1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World one year ago. On 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: July thirteenth, twenty twenty four, Donald J. Trump, then a 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 1: former president of the United States and presumptive nominee of 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: the Republican Party in the twenty twenty four presidential election, 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: survived an assassination attempt while speaking at an open air 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: campaign rally near Butler, Pennsylvania. There are moments that define America. 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: The late afternoon hours of July thirteenth, twenty twenty four 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: was one of them. 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: In her new book Butler, The Untold. 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: Story of the near Assassination of Donald Trump and the 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: Fight for America's Heartland, Selina Zeito writes a narrative of 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: that fateful day and describes the people of the Heartland 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: and the untold story of how the President found his 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: way back into the heart of the electorate. I have 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: to say in welcoming my guest, I've regard her as 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: one of the finest reporters in the country, somebody with 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: unusual knowledge, and as she and I were chatting, somebody 18 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: whose family goes back to the very beginning of Butler, 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: and so her ties to that region are amazing. But 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: on anything, she writes, I personally recommend Selena Zito as 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: a remarkable reporter and a great analyst. 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: Selena, welcome and thank you for joining me on New World. 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, thank you so much. It's such an 24 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 3: automist speaker. I really appreciate you taking time to do this. 25 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of amazing. I didn't realize till 26 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: later that you were only a few feet from President 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Trump when the shots rang out. 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: I mean, what was that like? 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: Well, in that moment, people often say when they are 30 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 3: in a tragic situation or they're in a perilous situation, 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 3: the time slows down, and that was also the case 32 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 3: for me, and I remember thinking everything is happening in layers. 33 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: That's what it felt like. That's the only way I 34 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: can describe it. When I saw him again, I'm just 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: a few feet away. I had just seen him six 36 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: minutes earlier in what's called the click area, which is 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: behind the stage. It's a curtained off area. It's a 38 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: place where the President shakes hands, gives a lot of 39 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: hogs to state troopers, paramedics, firemen, right the people that 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 3: serve the community. And I was supposed to fly to 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: Bedminster with him along with my daughter to do an 42 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 3: interview with him about Pennsylvania, and he just wanted to 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: say hi. Well, because we were backstage and I can 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 3: hear the Lee Greenwood music starting up, they made my 45 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 3: daughter and myself just go in the buffer. The buffer 46 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: is the area that surrounds the stage, so that's why 47 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 3: we were just feet away. In fact, if you look 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 3: at the covered Butler took that photo and it have 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 3: a lot of significance to it. There's a reason I 50 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: chose one that didn't have his face. I chose one 51 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: that showed him looking at the people there and them 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: looking back at him. And that's really at the heart 53 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: of the entire journey of this book, not just that moment, 54 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: but the rest of the campaign and what happens going forward. 55 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: I have to ask, how old is your daughter? 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 3: Thirty eight? 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: Oh, this must have been there. She was a mom 58 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 2: at the center of history. 59 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a photo journalist. We do a lot of 60 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: work together. She's also the mother of my four grandchildren. 61 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 3: So we follow him out. She's taking the photos. I'm 62 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 3: doing video just with my phone. People look at my 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 3: Twitter account that day they can see that. And then 64 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 3: we make our way off to the side of the podium, 65 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 3: and he does two things that he never does. A 66 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 3: chart comes down, and I remember turning to my daughter 67 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: and saying, you will totally get this. I mean, what 68 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: does he think he is ross pro? Why does he 69 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: have this chart? If he ever has a chart, the 70 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 3: chart is on the other side, and it's at the end. 71 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 3: But that is also a very rare occurrence. And then 72 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: he turns his neck away from the people at the rally. 73 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: Why is that significant? If you've ever watched in great 74 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 3: detail to a Trump rally on television, or you've ever 75 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: attended one, the relationship between him and the people attending 76 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: is very transactional. They feed off of him, he feeds 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: off of them, and they all show respect to each 78 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: other by never turning away from each other. And he 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 3: turns to his neck away from the rally. It's in 80 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: those moments that four pops go right over my head. 81 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: I know immediately it's gun shots a gun owner. And 82 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 3: I remember in the moment watching him grow I have 83 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: his ear, seeing the blood and seeing the Secret Service 84 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: rush him right in a protective stance. I remember thinking 85 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: I have purpose here. I am a journalist. God gave 86 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: me a gift, and I'm a witness to history, and 87 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: I need to be on top of my game. I'm 88 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: never thinking I'd be writing a book about it, but 89 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 3: knowing that I had to chronicle it as a journalist 90 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 3: and be responsible. So I stood there. I didn't get down, 91 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 3: and as the Secret Service are surrounding him, the second 92 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 3: round of gunfire goes over our heads. But he is 93 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 3: now protected. I mean, they're putting their life in front 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: of him at this moment, and I am watching him 95 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 3: kneel down on his own, So I calculate, Okay, in 96 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: this moment, I at least know that he is not 97 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: gravely hit. I see the blood, but I know that 98 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: he was able to get down on his own. He 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 3: didn't get knocked down, he didn't fall down, he didn't collapse. 100 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: After the second round goes out. Michelle Picard the third 101 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: he was the President's campaign advance man for the event. 102 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 3: He just takes me down and lays on top of 103 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: me in a protective stance. In doing that, I'm just 104 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 3: in this unique position where I can see the President's 105 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 3: face through the feet of the Secret Service. I can 106 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: see him moving, I can see him talking. I can 107 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 3: hear him talking. I have my recorder on, so I 108 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 3: also have it, and I have my recorder on, because 109 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 3: when I go to a Trump rally, oftentimes I find 110 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 3: them to be covered without nuance, without context, and so 111 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 3: his words are used flatly as opposed to missing the 112 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: nuance of when he says it. Missing the cadence was 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: when he says something, and so I always recorded any ways, 114 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 3: and I hear them talking, I understand the shooter is down. 115 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: That's when Michelle Leicard finally gets off of me. That 116 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: is when I hear him talking about his shoes, which 117 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: I can laugh about now, but it's kind of funny. 118 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: He's insistent that he gets his shoes on. Why are 119 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: his shoes off? When they surrounded him, they knocked his 120 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: shoes off. The crowds start shouting USA, he mouths it, 121 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: I can't hear his voice. Project. He gets up on 122 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: his own and he still surrounded and they want to 123 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: take him off stage, and he goes, wait, wait, wait, 124 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: He turns around and says, fight, fight, fight. Now you 125 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: have to think about that moment. People wonder, why do 126 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: you do that? Well, you'll find out in the book 127 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: the next day and we can talk about it why 128 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: he did actually do it. But you also, if you're 129 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: watching the video of it, the crowd's comportment completely changes, 130 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 3: and there is a calmness there you would not likely 131 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: expect when you see a president's shop before your eyes 132 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 3: in front of fifty thousand people. But the way that 133 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: the people comported themselves, the way that they exited, is 134 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: something that is very underreported and very powerful. And even 135 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 3: in the hours afterwards, they didn't let us go for 136 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,119 Speaker 3: two hours. The parking lot. If there's fifty thousand people there, 137 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 3: there's at least fifteen to twenty thousand cars, right, maybe 138 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 3: people goes and twos or threes, whatever. And so they're 139 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: out there in that big old farm field, and you 140 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 3: were born in Pennsylvania, you know exactly what that Abalachian 141 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 3: farmfield is like. They're out there, hugging each other, giving 142 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 3: each other water, people at coolers were sharing food, they 143 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: were singing. It was all very very beautiful moment, which 144 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: is why I take issue with an interview that was 145 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 3: done the other day with Chuck Dodd where he was 146 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 3: saying a reporter who covered it said he had PTSD 147 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 3: from this crowd. I don't know what crowd he was seeing, 148 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 3: but it certainly wasn't the crowd that attended that event. 149 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: I think that's a crazy comment. 150 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: I have other words, but this is a family say them. 151 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: So. At that moment, though, you're seeing the president walk 152 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: off and what I think is one of the most 153 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: iconic moments in American campaign history. I went that night 154 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: on Hannadhim talked about the notion that this was a 155 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: providential event because if he turned one second later, he'd. 156 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: Have been dead. 157 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. 158 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: His courage and his self awareness in immediately coming back 159 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: and chanting fight, fight, fight with a raised fist. That 160 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: was astonishing. What was your reaction in real time as 161 00:09:59,640 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: you were the. 162 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: Nothing surprised me in that moment, like in the way 163 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: he handled that nothing. People will find out in the 164 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 3: book many details that they don't know about that. He 165 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 3: called me the next morning, bright and early, and he 166 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 3: calls me and says, Selena, this is President Donald Trump. 167 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 3: Almost like laughed because like, of course you are President 168 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, right, who doesn't know that voice? But before 169 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: I could even say a word, he said, I want 170 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: to make sure that you and your daughter are okay. 171 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: Wow. 172 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: And I really apologize for not being able to do 173 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: that interview with you. 174 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: Wow. 175 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 3: And I store like a truck driver and said, are 176 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: you bleeping kidding me? Sir, you've just been shot. I'm 177 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: not worried about an interview. He would go on to 178 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 3: call me seven times that day. 179 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: Wow. 180 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: We had some very very profound discussions, just two people talking, 181 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: trying to figure out what happened, why it happened, why 182 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 3: he did what he did, God and faith and purpose. 183 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 3: I suppose if I were a better reporter, I would 184 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 3: oppressed him. I could tell he was going through something 185 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 3: and he needed to talk to someone who was there, 186 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 3: not family members. Family members aren't going to understand this 187 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: because they love him, but they weren't there. And he 188 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 3: and I have mutual respect for each other because of 189 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: the way he treats the people in the middle of 190 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 3: the country, and he knows me. I've interviewed him dozens 191 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 3: of times. I led him because I needed it too, 192 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: to just figure things out. I wasn't supposed to be 193 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 3: where he was either, right, I was supposed to interview 194 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: him earlier than day. I wasn't supposed to be standing 195 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: a few feet away from him. The conversations centered on purpose, 196 00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 3: on faith, on God, on what his obligation is. Because 197 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 3: he was spared, and the last thing we talked about. 198 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 3: I asked him, I said, I gotta ask you, Sarah, 199 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: why'd you say fight, fight, fight? And he said, you know, Selena. 200 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 3: To be honest, I wasn't Donald Trump in that moment. 201 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: I was representing everything about the country and the presidency, 202 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 3: and I had an obligation to show strength and that 203 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 3: we will endure and that we will go on and 204 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 3: nothing will take us down. And I needed to represent 205 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: that grit, that American exceptionalism because I knew if I didn't, 206 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 3: it could have dire consequences for the people that are there, 207 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 3: but also people in the country. I needed to project 208 00:12:48,040 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 3: that strength, and that's why I did it. 209 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: I talked with Speaker Johnson, who happened to be Admiral 210 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: Largo when the second shooter was discovered at the golf course, 211 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: and he was there when they came in to tell 212 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: him that there was a second potential shooter, and Mike 213 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: told me that they went off to a private room 214 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: and they prayed for about two hours. Don't you think 215 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: this was a transformative event for Trump himself? 216 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: I have seen it in him every day and people 217 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 3: will say, well, he's this, well, he's that, and I 218 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: will argue that there is a profound difference in him 219 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: in the way that he has conducted his presidency in 220 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 3: terms of understanding that every single second of every day 221 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: counts and he has to get things done to preserve 222 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: the country and to make the country strong. But I've 223 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 3: also seen moments of faith that a lot of people 224 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 3: don't see. On Wednesday, I mean Pittsburgh, we have this 225 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: extraordinary energy conference and I'm set to interview the President. 226 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: While first before then it ends up happening to be after. 227 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 3: I think he and I have this thing that it 228 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 3: happens like that, right, And we're doing the interview, and 229 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: I'm with the photographer. I'm not going to use his 230 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: name protect his privacy, but I went with the photographer 231 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 3: that I use almost all the time outside of my 232 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: daughter to photograph the president. What would do the interview. 233 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 3: He's a very good photographer and President knows him as well. 234 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: Before the interview, the photographer tells me that his father 235 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 3: has been diagnosed with a terminal illness and his father 236 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: loves President Trump. And I have a copy of my 237 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: book with me, so at the end of the interview, 238 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: I said, it's the President. I need to ask you 239 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: a favor. Hees, Zito, you never asked me a favor, 240 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 3: and I said, I know, sir, but my photographer, who 241 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: you know very well, his father had received some bad 242 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: health news and he's a really really big fan of yours, 243 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 3: and I suspect that this would lift his spirits if 244 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 3: you sign my book. President takes his kind of course, 245 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: I'll sign your book. And as he signs the book, 246 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: he looks up at the photographer and you could tell 247 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: that the photographer is very emotionally reacted to this, and 248 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 3: he said, look, get that video thing rolling. I'll do 249 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 3: you one better, and he does this beautiful moment, a 250 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 3: video message to the photographer's father, and the first thing 251 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: he says is you have a good boy. Now what 252 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 3: father doesn't want to hear that about their son. Your 253 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 3: son worked hard. I see him working hard all the time. 254 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 3: That alone was profound because that's a father talking to 255 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: another father. And then he says God works in ways 256 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: we don't and always understand, so have faith. And I 257 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 3: look forward to meeting you. And I looked up and 258 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: you've been in those clique rooms, right, it's mostly staff 259 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 3: and secret service. And there was not a dry eye 260 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 3: in that room. And so when people ask me about 261 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: faith and God and the President, and they are very 262 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 3: skeptical of it, I always remind them that your belief 263 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 3: in a higher power, your belief in God, doesn't mean 264 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: you have to go around and shout it. Sometimes for 265 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 3: people it's very very private, but it is always profound 266 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 3: and meaningful. 267 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 2: I want to take you back. 268 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: In my limited experiences with President Trump, I've shared almost 269 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: one hundred percent of what you have said about him, 270 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: in the ways he's not understood by. 271 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: The elite media. 272 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: I want to take you right back to Butler. I mean, 273 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: you're an eyewitness to history. I've never seen this Secret 274 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: Service look more incompetent than they did in that whole 275 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: experience with this guy who apparently wanders in with a 276 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: rangefinder then wanders back in later. The whole notion that 277 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: they didn't cover the roof because it was too sloped, 278 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: the excuses just strike me as being almost something from 279 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: a comedy movie. 280 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 3: I mean, we had congressmen days afterwards climbing up on 281 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 3: that sloped roof who are not spring chickens. Our men 282 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 3: and women in the field are very fit people. Right, 283 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 3: There's several things that went wrong First of all, there 284 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 3: is this archaic role in the Secret Service that former 285 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 3: presidents and or candidates do not get the same amount 286 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: of protection that the current president has. Now, that's kind 287 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 3: of silly. Donald Trump at that time was very different 288 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: than Jimmy Carter right, or Bill Clinton, or George W. 289 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: Bush or Barack Obama. He's in the middle of a campaign, 290 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 3: he is the presumptive nominee. We're in a polarizing world, 291 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 3: and he's getting essentially the same kind of protective stance 292 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 3: that any other former president would get. Well, they're not 293 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: doing rallies. And well, Barack Obama every once in a 294 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 3: while will do a rally, but they're not doing rallies. 295 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 3: We are in a very polarizing time. There are times 296 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 3: when leadership needs to make decisions that go outside of 297 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: rules that don't meet the moment. The other problem is 298 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 3: there was no communication between local law enforcement and the 299 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: Secret Service. Now, you and I both know that a 300 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 3: local law enforcement member man or woman, they know their 301 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 3: hometown and all the nooks and cranny and all the 302 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 3: places where all the vulnerabilities, more so than even the 303 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 3: most studied agent who would possibly miss something that's a 304 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 3: potential threat. I remember pulling up to the event, and 305 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 3: when you're a journalist, you've got to be there so early. 306 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 3: And I remember pulling up and looking up at the 307 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 3: water tower. I didn't look just up, but I also 308 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: looked down to see if someone was just protecting the 309 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 3: access to the water tower. Because the water tower, which 310 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 3: sort of loomed not that far away over the farm 311 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 3: field the ladder to go up, you couldn't see that 312 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 3: from the vantage point. So I remember thinking, they'll get 313 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: to that later. I mean, someone either needs to be 314 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 3: at the bottom or someone needs to be up there, 315 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 3: because this is a big vulnerability. And I didn't think 316 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 3: about it again. But there's so many outcroppings of trees 317 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 3: that's rounded this farmfield. There's so many outbuildings, right this 318 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 3: is a farm show where people show things livestock in 319 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 3: different buildings, and they're peppered all across the place, and 320 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: there were a lot of them that weren't covered, including 321 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: the one that Thomas Matthew Crooks climbed on top of. 322 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: Do you think that was just a bureaucratic error. 323 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 3: I think it had a lot to do with leadership decisions. 324 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 3: I struggled to think of the men and women who 325 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 3: were in the field that day, not the decision makers, 326 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: but the guys who do the field work. I struggled 327 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 3: to believe that they made that decision. 328 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: Who are without Adele, the most astute and insightful student 329 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: of sort of Middle American relations to Donald Trump? 330 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 2: And you caught this rhythm, I. 331 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: Think, very early for his entire career, all the years 332 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: we've now known him. And you describe at one point 333 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: this trip you took with him a couple of weeks 334 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: before Butler, where he's just wandering around small towns. I 335 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: have a sense that, probably more than any other reporter 336 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: in the country, you have a sense of the rhythm 337 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: of what's behind all this. 338 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 3: Yes, so a lot of the theme throughout the book, 339 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: and it's a theme the journalists that live in DC 340 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 3: or New York miss, But I would also say strategist 341 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 3: and polsters miss. And that is a sense of place 342 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: and how that impacts how people vote. Most Americans, eight 343 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 3: out of ten live within fifty miles of where they 344 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 3: grew up. They have a profound connection to place. It 345 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 3: is a context and a meaningfulness that is very, very 346 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 3: missed by strategists, posters, some Republicans in all Democrats and 347 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 3: the news media because people tend to vote place and 348 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: their connection to place as opposed to the way people 349 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 3: that are the placelest. So what do I mean by that? 350 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 3: So the place lists are people that live in places 351 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 3: like DC or New York and not saying they're bad 352 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 3: or worse, but they don't know anyone that is tied 353 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 3: to their community that believes that there is more value 354 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: in being able to have Sunday Supper with their grandparents 355 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 3: than their grandchildren and their parents. And people they went 356 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 3: to grade school in high school with then getting an 357 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: extra bonus or a new car every year. That's their power. 358 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 3: Their power is experiencing the same things that their grandparents did, 359 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: but also being able to pass that legacy onto their 360 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 3: children and grandchildren. And people that live in DC and 361 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 3: New York tend to not know people that value that, 362 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 3: so they don't know how to cover it. And Donald 363 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 3: Trump has always had a very good understanding of place 364 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 3: and placelessness. Are cultural curators? What do we mean by that? 365 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: The people that curate what we see on television, what 366 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 3: we see in Hollywood, what we see in government institutions, academia. 367 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: They're highly concentrated in these super zip codes in this 368 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: country and newsrooms, and they don't know and understand what 369 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: drives your average voter. That's how they missed that Black voters, 370 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 3: Hispanic voters, Asian voters voted together because they're voting for 371 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 3: the betterment or their family and their community and that 372 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: continuity as opposed to voting for the next social justice issue. Right, 373 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 3: that's that detachment that the Democrats have experienced, that President 374 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 3: Trump has recognized is a currency for these voters. 375 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. 376 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: And I think your understanding of that, which I picked 377 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: up on I think as early as twenty fifteen, you 378 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: just got the rhythm and you understood it. But now 379 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you a totally off the wall question. 380 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 1: Young person walks in and says to you, I'm thinking 381 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: about becoming a journalist. 382 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 2: What would you tell them. 383 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 3: Work for a local newspaper, cover the water authority, cover 384 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 3: the school board, get the cops, reporter beats, cover the 385 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 3: things that really matter to people. Don't jump from college 386 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: to Washington, DC, because you will not have the ability 387 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 3: to understand people. You will not been sat at a 388 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: school board meeting and understand what really drives people votes, 389 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: What really drives people's sentiments, what places them either as 390 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 3: a Republican or Democrat to cause decisions made by local politics. 391 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 3: It is an unsexy, unglamorous way to hone your craft. 392 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 3: And you're not going to be on TV. Being on TV, 393 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 3: it shouldn't be your driving force. You should learn from 394 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 3: the very bottom. If you want to be a good journalist. 395 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: Is it a fulfilling profession? 396 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely. I mean I think anybody that reads me 397 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 3: or is listening to others podcasts knows that I am 398 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 3: so grateful and so honored. People open up their door 399 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: at their house to me to let me stand on 400 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 3: the soccer fields and talk to them. Let me go 401 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 3: to their covered dish dinners and the Lutheran charges, bowling alleys, diners, 402 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 3: small businesses, let me go in a coal mine. It 403 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 3: is an honor to tell their stories. That's my job. 404 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 3: That's the joy I get. 405 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: There's sort of I don't overdo it, but in the way, 406 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: you're kind of a poet of the American experience. You 407 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: pick up the language, you pick up the rhythm, you 408 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: sense those unique intersections that make us an amazing country. 409 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: You're a great, great tribute to the professional. 410 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 3: That is such an honor to hear you say that 411 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 3: the book is number one on the New York Times 412 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 3: bestseller list. And it's not because of me, it's because 413 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 3: of all those people. That's also President Trump opening up 414 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 3: with me in a very raw, very emotional way, not 415 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 3: just on the next day, throughout the campaign and even today, 416 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 3: allowing me to be able to tell his story as 417 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 3: much as I'm allowed to tell the American people's story. 418 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 2: Well, you're amazing. I want to thank you. 419 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: I regard you as a friend, not just as a 420 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: colleague in the business of self government. 421 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 2: I want to thank you for joining me your. 422 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: New book book Butler, The Untold Story of the near 423 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Hardland. 424 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: It's available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. I 425 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: encourage everyone to get a copy. And I have to tystling. 426 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled that you would take this amount of 427 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: time and talk with me. 428 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it was an honor to be with you. 429 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 2: Thank you to my guests, Selena Zito. 430 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: You can get a link to buy her new book, Butler, 431 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: on our show page at newsworld dot com. Newsworld is 432 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: produced by Gaingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 433 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork 434 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks 435 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: to the team at Gingrishtree sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 436 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to up a podcast and both 437 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: rate us with five stars and give us a review 438 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 439 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: listeners of Newsworld can sign up for my three three 440 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: weekly columns, I Gangwish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. 441 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: I'm new Ganglish. This is newts Work.