1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Futuro Investigators Futuro in Bastia. 2 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: We should mention that parts of this story might be 3 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 2: disturbing for some of our listeners. It is July of 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: two thousand and seven in the capital of El Salvador. 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: A twenty four year old woman named Deodora Basquez is 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: at work alone at the end of the day. She's 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: nine months pregnant and she's an active labor. Without thinking, 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 2: Deodora grabs the phone and dials nine one one. 9 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 3: Someone answers. 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: Deodora explains her situation to the operator. She needs an ambulance. 11 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 4: Hurry, let's plicata embarrassta. 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: She waits for help to arrive, but there is no 13 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 2: ambulance and the pain is getting worse. No you go, 14 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: Deo Dora calls nine one one a couple of more times, but. 15 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 3: Nothing. 16 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: She waits all alone in labor. Then she gets the 17 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: urge to use the restroom. When she gets there, the 18 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: lights don't work in the dark stall. Theodora begins to 19 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 2: pull down her underwear ian and when her hands reach 20 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 2: her knees, she feels something from inside of her dropped, 21 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: and then everything goes black. 22 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 4: Yes momento. 23 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: Deo Dora loses consciousness. She's hemorrhaging now and blood begins 24 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: to pool beneath. 25 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 4: Her Mayo noo. 26 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: She can't remember if it was five minutes or an hour. 27 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: All she knows is that while unconscious, someone finally arrives. 28 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: But it's not the paramedics and it's not an ambulance. 29 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: It's the police and a federal forensic team. Me So 30 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: when the police arrive, you are covered in blood and 31 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: your daughter as well. And the police arrive and the 32 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 2: first thing they do is to put handcuffs on You see, 33 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: in the haze of her consciousness, she doesn't understand what's happening. 34 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: Where are they taking her? And where is her baby? 35 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 5: Majev Ami Deodora would soon find out she'd been arrested 36 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 5: for what authorities assumed was an abortion and the killing 37 00:02:51,880 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 5: of her own baby. What can a meu with anam 38 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 5: from Fuduro Media, It's Latino Usa. 39 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: I'm Marieno Hosa Today producer Monica Morales Garcia, and I 40 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 2: traveled to El Salvador, a country with one of the 41 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 2: strictest abortion laws in the world. We meet people supporting 42 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: the criminalization of abortion and others who have built a 43 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: movement against it. Through interviews, documents, and archival materials, Our 44 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: Investigation paints a clear and disturbing picture of the women 45 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: who suffer most when a country stretches the definition of 46 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: abortion to include miscarriages and stillbirds and then bans them 47 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: all without exceptions. Earlier this year, Monica and I traveled 48 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: to San Salvador, which is the capital of El Salvador. 49 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 2: It's a special trip for both of us. Last time 50 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: I was here was twenty five years ago on a 51 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: reporting trip. I'm Maria Inojsa is still a country that 52 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: is wounded and bleeding, and the women here still long 53 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: to be safe and live in peace. 54 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 6: And it's my first time here in the country. My 55 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,559 Speaker 6: family fled back in the eighties before I was born, 56 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 6: so what I know about this place comes from sad 57 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 6: stories passed down to me. But Landing, now, all right, 58 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 6: I'm going to popular for I knew I would bring 59 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 6: back stories of my own. 60 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: We came to speak with women who have been incarcerated 61 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 2: for what doctors here called obstetric emergencies, things like a 62 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: miscarriage or not beverdida, or going into labor alone, hemorrhaging, 63 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: or having a still birth. Emergencies that can have extreme 64 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: consequences in a country under a total abortion ban. 65 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 6: And though having a miscarriage or a still birth is 66 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 6: not technically illegal, here, medical professionals, police and judges avoid 67 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 6: making distinctions to steer clear of criminal prosecution for being 68 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 6: involved in what the government might define as an abortion. 69 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: What does that look like in practice? Well, reports show 70 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: doctors and nurses can end up calling the police when 71 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: women are having a miscarriage. 72 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 3: Let that sink in. 73 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 6: But before we get to our destination, let's just take 74 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 6: a moment for some historical contexts. 75 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: Though women have always been politically active in El Salvador, 76 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 2: there have been high highs and low lows. Because you see, 77 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: in the late nineteen eighties and early nineties, the radical 78 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: feminist movement here was. 79 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 3: Boomi Salo Sisicamnistan. 80 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 2: It's a period that coincided with the country's twelve year 81 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: civil war. But by the millennium the movement was waning, 82 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: and it was during that low period of feminism when 83 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: abortion laws got. 84 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: Stricter de concepts. 85 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: It wouldn't take long for advocates on the left to 86 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: notice that women were being incarcerated because of stillbert's and miscarriages, 87 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 2: and once again the feminist movement began to grow. I'll 88 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 2: never forget arriving in nineteen eighty nine during the offensive 89 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: of the leftist gorillas, and we were here to report 90 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: after the war, and now I'm back years after that. 91 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: It'sachi. 92 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: We make our first stop at the offices of a 93 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: feminist collective. Their offices include the AGROUPACNALI translated it's the 94 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: Citizens Group for the deep Penalization of abortion. 95 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 6: They fight to get women at prison and they're working 96 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 6: to change the abortion landscape in Elsa, Vador altogether. The 97 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 6: offices of the feminist collective are in a residential part 98 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 6: of the city. It's a white, two story house with 99 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 6: large white gates wrapped in barbed wire. There's an indoor 100 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 6: courtyard that looks out to the Salvadoran sky. 101 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 2: Okay, so they have writing on the wall. It says 102 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: we build the feminist movement. 103 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 6: The building also hosts a feminist radio station and lawyer's offices. 104 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 6: We sit down and wait to meet with Margarita, a 105 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 6: young woman who was incarcerated after unintentionally delivering her baby 106 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 6: in a toilet. She was released in twenty twenty three. 107 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 4: Berta Mango Marguerite is thirty one. 108 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 6: She has brown hair that goes past her waist. She's 109 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 6: wearing a black kneelength skirt and a white T shirt 110 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 6: with a big Chanel logo. She's very curly and sweet. 111 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 6: You would never guess that she spent almost a decade 112 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 6: in prison. 113 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 4: It's usque you were twenty years old. 114 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,359 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 115 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: Back in twenty thirteen, Margherita was dating an older guy. 116 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: She was convinced he was the love of her life. 117 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: But a couple of months in she got pregnant and 118 00:08:52,679 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: as soon as she told him, he disappeared. Ef Margherita says, 119 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: he's a coward. You didn't even say anything, and one 120 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: day he just left. 121 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 6: So for months, says her belly grew. Her neighbors from 122 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 6: a small rural town would side eye her color seen 123 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 6: in midwensa shameless But this was her first pregnancy, so 124 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 6: it didn't matter what people said. She was going to 125 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 6: be a mother and she was going to enjoy it, Sola. 126 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 6: And when she got to eight months, she was feeling great. 127 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 6: She was about to meet her baby until a very 128 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 6: hot day in September twenty thirteen. Butono senti dolor. She's 129 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 6: at home. She goes to the bathroom, which is outdoors 130 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 6: basically a latrine with a septic tank that is about 131 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 6: ten feet deep is Margherita pushes and feels a. 132 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 4: Drop a stica. 133 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 2: So you give birth in the latrine and the umbilical 134 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: cord detached, which means that you're now bleeding. 135 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 6: See her baby girl had just been born and fallen 136 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 6: into the septic tank. Her mom calls the police for help. 137 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 6: In Graciados. 138 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 7: De la Fos Sectica. 139 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 6: The police arrive and are able to get the baby 140 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 6: out of the tank. Margharita's baby is alive yo, But. 141 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: Just like in the story of Deal who you heard 142 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: from at the start of the show, the police assume 143 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: the worst that Margharita had given birth and thrown her 144 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 2: baby in the toilet in an attempt to kill her 145 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: own newborn. The next thing Margharita remembers is waking up 146 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: in the hospital, handcuffed, accused of trying to murder her baby. 147 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 2: El Salvador has prosecuted more than one hundred and eighty 148 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: women over the past two decades for having obstetric emergencies, 149 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: which the government labeled abortion and homicide. According to the 150 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: Feminist Collective they've helped at least seventy three women regain 151 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: their freedom. Margarita is one of them. 152 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 8: All the women that we have represented and we are 153 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 8: representing right now is women from poor origins. That's the 154 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 8: reality of the poor woman here in the Savador. 155 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 6: This is at Castellano, a social worker at the Feminist 156 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 6: Collective where we met Margarita. 157 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 8: Is more like sending a message from the system that 158 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 8: they do not want anyone getting an abortion, even though 159 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 8: it's a miscarriage. They don't care. You're going to go 160 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 8: to jail. 161 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 3: But why just poor women? 162 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 8: That's how the system works. Unfortunately, here in the Savador, 163 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 8: the criminalized poverty a lot here in the country. All 164 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 8: the women are poor, obviously that they are criminalized. 165 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 6: Artruau and others at the Citizens Organization have worked to 166 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 6: prove that women who are incarcerated for unintentionally losing their babies, 167 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 6: they're not criminals. 168 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 2: They're not at fault for not perfectly completing their pregnancies. 169 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: In fact, they are victims of physically and emotionally painful 170 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: medical emergencies, and instead of getting help, they get punished 171 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: by the system. 172 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 8: If you don't have access to education, if you don't 173 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 8: have access to a paid job. If you are in 174 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 8: the rural side of the country, then you will get 175 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 8: criminalized for miscarrying. If you can pay it an abortion, 176 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 8: you will go to another country to make it happen. 177 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 8: You avoid the law. If you have a miscarriage and 178 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 8: you are from a family that can pay for private doctors, 179 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 8: they won't call the police. But if you go to 180 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 8: a public system, they will call the police. Even though 181 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 8: that they don't have to call the police, they will do. 182 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: It, and the doctor or the nurse will call the 183 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: police because they're afraid that if they don't, they could 184 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: end up in prison. 185 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 8: Yes, exactly. 186 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 6: By the time Margharita began her prison sentence, there was 187 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 6: already a feminist movement in the making to protect and 188 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 6: defend women in her situation. 189 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: So because of the activists, Margharita's defense was successful. Her 190 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: thirty year sentence was reduced to nine years and nine months. 191 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 3: She was released in twenty twenty three. 192 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: But despite being out for two years, Margharita has yet 193 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 2: to see or meet her twelve year old daughter, the 194 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: baby who was born in the latrine. Yes, I asked 195 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: Margharita if her daughter is aware that her mother is 196 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: trying to meet her. Margharita says people have turned her 197 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: daughter against her. Who took your daughter from you? 198 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 6: With el papa? 199 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: Mm hmm, i'l go in no memopa. I was not 200 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: expecting that. 201 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 2: The man who left her, the coward as she called him, 202 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: he took her daughter and then moved out of the country. 203 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: But Margharita says she'll never stop trying to get her back. 204 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 6: Now the Feminist Collective is working to reconnect them, but 205 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 6: it hasn't been easy. Margherita won't lose hope though, I 206 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 6: said oka. Reuniting with her daughter is her constant prayer 207 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 6: to God. She says, wherever her daughter is, she will 208 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 6: look for her. 209 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 8: The woman here, their resistant the system is something that 210 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 8: you need to be proud obviously, and you need to 211 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 8: admire because they're trying to make a change that is 212 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 8: not welcoming on society. But they're struggling to make it 213 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 8: and they're advancing in their fight. 214 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: We're going to take a break and when we come 215 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: back what it means for El Salvador to recognize life 216 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 2: from the moment of conception. 217 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 8: Changing the law for a Fortunately, there is not much hope. 218 00:15:49,640 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: Stay with US notes, Hey, we're back. 219 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: You just heard the stories of Theo and Margarita to 220 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: women who have been victimized and incarcerated because of Al 221 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: Salvador's total abortion ban. Latino USA producer Monta Moreles Garcia 222 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: and I are going to get back now to Theo's story, 223 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: but before that, the backstory of how and why El 224 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: Salvador ended up with one of the world's strictest abortion bands. 225 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety seven, El Salvador made all abortions illegal 226 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: with no exceptions. It was a big story and it 227 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: was covered on the Salvadoran news show in Trevista Aldia. 228 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: Back in the nineties, laf. 229 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: It didn't matter if a pregnancy was the result of 230 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 2: rape or incest, and it didn't matter if the woman's 231 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: life was in danger. 232 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 6: As we heard from Marduro at the Feminist Collective, the 233 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 6: law in Al Salvador doesn't differentiate between abortion, a miscarriage, stillbirth, 234 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 6: or any useterric emergency. Any termination of pregnancy could make 235 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 6: you a criminal and could lead to an aggravated homicide 236 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 6: charge with up to fifty years in prison. Yeah fifty. 237 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 6: A key actor in El Salvador's criminalization of miscarriages is 238 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 6: Julia Regina de cardinal. 239 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 9: Ce Saclino, Peruento, no emperasos como pasa and La Borto. 240 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 6: She's one of the most influential anti abortion advocates in 241 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 6: the country and she believes personhood begins at. 242 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 9: Conception okastra constitucioso man the moment concept. 243 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 2: Julia Rehina's organization is called ci A Lavida or Yes 244 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: to Life, and thanks in part to her, the Salvadoran 245 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: Constitution was amended in nineteen ninety nine to recognize the 246 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 2: quote right to life from the moment of conception. It's 247 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 2: an addition to the Salvadoran Constitution that solidified the no 248 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 2: exceptions ban from the previous year. Julia Rahina is a 249 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: force in the anti abortion movement here, so of course 250 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: we needed to speak with her, but her organization declined 251 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: our in person interview request, saying we would be biased 252 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,479 Speaker 2: against them. That didn't stop us from taking a chance 253 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: and cold calling her. You won't hear Julia Rahina during 254 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: our phone call because we didn't receive permission to record it. 255 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: Julia began her career as a singer, writing songs like 256 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: Gracies Bornibida. 257 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, thats. 258 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: A song about a mother who gives up her child 259 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: for adoption so they could both have a better life. 260 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 2: She then founded that organization that pushed to amend the 261 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: Salvadoran constitution. As abortion became more and more politicized in 262 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, her organization narrowed its focus on abortion 263 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: and eventually became the most prominent anti abortion group in 264 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: El Salvador. During our very brief chat, Uya Rahina told 265 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: me that she considers herself an activist who defends life. 266 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: She told me she's not anti anything, She's pro pro 267 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 2: woman and pro baby. The call lasted about seven minutes, 268 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: and halfway through Rahina questioned my use of the term 269 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: obstetric emergencies. I asked if we could sit down and 270 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: talk more in person, because I wanted to hear her 271 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: point of view in order to understand this story fully. 272 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: But Huya Rahina didn't want to meet with us. 273 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 6: Let's se Julia Rhina's influence and her anti abortion views 274 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 6: are everywhere. Maria and I heard it for ourselves from 275 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 6: several regular Salvadorans throughout the city, like an older woman 276 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 6: who firmly stated that women have no right to end 277 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 6: a pregnancy. 278 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: Do you believe a woman should have the right to 279 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: choose an abortion? 280 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 6: A young man whose mother was raped and here I am, 281 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 6: he says. 282 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 4: Yotepo Testimona Mia mama fa your lave, Yeah, yes, so yah. 283 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 6: And another woman who never told her son he was 284 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 6: the product of rape. 285 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 3: You were raped, ellosal. 286 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: But Huya Rahena's influence doesn't stop there. In twenty thirteen, 287 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: a pregnant woman with lupus lead it to the government 288 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 2: for a life saving abortion, and she was denied. 289 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 7: The woman named Beatrice is carrying a twenty six year 290 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 7: old fetus missing large parts of the brain and skull. 291 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: Urja Rechina praised that Salvadoran ruling, saying that quote abortion 292 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: is a cruel and bloody murder in which not only 293 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: does the child die, but the mother is hurt physically 294 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 2: and mentally end quote. Months later, Biatris gave birth by 295 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 2: emergency sea section. The fetus died five hours after birth. Later, 296 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: this high profile case Biatris Versus and Salvador, made it 297 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: to the Inter American Court of Human Rights, and the 298 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: international court determined, among other things, that El Salvador failed 299 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 2: to guarantee Biatris's human rights. 300 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 6: But the stories we've told you Thales and Margaritas, they 301 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 6: didn't want to terminate their pregnancies. There are poor women 302 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 6: with very little access to healthcare, and they've lost their 303 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 6: babies because of an obstetric emergency, and instead of getting 304 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 6: the medical care they needed, the government punished them, accused 305 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 6: them of murder, and refused to believe women. There are 306 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 6: no official numbers on how many women are in prison 307 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 6: for obstetric emergencies that are labeled as abortions and homicides. 308 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 6: What we do know is that lawyers, feminists, and women 309 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 6: who have spent their time incarcerated all suspect that there 310 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 6: is a massive undercount. We reached out to the government 311 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 6: of Elsavadad for a comment to this story, but we 312 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 6: never heard back. 313 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: On our second day in Elsalvdor Monica and I went 314 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 2: to La Casa de Muhire's leave. It is the house 315 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: of Freedomdal is the woman who was at work when 316 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: she went into labor alone and then spent a decade 317 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: in prison. Now she's an activist and an organizer at 318 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: this house, which is an acute middle class neighborhood in 319 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: San Salvador. Dal now runs her own recovery house to 320 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: support formerly incarcerated women just like her. The women come 321 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: here to get therapy, to connect with jobs, and to 322 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: learn things like how to send an email. No task 323 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: is too big or too small. Dale is beaming as 324 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: she greets. 325 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 6: Us as we sap into the recovery house. But it's 326 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 6: big tiles and mahogany molding that introduces us to Zulema, 327 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 6: who's in the kitchen. 328 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 2: Suleima is making a cad and well, the smell of 329 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 2: that beef stew is reaching every corner of the house. 330 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 6: I mean, Suleima is one of the founding members of 331 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 6: this place. And she joke said she's also the treasurer, 332 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 6: the theater director, the dance teacher, and the basketball coach. 333 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 6: She does it all. 334 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: Mama Suleima spent years in prison. Now she lives at 335 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: this recovery house with her eleven year old daughter, Jimena, 336 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: along with Jimena's pet rabbit bugs Bunny. Sulema says is 337 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: leave it is has given her life autonomy. 338 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 6: We keep walking to the lush green backyard with Deal, 339 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 6: where we settle under the shaded patio that worded off 340 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 6: the Salvador and heat birds car and crow well bugs 341 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 6: Bunny the pet rabbit roams around the yard. 342 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: And here Dale continues her story. What happened, in fact, 343 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: after she fainted in that dark toilet stall, all alone, 344 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: covered in blood, the moment when the police assumed and 345 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: labeled her a murderer. Yea, that's where the torture began, 346 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: she says. That night, Dale, barely conscious, remembers not being 347 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: taken to the hospital right away. She could hear the 348 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: officers arguing about which holding cell they were going to 349 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 2: take her to. 350 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 4: Ala Bartolina de Centennario, Ianto says, Mama. 351 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 2: When they got her to the cell, the police officers 352 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: handcuffed her. 353 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 5: Jo then. 354 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 3: I see Theo gets up. 355 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 2: From her seat to show us how she pushes her 356 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 2: chair behind her, wrists intertwined and stretches her arms way over. 357 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 6: Her head, jokes Colgar. 358 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: They hung her from the highest point, her toes barely 359 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: touching the floor, blood pulling underneath hersa marine. She thought 360 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 2: she would die in that holding cell, CARU. From that 361 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: point on, all she remembers is flashes of time police 362 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 2: saying it was better if she died in the hospital 363 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 2: where she had been taken now Yo, And then all 364 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 2: she saw was bright. 365 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 5: Whitea the Camaro. 366 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: Peranda journalists, TV cameras, microphones all surrounded her. 367 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 3: Hospital bed Para ke Matasui. 368 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: They wanted to get their photo of the woman who 369 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: had just been arrested for killing her child, just in 370 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 2: time for the midday news, and that is how Theo 371 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: learned that her little girl didn't make it. 372 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 4: Memorio Dietmundosima. 373 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: I felt like I had died, like the world had 374 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 2: fallen on top of me, and I couldn't move. 375 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 4: Pedro Es. 376 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: Deo was sentenced to thirty years in prison for losing 377 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 2: her baby when she went into labor alone with no 378 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 2: medical assistance, after her repeated calls to nine one one 379 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 2: for help went unanswered. Until this day, no one knows 380 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: why or when or how Dale's baby girl died. 381 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 6: Those story is the story of so many other women 382 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 6: of her generation in Elsa, Vada. They grew up in 383 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 6: a rural part of the country in the nineties, when 384 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 6: the country was coming out of a civil war. The 385 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 6: unemployment rate among those living at the national poverty line 386 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 6: was sixty percent, with over half of that population earning 387 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 6: less than two dollars a day, and it was common 388 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 6: for children to drop out of school and help support 389 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 6: their families. So that's exactly what they had to do. 390 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 6: She was twelve years old when she took a job 391 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 6: as a domestic worker taking care of children not much 392 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 6: younger than. 393 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: Her Mirmanham Jesa and Cassano john Us. 394 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 6: She was scared of her fate as a teenager if 395 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 6: she stayed under her parents' roof, and most likely would 396 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 6: mean an early marriage, a husband and children to take 397 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 6: care of, the same path her sisters and her mother 398 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 6: had followed. 399 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 4: Perro Jomua Cassa me Mimi Bao. 400 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 2: Says, that's how Salvador and girls are raised. Their priorities 401 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 2: are God, husband and children in that order, and a 402 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: woman's domain they're taught is in the home. Deo's mother 403 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 2: was a prime example of that. She had been a 404 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 2: wife since she was fourteen years old. 405 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 4: Mimama Paso beentice Hana de suvida in trim Barasada ilando Latansia. 406 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 6: Theyll did the math one time and realized that her 407 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 6: mother had spent twenty six years of her life pregnant 408 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 6: or nursing, from ages fifteen all the way to forty one. 409 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I said, I said, The tears up and she 410 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 2: tells us her mother's story. You Stodia, what choice did 411 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: her mother have as a girl. 412 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 6: That's what happens to girls who come from poor families 413 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 6: like there, like her sisters, her mother, in a country 414 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 6: where a woman's worth is all wrapped up in motherhood 415 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 6: and being a wife and being of service, life can 416 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 6: just happen to you without you having any control. 417 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: When we come back, what happens to Theo in prison 418 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: and how she became the face of an international campaign 419 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: to free incarcerated Salvadoran women. 420 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: Somebody stay with us, not bayes welcome back. 421 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: Before the Breakdale invited me and producer Monica Morales Garcia 422 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: into La Casa de Muhies Libes, the recovery house in 423 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: al Salvador for women who have been released from prison 424 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: after having a miscarriage or complications giving birth. They are 425 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: in a country with extremely strict abortion rules and where 426 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: the mere definition of an abortion is stretched beyond its meaning. 427 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: We're going to go back now to Theo's place, the 428 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: recovery house that she runs in the capitol. 429 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 5: When you end up in prison, what happens Andre depression gaze. 430 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: The first three years in prison, Dale fell into a 431 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 2: deep depressions. She just couldn't bear the thought of her 432 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: baby girl being gone. Remember, she never even got a 433 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 2: chance to see her baby ever. It all felt so surreal. 434 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 2: In prison, there was the target of beatings by fellow 435 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: female inmates when they found out that she had been 436 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 2: charged with killing her baby, despite the fact that she 437 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: hadn't done so. 438 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 6: In prison, the social hierarchy of inmates reflects the anti 439 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 6: abortion Culturequestro massa matador, Yes, so you can be a 440 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 6: murderer or kidnapper and it doesn't matter. 441 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: Tells us that if a woman comes in and the 442 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 2: rest of the prisoners find out that she had been 443 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: accused of murdering her baby, she would then be beaten, robbed, 444 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: and spit on her face. 445 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 6: The physical and verbal abuse got so bad that she 446 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 6: was put in solitary confinement for three months. 447 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: Deal was then transferred to a different part of the 448 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: prison where she was actually able to take classes critical thinking, 449 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: problem solving, the Steve rus So self love classes, multiple 450 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 2: classes in the arts, dancing. 451 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 6: And then on a random day in twenty thirteen, five 452 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 6: years into her sentence, she was asked to meet with 453 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 6: a lawyer in a private room. There were sixteen other 454 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 6: women in the room inside the prison. They knew some 455 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 6: of them. Why are you in prison, the lawyer asked, unadro, drugs, robbery, 456 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 6: homicide ISAA. 457 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 2: None of them said that they were in prison because 458 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: the government had accused them of homicide, because they had 459 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 2: an obstetric emergency. The lawyer then looked at all seventeen 460 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 2: women and he said, Oh, this. 461 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 4: Is tanaqui purun casore laciondo laborto. 462 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 2: You're all here because of a connection to abortion, and 463 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: this meeting, theo says, would change the course of her life. 464 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 2: The lawyer they met with was working with that citizens 465 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 2: Group for the Deep Penalization of Abortion. We met them 466 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 2: at the feminist collective that we visited earlier in the story. 467 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 6: Since two thousand and nine, they had been working a 468 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 6: free a handful of women who had been imprisoned, and 469 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 6: sometimes it worked, but other times the process took so 470 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 6: long that by the time they won appeals, the women 471 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 6: had finished serving their sentences. 472 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 2: So this time the lawyer said they would try a 473 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 2: different strategy, one that involved those seventeen women at that 474 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: first meeting. 475 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 6: The campaign was called Lassiete or the Seventeen, and it 476 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 6: took over the debate around the country and internationally, even 477 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 6: producing songs. 478 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 5: Vivasi Lavarma in fier No boys sing Majo rason ni vestigason. 479 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 6: Maze, songs that said I scream, I scream, I scream 480 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 6: for them, where is the crime? The Feminist Collective and 481 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 6: other international organizations now requested the pardon of the seventeen women. 482 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 2: Seventeen women who had been wrongfully incarcerated between nineteen ninety 483 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 2: nine and twenty eleven and convicted to up to forty 484 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 2: years in prison for reporting an obstetric emergency, a miscarriage 485 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 2: or a still birth to the police. The group lasd 486 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 2: siate would gain national and then international attention and deo 487 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 2: she would become the face of Las d SI in 488 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 2: the national campaign to set them free. This is a 489 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 2: distress signal from Amnesty International. 490 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 6: Please help. My sister's name is Theodora Fasquez. 491 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 2: The government of El. 492 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: Salvador has sentenced her to thirty years for having a miscarriage. 493 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 6: It took four years, but in twenty seventeen, Afterdale had 494 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 6: served a third of her thirty year sentence, the feminist 495 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 6: organizations brought her case before a Salvadoran judge. Their request 496 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 6: Belle's freedom and a declaration of her innocence. 497 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: Little number. Surrounded by media, Dale was brought to the 498 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 2: court by two masked guards, one on each side. She 499 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: wore a leopard print top jeans, and her wrists were 500 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: handcuffed in front of her. In the courtroom, women from 501 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 2: different feminist organizations cheered her on. She smiled and hugged 502 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 2: some of them before she sat down to make her 503 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 2: case to the judge. 504 00:37:51,160 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 4: Mon milverta can make concier milvertin bourquet so innocente fort familiato. 505 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 2: Deodora pleaded for her freedom, but it didn't work. The whole. 506 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 4: Met senate. 507 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 6: The judge rejected her plea and sent the back to prison. 508 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 6: That felt like she had been sentenced all over again 509 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 6: until about a month later. 510 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 5: Pres. 511 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 6: After a holiday recess, the judge came back. 512 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 9: For Post and Libert. 513 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 6: And decided to set their free ju. 514 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 2: The day she was real least everyone who supported her 515 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 2: was there, the feminist organizations, journalists, her own familyo Dell 516 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 2: was ready for a new start. 517 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 3: She had big ideas. 518 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 2: She wanted to help other women just like her, and 519 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 2: that's why she helped build the recovery house called Muhes 520 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 2: LIBZ free women, where women like her can find a 521 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 2: safe place after prisono ilodramas she was going to become 522 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,320 Speaker 2: a feminist activist herself, part of that long tradition of 523 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 2: feminismo Salvo. 524 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 4: Juna moher tivista feminista. 525 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 2: And since that day that there was released, she hasn't 526 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 2: stopped and doesn't have plans to. 527 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 6: Today, El Salvador maintains its total abortion ban with no exceptions. 528 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,919 Speaker 6: Despite international bodies like the Inter American Commission on Human 529 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 6: Rights warning of human rights violations, its recommendations have had 530 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 6: zero effects so far. The same goes for the feminist 531 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 6: collective's constant legal battles against the state. 532 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 2: And Salvadoran President Nai Bukele. He shows no signs of 533 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 2: changing these harsh abortion laws. In a Univision interview in 534 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four with journalist Jorge Ramos, Bukele acknowledged the 535 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 2: women of LASiS. In that interview, Bukele almost admits, keyword almost, 536 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 2: that Lassie may have been unfairly incarcerated. Clos's translation to 537 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 2: what the president said is that the women were persecuted 538 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 2: and that the country needs to start looking at the 539 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 2: real problems it has pass but Buke ended by reaffirming 540 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 2: that he remains against abortion. 541 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 6: The Savadoran feminists we spoke with, like Mariana Moira, say 542 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 6: they don't expect Elsa Vada to change its anti abortion 543 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 6: laws for as long as Bucele is in charge. 544 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 2: What is the interest of this politic of denying due 545 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 2: process to women in obstetric emergencies. What is the reasoning 546 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 2: behind treating them as if there are gang members, murderers, terrorists, 547 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 2: drug dealers. 548 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 3: What's the logic behind that? 549 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 7: No, I mean lochico, apparentimentrosia I mocho. 550 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,879 Speaker 2: Mariana Moidra told us that there's seemingly no logic as 551 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 2: to why the laws. 552 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 6: Don't change, But when you take a closer look, she says, 553 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 6: there are economic and political interests that play here. 554 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 7: I interre is a political economics, petras, news and conscios. 555 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 6: She said. The Aultra right and the anti abortion movement 556 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 6: are negotiating with women's rights Commencentio Lohiko. 557 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 2: Now, dear listener, I told you that we would come 558 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 2: back to Huyar Hina and her anti abortion organization in 559 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,720 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, when the campaign of Las Yeesisiete was launched, 560 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 2: Juli Has organization Sia Labida joined forces with a US 561 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 2: based and goo. That NGO is called the Alliance Defending Freedom, 562 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 2: and it was a big player in the fall of 563 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:14,840 Speaker 2: Roe v. 564 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 3: Wade. In the United States, the. 565 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: Christian Conservative movement's most influential arm is the Alliance Defending Freedom. 566 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 6: Was pleased with the court's decision. 567 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 3: Alliance for Defending Freedom is taking this as a win. 568 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 2: Together, the two organizations, one from the United States one 569 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 2: from El Salvador called for new lawyers to join the 570 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 2: anti abortion cause in El Salvador in order to make 571 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 2: sure that the restrictions and the punishments against women stayed 572 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 2: in place. But there is a further connection between the 573 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 2: United States and El Salvador on this issue because until 574 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 2: very recently, the US was actually sending funds to Casa 575 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 2: Dee muheres Lebtes in order to help help women find work, 576 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 2: but earlier this year, the Trump administration slashed that funding 577 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,320 Speaker 2: as part of the administration's major cuts to foreign a. 578 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 6: Zuleimam, the cook who does it all at muheres Liires, 579 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 6: says the cuts made a dent in the organization. Wait 580 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 6: even with less funding. Feminist movements in Ensa vlor have 581 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,919 Speaker 6: made positive changes. When the Salvadoran Feminist Collective first began 582 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 6: its legal battles trying to free women like they al 583 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 6: from prison, feminists relied heavily on international organizations, but today 584 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,800 Speaker 6: the group has academic, legal and medical allies not just abroad, 585 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 6: but in its own country. And as we sing with THELL, 586 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 6: victims of the total abortion ban are getting out of 587 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 6: prison and they're creating organizations like Muhetesludis to provide safe 588 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 6: places for women just like them. 589 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 2: It is our last full night in El Salvador, and well, yes, 590 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 2: both Monica and I are feeling quite emotional, and we 591 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 2: feel like we needed to find a little bit more 592 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 2: hope in this beautiful country. So we decided to invite 593 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 2: THEO and Suleima and her daughter but not the pet Rabbit, 594 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 2: to join us for mariscos in La Costa, fresh seafood 595 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,320 Speaker 2: with a sunset on the coast. 596 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 6: We drive half an hour from the capitol and step 597 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 6: into the warm Pacific Ocean. THEO reminds me that it's 598 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 6: the same ocean, the same country where my roots are, 599 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 6: and for a moment, I feel gratitude. It's about six 600 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 6: pm and the sun is about to set. 601 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 2: Wow, get your relice, Simoo. 602 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:18,720 Speaker 8: Wow. 603 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 2: Tale is really emotional. It was more than just the 604 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,280 Speaker 2: beauty of this sunset. 605 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 6: The last time she experienced the sunsetting on the ocean 606 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 6: was in nineteen ninety seven. It's almost thirty years. The 607 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 6: sunset is beautiful. It's the kind of sunset that reminds 608 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 6: you of how small you are in this world. 609 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 4: Colors in clear Haperefectos de Lo. 610 00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 6: Mass It's orange, yellow, bread and purple. Sitting above the 611 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 6: beach horizon. It looked like it could be infinite. 612 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 5: There's said. 613 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 3: This is what life is all about. They all says 614 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:23,799 Speaker 3: that's just the. 615 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 2: Emotion just looking at the ocean. 616 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 3: Bus piece a lot of peace. 617 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 2: Because they all says after a sunset, there is always 618 00:47:43,520 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 2: a sunrise. This episode was reported by Monica Morales Garcia 619 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 2: and myself. 620 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,280 Speaker 3: It was produced by Monica. 621 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 2: It was edited by Andrea Lopez Gruzzado and our managing 622 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 2: editor Fernanda Echavari. It was mixed by Gabriel Abias. Fact 623 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 2: checking for this episode by Roxana Aguire. Special thanks to 624 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 2: Volcanic Studios and our fixer in San Salvador journalist Ivan Manzano. 625 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 2: This episode is part of Futuro Investigates. The Latino USA 626 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 2: team also includes Julia Caruso, Jessica Elis, Victoria Strada, Renaldo 627 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 2: LEANOZ Junior, Stephanie Lebau, Luis Luna Gloni mad Marquez, Julieta Marinelli, 628 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 2: JJ Carubin, Adriana Rodriguez and Nancy Trujillo. Benileei Ramirez and 629 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 2: I are co executive producers and I'm your host Marino Josa. 630 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 2: Latino USA is part of Iheart's micu Dura podcast network. 631 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 2: Executive producers at iHeart are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. 632 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 2: Dear listener, join us again on our next episode. In 633 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,360 Speaker 2: the meantime, We'll see you on social media. Luchas gracias, 634 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 2: estella proxima in Ayes. 635 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,800 Speaker 6: Funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture of 636 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 6: health is made possible in part by a grant from 637 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 6: the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Latino USA is made possible 638 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,239 Speaker 6: in part by the Levi Strauss Foundation, Outfitting Movements and 639 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 6: leaders fighting for a more just and abundant world, and 640 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 6: Skyline Foundation