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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

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Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Deer Therapists.

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Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a real session where

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Speaker 1: we help people confront the problems in their lives and

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Speaker 1: then give them actionable advice and have them report back

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Speaker 1: to let us know what happened when they did what

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Speaker 1: we suggested.

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Speaker 2: So sit back and welcome to today's session.

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Speaker 1: This week, a man who met his current partner because

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Speaker 1: they shared the same ex wonders if their past will

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Speaker 1: doom the relationship.

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Speaker 3: Seems almost too good to be true, Like am I

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Speaker 3: missing a key thing? Or is there something wrong with

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Speaker 3: me and something wrong with my current partner that attracted

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Speaker 3: us both to the X? Or is there something that

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Speaker 3: he saw in both of us that's gonna like drop

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Speaker 3: at some point.

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Speaker 2: First a quick note, Therapists is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 2: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is

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Speaker 2: not a substitute for professional health care. Advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 2: By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia

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Speaker 2: use it in part or in full, and we may

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Speaker 2: edit it for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear,

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Speaker 2: all names have been changed for the privacy of our guests.

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Speaker 1: Hi Guy, Hi Laurie. So what are we going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about today?

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Speaker 2: Today? We have a letter from a man who is

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Speaker 2: in a new relationship which is a little bit in

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Speaker 2: the shadow of an old relationship, and it goes like this, deotherapists.

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Speaker 2: For the past six months, I have been dating a

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Speaker 2: man who is a good listener, kind and caring. However,

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Speaker 2: we have a shared history with an ex partner, with

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Speaker 2: that relationship for both of us being traumatic in different ways,

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Speaker 2: though more so for me than him. Both of us

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Speaker 2: have no contact with this ex partner or interest in

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Speaker 2: having that. I feel supported in the relationship, but find

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Speaker 2: it difficult to set boundaries when it comes to us

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Speaker 2: both talking about this X. While I think the shared

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Speaker 2: history initially allowed us to connect in a deeper way,

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Speaker 2: I have a persistent worry that it's causing me to

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Speaker 2: overlook things about potential pitfalls in this relationship. How do

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Speaker 2: I move forward and stop my negative feelings from the

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Speaker 2: previous relationship from costing a shadow over my current one.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for your help, Andrew.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is a really interesting situation because often xes

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Speaker 1: do interfere with a current relationship, but in this case,

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Speaker 1: it's the same X, and they both had a difficult

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Speaker 1: relationship with that X, though one person had a more

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Speaker 1: difficult relationship with that X, and I can see how

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Speaker 1: that could be really bonding in the beginning when they

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Speaker 1: first met. But then the question is how much of

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Speaker 1: that is still living inside of their relationship so that

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Speaker 1: they can have a fresh new relationship without the shadow

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Speaker 1: of this.

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Speaker 2: X, right, that is the question. I'm very curious about

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Speaker 2: how they talk about this. Is it something that each

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Speaker 2: of them brings up that one of them tends to

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Speaker 2: bring up more. Is it actually present in their relationship

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Speaker 2: in the day to day in some way, or is

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Speaker 2: it just something they feel compelled to talk about because

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Speaker 2: that's how their relationship began. So I think we have

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Speaker 2: a lot of questions. Let's go talk to Andrew.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back after a short break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench and this is Dear Therapists.

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Speaker 1: Hi Andrew, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Of course you're very welcome. We read your letter. We

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Speaker 2: would like to start actually with the previous relationship, just

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Speaker 2: for context, So with the ex if you could tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit about how you met that person,

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Speaker 2: what relationship was like, what the issues were that came up.

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Speaker 3: So we met during peak COVID. It was about a

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Speaker 3: two year relationship and we just met on a dating app.

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Speaker 3: It was quite supercharged. We went for lots of walks

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Speaker 3: initially because we were trying to socially distance and it

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Speaker 3: was very positive early, lots of kind words, lots of

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Speaker 3: fun activities, lots of sort of things that made me

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Speaker 3: feel great. But quite early into the relationship, I would

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Speaker 3: say about two months, trust issues started to develop. So

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Speaker 3: it deteriorated from a perspective of I felt very much

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Speaker 3: like I was the one to blame for a lot

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Speaker 3: of things. I felt like I wasn't meeting his standards

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Speaker 3: and sort of tried to make up for that.

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Speaker 2: When you said trust issues started to develop, what exactly

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Speaker 2: happened there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so he accused me of withholding information and didn't

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Speaker 3: trust friends I would go out with, and wasn't sort

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Speaker 3: of of trusting that those relationships weren't of a sexual

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Speaker 3: and or sort of romantic nature. So he would start

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Speaker 3: to sort of question me. At one time, he even

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Speaker 3: did go through my messages often would feel like I

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Speaker 3: wasn't being truly forthcoming and would sort of test me

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Speaker 3: to see if things were what I said they were

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Speaker 3: and fair enough. One time he did sort of catch

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Speaker 3: me out when I was withholding information because the way

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Speaker 3: the dynamic worked is it would escalate and he would

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Speaker 3: sort of probe me for things, and I sort of

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Speaker 3: just started giving like the easier answer because I was

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Speaker 3: busy or I didn't want to have that chat.

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Speaker 1: Right then, can you tell us what happened that one

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Speaker 1: time when you were withholding information from him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So one time we were at sort of a

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Speaker 3: study session and I'd come over to help him study,

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Speaker 3: and we had planned to do it for the whole day,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't going particularly well, and I was sort

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Speaker 3: of messages from our friend and so instead of saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: I've been messaging this person for a little while, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to go catch up with them. I said, Oh, hey,

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Speaker 3: this person just messaged me. I'm going to just go

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Speaker 3: see them and leave this study session now. And so

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Speaker 3: I think I misrepresented how spontaneous it was versus having

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Speaker 3: planned to go meet up with that person directly after.

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Speaker 3: So instead of being honest about that, I sort of

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Speaker 3: came up with a simple excuse that wasn't exactly true

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Speaker 3: because I represented it as a spontaneous thing rather than

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Speaker 3: a completely planned thing.

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Speaker 2: Might not be honest about that, I.

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Speaker 3: Think because at the time I was trying to placate

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Speaker 3: the situation, I felt there was a lot of friction,

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Speaker 3: and so I didn't want to rock the boat necessarily

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Speaker 3: and be honest, which was you're being quite aggressive in

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Speaker 3: this study session and you're kind of telling me that

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Speaker 3: I'm not doing the right things to help you, and

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Speaker 3: we're also not studying effectively. I think we would probably

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Speaker 3: study more effectively alone. So instead of saying all that,

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Speaker 3: I just was like, Oh, my friend just messaged me.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: So that was sort of the initial in the relationship.

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Speaker 3: The trust did break down a little bit, but we

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Speaker 3: repaired it.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask how did you repair it?

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Speaker 3: So Initially he sort of said that I had communication issues.

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Speaker 3: So I went to see a therapist myself and I

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Speaker 3: did some courses on communication, and then we went and

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Speaker 3: saw a couple's counselor together, and because it was COVID,

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Speaker 3: we were getting on quite well. So then sort of

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Speaker 3: six months into the relationship, we moved in and that

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Speaker 3: actually went okay because we became supports for each other.

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Speaker 1: At the time that you moved in, had the trust

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Speaker 1: issues been resolved as far as you could tell.

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Speaker 3: No, I kind of just overlooked them. I sort of

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Speaker 3: had always been a little bit on the back foot.

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Speaker 3: I've been doing things to try and prove myself to

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Speaker 3: this person, often through things that he either requested or acts.

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Speaker 1: Token acts like what kinds of things.

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Speaker 3: So I'd drop work and go help with one of

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Speaker 3: his clients, for instance, if they needed things, or I

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Speaker 3: would buy him a gift, or I'd have a romantic gesture.

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Speaker 3: I've always been afraid of heights, but he's always liked it.

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Speaker 3: So I organized to go skydiving because I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you don't trust me, so he is a show of that.

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Speaker 3: I'm willing to try anything with you.

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Speaker 1: What made you feel like you had so much to

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Speaker 1: prove to this person. Is that something that felt familiar

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Speaker 1: to you in other relationships as well?

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Speaker 3: I think going into the relationship, I did lack self confidence,

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Speaker 3: and I think I always saw him as this sort

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Speaker 3: of idyllic person. So I was trying to really prove

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Speaker 3: myself internally, and so I think that didn't help coming

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Speaker 3: into it. But also because he had sort of called

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Speaker 3: me a liar and said I was a back communicator

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Speaker 3: and said I wasn't bringing the right things to the table,

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Speaker 3: part of me wanted to sort of prove him wrong

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Speaker 3: and also be that person for him. I loved him.

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Speaker 1: How does going skydiving when you're afraid of heights prove

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Speaker 1: to him that you're a trustworthy person.

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Speaker 3: I think for me it was sort of the idea

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Speaker 3: that part of my communication issues were connected to my

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Speaker 3: anxiety and were connected to the things that I was

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Speaker 3: holding back out of fear of conflict. And so I

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Speaker 3: think part of me choosing to do something like that was, oh, look,

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Speaker 3: I can overcome my fears. I can be connected to you.

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Speaker 3: I can do this with you. I can watch you

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Speaker 3: fall out of a plane and follow you down kind

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Speaker 3: of thing that was the romantic gesture to it, but

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Speaker 3: it was a bit extreme and silly.

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Speaker 2: Well, No, there were grand gestures, and it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: jumping out of an aeroplane to be with someone. It

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Speaker 2: was he says, you have communication issues, you actually take

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Speaker 2: communication courses, you go to therapy. That's a big respect.

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Speaker 2: So it's a big gesture for someone. Was he making

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Speaker 2: big gestures as well?

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Speaker 3: Initially I would say yes, But I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of the things that I thought were romantic gestures were

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Speaker 3: probably just things he wanted to do anyway. For instance,

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Speaker 3: like sometimes I'd come home and all the candles would

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Speaker 3: be lit and we wouldn't sort of watch anything, and

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Speaker 3: dinner would be cooked and we'd just relax and like,

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Speaker 3: to me, that was really romantic. But as the relationship built,

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Speaker 3: I realized those are things that he liked to do

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Speaker 3: and he enjoyed sharing those with me. But I don't

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Speaker 3: think they necessarily were for me.

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Speaker 2: So there want incidences of him going out of his

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Speaker 2: way to make a gesture to you, like guy dibing,

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Speaker 2: taking courses, going to therapy.

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Speaker 1: And specifically gestures around why he had so many questions

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Speaker 1: around trust.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he came into the relationship being pretty

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Speaker 3: open about previous access and about trust issues that he had,

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Speaker 3: and so when he sort of found that first incidents

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Speaker 3: of me sort of not being completely fully open, he

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Speaker 3: saw that as me not respecting his boundaries and stepping

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Speaker 3: over that core wearing that he had, or that's how

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Speaker 3: sort of he described it. So I think he was

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Speaker 3: pretty honest that I need full trust and I need

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Speaker 3: complete transparency in this relationship and saw that I wasn't

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Speaker 3: bringing that to the table, and so felt he was

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Speaker 3: holding me to account to that, but didn't feel like

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Speaker 3: he needed to change necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Did he understand the impact of how much he needed

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Speaker 1: to question you was having on you that it felt

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Speaker 1: intrusive to you.

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Speaker 3: I think he did, But he felt that he had

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Speaker 3: to hold firm to his value system to respect who

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Speaker 3: he was.

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Speaker 2: He was quite good at articulating his needs to you,

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Speaker 2: and it sounds like you weren't quite great at articulating

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Speaker 2: yours to him.

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Speaker 3: Correct there was definitely a power dynamic to the relationship

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Speaker 3: where I had to learn to articulate my needs, and

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Speaker 3: then when I did articulate those needs, I think because

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Speaker 3: I felt like the inferior one in the relationship, I

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Speaker 3: often would back down or just put them to the

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Speaker 3: side in fear of a potential conflict.

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Speaker 1: What made you feel like the inferior one in the relationship.

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Speaker 3: I have sort of longstanding things that lead to that.

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Speaker 3: I'm a middle child, and I'm a little bit different

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Speaker 3: to the rest of my family, and he sort of

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Speaker 3: was stereotypically beautiful, and he was sort of wrapped up

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Speaker 3: in a social setting that I was very much separate to.

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Speaker 3: So I think a lot of those things sort of

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Speaker 3: made me feel like I didn't bring as much to

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Speaker 3: the table. But I was also busy at the time.

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Speaker 3: I was wrapped up in work and felt like I

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Speaker 3: was constantly being run off my feet, and so I

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Speaker 3: didn't feel like I could bring as much in terms

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Speaker 3: of time commitment, and I think that also led to

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Speaker 3: that feeling too.

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Speaker 2: So tell us how things are build were the X.

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Speaker 3: So it ended up going far too quickly. We lived

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Speaker 3: together for six to seven months, and I wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: they were harmonious, but I think because I sort of

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Speaker 3: suppressed a lot of things that I was having issues

250
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Speaker 3: with and he was clear with what he had issues with.

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Speaker 3: I was getting more and more tired and so wanted

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Speaker 3: to change things, and as a lot of people did

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Speaker 3: during COVID, decided, oh yeah, let's move into state. I'll

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Speaker 3: go regionally, and we talked about our long standing goals,

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Speaker 3: and at about a year and a half we decided

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Speaker 3: to buy a house together, which was a big and

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Speaker 3: pretty ridiculous step. And so when we moved up to

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Speaker 3: start to live in the house together, that's when things

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Speaker 3: really broke down in what way, we had a really

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Speaker 3: big fight. We were traveling up in a caravan to

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Speaker 3: our new property in separate cars, and my ex sort

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Speaker 3: of found an animal that was injured and so asked

263
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Speaker 3: me to loop back and grab some supplies for it.

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Speaker 3: But then after that episode, he was acting sort of

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Speaker 3: more erratic and was sort of not allowing me to

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Speaker 3: support him at all. Really, he sort of disconnected from

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Speaker 3: me and didn't want to chat and didn't want to

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Speaker 3: talk and just wanted to look after this animal. And

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Speaker 3: so it led to a fight just as we were

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Speaker 3: moving up to this property and we had sort of

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Speaker 3: chickens in one car and we had all of my

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Speaker 3: things in another car, and so he was struggling to

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Speaker 3: sort of drive with one of the car is attached

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Speaker 3: to the caravan. With all the things, so I said

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Speaker 3: we'd swap, but my car had had all my things

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Speaker 3: that I needed in it, and so what ended up

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Speaker 3: happening was he ended up driving off and leaving me,

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Speaker 3: but because all my things were in the other car,

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Speaker 3: I ended up running out of charge and not having

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Speaker 3: a phone or a computer or anything. So it ended

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Speaker 3: up being quite significant. And then when I sort of

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Speaker 3: tried to highlight that as an issue to him, it

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Speaker 3: ended up culminating in us breaking up. As we were

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Speaker 3: about to start our new lives, we broke up, which

285
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Speaker 3: wasn't anticipated or expected.

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Speaker 1: How did it go from you talking about this disagreement

287
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Speaker 1: that you had to breaking up? How does it escalate

288
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: like that?

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00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it escalated quite quickly, I think from his perspective

290
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Speaker 3: at the time, his words were, I don't want to

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Speaker 3: baby you. And so I think potentially the dynamic in

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00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 3: the relationship had set up so that because I was

293
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 3: just meeting his needs a lot, he felt like he

294
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 3: was the sort of more parental figure and I was

295
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 3: sort of the most submissive one where I would sort

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Speaker 3: of go along with what he wanted.

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Speaker 2: But Andrew, usually the parent is the one that meets

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Speaker 2: the needs of the child, not vice versa. That sets

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Speaker 2: you up to be the parent, not him.

300
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Speaker 3: Again, it's tricky because I am speaking for him.

301
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Speaker 2: But why then, why Andrew? When we ask you what happened,

302
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 2: you always start well, I don't want to speak for him,

303
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 2: but he's his perspective before you get to yours. How

304
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 2: come you start with him before you get to you?

305
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 2: You've done that several times. Do you notice that? Yeah?

306
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,160
Speaker 3: I do. I am putting myself second. I guess that's true.

307
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 1: So tell us about you. How does it go from

308
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: we had a disagreement about the caravan to we're breaking up?

309
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 1: What was happening for you?

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Speaker 3: For me, it all came to a head because I

311
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 3: felt very much alone. I anticipated with the move that

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00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 3: it would be something we would do together, But even

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Speaker 3: in the lead up to the move, I was selling

314
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Speaker 3: things sort of online to try and make space to

315
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 3: move things in this caravan. I was doing a lot

316
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Speaker 3: of things, and I felt in that moment that it

317
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: wasn't a team effort, and it wasn't necessarily us moving

318
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Speaker 3: up to our house. It was me facilitating us moving

319
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Speaker 3: up to his house, is how I felt it was.

320
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Speaker 3: And so I think being on a rural property by

321
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 3: myself without service, having only just gotten there because I

322
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 3: almost ran out of petrol because I couldn't pay for

323
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 3: it with chickens and having to unload all of my

324
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 3: worldly possessions by myself. It kind of hit me that, like, ah,

325
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Speaker 3: I think I am pretty alone and that was what

326
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Speaker 3: for me triggered a lot of the breakup feelings.

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Speaker 1: But instead of talking to him about how alone and

328
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 1: abandoned you felt, you told him you wanted to break up.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, he broke up with me. I told him

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Speaker 3: those things, and then that led to the breakup.

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Speaker 1: So when you told him how you felt and what

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00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: you needed, he broke up with you?

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00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 2: Yes? Correct?

334
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: And that was how long ago?

335
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 3: A year? In three quarters ago? Yep?

336
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 1: And then when did you meet your current boyfriend?

337
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 3: So I met him seven months ago?

338
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: How long ago did he date? The mutual ax?

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Speaker 3: So that's interesting because he started dating my ex two

340
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 3: months after I had broken up with him, so pretty quick,

341
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 3: and I was sort of surprised to buy that initially

342
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 3: when we started talking.

343
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Speaker 2: And how long were they together?

344
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 3: They were together for a month and a couple.

345
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 2: Weeks Okay, so much more casual relationship.

346
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 3: Correct. But similarly, it went quite rapidly. They became exclusive

347
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 3: quite quickly, and then he actually ended up living my

348
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 3: old property for a while.

349
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Speaker 1: The trust issues that your ex had with you, did

350
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 1: your ex also have with the person who became your

351
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: current boyfriend.

352
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 3: Yes, similar trust issues followed a very similar script.

353
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Speaker 1: And in that relationship, who broke up with whom?

354
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 3: Again? My ex boyfriend broke up with my current one, Andrew.

355
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Speaker 2: When you left that relationship with your ex, did you

356
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 2: have takeaways? Did you have lessons learned that you told yourself, like, Okay,

357
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 2: here are some things I might not want to do again,

358
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 2: or some things I might need to do differently. Were

359
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 2: you doing some thinking about the relationship and what you

360
00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,360
Speaker 2: can learn from it?

361
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 3: One hundred percent? And I moved away, and I found

362
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 3: a new job, and I had some therapy, and I

363
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 3: sort of said I wasn't going to get into a

364
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 3: relationship for a long time because I was really still

365
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 3: in love with my ex. I think for probably six months.

366
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,920
Speaker 3: The wounds took about six months to heal properly.

367
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: What then were the takeaways? Tell us what those lessons were.

368
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 3: I think to sort of stick up for myself and

369
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 3: be more firm in what I needed in a relationship

370
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 3: and what I was looking for, but also to put

371
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,639
Speaker 3: myself first. I think you can't show up for another

372
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 3: person unless you are looking after your sort of core needs.

373
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Speaker 3: And I think that concept of getting run down in

374
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 3: a relationship is really something that I'm not looking to

375
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 3: do again. I saw that in trying to meet all

376
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 3: the things on someone's list, that I was sort of

377
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 3: devaluing the things that I am as a person. I

378
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 3: wasn't who I really needed to be. And so I

379
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 3: think understanding that I do sort of lie more on

380
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 3: the anxious spectrum, and that I do need to work

381
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 3: harder and making sure that I'm looked after, but also

382
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,640
Speaker 3: just that I need to be a bit more picky,

383
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 3: I kind of at that time ended up cutting out

384
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 3: a couple of people because I felt that they weren't

385
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 3: people who actually listened to me and actually heard me

386
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 3: and actually respected or valued my time. And so that

387
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 3: breakup wasn't just a breakup with my ex. It was

388
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 3: also a little bit of a breakup with a couple

389
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 3: of people in my life.

390
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,360
Speaker 1: So how long after your current boyfriend broke up with

391
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: your ex boyfriend did the two of you start dating.

392
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 3: The way it initially happened, actually was because it was

393
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,239
Speaker 3: quite tumultuous for my current boyfriend. He'd heard a lot

394
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: of things about me from my ex and so reached

395
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 3: out to clarify some of those things. And it wasn't romantic,

396
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 3: cleanclinder or he was just reaching out because he said, Hey,

397
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 3: I heard some things about you and I've had a

398
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 3: similar experience. Do you want to meet up for coffee

399
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 3: and chat about it. I just didn't respond and was

400
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 3: very guarded, and I think that's when he initially messaged,

401
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 3: which was too soon after we'd broken up. It was

402
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 3: maybe six months after, and so I said no and

403
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 3: waited a couple of months. And then I remember thinking

404
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 3: if I was sort of going through that for a

405
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 3: six months period and had someone who could share how

406
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 3: they were feeling and share in that pain almost and

407
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 3: highlight that it's not that crazy feeling. I felt that

408
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 3: it's all my fault, and to be able to say, oh,

409
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 3: oh hey, this is a pattern and it's not your

410
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 3: fault and you can move on. Why wouldn't I do

411
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 3: that for someone? So I did catch up for coffee

412
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,959
Speaker 3: and we shared our stories about this person, and they

413
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 3: ended up being relatively similar even though his was a

414
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 3: lot shorter than mine, So that was sort of the

415
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 3: context for us meeting.

416
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: How did it evolve from that to getting interested in

417
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 2: one another.

418
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 3: I think it evolved quite quickly, which wasn't something I planned.

419
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 3: And I think there was a lot of immediate trust,

420
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: purely because we'd been open very quickly about things that

421
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: were really painful for both of us. And I come

422
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 3: from a position of a bit further down the track,

423
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 3: so I'd been broken up for longer. I had sort

424
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 3: of less emotion to it, but I'd been in a

425
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: longer relationship, and so I have more things to share.

426
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 3: And I guess partially a lot of my worry was

427
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 3: I'd set up clear boundaries that I wasn't going to

428
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 3: be in a relationship and I wasn't going to have

429
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: a messy relationship again, so I was a bit cautious.

430
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 3: But we chatted for hours and then met up shortly

431
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: thereafter and chatted for hours again, and then talking about

432
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 3: our X turned into talking about each other in each

433
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 3: other's lives, and we ended up going on hikes together,

434
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 3: which we both really enjoyed. And I think the similarities

435
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: that potentially my AX chose us for were also things

436
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,959
Speaker 3: that made us very compatible together as dating options. And

437
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 3: so I think that trust that we had sharing and

438
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 3: being vulnerable with each other out of the gate, and

439
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 3: then that leading on to things that we shared about

440
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: each other that were vulnerable in other spheres, led to

441
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: a pretty open communication upfront, which I think is rare.

442
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: So in terms of the lessons learned, what is different

443
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: in this current relationship that you're bringing into it and

444
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: that you're finding that's much more satisfying to you.

445
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 3: The generosity and spirit of my current boyfriend, I'm willing

446
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 3: to admit when he's wrong. He has a lot more flexibility,

447
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 3: can also overcome adversity, but has at the same time

448
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: a level of stability in his life and things that

449
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 3: he doesn't want to change.

450
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: Andrew, you're talking about him again, we're asking about you.

451
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: I think for me, I needed someone who is stable

452
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: and who could support me. I've been moving around a

453
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: relative amount, and so initially my boundary was I don't

454
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: want it to go too fast. I needed something that

455
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 3: was consistent and stable, but also something that went at

456
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 3: a gradual pace and wasn't necessarily that supercharged all or

457
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 3: nothing experience that I had in the previous relationship. I

458
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 3: also needed to feel like I was being listened to

459
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 3: and needed to feel like my partner fed back when

460
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 3: they weren't happy with things in a way that was respectful.

461
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 3: Those were my main things that I really had strong

462
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: boundaries around.

463
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: Would you articulated to the current boyfriend and expressed clearly.

464
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually we're doing a long distance at the moment,

465
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: But I set up front, I don't want to be

466
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: moving in anytime soon. I don't really want to have

467
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 3: shared resources at any point in the near future. And

468
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 3: those the things that he provides that I needed to

469
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 3: feel more secure in the relationship.

470
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: Let me ask you spent hours talking about the X.

471
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: There's absolutely something about being vulnerable with people that brings

472
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: people closer. I'm curious about how soon after that the

473
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: ex was seeded into the background in this relationship, or

474
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 2: how present they were or are still in the conversation

475
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: between the.

476
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: Two of you, not super present in the day to

477
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 3: day conversation. Annoyingly, there's practicalities. We did buy a house together,

478
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: and so that's still undergoing mediation, and so every now

479
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 3: and then that pops up. But there are tiny little things,

480
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: For instance, when we go to the shops and we're

481
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 3: going to buy things, and you'll be like, oh, do

482
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: you like these grapes? And I'll be like, I don't

483
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 3: really eat those anymore because they were my ex's favorite.

484
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: And then we'll talk about it briefly and then it'll

485
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: be gone. But that still does occasionally pop up. I

486
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 3: would say, maybe like once every two weeks or so.

487
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 3: They'll be something that maybe one of us is triggered by,

488
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 3: or one of us picks up that is an annoyance

489
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 3: because it's related to that shared AX.

490
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: It comes up for both of you. He also mentions

491
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: the X.

492
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: It comes up more for me, I would say, than him.

493
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: I am sort of more the one to say, oh,

494
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: that's something he would have liked. And I don't know

495
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: if that's because I spent longer with the AX, or

496
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: whether it's because I've got more of a hang up

497
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: about it. Maybe both.

498
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: You said in your letter that you have trouble setting

499
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: boundaries with your current boyfriend because of the X. We

500
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: haven't quite heard that. Tell us where that's operating, and

501
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 2: give us an example of that difficulty.

502
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 3: For me, my boundaries around the speed of which things

503
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: are moving about prioritizing my career about prioritizing my friendships.

504
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: That mean a lot to me, means that sometimes he's

505
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: asking for things and I'm saying no. My worry around

506
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 3: that is if I'm the one saying no for a

507
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: really long time, that resem when we'll build up. And

508
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 3: at the moment he's been very frank that that's not

509
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 3: the case. But every now and then at flaares that like,

510
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: I'm not meeting this person's needs or expectations, and I'm

511
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 3: not being the best partner I could be to this man.

512
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 3: The way in which we met, I just was the

513
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: messier one insofar as I had more of these attachments

514
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 3: to this person that neither of us wanted to be

515
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: attached to. And so I think feeling as the messier

516
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 3: one and then having the more firm boundaries because of that,

517
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm the bad cop. More often do you.

518
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: Talk about that in the relationship? Do you ask him

519
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: how he feels about the fact that you're more boundaried

520
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: and taking it slower than maybe he wants.

521
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I often say like, oh, I'm sorry, I know.

522
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Oh see, but that's you apologizing. What I'm asking is,

523
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: do you say to him, I'm feeling worried about the

524
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: fact that I'm setting these boundaries and that it might

525
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: affect our relationship, as opposed to apologizing preemptively. Do you

526
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: ever say this is just how I'm feeling and how

527
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: are you feeling about it?

528
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

529
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: I have verbalized sort of saying I think he sort

530
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: of has been pretty clear that one day he wants

531
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: to move to the same spot and live together, and

532
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: I've very clearly stated that's not going to be a while,

533
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: just based on my work, And so I worry that

534
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 3: I'm holding you back.

535
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: I think that you're not really stating you're worry It

536
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: sounds like you're worry is I'm worried that you will

537
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: want to leave me? Yeah, Yeah, there's a smile. I'm

538
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: worried that you will want to leave me if I

539
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: don't move at a certain pace. I'm worried that you

540
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: will want to leave me if I continue to say

541
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: no to these things at this time. It's interesting because

542
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: you're fine saying, hey, I don't want to eat these

543
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: grapes because they remind me of the ex, But you're

544
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: not so fine saying I'm really worried that you're going

545
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: to leave me, that you're not going to want to

546
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: be with me.

547
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, lost aversion is something that I've been afraid of

548
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: in all my relationships. I probably stuck around too long

549
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: and a lot of them just for fear of losing someone.

550
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 3: So I think the longer into this relationship it goes,

551
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 3: the more I do want to do things to bring

552
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: us closer, but also the more afraid I am that

553
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 3: potentially I could lose someone I'm starting to care deeply

554
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 3: about because I can't meet that need.

555
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: In your letter, you say that you're worried that the

556
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: connection that you initially had around the X and coming

557
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: together to have those conversations is maybe too much a

558
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: part of the relationship, And I would say that that

559
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like the real issue in terms of how

560
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: the EX is too much a part of the relationship.

561
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: I think the EX is too much a part of

562
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: the relationship because you're bringing those abandonment fears from that

563
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: old relationship into this relationship. So I don't think the

564
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: X is so much the issue. I think the feelings

565
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: that you had around the X of being abandoned you're

566
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: projecting onto your current partner, and I think you're with

567
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: a very different kind of partner. By your description, sounds

568
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: like a very different kind of relationship, and you're still

569
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: holding back because you have those feelings that you had

570
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: in the old relationship, even though they're not so relevant

571
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: to this new relationship.

572
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 3: That's true. Anytime I bring anything like this up, my

573
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: partner's pretty quick to support and sort of reassure and

574
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: tell me all the things that hass in me, And

575
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 3: it is a different kind of feeling. I do think

576
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: that I'm bringing those worries and concerns from the previous

577
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: relationships into this one. And I guess that's why I

578
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 3: didn't want to get into a relationship, because I felt

579
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: like I wasn't ready. I think that I probably am

580
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: bringing the old ones into this one, but I don't

581
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: want to necessarily throw this one away because I'm not ready.

582
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: How do I grow in it?

583
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: You know? I think you are, though, because you're saying

584
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: that you're actually implementing a lot of the lessons learned

585
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: from the X in the current relationship. You're actually holding

586
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: onto your boundaries really really well. From what I hear.

587
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: The feelings, though, are still there. And here's why. When

588
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: you adopt a new behavior, there was a reason you

589
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: weren't setting a lot of boundaries in the previous relationship,

590
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: And it wasn't just about your ex It was about

591
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: a fear you were probably bringing into that relationship of

592
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: if I express my needs too much, they will run,

593
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: so let me not do that. And here, despite that fear,

594
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: you're holding onto the timeline that you thought was best

595
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: for this relationship. There's this transitionary period when we adopt

596
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: new behaviors and overcome the old fears, where the old

597
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: fears really manifest and it's like, oh, you're doing something dangerous.

598
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: You're doing something risky, but you know in your head

599
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: you're doing something right Psychologically, when we adopt a new behavior,

600
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: it takes our feelings a while to catch up and

601
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: feel comfortable about doing that new behavior. We kind of

602
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: have to see that the sky doesn't fall for a

603
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: while before we can start to feel a little bit

604
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: calmer about it. Does that make sense, Yeah, it does.

605
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: You guys are like hitting on me feeling this torn

606
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: feeling that I've been feeling, and you're articulating it far

607
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 3: better than I could. In my previous relationships. I felt

608
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: like I couldn't express myself and had to push it

609
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: down and now I'm on the other end of the spectrum,

610
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: sort of expressing myself and feeling internal guilt for that.

611
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: And I think you feel that guilt because it's so

612
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: strongly associated with how you felt in that previous relationship.

613
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: But I think that that's something you came into that

614
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: relationship with, You've had that for a long time. It's

615
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: just this is maybe the first relationship that you've had

616
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: where you're not experiencing someone who's invalidating what you need.

617
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is interesting because my current boyfriend is the

618
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: one who very clearly says I would feel like that too. Actually,

619
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: I did feel like that. He's been very accommodating, which

620
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: I think is not something that I was used to previously,

621
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: but also feels really foreign and almost unsettling in a

622
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: way because a part of me, and I know this

623
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 3: isn't right, but a part of me feels why does

624
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 3: he like me this much?

625
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: Well?

626
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: Is he willing to stick around with the mess of me?

627
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: In your last relationship? You said that your boyfriend had

628
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: trust issues, and I think these are your trust issues.

629
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: You're not so much around. Let me check your phone,

630
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: you're around. I don't understand why you are staying with

631
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: me even though I'm showing you the truth of who

632
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: I am. Every time I show you who I am,

633
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: you stay with me. What's wrong with you? Or do

634
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: you not really see me? And are you really seeing

635
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: this thing here? Because I don't know why you're still

636
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: staying if you're really seeing me. So these are your

637
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: trust issues.

638
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I feel a lot harder because

639
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: of this life mess that I have with this X,

640
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 3: because I still have those attachments and I didn't get

641
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: out sooner and my current boyfriend could see the signs

642
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 3: a lot earlier.

643
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 2: You know, you've used the word messy numerous times today.

644
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: You're the mess. The relationship was a mess. You're messy.

645
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: How come this new tidy boyfriend who got out after

646
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: a month and a half rather than however many months

647
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: in the house has to tolerate your messiness by still

648
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: being in mediation. To me, at least, you don't sound

649
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: very messy. I'm trying to make the point with you

650
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: that you actually are doing the right things. You just

651
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: have to manage the emotional discomfort of the novelty of

652
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,959
Speaker 2: that for you and the anxiety. It has always said

653
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 2: that fear of abandonment that was baked in that if

654
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: you actually do express yourself and show who you are,

655
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: that somebody will be like, oh no, no, no, that's not

656
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: good because that was the experience with the EX is

657
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: more than one.

658
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: So tell us the main concern in your letter was

659
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: how the X is showing up in this relationship. Tell

660
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: us where you think that's happening. Besides oh, the grapes

661
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to eat because he used to eat them.

662
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: I think it's in three different spheres. I think there's

663
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 3: the physical means, so sort of me being financially tied

664
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: to it. Still. There's the practical means, where like we

665
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 3: see things and have shared experiences and have shared places

666
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: that I kind of don't really want to go because

667
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 3: they remind me of the EX or because that's where

668
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 3: the X lives. And then there's also the emotional stuff,

669
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 3: which is every now and then I sort of get

670
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: triggered sort of where I'm like, oh, that reminded me

671
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 3: of that thing that happened and makes me feel really unsettled.

672
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: And I think expressing that every sort of now and

673
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 3: then I worry that, given our shared history, that that's

674
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: going to keep happening.

675
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: I think the other worry you expressed was that maybe

676
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: because you felt such a strong connection around your shared

677
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: experience with the ex, that you start to question your

678
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: compatibility with your current partner. Even though everything you've said

679
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: today has made it seem like separate from the ex,

680
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: the two of you seem very very compatible. So what

681
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: do you worry about in terms of your compatibility or

682
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: this fear of your not seeing the red flags? As

683
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: you said in your letter.

684
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: A part of me is really worried because the trust

685
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: being so easy and mutual in the way that we met,

686
00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: I worry that it seems almost too good to be true,

687
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: Like am I missing a key thing? Or is there

688
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: something wrong with me and something wrong with my current

689
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: partner that attracted us both to the ex? Or is

690
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 3: there something that he saw in both of us that's

691
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 3: gonna like drop at some point that we actually were

692
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 3: overlooking because we've been so wrapped up in this sort

693
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 3: of ease.

694
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: This is exactly what Laurie was saying earlier. It's not

695
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: a fear about your ex. It's a fear about I'm

696
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: bringing my full self to this relationship. I Am not

697
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: hiding my needs, my wants, my feelings, and it's really

698
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 2: scary that me doing that truly for the first time

699
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: will result in I'll get rejected at some point. And

700
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: it's exactly what you said. It's like, this feels too

701
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: good to be true. What am I missing? And so

702
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: far Laurie and I are telling you that you seem

703
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 2: to be really covering all the bases. It seems things

704
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: like the communication is where it should be, that your

705
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: planning is going at a rate that you felt was

706
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: important to be slow enough, which is what it is,

707
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 2: that you have aligned goals for the future, and that

708
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: when someone's really listening to you and seeing you and

709
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: responding well, it's scary because of a history of that

710
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: not being the case. It really does sound like, oh,

711
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: this appeels too good to be true, so something must

712
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: be wrong that I'm missing. I need outside council to

713
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 2: come and do the vetting because I can't trust that

714
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: that feeling of it seems to be going well is

715
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: actually accurate. What if it were accurate? What if it

716
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 2: actually is going well?

717
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: Do you feel terrified? You look terrified.

718
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 3: I just think it's like too easy. It seems weird

719
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: that something positives come out from something so negative, and

720
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: that it was just a genuine connection that is really

721
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 3: not expected, and like it just seems like the best

722
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 3: thing that's come out of a really terrible situation. And

723
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 3: a lot of people that I've told have said, oh,

724
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 3: you're not supposed to date your ex's ex.

725
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: What rule book is that written in?

726
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: I know you didn't get that one.

727
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: I know.

728
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: I think that you soothe your anxiety by having anxiety.

729
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: Your anxiety is so familiar to you, it's been with

730
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 1: you for so long that when you don't have anxiety,

731
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: you become anxious. If I am anxious, then I can

732
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: be hypervigilant and I can make sure that I'm not

733
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: going to get hurt. But that hasn't actually worked, and

734
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: here you're actually being overly hypervigilant. So it's almost like

735
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: you weren't vigilant enough in the other relationships. Ironically, the

736
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: ones where you needed to look out for those signs,

737
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: you were not paying enough attention to them when they

738
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: did happen, and they happened quite frequently. In the last

739
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: relationship and the inn this relationship, there are no real

740
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: big red flags. Things come up, you guys deal with them.

741
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: If I don't have my anxiety, which is my shield,

742
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: which protects me, which makes sure that I'm not going

743
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: to be devastated and gutted again in the way that

744
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: I had been. But the problem is your anxiety is

745
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: going to make you not move forward in a healthy relationship.

746
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: You will find some reason, and right now that reason

747
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: is it's the shadow of the X. And so this

748
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: relationship is doomed because it started this way. So no

749
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: matter how great it is now, it doesn't really matter

750
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: because everyone says you're not supposed to start a relationship

751
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: that way. That's very convenient, but it doesn't really reflect

752
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: the reality of the relationship you're in.

753
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree.

754
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: One of the issues is that your attribution for why

755
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 2: things are going well is not aimed correctly. You told

756
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: us that you were in one relationship after another in

757
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: which you want bringing yourself, you want speaking up, you

758
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: want expressing your needs sufficiently, and you leave this relationship

759
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: and you go to therapy and you work on yourself,

760
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: and then you're in a relationship and despite the discomfort,

761
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 2: despite the anxiety of doing it, you are doing all

762
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: these very difficult, correct things, and that is why the

763
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: relationship is going well, not because your ex costs a

764
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: spell on you. Both in some kind of way.

765
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about your ex and his trust issues in

766
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: the way that he always needed to be reassured that

767
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: you were not stepping out on him. And I feel

768
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: like you do that to yourself, that you're doing what

769
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: your ex did to you, but to yourself. You're always

770
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: checking on yourself. Am I looking for everything? Am I

771
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: making sure that I'm not missing anything? It sounds exhausting

772
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: the way that it was exhausting to be with your

773
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: ex when he would always say you see your phone

774
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: and what are you doing? And who are you with?

775
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: It was really becoming intolerable. And you're not letting yourself

776
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: just trust in this relationship. I'm talking about trust yourself,

777
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: not your partner. You don't trust yourself enough in this

778
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: relationship to say I don't need to look for disaster ahead.

779
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: I need to be aware. I can't have my head

780
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: in the sand, but I don't need to be wondering

781
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: where the next disaster is coming from.

782
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: Because I'm doing all the right things. That's why I

783
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: don't need to worry.

784
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: We just saw you, Tira, tell us more about that.

785
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 3: I think it just comes from a place of not

786
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 3: feeling good enough, and I just feel good enough, like

787
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 3: I feel like I am a good communicator. I feel

788
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: like I do bring a lot to the table. I

789
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 3: do have a lot of value add in a relationship.

790
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: And you're probably right. The uncomfortable feeling is the pushback

791
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: against that. And potentially the reason I bring my ex

792
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: into that conversation a lot is because he often said

793
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: I wasn't and now I don't need to be that

794
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 3: perfect partner. But I wasn't expecting this from this session.

795
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: And that's what touched you right now. You got in

796
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: touch with that feeling you said it. But what touched

797
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: you when you tear it up is you got in

798
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: touch with the feeling of I think I might be

799
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: good enough. I think I am good enough because I've

800
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: worked so hard. That's what it's touching you again, because

801
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 2: you're tearing up again. Sorry, No, we don't apologize for

802
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: having feelings.

803
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: We call those happy tears. Yes, because you're smiling as

804
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: you're tearing up. You've got a big smile on your face.

805
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: And even if these were sad tears, there's no need

806
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: to apologize for them. And I'll bet that your boyfriend

807
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: doesn't expect an apology when you are feeling whatever you're

808
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: feeling and sharing that with him.

809
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 3: No, he doesn't.

810
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I cry a lot and he's there.

811
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it's good. I don't know getting older. I've

812
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 3: just started crying watching like sad movies. But it's good.

813
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 2: It's not getting older. It's all the work you've done

814
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: to get in touch with how you feel and what

815
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 2: you want and give that room and space that opens

816
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: you up, so you're open. When you watch a sad movie.

817
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: You can cry because that's what sad movies are supposed

818
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: to make you do. You couldn't cry before because you

819
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: were too defended, because you're being attacked all the time.

820
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 3: It's also just nice having someone who doesn't have any expectations,

821
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: Like the expectation is I am me, and he likes that.

822
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 3: Whereas I think the thing that I tapped into is

823
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 3: potentially I've put the most expectations on myself, and yes,

824
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: other people put those on me, but I take them

825
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: on and hold them, and so I think some of

826
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 3: the tears were also just a bit of like the

827
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 3: person who has the least expectations in my life at

828
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: the moment, or my partner, and that's pretty special.

829
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: I want to maybe reframe that for you. I think

830
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: your partner has very high expectations and that's why he

831
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 1: picked you. You make it sound like he had no expectations,

832
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: so whatever, he'll settle for me kind of thing. He

833
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: has very high expectations. He wants someone who is present

834
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: and open and loving and warm and compassionate and knows

835
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: how to set boundaries and knows how to check in

836
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: with him. And that's why he's with you, because he

837
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: has really high expectations. So it's not just, oh, he

838
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: doesn't have any expectations, so that's why he's staying with me.

839
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: He's staying with me because he has high expectations and

840
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: I am good enough. That's a very different way of

841
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: looking at it. I think you both have very high

842
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: expectations and you've chosen people who meet those expectations, and

843
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: neither of you had that before.

844
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: So, Andrew, we have some advice you, and here's part one.

845
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: We want you and your boyfriend, each of you to

846
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: separately make a list, and the list is why things

847
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: are going well, why we can trust in our feeling

848
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: that this is indeed going well. What are the things

849
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: we're doing, And then we would like you, when you're together,

850
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 2: to read each other your lists and discuss because we

851
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: think it's really important that you each understand that things

852
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: are going well because of the openness, the communication and

853
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: the work you're each putting into it.

854
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: The idea behind this, just to keep in mind as

855
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: you're doing it, is you seem to not really trust

856
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: that it could be going this well. That there must

857
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: be something wrong, there must be something that you're not seeing,

858
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: there's some red flag that you're missing. It's all going

859
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: to blow up, and so we want you to see

860
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: that there are reasons why this is going well and

861
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: that both of you are contributing to that in a

862
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: way that hasn't happened in your other relationships. The next

863
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: thing we'd like you to do is to make another list,

864
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,959
Speaker 1: and this has to do with your question about whether

865
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: you're good enough, and we'd like you to write down

866
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: all of the things that make you an appealing partner,

867
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: all of the reasons that someone would be thrilled to

868
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 1: beat with you. Why is your boyfriend with you because

869
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: he has really high standards and this is what you bring.

870
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: And every time you start to doubt and say am

871
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: I good enough? Am I too messy? All of those

872
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: questions that you have. We want you to take out

873
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 1: that list and look at it again.

874
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 3: Okay, I can do that. I am preemptively embarrassed, but

875
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 3: I will do that.

876
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 2: Good.

877
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: Good, Yes, we can see because you went silent. And

878
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: that's why we think you need to have it on

879
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: paper where you can look at it, not just in

880
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: your head. But we need you to write it down

881
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: and have it maybe posted above your desk and on

882
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: the bathroom mirror. Is something that you need to look

883
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: at frequently. Related to that, because this is really about

884
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 1: your anxiety, we'd like you to do a little reading.

885
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: And the book that we want to suggest is called

886
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: The Anxiety Toolkit by Alice Boyce Boyes, because the book

887
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: is just extremely practical.

888
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: Here's the next thing. Laurie and I both feel that

889
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: the reason you wrote to us was because you wanted

890
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: us to vet the fact that this seems to be

891
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: going well. But I'm obviously missing something and I can't

892
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 2: find it. Please help me find it so I know

893
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: what's wrong. And we think that you do that with

894
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 2: your friends as well. When your friends say to you

895
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 2: it's not wise perhaps to be in a relationship with

896
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: somebody who dated your ex, it's probably because you're setting

897
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: them up to say that by your presentation of like,

898
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 2: this probably crazy, but we met, we have the same

899
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: ex and that couldn't go well, right, And your friends

900
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 2: are like, he wants to hear right, and you say yes, yes,

901
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 2: you should be careful. So we'd like you to go

902
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: to each friend who validated incorrectly that this was problematic

903
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: and actually say to them, hey, I know I came

904
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: to you to validate my fears and my anxieties and

905
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: to think about the catastrophe that's looming so I can

906
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 2: see it coming because I don't see it coming yet.

907
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: But actually things are going quite well, and I wanted

908
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: to tell you about that and tell you a little

909
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: bit about why I think they're going well. So you

910
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 2: correct the impression so that your friends around you are

911
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: not sitting there waiting to cherry pick anything bad that happens.

912
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: Go to your friends to tell them it's working and

913
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 2: here's why. And do that with each of the ones

914
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: that you went to to get the validation for the

915
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,479
Speaker 2: doom and gloom that isn't here.

916
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 3: To my friend's credit, they I think are just being

917
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 3: protective after what I went through previously. But I can

918
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 3: definitely do that I think they'd be open to hearing

919
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 3: that feedback because I think everyone's been very protective and

920
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 3: it would be nice to have some positives.

921
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: If you do anything with them like you did with us,

922
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: you're inviting the negativity and you're not saying enough about

923
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: what is going really well and what makes you really happy.

924
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: And we had to really really pull that out of you.

925
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: So they're not working with the full picture here. They

926
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: don't know how well it's going. They don't know how

927
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: happy you are. You could say, I'm really terrified because

928
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: it is going so well, but I'm being boundaried. I'm

929
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: taking it slowly, i am protecting myself, and I feel

930
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: really good with the foundation that we're setting here. So

931
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: we need your friends to have a much fuller picture

932
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: so that when they do give you feedback, it's based

933
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: on how the relationship is actually going and not the

934
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: anxiety and the catastrophizing and the inviting disaster. The last

935
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: thing we would like you to start reclaiming the grapes,

936
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is there are these

937
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: places and spaces and food that you associate with your

938
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 1: ex and it still makes the X loom so large

939
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: in your life. But you're moving on to a different chapter.

940
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: And so if there are things that you truly enjoy,

941
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: maybe it's grapes, maybe it's a restaur hut, and it

942
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: doesn't have the shadow of the X looming over it.

943
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: The only way that the X really has an effect

944
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: on your life right now is the gift that your

945
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: EX gave both of you, which is that it taught

946
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: you both what you want and need in the next

947
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: relationship and how to do the work and how to

948
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: be different. That's the legacy of your EX. We don't

949
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: want it to be and we can't coach to this

950
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: restaurant and we can't eat these foods. Your X gave

951
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: you something so valuable, and now you're reaping the benefits.

952
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: And when you do go to these places and have

953
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 2: those grapes, intentionally create new associations around them that have

954
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 2: nothing to do with your X. Don't just go to

955
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: the restaurant for the sake of doing it, but go

956
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 2: for a happy occasion where celebrating something that's meaningful and

957
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: really intentionally create new associations to kind of eradicate the

958
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 2: old ones.

959
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: So how does all this advice sound?

960
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 3: That sounds really good? Thank you, excellent.

961
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: Well, we really look forward to hearing how this goes

962
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: for you this week.

963
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for your help and your

964
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: patients helping me pull it out of me. I apologize

965
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 3: for potentially having circular thoughts.

966
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: One more apology and you're going to get another task

967
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: and to eradicate apologies.

968
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: We're going to give you a non apology homework. If

969
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: you apologize again.

970
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 2: You do not need to apologize.

971
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 3: And just to say, your podcast did really help me

972
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 3: when I was going through a really tough time. I

973
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 3: think I did an eighteen and a half hour driver

974
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 3: a couple of days and listen to all of them.

975
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 3: So thanks for your help.

976
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: You know, Laurie, I remember in season one we had

977
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 2: a letter that the subtext of the letter was am

978
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: I a scumba? And hear the subtext of the session

979
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: not the letter, was am I happy? And I think

980
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: our answer was yeah, we think you're kind of happy,

981
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: albeit worried about it. And it was interesting to see

982
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: that time and again Andrew came back to, oh, but

983
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: this might be a problem, but that might be a problem,

984
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: and then hearing about the relationship, it was all so

985
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: solid that it was just very nice to be able

986
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 2: to say no, this is truly going quite well.

987
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: And I think he puts up these walls because he's

988
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: so wary that there's some red flag out there that

989
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: he's missing. It's important for him to be aware of

990
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: what's going on in the relationship, but if he's always

991
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: looking for a potential problem, he's never going to be

992
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: able to be really present. And as we said, enjoy

993
00:53:53,320 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: the happiness that he's actually experiencing. You're listening to, dear therapists.

994
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: We'll be back after a short break. Well, guy, we

995
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: heard back from Andrew, and let's hear how his week went.

996
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: Dear Laurie and Guy, your revice actually came at a

997
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 3: really good time. My partner recently visited and we went

998
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: on a prolonged two and a half day hike, which

999
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 3: was perfect time to sort of talk about everything that

1000
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 3: we feel and we had a lot of time to

1001
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 3: sort of connect. It was quite enlightening because I created

1002
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 3: a list of all the things that I thought made

1003
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 3: me an appealing partner and also what was working well

1004
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 3: on the relationship. And it turns out, after talking about

1005
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 3: that with my partner, he'd made a list quite early

1006
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 3: on in the relationship of all the things that he

1007
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 3: liked in me, all the things that he thought were

1008
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: green flags, and he decided to share that with me.

1009
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 3: And it was nice to sort of validate some of

1010
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 3: the things that I felt about myself, but also see

1011
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 3: myself through someone else's eyes in terms of linking how

1012
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 3: I was feeling and all the doubts that I had

1013
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 3: to my anxiety and stemming that all back to potential

1014
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 3: self hatred and self doubt that had crept in and

1015
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 3: maybe flared after a break up with my AX, which

1016
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 3: I think potentially my partner was also feeling at the

1017
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 3: time and also shares that feeling. It is nice to

1018
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 3: know that by talking these things through together and dispelling

1019
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 3: our anxieties through love and validation, It's been kind of

1020
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 3: special to do that with my partner. Unfortunately I haven't

1021
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 3: gotten around to reading the Anxiety Toolkit, but it is

1022
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 3: top of my list. I did talk to my friends

1023
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 3: and talked through how potentially the way that I was

1024
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 3: discussing the relationship was filled with self doubt, and they

1025
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: reiterated that notion but also said that they'll continue to

1026
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 3: look out for me, and that was affirming as well.

1027
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 3: I think I'm really lucky and I have good friends

1028
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 3: who do care, and it's nice to share this part

1029
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 3: of my relationship and my life with them. In terms

1030
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 3: of the reclaiming the greats, we have actually started on

1031
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: that one too, almost inspired by the food trope, I

1032
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,879
Speaker 3: have been cooking more and I've been deciding to make

1033
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 3: some meals that I used to make in the previous relationship,

1034
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: but with ingredient twists to cater to my current partner,

1035
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: and it's a good way to show that I care

1036
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 3: and for us to connect. So thank you for all

1037
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 3: your help and advice. It's actually I think brought me

1038
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,919
Speaker 3: closer together with my partner, and I hope to carry

1039
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 3: it forward in the future and work on that anxiety

1040
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 3: selped out a little bit so that I stopped second

1041
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 3: guessing things that might just be healthy and good.

1042
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 1: We don't really have much to say because he did

1043
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: everything so beautifully. I love that his partner already had

1044
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: that list, that he had made one himself, and it

1045
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: was at the ready.

1046
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: I know that really happens. That really happens, that we

1047
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: give over work and the partner's like none. It already anticipated.

1048
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, but it shows two that he was thinking

1049
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: through things that the partner's very thoughtful, sounds like they're

1050
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: a very good match, and that they're self reflective. They're

1051
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: both going into this after having dated this person that

1052
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: affected them in different ways. They're being very aware of

1053
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: the kind of relationship that they want. So I think

1054
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: the partner made that list thinking I'm going to be

1055
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: very aware going into this new relationship, and we know

1056
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: that Andrew wants to be very aware going into this

1057
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: new relationship too.

1058
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 2: I agree. And what occurred to me was that they

1059
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: met through this ex that each of them had dated,

1060
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: and they thought that was a problem for the relationship.

1061
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 2: But what it did is it forced them both to

1062
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: be very attentive to the relationship, mindful of how they're feeling,

1063
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: mindful of how things are developing. It might have turned

1064
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: out to be a gift in that way because it

1065
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: really put them on such a positive communicative note and

1066
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: thinking note from day one, which I think is really

1067
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: serving them now too.

1068
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even though this was a very specific situation,

1069
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: not a lot of people start dating because they dated

1070
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: the same person. I think this applies to everybody in

1071
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: terms of how do I deal with the ghosts of

1072
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: my past as I go into a new relationship, Like

1073
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: when he's reclaiming the grapes, he's doing something that gives

1074
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: him pleasure and he's not associating it now with the ex,

1075
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: but he's saying, and I've kind of tweaked the recipe,

1076
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: so it applies to this new relationship and all of

1077
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: the second guessing that people do after they've been hurt

1078
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: in a former relationship. He's really learning how to manage that.

1079
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: Look at what is actually happening now versus what am

1080
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: I spinning in my mind? That is not something that's

1081
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: a red flag. This wasn't a one time exercise. This

1082
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: was a way of being in the relationship as they

1083
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: go forward and move past whatever history they had with

1084
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: the ex and see who they are to each other.

1085
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 2: I think the moral of the story in this relationship

1086
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 2: is true for all relationships, and that is pay a

1087
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 2: lot of attention at the beginning, be excited, go with

1088
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: the flow, but be mindful and be thoughtful from day one.

1089
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 2: Next week, a woman whose family disowned her after she

1090
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: refused to loan her father a huge amount of money.

1091
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: One does how to grieve the loss and how to trust.

1092
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: Again That evening, why I call me. I thought he

1093
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: wanted to apologize, but then it was all about I'm

1094
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: not your dad anymore, You're not my daughter anymore. We're

1095
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: just strangers now. You mean nothing to me. If you're

1096
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for free so

1097
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: you don't miss any episodes, and please help support to

1098
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: your therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving

1099
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people

1100
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: to find the show.

1101
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

1102
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: email us at Lauriandguy at iHeartMedia dot com. Our executive

1103
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Josh Fisher,

1104
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 2: additional editing support by Zachary Fisher and Katie Matty. Our

1105
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 2: intern is an Anna Doherty and special thanks to our

1106
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: podcast fairy Godmother Katie Couric. We can't wait to see

1107
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 2: you at our next session. The Therapist is a production

1108
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:38,919
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio

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01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 3: Fish Food