bad tree news. Yes, yes, um,

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Speaker 1: and we're actually going to talk a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about that tree in the history section. We will, but

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Speaker 1: first we are going to get into a quick break

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Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Okay. So, like so many things we talked about,

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Speaker 1: pretty much everything we talked about, um, the origins on

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Speaker 1: this one are difficult to pend down. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's on my my specific and he's going to

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Speaker 1: say this big card. It's like trying to explain Spider

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Speaker 1: Man's origins and reboots and alternate universes to somebody who

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Speaker 1: really has no idea what you're talking about, which I

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Speaker 1: have done on more than one occasion recently. It's on

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Speaker 1: your mind. I understand. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: this one felt like for me, because I was like,

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Speaker 1: but I thought we said in the alright but wait,

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Speaker 1: m yeah, okay, yeah, alright, but alright, given that, according

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Speaker 1: to some sources, clothes originated in the Indonesian Maluku Islands,

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Speaker 1: where it was grown almost exclusively until the seventeenth century.

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Speaker 1: More on that in a minute. Um. The sources are

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Speaker 1: admittedly somewhat limited and or unavailable to me, so that's

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Speaker 1: also caveat. However, other sources suggest that clothes were introduced

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Speaker 1: and used in China centuries earlier, perhaps as far back

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Speaker 1: as the second century BC, both in cuisine and in medicine,

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Speaker 1: and maybe as a breath freshening requirement before meeting the emperor,

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Speaker 1: like you had to do it, okay, alright, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: emperor breath smell like clothes. Sure now that is power right,

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Speaker 1: your breath doesn't smell like clothes. Get out. It was

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Speaker 1: also used as a say it with me now, Pho

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Speaker 1: Dvack records indicate that clothes were in India by the

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Speaker 1: second century CE, and that they showed up in Greek

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Speaker 1: and Egyptian markets in first century CE. UM In the

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Speaker 1: following two centuries Phoenician traders introduced clothes to the Mediterranean,

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Speaker 1: and eventually merchants introduced them throughout Europe. In those early days,

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Speaker 1: Egyptian and Arab writers were just waxing poetic about clothes,

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Speaker 1: and no one at the time was entirely sure where

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Speaker 1: they came from or how they were grown. It was

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Speaker 1: another one of those things like um, like cinnamon writer

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Speaker 1: and urnutmeg, where folks were just like, it's out there

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Speaker 1: in the ocean somewhere and it's a total mystery. Like

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Speaker 1: there was a there was a legend that sailors traded

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Speaker 1: with genies to obtain clothes, Like the sailors would like

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Speaker 1: leave their wares out on the shore at night and

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Speaker 1: then return in the morning to find clothes in place

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Speaker 1: of their wares. Wow. Yeah, Um, no scientific evidence that

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Speaker 1: that's what's going on. Um. There is though archaeological evidence

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Speaker 1: of clothes um in this port in Sri Lanka dating

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Speaker 1: to around a thousand CE, and their presence they're likely

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Speaker 1: means that the trade had brought them from the Maluku

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Speaker 1: Islands that's some seven thousand kilometers like nearly miles um

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Speaker 1: to Sri Lanka UM for further trade out to the

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Speaker 1: Roman Empire or India or the Arabian Peninsula, so they

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Speaker 1: were clearly a very valuable um item if they were

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Speaker 1: if the care was being taken to take them that

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Speaker 1: far um. In India around that time, clothes were associated

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Speaker 1: with Lakshmi Um, the Hindu goddess of of prosperity and

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Speaker 1: beauty and wealth and all that good stuff. Yes, yea.

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Speaker 1: And throughout history, as we said, clothes have been used

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Speaker 1: medicinally for a whole host of things. Clove oil has

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Speaker 1: been used as an antiseptic and anesthetic, like for treating toothaches.

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Speaker 1: Uh and modern research has shown that eugen al does

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Speaker 1: indeed help with the sort of pain that you experience

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Speaker 1: from um from tissue damage like bruises, um and and infections.

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Speaker 1: So uh yeah, not susceptive pain would fall under that

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Speaker 1: category like a like a toothache. Um And clothes were

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Speaker 1: perhaps more popularly um mentioned as a medicine in texts

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Speaker 1: from around that time, but did also appear in the

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Speaker 1: first known Arabic cookbook in the tenth century CE. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and though clothes were becoming increasingly popular in the eighth

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Speaker 1: century in Europe, um the publication of Marco Polo's journals

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Speaker 1: in the thirt undreds marked the first time that many

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Speaker 1: Europeans learned about where their clothes were coming from. Polo

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Speaker 1: described learning about clothes from ports in the East China Sea.

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Speaker 1: In or before four, a commander named Jong Hu formed

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Speaker 1: alliances with Moluccan spice traders, and clothes were a part

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Speaker 1: of that. When Magellan set off to circumnavigate the world

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Speaker 1: in the fifteen hundreds, he left with five ships and

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Speaker 1: a crew of two and fifty men. All that returned

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Speaker 1: was one ship with eighteen people. But they carried with

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Speaker 1: them about fifty tons of nutmeg and clothes. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: this was considered a financial success at the time. In Europe,

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Speaker 1: both spices were worth their weight in gold. Ah, though

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Speaker 1: they were a bit late to the game. The Portuguese

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Speaker 1: secured a monopoly over clothes in the early sixteenth century,

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Speaker 1: a monopoly they held onto for about a century and

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Speaker 1: then yes this finally, this brings us to the seventeenth

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Speaker 1: century um when closed took center stage in Europe's bid

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Speaker 1: to control the world's spices. European traders started noticing clothes

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Speaker 1: in their travels and wanted to find the source and

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Speaker 1: control them. The Dutch desire to control all the trade

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Speaker 1: of clothes so badly that they would set fire to

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Speaker 1: any clove trees they could find not growing on Dutch

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Speaker 1: owned lands. Yeah. The Dutch retains their control until other

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Speaker 1: areas of the world started growing clothes despite their best efforts.

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Speaker 1: In the late eighteenth century. Um and yeah, I remember Afo,

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Speaker 1: the believed oldest clove tree on one of the Indonesian islands.

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Speaker 1: In seventeen seventy, a Frenchman named Poivra stole some seedlings

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Speaker 1: from this tree, and he went on to take some

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Speaker 1: to France, Seychelles Islands and Zanzibar. In eighteen twenty. Plantations

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Speaker 1: used labor of enslaved people in Zanzibar to produce clothes. Uh.

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Speaker 1: By the late eighteen hundreds, with agricultural capacity in the

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Speaker 1: Maluco Islands having been basically hamstrung by the duchess destructive

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Speaker 1: agricultural and cultural practices, Yeah, Zanzibar became the global center

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Speaker 1: of clove production. But a revolution in nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: capping off a couple of decades of disease spread through

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Speaker 1: clove trees by this one species of ant. Like the

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Speaker 1: forties of the nineteen sixties really stopped the growth of

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Speaker 1: Zanzibar's market, and the majority of productions slowly filtered out

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Speaker 1: to Madagascar and then back to Indonesia. Meanwhile, I had

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Speaker 1: to put in a note about this because, as I

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Speaker 1: believe I've mentioned before on this show, I am a

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Speaker 1: goth of a certain age. UM so so UM. Europeans

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Speaker 1: introduced tobacco to this region UM the Indian Ocean region

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Speaker 1: in the early sixteen hundreds, and plantations were established by

355
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Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, and cigarettes were being manufactured there by

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Speaker 1: like the mid eighteen hundreds UM. And the first clove cigarettes,

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Speaker 1: that is cigarettes UM containing tobacco and ground clothes were

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Speaker 1: manufactured in Central Java into Asia around eighteen eighty UM.

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Speaker 1: They were at the time considered a medicinal treatment for

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Speaker 1: sore throats and asthma. Uh. They were definitely not a

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00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: treatment for asthma. Don't do that, um. But they then

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Speaker 1: went international all the way up in the nineteen seventies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I totally forgot about clove cigarettes. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: never really forget about clove cigarettes. I've never been a smoker.

365
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: I've literally never smoked, and um, and I still get

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Speaker 1: nostalgic for clove cigarettes. Uh yeah, anyway. Um. Meanwhile, meanwhile,

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00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: all of this intrigue and violence led to and was

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00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: fueled by UM the popularity of cloves and other spices

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Speaker 1: like nutmeg in Europe. UM. And it was not always

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Speaker 1: for food related purposes as said above. Frequently it was

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Speaker 1: more medicinal. For example, in the late teen through early

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, clothes were widely incorporated into commander's um. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: these were these, these scented personal accessories of varying fanciness. UM.

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Speaker 1: Today we think of them is like a whole fruit,

375
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: but back in the day they were like jewelry. They

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00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: were like maybe carved wooden balls containing some nice smelling

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00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: herbs from your garden, all the way up through some

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00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: like gold or silver filigree, adorned with gems and containing

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Speaker 1: the most expensive spices money could buy. UM. And eventually

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00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: either I couldn't really track it down, but either before

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00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: this or after this or both this turned into just

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00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: having an orange or maybe an apple, studded with clothes

383
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: and wrapped with ribbon. UM. They came up as personal

384
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Speaker 1: accessories during the Bubonic Plague UM, during which a key

385
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: belief was that bad smells caused disease, and good smells

386
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: were protect if we talked about this in our humorous

387
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: episode from way back the day. But the popularity of

388
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: the of the cloth studded orange in particular is sometimes

389
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: attributed to Cardinal Thomas Wolsey of the Tutor era, who

390
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: was written to carry um and was later often depicted

391
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: with in paintings, UM and and other art. This cloth

392
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: studded orange wrapped with red ribbon um. Apparently the oranges

393
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: flesh had been replaced with a sponge soaked in vinegar.

394
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 1: Apparently it smelled really really nice. Uh. Sam Neil carried

395
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: one in the show The Tutors portraying Wolsey, and uh

396
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: note here that this, like I think that this was

397
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: like his way of being like, na, now, y'all, like

398
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: I'm of the people, Like I like, I'm not that fancy,

399
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: but this like earthy version was still pretty much hell

400
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: expensive at the time. Like oranges and clothes and nice

401
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: ribbons were all luxury items. So even though it wasn't

402
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: i don't know, like enameled and everything, it was still

403
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: like okay, okay, yeah, we see you see your fancy

404
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: on the door. At any rate, Um, the fruit versions

405
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: became popular as holiday gifts and or decor Later in

406
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds and into the eighteen hundreds, UM, sort

407
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: of after the personal accessories had fallen out of fashion

408
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: and as UM cloves and other spices became more accessible,

409
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: though they were still reserved for like special occasions like holidays.

410
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Then in the eighteen hundreds, the trade of commercial goods

411
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: like these, you know, at that point, middling ley pricey,

412
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: desirable spices like cloves, really helped spur the growth of

413
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: railroads for shipping and distribution UM in America and and elsewhere.

414
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: And speaking of America, yeah, UM, the accessibility of spices

415
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: for the growing middle class really opened up in the

416
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Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, and so by the nineteen sixties we were

417
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: using about a pound or about half a kilo of

418
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Speaker 1: cloves per year, not like all of America per person. Okay,

419
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Speaker 1: I definitely think people have gotten more adventurous with UM

420
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Speaker 1: spices and UM people do love uh their their winter

421
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: holiday spices. Oh yeah, yeah, it's a it's a very

422
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Speaker 1: nostalgic thing. Yeah. And I did see a bunch of

423
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: these pictures of the oranges with the the cloves in them,

424
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: and I bet it smells nice. Oh they do? Oh

425
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, um, and you can you can just kind

426
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: of kind of hang them up and they'll dry out,

427
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: um and stay very nice smelling um and you know,

428
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: varyingly weird looking for for the whole season. Now, I

429
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: kind of want to see if somebody's done like a

430
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: hail written raiser commander comander pomp is. Wow, I've been

431
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: getting that wrong this whole time. It's okay, Um, the

432
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: word what what one more? Note? The word comes from um,

433
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: from palm and ambergris um or ambergriss um uh, which

434
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: is of course the stomach secretion of whales that was

435
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: collected Yeah, of course as a type of perfumery um

436
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: substance back in the day. Um. And still now I

437
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: just saw it was a shortage of that. Oh it's

438
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: it's mostly artificial at this point. But yeah, of course,

439
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: she says, and palm of course being French for for

440
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: for apple, yeah m yes, yes. And we did talk

441
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: about that kind of the association with oranges in the

442
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: holidays here in Europe in our Orange episode. Yeah, so

443
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: you can also check that one out. But for now,

444
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: that is what we have to say about cloves. It

445
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: is um, we do have some listener amail for you.

446
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: We do, but first we have one more quick break

447
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,

448
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: thank you, and we're back with snow snow Man mm hmm.

449
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: Heller Raiser is too hard to I actually have done

450
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: a Hiller Raiser voice. It's stuff to blow your mind

451
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: and sent me an email and it's of the best

452
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: compliments I've ever given I've ever received. Excuse me, you

453
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: are a perfect cineabyte, especially coming from Robert Lamb. That

454
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: is high praise, praise I recognize, Like I wake up

455
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: every day and I'm like, you're like savor slogan, perfect cinete. Yes.

456
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: I also just was on there and I did a

457
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: voice for Dune. Yeah. Yeah, But I like that we

458
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: took them well. I kind of was like, yeah, let's

459
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: take this could have been a nice winter themed, holiday

460
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: themed listener mail attempt, but it's dead ras because that's

461
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: that's what we're about. That is what we're about. Speaking

462
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: of what we're about, Melissao, Hi ladies. I've been working

463
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: my way through Bob's Burgers and just all this episode,

464
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: Gene confronts the company that makes his favorite chocolate. Annie,

465
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: I always thought you might be a gene, but now

466
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Ps my boyfriend a seventh generation Seriously Kapecker,

467
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: on hearing there was an episode about poutine, immediately asked

468
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: if it was referred to as a Canadian thing or

469
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: a Kuypecuas thing. He felt quite vindicated by the response. Also, also,

470
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: I first encountered smokes routine when I still lived in Ontario.

471
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: It was amazing. Veggie Nacho putine got me through college.

472
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: I was stoked to find out they opened a location

473
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: in Montreal after moving here. But in spite of expanding

474
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: all over Canada, all the smokes franchises in Quebec went

475
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: out of business within a few years. Too much competition

476
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: um opened disdain from the locals towards in Ontario. Who's

477
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: to say for now, I'll have to stick to the

478
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: local stuff. I've had worse problems. You all been writing

479
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: in about the putine you've been getting and I still

480
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: haven't gotten any. And oh no me, neither is reaching

481
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: critical mass? Is we have to solve those. It's like

482
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: the the team for the thermometer, the temperature on thermometer

483
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: forteen Craving is like, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, alright, alright,

484
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: we'll work on it. Um uh. In the meanwhile, Rico wrote,

485
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: My grandma was Mini Zakaria, who was known in New

486
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: Jersey for the large tomatoes that she grew. She won

487
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: the New Jersey state tomato growing championships seven times, and

488
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: her largest tomato, Big Zack, was a whopping six point

489
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: one six pounds. The day of the contest was like

490
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: a holiday in my family. Would get together with all

491
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: of my aunt's uncles and cousins and head to the

492
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: mall for the big event. Attached as a photo of

493
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: me and my grandma. As we were awaiting the results

494
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: of contest, my bowl cut and I had to sneak

495
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: up there. I recall one of her secrets for growing

496
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: such large tomatoes was putting the leftover fish heads from

497
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: what my uncles and grandpa would catch in the soil

498
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: with the seeds. Anyone can order big Zach tomato seeds,

499
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: as Dan stef Island did to grow his former world

500
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: record giant tomato, which weighed eight point six one pounds.

501
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: He also holds the current record at ten point eight pounds,

502
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: but this tomato was from a different strain, apparently a

503
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: Domingo variety. Ironically, I've never been a big fan of

504
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: how tomatoes taste. She would always offer me slices of

505
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: fresh tomato or a cherry tomato, which I would usually decline.

506
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: Every few years, I've tried instead to see if my

507
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: tastes have changed, but each time would reaffirm my unfortunate

508
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,959
Speaker 1: distaste for tomatoes. Nowadays, I don't mind fresh tomatoes mixed

509
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: with other things, like in apraisy salad, but I still

510
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: don't like eating just a tomato. I've been listening to

511
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: your podcast since it started, and although I know there

512
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: was an episode on tomatoes, I don't recall one on

513
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: giant fruits or vegetables. I remember telling her about that episode,

514
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: and she mentioned that she wouldn't mind answering any questions

515
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: or being interviewed by you. Unfortunately, she passed away earlier

516
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: this year, and I regret not contacting you guys sooner.

517
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: So in her honor, I am requesting a podcast episode

518
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: on that very topic. My grandma heavily contributed to the

519
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: book Giant Tomatoes by Marvin H. Meisner. P S. If

520
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: you ever make a podcast of your D and D adventures,

521
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: I'd totally listen to it. And if you haven't heard

522
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: of the Packs Unplugged Gaming Convention in Philly that takes

523
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: place next month, I highly recommend it. Mm hmmm, caniant tomatoes? Yes, please,

524
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: the whole book about giant tomatoes. Okay, alright, cool? Yes, Um,

525
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: we're so sorry for your loss, but so glad that

526
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 1: you have these wonderful memories. Um and ah giant tomatoes. Yes,

527
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: it's too bad you don't like I like, it's one

528
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: of those things like the curse of you had this

529
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: wealth of tomatoes, fresh tomatoes, and your body was like nope,

530
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: I'm trying, like I'm trying to picture the size of

531
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: a of a six plus pound to meato in my

532
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: head and like like my like, like orange cat weighs

533
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: about six maybe seven pounds, so I'm going like, is

534
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: it orange cat sized? This is a measurement of weight

535
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: we should adopt. Absolutely, it's a big tomato, all right.

536
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: And and yes to the D and D Adventures. Um,

537
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: you know who knows, who knows? We definitely have some stories.

538
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: That's fortunately, my heck, my heck we do oh yes

539
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: we do. Um. But in the meantime, thanks to both

540
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: of these listeners for writing in If you would like

541
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: to write to us that you can our emails Hello

542
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: at savorpod dot com. We are also on social media.

543
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at

544
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: savor pod and we do hope to hear from you.

545
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

546
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app,

547
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

548
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Pagan and Andrew Howard.

549
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

550
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: more good things are coming your way. H