WEBVTT - Ep. 75: Bear Grease [Render] - Deer Biologist, Randy Meeker & El Caminos 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.200 My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.400 the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.680 we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:31.240 of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.480 American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:43.960 to be as rugged as the places we explore. Hello, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.640 print tell me, uh, tell me what you've got on 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.800 your chain? All parts of it? That's called a watch fob, 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.840 watch fob. I got a pocket watch on the long 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.520 tucked into the top poultry overall, ye, and then there's 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.520 a watch fob there for decoration, and that is a 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.440 sterling silver coon. I just tolice that for the first 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.440 time today. Where'd you get that? That was a Follow's 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.680 Day present? Really? Where could a man acquire a sterling 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.960 raccoon fob? That? Could the fob come out of Austin, Texas, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:25.479 but the pocket watch come from London, England? Really, if 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.120 he wasn't so young, you had seen more of them 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:29.160 all old timers used to wear them in their overalls, 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.600 have the chain on the watch and had something that 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.720 would have stuff, you know, something on the end of 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.319 you could probably order that through night lot, Mike, could 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.960 this right here? Um is? I can't remember? You know 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.000 all this? This watch is made in England and it's 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:48.840 hard to find a watch it. Well, I'm gonna put it. 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.960 I'm gonna put a little video of your of your 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.400 raccoon on my Instagram. So, hey, welcome to the Bear 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.200 Grease Render Podcast. Mile mind. Do we have a great 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.800 show today? We've got a a not so normal group 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:10.720 of people. Usually have that defense. Don't take offense at that, guys, 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.959 Well I do, I do know. So we we've got 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.120 We've got one guest too. I'm gonna always introduce our 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.840 guests at the end. Okay, so I have we have 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.560 one guest here who is this is first time. Usually 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.480 the group of guys that are here and woman, my 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.760 wife is usually on the podcast. We kind of have 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.399 my dad, Gary nucle my wife, Misty, uh Josh Spillmaker, 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.480 Brent Reeves, and then the sixth person kind of comes 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.120 in and out as a as a special guest. A 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.280 lot of times it's Isaac Neil, but today is way different. 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.240 Uh Me and Brent are the only regulars. Now, you 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.840 guys are almost regulars, and I'll introduce that. But to 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.560 my left, Brent Reeves. Good see Brent beards looking nice 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.600 and trim looks. We get a little haircut. Okay, yesterday 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:02.600 I went and got got my hair pools. What my 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.080 grandmother would say when she went to the beauty parlor, 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.200 I don't I go to a barbershop? Sure enough, barbershop. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:13.000 Had you clarified that? To your left, Rusty Johnson, Old buddy, Rusty, 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.520 you've been on the Render one time and then you've 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:20.720 been on the Bear Grease podcast at least once. Because 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.760 you're a white tail secret keeper. H do have secrets. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:30.080 You're the ultimate white tail secret keeper. So special guests 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.480 who have not named yet, we did a whole podcast 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:37.840 on white Tail Secrets and basically explored how and why 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.680 people keep secrets, and how we distribute those secrets and 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:47.440 how relationally as humans there's some like deep like psychological 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:53.320 DNA stuff about who we tell stuff too. And so Rusty, 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.480 uh he was one of our feature guests on the 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.040 White Tail Secrets podcast, So we can get back to that. 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:02.920 But we're gonna crack some of those secrets today for sure. Good. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.400 So to your left is rust and Johnson, rust and 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.240 rustys Son, Yeah, and uh Man good to see you, bro, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.240 it's good to see you too. I get some intel 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.120 on some of those secrets, but I don't think all 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.920 of them really. Yeah, he tells you everything he knows. 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:26.320 He doesn't keep anything from me. He's kind of right now. Yeah, 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.240 i'd say maybe most, but no, the secrets are real, 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.719 The white tail secrets are real. They're for real. I 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:34.440 would in tend to agree. I get a lot of 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.960 pictures from people on my phone and big Bucks and 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.479 my my first my first question, Hey where's that at? 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:46.719 And it's crickets. I mean there's there's no more answer. 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.800 I mean I asked another question and it just it's 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.640 just like it's like that takes killed. It's cricket. It's well, 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.279 I got a brag on rust and rust and have 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.000 you graduated from law school yet? I finally graduated. Really, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.000 let's lose some let's do it. So man, that's a 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:08.640 big deal. Yeah, Russa is a whitetail guru, killer and 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.080 a lawyer. Yeah, I'm taking the barks in February about 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.039 taking it. Ye, I was supposed to take it back 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.920 in July, but I got COVID and kind of stunted 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.320 my study in so I just put a deferment in 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.840 and taking it in February so we can't. Yeah, but 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.480 doing that, you can just defend most shepherd when they 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.239 finally come after him. Yeah, I might need a good lawyer. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.440 Uh No, that's that's a quite an accomplishment. Man. How 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.400 old are you married to kids that try out Rutt 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:45.360 and Huntly? If that tells you anything about me? My kids? Incredible, incredible. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.880 You know, I took a little bit of persecution from 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.960 a few people who remain unnamed. Uh when we named 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.880 our children, which were I've got a sun named Bear, 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.880 daughter named River Willow. But I like it hunt That's 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.159 say their names again, So I had I had my 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.760 daughter first, her name is Huntley Huntley, and you know, 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.360 that's just that's good. But I remember on our hunt 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.720 in December, I was excited to tell y'all and y'all 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.600 came down with fire. I said, I'm naming my son's 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:20.920 bow hunter and y'all were like, oh, no, no, one 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.800 straight up, just bow hunter first name, bow Hunter. And yeah, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.200 everyone at the camp was like, oh, that's that's crazy. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.920 So I backtracked just a little bit and it's Rutt. 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.640 Now are ut? So I got Rusty, Rustin and Rutt. 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.560 My son's name is Drake Hunter. You're yeah, that's when 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.600 I was good and it was a full time guy. Yeah, 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.360 I mean I know him. Its hunter. And I thought 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.520 my name was go get Wood till I was like fourteen. 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.920 Mine still is that? Uh so rust and your your 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.440 wife's all on board with with with these names. Oh, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.120 that was the first date conversation for date. Yeah, I 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.200 said I'm a hunter and she said, oh, yeah, that's cool. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.839 I said, no, you don't realize. Yeah, I'm a I'm 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:12.000 a deer hunter. Right, that's good stuff. Great, well, skipping 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:17.200 our our guests, who will introduce at the end? Mos Shepherd? Man, 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.080 you be you're you're an old you're an old regular 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.920 on here. Yeah, you're you're when you can't findbody else, 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.680 you called me, so that's right, that's right. Yeah, Well, 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.040 I guess I'll call MO now. And to Mos. Right 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.800 is Ralphmaker of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. And 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.920 now you are the what's your title? You're the dear 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:42.400 biologist of state. Dear what state Deer Program Coordinator, State 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.720 dear program coordinator. Man, We're honored to have you today. Man, 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.160 I got a question for right off the bad. Well, 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:53.160 let the man introduce himself. Learning I'm happy to be 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.960 here away. Yeah. So you've you grew up in Arkansas 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.160 your whole life. Yes, yeah, I'm from Sebastian County. Uh, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.640 born raised in Greenwood, of course, went off to college 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.360 and uh got to live several places around the state. 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.440 And Uh, I think I'm up to fifty two counties 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.480 now where I've harvested the deer two out of seventy. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.520 I just love hunting everywhere. I mean, this state is 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.920 so diverse. Um. I was telling somebody the other day that, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.320 you know, there are very few states that you can 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:32.600 hunt uh deer, whitetail, deer, turkeys, uh, bear, elk an alligator. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.360 Uh you know, all in the same state. And the 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.680 habitats that we have, and the people, uh the communities. Um. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.240 I just I just love traveling the state and hunting 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.800 different places. All right, Editor, cut all that out. We 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.000 can't tell all these people to come to Arkansas. We're 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.520 supposed to tell him how hard it is. It's a 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.880 correct place. I mean it's amazing. Uh when when I 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.360 go to different meetings and meet different deer biologists and 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.200 talk to them, Um, you know there. Of course, they're 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.880 all proud of their state. But at the end of 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.760 the day, you know, they're like, man, I'm coming to 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.560 Arkansas to duck hunt. Uh, you know, is there someplace 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.720 like deer hunt while I'm there? You know, you know, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:18.000 dick down. They're they're wanting to come to Arkansas hunt deer. Yeah. So, 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.040 how long have you been with the agency? Uh? I'll 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.640 have been with the Game and Fish twenty years in March. Okay, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.880 how long have you been the deer program coordinator? I 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.040 have actually been in the deer program ten years, a 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.119 little over ten years. I've been the deer program coordinator 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.400 for about five now, five years. Okay, well, I want 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.480 to get up. I guess I'm I'm afraid if I 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.480 start asking you questions, We're gonna bypass a bunch of stuff. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.120 I've got a hundred questions I want to ask you 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:54.920 about Arkansas deer. Yeah, exactly, But your question, this is 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:59.200 gonna solve the mystery. Okay. Three episodes in a row, 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.280 I've heard on Meat Eat Steve and everybody talking about 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.680 the correct way to spell white tailed? Is it white tailed? 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.199 White dash tailed? White tailed? White tails? I want to 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.400 hear it from the gaff of Arkansas, would you write 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:19.840 a report it is what dash tailed and that's the 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:25.760 way it's official. That is the correct spelling of white 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:32.840 tailed deer on the calendar. So so from a grammar perspective, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.920 there would be two adjectives that would describe the deer. 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.200 So there would be a dash white tailed deer, and 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.800 it's and it's only those adjectives. I used to be 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.640 an editor, wouldn't God, that's very good. And it's only 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.240 capitalized if you use it at the beginning of the sentence, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.199 So if he comes in the middle of sentence, it's 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:57.959 it's a lowercase W. Man problem solved there, you go, Well, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.000 I guess cloak coolly. We've we've we've turned the term 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.000 white tail into like a single word. Even with like 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:11.920 North American white Tail the magazine, it's spelled as one word. Yeah. Uh. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.840 But but the great thing about it is when you 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.720 say white tail, everyone knows what you're talkingly. No matter 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.200 how you spell it or how many hyphens you put 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.880 in it. It's it's universally known. I can hear the 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.680 dash in there when you say it. Now you know 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:31.439 what it is. It white tailed d y E d 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:36.200 so not white tailed deer, white tailed deer, tailed, white tailed. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:45.240 That adds like another syllable. It's gonna yeah, you can't 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.199 say that very white tailed deer. So I got a 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:49.800 lot of edits to make because I wrote a law 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.560 review article with white tail just one word, and I 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.960 got an A on it. But really they didn't call 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.640 you out for it. Well, your third child could be 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:05.520 called white tailed John. There we go, and probably not 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.680 probably work work, So I said, I saw in the 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.240 beginning of this white tailed, white tailed Deer Stories, white 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.120 Tailed Deer Stories podcast that we just did add this 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.079 collection storytellers, and you guys all heard the intro where, uh, 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.880 I've made the statement that the white tailed deer hunting 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:31.319 culture of North America is really unparalleled in the world 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.360 in terms of hunting culture. Do you guys agree with that? Ralph? 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.000 Would you agree with that? Absolutely? You know what the 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.600 white tailed deer is actually the is the state animal 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:48.640 of nine different states. Okay, I mean that's including including Arkansas. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.640 That's exactly right. I mean it's uh, I mean people 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.120 take great pride in the white tailed deer. It's the 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.000 number one sought after big game species in the world. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.439 and there's nothing when when you talk about worldwide stuff, 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.560 us been from America. Sometimes we don't have insight into 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.240 exactly how things are done in other places. Obviously we're 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.880 not experts on it. But you know, in Africa, for instance, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.640 there's a lot of hunting that goes on there. But 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.640 it's it's it's seems to be much more general, like 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:23.120 they're after a suite of species um And certainly they 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.880 hunt specific animals in Europe and the red the red 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.920 deer and all kinds of stuff. But white tail deer, 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.640 I feel like, is the y geographic distribution of the 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.079 white tail in North America coupled with liberal hunting seasons, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:44.440 big populations like we don't realize how good we have it, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.880 even in the midst of us really value and deer, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.720 Like everybody in this room and a lot of people 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:57.000 listen to this really value dear. But when I I 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:58.640 do have a lot of friends that don't live in 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.240 the United States, and when they when they hear that 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:06.080 I hunt deer on my seven acres that I own 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:11.160 in my backyard, is just mind boggling, And it's super common. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.679 I mean, you know, it's it's it really is an 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.960 incredible thing. And I said something else that that we're 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.680 in the heyday of white tail deer hunting. Ralph, do 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.720 you think that's a crab statement. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, um, 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.720 we estimate or state farm estimates. So we we hit 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.600 about twenty two thousand deer each year in Arkansas alone. 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.920 We it wasn't until of the late mid to late 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:42.120 nineteen seventies that thoud deer were harvested statewide, and we're 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.800 hitting that many on the highways alone, just in Arkansas. 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:51.960 In Arkansas harvest harvest being that lower lower, like he said, 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.320 in the mid seventies or before. I mean, it's it's phenomenal, 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.120 phenomenal in the last you know, hundred years where we 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.880 have come from in deer populations and deer management. Why 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.480 is that like walk me through just kind of at 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:11.000 a high level, walk someone through from about you know, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:15.200 the market hunting days of the late eighteen hundreds to two, 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.640 when we've got deer numbers like we have, Like just 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.080 give us kind of like a high level overview of 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.760 the extra pation, the reintroduction. And you can use Arkansas, 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.720 but you know you can talk about broader picture too. Yeah. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.840 So you know, in the in the late eighteen hundreds 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.560 up into the early nineteen hundreds. Uh. You know, unregulated 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.120 marking hunting was almost the end to a lot of 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.520 our species, not just whitetail deer, you know, black bear, turkeys, um. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.360 Uh you know, the passenger pigeon, all of these animals, 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:50.600 black panthers, black panthers. That's right. That that'll be another episode, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.320 you know, with with Theodore Roosevelt, the Boone and Crockett Club. UM. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:01.000 You know, early conservationists really brought forth, um, the idea 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:02.800 that if we don't take care of it, we're fixing 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.080 to lose it. And so with the passing of uh, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.280 you know, several exercise tack you know, the Dingle Johnson Act, 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.680 the Pittman Robertson Act, UH, the creation of the Department 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.800 of Interior State Parks, UM. And then you know, soon 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.560 after followed a lot of uh state agencies like the 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.480 Game and Fish In nineteen fifteen, UM, you know, we 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.280 started developing these game refuges, um, you know, places set 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.840 aside both the both federal and state. UH. And they 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.040 really started these restocking efforts and and uh, you know 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.720 in the nineteen twenties and thirties that they estimated that 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.040 we had fewer than five deer statewide. And uh so 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.200 you know, going back and doing some research. UM there's 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.840 a great book called Arkansas Wildlife, and it goes into 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.040 a lot of these restocking efforts. But you know, the 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.520 game and fish. They were asking people who had deerest 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.040 pets they wanted to buy them. Uh. We started importing 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.960 deer from Wisconsin, uh, North Carolina, Texas, UM, you know, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.520 and and uh you know, started stocking these game refuges 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.280 and then wanted to do and then we had these 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.240 game farms where we actually raised deer in pens that 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.680 were captured and then they were uh you know, once 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.760 the fonds were born, we would stock those and then 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.280 we catch deer out of traps in different places like Felsenthal, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:24.720 White Rock of northern Franklin County, uh Black Mountain Game Refuge. Uh. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:29.600 And so they started moving deer around and populating these areas. Uh. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:34.120 And in nineteen thirty eight, we actually started recording, uh 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.960 creating mandatory reporting for deer harvest. And in that year 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.119 we we uh we harvested two hundred and three deer statewide. UH. 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.359 And so from you know the early um, you know, 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:51.200 nineteen thirties up until really really the nineteen nineties, UH, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.080 dough harvest was was pretty restricted, and it was for 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.879 you know, the sole purposes of growing our deer population. 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.600 You know, in in uh the late nineteen mid or 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.439 mid I would say mid nineteen nineties, a lot of 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.399 places we realized, how we better get ahold of this 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.320 because the dear population is growing fast. And so then 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.720 we went from growing dear populations, uh to really managing populations, 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.399 molding them into what we what we wanted. And and 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.560 this concept, you know in Texas, Mississippi had been done 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.440 for several years at this point, so we really adopted 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.000 the quality of deer management ideology where we start looking 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:32.240 at balancing buckado ratios and managing cross age classes and 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.679 protecting younger bucks to get because you know, up until 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.000 the three point rule, about sixty eight percent of the 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.960 bucks that we harvested were a year and a half 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.880 and younger. Uh. Now we routinely rank in the top 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.560 five in the nation, and the percentage of our three 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.800 and a half year old bucks that are harvests so 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.679 we have done a one eight so about about ninety 0:18:52.800 --> 0:19:00.399 six or so rule. The three point rules was ninety eight. Yeah. Um, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.960 and so now you know, in two thousand and sixteen, Uh, 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.040 you know, the bomb got dropped on us and we 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.800 found CWD, and so now we're having to rethink some 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.200 of the things that we have really promoted in the past. Uh, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:18.440 in order to combat, you know, the spread of CWD. So, UM, 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.000 you know, I and I tell folks you know, c 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.399 W d is is is a bad thing. Uh. But 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.800 disease management has always been part of the equation. Uh. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:28.920 It's just gonna be a bigger part of that equation now, 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.879 so that we ensure that, you know, we have deer populations, 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.159 you know, for for many generations to come. That's a 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:50.080 good overview when you hear the nineteen thirties and deer 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.000 harvests being tunter deer in the state. What's what's the 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.760 deer harvest today in the state. We're we're averaging around 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.320 two hundred thousand. We've these last few years have been 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.760 kind of a roller coaster ride. That was the largest record, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.800 That was the our largest harvest on record at almost 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.479 two hundred seventeen thousand. Wow. So that's a mathematician over here, 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:18.440 my lawyer from two is that is that a thousandfold increase, 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:23.440 or a hundredfold would be twenty thousand thousand. What I'm 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.200 thinking about, though, is that this wasn't that long ago. 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.280 I mean, like my grandfather was born in nineteen nineteen, 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.960 and he would have been, you know, a teenager and 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.719 a grown man during a time period when they're just 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.760 weren't that many deer. My dad was born in nineteen ten, 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:45.520 and he talked about when he got back from World 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.280 War Two that there wasn't no dear to be found. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.160 That you know that that if you saw a deer 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.200 track out of the mountains where I grew up and 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.040 where he grew up and lived his old, live and 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.600 ere thing, that people almost come to look to see 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.240 the deer track because there just wasn't any deer. Yeah, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.960 isn't that story wild? Yeah? Everybody tells that same story 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:09.760 because it's true. See a deer track. Neighbor would go 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.000 and tell the ask, and they where's that track? We'd 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.000 actually a deer track. I've never seen one. And what 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.360 surprises me about most of those stories is they track 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:22.720 that sucker down and kill it. Yeah. No, but that 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.040 that it wasn't that long ago. And so you can 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.919 see that in the span of a humans life, like 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.800 a lot can change, which is which is really encouraging, 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.719 but it also puts you on kind of red alert, 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:40.639 you know, with some of the stuff that's going on, 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.000 I mean primarily c w D and some of these 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.080 other diseases that you know, when you know our kids 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:52.120 and when when uh rutt is an old man? Um, 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.400 should the earth even be here? Which I don't think 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.720 it will be, um, but will there be deer here? 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.640 I mean, you know, nothing's nothing and stays the same. Yeah, 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.680 it's always moving, but hopefully we can, you know. I 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:07.879 mean that's why we're here. I mean, you're exactly right. 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.320 I mean, I mean we we are enjoying really the 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.680 golden age of white till. I mean I I had 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.240 the fortune enough to uh speak to a guy on 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.760 a telephone, um, just a couple of years ago, and 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.320 uh he he was a founding member of a deer 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.760 camp in Bradley County and he had was telling the 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.280 other gentleman. He was the oldest man in his camp, 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.359 and he was telling them about when we stalked deer 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:37.359 in a game refuge that was right there on the 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.160 county line, right next to their deer camp. And uh, 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.639 he had called me in and um, you know, I 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:44.680 did some research after talking with him, and I called 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:46.720 him back. I said, you know, I think you're right. 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:51.560 But he said he remembers them opening the boxes they 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.640 had caught these deer in Wisconsin and opening the boxes 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.360 and those deer jumping out. I think he said there 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:58.520 was nine of them. And he said there wasn't one 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.879 hair on those deer. Really had shipped them by train 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.080 down here. And he said he remembers when they first 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:09.159 stocked that and I think it was not teen forty six. Um, 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.000 But you know, just to be able to speak to 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.240 somebody that experienced history like that, to be able to 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:16.639 tell the other members of his camp, hey, you know, 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:18.840 and now they're they're harvesting a hundred deer a year 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.440 in that deer camp or whatever it is, and it's like, 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.360 you know, maybe they started from those first nine deer 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.879 and that's yeah, that's pretty pretty neat. That is it? Really? Is? 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.359 It really is? Um? Who else had a question for 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.240 Ralpha as specific question? Did you say you had a 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:37.679 specific question? Bo No, I was just gonna say, when 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.320 you guys are real mouth. When he was talking about 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.000 the game refuge, and stuff. My dad took me when 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.199 I was just a young kid and showed me some 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:48.120 of the little boundary posts and stuff of the Black 0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:50.439 Mountain Refuge and all that, and he said, you know, 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.879 we would drive over here just then, said here and 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:55.560 when it wasn't even dear seasons, see if we might 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.560 see a deer. You know. Yeah, And you know a 0:23:57.560 --> 0:23:59.760 lot of a lot of deer camps. Not I actually 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.920 started deer hunting on White Rock. That's where our deer 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:05.720 camp was when I when I first started deer hunting. Uh. 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.200 And a lot of deer camps across the state. Uh, 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:12.680 they were established right next to these game refuges. When 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.560 they opened up, they would allow people to camp there 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.520 on the on the refuge or adjacent to it. And 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.560 and that's where they hunted. That that was what my 0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:22.320 dad talked about, He said, when when they allowed it 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:24.080 to hunt, and that's where everybody went and hunted when 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:25.840 they first opened him up. Even though the deer were 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.800 this person O there is the biggest concentration of deer 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.280