Speaker 1: M hm. The nineties. Uh, arguably arguably the greatest team
Speaker 1: ever symboled in nineteen ninety two. Your coach is the coach.
Speaker 1: And even at twelve years old, I knew the world
Speaker 1: knew you were missing from that team. Yeah, talked to
Speaker 1: us about that. Well, you know the last dance told
Speaker 1: you that somebody who said they didn't want me on
Speaker 1: the team. Do you really believe he was a secret meeting. Well,
Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying there was no secret meeting, right,
Speaker 1: So it just sound like it's just one guy said,
Speaker 1: that's the way meeting of mine. That's the way it
Speaker 1: sounding like. You know, and if and if that's how
Speaker 1: you fell on it, right, don't don't. Don't you know,
Speaker 1: I own it. That's how you felt, you know, own it.
Speaker 1: If you didn't feel that way, didn't clean it up.
Speaker 1: So I didn't make the team. That was the first
Speaker 1: time that I didn't make a team in my life.
Speaker 1: I never felt the sting of getting cut. Right, So
Speaker 1: when we all tried for a team, you go and
Speaker 1: they put the they put the names on the wall,
Speaker 1: and you look and you see if you made it. Well,
Speaker 1: I was always on the team. This is the first
Speaker 1: time I didn't make a team, and did that sting?
Speaker 1: Did that hurt? Absolutely? Did? I want to be on
Speaker 1: the team right, But I didn't make it? Now? Was
Speaker 1: I mad? Was I upset? Probably went through all of
Speaker 1: those ranges of emotion. But then you know again, I'm
Speaker 1: from the West side of Chicago, so it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you didn't make it. What you don't do? What's next?
Speaker 1: You can cry about it or you can you know,
Speaker 1: move on with your life. So I just kept moving on.
Speaker 1: I watched every game, I rooted for the USA to win.
Speaker 1: I had won the gold medal in seventy nine, I
Speaker 1: made the Olympic team in eighty that was boycotted, and
Speaker 1: was hoping that I would make this one. I didn't
Speaker 1: make it. I didn't know why I didn't make it,
Speaker 1: But did I do? I feel like I should have
Speaker 1: been on it, absolutely, But let me say this, me
Speaker 1: not making it has has given me more pub than
Speaker 1: if I wouldn't have made it, you know, on the
Speaker 1: good side. So there's always some good and some bad way,
Speaker 1: you know. So I like the fact that you know
Speaker 1: the people acknowledge, even though if the institutions didn't acknowledge,
Speaker 1: we know the people acknowledge that I should have been
Speaker 1: on the team, and you know, so I'm good with that.
Speaker 1: Jordan rules. You went two titles. Mike is starting to catch,
Speaker 1: you know, get some steam with his team. Explained to
Speaker 1: the Jordan. Explain what the Jordan rules are and where
Speaker 1: it came from. What that is? John Sally told us
Speaker 1: his version of yeah, yeah, yeah, and it and it's
Speaker 1: pretty simple. Now, we had rules for everybody. Okay, we
Speaker 1: were we were a disciplined team. We had rules and
Speaker 1: we followed rules, we followed orders. This is what we
Speaker 1: at ten point plan. This is what we did. This
Speaker 1: is how we act, this is how we walked. This
Speaker 1: is what we do. So we had rules for magic,
Speaker 1: we had rules for Kareem, we had rules for Bird.
Speaker 1: Just like y'all go into a locker room. The rules
Speaker 1: for everybody, right, So Jordan rules. Jordan was a reluctant passer.
Speaker 1: He didn't liked the pass and he was the first
Speaker 1: volume shooter. So he wasn't like a like now you
Speaker 1: see kids that got great handles. In all that, he
Speaker 1: didn't have great handles, couldn't go left right, and if
Speaker 1: he went left more than two or three times, he
Speaker 1: had to pick it up. So the rules are very simple.
Speaker 1: Left side of the floor, sent him left, right side
Speaker 1: of the floor, send him left. In the middle, sent
Speaker 1: him left. Now when he's going left, we wanted the
Speaker 1: trap to be visible. Right, So I'm going left and
Speaker 1: the first person that he sees now is running at him,
Speaker 1: and you, as a defender, your job is to take
Speaker 1: away his right hand because now, as a passer, we
Speaker 1: want that ball going in the air. And if that
Speaker 1: ball goes in the air, we're quick enough to rotate
Speaker 1: and get back and match up. So as that defender
Speaker 1: leaves to come trap off the baseline or from the top.
Speaker 1: Second defender, your job is to rotate to cover. Now
Speaker 1: we want that pass scoring in the air cross court.
Speaker 1: Jordan didn't want to pass, so what would he do.
Speaker 1: He would shot and guess what he would do. He
Speaker 1: would miss. Okay, now he would be you know, we
Speaker 1: didn't mind if he was nine for twenty six. We
Speaker 1: didn't mind if he was ten for thirty. Now the
Speaker 1: newspaper were right, he scored twenty seven, but we would say, okay,
Speaker 1: you know he was ten for thirty. Now, mind you,
Speaker 1: there were a couple of games he was twenty for
Speaker 1: twenty five. He wouldn't always ten for thirty. But here's
Speaker 1: what this was the key though, by him being a
Speaker 1: volume shooter. So this stuff they talk about analytics right
Speaker 1: now and all this other stuff. Okay, that was the
Speaker 1: Detroit Pistons. Okay, how many possessions you're gonna have in
Speaker 1: the game. Okay, it's gonna be ninety five, is gonna
Speaker 1: be one hundred, it's gonna be eighty, is gonna be
Speaker 1: eighty five? Right, our job was to limit the possessions.
Speaker 1: And if we can shut down the possessions, Okay, Jordan,
Speaker 1: instead of you're taking thirty shots this game, right, you're
Speaker 1: only gonna get twenty five. But here was the key,
Speaker 1: Scotty who normally gets twelve or thirteen shots because he's
Speaker 1: a reluctant passer. This game, Scotty, you're only gonna get
Speaker 1: seven shots, and you know this one over here, horrors, Grant,
Speaker 1: you might get three shots. And by the way, those
Speaker 1: shots that you're taken and that you're getting, they're gonna
Speaker 1: be at the end of the shot clock. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be somebody running at you. And and now right your
Speaker 1: field goal percentage. Right, So this is where we said
Speaker 1: we were mentally, like you know, we we take your
Speaker 1: little brain and just twist it and tell you fucking
Speaker 1: fall off. Right. That's that's that's so. Now when you're
Speaker 1: looking at that statuet and your field goal percentage, it's
Speaker 1: thirty seven and it ain't forty five, right, you know
Speaker 1: that mess with you. Right, So now you're looking at
Speaker 1: your field goal percentage and your field goal percentage it's
Speaker 1: thirty seven. And now we you know, you play games
Speaker 1: with people out on the court. Eight I'm you know,
Speaker 1: bj I'm gonna leave you open, right, he ain't gonna
Speaker 1: even thirty you right, right, you go down there and
Speaker 1: double he shoot right, and then you come back and say,
Speaker 1: he ain't got to guard you. So those type of
Speaker 1: mental games you play with the team and and if
Speaker 1: I can break trust and one person you got him,
Speaker 1: well I don'na beat you. So those were the Jordan rules.
Speaker 1: Now Jordan goes to the basket. Let's say he beats
Speaker 1: all the double teams. Right now, he gets to the basket.
Speaker 1: The NBA at that time wanted to market the dunk,
Speaker 1: right and understanding their marketing plan, the Lakers, the Celtics,
Speaker 1: it was bird shooting, it was magic passing. It was
Speaker 1: kareem hooking. Now they come with the marketing plan that
Speaker 1: we want to market the dunk. Everybody got to fly
Speaker 1: in the air. Remember when y'all were growing up. How
Speaker 1: high can you dunk? How do you got a dunk?
Speaker 1: You got dunk this way right now they market into
Speaker 1: three point shot. Man. You can come down and do
Speaker 1: a zach lavine dunk between your legs, float in the
Speaker 1: air and all this other stuff. And they do that.
Speaker 1: Somebody shooting three. So the marketing right, So understanding the
Speaker 1: marketing plan, we ain't gonna let you dunk. Guess what
Speaker 1: when you come to the hole and you've heard this
Speaker 1: from all your coaches, don't give up the dunk. Were
Speaker 1: gonna file you and put you on the file line.
Speaker 1: So when we would file him and put him on
Speaker 1: the fire line, he would cry real files too. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: what I was getting real files too? Yeah, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: it one like one like he was the only one
Speaker 1: getting real, getting real back then everybody was getting filed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Michael snatched rama side of the air. Bird was fine
Speaker 1: on doctor Jay. I'm sorry Doctor Jay was flying on bird,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was the big guy that
Speaker 1: the talk got of elbow. You not call him alone.
Speaker 1: It was another right car, right car, right, yes, ye,
Speaker 1: all right, you still owe my lit or. I got
Speaker 1: my lip m like I like to fight, So you
Speaker 1: go back and you slow that down. You know, my
Speaker 1: little left hand was up in there, and I went
Speaker 1: to plant, and I'm glad I slipped because I went
Speaker 1: to plant. And when I went to plant, he was
Speaker 1: still rushing, and by him being big and coming in,
Speaker 1: I'm right on that chin. Nah. Now, I was gonna
Speaker 1: drive that nose bone right up to his brain. I
Speaker 1: was coming, man, and I slipped. And when I slipped
Speaker 1: right then you will see me just rush up into him, right,
Speaker 1: So I just run up into his chest. So he
Speaker 1: came like swinging hit me and then they break it up.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, so so Oakley, right, he gets traded
Speaker 1: because they say Chicago weren't tough enough, so they went
Speaker 1: and got Cartwright. So they traded Oakley to New York.
Speaker 1: Go get caught right, and you know cart Right, he
Speaker 1: throw some bowls. He caught me. I ain't gonna lie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I was getting hards. Grant hords. Grant was hitting
Speaker 1: me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they was
Speaker 1: laying wood. Man, I mean they was laying hard wood.
Speaker 1: But but Jordan was. He was the only one to
Speaker 1: steal crying today. They hit it. It was dirty. Look
Speaker 1: look what they did. They show you all the clips, right,
Speaker 1: they show you all a few video clips and tell
Speaker 1: the world it's how they played. They don't never show
Speaker 1: you the game. Have you seen the Chicago Bulls Detroit
Speaker 1: Pistons basketball game? Any of y'all fans, they'll show you
Speaker 1: the game. They'll show you the few video clips because
Speaker 1: they got to keep this thing going, but show how
Speaker 1: we really played. Everybody got filed. There's a guy during
Speaker 1: that time got hit harder and more times than Isaiah
Speaker 1: Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it,
Speaker 1: but I ain't never cry. I just got up, went
Speaker 1: to the fire line. But you know he went to
Speaker 1: the league office. You know they wrote newspaper articles about it.
Speaker 1: You're sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man,
Speaker 1: we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. Y'all played.
Speaker 1: There was Tim Duncan rules, Bryan rued. So don't don't
Speaker 1: make it sound like a rule. Don't get crossed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't make it sound like it was yeah, yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Don't make it sound like it was something really special
Speaker 1: for him. Oh that we had a defensive philosophy for
Speaker 1: everybody we played in and his was okay, send them
Speaker 1: to the foul line, make him make free though he
Speaker 1: was eighty five from the line, we had a better
Speaker 1: chance to him missing the free through which he didn't
Speaker 1: miss that many. But that dunk, that's a for sure too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So and momentum again, so you know possessions, you know,
Speaker 1: shot clocks. I don't know, you keep trying to go
Speaker 1: up with dunk four quarter. You tied them shot short,
Speaker 1: tell me about it. And by the way, guess what
Speaker 1: we said real screens. Yeah, yeah, we said screens on offense. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody getting picked, but then there's some people
Speaker 1: who get picked harder. Right, So if you if your
Speaker 1: head ain't on the swivel down there, that's part of
Speaker 1: the game. Now, lockoff. So that so don't don't again,
Speaker 1: don't make it like something that it really was. But
Speaker 1: you know, as basketball players, we understand that because if
Speaker 1: you've been in the playoffs, you have you you do
Speaker 1: game players of different strategies for each team, and each
Speaker 1: you have rules for star players. So but I also
Speaker 1: like being able to explain it because this is the
Speaker 1: narrative that has been out for thirty forty years. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean for you to be able to
Speaker 1: break it down like it wasn't just it was rules
Speaker 1: for this, this and that, but they just chose to
Speaker 1: focus on That's why y'all got the best show going
Speaker 1: all that smoke. You got two true form of players
Speaker 1: that now I can have in depth, real basketball conversations.
Speaker 1: I ain't talking to two guys that ain't never played
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Ain't talking to guys ain't even one championships,
Speaker 1: ain't even play. I'm talking to the real guys now, right.
Speaker 1: They ain't a whole lot of real guys you can
Speaker 1: have this level of conversation with, right, So it always
Speaker 1: had to get dumbed down, you know, and then they
Speaker 1: take a few sentences of whatever, they chop it up
Speaker 1: and they go to this is Detroit business. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: like I said, it's definitely refreshing to here from your mom,
Speaker 1: because we know that we know it's rules for every
Speaker 1: different players, especially the star players. And if you don't
Speaker 1: have no rules, they're gonna get your ass fifty points.
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna look like you don't even belong God there,
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Early nineties. You're coming off three
Speaker 1: straight finals appearance. You tell your achilles an injury. Back
Speaker 1: then there was a career ender. Now they're coming back
Speaker 1: off them. Um thoughts when that happens. So here was
Speaker 1: the career ending that that I don't talk about and
Speaker 1: didn't talk about. Right, So your wrists, yeah, see this
Speaker 1: is as far as I can be my wrist and
Speaker 1: that's your shooting hand to my shooting hand. Now, the
Speaker 1: doctor Kirk Watson, it's called the Kirk Watson. He invented
Speaker 1: the surgery. And when he did this surgery on my
Speaker 1: wrist in ninety one, this is the year we lost.
Speaker 1: I think I missed like fifty some games that year.
Speaker 1: He said to me, you never played basketball again, and
Speaker 1: I was like, no, well I'm gonna play. Go. No,
Speaker 1: this is this is a career ending specifically for a
Speaker 1: small guard. Now for big men who play around the basket.
Speaker 1: If you was six to seven post up guy, you
Speaker 1: know it worked. But you being a small guy having
Speaker 1: to shoot from the perimeter. And you can go back
Speaker 1: and look after we won in ninety and after this
Speaker 1: risk surgery right. You can look at my stats from
Speaker 1: ninety one to ninety four. I wasn't the same player
Speaker 1: because I couldn't shoot. Now, why did I have to
Speaker 1: hang on their contract? Right? You know you you got
Speaker 1: three more years left on the contract. Ain't gonna get
Speaker 1: you gotta get the money. Now, I can't retire. So
Speaker 1: you stay and you do the best you can. But
Speaker 1: you're not the same anymore. When did you realize you weren't?
Speaker 1: Like as soon as you came back, you knew. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh shit, I came down my wrist. I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I couldn't. So nineteen ninety I think I still hold
Speaker 1: there the three point shooting record in the NBA Finals,
Speaker 1: the highest percentage. I think I shot sixty two sixty
Speaker 1: three from the three point line. You got researcher here
Speaker 1: right there, you're doing it right now. Nineteen ninety we're
Speaker 1: playing the Portland Trail Blazers. We beat them for one.
Speaker 1: What was my three point field goal percentage? Damn? Damn?
Speaker 1: What you was? What you was shooting in ocean ship?
Speaker 1: I was kind of good understand so that that still
Speaker 1: is the highest percentage percentage, right, So now I come
Speaker 1: back ninety one and shot too much. It was just
Speaker 1: doctor say, hey, man, yeah, he said, you have so
Speaker 1: many bins in the wrist. And I was, man, I
Speaker 1: I practice. All I was doing was shooting and and
Speaker 1: I had got so good from that three point line
Speaker 1: and then my my penetration game was on. So again,
Speaker 1: like when you talk about the Pistons week, we changed
Speaker 1: the way the game's played. In that same series, where
Speaker 1: did Bill Lambier shoot from the three point line thirty
Speaker 1: six right in today's game? In today's game, that's the standard. Right,
Speaker 1: So you know, that was all center and that's how
Speaker 1: we played, right. Bill Lambier was heavily criticized because he
Speaker 1: wasn't a post up center and he was standing out
Speaker 1: I shooting three pointers and we was playing pick and roll.
Speaker 1: But you know, when did I know it was over?
Speaker 1: After that surgery? So I had to the first part
Speaker 1: of the surgery. I had to walk around like this
Speaker 1: for for six weeks and then little sling and they
Speaker 1: didn't want no blood running up in it, right, And
Speaker 1: then they let me come down like this, right. And
Speaker 1: then when they took the cast and everything, golf man,
Speaker 1: my wrist was that big, smelling funky. The cast were stinking.
Speaker 1: I remember them days. Yeah yeah, And so now we
Speaker 1: I'm playing left handed in the playoffs because I can't
Speaker 1: shoots it pain for you just can't bend it, oh
Speaker 1: pain for you know, I wouldn't come out of castin
Speaker 1: know muscles. And then they slapping, I mean they hit
Speaker 1: Scottie Piper hit my arm one time in the Eastern
Speaker 1: Converence Finals. Man, I swear to god, tears came to
Speaker 1: my heart. I didn't do all that because you can't
Speaker 1: let him know, right, yea, man, I swear to god,
Speaker 1: I started crying. And if I wasn't sweating, right, you
Speaker 1: would have seen it. People, people would have seen it.
Speaker 1: I was, but I was was just playing off, like man,
Speaker 1: that dude hit my arm so hard. Man, And speaking
Speaker 1: to Scottie, I do want to clean something up and
Speaker 1: get Scotty his respect because as a defender, right, he
Speaker 1: don't get enough credit. And when we talk about probably
Speaker 1: the greatest and the best defender that's ever played in
Speaker 1: the NBA, Chicago had two album Robbing and Scottie Pippen.
Speaker 1: But but Scotty, Scotty was different, you know, as as
Speaker 1: a defender at his best, I may have to say
Speaker 1: that he and Rob in one and two best defenders
Speaker 1: probably ever to play the game. And so I do
Speaker 1: want to get him his respect in his props because
Speaker 1: and then as a facilitator, you know, I mean Scotty Scotty,
Speaker 1: you know he was, he was the real deal. Was great. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: there's been recent debates about the physicality in today's game.
Speaker 1: I don't even understand this because it's not physical. This
Speaker 1: is the internet talk. So there's been some guys that
Speaker 1: we played with, yeah, Gilbert Orinas JJ Ready in particularly
Speaker 1: that says it's tougher to play in today's game than
Speaker 1: it was to play in the eighties. M thoughts on that,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the physicality. I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: comparison to the physicality when you played to what today
Speaker 1: is because you can't be physical. But just thoughts on
Speaker 1: I guess remember, let me change my questions. Just the
Speaker 1: errors of basketball in your mind, being an all time
Speaker 1: great hard to compare. Can you compare eras or just
Speaker 1: the game has continued to evolve so much that it's
Speaker 1: just because you leave them in their era. So I
Speaker 1: do have to answer this question in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: So the errors are different. Some people say the eighties
Speaker 1: was the best era of basketball ever. Some people have
Speaker 1: said the nineties, You know it's wasn't one of the
Speaker 1: greatest basketball eras ever them two thousands. You know that
Speaker 1: as the rules started changing and coaching schemes started changing.
Speaker 1: When you say the game has evolved, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go back and I'm gonna go old air, And then
Speaker 1: I want you to take me back to this question.
Speaker 1: So has the game really evolved? And what does that
Speaker 1: mean when you say it's evolved? Now, I grew up
Speaker 1: with watching a guy by the name of Billy Harris
Speaker 1: shoot from half court. He wouldn't take a layup. He
Speaker 1: come down one on nobody and he stopped and pull
Speaker 1: up at the top of the key, and everybody with holla,
Speaker 1: lay up right. He was known for never shooting a
Speaker 1: layup right. He was known for pulling up at half
Speaker 1: court knocking it down. When y'all was playing in the
Speaker 1: real games, it was a guy by the name of
Speaker 1: Stefan Marberry Starberry who would stop at half court, pull up, boom,
Speaker 1: knock it down. What has changed and the guy who
Speaker 1: doesn't get credit for changing the game in this so
Speaker 1: called evolution of the game. His name would be coach
Speaker 1: Mark Jackson. Now let me tell you why Mark Jackson
Speaker 1: changed the game. Because Mark Jackson saw a guy by
Speaker 1: the name of Steph Curry and a guy by the
Speaker 1: name of Clay Thompson, and Mark Jackson as a coach
Speaker 1: made it acceptable. He made it acceptable for Steph Curry
Speaker 1: and Clay to shoot from that range. People always shot
Speaker 1: from that range, they just didn't do it as part
Speaker 1: of their offensive schemes. Mark Jackson solely accepted Steph and
Speaker 1: Clay shooting from that distance, from that range and crucial
Speaker 1: powers of the game because before that it was lived
Speaker 1: by the deer three dive by three because it hadn't
Speaker 1: been proven yet that you can win that way. Well,
Speaker 1: we proved it well consistently at I'll take it back
Speaker 1: because it was inside out. But also you know when
Speaker 1: you when you we talked about your three point percentage,
Speaker 1: you were eleven for sixteen in the finals. Like that's
Speaker 1: one game for guys, now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So just the volume value, Yeah, that's that's what I'm
Speaker 1: getting there. So Mark, So the one who has power
Speaker 1: gives definition too, and the one who has power can
Speaker 1: also allow things to happen. We came up and when
Speaker 1: we were playing, all coaches that wasn't acceptable to shoot
Speaker 1: and from that distance or play that way. It just
Speaker 1: wasn't acceptable. Mark Jackson alone accepted and when he accepted,
Speaker 1: that changed the game. That changed the game. Steph Curry,
Speaker 1: Clay Thompson would not be Steph Curry Clay Thompson getting
Speaker 1: credit for evolutionary if there wasn't a teacher and the
Speaker 1: master saying you can do that. And I never forget
Speaker 1: watching Golden State player Okase and Clay Thompson pulled up,
Speaker 1: dude in the pressure situation, the pressure situation from the
Speaker 1: hash Mark Bam. Yeah. Now Mark Jackson wasn't coaching then,
Speaker 1: but the thought the acceptability right that that we're watching
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant in Cleveland come down and Lebron James waiting
Speaker 1: for him, and Kevin Durant stopped three feet behind Boom
Speaker 1: Sandwiches and they asked Lebron James what was the difference
Speaker 1: between last year and this year? He said, kadi ya
Speaker 1: for real? You know, but Mark, but Mark Jackson, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, when you say the evolution of the game
Speaker 1: and a three point shot his name, he's the one
Speaker 1: who changed the game. He's the one who made it
Speaker 1: acceptable from a coaching standpoint to not allow you to
Speaker 1: shoot there but allow you to miss from there. It
Speaker 1: wasn't the shooting, like he said, It was the missus.
Speaker 1: The missus. No, he can't keep missing. That can't keep missing.
Speaker 1: Now we see, guys. I saw Steph come back his
Speaker 1: first game after being injured one time and he went
Speaker 1: three for sixteen in Portland from the three point line.
Speaker 1: It's acceptable now, it's acceptable now, right? You know you
Speaker 1: can you can go one for ten and say I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get hot. Mark, Mark Jackson change the game. And
Speaker 1: that's not even just credit Clay and Steff's talent. But
Speaker 1: like you said, to understand what you're saying, it's just
Speaker 1: someone that will allowing and accept it and understand it.
Speaker 1: And you're definitely not wrong. I know you were obviously
Speaker 1: a team guy and and and you guys ran your
Speaker 1: system and you thought. But with the freedom of today's
Speaker 1: game because of Mark, what do you feel like if
Speaker 1: you were just an individual out there in today's game,
Speaker 1: what do you feel like you can average with your
Speaker 1: ability to do people can't stay in front of you
Speaker 1: can shoot the ball, to high clip. If if I dominated,
Speaker 1: then I would dominate now. Yeah, I mean because the
Speaker 1: rules now favor me. They favor the small guy. They
Speaker 1: they favor me now. Freedom of movement itself, space, No,
Speaker 1: ain't nobody in the lane. No hand checking either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, a hand check in it bothered me some.
Speaker 1: But I was fast right, so and then I knew
Speaker 1: a little judo, So you put your hand there. I
Speaker 1: hit them. You know, I knew, I knew how to
Speaker 1: I knew how to move it and get back. But
Speaker 1: the nobody in the lane. See, every time I drove
Speaker 1: down the lane, six people in the lane. You know,
Speaker 1: there's me and my defender and then there's you know,
Speaker 1: two big So you you got to be tricky around
Speaker 1: the basket. Now you're driving down the lane naked. Ain't
Speaker 1: nobody there, so you you get to stretch out, lay
Speaker 1: up if you if you saw me coming down, I
Speaker 1: had to I had to ball up and then I
Speaker 1: had to come out, you know. So But like I
Speaker 1: said that, if if I dominated, then I would dominate
Speaker 1: now and and make no mistake about it. In the
Speaker 1: game of basketball, some people may say you're arrogant. I
Speaker 1: don't care. I am extremely confident in my skills and
Speaker 1: my ability and what I was doing and what I
Speaker 1: could do. I can't do it now, but you know,
Speaker 1: m I would be all right. I agree to say
Speaker 1: the least three players, you feel like that'll be the
Speaker 1: face of the NBA in the next ten years. I
Speaker 1: don't know if they'll be from America. H I'm just
Speaker 1: saying facts. That's crazy. I mean, that's crazy. That's true though,
Speaker 1: Jannis Luca, you know, joker. I mean when you look
Speaker 1: at the last five, the young boy, I mean, when
Speaker 1: you look at the last the last four five m MVPs,
Speaker 1: they all been international players. Now that's you know, that's
Speaker 1: the conversation to have. Yeah, yeah, that's keep winning MVP
Speaker 1: and can't get to the finals or at least the
Speaker 1: conference finals or something. You can't you gotta win. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it got to be a shut it down, like you
Speaker 1: can win it back to back. Okay, cool, I understand that.
Speaker 1: But one of them back to back years, you got
Speaker 1: at least get to your conference finals. Bro, you can't
Speaker 1: get there. You're not nv P one time, didn't they
Speaker 1: Then they go to the Western finals once in the bubble,
Speaker 1: right then that bubble shit, don't count. But this, this
Speaker 1: is where the numbers, This is where the analytics hit
Speaker 1: don't count. This is where the analytics like you know,
Speaker 1: the the those remember I said, those who are in power,
Speaker 1: they give definition to so they get to define and
Speaker 1: they get to make the rules and they get to
Speaker 1: say what's acceptable. So now winning is totally discounted. Yes,
Speaker 1: that it's like anybody can win. And I'm here to say, no,
Speaker 1: that ain't true. Those of us who have won will
Speaker 1: let you know, like it ain't easy. That now it
Speaker 1: ain't easy, and that that guy who's a twelfth man,
Speaker 1: that dude count and why does he count? Because there
Speaker 1: is a such thing called chemistry that makes a whole
Speaker 1: team work, that makes it all together. And that guy
Speaker 1: who part of it is a big part of it.
Speaker 1: His personality, his character, his showing up things that you
Speaker 1: don't measure, right, those things are what we say. Those
Speaker 1: are the things that we value. Remember when we was
Speaker 1: growing up, it was like, dude, you could have it
Speaker 1: twenty points and tim rebounds, but if your character is nasty,
Speaker 1: you ain't on the team. I ain't picking you. You
Speaker 1: ain't on the team. You just ain't on the team.
Speaker 1: Now you can have it twenty and ten have a
Speaker 1: bad attitude, and they'd be like, well, you know, he
Speaker 1: does get twenty points tim rebound, but they never speak
Speaker 1: to your personality, your character, who you are, you're upstanding,
Speaker 1: none of that. Right, So since winning doesn't matter, now,
Speaker 1: we're just talking about numbers. And if we're only talking
Speaker 1: about numbers, analytics makes you selfish because you are only
Speaker 1: thinking about your numbers and you get paid on your numbers.
Speaker 1: And if I'm getting paid on my numbers, and all
Speaker 1: I gotta do is get numbers. And because that's all
Speaker 1: general public understands, because we have to, we have to
Speaker 1: present the game in a way that the average fan
Speaker 1: will understand it so we can get more fans. So
Speaker 1: if I dumb it down and break it down so
Speaker 1: it's only about numbers, then it's a game for everybody.
Speaker 1: It's not an exclusive club anymore. Anybody can do it.
Speaker 1: You got kids not thinking like they can play like
Speaker 1: Steph Curry and shoot like Steph Curry because right now,
Speaker 1: you gotta do it. Be able to dribble, make a layup,
Speaker 1: make a free throw, and shoot a jump shot. You
Speaker 1: don't have to understand no schemes. So when you look
Speaker 1: at a guy like you know, the joker, no disrespect,
Speaker 1: you know, I like him, But but I was I
Speaker 1: was saying the other year, like Devin Booker, his team
Speaker 1: at the best record, yeah, and he was having the
Speaker 1: twenty six, twenty seven points and he in the MVP
Speaker 1: right right, there used to be a time when record,
Speaker 1: when it matters. You have his twenty six, you have
Speaker 1: a twenty seven. You know, we we got to give
Speaker 1: you that. But you can't be the MVP of the
Speaker 1: league one year and your team is in fifth place. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that It's never worked that way. And you can't be
Speaker 1: the best player in the league for the show when
Speaker 1: your team not even in the playoffs. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: want a lot of people don't want to hear that
Speaker 1: those are those are well, that's how that's how we
Speaker 1: look at it, right. It's like now, unfortunately we don't
Speaker 1: have the loudest voice. You know that we're not the majority.
Speaker 1: The majority has the loudest voice because there's more of them, right,
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that they're right. Absolutely not not
Speaker 1: at all, not at all, not at all mean culture,
Speaker 1: you haven't meme u that came out. I met the
Speaker 1: criteria to be selected but I wasn't thoughts on just
Speaker 1: where can you imagine have a social media back when
Speaker 1: you guys played, We would have killed it, he said,
Speaker 1: we would have killed What's what's your name? Zake? You know,
Speaker 1: I met the criteria, but I wasn't selected. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I kind of like that now, speaking of that, mean, right,
Speaker 1: you see me dressed in a three piece suit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's the other thing I got to say about Mike now,
Speaker 1: his producer and Mike, they called me, Hey, we need
Speaker 1: you in the video. Can't tell my story without you.
Speaker 1: He's so important. Now I'm thinking, we all cool, can't
Speaker 1: tell my story without you, you know. Blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: So I dressed up. I'm sitting in a three piece suit.
Speaker 1: I bring one of my partners, Kevin Cotrell. You know,
Speaker 1: he was sitting in the interview. We actually did it
Speaker 1: at NBA TV. I sat there for two hours. I
Speaker 1: said a lot of good stuff, right, last dance, come
Speaker 1: out and that's it. Now I'm dressed to the nine.
Speaker 1: I didn't come here in the sweat suit today. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm giving you respect. I'm gonna show up, you know,
Speaker 1: the right way, because I got respect for you. I
Speaker 1: showed up the right way for that dude, and I
Speaker 1: sat there and I did the interview. And that's what
Speaker 1: you do to me. Now, I like the mean, unreal,
Speaker 1: I like the mean. I ain't gonna front on it,
Speaker 1: but I like it. I'm just glad I was dressed nice.
Speaker 1: Tell me if I'm going too far. Did you get
Speaker 1: a check? No? Hell na? No? Wait wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I didn't ask for a chat. Now, I know you'd
Speaker 1: ask for you know what I'm saying, but like you know, damn.
Speaker 1: But but the way I was brought up right again,
Speaker 1: we talked about that West side of Chicago that you know,
Speaker 1: we I came up in the era where where we
Speaker 1: give each other knowledge. You know, the game is meant
Speaker 1: to be told, that sold right. This is a generation
Speaker 1: that has swip flipped it all around. So we don't
Speaker 1: work with each other, and we don't share with each other,
Speaker 1: we don't pass on knowledge, we don't we don't uplift
Speaker 1: each other, you know. And so I went there to uplift. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I didn't go there to chair down. So do I
Speaker 1: feel blindsided? Like I said, I got to sit here
Speaker 1: and asker these questions. Yeah. Now, if he real, he
Speaker 1: should come on your show. He should sit in this seat,
Speaker 1: and and he should talk to y'all as brothers. He
Speaker 1: should talk to y'all as former You know, I agree
Speaker 1: straight to him. Yeah yeah, nah, no, I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean I hear y'all praise him rightfully. So and he
Speaker 1: should be, you know, because his shoe game is tight,
Speaker 1: what he's done in the shoe industry, and and and
Speaker 1: we're happy for that, right, but it's some other stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, they come on, man, like, you know, be real.
Speaker 1: Two thousand elected to the Hall of Fame. When you
Speaker 1: think about your body of work starting in high school,
Speaker 1: through college, through the league, Uh what what rich? What
Speaker 1: stands out to you the most? Just a winner, proven winner.
Speaker 1: Everybody can't say they one on every level. They played
Speaker 1: on and started the NBA franchise, in the in the
Speaker 1: in the foreign country, the Toronto Raptors. So when I
Speaker 1: look at the Raptors and what I did there has
Speaker 1: stood the test of time. And you know that two
Speaker 1: thousand going into the Hall of Fame. So I retired
Speaker 1: in ninety four in April and May I was part
Speaker 1: owner president of Basketball Operation. I was the first player
Speaker 1: to ever walk off the floor straight into it and
Speaker 1: go straight into ownership and run basketball operations. And by
Speaker 1: the way, all we had was a blank sheet of paper.
Speaker 1: There was no uniform. So there you go again. You
Speaker 1: did that before, though you did that in Detroit. You
Speaker 1: built it up so the same thing. So when you
Speaker 1: see when you see the raptor run out there with
Speaker 1: that flag, and he planned his flag and he waved
Speaker 1: his flag, you can go back and you will see
Speaker 1: the bad boys right out with the flag waving. We
Speaker 1: plan all flag right in all colors. What we stood for, right,
Speaker 1: it's all around there. You know that dance pack, that
Speaker 1: dance team started all of the right. So standing up
Speaker 1: there in the Hall of Fame. In two thousand, I
Speaker 1: owned the league called the CBA, and the first man
Speaker 1: to ever own a league and turned it into a
Speaker 1: single entity which the NBA. Then started the w NBA
Speaker 1: and copied a lot of our formulas what we were doing.
Speaker 1: CBA had got to a point where it was so good.
Speaker 1: David Stern said, I liked that. I want that. So
Speaker 1: they started the G League and now everything that the
Speaker 1: G I didn't know you had something to do with
Speaker 1: the CBA. Z I owned the whole league. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. I played in this ship for about two weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the crossbodcast. Yeah, the worst place on Earth. I owned
Speaker 1: the whole league. I bought every team, say word about
Speaker 1: I bought every team. And I was I was the
Speaker 1: first individual. It's the first individual to ever own an
Speaker 1: entire league. Not the way they the way it's been written.
Speaker 1: Oh you you you bankrupted to CBA. Nah, time out
Speaker 1: the NBA. David Stern and those owners bankrupted to CBA
Speaker 1: and started the league. Purpose Well, it was competition, you know,
Speaker 1: And and I get it. That's that's business. You know.
Speaker 1: They were they had more money, and I didn't have
Speaker 1: the money to compete with what they were getting ready
Speaker 1: to do. I thought wrongfully. So I thought that being
Speaker 1: a former player, that they would say, support you, let's
Speaker 1: bring thought. But it's business. They're looking at his business
Speaker 1: like nine, it's good enough you competition, we want that
Speaker 1: or either get out now the other thing that you
Speaker 1: know less those are lessons learned, Those are those are
Speaker 1: hard business lessons. So when you talk about the first
Speaker 1: game that was ever broadcast live over the internet that
Speaker 1: came out of the CBA, Isaiah Thomas did that CBA Hoops.
Speaker 1: There was a CBA hoops before NBA dot Com. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that let's just real talk and that those now
Speaker 1: were they were they better at business? And did they
Speaker 1: have more money? Absolutely? When you look at the G League,
Speaker 1: you know a good portion of that is my business plan.
Speaker 1: Just the blueprint. That's the blueprint, same thing, Yeah, just
Speaker 1: with more money. Now. The other thing that you can
Speaker 1: go back and look into history when you talk about
Speaker 1: the CBA, they said I couldn't own the league and
Speaker 1: coach in the NBA at the same time. So they
Speaker 1: said it was a conflict of interests. The only time
Speaker 1: that there was a special vote in the NBA by
Speaker 1: the owners that rule that Isaiah Thomas could not own
Speaker 1: the league or a team because it was a conflict
Speaker 1: of interest. The owners voted, so I had to sell
Speaker 1: or give up the CBA to coach the Indiana Pacers. Interesting,
Speaker 1: so did you have a hand in putting the team
Speaker 1: in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, Because I've still traumatized from that city.
Speaker 1: My first day I have to go to practice or
Speaker 1: go unpack and seem decides to go bowling as soon
Speaker 1: as I get rid of the Rollman strike. Two dudes
Speaker 1: coming in and lay the whole place down to rob everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to make play basketball, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if the risk is worth the reward. So U,
Speaker 1: my brother and I had family in racing Wisconsin, and
Speaker 1: I had a lot of bad A lot of people
Speaker 1: from Chicago. A lot of people from Chicago, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: a lot of and racing was on touchables, yeah street. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people from Chicago left and had to
Speaker 1: go to Wisconsin. They went to two places, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Minnesota.
Speaker 1: And so actually the owners in Lacrosse they were good people.
Speaker 1: So that the CBA owners, um, when I bought the
Speaker 1: CBA from them, all of them were good people. They
Speaker 1: were good operators. I left them all in the business
Speaker 1: and that the NBA became. You know, they wanted a
Speaker 1: league for themselves. Uh is this urban legend? Is there
Speaker 1: any truth to this that you wanted to draft Kevin
Speaker 1: Garnett m and in Toronto, put him in the middle
Speaker 1: and put four guards around him. Absolutely, So let me
Speaker 1: let me tell you that down. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: what ended up happened, and then I'll break it down.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna remind you of a guy by name
Speaker 1: of Marcus Camby. That I had a brother that you love,
Speaker 1: by the name of Doug Christy, one that I drafted
Speaker 1: by the name of Tracy McGrady. I love point guard
Speaker 1: that was Wickie of the Year by name of Davis Stardomyer.
Speaker 1: And then number fifteen Vince Carter. That's me. Them was
Speaker 1: the guys. Okay, now, the idea that I had and
Speaker 1: Jim Kelly right now who's with the Dallas Mavericks, and
Speaker 1: and Bob Zeffalatto, whose son Scott Zeffalatto runs the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. I brought those two gentlemen in and what
Speaker 1: I want to do in Toronto. We called it the
Speaker 1: Raptor two. And what was the Raptor two. The Raptor
Speaker 1: two was going to be a six seven to six
Speaker 1: to nine power forward who had guard skills because if
Speaker 1: you remember offense back then, the four always pinned down
Speaker 1: on the two. So we wanted to be able to
Speaker 1: switch to four in the two, but we wanted on
Speaker 1: the offensive end that guard that four, who would have
Speaker 1: been McGrady or Carter or whatever. They would have guard
Speaker 1: skills and now they can break it down, they can
Speaker 1: shoot the three, they can get to the basket. Guys
Speaker 1: like Oakley couldn't guard them on a perimeter. Had Damon
Speaker 1: Stodomeyer who could play high screening role with Marcus Camby,
Speaker 1: who could you know, pass shoot to them? Now, when
Speaker 1: I saw Kevin Garnett, first time I saw him was
Speaker 1: in South Carolina at a playground. He didn't even though
Speaker 1: I was there. He was playing outside and they had
Speaker 1: this little playground tournament. So I snuck down there and
Speaker 1: I'm watching this dude, yeah, yeah, yeah, tween the legs
Speaker 1: behind the back, pulling up shooting, you know, passing diamond.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's my Raptor two. That that's who.
Speaker 1: I won't that's who. So Kevin Garnett, don't. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say this. Kevin Garnett also somehow ends up in Chicago
Speaker 1: and his coaches got my name of Anthony long Street,
Speaker 1: who I played with inside job. I can hear it.
Speaker 1: I can hear the inside job. And he ends up
Speaker 1: at Farragut on the West Side. And you know, aren't
Speaker 1: you from the West Side? You know, Mom and everybody,
Speaker 1: they they end up, you know, in Chicago. Someone had
Speaker 1: to roll the red carpet out for him, and so
Speaker 1: now you know, we're watching Garnett through his thing. And
Speaker 1: by that time, you know, they you can draft high
Speaker 1: school players. The rules had changed. So I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how can I get the players? So I
Speaker 1: had a meeting with guys that I when I got
Speaker 1: the job. I had meeting with tech s ram Elgin Brailer,
Speaker 1: Jerry West, and um Buddy Ryan, the football coaches, football coaches.
Speaker 1: Why did I go to football? Right? Because football draft
Speaker 1: six rounds and Dallas was known for thinking outside the box.
Speaker 1: You may not remember a guy by the name of
Speaker 1: Bob Hayes, but Bob Hayes ran track. It's a long
Speaker 1: time ago. Y'all weren't even born, but they was known for,
Speaker 1: you know, drafting, you know, guys outside of their sport.
Speaker 1: So I want to know how and why they thought
Speaker 1: that way. Had to talk with him. Then I study
Speaker 1: what the forty nine ers were doing, because what football
Speaker 1: does that basketball? Don't them? Guys in football? The amount
Speaker 1: of information that they're able to consume on a weekly
Speaker 1: basis is mind blowing. I mean when you look at
Speaker 1: the information that they're able to absorb and then come out,
Speaker 1: I mean they get volumes and volumes of books that
Speaker 1: they have to know, tendencies, break down, everything else. So
Speaker 1: when I looked at the coaching staffs, right at that time,
Speaker 1: there was no such thing as an offensive coordinator defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1: We brought that in in Toronto, copied it from football.
Speaker 1: And why did we do that because again, football went
Speaker 1: to specialization long before the NBA went to specialization, special teams,
Speaker 1: special teams. And then they have you know, quarterback coach.
Speaker 1: They have alignment's coach. You have a running back coach.
Speaker 1: I mean their specialization, their breakdown and their information, their
Speaker 1: their quality control and all that. So I put all
Speaker 1: that together, now bring that to Toronto. I see Kevin
Speaker 1: Garnett and I'm like, he the one. He got it
Speaker 1: all he got, he got the understanding, he's smart, you know,
Speaker 1: he's got the personality, he's got the motor, he's got
Speaker 1: the engine. He's got he's got everything that you're looking for.
Speaker 1: So I have this terminology that I call ICE. It's
Speaker 1: hash him here, what's ice? Intensity, concentration and energy that
Speaker 1: That's that's what we and that's what you look for.
Speaker 1: That's what separates the great player from the good player.
Speaker 1: You can have skill and all that, but can you
Speaker 1: put intensity, concentration and energy on top of that skill?
Speaker 1: And if you can do that, dangerous cool got something
Speaker 1: that was Kevin Garnett. And so now we're going through
Speaker 1: the draft and I you know, while back, I told
Speaker 1: you Kevin McKell and I are really good friends. So
Speaker 1: if you remember, you know, around Garnett's draft, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of bad talk around him. He's not there, he's dad,
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's a great player, but can you
Speaker 1: really trust him? You know character, you know all of
Speaker 1: the cargo. So you didn't use worry about none of that. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of hell that because I
Speaker 1: wanted to fall us. Right, So so I get a
Speaker 1: car from kill Right, he goes, Ah, I need you
Speaker 1: to be honest with me, He goes, tell me about
Speaker 1: this kid, Garnett. I can't get a read on him.
Speaker 1: I said, Kevin, I'm not gonna lie to you. I said,
Speaker 1: if you don't draft him, I'm gonna draft him. Right,
Speaker 1: he goes, you really would take him? I say absolutely?
Speaker 1: And I say he would be great with you. I said,
Speaker 1: but you know, if you don't take him, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: taking him. Everything else you're hearing around him is just
Speaker 1: just straight noise. He goes all right, so he ends
Speaker 1: up taking Kevin. Now, why did I draft Dame in
Speaker 1: stotomy Here? Who did Dame in Stotomia played for? I
Speaker 1: was only who was his head? That's a supposed to
Speaker 1: go to zom. Did Rosborow recruit you Jesse Evans? Jesse
Speaker 1: Evans or okay, okay, okay, okay, So yeah that so
Speaker 1: so so I called Rosborough up. I'm like, tell me
Speaker 1: about Damon? Right came miss Damon becomes a Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year. So that's how that's how Garnett, you know,
Speaker 1: got started. Interesting all right, quick hitters. First thing to
Speaker 1: come to mind. Let us know what you think top
Speaker 1: five point guards of all time? This is gonna be
Speaker 1: a good one. Well, I gotta go size in terms
Speaker 1: of category, because when you look at you know, Magic
Speaker 1: and Oscar Robertson right there, that's a different there. It
Speaker 1: was Oscar six six six five. He was six to five.
Speaker 1: But but dude, like I mean strong, you know, have
Speaker 1: a triple double all of that, and um, so you
Speaker 1: know I put them in a different category. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna say that the best And why are they the best?
Speaker 1: Because their size and their weight gives them an advantage
Speaker 1: over all of us six one dudes, right, And when
Speaker 1: you get to small people my size, I'm one two
Speaker 1: three now and that's just you know, it's like, and
Speaker 1: why do I say that? Name me one gay my
Speaker 1: size who's done what I've done? H, step boy, you
Speaker 1: got anything for for for me? I can't see nobody.
Speaker 1: And the reason why I separate you from a lot
Speaker 1: of point guards the same reason I separate Kobe from
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Just that toughness, just being relentant,
Speaker 1: a being a winner. Ah, I look at when different.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I appreciate winning more than anything,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I respect that. So
Speaker 1: that's why I separate you, because you had the toughness
Speaker 1: and to win. Everybody don't have that. Can you humor
Speaker 1: us real quick and give us you plus four more?
Speaker 1: Just kind of see what you're thinking is on the
Speaker 1: rear right. So so I'm gonna go if you listen
Speaker 1: in Steph Curry as a point guard, H we are
Speaker 1: we are okay? Then Steph? We are right? Then then
Speaker 1: Steph because no one's done what he's done. Right from
Speaker 1: a championship winning standpoint. Now we've done it differently, but
Speaker 1: people all size right, you know, it's it's one and two, right,
Speaker 1: and and if I was picking right, depending on what day,
Speaker 1: he may be one because you know that, hey man,
Speaker 1: it's intimidating when the guy step across half court and
Speaker 1: he can just let it go you and you're standing
Speaker 1: down in the layoup line doing your layoup, you're shooting him.
Speaker 1: Of course that's intimidating. So it's a psychological effect that
Speaker 1: he brings to the game. And then he's got that.
Speaker 1: He's got the intellect, he's got the he's got the smartness,
Speaker 1: he's got the toughness, he's got the he's got the character,
Speaker 1: he's got the pedigree, he's got the leadership, he's got
Speaker 1: he's got all of that. Right, there's there there there's
Speaker 1: no flaws there. So you know what what I what
Speaker 1: I banked on, right is again, I'm gonna outthank you,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna out concentrate you. I'm gonna you're going to
Speaker 1: make a mistake against me that allows me to beat you. Right.
Speaker 1: So Steph and I are very similar in that way.
Speaker 1: We do it differently, right, um, and then we win
Speaker 1: like championships matter, Okay, um, and I'm just talking all side.
Speaker 1: So magic Oscar. They that's how we put parking Biggie
Speaker 1: somewhere else. Yeah, uh what nosdam, he's in the category. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's in there, just saying so speaking of nas, is
Speaker 1: he still answering this? Yeah? So then and then I
Speaker 1: gotta go Stockton, Chris paul Um. This is gonna be
Speaker 1: tough one, but I got I gotta throw Jay Kidd
Speaker 1: in there. You know, people, how can you not well
Speaker 1: what people are gonna say, Nash one two MVPs and
Speaker 1: not it. But but but Jason Kidd. You know he
Speaker 1: was a motherfucker boy. Yeah yeah, yeah, Jake Kid. M Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate when people say that. Nash one too. He
Speaker 1: did Man, but Shack and Kobe Man Man, Kobe should
Speaker 1: have won that Man. But the rules the rules again,
Speaker 1: that's the regular season award, But the rules changed. That's
Speaker 1: when the rules started changing where small people can start playing.
Speaker 1: So I was in Actually I was actually in the
Speaker 1: room with Mark Cuban the day he made that trade
Speaker 1: or didn't resigned Nash We sitting in Dallas and it's
Speaker 1: cub and I. We're in the room and he's debating
Speaker 1: if if he should keep Nash and the rules hadn't
Speaker 1: changed yet, and you know, he had all his material.
Speaker 1: He was saying, you know, Nash snowing, slowing down a
Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, deaf was on the line, deff he wanted,
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit more money. Humans like, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, you know, And then he made the decision
Speaker 1: he wasn't gonna he wasn't gonna resign Nash. And Nash
Speaker 1: went on to win, you know, MVP, but then he
Speaker 1: ended up being Jason Kidd and winning the championship. So
Speaker 1: do you want the MVP or do you want to
Speaker 1: win the championship? You want so, you know, Q made
Speaker 1: the decision smart. They end up you know, winning the championship.
Speaker 1: But that's when the rules changed and the rules started
Speaker 1: favoring the smaller people, guards and everything else. They eliminated
Speaker 1: hand check in, you know, all that stuff. And you know,
Speaker 1: Dan Tony gets credit for seven seconds or less. But
Speaker 1: that's not that's not free movement. That's not free movement.
Speaker 1: It's a gentleman by the name of John McClinton who
Speaker 1: I took him to the Hall of Fame. John McClinton,
Speaker 1: who invented fast break basketball, and he invented seven seconds
Speaker 1: or less. I took John McClinton and his family into
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. The first higher I made in Toronto,
Speaker 1: it was John McClinton. And they still have the John
Speaker 1: McClinton Award in Toronto. And the first player to win
Speaker 1: it was Steve Nash out of Vancouver in Canada. But
Speaker 1: John McClinton invented seven seconds of less basketball. Now they
Speaker 1: give credit to Dantoni. Dan created Shah he one shit,
Speaker 1: always get a job now, but they come from John McClinton.
Speaker 1: You know, So let's let's let's be factual and get
Speaker 1: a credit where credit goes. Mark Jackson changed the game.
Speaker 1: John McClinton invented fast break basketball. Seven secon just never
Speaker 1: thought about it. The way you broke me down with
Speaker 1: a makes complete sense about the Mark Jackson thing. One
Speaker 1: album you listen to on repeat, Earth Winning fire Man.
Speaker 1: Don't do that to Earth Winning fire That's the way
Speaker 1: of the world. They West Side boys. You know, I
Speaker 1: went to Crane High School. Ok my rees White Birdine
Speaker 1: that that's Chicago. I'm telling that Chicago is deep. And
Speaker 1: when you look at the albums you look at that
Speaker 1: air they you know, they they was talking to us.
Speaker 1: They they was talking to us about nationality, birthright, citizenship, spirituality.
Speaker 1: When you look at them pyramids and what they were
Speaker 1: to Hey man, they were singing to you? Was it
Speaker 1: Dad Earth winning fire? Funniest thing to happen to you recently.
Speaker 1: Funniest thing that happened to me recently. You might have
Speaker 1: asked you for ya I d when you was trying
Speaker 1: to get drink. Funniest thing that happened to me recently.
Speaker 1: So I work on the NBA TV with Christian Letlow. Right,
Speaker 1: So I'm going through the Detroit airport, going through the
Speaker 1: Detroit Airport and and you know, I'm I'm playing golf
Speaker 1: with with these dudes at Oakland and this dude goes
Speaker 1: where this guy goes, hey, ain't you that dude that
Speaker 1: work with Christian Letlow? I was in Detroit. I'm in
Speaker 1: Detroit now, my picture on the wall everything airport. When
Speaker 1: you go to that, you know say, ain't you that
Speaker 1: dude that we're with Christian Letlow? I say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He goes, Oh, man, I love her like she she's
Speaker 1: the best, She's great everything. So I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: he just going off. So, you know, Letlow and now
Speaker 1: we're pretty tight. So I said, hey, you want to
Speaker 1: talk to it. He's like, oh yeah, can so I
Speaker 1: doll up Letlow right right, and so so I give
Speaker 1: him the phone right. So he now he starts asking
Speaker 1: her basketball questions like hey, you know, well, who you
Speaker 1: think gonna win the championship this year? You know, and
Speaker 1: and you know who you think the best players? And
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm looking at this dude like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I mean. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling some kind of way, but I'm playing it off,
Speaker 1: right because I know when I get the phone back,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get an autograph or a picture something. Right. So,
Speaker 1: now they get through talking. He had me the phone
Speaker 1: back and he goes, oh man, you're so lucky you
Speaker 1: get to work with Letlo. I just I just love
Speaker 1: her and I just think she's the best, you know,
Speaker 1: really really thank you, you know, and good luck to you.
Speaker 1: And he walked away like like what the hell? Like
Speaker 1: what so, so I would say, that's the funniest thing
Speaker 1: that that that kind of happened. You know, I'm that
Speaker 1: dude that work with Christian that love crazy and you
Speaker 1: could be this next person, the other Isaiah Thomas talk
Speaker 1: about just the confusion that this constantly goes between you two. Man,
Speaker 1: I love it when he gets criticized because it ain't
Speaker 1: you being named after you. But so I'm I'm scouting
Speaker 1: and uh, I think I'm still in New York at
Speaker 1: that time, and and I'm hearing about this this guard
Speaker 1: in Seattle by the name of Isaiah Isaiah Thomas has
Speaker 1: it and I'm like, this got this can't be right,
Speaker 1: you know, like and are you thinking, like is he mine?
Speaker 1: Or what You're thinking? What's a lot of stuff you
Speaker 1: know on the rail on the rail, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like not not not easy mind anything like that, but
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you know, no, but it's like
Speaker 1: so so now you know, now I start, you know,
Speaker 1: doing a little a little research, right, and so now
Speaker 1: I get the film and I'm watching them play, and
Speaker 1: I'm like this this joker kind of good, like really good.
Speaker 1: So now they got the pacton tournament. You know, was
Speaker 1: here in la you know, a while back when he
Speaker 1: was coming out of school and they came in and
Speaker 1: they was playing UCLA. So I'm like, okay, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to meet this dude. So now his mom
Speaker 1: was at the game, and so as mom and his
Speaker 1: dad they come up, you know, they say hello and
Speaker 1: you know, and then I finally get to meet him.
Speaker 1: And when I got to meet him, it was like, damn,
Speaker 1: like you, I feel like I really know you, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like I do feel like there's some you know,
Speaker 1: the universe to you, and there's some spirituality that you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm and and so I'm really feeling this dude
Speaker 1: like I I hadn't been in his presence, but in
Speaker 1: his presence, I'm like, dude, like, you know, we we
Speaker 1: vibeing on a totally different level. Right. And So now
Speaker 1: he don't get drafted or he's the last pick in
Speaker 1: the drafts at the draft, He's at the draft, and
Speaker 1: and in my mind, I'm like, this dude can really play.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I don't know why they're tripping,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why the scouts are tripping, but
Speaker 1: this dude can really play and he should be in
Speaker 1: the NBA. So he gets drafted by Sacramento. Michael Malone
Speaker 1: is his coach. Now I've known Michael Malone since he
Speaker 1: was this big Brendan Malone. His father, right, was my
Speaker 1: assistant coach in Detroit, and he was also my first
Speaker 1: hire as a coach in Toronto. So I've known the
Speaker 1: Malone family forever, right, So that's why you don't never
Speaker 1: hear me say nothing bad about Mike Malone and Malone family.
Speaker 1: So so now he's got cousins in Isaiah. And if
Speaker 1: you go back and you look, that's the best cousins
Speaker 1: has ever played. That book. He said that was his
Speaker 1: favorite coach you ever had, absolutely, and and so now
Speaker 1: I'm following Isaiah and everything else. So and now he
Speaker 1: goes to Boston. Now I'm all fucked up. I'm really
Speaker 1: messed up now because Isaiah Thomas it's playing for Boston.
Speaker 1: It's playing for the Boston Celtics. And they love Isaiah
Speaker 1: in Boston love him. And I'm like, this don't go together,
Speaker 1: This don't work. Has this working? And now he's breaking
Speaker 1: all kinds of records in Boston and I'm hearing Tommy
Speaker 1: Hyson talking about, Oh, Isaiah, he's the best, He's he's
Speaker 1: the greatest, and oh you gotta love that Isaiah. I'm missing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, what's the little girl who does
Speaker 1: the thing when she say, make it makes sense, make sense.
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to call your little girl, I mean
Speaker 1: the woman forgive me. I'm old, so you know, but
Speaker 1: but anyway, it just it just what are the odds?
Speaker 1: What are the odds that a young man is named
Speaker 1: after you? And we know how hard it is to
Speaker 1: make it to the NBA. Right then he gets to
Speaker 1: the NBA then plays for the Boston Celtics and y'all
Speaker 1: got the same name. I mean that that that is
Speaker 1: that is some spooky kind of stuff that's going up
Speaker 1: when your universe stuff. So we we're gonna make the
Speaker 1: Celtics love Isaiah work with me. Nice best Kobe story
Speaker 1: you can share with us, best Kobe story that I
Speaker 1: can share with you. So I'm I'm in New York
Speaker 1: and uh Polinka, who I known since he was in
Speaker 1: college and we used to all Detroit team used to
Speaker 1: go up and play against you know the five five,
Speaker 1: you know, Chris and all them, and Polinka was was there.
Speaker 1: So now Polinka's representing Kobe and you know, Rob called
Speaker 1: me and he said, like, you know, Kobe really wants
Speaker 1: to talk to you, wants to you know, wants to
Speaker 1: you know, understand how you think. You know, I've told
Speaker 1: him a lot about you know, Detroit, the Bad Boys
Speaker 1: and everything else, and he wants to have a conversation
Speaker 1: with you. Now at that time, you know, Kobe is
Speaker 1: thinking about leaving LA too, and and he keeps saying
Speaker 1: it's not about the money. And in New York, all
Speaker 1: we had was a mid level to offer him. Now
Speaker 1: he didn't visit I don't know if he visited any
Speaker 1: other teams, but he flew to New York to meet
Speaker 1: us to talk about signing with the Knicks, and all
Speaker 1: we had to offer was the mid level. But he
Speaker 1: was really like, I gotta get out of LA and
Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm like, but Shock there right, And
Speaker 1: he was like, I I want to win it on
Speaker 1: my own without Shack. O my god, that don't make
Speaker 1: no sense. He goes, if I win it with Shack,
Speaker 1: then I don't think I'm gonna be able to rise
Speaker 1: the way I want to rise. And he says, so
Speaker 1: if if i'm if Shack is gone, or if I
Speaker 1: win it someplace else, then I can get to that
Speaker 1: next level or whatever level he was trying to get to.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I've never heard anybody like think
Speaker 1: like that. You know, that's it's kind of different. And
Speaker 1: Rob was sitting there and he goes, I told you this,
Speaker 1: he's a little different, you know. He I say, so
Speaker 1: you want to shoulder that burden all by yourself? It
Speaker 1: goes yeah. And and so now you know, he starts
Speaker 1: talking to me about the pistons and thinking and being
Speaker 1: and at that time, I don't know if y'all remember,
Speaker 1: but Kobe wasn't well liked based teammates. And he wasn't
Speaker 1: a guy that you know, hung out or anything like that.
Speaker 1: You know, very disciplined, very regimented, work at think and
Speaker 1: everything else. And he's like, you know, I I want
Speaker 1: people to like me. But at the same time, I
Speaker 1: don't want to change. And so I was like, don't change.
Speaker 1: I say, you're doing it the right way. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you can win without Shack though.
Speaker 1: That dude look me straight now eye and he goes,
Speaker 1: whether I'm which shack or not, He goes, I prefer
Speaker 1: to not be with him because I want to win
Speaker 1: it on my own. That's a good luck, young man.
Speaker 1: And and so that that's that's my Kobe story, right,
Speaker 1: and that that left an impression on me in terms
Speaker 1: of someone having a wheel and a determination, and when
Speaker 1: they lost to the Celtics in Boston that game seven,
Speaker 1: I think it was game six or seven, the first
Speaker 1: when the Celtics beat him, and if you remember, he
Speaker 1: was like six foot thirty or he had, he had
Speaker 1: like a really bad game, and in my mind, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be hard to get up that hill. And
Speaker 1: then the next year he comes back in the Stamped
Speaker 1: with a back to back boom boom without without shot
Speaker 1: five and wig gasol and then he does this right,
Speaker 1: So I was like, yeah, I got three with shiit act,
Speaker 1: but I got it. I got stamped the back to back. Now,
Speaker 1: I understood that feeling the back to back still kay
Speaker 1: to win one, but when you can come back and
Speaker 1: dominate again and let all y'all know I'm that dude,
Speaker 1: or again again and ain't no bs, that's what he
Speaker 1: was able to do. So I understood that feeling Kobe
Speaker 1: to the Knicks. Next question, oh, we had no shots,
Speaker 1: but talk of the idea in the respect right right
Speaker 1: that he would even entertain it, and that never got out,
Speaker 1: So you had breaking news on all the smoke got
Speaker 1: damn appreciate you if you got the stories that ain't
Speaker 1: got out. We know that. Jack. You should tell him
Speaker 1: the one about when you when you almost got ran
Speaker 1: out of this league where we're in ended. And yeah,
Speaker 1: remember that call you made to me and I called
Speaker 1: him commission up man. I forgot about that. You was out.
Speaker 1: I was done. It was done. You was done. I
Speaker 1: was done so many times. But you'll remember that. And
Speaker 1: and you you said, I called you from AL. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how I got in touch with you. And I
Speaker 1: called David Stern. I said you can't do that to him.
Speaker 1: I was done, you was out. I remember that, it
Speaker 1: was gone. That's how you got back in the league.
Speaker 1: I was done. You remember that, like yesterday? You should
Speaker 1: tell lest I actually forgot about that, but I remember
Speaker 1: it vividly now. Yeah, I remember, cause I was shit.
Speaker 1: I was trying to call everybody that I figured would
Speaker 1: help me at that time. Yeah. And AL say me,
Speaker 1: AL say, no, Isaiah saved I mean, I said I
Speaker 1: saved it, But AL say, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I said, I saved me, but AL connected me to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And and you got back out of the court. How
Speaker 1: mean how many weeks after that? Three? Thank you? I
Speaker 1: was in the mistance. You already suspended. He was gone.
Speaker 1: I was done. I wasn't home already. He wasn't suspended. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the wheels were greased and he was out. Huh. I
Speaker 1: don't I think I called uh ghostbusters. No, I ain't
Speaker 1: called ghostbusters. I ain't called ghostbus. Donnie Wall I remember
Speaker 1: Donnie wah Zeke and uh Mike Brown. That's some people
Speaker 1: that went to wharf on me that I did, I
Speaker 1: remember vividly remember. But the only one that got to
Speaker 1: David Starns the ear. Yeah, I went to that man's office.
Speaker 1: M hmm. I can't do that to him. That's dope.
Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. See me in it, I
Speaker 1: see me in it. Our show was gone too. I'm
Speaker 1: too money. I was gone. I've seen it. Oh done.
Speaker 1: If you can see one guest on our show, og,
Speaker 1: who would it be? Michael Jordan put him in the seat,
Speaker 1: Tim to come sit here and answer the question, whoever
Speaker 1: the person is, help us get us. That's out the question.
Speaker 1: Now you love it, shoe you let it jingle? Yeah? Yeah, y'all, y'all, y'all,
Speaker 1: I'm still side. Y'all's number, you know, y'all somebody that
Speaker 1: you can help us get on the show that you
Speaker 1: would like to see on our show. Because I didn't
Speaker 1: hit him a million times and that ain't going to play.
Speaker 1: That's how as quick as we wanted to. So here's
Speaker 1: real talk, right, We in this brotherhood shouldn't have to
Speaker 1: go to walk the loop post. Our job and our
Speaker 1: responsibility is to come here and help you preach. That
Speaker 1: is our responsibility. That classified as black in the you
Speaker 1: I ain't in the States of America. Our job is
Speaker 1: to come and help each other. Now that being said,
Speaker 1: he needs to sit here. Now who else? Who else?
Speaker 1: Who else would I want you to see? We got
Speaker 1: a co run. You just stopped off a co run.
Speaker 1: We have Magic Chuck and then you Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: How about this? Y'all deserve it? Thank you, I think,
Speaker 1: I mean thank you very much. I got a request though,
Speaker 1: because it's different from me, Like I've been knowing about
Speaker 1: this guy when his teammates my whole life, and I've
Speaker 1: been I've been in the tournaments where he saved me
Speaker 1: as a youngster, Joe Dumas He's Joe didn't know me
Speaker 1: since I was a kid. I'm planning then the Lake
Speaker 1: Charles tournaments, basketball tournaments. Joe is a legend. Yes, I
Speaker 1: would love to get a chance to pick his brain
Speaker 1: and get to know him because I never had a
Speaker 1: conversation with him. Yeah, he's someone that you's having this
Speaker 1: chair and he can be official season. Yes, you know
Speaker 1: he was the Pistons, right, he's in the league office.
Speaker 1: The bad Boys. The Sportsmanship Trophy, we're so bad. It's
Speaker 1: named after Joe. So the influence that we've had on
Speaker 1: this NBA that they don't give us credit for talk about, right,
Speaker 1: Joe would be great. Let me ask you one more question.
Speaker 1: I mean we're done, but I mean you're just so
Speaker 1: open right now. We may never get this opportunity again.
Speaker 1: Why do you think And this sitting down has been
Speaker 1: so eye opening, mind opening, and I've learned so much.
Speaker 1: Where did the bad narrative about you come from? Because
Speaker 1: I had the audacity to come into this league and
Speaker 1: ask for diversity. And I said to the media, when
Speaker 1: I came into the NBA, it was ninety nine point
Speaker 1: nine percent white male coverage, were no females, and it
Speaker 1: may be a one brother point one point one right,
Speaker 1: And and I said, I do not want to be
Speaker 1: judged or perceived only through the gaze of the white male.
Speaker 1: This is the eighty that that that, that that, And
Speaker 1: I went to the commissioner's office, well Stern already and
Speaker 1: charged him not to cut you off for this this.
Speaker 1: So I came in under Larry O'Brien and then Larry left,
Speaker 1: David came in and to Stern's credit, this is what
Speaker 1: Stern did. Big respected David Stern because what David Stern
Speaker 1: did for NBA basketball in to America is David Stern said,
Speaker 1: black players classified as black in the United States. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put them out front, your researcher Sports Illustrated. You
Speaker 1: can pull it up Sports Illustrated. On the cover of
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated, We're white America except the NBA's black players. Wow.
Speaker 1: That was the article that was the cover. And David
Speaker 1: Stern said, boom, I'm putting it there now. Now I'm
Speaker 1: falling up, and I'm saying, we need some black coverage.
Speaker 1: You know, we need some some brothers. You know where
Speaker 1: they at Detroit and it still may be to this day.
Speaker 1: I was making so much noise. They gave us two
Speaker 1: black beat writers, and I think Detroit at that time
Speaker 1: was the only team traveling with two black beat writers,
Speaker 1: Terry Foster who's a columnist now, Drew Sharp who passed away,
Speaker 1: became a columnist, Clifton Brown became a columnist, Brian Burrow
Speaker 1: World became a columnist, Jeanette Howard became a columnist. That
Speaker 1: was Detroit, traveling around the NBA and Detroit today, I
Speaker 1: think they still have two black beat writers on the
Speaker 1: beat now, and I think Beard just got promoted to
Speaker 1: a columnist or he may even be an editor. So
Speaker 1: why do I get so much trouble Because a lot
Speaker 1: of the white males at that time who were writing
Speaker 1: didn't like what I was saying, and they thought that
Speaker 1: I was coming out to their jobs or what have you.
Speaker 1: And back then, they painted all the pictures. They painted
Speaker 1: all the pictures. And not only did they paint the pictures,
Speaker 1: but after they so you would get interviewed, they would
Speaker 1: write down what you say, and then they would take
Speaker 1: it to an editor, and one hundred percent of the
Speaker 1: editors were white males, and then the editor would fatigue
Speaker 1: what she said and then they would put it in
Speaker 1: the newspaper. And that's what you said. Don't look nothing
Speaker 1: like what came out of my mouth. Right, sometimes it
Speaker 1: was right, sometimes it was wrong. Whatever. So, and then
Speaker 1: the second thing is, y'all former players at that time
Speaker 1: when I became vice president and president of the union
Speaker 1: agents at that time, we're taking twenty percent off the top. Damn.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. As a player contracts, they were taking fifty
Speaker 1: percent on endorsements. So I put in this thing called
Speaker 1: agent certification, and I cut the fees from twenty percent
Speaker 1: to a negotiated four and then we slotted the salaries
Speaker 1: and we uniformed the contract in terms of language. I
Speaker 1: retired in ninety four, then locked y'all out in ninety five.
Speaker 1: He said, they locked it out, and he winked, damn
Speaker 1: one more time. I retired in ninety four. They locked
Speaker 1: you out ninety five, and then they started clawing back
Speaker 1: and taking everything that you once had. And then they
Speaker 1: start putting other people in place, start between the agent's
Speaker 1: narrative and some of the scriptwriters. And so I want
Speaker 1: I want you to go back and look up this word.
Speaker 1: It's called hegemony. H E G O O m N.
Speaker 1: Y y'all get that fun you know I'm gonna need it.
Speaker 1: Hegemony and the Hedgemond, right, the scriptwriters, those who create
Speaker 1: the narrative, those who influence, those who tell you not
Speaker 1: to like me, and like that one. You don't know
Speaker 1: why you don't like me. You just know why. It's
Speaker 1: just something I don't know. Didn't they look for any reason?
Speaker 1: You know, you know, you know, but it's always whatever
Speaker 1: it is, right. But you remember that word, and you
Speaker 1: go back and you look at a geminy and put
Speaker 1: that in your definitions and start talking to people about it.
Speaker 1: But bring that that we're back into play, because that's
Speaker 1: what's happening in the NBA and these narratives and these
Speaker 1: stories and everything else. You know, from an educational standpoint,
Speaker 1: we need to know what the scriptwriters are saying, how
Speaker 1: we being scripted, how we're being spoken to and spoken about.
Speaker 1: The last thing I'm leading with in terms of the
Speaker 1: thing that I attacked and still attacked today. Language carries
Speaker 1: outside of the playing field. So these ugly labels that
Speaker 1: they attached to the Detroit Pistons. Bior Lambier has never
Speaker 1: been called a thug in his life. Grew up in
Speaker 1: the suburbs, his father ran a fortune five hundred company.
Speaker 1: He gets to the Detroit Pistons and they called Bil
Speaker 1: Lambier a thug, and we know what thug means outside
Speaker 1: of the game of basketball. So these dirty labels that
Speaker 1: they attached to us right in all way of play,
Speaker 1: and then Detroit being the city that it is in
Speaker 1: all black city. So the language that they used around us,
Speaker 1: in the narrative that they painted around us, right, And
Speaker 1: when you try to refute those labels, bad person, you're
Speaker 1: a bad person. You got pushed down further and further, right,
Speaker 1: So you know the I had never been called a
Speaker 1: thug in my life, and I've said to several writers
Speaker 1: along the way, don't ever call me a beast, Don't
Speaker 1: ever call me an animal. Don't use dehumanizing words in
Speaker 1: terms to describe the way I play. That's not who
Speaker 1: I am, That's not what I represent. You're smart, you
Speaker 1: went to college, you're a journalist, you have a degree,
Speaker 1: you have a pretty vast vocabulary. You can find better
Speaker 1: words and language to use around the way I play.
Speaker 1: So I get drafted, I'm a restricted free agent. Then
Speaker 1: I become free. I'd let that sit with you for
Speaker 1: a minute. After I gained my freedom, now I can
Speaker 1: go anywhere. Okay, Now you can fantasize about owning me.
Speaker 1: You can trade me, you can bet on me, you
Speaker 1: can gamble on me, you can you can say words
Speaker 1: to me inside this place that no one would dare
Speaker 1: say outside of this place to me. So in a
Speaker 1: very slippery slope here, and the dehumanization of the NBA
Speaker 1: player needs to be uplifted. Now. I'm gonna give Adam
Speaker 1: Silver a big hand because what he said the other day,
Speaker 1: which he's getting heavily criticized for in terms of load management. Right,
Speaker 1: the first word that came out of Adam Silver's mouth
Speaker 1: was these guys are what human? These are human beings.
Speaker 1: That's what he said. Oh oh oh they these got
Speaker 1: these guys ain't human they player? No, no, no, that
Speaker 1: commissioner is right. He wants to treat them like human being.
Speaker 1: And he actually used the word human being. And you
Speaker 1: have one player right now who just left Brooklyn, and
Speaker 1: he keeps saying, don't dehumanize me. Words carry weight. Words
Speaker 1: carry weight. And it's important how you define rea talk
Speaker 1: about me. I don't accept it. I push back on
Speaker 1: a lot of them. No, you can't speak to me
Speaker 1: that way. You can't talk to me that way. You
Speaker 1: can't say this to me. No, I'm not that. Oh well,
Speaker 1: when you talk to Isaiah Man, you know that. Now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you come correct. Yes, I'm not accepting you calling me
Speaker 1: the N word, y'all can say. Don't look in the dictionary.
Speaker 1: This is what it says. Right, don't call me that. Now.
Speaker 1: If you want to call your friend now, you want
Speaker 1: to call them back, but don't call me that. Because
Speaker 1: when I was growing up, if you call me that,
Speaker 1: we're fighting. I'm fighting you every day no matter how
Speaker 1: much melan you have in your skin or the lack
Speaker 1: of melan and you have in your skin. You call
Speaker 1: me that, it's on Don't call me that on the internet.
Speaker 1: Don't call me that on social media. Never ever ever
Speaker 1: call your mama that. Don't call me that, right, I'm
Speaker 1: not that. And how we speak to each other, how
Speaker 1: we treat each other, how we interact with each other,
Speaker 1: real talk. Taking it all the way back to the gangs.
Speaker 1: They weren't called gangs until they got labeled gangs. They
Speaker 1: were organizations in the community teaching us how to be
Speaker 1: upstanding citizens, live, act, treat each other. Then Big brother
Speaker 1: put some stuff in our neighborhood. Big Brothers started doing
Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff in our neighborhoods, and it's
Speaker 1: all documented. But you know the words that are being
Speaker 1: used right now. We can do better. Absolutely, man. We
Speaker 1: appreciate you, especially straight off a flight to come here
Speaker 1: and sit down and spend some time with us, and
Speaker 1: like I said, and just enlighten us. You know, I
Speaker 1: learned a lot today and I appreciate I got some
Speaker 1: free stuff. Oh yeah, you got some gear? Oh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: you know, but this is one thing that all of
Speaker 1: us won't right, don't get me no money, Okay, we
Speaker 1: won't gear. Do you want gear? You want the money.
Speaker 1: We take the gear over the money, right, gear. We
Speaker 1: got some man scared, We got your body buffer. You know,
Speaker 1: we got some all the smoke T shirt and sweatshirts,
Speaker 1: just some limited edition all the smoke gear for you.
Speaker 1: Will appreciate you showing up. Thanks you the plane, O G.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate so much. Man, We appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Thank I send y'all bottle of champagne. Yeah yeah, well
Speaker 1: that's a rap man. Isaiah Thomas, the one and only,
Speaker 1: the real Zeke uh All the Smoke, Showtime Basketball YouTube
Speaker 1: and the iHeart Platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next
Speaker 1: week