1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Laurel Kenyon, Hayde Ashbury and Swinging London are a 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:25,196 Speaker 1: few of the locations that come to mind when we 3 00:00:25,236 --> 00:00:29,396 Speaker 1: think about the powerhouse music scenes of the sixties, but Canada, 4 00:00:29,836 --> 00:00:33,716 Speaker 1: anywhere in Canada, rarely comes up. But after listening to 5 00:00:33,796 --> 00:00:36,996 Speaker 1: Randy Bachman talk about his musical baptism across the Great 6 00:00:37,036 --> 00:00:39,996 Speaker 1: Plains of the Great White North, all that might change 7 00:00:40,036 --> 00:00:43,876 Speaker 1: for you. Bachman is a master guitarist and songwriter with 8 00:00:43,916 --> 00:00:46,236 Speaker 1: twelve hits to his name. Between the guests Who and 9 00:00:46,556 --> 00:00:50,596 Speaker 1: Bachman Turner Overdrive. On today's episode, Bruce Helm talks to 10 00:00:50,636 --> 00:00:53,676 Speaker 1: Bachman as he dissects some of the incredible songs he's written, 11 00:00:53,716 --> 00:00:57,476 Speaker 1: including an American Woman and These Eyes. He also discussed 12 00:00:57,476 --> 00:01:00,156 Speaker 1: how he became one of the greatest guitars of his generation. 13 00:01:03,196 --> 00:01:06,436 Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 14 00:01:06,596 --> 00:01:11,396 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richman. Here's Bruce conversation with Randy Bachman. 15 00:01:12,636 --> 00:01:14,796 Speaker 2: Listening to talk about your songs in the past and 16 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:18,276 Speaker 2: reading your book. What fascinated me, as someone who's never 17 00:01:18,276 --> 00:01:23,476 Speaker 2: written a song, is how you took other songs and 18 00:01:23,556 --> 00:01:26,596 Speaker 2: just transformed them and the roots for some of those 19 00:01:26,636 --> 00:01:31,516 Speaker 2: songs you mentioned. I think laughing came out of a platter. 20 00:01:31,596 --> 00:01:36,756 Speaker 2: Song came out of that ascending figure in twilight Time, 21 00:01:37,596 --> 00:01:40,716 Speaker 2: and nobody is nobody on earth who would have picked 22 00:01:40,716 --> 00:01:43,436 Speaker 2: that out. But somehow you took that from one song 23 00:01:43,516 --> 00:01:47,316 Speaker 2: and just made it work that whatever that old line 24 00:01:47,356 --> 00:01:50,996 Speaker 2: is about geniuses is covering up your influences. 25 00:01:51,156 --> 00:01:52,996 Speaker 3: Are we running? Because you should have this on tape? 26 00:01:53,036 --> 00:01:54,676 Speaker 2: Are we running? Yeah? We're running? 27 00:01:54,756 --> 00:01:57,476 Speaker 3: Okay. I grew up playing violin. I started when I 28 00:01:57,556 --> 00:02:01,596 Speaker 3: was five, real conservatory. So I'm playing Chopin, Shaikovsky, all 29 00:02:01,596 --> 00:02:04,156 Speaker 3: this stuff. I don't know what I'm doing. My teacher 30 00:02:04,356 --> 00:02:06,676 Speaker 3: would put the music down in front of me. I 31 00:02:06,756 --> 00:02:08,796 Speaker 3: should play it first, and I've heard that. She put 32 00:02:08,796 --> 00:02:11,316 Speaker 3: it from me, and I'd play it. Go wow, take 33 00:02:11,316 --> 00:02:13,116 Speaker 3: that home and practice it for a week. Well, I 34 00:02:13,116 --> 00:02:16,036 Speaker 3: already know it. Give me two or three. I was 35 00:02:16,116 --> 00:02:17,756 Speaker 3: learning by ear because I would listen to her and 36 00:02:17,796 --> 00:02:19,796 Speaker 3: I would watch her fingers, and I was learning to play. 37 00:02:20,156 --> 00:02:23,036 Speaker 3: The music didn't mean anything to me, and I got 38 00:02:23,036 --> 00:02:25,316 Speaker 3: that way till I was about fourteen. I'm a very 39 00:02:25,356 --> 00:02:29,476 Speaker 3: good classical violinist. And she said you should go in an 40 00:02:29,436 --> 00:02:32,676 Speaker 3: audition for the Winnipeg Junior School Symphony eighty five. Kids 41 00:02:32,716 --> 00:02:35,316 Speaker 3: like a big symphony and you'll be second violin. There's 42 00:02:35,356 --> 00:02:39,676 Speaker 3: four violins, a couple of yolas, cellos and stuff. So 43 00:02:39,716 --> 00:02:41,476 Speaker 3: I go to this audition, which is a Neil Young's 44 00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:44,276 Speaker 3: school in Winnipeg. It's in the Cristin High School the 45 00:02:44,276 --> 00:02:45,956 Speaker 3: other side of Winnipeg. So it's a Saturday morning. I 46 00:02:46,036 --> 00:02:49,156 Speaker 3: go in there with my violin. They put a piece 47 00:02:49,156 --> 00:02:51,156 Speaker 3: in front of us. I know it. It's the Chaikovsky 48 00:02:51,276 --> 00:02:56,116 Speaker 3: kind of thing. And halfway through into the song, the 49 00:02:56,156 --> 00:03:00,716 Speaker 3: conductor taps the thing and he goes, second violin, bar 50 00:03:00,836 --> 00:03:03,636 Speaker 3: thirty two. It's an E flat, not an E natural. 51 00:03:03,756 --> 00:03:05,516 Speaker 3: Let's take it from the top. I don't know what 52 00:03:05,556 --> 00:03:08,156 Speaker 3: he's talking about. I don't know what bar thirty two is. 53 00:03:08,556 --> 00:03:11,396 Speaker 3: I don't know what flat is. I'm playing notes that 54 00:03:11,476 --> 00:03:12,876 Speaker 3: when I want to hear a note, I know where 55 00:03:12,916 --> 00:03:14,956 Speaker 3: my finger goes on the second string or third string 56 00:03:14,996 --> 00:03:17,916 Speaker 3: and my bugle. That way, we start the song again. 57 00:03:19,756 --> 00:03:21,596 Speaker 3: I get the same plot. I play the same note, 58 00:03:22,076 --> 00:03:27,476 Speaker 3: tap tap tap, second violin. Can you what don't you 59 00:03:27,556 --> 00:03:29,436 Speaker 3: understand about an E flat? And I go I don't know. 60 00:03:29,476 --> 00:03:32,516 Speaker 3: He said, can you please play? Can you play an e? 61 00:03:32,716 --> 00:03:35,916 Speaker 3: I'm sure, it's open string the violin. Can you play 62 00:03:35,916 --> 00:03:39,356 Speaker 3: an E flat? I don't know what we're on? E 63 00:03:39,436 --> 00:03:42,476 Speaker 3: flat is you can't go below that. Here's your E string. 64 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:44,676 Speaker 3: You can't go down there. I don't realize that the 65 00:03:44,676 --> 00:03:47,116 Speaker 3: string before that is in needing to play flat. You 66 00:03:47,156 --> 00:03:49,156 Speaker 3: go the string before and you go down there's an 67 00:03:49,156 --> 00:03:50,996 Speaker 3: E flat that doesn't click on. I mean in front 68 00:03:51,036 --> 00:03:54,236 Speaker 3: of eighty five kids. Okay, right, And he says, what 69 00:03:54,276 --> 00:03:58,156 Speaker 3: don't you understand? And I figured, fuck this. I put 70 00:03:58,196 --> 00:03:59,796 Speaker 3: my violin in the case. I get on the bus, 71 00:03:59,836 --> 00:04:02,836 Speaker 3: I go home. It's a Saturday morning. This is how 72 00:04:02,956 --> 00:04:04,756 Speaker 3: to go. I said, I'm never playing violin again. I 73 00:04:04,756 --> 00:04:09,076 Speaker 3: don't know what I'm doing. Everyone's laughing at me. I'm done. 74 00:04:10,796 --> 00:04:14,836 Speaker 3: The next day, my aunt comes over, my mother's younger sister. 75 00:04:14,836 --> 00:04:16,756 Speaker 3: My mother's like thirty something. My aunt, just like ten 76 00:04:16,836 --> 00:04:20,676 Speaker 3: years younger, puts on television and sees Elvis, and I go, 77 00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:23,556 Speaker 3: what is that? Because I had been classically trained, Well, 78 00:04:23,556 --> 00:04:25,956 Speaker 3: that's called rock and roll. That's called the guitar. And 79 00:04:25,996 --> 00:04:28,556 Speaker 3: that guy's name is Elvis Presley. So when you're from 80 00:04:28,636 --> 00:04:31,116 Speaker 3: Winnipeg and your best friend is Joey Goldberg or something, 81 00:04:31,556 --> 00:04:33,996 Speaker 3: you don't hear a name like Elvis Presley, like what's 82 00:04:34,116 --> 00:04:36,556 Speaker 3: his name? Again? Over and over, and I said, I 83 00:04:36,556 --> 00:04:39,236 Speaker 3: want to do that. It's so wild compared to classical music, 84 00:04:39,236 --> 00:04:40,956 Speaker 3: where you have to stand a certain way. You can't 85 00:04:40,996 --> 00:04:42,996 Speaker 3: rest your elbow when you're tired. You have to stand 86 00:04:43,036 --> 00:04:44,836 Speaker 3: this way and do all of this grandiose up and 87 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:49,396 Speaker 3: down bowstroke. And so I started to copy Elvis. And 88 00:04:50,036 --> 00:04:52,916 Speaker 3: my cousins had a guitar. They taught me three chords. 89 00:04:53,236 --> 00:04:55,436 Speaker 3: But with the minute I got the guitar, I could 90 00:04:55,476 --> 00:04:57,276 Speaker 3: play all the leads on it, because on violin, all 91 00:04:57,276 --> 00:04:59,316 Speaker 3: he plays the top line. You play lead on violin. 92 00:04:59,556 --> 00:05:01,956 Speaker 3: So I've been playing lead since I was five. Like 93 00:05:01,996 --> 00:05:03,996 Speaker 3: ten years later, I get a guitar and I'm playing lead, 94 00:05:04,436 --> 00:05:10,036 Speaker 3: and playing lead is very easy. But it was like 95 00:05:10,116 --> 00:05:12,316 Speaker 3: wandering in the forest. I didn't know where I was going. 96 00:05:12,676 --> 00:05:14,476 Speaker 3: And then a guy moved to Winnipeg. His name was 97 00:05:14,556 --> 00:05:17,516 Speaker 3: Lenny Brow, one year older than me. He had been 98 00:05:17,516 --> 00:05:20,076 Speaker 3: playing since he was six in his family band. His 99 00:05:20,156 --> 00:05:22,996 Speaker 3: dad was like Roy Rogers, his mother like Dale Evans. 100 00:05:23,236 --> 00:05:25,316 Speaker 3: If you ever grew up seeing Roy Rogers, Happy trails 101 00:05:25,316 --> 00:05:26,876 Speaker 3: to you. At gene Autry at the end of the 102 00:05:27,036 --> 00:05:28,916 Speaker 3: Cowboy movie. They'd sing with the Son of the Pioneers, 103 00:05:28,956 --> 00:05:30,996 Speaker 3: cool clear water and stuff like that. That's what a 104 00:05:31,036 --> 00:05:34,236 Speaker 3: sprid Ringo star was the Cowboy movies of Geene Autry 105 00:05:34,236 --> 00:05:38,476 Speaker 3: and Roy Rogers. And he played this country band his 106 00:05:38,516 --> 00:05:41,236 Speaker 3: fathers called hall Loan Pine. The mother is Betty Cody. 107 00:05:41,276 --> 00:05:44,036 Speaker 3: They made up these western names, and he was hel 108 00:05:44,116 --> 00:05:47,356 Speaker 3: Lone Pine Junior. But he played a big orange gretch 109 00:05:47,436 --> 00:05:49,556 Speaker 3: and I didn't know if the gretches were orange. You 110 00:05:49,636 --> 00:05:52,276 Speaker 3: see an American band, then it's black and white. I 111 00:05:52,316 --> 00:05:55,076 Speaker 3: saw Chuck Barry, Dwayne Eddie, Eddie Copperant all playing this 112 00:05:55,156 --> 00:05:58,236 Speaker 3: cool looking guitar. And when one came into Winnipeg and 113 00:05:58,276 --> 00:06:01,036 Speaker 3: we see it in the store window and it's orange. Wow, 114 00:06:01,476 --> 00:06:04,356 Speaker 3: that guitar is orange. Is like a giant pumpkin. It's incredible. 115 00:06:04,756 --> 00:06:07,036 Speaker 3: So I bought that one. Neil Young bought the next 116 00:06:07,036 --> 00:06:08,716 Speaker 3: one that came in a month later. He still got 117 00:06:08,756 --> 00:06:12,596 Speaker 3: his mind stolen. But then you learned to play guitar 118 00:06:12,756 --> 00:06:15,756 Speaker 3: like that. And this guy had been was playing with 119 00:06:15,796 --> 00:06:17,436 Speaker 3: his parents. Man, they had him quit school when he 120 00:06:17,436 --> 00:06:20,196 Speaker 3: was ten, so he's playing since he was six. He's mastered. 121 00:06:20,476 --> 00:06:23,676 Speaker 3: So he taught me five Chad Atkins albums, three Merle Travis. 122 00:06:23,756 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 3: I'm then I starting to get Howard Roberts and Barney 123 00:06:26,156 --> 00:06:29,236 Speaker 3: Kessel and stuff like that. And after you learn that stuff, 124 00:06:29,516 --> 00:06:31,996 Speaker 3: ched Atkins is like a vocabulary because every album of 125 00:06:32,036 --> 00:06:35,756 Speaker 3: his is classical and bluegrass, on country and rock and everything. 126 00:06:35,756 --> 00:06:38,156 Speaker 3: He just played absolutely everything. So that was like a 127 00:06:38,196 --> 00:06:41,876 Speaker 3: great thing for me. But Lenny Brow said to me 128 00:06:41,916 --> 00:06:43,596 Speaker 3: one thing. His real name was Lenny Brow. He was 129 00:06:43,596 --> 00:06:45,476 Speaker 3: held in Pine Junior, but his family name was Bro. 130 00:06:47,156 --> 00:06:49,396 Speaker 3: You're a really really good guitar player for your age. 131 00:06:49,436 --> 00:06:51,756 Speaker 3: Because everybody in Winnipeg wanted lessons from me because they 132 00:06:51,796 --> 00:06:54,276 Speaker 3: couldn't speak to Lenny Bro. He started and stammered, and 133 00:06:54,276 --> 00:06:55,956 Speaker 3: I had a brother who started, Who I did? You 134 00:06:55,956 --> 00:06:58,356 Speaker 3: ain't see nothing yet after, So you know how to 135 00:06:58,396 --> 00:07:01,396 Speaker 3: communicate with a guy who's status the stummer. You never 136 00:07:01,396 --> 00:07:03,796 Speaker 3: try to correct him or say sentences. You just let him. 137 00:07:03,996 --> 00:07:06,356 Speaker 3: He relax and then he starts to slowly speak to you. 138 00:07:06,676 --> 00:07:09,236 Speaker 3: So I could speak to Lennibro all the time, and 139 00:07:09,276 --> 00:07:11,556 Speaker 3: I I was a year younger than him. He had 140 00:07:11,596 --> 00:07:14,516 Speaker 3: no girlfriends. I had girlfriends. I introduced him to kids. 141 00:07:14,556 --> 00:07:17,316 Speaker 3: He came from Maine up to Winnipeg and live there. 142 00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:20,156 Speaker 3: So he said to me, there will always be like 143 00:07:20,196 --> 00:07:23,956 Speaker 3: the wild West. That'll always be a younger, faster gunslinger 144 00:07:24,236 --> 00:07:27,876 Speaker 3: who's going to come to town and shoot you down. Learn 145 00:07:28,156 --> 00:07:33,356 Speaker 3: to write good songs. Wow, I really, he said, I've 146 00:07:33,356 --> 00:07:35,316 Speaker 3: been playing this is my favorite song, and he played 147 00:07:35,316 --> 00:07:38,156 Speaker 3: Funny Valentine and he said that nod was my favorite song. 148 00:07:38,196 --> 00:07:40,276 Speaker 3: It was Chet Baker's favorite song. It was so and 149 00:07:40,316 --> 00:07:43,836 Speaker 3: so favorite song. It'll be Michael Bubla's favorite the next 150 00:07:43,956 --> 00:07:46,516 Speaker 3: flatter it'll be his favorite song. So write a good song. 151 00:07:46,556 --> 00:07:48,876 Speaker 3: And by the way you play guitar. Look, everybody forgets it. 152 00:07:49,076 --> 00:07:52,476 Speaker 3: If you write a good song, it's it's it's it's forever, 153 00:07:52,756 --> 00:07:55,436 Speaker 3: and you get paid forever. He said, what do you mean. 154 00:07:55,476 --> 00:07:57,396 Speaker 3: So when it's played on the radio, they pay you 155 00:07:57,436 --> 00:08:00,676 Speaker 3: a couple of pennies. But if you make a door 156 00:08:00,716 --> 00:08:02,916 Speaker 3: and sell your door for two hundred bucks, you gets 157 00:08:02,956 --> 00:08:05,196 Speaker 3: sold later for two thousand dollars as an antique door. 158 00:08:05,396 --> 00:08:07,956 Speaker 3: Nobody sends you any money. But when you write a song, 159 00:08:07,996 --> 00:08:10,196 Speaker 3: you get your couple of pennies. You keep getting your 160 00:08:10,236 --> 00:08:12,236 Speaker 3: couple of pennies. So write a whole bunch of songs, 161 00:08:12,356 --> 00:08:14,556 Speaker 3: get a whole bunch of couple of pennies, you'll have 162 00:08:14,596 --> 00:08:18,156 Speaker 3: a really good life. So I meet Burton Cummings. We 163 00:08:18,316 --> 00:08:20,676 Speaker 3: idolized the Beatles and the Stones and every record that 164 00:08:20,716 --> 00:08:25,556 Speaker 3: came out, Burt Backrack, Hal David, Brian Wilson, the great song. 165 00:08:25,796 --> 00:08:29,236 Speaker 3: Let's copy these guys and Burton, you copy a song. 166 00:08:29,276 --> 00:08:30,796 Speaker 3: I'll copy a song and I'll play you what I 167 00:08:30,916 --> 00:08:33,596 Speaker 3: think and if you could recognize it, then I haven't 168 00:08:33,636 --> 00:08:36,876 Speaker 3: copied a good song. Okay, you do one. 169 00:08:37,676 --> 00:08:39,876 Speaker 2: You have said so much. We have to unpack a 170 00:08:39,956 --> 00:08:47,236 Speaker 2: little bit because you know, there are guitarists. Everybody knows 171 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:51,716 Speaker 2: there's Eric Clapton and there's Eddie van Halen. Then they're 172 00:08:51,716 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 2: the guitarists other guitarists talk about. I think you're in 173 00:08:54,996 --> 00:08:55,676 Speaker 2: that category. 174 00:08:55,956 --> 00:08:56,276 Speaker 3: Really. 175 00:08:56,676 --> 00:08:58,436 Speaker 2: Oh, I had when I first moved to New York. 176 00:08:58,476 --> 00:09:01,556 Speaker 2: I took a couple lessons from a guy who was 177 00:09:01,556 --> 00:09:04,916 Speaker 2: a jazz player. He actually had no money, turned down 178 00:09:04,916 --> 00:09:07,156 Speaker 2: a record deal because they wanted to him to play 179 00:09:07,236 --> 00:09:11,236 Speaker 2: like Stevie on Yeah. And he was, Oh, that's that 180 00:09:11,356 --> 00:09:16,676 Speaker 2: garbage comes up. I'm Canadian. He goes, Oh, Randy Bachman, 181 00:09:17,956 --> 00:09:21,036 Speaker 2: you were oh for for him? You were like at 182 00:09:21,036 --> 00:09:21,356 Speaker 2: the toll. 183 00:09:21,996 --> 00:09:23,836 Speaker 3: I've had a lot of New York guitar players tell 184 00:09:23,916 --> 00:09:25,916 Speaker 3: me that. Oh yes, I said, I was the first 185 00:09:25,956 --> 00:09:27,796 Speaker 3: guy in rock and roll to play a minor seven 186 00:09:27,836 --> 00:09:29,036 Speaker 3: with the ninth on is What do you mean? I 187 00:09:29,076 --> 00:09:31,596 Speaker 3: didn't even realize, because I didn't know what anything was called. 188 00:09:31,916 --> 00:09:34,276 Speaker 3: I'm playing by ear, following Lenny Bro's fingers, so it's 189 00:09:34,316 --> 00:09:48,076 Speaker 3: shaken them over. So goes the minor seven with the 190 00:09:48,156 --> 00:09:50,356 Speaker 3: ninth on top. I didn't know what that was. To 191 00:09:50,396 --> 00:09:53,516 Speaker 3: put that in a rock and roll song, like, to 192 00:09:53,516 --> 00:09:55,196 Speaker 3: put that in it was like it was genius? 193 00:09:55,316 --> 00:09:57,396 Speaker 2: Now was there not a Was there not a ninth 194 00:09:57,436 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 2: in the original? In the in the English? Was oh interesting? 195 00:10:00,636 --> 00:10:01,516 Speaker 3: They played the notes? 196 00:10:01,876 --> 00:10:04,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, I played it as chords, Oh I see. 197 00:10:04,316 --> 00:10:11,476 Speaker 3: And they played mine went one guitar I made. I 198 00:10:11,516 --> 00:10:20,636 Speaker 3: made a chord out of it. Yeah, I'm playing chords. 199 00:10:20,676 --> 00:10:25,676 Speaker 3: He's going, Oh I see, I made chords out of it. 200 00:10:25,956 --> 00:10:28,356 Speaker 3: And also I did the shake. Yeah there's no shake 201 00:10:28,396 --> 00:10:30,476 Speaker 3: on the original. I went, I had a big screen. 202 00:10:30,716 --> 00:10:33,356 Speaker 3: I wanged it like Matt Rall. I had the bass 203 00:10:33,396 --> 00:10:36,596 Speaker 3: for your goal and he also did that on that 204 00:10:36,596 --> 00:10:38,756 Speaker 3: that note, and it made the whole record. 205 00:10:38,916 --> 00:10:42,516 Speaker 2: Now Lenny bro is at the top of the list 206 00:10:42,596 --> 00:10:45,236 Speaker 2: of guitarists other guitarists talk about. I just saw an 207 00:10:45,276 --> 00:10:48,676 Speaker 2: interview recently with Andy Summers, and it was in the eighties, 208 00:10:48,716 --> 00:10:51,596 Speaker 2: so he's in the Police, the biggest band in the 209 00:10:51,596 --> 00:10:54,236 Speaker 2: world at that point, and he sort of says to 210 00:10:54,276 --> 00:10:56,276 Speaker 2: the interviewer, says, you probably don't know who this is. 211 00:10:56,316 --> 00:10:58,956 Speaker 2: The interviewer diad Actually he said, but I got a 212 00:10:59,036 --> 00:11:02,276 Speaker 2: lesson with Lenny Bro when he's when Andy Summers is 213 00:11:02,316 --> 00:11:05,996 Speaker 2: like on top. Lenny Bro charged him forty dollars. He's 214 00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:10,596 Speaker 2: this unbelievable player who he did a couple of live albums. 215 00:11:10,636 --> 00:11:14,876 Speaker 2: He died young and tragically. There's some he was murdered. 216 00:11:15,156 --> 00:11:17,356 Speaker 2: Oh he was Oh, I had no idea by. 217 00:11:17,316 --> 00:11:19,956 Speaker 3: His wife's brother, who was a dope dealer in la 218 00:11:20,236 --> 00:11:21,556 Speaker 3: Oh he didn't pay. 219 00:11:21,916 --> 00:11:22,836 Speaker 2: Oh, that's very sad. 220 00:11:22,876 --> 00:11:25,396 Speaker 3: They found him floating in a pool, face down with 221 00:11:25,436 --> 00:11:28,276 Speaker 3: no water in his lungs. They'd been strangled thrown in 222 00:11:28,276 --> 00:11:30,756 Speaker 3: the pool. But when I met him, like I said, 223 00:11:30,756 --> 00:11:33,756 Speaker 3: he was sixteen, I was fifteen. He didn't have any friends, 224 00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:36,076 Speaker 3: has been family. Band played almost three or four or 225 00:11:36,076 --> 00:11:38,996 Speaker 3: five nights a week. Weddings. Bar Mits was barn dancers. 226 00:11:39,036 --> 00:11:41,516 Speaker 3: Then they had a barn dance where you're playing rockabilly 227 00:11:41,516 --> 00:11:44,836 Speaker 3: and polkas and all that, and he's playing all well, 228 00:11:44,916 --> 00:11:46,076 Speaker 3: chet ackens kind of stuff. 229 00:11:46,316 --> 00:11:48,756 Speaker 2: So he's playing, he's playing bass, he's playing chords, and 230 00:11:48,756 --> 00:11:50,276 Speaker 2: he's playing a top line as well. 231 00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:53,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, playing chet akinstall. So you're playing. 232 00:12:04,876 --> 00:12:06,956 Speaker 2: So what was it about that? That captivating? 233 00:12:07,156 --> 00:12:09,436 Speaker 3: He's playing that way? And he teaches me to play 234 00:12:09,436 --> 00:12:11,836 Speaker 3: the way from every ched Atkins album. And he also 235 00:12:11,836 --> 00:12:14,236 Speaker 3: sing to me write good songs. 236 00:12:14,476 --> 00:12:17,236 Speaker 2: Okay, but he didn't write idiot. No, no, he didn't 237 00:12:17,236 --> 00:12:18,036 Speaker 2: write but you. 238 00:12:18,316 --> 00:12:29,036 Speaker 3: But he taught me all this stuff. So some time 239 00:12:29,116 --> 00:12:31,036 Speaker 3: he taught me to play on the inside for strings. 240 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:33,916 Speaker 3: Which are these? They some of the best on a guitar. 241 00:12:34,316 --> 00:12:45,836 Speaker 3: So what I did undone? I went she she didn't 242 00:12:45,876 --> 00:12:54,916 Speaker 3: know what she was. These are old Man minor seventh. 243 00:13:01,116 --> 00:13:03,676 Speaker 3: She found him instead of going there to go higher, 244 00:13:04,556 --> 00:13:07,316 Speaker 3: same chord but higher and it lifts the last part 245 00:13:07,316 --> 00:13:19,236 Speaker 3: of the verse. It was too late, dude, And I 246 00:13:19,236 --> 00:13:21,356 Speaker 3: didn't know what that was called. But I took it 247 00:13:21,356 --> 00:13:35,076 Speaker 3: from Malaguana was. I took that and put it there. 248 00:13:35,276 --> 00:13:42,116 Speaker 3: I'm doing Malaguania, and I got this song like I 249 00:13:42,156 --> 00:13:44,836 Speaker 3: heard it was done Bob Dylan song called Ballad and 250 00:13:44,916 --> 00:13:49,556 Speaker 3: d Bell and Plaine d Somewhere in twenty verses, he goes, 251 00:13:49,676 --> 00:13:52,916 Speaker 3: she came undone, I go Holy Cow, And I had 252 00:13:52,916 --> 00:13:55,796 Speaker 3: a girlfriend that had died from overdose of something. Somebody 253 00:13:55,796 --> 00:13:57,556 Speaker 3: put something in her drink. I think it was Ellis Dain. 254 00:13:57,636 --> 00:13:59,996 Speaker 3: She went to a coma. So I wrote about her, 255 00:14:00,476 --> 00:14:03,396 Speaker 3: and I had these these quotes, and Mickey Lenny bros Said, 256 00:14:03,436 --> 00:14:05,716 Speaker 3: get the Mickey Baker Jazz Guitar Book. It was from 257 00:14:05,716 --> 00:14:07,636 Speaker 3: Mickey and Sylvia. If you don't love a strong Yeah, 258 00:14:08,276 --> 00:14:10,956 Speaker 3: Mickey Baker in changed my life, him and Lenny bro 259 00:14:11,956 --> 00:14:17,156 Speaker 3: to get instead of playing blues like this seventh ninth, Yeah, 260 00:14:17,916 --> 00:14:33,316 Speaker 3: Mickey Baker's every downstroke is a different court. And I 261 00:14:33,356 --> 00:14:35,076 Speaker 3: want to do that. I want and you don't do 262 00:14:35,076 --> 00:14:38,556 Speaker 3: downstairs because you're playing like this, you're playing the middle 263 00:14:39,076 --> 00:14:41,436 Speaker 3: for inside, for strings, and you're playing your thumb. So 264 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:45,956 Speaker 3: when I did, Lenny Borough showed me two endings that 265 00:14:46,076 --> 00:14:48,716 Speaker 3: are jazz endings. They're called codas right, So the song 266 00:14:48,836 --> 00:14:54,196 Speaker 3: is called mean to Me. He goes me to me, 267 00:14:54,476 --> 00:15:07,756 Speaker 3: to me, can't you see the ending goes, I lower 268 00:15:07,756 --> 00:15:11,796 Speaker 3: it once and I go, oh, every day is in 269 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:14,716 Speaker 3: and the string you got to write it to the 270 00:15:14,836 --> 00:15:18,716 Speaker 3: end of the line. Just take that ending and make 271 00:15:18,796 --> 00:15:21,276 Speaker 3: it my beginning. And it becomes looking out for number one. 272 00:15:21,356 --> 00:15:23,636 Speaker 3: And the other part is from Ray Charles a song 273 00:15:23,676 --> 00:15:26,236 Speaker 3: of this Little Girl of Mine that went, h this 274 00:15:26,396 --> 00:15:33,916 Speaker 3: little girl of mine. But he's doing it on piano. 275 00:15:34,316 --> 00:15:35,676 Speaker 3: So I think that and put on trying to go. 276 00:15:35,876 --> 00:15:36,796 Speaker 3: And I found. 277 00:15:36,516 --> 00:15:40,436 Speaker 4: Out every trick in the book, and that there's only 278 00:15:40,596 --> 00:15:42,876 Speaker 4: one way to get things done. 279 00:15:42,996 --> 00:15:47,156 Speaker 3: I found out the only way to the top looking 280 00:15:47,156 --> 00:15:50,676 Speaker 3: at the phone number. What I mean, you keep looking 281 00:15:50,796 --> 00:15:52,036 Speaker 3: the phone number? 282 00:15:56,156 --> 00:15:56,316 Speaker 4: Right? 283 00:15:57,036 --> 00:16:00,036 Speaker 3: So I put all that together, and it's strange to 284 00:16:00,076 --> 00:16:02,516 Speaker 3: put the two endings together. And when I played it 285 00:16:02,516 --> 00:16:04,556 Speaker 3: for Burton Comings and said, I've written the follow up 286 00:16:04,556 --> 00:16:06,836 Speaker 3: to undone, which I wrote alone, everybody's sing writing another 287 00:16:06,916 --> 00:16:08,996 Speaker 3: Chaz song. You just can't pull them out of the 288 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:10,636 Speaker 3: I said, I put these two any sing and I 289 00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:13,716 Speaker 3: played and he said, oh, that that's brilliant. It's phenomenal. 290 00:16:14,036 --> 00:16:16,356 Speaker 2: And then didn't didn't Lenny bro say to you, won't 291 00:16:16,396 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 2: people think the song's over because you're playing the because 292 00:16:18,996 --> 00:16:21,836 Speaker 2: you're playing the turnaround. Yeah, yeah, oh my god. 293 00:16:21,756 --> 00:16:24,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, I said, guess what, Lenny, I wrote a song. 294 00:16:24,276 --> 00:16:26,956 Speaker 3: I start with that coder. You taught me the song's over. 295 00:16:27,036 --> 00:16:29,036 Speaker 3: I said, no, no, I repeat, I repeat, I repeat it, 296 00:16:29,156 --> 00:16:30,596 Speaker 3: and I put this in. I put that in it 297 00:16:30,596 --> 00:16:33,036 Speaker 3: and stuff and he he taught me, and he said, 298 00:16:33,356 --> 00:16:36,036 Speaker 3: you can put anything you want together. You just need 299 00:16:36,076 --> 00:16:38,476 Speaker 3: a passing note. So, I mean, I don't even know 300 00:16:38,516 --> 00:16:39,196 Speaker 3: what key this is in. 301 00:16:44,156 --> 00:16:46,516 Speaker 2: You don't know now what key that's in. You don't 302 00:16:46,516 --> 00:16:47,796 Speaker 2: even know now what key that's in. 303 00:16:49,436 --> 00:16:54,836 Speaker 3: You tell me what key it's in. I don't know. Basically, 304 00:16:54,916 --> 00:16:57,116 Speaker 3: it's an f right. That's what means to me is 305 00:16:57,556 --> 00:16:59,636 Speaker 3: I've lowered mine te right, So I've got it's gone 306 00:16:59,636 --> 00:17:00,716 Speaker 3: on after tone. 307 00:17:00,596 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, after quick break. 308 00:17:02,476 --> 00:17:04,396 Speaker 1: Will be back with more from Randy Bachman. 309 00:17:08,636 --> 00:17:09,036 Speaker 3: We're back. 310 00:17:09,236 --> 00:17:10,916 Speaker 1: Bruce had them and Randy Bachman. 311 00:17:11,876 --> 00:17:14,836 Speaker 2: How did you learn from those Mickey Baker books, because 312 00:17:14,876 --> 00:17:17,796 Speaker 2: that's pretty heavy music theory, the Mickey Baker stuff. 313 00:17:18,476 --> 00:17:23,596 Speaker 3: Little x's instead of five lines EGBDF, the ad GB, 314 00:17:23,796 --> 00:17:26,156 Speaker 3: little x's the word to put your fingers. It was 315 00:17:26,196 --> 00:17:29,196 Speaker 3: the first book. I didn't know what tablature was. Yes, Like, 316 00:17:29,276 --> 00:17:33,596 Speaker 3: to me, music is stupid okay, especially when you get 317 00:17:33,636 --> 00:17:36,116 Speaker 3: to the bass cleft and it's different on a piano. 318 00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:38,956 Speaker 3: That's what I thought about playing violin. Why is the 319 00:17:38,996 --> 00:17:41,716 Speaker 3: cello music just like mine? We're playing the same line 320 00:17:41,756 --> 00:17:45,476 Speaker 3: hisre's one whole line below. And they explained to me, well, 321 00:17:45,476 --> 00:17:47,756 Speaker 3: when you do the staff and another staff, and when 322 00:17:47,756 --> 00:17:50,556 Speaker 3: you're symphony director down there as all the guys, by 323 00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:53,556 Speaker 3: the time they get to the top, your EGBDF bass 324 00:17:53,636 --> 00:17:55,836 Speaker 3: is one one below this. 325 00:17:56,316 --> 00:17:56,476 Speaker 5: Yeah. 326 00:17:56,996 --> 00:17:59,796 Speaker 3: See, whatever you know you're getting me, I'll mixed up 327 00:17:59,836 --> 00:18:04,196 Speaker 3: in anyways, I just learned the wonderful thing about I 328 00:18:04,236 --> 00:18:06,956 Speaker 3: have a phonographic memory as a kid. I hear it once, 329 00:18:07,116 --> 00:18:09,756 Speaker 3: I know it in my head just to figure out 330 00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:25,836 Speaker 3: it's Chuck Berry. That kind of stuff. And every time 331 00:18:25,836 --> 00:18:28,716 Speaker 3: I was going to produce an album I produced bto 332 00:18:28,756 --> 00:18:31,396 Speaker 3: I produced a man called Trooper. I would listen to 333 00:18:31,436 --> 00:18:34,636 Speaker 3: a dozen Berries, the Chuck Berry Greatest Hits, phenomenal album 334 00:18:35,076 --> 00:18:38,276 Speaker 3: who took twelve bar blues and made every song a 335 00:18:38,436 --> 00:18:42,516 Speaker 3: story of Johnny be Good or maybe Lean or incredible 336 00:18:42,756 --> 00:18:47,036 Speaker 3: lyrics that this guy had over twelve bar blue songs, 337 00:18:47,796 --> 00:18:50,276 Speaker 3: rock and roll music, roll over Beethoven. And the guy 338 00:18:50,636 --> 00:18:54,116 Speaker 3: was a poet of unprecedented rock and roll lyrics. I 339 00:18:54,116 --> 00:18:57,036 Speaker 3: mean really compared to Shoe by Dewbey, you know, and 340 00:18:57,036 --> 00:18:59,596 Speaker 3: the boom and get a job. He Chuck Berry wrote 341 00:18:59,636 --> 00:19:04,676 Speaker 3: like Shakespeare and obviously affected the Beatles. And besides a 342 00:19:04,716 --> 00:19:07,356 Speaker 3: dozen berries, which I would get the simplicity of an 343 00:19:07,396 --> 00:19:11,076 Speaker 3: intro of guitar, I would play a revolver or rubber 344 00:19:11,156 --> 00:19:15,996 Speaker 3: soul to get what the Beatles did with four guys 345 00:19:16,036 --> 00:19:19,116 Speaker 3: to sound like six guys. And I'm I'm dealing with Bto, 346 00:19:19,156 --> 00:19:21,596 Speaker 3: which are three or four guys try to sound like six. 347 00:19:21,636 --> 00:19:24,436 Speaker 3: So every time I produced a BTO album, I made 348 00:19:24,436 --> 00:19:26,876 Speaker 3: sure that in the verses we had a cow bell 349 00:19:27,156 --> 00:19:31,156 Speaker 3: muted or in the course or we had a shaker going. 350 00:19:31,196 --> 00:19:33,636 Speaker 3: So if we listened to the Beatles behind every section, 351 00:19:33,756 --> 00:19:37,036 Speaker 3: the middle eight, the versus the intro, there's a different 352 00:19:37,036 --> 00:19:40,876 Speaker 3: percussion thing, and a lot of times they're clapping, and 353 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 3: I would take the Beatles thing like there's a song 354 00:19:43,276 --> 00:19:49,916 Speaker 3: called Homie Tight that goes, oh meat tight, dude, it's 355 00:19:49,956 --> 00:19:55,196 Speaker 3: been a hardy, same thing, taking care of bins, same 356 00:19:55,236 --> 00:20:00,596 Speaker 3: clapping and under a ringo playing bongos. Just let it ride, goodbye. 357 00:20:00,956 --> 00:20:03,276 Speaker 3: It's got the bongos. We didn't have bongos. We used 358 00:20:03,276 --> 00:20:06,476 Speaker 3: the milk jug emptied one gallon milk job filled with paper. 359 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:08,196 Speaker 3: My brother put it between his legs and did the 360 00:20:08,196 --> 00:20:11,076 Speaker 3: gallop on it. So we're doing all these things for 361 00:20:11,236 --> 00:20:15,196 Speaker 3: bto to sound like more than four guys on a record, 362 00:20:15,476 --> 00:20:17,596 Speaker 3: and it's so easy, too alive. You just crank up 363 00:20:17,636 --> 00:20:18,596 Speaker 3: loud and you played louder. 364 00:20:18,916 --> 00:20:22,436 Speaker 2: It's interesting you wrote about that because I was listening 365 00:20:22,796 --> 00:20:24,636 Speaker 2: to some beatles the other day and I thought I 366 00:20:24,676 --> 00:20:28,556 Speaker 2: heard some little like a little gallop under it all, 367 00:20:28,556 --> 00:20:30,036 Speaker 2: and I thought, well, was that in the music I 368 00:20:30,076 --> 00:20:30,596 Speaker 2: don't but. 369 00:20:30,596 --> 00:20:33,156 Speaker 3: Listen to Hard when I'm home. The gallup stops when 370 00:20:33,196 --> 00:20:36,396 Speaker 3: I'm home, clank clank, clubo, everything, and that drives that 371 00:20:36,636 --> 00:20:40,036 Speaker 3: seem homely feeling only tied. It's been a they get 372 00:20:40,076 --> 00:20:42,116 Speaker 3: back to hard and you get into the groove again. 373 00:20:42,476 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 3: So their percussion and the shakers and ringo played a 374 00:20:45,596 --> 00:20:48,516 Speaker 3: lot of claps claves. But he didn't do it one 375 00:20:48,556 --> 00:20:50,956 Speaker 3: and three, just every once in a while, every fourth 376 00:20:50,956 --> 00:20:55,756 Speaker 3: beat or third beat, like and I Love Her. He 377 00:20:55,796 --> 00:21:01,116 Speaker 3: didn't go down like the Latin thing Dad, click click 378 00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:04,196 Speaker 3: click every other time. 379 00:21:04,356 --> 00:21:05,876 Speaker 2: Now when you when you played with him. Did you 380 00:21:05,916 --> 00:21:07,316 Speaker 2: ask him about things like that? 381 00:21:07,596 --> 00:21:09,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the guy who said it's been hard 382 00:21:09,716 --> 00:21:12,396 Speaker 3: to his ninety I love this check eight days a week. 383 00:21:12,756 --> 00:21:15,716 Speaker 3: John gives him no credit. I mean, if somebody gives 384 00:21:15,756 --> 00:21:17,556 Speaker 3: me a title, I give them ten percent of the song. 385 00:21:17,596 --> 00:21:19,596 Speaker 3: I mean it inspires your hook, it's your course. 386 00:21:19,636 --> 00:21:22,636 Speaker 2: Basically good news for Bob Dylan, who's still looking for 387 00:21:22,676 --> 00:21:23,636 Speaker 2: that check for undone. 388 00:21:23,676 --> 00:21:25,596 Speaker 3: By the way, you have my check for undone. 389 00:21:25,676 --> 00:21:27,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what pissed me off? 390 00:21:27,716 --> 00:21:29,956 Speaker 3: As Wally Lyme wrote a book called She's Coming Done, 391 00:21:30,076 --> 00:21:31,556 Speaker 3: which Oprah had in her book Club with the Week 392 00:21:31,556 --> 00:21:34,116 Speaker 3: and sold millions of copies, and he thank Burton Cummings 393 00:21:34,116 --> 00:21:36,716 Speaker 3: in the intro, not me. I wrote it all by myself. 394 00:21:36,716 --> 00:21:37,396 Speaker 2: Oh you're kidding. 395 00:21:37,556 --> 00:21:40,596 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I said, Wally Lime letter going, but I 396 00:21:40,676 --> 00:21:41,756 Speaker 3: never got a reply back. 397 00:21:43,476 --> 00:21:45,436 Speaker 2: I want to ask you more about writing, but you're 398 00:21:45,436 --> 00:21:48,716 Speaker 2: talking so much about guitar. And there is something about 399 00:21:48,756 --> 00:21:52,276 Speaker 2: your guitar playing which has always been noticeable for me, 400 00:21:52,916 --> 00:21:56,876 Speaker 2: which is how melodic your solos are. They're not solos 401 00:21:56,916 --> 00:21:59,756 Speaker 2: the way we think of do you think it's violin? 402 00:22:00,676 --> 00:22:03,796 Speaker 2: They're very they're almost I'm not saying they're sing songy, 403 00:22:03,836 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 2: but I could, even now it's been years and years, 404 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:12,036 Speaker 2: I could sing the solo from No Time or American Woman, 405 00:22:12,876 --> 00:22:13,636 Speaker 2: What do you Well? 406 00:22:13,636 --> 00:22:18,276 Speaker 3: That's what Lenny bro taught me. Sing it. Sing your 407 00:22:18,316 --> 00:22:22,676 Speaker 3: solo in your head first. Don't think of a blues 408 00:22:22,756 --> 00:22:25,116 Speaker 3: run or a Les Paul lick or Chad akinlick and 409 00:22:25,156 --> 00:22:28,356 Speaker 3: piecing it together like a jigsaw puzzle. Play your song 410 00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:33,596 Speaker 3: in your head. Sing a solo. I'm gonna go. I'm 411 00:22:33,756 --> 00:22:42,556 Speaker 3: doing right now, Just go up. That becomes your solo. 412 00:22:46,796 --> 00:22:49,676 Speaker 3: So we're doing any any solo that I've got, like 413 00:22:49,756 --> 00:23:02,956 Speaker 3: let it Ride, Mickey Baker. Guys have heard that solo. 414 00:23:03,036 --> 00:23:05,796 Speaker 3: How could you play those notes in a rock and 415 00:23:05,916 --> 00:23:12,956 Speaker 3: roll song? Where you're going? That's so jazzy, but it's 416 00:23:12,996 --> 00:23:15,636 Speaker 3: so passing that when I get to that, it's a relief. 417 00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:26,916 Speaker 3: That's all jazz stuff like Howard Roberts, but it's in 418 00:23:32,636 --> 00:23:47,556 Speaker 3: there's a there's that Cordigan and I got that from 419 00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:51,756 Speaker 3: Anton Divorcedhack Piano Concerto and t because I read about 420 00:23:51,796 --> 00:23:56,636 Speaker 3: John Lennon listening to classical music, Stockhausen and things like that, 421 00:23:56,916 --> 00:24:00,436 Speaker 3: and I can't afford anything right. Most of your life 422 00:24:00,476 --> 00:24:03,996 Speaker 3: you're broke and Philip Glass. So I have a friend 423 00:24:04,036 --> 00:24:05,596 Speaker 3: that has Philip Glass and listen to it and he's 424 00:24:05,636 --> 00:24:08,316 Speaker 3: smashing a piano with the sledgehammers. I can't do this, 425 00:24:08,636 --> 00:24:11,236 Speaker 3: and I can stockhausing thing and I can't even understand it. 426 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:13,596 Speaker 3: And I go into Crass, which is a cheap five 427 00:24:13,636 --> 00:24:17,196 Speaker 3: and dime store. Oh I remembers they turned into Kmart 428 00:24:17,276 --> 00:24:20,476 Speaker 3: right yeah, and by a classical album for dollar forty 429 00:24:20,556 --> 00:24:23,756 Speaker 3: nine and to Divora Piano concertoy the whole side and 430 00:24:23,796 --> 00:24:27,316 Speaker 3: the find one is the piano concerto very boring, but 431 00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:45,116 Speaker 3: in the ending it goes. So I go on to 432 00:24:45,156 --> 00:25:03,236 Speaker 3: make chords out of that. Would you medd it ride? 433 00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:07,956 Speaker 2: Okay? He's waiting for his check too, I think, yeah, yeah, 434 00:25:07,996 --> 00:25:08,396 Speaker 2: that's great. 435 00:25:08,596 --> 00:25:10,836 Speaker 3: And the Doobie. I was writing that with Fred Turner 436 00:25:10,836 --> 00:25:14,076 Speaker 3: at the ed Mardi Gras in New Orleans and I'm 437 00:25:14,116 --> 00:25:16,116 Speaker 3: showing it to Fred. I got these cords, Fred, And 438 00:25:16,156 --> 00:25:17,876 Speaker 3: we just heard a trucker say, no big deal, Bud, 439 00:25:17,956 --> 00:25:20,116 Speaker 3: he let it ride. He'd cut us off and with 440 00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:22,116 Speaker 3: an accent the highway and we're crossing this guy and 441 00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:24,196 Speaker 3: he says, no big deal, just let it ride. So 442 00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:26,076 Speaker 3: what does that mean? Fred, it's like mean chill out 443 00:25:26,076 --> 00:25:28,236 Speaker 3: in the nineteen seventy two. We don't need trucker lingo. 444 00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:30,356 Speaker 3: And he said, oh, it's just a chill out thing. 445 00:25:30,476 --> 00:25:38,276 Speaker 3: So I'm sure and the Doobie Brothers get this lolong 446 00:25:38,316 --> 00:25:42,916 Speaker 3: train running. But I've already done showing it to Fred, 447 00:25:42,916 --> 00:25:47,036 Speaker 3: and Patrick's watching me playing. So Tom Johnson and we 448 00:25:47,156 --> 00:25:50,356 Speaker 3: both got the same ant Undervorjak thing. 449 00:25:50,436 --> 00:25:53,036 Speaker 2: You created two hits from one. 450 00:25:53,956 --> 00:25:56,676 Speaker 3: We all realized that there's a pool of things you 451 00:25:56,796 --> 00:26:00,516 Speaker 3: share they don't necessarily need to pay for, but if 452 00:26:00,556 --> 00:26:03,516 Speaker 3: there's things you directly steal, you pay. 453 00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:05,636 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 454 00:26:06,196 --> 00:26:08,596 Speaker 3: I remember talking to Gordon Lightfoot and I said, how 455 00:26:08,636 --> 00:26:10,076 Speaker 3: do you like song? He said, what do you mean 456 00:26:10,116 --> 00:26:12,676 Speaker 3: it said, Whitney Houston, what do you mean? I said, 457 00:26:16,076 --> 00:26:18,436 Speaker 3: I just can't take it. That's from if you could 458 00:26:18,436 --> 00:26:22,236 Speaker 3: read my mind? Girl. Really he called the lawyer. He 459 00:26:22,316 --> 00:26:24,676 Speaker 3: go to check for a couple of hundred grand from 460 00:26:24,676 --> 00:26:26,476 Speaker 3: Michael whoever's name was, who wrote. 461 00:26:27,956 --> 00:26:32,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, good for him. Yeah did you remain friends 462 00:26:32,076 --> 00:26:34,916 Speaker 2: with him? You saw him very early in life Lightfoot? Yeah, 463 00:26:35,116 --> 00:26:38,636 Speaker 2: you guys wrote you wrote a song about Gordon before 464 00:26:38,716 --> 00:26:39,516 Speaker 2: he was a big. 465 00:26:40,036 --> 00:26:43,436 Speaker 3: Just joined our band and because we had a television 466 00:26:43,516 --> 00:26:48,796 Speaker 3: show national like American Band then right across Canada that 467 00:26:48,916 --> 00:26:53,396 Speaker 3: Monday was from Halifax, who that had add Murray on it. 468 00:26:53,436 --> 00:26:57,636 Speaker 3: Tuesday was Ottawa or Montreal. Wednesday was Toronto. Bands like 469 00:26:58,636 --> 00:27:01,996 Speaker 3: Who became David Clayton Thomas. The host was Alex Trebek. 470 00:27:02,716 --> 00:27:06,716 Speaker 3: Right from from Jeopardy Winnipeg was Us Calgary, Mpton in 471 00:27:06,756 --> 00:27:09,836 Speaker 3: BC with band that became The Collectors are Chillawa. We're 472 00:27:09,876 --> 00:27:11,716 Speaker 3: still around the guys that were on this show, but 473 00:27:11,756 --> 00:27:13,716 Speaker 3: it was on every single week for two years, so 474 00:27:13,756 --> 00:27:16,756 Speaker 3: everybody in Canada would see the guests who every Thursday 475 00:27:17,036 --> 00:27:18,516 Speaker 3: and we get to do the hit Preided and after 476 00:27:18,556 --> 00:27:20,956 Speaker 3: a while, the hit Preid then lasted six months. Now 477 00:27:20,996 --> 00:27:23,796 Speaker 3: it last six weeks. So we'd be repeating songs. So 478 00:27:23,836 --> 00:27:26,116 Speaker 3: the producer came to write your own songs and if 479 00:27:26,156 --> 00:27:29,356 Speaker 3: they're good enough, I'll put you in between the Stones 480 00:27:29,396 --> 00:27:31,076 Speaker 3: and the Beach Boys. But it's got to be good enough. 481 00:27:31,116 --> 00:27:33,156 Speaker 3: So Britain and I start writing songs. We do a 482 00:27:33,196 --> 00:27:35,636 Speaker 3: tour and we go to Montreal and Lightfoot's playing in 483 00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:38,476 Speaker 3: a little nightclub there and we go and see when 484 00:27:38,476 --> 00:27:40,076 Speaker 3: we know each other because we all would hang out 485 00:27:40,076 --> 00:27:43,236 Speaker 3: at the riverboat where, which is manager owned in the 486 00:27:43,316 --> 00:27:45,876 Speaker 3: village in downtown Toronto, and we go and see him 487 00:27:45,876 --> 00:27:51,236 Speaker 3: and he does three hours painting pictures of tiger lilies 488 00:27:51,276 --> 00:27:55,676 Speaker 3: and leaving on a jetplane kind of thing, and incredible 489 00:27:55,676 --> 00:27:58,916 Speaker 3: early morning rain and all these songs of his and 490 00:27:58,996 --> 00:28:01,996 Speaker 3: we sat there stunned and went to meet him and 491 00:28:02,156 --> 00:28:05,516 Speaker 3: how do you write songs? And he said do you? 492 00:28:05,516 --> 00:28:08,636 Speaker 3: You have to have a gift. And I had the 493 00:28:08,636 --> 00:28:11,956 Speaker 3: gift as a child, and so did Burton Cummings. And 494 00:28:12,036 --> 00:28:14,316 Speaker 3: I know a lot of people that don't. And I 495 00:28:14,316 --> 00:28:17,876 Speaker 3: only found out they don't because I went through several 496 00:28:19,996 --> 00:28:22,756 Speaker 3: counseling sessions with my family that was getting divorced, Me 497 00:28:22,796 --> 00:28:25,996 Speaker 3: and Tell and my other kids. And after sitting there 498 00:28:26,036 --> 00:28:28,636 Speaker 3: for weeks and weeks, you every week for years and 499 00:28:28,716 --> 00:28:30,876 Speaker 3: years with your ex wife, trying to get back together 500 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,676 Speaker 3: and work out your differences and stuff. And the doctor 501 00:28:33,756 --> 00:28:37,836 Speaker 3: kept saying to me, what are your feelings? I forget 502 00:28:37,876 --> 00:28:41,876 Speaker 3: my feelings. I'm pissed on you know whatever. Finally said, 503 00:28:42,476 --> 00:28:46,396 Speaker 3: what's in your head right now? Because I'm not sharing anyone. 504 00:28:46,516 --> 00:28:49,156 Speaker 3: I said, well, besides the music, I'm a little angry. 505 00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:52,636 Speaker 3: What music We'll have music in my head? What kind 506 00:28:52,636 --> 00:28:54,036 Speaker 3: of music? Well, ever since I was born, I have 507 00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:56,156 Speaker 3: music in my head. What do you mean? Said, there's 508 00:28:56,236 --> 00:28:59,076 Speaker 3: music in my head and I play it. And if 509 00:28:59,076 --> 00:29:00,596 Speaker 3: somebody said do you make it up? I say, I 510 00:29:00,636 --> 00:29:02,756 Speaker 3: think so. But if they say they heard it somewhere, 511 00:29:02,836 --> 00:29:05,236 Speaker 3: then it's from somewhere else. That's how I write songs, 512 00:29:05,316 --> 00:29:07,756 Speaker 3: or in my head. I craft them and moved them 513 00:29:07,756 --> 00:29:10,636 Speaker 3: and switched them around. And he said, I hear nothing, 514 00:29:10,756 --> 00:29:12,436 Speaker 3: and I said, well, I really feel sorry for you. 515 00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:15,356 Speaker 3: And this guy doctor goes, WHOA, He's like the shrink, 516 00:29:15,596 --> 00:29:17,796 Speaker 3: the shrink of all times. Right, nothing in his hit 517 00:29:17,876 --> 00:29:20,356 Speaker 3: His head is blank. Yeah, And I find people that 518 00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:23,796 Speaker 3: are musical. Even right now, the song is going in 519 00:29:23,796 --> 00:29:27,196 Speaker 3: my head. I have a soundtrack. I'm never alone. I'm 520 00:29:28,156 --> 00:29:30,916 Speaker 3: you can lock people with solitary. I enjoy it. Nobody's 521 00:29:31,116 --> 00:29:34,236 Speaker 3: interrupting by my broadcast. That's in my head and it's 522 00:29:34,276 --> 00:29:36,036 Speaker 3: old songs and it's new songs, and I don't know 523 00:29:36,036 --> 00:29:37,676 Speaker 3: what it is. It's just there. 524 00:29:38,276 --> 00:29:42,436 Speaker 2: It's just a stream. And you, yeah, you're handed every 525 00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:43,916 Speaker 2: once in a while and pull something out. 526 00:29:44,076 --> 00:29:47,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, after one last quick break, we'll be back with 527 00:29:47,516 --> 00:29:55,036 Speaker 1: the rest of Bruce Headlin's conversation with Randy Bachman. We're 528 00:29:55,076 --> 00:29:57,156 Speaker 1: back with Bruce Headlam and Randy Bachman. 529 00:29:58,116 --> 00:30:01,596 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about I think most people think that 530 00:30:01,836 --> 00:30:04,556 Speaker 2: Burton Cummings came up with these eyes because he was 531 00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:08,556 Speaker 2: the piano player. But as you, yeah, tell me about that. 532 00:30:10,036 --> 00:30:14,036 Speaker 3: Well, my mother and my father was German, my mother 533 00:30:14,116 --> 00:30:20,836 Speaker 3: was Ukrainian. These people partied. They had house parties, drinking 534 00:30:21,156 --> 00:30:22,996 Speaker 3: like mad and then in the middle they would clear 535 00:30:23,036 --> 00:30:25,396 Speaker 3: the chairs and do the cola maker to the Russian kick, 536 00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:28,076 Speaker 3: the guys jumping in the air and they went crazy. 537 00:30:28,116 --> 00:30:31,516 Speaker 3: They were like real classacks. And so my mother beside 538 00:30:31,516 --> 00:30:34,676 Speaker 3: the Glasgow violin, she made me watch every Sunday night 539 00:30:35,076 --> 00:30:38,476 Speaker 3: Don Messrs Jubilee, which was from Halifax, Newfoundland, where they 540 00:30:38,516 --> 00:30:41,236 Speaker 3: played Celtic and fiddle music, jigs and reels and stuff 541 00:30:41,236 --> 00:30:42,876 Speaker 3: like that. And she wanted so I would pick it 542 00:30:42,916 --> 00:30:46,356 Speaker 3: up and I'd play. They would all do bulcus to it. 543 00:30:47,036 --> 00:30:49,116 Speaker 3: And my brother was younger than me, the brother who 544 00:30:49,116 --> 00:30:51,716 Speaker 3: started who I wrote, ain't see nothing yet, for I 545 00:30:51,956 --> 00:30:56,076 Speaker 3: was bought the alphabate polka instrument and accordion. He's five 546 00:30:56,156 --> 00:30:59,636 Speaker 3: years old. I'm seven. You get an accordion. You can't 547 00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:01,876 Speaker 3: play it. They strap it to you can't see it. 548 00:31:02,436 --> 00:31:04,836 Speaker 3: This finger has to play notes, this hand has to 549 00:31:04,836 --> 00:31:06,716 Speaker 3: pump it, and these fingers have to go upah on 550 00:31:06,756 --> 00:31:08,916 Speaker 3: these little buttons. And we would be sent to our 551 00:31:08,916 --> 00:31:12,916 Speaker 3: bed driam to practice. And he cries, I can't do this. 552 00:31:12,956 --> 00:31:15,516 Speaker 3: I say, okay, turn it sideways and I'll put He 553 00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:20,196 Speaker 3: turned it sideways and I pulled this, and he pulled this. 554 00:31:20,596 --> 00:31:22,316 Speaker 3: I sat there and I played in the KYFC. I 555 00:31:22,356 --> 00:31:26,396 Speaker 3: figured out, well, see much different than guitar or violin, 556 00:31:26,916 --> 00:31:28,356 Speaker 3: told me so do don't you can just sit I 557 00:31:28,356 --> 00:31:30,116 Speaker 3: can play anything on a piano in the KYFC, all 558 00:31:30,156 --> 00:31:34,156 Speaker 3: evenly spaced. I get him to pump the coordinate and 559 00:31:34,196 --> 00:31:36,116 Speaker 3: sit there and my mother would think he was practicing. 560 00:31:36,436 --> 00:31:39,756 Speaker 3: So this is my formal training on a keyboard. So Britain, 561 00:31:39,796 --> 00:31:41,996 Speaker 3: Kempany just joined the guests who we're in Regina for 562 00:31:42,076 --> 00:31:44,196 Speaker 3: this summer doing CAGs to get out of winn Bay 563 00:31:44,236 --> 00:31:46,556 Speaker 3: because we he had broken up the devrons to join 564 00:31:46,636 --> 00:31:48,996 Speaker 3: me to join the guests who and all the fans 565 00:31:48,996 --> 00:31:52,596 Speaker 3: were upset. So we have a night off in Regina, Saskatchewan, 566 00:31:52,956 --> 00:31:55,876 Speaker 3: and the Queen, the new Queen, the new female Gordon 567 00:31:55,996 --> 00:31:58,716 Speaker 3: Lightfoot is playing in Regina at the four D the 568 00:31:58,756 --> 00:32:02,996 Speaker 3: Fourth Dimension Coffeehouse. Joni Mitchell, Jony and Chuck Mitchell. She 569 00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:07,836 Speaker 3: just Joni Anderson just married Chuck Mitchell. And so the 570 00:32:07,916 --> 00:32:10,316 Speaker 3: sellout we go to see her. We know the promoter. 571 00:32:10,356 --> 00:32:13,236 Speaker 3: It's a little coffee one hundred and twenty people. There's 572 00:32:13,276 --> 00:32:16,116 Speaker 3: a table that says reserved. The place is full. So 573 00:32:16,196 --> 00:32:18,796 Speaker 3: I'm there with the band and in walks's two really 574 00:32:18,796 --> 00:32:22,516 Speaker 3: good looking chicks, a blonde and a brunette. And I go, oh, 575 00:32:22,596 --> 00:32:24,916 Speaker 3: my gosh, that happens to the most guys you see 576 00:32:24,916 --> 00:32:29,316 Speaker 3: a woman. It's like wow, I said my road manager. 577 00:32:29,316 --> 00:32:30,556 Speaker 3: I don't know how to pick up a check like 578 00:32:30,556 --> 00:32:32,676 Speaker 3: I had three brothers. And no, there's no females in 579 00:32:32,716 --> 00:32:36,076 Speaker 3: the back of front. All boys. My cousins are all boys. Everybody. 580 00:32:36,236 --> 00:32:39,516 Speaker 2: Some of those Russian dances dance moves help, yes. 581 00:32:39,996 --> 00:32:41,196 Speaker 3: And so I said, can you go and talk to 582 00:32:41,236 --> 00:32:43,916 Speaker 3: those two chicks, and if you get lucky called me over. 583 00:32:44,036 --> 00:32:46,756 Speaker 3: Don't talk to the brunette, just talk to the blonde. 584 00:32:46,956 --> 00:32:49,956 Speaker 3: We find out later they're sisters. He calls me over. 585 00:32:50,396 --> 00:32:52,276 Speaker 3: I take them home, I asked the brunette for a date. 586 00:32:52,316 --> 00:32:54,836 Speaker 3: The next night, I go to her house. Rushed into 587 00:32:54,836 --> 00:32:58,116 Speaker 3: the house. There's a potted pit plant, a piano and 588 00:32:58,156 --> 00:33:01,156 Speaker 3: a couch, no radio, no TV. And I'm waiting and waiting. 589 00:33:01,236 --> 00:33:03,036 Speaker 3: She's late. I'm there early for the date. She's late. 590 00:33:03,076 --> 00:33:05,156 Speaker 3: She's late. She's late. I go over to the piano 591 00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:08,996 Speaker 3: and I go boom boom, my training in the KEYFC 592 00:33:09,276 --> 00:33:13,236 Speaker 3: on the accordion, boom boom, and I started to sing 593 00:33:13,636 --> 00:33:17,356 Speaker 3: these Arms Long to hold You? When are you coming down? 594 00:33:17,636 --> 00:33:19,516 Speaker 3: We've missed the beginning of the movie. It is supposed 595 00:33:19,516 --> 00:33:21,476 Speaker 3: to start at seven, and I'm singing this stupid song, 596 00:33:22,156 --> 00:33:26,996 Speaker 3: these Arms Long to hold You. I forget about that Burton. 597 00:33:27,036 --> 00:33:28,476 Speaker 3: I sit down to write some songs and say, here's 598 00:33:28,516 --> 00:33:31,796 Speaker 3: the beginning of a song. It's called these Arms. He goes, well, 599 00:33:31,796 --> 00:33:34,516 Speaker 3: that doesn't go anywhere. Why don't we call it these eyes? 600 00:33:35,076 --> 00:33:37,596 Speaker 3: These eyes cr every night, These arms long to hold you. 601 00:33:37,996 --> 00:33:42,756 Speaker 3: And the minute he said that, boom and outcomes by 602 00:33:42,756 --> 00:33:48,196 Speaker 3: birth backrack training. Because we before Bertain was in the band, 603 00:33:48,196 --> 00:33:50,556 Speaker 3: we had shaken over a big hit sixty four to 604 00:33:50,556 --> 00:33:53,276 Speaker 3: sixty five. Got invited to New York to the Kingsman 605 00:33:53,356 --> 00:33:57,076 Speaker 3: Louis Lewis tour. We were on Scepter Records owned by 606 00:33:57,116 --> 00:34:01,916 Speaker 3: Florence Greenberg, who had Dion Warwick, Chuck Jackson, the Cherrell's. 607 00:34:01,996 --> 00:34:05,076 Speaker 3: She wrote Soldier Boy for the Cherells. Her songwriters were 608 00:34:05,076 --> 00:34:07,036 Speaker 3: Backcarck and David. They came and played songs just like 609 00:34:07,076 --> 00:34:10,596 Speaker 3: this in the studio for Don Warwick every single day. 610 00:34:10,756 --> 00:34:12,756 Speaker 3: I mean I heard San Jose and do you know 611 00:34:13,716 --> 00:34:16,556 Speaker 3: raw with Burton with Burt background and Hal David singing 612 00:34:16,556 --> 00:34:22,156 Speaker 3: the stuff Bert Bert Backer all these chords. I also 613 00:34:22,156 --> 00:34:24,996 Speaker 3: found out that was the Zombies because the Dombies did 614 00:34:24,996 --> 00:34:28,436 Speaker 3: it tour with Dean Worick and Rod Arg was sitting 615 00:34:28,436 --> 00:34:31,156 Speaker 3: and listened to Bert Bacherak songs. So if you listen 616 00:34:31,196 --> 00:34:43,516 Speaker 3: to the Zombies, tell her no, it's just like Undone. 617 00:34:44,396 --> 00:34:49,356 Speaker 3: She's coming on the same chords, but different era. So 618 00:34:49,796 --> 00:34:51,956 Speaker 3: when you listen to These Eyes, it sounds like a 619 00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:54,756 Speaker 3: normal pop song, like three or four songs. I think 620 00:34:54,796 --> 00:35:00,836 Speaker 3: there's twenty two chords in it. Yep. Besides the the 621 00:35:01,036 --> 00:35:04,716 Speaker 3: the other part is very jazzy, like F major seventh 622 00:35:04,716 --> 00:35:05,076 Speaker 3: over G. 623 00:35:07,876 --> 00:35:08,596 Speaker 5: These eyes. 624 00:35:10,036 --> 00:35:19,956 Speaker 3: Nobody would go that's standard Papa jazzys. These eyes. I'm 625 00:35:20,076 --> 00:35:22,436 Speaker 3: crying these I've seen a lot of. 626 00:35:24,516 --> 00:35:30,236 Speaker 4: Change key like you what these. 627 00:35:30,076 --> 00:35:38,476 Speaker 3: A changed key again? You change again? These keeps changing 628 00:35:38,516 --> 00:35:40,396 Speaker 3: key in going up And for Burton to sing that 629 00:35:40,436 --> 00:35:43,756 Speaker 3: he was eighteen at the time, you can't sing that song. 630 00:35:43,836 --> 00:35:46,076 Speaker 3: Nobody can sing that except him and maybe Elton John 631 00:35:46,196 --> 00:35:49,516 Speaker 3: or Stephen Tyler. You got to have like a three 632 00:35:49,636 --> 00:35:51,716 Speaker 3: or four octave voice and hit every note. Oh our 633 00:35:51,756 --> 00:35:55,236 Speaker 3: crime like really like that. I got really lucky to 634 00:35:55,276 --> 00:35:59,036 Speaker 3: get this guy as a singer, really incredible singer. Even today, 635 00:35:59,716 --> 00:36:02,236 Speaker 3: I'm listening to old tracks that we did years ago. 636 00:36:02,956 --> 00:36:05,116 Speaker 3: Just incredible voice. He's still touring and if we get 637 00:36:05,116 --> 00:36:07,316 Speaker 3: the guest who name back, will be We'll be touring 638 00:36:07,356 --> 00:36:10,076 Speaker 3: at the Guest Who next year. The real guys who wrote. 639 00:36:09,836 --> 00:36:11,716 Speaker 2: The songs, not the guys who. 640 00:36:12,236 --> 00:36:15,876 Speaker 3: So you mentioned laughing. Okay, that's from the platter song 641 00:36:16,756 --> 00:36:17,996 Speaker 3: and cliches. 642 00:36:17,476 --> 00:36:25,796 Speaker 4: Of night are calling. It's twilight time time together last 643 00:36:25,796 --> 00:36:30,516 Speaker 4: a twelight time. I should laugh, but I cried because 644 00:36:30,556 --> 00:36:36,036 Speaker 4: you'll learn. Let's be boar. Also, Dave Clark. 645 00:36:36,596 --> 00:36:39,996 Speaker 3: Give me one chance, I'll be. 646 00:36:40,356 --> 00:36:53,156 Speaker 6: Happy just to be with you. Give me give me 647 00:36:54,356 --> 00:37:02,036 Speaker 6: a chance to be near you mecausecause I love you. 648 00:37:02,516 --> 00:37:04,996 Speaker 3: Dave Clark took the same thing and wrote just because. 649 00:37:06,156 --> 00:37:08,596 Speaker 3: So they're all there. And I learned this trick from 650 00:37:08,596 --> 00:37:12,356 Speaker 3: Brian Willison when I turned the Beach Boys. Brian, how 651 00:37:12,356 --> 00:37:15,036 Speaker 3: do you get these chord progressions? He said, get a 652 00:37:15,076 --> 00:37:18,436 Speaker 3: fake book. Every musician in New York goin. They're jazz 653 00:37:18,516 --> 00:37:21,436 Speaker 3: fake where they're all the Broadway hit songs. So I said, look, 654 00:37:21,676 --> 00:37:27,236 Speaker 3: give me an example. Okay, here's an example five but two. 655 00:37:28,596 --> 00:37:33,836 Speaker 3: Has anybody see my Instead of those changes, keep them 656 00:37:33,836 --> 00:37:36,556 Speaker 3: half as long or keep them double? I said, what 657 00:37:36,596 --> 00:37:40,996 Speaker 3: do you mean? He goes, I get around my side 658 00:37:41,036 --> 00:37:46,916 Speaker 3: of town. I'm a real good head, make it real 659 00:37:46,956 --> 00:37:54,756 Speaker 3: good bread. I get around and it's five for two, 660 00:37:54,956 --> 00:38:00,756 Speaker 3: five for two. Excif going five for two, he just 661 00:38:00,796 --> 00:38:05,516 Speaker 3: made it longer. Get a fake book. They tell you 662 00:38:05,956 --> 00:38:08,236 Speaker 3: how to put chords after chords and end up where 663 00:38:08,276 --> 00:38:10,356 Speaker 3: you started where you should when you're singing a song 664 00:38:10,996 --> 00:38:13,716 Speaker 3: with these transitional things and middle eights that are unbelievable 665 00:38:13,756 --> 00:38:17,076 Speaker 3: Broadway middle eights or what prompted the Beatles, the middle 666 00:38:17,116 --> 00:38:20,396 Speaker 3: eight of every song is another little song that gives 667 00:38:20,396 --> 00:38:22,676 Speaker 3: your relief from the verses and the choruses. So a 668 00:38:22,716 --> 00:38:24,916 Speaker 3: lot of the guests whose songs had middle eights or 669 00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:27,676 Speaker 3: pre courses, whatever you want to call them. 670 00:38:27,716 --> 00:38:30,236 Speaker 2: So give me a good example of a pre chorus 671 00:38:30,276 --> 00:38:34,196 Speaker 2: from Beatles or from the Beatles are from the guests who. 672 00:38:34,116 --> 00:38:47,796 Speaker 3: Song, well, well it's another instead of going uh over 673 00:38:47,836 --> 00:38:54,236 Speaker 3: and over, not the pre course and then the odd 674 00:38:54,356 --> 00:38:57,516 Speaker 3: then the big course comes in the thing. And we 675 00:38:57,516 --> 00:38:59,476 Speaker 3: were very lucky to record that here in New York 676 00:39:00,076 --> 00:39:02,556 Speaker 3: at Phil Vermon Studio, with Phil Vermon being our engineer 677 00:39:02,596 --> 00:39:05,196 Speaker 3: and mixer. Because you hear these eyes on the radio, 678 00:39:05,676 --> 00:39:09,836 Speaker 3: it sounds phenomenal. Even today everything is and thick and 679 00:39:09,916 --> 00:39:13,396 Speaker 3: roomy and juicy and phenomenal, where other stuff sounds very dry. 680 00:39:13,436 --> 00:39:13,996 Speaker 3: From that era. 681 00:39:14,636 --> 00:39:17,996 Speaker 2: You did two songs I think off that record in 682 00:39:18,036 --> 00:39:19,356 Speaker 2: New York, didn't you, because. 683 00:39:19,156 --> 00:39:22,116 Speaker 3: Well the whole album, well, here's what happened. The whole album, 684 00:39:22,196 --> 00:39:24,396 Speaker 3: the Wheatfield sol was done at Philermont Studio. Are in 685 00:39:24,436 --> 00:39:29,516 Speaker 3: our studios sounded great. Then we signed with RCA. We 686 00:39:29,516 --> 00:39:32,596 Speaker 3: were independent before that. These I became a hit. RCA 687 00:39:32,676 --> 00:39:34,676 Speaker 3: signed it. We get to New York and they say, 688 00:39:34,716 --> 00:39:38,276 Speaker 3: guess what, you now get to use our studios. Really 689 00:39:38,316 --> 00:39:40,516 Speaker 3: where are they? Or they're in Greenwich Village. It's where 690 00:39:40,636 --> 00:39:44,796 Speaker 3: being Crosby cut White Christmas. Oh really, so we're going 691 00:39:44,796 --> 00:39:47,356 Speaker 3: to the room is dead. It's an okay chamber for 692 00:39:47,476 --> 00:39:50,316 Speaker 3: having strings. You don't want big boomy strings. We go 693 00:39:50,316 --> 00:39:52,356 Speaker 3: in there. We can't even get a drum sound we're 694 00:39:52,356 --> 00:39:54,076 Speaker 3: trying to do. Is it because the room's too big 695 00:39:54,436 --> 00:39:57,756 Speaker 3: or carpet everywhere? Like there was no there was no 696 00:39:57,836 --> 00:40:01,596 Speaker 3: room sound. You clapped, it was your clap vanished and 697 00:40:01,716 --> 00:40:05,676 Speaker 3: had weird little pockets in the corner of bass oofs 698 00:40:05,716 --> 00:40:07,596 Speaker 3: and things like that. It wasn't really a great studio. 699 00:40:09,196 --> 00:40:11,556 Speaker 3: So we're in there trying to record the follow up 700 00:40:12,556 --> 00:40:14,956 Speaker 3: to These Eyes, which is now a million seller, and 701 00:40:15,116 --> 00:40:18,516 Speaker 3: RCA is screaming, do another song, do another song, and 702 00:40:18,556 --> 00:40:20,636 Speaker 3: we're saying we're a rock band. We only did one ballad. 703 00:40:20,716 --> 00:40:22,476 Speaker 3: It was These Eyes. We don't want to be Gary Peckett, 704 00:40:22,476 --> 00:40:24,956 Speaker 3: the Union Gap with Young Girl Get Out of My Mind, 705 00:40:24,996 --> 00:40:27,676 Speaker 3: over and over and over, and the Rocco like anestros 706 00:40:27,676 --> 00:40:29,876 Speaker 3: they had guy at the time said radio ain't going 707 00:40:29,916 --> 00:40:31,276 Speaker 3: to play a rock song by you guys, not for 708 00:40:31,316 --> 00:40:32,916 Speaker 3: a couple of years. We want to not a ballad 709 00:40:32,916 --> 00:40:36,396 Speaker 3: of just like these Eyes. Okay Rocco And I heard 710 00:40:36,436 --> 00:40:42,716 Speaker 3: the beg song in the event of something happening to me, 711 00:40:44,076 --> 00:40:45,996 Speaker 3: there's something I would like it. So I said to Briton, 712 00:40:46,316 --> 00:40:49,276 Speaker 3: I started these eyes with a piano, which gives you 713 00:40:49,316 --> 00:40:51,236 Speaker 3: a break. And he's on stage. He goes, boom boom, 714 00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:53,596 Speaker 3: that a little intro. Everybody knows that, and it's so simple. 715 00:40:54,116 --> 00:40:57,996 Speaker 3: I'm going to take the begs and put the platters 716 00:40:58,036 --> 00:40:58,316 Speaker 3: over it. 717 00:40:58,356 --> 00:40:58,636 Speaker 5: And go. 718 00:41:01,756 --> 00:41:04,716 Speaker 3: But I love nothing, And he said, well do you 719 00:41:04,716 --> 00:41:08,076 Speaker 3: have I don't have any lyrics. He said what should 720 00:41:08,076 --> 00:41:09,956 Speaker 3: we call I said, well, represent that had a song 721 00:41:09,996 --> 00:41:12,956 Speaker 3: called crying. What don't we call this laughing? You're laughing 722 00:41:12,956 --> 00:41:16,916 Speaker 3: at me? You're breaking up, You're crying, You're laughing, I'm crying, 723 00:41:16,956 --> 00:41:20,356 Speaker 3: You're laughing, and then then you're crying. I'm laughing, laugh 724 00:41:20,516 --> 00:41:26,676 Speaker 3: and you're crying. And he goes, first song, it's first 725 00:41:26,716 --> 00:41:29,476 Speaker 3: one that anybody ever laughed, and that became a hit, 726 00:41:31,036 --> 00:41:33,356 Speaker 3: and so that song becomes rocos thing and then they 727 00:41:33,356 --> 00:41:36,316 Speaker 3: flip it over and play undone. And I've heard other 728 00:41:36,316 --> 00:41:38,796 Speaker 3: guys say when they heard Undone on the radio, it 729 00:41:38,836 --> 00:41:42,356 Speaker 3: was life changing for them to hear jazzy chords like 730 00:41:42,396 --> 00:41:45,236 Speaker 3: that with a pop voice and a food solo played 731 00:41:45,276 --> 00:41:47,876 Speaker 3: on Top forty. The first time I heard Panima on 732 00:41:47,916 --> 00:41:49,716 Speaker 3: the radio was the same thing. In the middle of 733 00:41:49,756 --> 00:41:52,876 Speaker 3: all this stuff of beatles and beach boys and over 734 00:41:52,876 --> 00:41:55,396 Speaker 3: the radio and rolling stones, outcomes Girl from Me Panina 735 00:41:55,596 --> 00:41:58,836 Speaker 3: with the sexy voice of Astros Jolberto and the sacks 736 00:41:58,836 --> 00:42:01,156 Speaker 3: of stan Gets. It's like nothing on the radio song, 737 00:42:01,276 --> 00:42:02,636 Speaker 3: like do you want to hear it over and over again? 738 00:42:02,636 --> 00:42:04,836 Speaker 3: Because it was so unusual and the same thing. I 739 00:42:04,876 --> 00:42:07,516 Speaker 3: was told the same thing with undone, to have major 740 00:42:07,556 --> 00:42:10,196 Speaker 3: and minor sevens in the over and over and over, 741 00:42:10,596 --> 00:42:12,716 Speaker 3: with a pop melody over it and a great voice 742 00:42:12,756 --> 00:42:15,396 Speaker 3: like Burdens, which are now a recognizable voice because of 743 00:42:15,476 --> 00:42:18,556 Speaker 3: these eyes and laughing, and they're playing undone, and finally 744 00:42:18,596 --> 00:42:20,956 Speaker 3: we rocked out with no time in an American Woman. 745 00:42:21,196 --> 00:42:25,356 Speaker 2: But even in undone, which is, as you said, a 746 00:42:25,396 --> 00:42:31,036 Speaker 2: jazzy song, it's got that heavier middle section, the too 747 00:42:31,076 --> 00:42:33,796 Speaker 2: many people section, which has like a heavier guitar sound. 748 00:42:33,836 --> 00:42:35,756 Speaker 3: I was trying to write a middle eight. It didn't fit. 749 00:42:35,796 --> 00:42:37,916 Speaker 3: There had so many chords. So one thing you learn, 750 00:42:38,036 --> 00:42:40,636 Speaker 3: you're writing a song. And I saw a great show 751 00:42:40,636 --> 00:42:43,516 Speaker 3: a little a little while many years ago. Paul Simon 752 00:42:43,556 --> 00:42:48,676 Speaker 3: and singing together two, three songs alone, a couple together, 753 00:42:48,756 --> 00:42:50,996 Speaker 3: two or three loone, searching back and forth, and I 754 00:42:51,076 --> 00:42:54,716 Speaker 3: noticed the similarity. Every Paul Simon and sing song and 755 00:42:54,756 --> 00:42:59,156 Speaker 3: solo songs have got incredible verses with very very lot 756 00:42:59,196 --> 00:43:02,436 Speaker 3: of lyrics, and when it gets to the chorus, it's boom, 757 00:43:02,756 --> 00:43:10,676 Speaker 3: simple three chords, simple verses. Keeping that in mind, I 758 00:43:10,716 --> 00:43:13,236 Speaker 3: did the same thing with Undone, A lot of chords, 759 00:43:13,236 --> 00:43:15,156 Speaker 3: a lot of verses. I get to the middle, and 760 00:43:15,236 --> 00:43:18,116 Speaker 3: I got to make the middle boring mm hmm. And 761 00:43:18,156 --> 00:43:20,636 Speaker 3: I don't know what to do, so I just take 762 00:43:29,156 --> 00:43:33,596 Speaker 3: too many mountains and I don't know what I'm doing, 763 00:43:33,636 --> 00:43:38,156 Speaker 3: but it's kind of like a cello line the nature. 764 00:43:39,796 --> 00:43:41,796 Speaker 3: Then I go too. 765 00:43:41,596 --> 00:43:49,316 Speaker 5: Many people, not enough us to see, too many lies 766 00:43:49,556 --> 00:44:00,076 Speaker 5: to leave, not enough time too. 767 00:43:57,276 --> 00:43:58,796 Speaker 3: And I saw that from the Zombies too, at the 768 00:43:58,876 --> 00:44:04,796 Speaker 3: end of tell her No Little, that's Britain hitting his face. 769 00:44:05,716 --> 00:44:12,956 Speaker 3: Oh h your cheek. Yeah, before you stole from everybody 770 00:44:12,956 --> 00:44:15,236 Speaker 3: told them. So you meet rod Ers and say, man, 771 00:44:15,316 --> 00:44:16,916 Speaker 3: we stole your thing. He said, I know it. I 772 00:44:16,996 --> 00:44:19,116 Speaker 3: knew the first time I heard it. Congratulations, did a 773 00:44:19,116 --> 00:44:19,876 Speaker 3: great job, you know. 774 00:44:20,036 --> 00:44:23,716 Speaker 2: So you also recorded in Minneapolis, right that's where we 775 00:44:23,716 --> 00:44:25,036 Speaker 2: first went Okay. 776 00:44:25,156 --> 00:44:28,676 Speaker 3: When we were in Winnipeg, we shaken over with one microphone. 777 00:44:29,076 --> 00:44:31,956 Speaker 3: We had a Fender concert amp, which is two channels, 778 00:44:31,956 --> 00:44:34,436 Speaker 3: but four and two inputs in each channel. So I 779 00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:36,796 Speaker 3: had my guitar through a little echo tape recorder into 780 00:44:36,836 --> 00:44:39,596 Speaker 3: one channel with the bass. The other one had a 781 00:44:41,596 --> 00:44:45,436 Speaker 3: real guitar mic on a piano. Little would call the 782 00:44:45,476 --> 00:44:47,116 Speaker 3: mouse pickup the he's just stuck on a piano, A 783 00:44:47,196 --> 00:44:50,156 Speaker 3: little contact like that. So our mixing board with the 784 00:44:50,196 --> 00:44:52,676 Speaker 3: Fender amp, one mic in the middle of a room 785 00:44:52,756 --> 00:44:55,116 Speaker 3: just like this, a set of drums and Chad Allen, 786 00:44:55,156 --> 00:44:57,116 Speaker 3: the singer, stood in front of the mic and sang 787 00:44:57,156 --> 00:44:59,956 Speaker 3: shaken all over. Wow. We heard a playback. The drums 788 00:44:59,996 --> 00:45:02,436 Speaker 3: were too loud. We moved the drums back of foot. 789 00:45:02,836 --> 00:45:06,196 Speaker 3: Chad moved in closer. I turned my guitar up. We 790 00:45:06,236 --> 00:45:08,076 Speaker 3: did five takes. We picked the take that had the 791 00:45:08,156 --> 00:45:10,716 Speaker 3: least amount of stakes. Mono, you had to do five 792 00:45:10,796 --> 00:45:13,996 Speaker 3: or six takes and everybody kept making mistakes. You picked 793 00:45:14,036 --> 00:45:15,716 Speaker 3: the one with least amount of mistakes. We sent it 794 00:45:15,756 --> 00:45:19,316 Speaker 3: into the record label. We were called Chad Allen and 795 00:45:19,356 --> 00:45:22,436 Speaker 3: the reflections. We couldn't use the name because the Reflections 796 00:45:22,436 --> 00:45:24,836 Speaker 3: had a hit called just like Romeo and Juliet then 797 00:45:24,876 --> 00:45:27,436 Speaker 3: from Baltimore, and we had to change our name. We 798 00:45:27,436 --> 00:45:30,396 Speaker 3: couldn't find a name, so they said, we'd like this 799 00:45:30,436 --> 00:45:33,636 Speaker 3: record a lot. Take advantage of the British Invasion. It 800 00:45:33,756 --> 00:45:35,716 Speaker 3: sounds very British. It is a British hit. It was 801 00:45:35,996 --> 00:45:38,476 Speaker 3: number one in nineteen sixty one by Johnny Kidnap Pirates, 802 00:45:38,636 --> 00:45:40,996 Speaker 3: And here we are in sixty four and this could 803 00:45:40,996 --> 00:45:42,476 Speaker 3: be a hit here and the kids in Winnipeg love 804 00:45:42,516 --> 00:45:46,116 Speaker 3: it at the dances. It's British Invasion, but it's heavy 805 00:45:46,196 --> 00:45:47,916 Speaker 3: rock and roll. It's not pop like the Beatles. Stuff 806 00:45:47,996 --> 00:45:53,116 Speaker 3: was really poppy. And they put out fifty white labels, 807 00:45:53,716 --> 00:45:56,916 Speaker 3: forty fives shaken all over big black letters and put 808 00:45:56,916 --> 00:45:58,956 Speaker 3: guests who with a question mark hundred and it came 809 00:45:58,956 --> 00:46:00,796 Speaker 3: out in Canada and everybody in the radio thought it 810 00:46:00,836 --> 00:46:03,396 Speaker 3: was a British band. That it was Brian Jones and 811 00:46:03,436 --> 00:46:05,996 Speaker 3: George Harrison and a guy from the Pretty Things and 812 00:46:06,036 --> 00:46:08,316 Speaker 3: a guy from all these band together at a party 813 00:46:08,436 --> 00:46:10,116 Speaker 3: who couldn't put their name on it because they're all 814 00:46:10,156 --> 00:46:11,996 Speaker 3: signed with different bands and a different label. So they put 815 00:46:11,996 --> 00:46:14,756 Speaker 3: guests who on it. So this mystique starts above the 816 00:46:14,836 --> 00:46:17,836 Speaker 3: song and we're calling rediously saying it's us, it's us, 817 00:46:17,836 --> 00:46:20,196 Speaker 3: and they're saying, no, it's not. As a British band anyway. 818 00:46:20,236 --> 00:46:23,516 Speaker 3: That goes to number one in Canada. Florence leases it 819 00:46:23,516 --> 00:46:25,756 Speaker 3: for Scepter Records here and it goes top twenty in Billboard. 820 00:46:25,956 --> 00:46:28,956 Speaker 3: We're in high school, right, I quit school before my 821 00:46:28,996 --> 00:46:31,036 Speaker 3: final example to come here to do The Kingsman, Louis 822 00:46:31,076 --> 00:46:34,516 Speaker 3: Louis Tour, which was incredible. Deannor the Belmonts, Barbara Mason, 823 00:46:34,596 --> 00:46:37,316 Speaker 3: Eddie Hodges, the Turtle, Sanda Sham and the Pharaoh down 824 00:46:37,716 --> 00:46:41,996 Speaker 3: in Memphis, and the Kingsman, the Louis Louis Tour like incredible. 825 00:46:43,196 --> 00:46:47,596 Speaker 2: You mentioned American Woman and that song came out of 826 00:46:47,596 --> 00:46:52,196 Speaker 2: a almost an accident, right, It came out of a jam. 827 00:46:52,116 --> 00:46:57,036 Speaker 3: Us an accident. We had been playing the States, backing 828 00:46:57,076 --> 00:46:59,356 Speaker 3: up other groups like Crystals, run S, stuff like that. 829 00:46:59,836 --> 00:47:01,356 Speaker 3: And when you did that, you played one song, You 830 00:47:01,396 --> 00:47:04,036 Speaker 3: played Shaken all over and maybe another song in the middle. 831 00:47:04,156 --> 00:47:05,676 Speaker 3: We might have played the Louis Louis sing We just 832 00:47:05,676 --> 00:47:10,036 Speaker 3: on tour the Kingsman, and then you up another band 833 00:47:10,316 --> 00:47:14,356 Speaker 3: or the swarfied bands. We reach play ten minutes. We 834 00:47:14,396 --> 00:47:17,916 Speaker 3: suddenly got a gig in Canada, a three hour dance 835 00:47:17,996 --> 00:47:20,956 Speaker 3: at a bond Spiel, which is curling, a curling tournament. 836 00:47:21,796 --> 00:47:24,716 Speaker 3: So there's ice. It's a half moon in the prairie 837 00:47:24,756 --> 00:47:29,276 Speaker 3: of aluminum with no heat. They freeze the I think 838 00:47:29,316 --> 00:47:31,316 Speaker 3: pour water in the ice. There's targets and they're sliding 839 00:47:31,396 --> 00:47:33,836 Speaker 3: rocks around and it's a bond Spiel. It's a curling tournament. 840 00:47:34,436 --> 00:47:37,196 Speaker 3: We get a dance in there to celebrate the bond Spiel. 841 00:47:37,436 --> 00:47:40,396 Speaker 3: They put plywood on the floor the stage and body 842 00:47:40,436 --> 00:47:43,236 Speaker 3: heat warms it up, and we're playing on stage. It's 843 00:47:43,276 --> 00:47:45,556 Speaker 3: a three hour set, so by then you'd have a 844 00:47:45,596 --> 00:47:48,116 Speaker 3: set written out. We would take a break, and then 845 00:47:48,156 --> 00:47:50,516 Speaker 3: when the next set starts, instead of calling each other 846 00:47:50,556 --> 00:47:52,676 Speaker 3: because the no iPhones are nothing, then the band would 847 00:47:52,916 --> 00:47:55,076 Speaker 3: start to play dune dud doo doo doo doo to 848 00:47:55,156 --> 00:47:57,396 Speaker 3: an animal song. We'd all know that's the beginning. We'd 849 00:47:57,396 --> 00:48:00,596 Speaker 3: all come to the stage and finish the song. In 850 00:48:00,636 --> 00:48:02,276 Speaker 3: the middle of a song, I break a string. I'm 851 00:48:02,276 --> 00:48:06,156 Speaker 3: playing my fifty nine less pole which have the bigs 852 00:48:06,156 --> 00:48:08,156 Speaker 3: beyond it, so your string has to come from here. 853 00:48:08,236 --> 00:48:10,916 Speaker 3: It's got to go over the ridge, under a bar, 854 00:48:12,076 --> 00:48:15,676 Speaker 3: over a bar and the little hole in the string, 855 00:48:15,756 --> 00:48:18,756 Speaker 3: and that's got to fit a little nipple on your Bigsby. 856 00:48:20,516 --> 00:48:22,876 Speaker 3: And then so you do your big B. So you've 857 00:48:22,876 --> 00:48:24,516 Speaker 3: got to bend a string and put it under and 858 00:48:24,516 --> 00:48:28,196 Speaker 3: put it on this little nipple. It's in the dark. 859 00:48:28,236 --> 00:48:30,556 Speaker 3: I have no road. You have no tuner. So Burton coming, 860 00:48:30,596 --> 00:48:33,756 Speaker 3: says Randy Brooke, a string talks about yourself. He's got 861 00:48:33,796 --> 00:48:35,836 Speaker 3: to change the string. So I go. I'm on my 862 00:48:35,916 --> 00:48:37,956 Speaker 3: floor in front of Burton's piano. I don't have a tuner, 863 00:48:38,316 --> 00:48:40,436 Speaker 3: so I'm going going going go on the piano playing 864 00:48:40,436 --> 00:48:42,436 Speaker 3: an E and a B. And I'm tuning up my guitar, 865 00:48:43,036 --> 00:48:48,236 Speaker 3: putting on my string. And as you're tuning a Bigsby, 866 00:48:48,636 --> 00:48:51,596 Speaker 3: there's a spring in it, so it's up this high. 867 00:48:51,636 --> 00:48:54,156 Speaker 3: So as you're tuning it, the handle and the spring 868 00:48:54,156 --> 00:48:55,836 Speaker 3: goes down. You have to keep tuning it over and 869 00:48:55,876 --> 00:48:58,636 Speaker 3: over until all the strings are in tune, because every 870 00:48:58,676 --> 00:49:00,876 Speaker 3: time you tighten the string, the spring goes down and 871 00:49:00,876 --> 00:49:02,676 Speaker 3: they all go out of tune. So I'm tuning it. 872 00:49:04,036 --> 00:49:11,356 Speaker 3: I'm going so I like to tune the guitar to 873 00:49:11,476 --> 00:49:25,436 Speaker 3: walk to five five five one, and I'm on my 874 00:49:25,516 --> 00:49:28,436 Speaker 3: niece playing that, and the audience their head snaps around 875 00:49:28,436 --> 00:49:31,556 Speaker 3: and go, oh my god, I can't forget this riff. 876 00:49:31,596 --> 00:49:33,156 Speaker 3: And I'm in the dark. I stand up in front 877 00:49:33,156 --> 00:49:37,556 Speaker 3: of Burton's piano and I go like this. The drummer 878 00:49:37,556 --> 00:49:40,676 Speaker 3: comes on, he starts to play. Jim Becks starts playing bass. 879 00:49:41,236 --> 00:49:43,076 Speaker 3: Burton is out at the back of the hall hanging 880 00:49:43,116 --> 00:49:47,436 Speaker 3: out with some guys and it's not a recognizable song. 881 00:49:47,636 --> 00:49:50,556 Speaker 3: So he's in the audience talking, we're not playing the 882 00:49:50,796 --> 00:49:53,076 Speaker 3: next song in the sets, we're not playing also the 883 00:49:53,156 --> 00:49:55,476 Speaker 3: Rising Son or whatever the animal song is that dode 884 00:49:55,596 --> 00:49:57,276 Speaker 3: in that dirty old part. We got to get out 885 00:49:57,276 --> 00:49:58,996 Speaker 3: of this place. We're not playing. We got to get 886 00:49:58,996 --> 00:50:00,916 Speaker 3: out of this place. And somebody says, then, why aren't 887 00:50:00,956 --> 00:50:02,396 Speaker 3: you on stage with the band. He looks at we're 888 00:50:02,396 --> 00:50:06,476 Speaker 3: on stage because running on I'm doing play something. He 889 00:50:06,476 --> 00:50:09,156 Speaker 3: does harmonica solo, he does a piano solo. Very he 890 00:50:09,236 --> 00:50:11,916 Speaker 3: brought argent and zombie solo. He plays a flute solo. 891 00:50:11,956 --> 00:50:14,716 Speaker 3: I said, sing something, Sing anything, because I know you 892 00:50:14,756 --> 00:50:17,196 Speaker 3: have words. You'll help you to remember the riff. The 893 00:50:17,276 --> 00:50:19,996 Speaker 3: riff is so simple, you forget it. So he's sang 894 00:50:20,036 --> 00:50:22,876 Speaker 3: American woman, stay away from me four times. That was it. 895 00:50:23,276 --> 00:50:25,716 Speaker 3: We soloed, he did it again. That was it. We 896 00:50:25,716 --> 00:50:27,836 Speaker 3: will go to record. We tell Jack Richardson, we got 897 00:50:27,836 --> 00:50:31,916 Speaker 3: this song, but I forget how it goes. What do 898 00:50:31,956 --> 00:50:35,156 Speaker 3: you mean, I said, well it was? He said, okay, everybody, 899 00:50:35,356 --> 00:50:37,556 Speaker 3: this is RCA studio is in New York, in Chicago. 900 00:50:38,156 --> 00:50:39,916 Speaker 3: Everybody out of the studio. Randy, get on your knees 901 00:50:39,916 --> 00:50:42,276 Speaker 3: in front of Burne's piano, put a string on your guitar. 902 00:50:42,596 --> 00:50:45,916 Speaker 3: Get go back to that place. Oh wow, see if 903 00:50:45,916 --> 00:50:47,676 Speaker 3: you can tune the guitar so you can play the riff. 904 00:50:48,316 --> 00:50:50,836 Speaker 3: And if we get we'll run the tape recorder, play 905 00:50:50,836 --> 00:50:52,556 Speaker 3: the riff, play what you think the riff is, and 906 00:50:52,596 --> 00:50:56,236 Speaker 3: then we'll come in. And meanwhile, I got a version 907 00:50:56,276 --> 00:50:58,636 Speaker 3: of that. It's terrible, but it's the riff and I'm 908 00:50:58,676 --> 00:51:11,876 Speaker 3: doing it. It's almost like it's almost like that, just 909 00:51:11,876 --> 00:51:14,756 Speaker 3: playing the rip like that, And out of that we 910 00:51:14,836 --> 00:51:16,716 Speaker 3: taped it. We listened to it. I played the rhythm 911 00:51:16,716 --> 00:51:23,196 Speaker 3: on my gretch and my uh Fender stratocastro that and 912 00:51:23,236 --> 00:51:25,716 Speaker 3: then to sit on top because there's no foot pedals. 913 00:51:25,756 --> 00:51:28,956 Speaker 3: Then you had one app and three guitars. The fender 914 00:51:29,036 --> 00:51:31,956 Speaker 3: was thinner, the gibson was thicker in sound, and the 915 00:51:31,996 --> 00:51:34,316 Speaker 3: gretch was more ringier, or you had a rickenback or 916 00:51:34,316 --> 00:51:36,676 Speaker 3: something like that. So on top since this less Paul, 917 00:51:36,716 --> 00:51:41,796 Speaker 3: this just right on top of the track and it's 918 00:51:41,836 --> 00:51:45,516 Speaker 3: just floating there and it's magic happened in the studio 919 00:51:45,556 --> 00:51:46,516 Speaker 3: with that? How did you. 920 00:51:46,476 --> 00:51:50,076 Speaker 2: Get that on that solo? The is it the sustain? 921 00:51:50,196 --> 00:51:51,636 Speaker 2: There's something on that solo the. 922 00:51:52,556 --> 00:51:56,516 Speaker 3: Way way way back. Because I grew up playing violin 923 00:51:56,596 --> 00:51:59,516 Speaker 3: and I love viola. I have a viola now because 924 00:51:59,556 --> 00:52:02,116 Speaker 3: I got too big for violin. Two hunch avilla is 925 00:52:02,116 --> 00:52:04,876 Speaker 3: just a bigger violin. Same. I put the violin strings 926 00:52:04,876 --> 00:52:08,796 Speaker 3: on tune like a viola, tune like a violin. I 927 00:52:08,796 --> 00:52:13,556 Speaker 3: always wanted to play melodic solos, and melodic solos aren't 928 00:52:17,636 --> 00:52:21,276 Speaker 3: like national anthem kind of things or hymns. There's no 929 00:52:21,356 --> 00:52:26,436 Speaker 3: fast hymns. It's onward Christian, so just like everybody can 930 00:52:26,476 --> 00:52:29,516 Speaker 3: sing it. So I want to play line and I 931 00:52:29,516 --> 00:52:32,756 Speaker 3: can't get to sustain. So I figure out if you 932 00:52:32,796 --> 00:52:35,196 Speaker 3: put a little amp into a big amp, the little 933 00:52:35,236 --> 00:52:37,396 Speaker 3: amp can be loud and you take the speaker out 934 00:52:37,436 --> 00:52:40,476 Speaker 3: molt Fender has had a little output to your speaker 935 00:52:40,836 --> 00:52:43,716 Speaker 3: into a big amp and you get this sustained sound 936 00:52:43,756 --> 00:52:46,796 Speaker 3: like a ciello or viola, like you're boeing and you're 937 00:52:46,876 --> 00:52:49,756 Speaker 3: using the vibrato in your hand. And that would last 938 00:52:49,836 --> 00:52:52,596 Speaker 3: maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and then the amp would 939 00:52:52,596 --> 00:52:55,596 Speaker 3: blow up. It literally go into flames because you're putting 940 00:52:55,636 --> 00:52:59,796 Speaker 3: electricity into electricity and if it goes on too long. Literally, 941 00:52:59,836 --> 00:53:01,556 Speaker 3: I would take the amp into a guy to get 942 00:53:01,556 --> 00:53:05,396 Speaker 3: it fixed every Saturday or Sunday or Monday morning after 943 00:53:05,556 --> 00:53:07,916 Speaker 3: don the gig because it would had burn marks all 944 00:53:07,956 --> 00:53:10,396 Speaker 3: over the amplifiers. And he said, what are you doing through? 945 00:53:10,436 --> 00:53:12,756 Speaker 3: These amps are on fire? And I'd say, well. His 946 00:53:12,836 --> 00:53:15,996 Speaker 3: name was gar Gar Gillis. Garnet Gillis said, Guar, I 947 00:53:15,996 --> 00:53:18,796 Speaker 3: plugged this into there and I get this really great sound. 948 00:53:18,796 --> 00:53:20,316 Speaker 3: So you can't put an amp into a namp. You 949 00:53:20,316 --> 00:53:22,956 Speaker 3: can put a preamp into an amp. Preamps about one 950 00:53:22,996 --> 00:53:25,596 Speaker 3: and a hat wats output. You're putting fifteen wats into 951 00:53:25,596 --> 00:53:28,596 Speaker 3: thirty amps. It's like gasoline and a match is going 952 00:53:28,596 --> 00:53:31,436 Speaker 3: to burst into flames. I say it does. He said, 953 00:53:31,436 --> 00:53:35,236 Speaker 3: I'll build your preamp. What's that, Well, stereos have a preamp. 954 00:53:35,236 --> 00:53:36,836 Speaker 3: I have a big amplifier. The one hundred and fifty 955 00:53:36,836 --> 00:53:39,236 Speaker 3: watts little preamp you put your tape recorder in or 956 00:53:39,276 --> 00:53:41,436 Speaker 3: your turntable. It's a one and a half watch. You 957 00:53:41,476 --> 00:53:43,276 Speaker 3: have a volume control. The other one is the big 958 00:53:43,316 --> 00:53:45,756 Speaker 3: power to make it loud. This that's your tone control. 959 00:53:45,756 --> 00:53:48,196 Speaker 3: And every so he makes me a thing, and we 960 00:53:48,316 --> 00:53:50,436 Speaker 3: just called it the noise machine. And I was reading 961 00:53:50,436 --> 00:53:54,436 Speaker 3: a book at the time by Werner Herzog, and I 962 00:53:54,476 --> 00:53:57,636 Speaker 3: would call him up and say, gar, I'm coming down. 963 00:53:57,716 --> 00:54:00,796 Speaker 3: Let's work on the noise machine again. And then we 964 00:54:00,836 --> 00:54:02,836 Speaker 3: had three noise machines. We need to get a name 965 00:54:02,876 --> 00:54:04,356 Speaker 3: for this thing. And my wife kept saying, to me, 966 00:54:04,716 --> 00:54:07,316 Speaker 3: how do you know what you're talking about. Why don't 967 00:54:07,356 --> 00:54:08,796 Speaker 3: you call I said, well, I would call him, say 968 00:54:08,836 --> 00:54:11,716 Speaker 3: I'm down to work on the thing. No, the other 969 00:54:11,796 --> 00:54:14,556 Speaker 3: thing all you guys talk is about is things. And 970 00:54:14,636 --> 00:54:16,596 Speaker 3: the other thing, I said, okay, I'll call it a Herzel. 971 00:54:16,636 --> 00:54:18,636 Speaker 3: You had this book called Verner Herzel, like a pocketbook. 972 00:54:18,996 --> 00:54:22,156 Speaker 3: I'll call this thing a Herzog. It's rather than a 973 00:54:22,196 --> 00:54:24,316 Speaker 3: buzz face or whatever you want to call it. So 974 00:54:24,356 --> 00:54:26,276 Speaker 3: he made me a think was one twelve AX seven 975 00:54:26,316 --> 00:54:28,956 Speaker 3: tube and another twelve AX seven tube you can put 976 00:54:28,996 --> 00:54:31,356 Speaker 3: in your drive. One tube by turning up your tube 977 00:54:31,396 --> 00:54:33,436 Speaker 3: gets really hot. The other one you can squeak in 978 00:54:33,476 --> 00:54:35,556 Speaker 3: a little bit and you make your sustain and it 979 00:54:35,596 --> 00:54:37,676 Speaker 3: goes out to your amplifiers about one and a half 980 00:54:37,676 --> 00:54:39,756 Speaker 3: wats out or even half a wat out to your 981 00:54:39,796 --> 00:54:41,996 Speaker 3: power amp. And he built me a power amp because 982 00:54:41,996 --> 00:54:43,876 Speaker 3: I blew up all the fenders. He would buy a 983 00:54:43,876 --> 00:54:46,756 Speaker 3: normal Dinaco Dina kit, which was a home sterea at 984 00:54:46,796 --> 00:54:50,196 Speaker 3: the time. Nice and clean, turn it up loud. It's clean. 985 00:54:50,196 --> 00:54:51,876 Speaker 3: You want your home sera to be clean. But the 986 00:54:52,076 --> 00:54:55,556 Speaker 3: little preamp, this Herzog made me distortion and a little 987 00:54:55,596 --> 00:54:58,396 Speaker 3: off on switch on the front, which we made. The 988 00:54:58,476 --> 00:55:00,836 Speaker 3: extra switch would be a little bit longer. If I'd 989 00:55:00,836 --> 00:55:03,356 Speaker 3: be playing a solo on stage, I'd flipping on to 990 00:55:03,476 --> 00:55:05,676 Speaker 3: my solo. At the end of the solo, I'd roll 991 00:55:05,756 --> 00:55:07,636 Speaker 3: my note and reached back from my elbow and turn 992 00:55:07,676 --> 00:55:12,356 Speaker 3: it off. The turn it on again with my thumb, 993 00:55:12,436 --> 00:55:16,436 Speaker 3: play the sole as I'm notes sting into the song again, 994 00:55:16,876 --> 00:55:18,476 Speaker 3: flip it off. I said, okay, can you put a 995 00:55:18,516 --> 00:55:20,756 Speaker 3: switch in there? A foot switch off and on switch. 996 00:55:21,796 --> 00:55:24,476 Speaker 3: So we made this thing called the Her Song that 997 00:55:24,836 --> 00:55:27,436 Speaker 3: plug into a Gardett app got me to sustain on 998 00:55:27,476 --> 00:55:29,956 Speaker 3: that thing as well as my less Paul had a 999 00:55:29,956 --> 00:55:32,196 Speaker 3: Bigsby on it. So when you're bending a note on 1000 00:55:32,196 --> 00:55:36,836 Speaker 3: a guitar, you go from there up, but you can't 1001 00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:40,796 Speaker 3: go you can't go below unless you go That's not 1002 00:55:40,836 --> 00:55:50,636 Speaker 3: the same when you have a Bigsby. So you're bending 1003 00:55:50,636 --> 00:55:53,076 Speaker 3: a note here and you're getting a shake below and 1004 00:55:53,076 --> 00:55:55,876 Speaker 3: above pitch on An American Woman and I double tracked it. 1005 00:55:56,316 --> 00:55:58,276 Speaker 3: One thing we went to do that television show is 1006 00:55:58,276 --> 00:56:01,716 Speaker 3: Burton double tracked his vocals inmaculately sound to the syllabo, 1007 00:56:01,876 --> 00:56:04,476 Speaker 3: and I double tracked my guitar. You listen to No Time, 1008 00:56:05,036 --> 00:56:07,636 Speaker 3: they're all double track guitars and it sounds fat and thick. 1009 00:56:07,716 --> 00:56:09,916 Speaker 3: It sits right on top with the track no matter 1010 00:56:09,956 --> 00:56:13,476 Speaker 3: what you're listening to. So those all came from accident 1011 00:56:13,516 --> 00:56:15,716 Speaker 3: and trying to be a little bit different. I loved 1012 00:56:15,796 --> 00:56:17,876 Speaker 3: Eric Clapton solo and I Feel Free, That's what I'm 1013 00:56:17,916 --> 00:56:20,396 Speaker 3: copying An American Woman. You listen to the middle of 1014 00:56:20,436 --> 00:56:26,676 Speaker 3: my solo, it's pretty much I feel free that they're 1015 00:56:26,716 --> 00:56:30,076 Speaker 3: going I feel free, dude, Yeah, the same thing. 1016 00:56:30,476 --> 00:56:32,396 Speaker 2: Now, there must be you must have had a million 1017 00:56:32,476 --> 00:56:34,596 Speaker 2: pedal makers come up to you and say, how do 1018 00:56:34,676 --> 00:56:34,996 Speaker 2: I get that? 1019 00:56:35,196 --> 00:56:36,956 Speaker 3: I did a little while later somebody invented, I think, 1020 00:56:36,996 --> 00:56:39,356 Speaker 3: call a sons amp, because you're now recording at home 1021 00:56:39,436 --> 00:56:41,556 Speaker 3: the songs empt you're plug into it and it emulates 1022 00:56:41,556 --> 00:56:43,836 Speaker 3: a speaker in different sounds. And I had a sons 1023 00:56:43,876 --> 00:56:46,076 Speaker 3: amp was really good. And then they made a songzamp 1024 00:56:46,196 --> 00:56:48,916 Speaker 3: rack mount and when I got to number forty eight, 1025 00:56:48,956 --> 00:56:54,716 Speaker 3: I said, Amo, American Woman. I turned it on. It 1026 00:56:54,836 --> 00:56:58,756 Speaker 3: was my sound. Now it was my sound from the record, 1027 00:56:59,916 --> 00:57:03,116 Speaker 3: which was my fifty nine less Paul through a Garnet 1028 00:57:03,116 --> 00:57:06,516 Speaker 3: herzog through a garnet amp, through an RCA ribbon mic 1029 00:57:06,596 --> 00:57:11,716 Speaker 3: something like this through a Uri compressor to sixteen track tape, 1030 00:57:11,956 --> 00:57:14,076 Speaker 3: but with the final sound that was on the record. 1031 00:57:14,596 --> 00:57:15,916 Speaker 3: And so I called up the guy. He's in New 1032 00:57:15,996 --> 00:57:20,116 Speaker 3: York here so at sounzamp, famous guy, and I said, hey, 1033 00:57:21,196 --> 00:57:23,076 Speaker 3: I'm number forty eight. Can you make me an American 1034 00:57:23,116 --> 00:57:25,636 Speaker 3: woman pedal? He said sure, all I want is number 1035 00:57:25,636 --> 00:57:27,916 Speaker 3: forty eight in the pedal, So maybe a couple of pedals. 1036 00:57:27,956 --> 00:57:30,636 Speaker 3: They're very rare because at the time, he didn't have 1037 00:57:30,676 --> 00:57:34,036 Speaker 3: a big enough case for it, so he jammed it 1038 00:57:34,116 --> 00:57:37,756 Speaker 3: into a normal sized case. So because it's jammed in 1039 00:57:37,796 --> 00:57:41,716 Speaker 3: that pedal, if part of the circuit board touches the 1040 00:57:41,756 --> 00:57:44,996 Speaker 3: outer case, which is metal, it shorts out, So you 1041 00:57:45,076 --> 00:57:46,756 Speaker 3: got to take it apart and maybe put duct tape 1042 00:57:46,756 --> 00:57:49,836 Speaker 3: in there so it's like isolated. And then it's an American 1043 00:57:49,796 --> 00:57:52,036 Speaker 3: woman pedal. So there's a very few of those out today, 1044 00:57:52,036 --> 00:57:54,676 Speaker 3: but if you get a rack amount sounds, amp number 1045 00:57:54,676 --> 00:57:58,756 Speaker 3: forty eight is an American woman amazing. And then Garnett 1046 00:57:58,796 --> 00:58:01,836 Speaker 3: Gark called me, oh, maybe twelve fifteen years ago, and 1047 00:58:01,836 --> 00:58:04,116 Speaker 3: he said, look, I'm eighty five. I can hardly do this, 1048 00:58:04,156 --> 00:58:06,156 Speaker 3: and that I'm gearing down. I'm going to be passing 1049 00:58:06,156 --> 00:58:08,116 Speaker 3: away soon. I've got this wrong with me and that 1050 00:58:08,196 --> 00:58:10,836 Speaker 3: wrong with me. But I found a box of parts 1051 00:58:10,836 --> 00:58:13,716 Speaker 3: from nineteen sixty six when we made the original Herzog, 1052 00:58:15,156 --> 00:58:17,156 Speaker 3: and he said, I can make some. I said, how 1053 00:58:17,196 --> 00:58:18,436 Speaker 3: much do you want for me to I don't know. 1054 00:58:18,476 --> 00:58:20,716 Speaker 3: I said, oh, make as many as you can. How 1055 00:58:20,716 --> 00:58:24,476 Speaker 3: many these are all military high high duty, heavy duty parts. 1056 00:58:24,716 --> 00:58:26,676 Speaker 3: He said, I can make maybe eleven or twelve or thirty. 1057 00:58:26,796 --> 00:58:28,556 Speaker 3: I said, make them all, send them all to me. 1058 00:58:28,756 --> 00:58:30,476 Speaker 3: Tell me what you need. I'll pay you. I'll pay 1059 00:58:30,476 --> 00:58:33,636 Speaker 3: you double. So he sent them all to me. So 1060 00:58:33,716 --> 00:58:36,116 Speaker 3: I gave one to Neil Young, went to Lenny Kravitz, 1061 00:58:36,476 --> 00:58:38,476 Speaker 3: went to Bob Rock, the Great Producer, went to Steal 1062 00:58:38,516 --> 00:58:41,636 Speaker 3: Crop or Steve Cropper several to the national musicians who 1063 00:58:41,676 --> 00:58:43,876 Speaker 3: want to get that sound when you hear let it ride, 1064 00:58:43,916 --> 00:58:53,036 Speaker 3: we're going slow thinking, which is my lust. Paul with 1065 00:58:53,156 --> 00:58:57,236 Speaker 3: the Bigsby through the herzog, it's like a cello. It's 1066 00:58:57,316 --> 00:59:00,436 Speaker 3: phenomen better than a shallow actual because a cello you 1067 00:59:00,516 --> 00:59:02,636 Speaker 3: gotta you run out of bow and you gotta go 1068 00:59:02,756 --> 00:59:06,996 Speaker 3: up upstroke down. When it's the herzog and you gotta sustain, 1069 00:59:07,076 --> 00:59:08,956 Speaker 3: and you got the Bigsby, then note can last for 1070 00:59:08,956 --> 00:59:13,436 Speaker 3: it Oh amazing. So those came out of a dream 1071 00:59:13,476 --> 00:59:15,276 Speaker 3: of wanting to play and have my guitar sound like 1072 00:59:15,276 --> 00:59:19,356 Speaker 3: ccello or a viola. I like the term slowhand because 1073 00:59:19,356 --> 00:59:21,476 Speaker 3: the Eric Clapton used to play very slow, and I 1074 00:59:21,516 --> 00:59:23,756 Speaker 3: played very slow, so I always got compared to him 1075 00:59:24,036 --> 00:59:26,996 Speaker 3: playing with the slowhand. Because you play one note and 1076 00:59:26,996 --> 00:59:28,836 Speaker 3: put something like bbck. You play one or two notes, 1077 00:59:28,836 --> 00:59:32,996 Speaker 3: you put more into it than guys going crazy all 1078 00:59:32,996 --> 00:59:34,996 Speaker 3: this kind of weird hammer on stuff. You can see 1079 00:59:35,036 --> 00:59:37,036 Speaker 3: kids on the internet now, and I saw somebody joking 1080 00:59:37,196 --> 00:59:41,916 Speaker 3: was Alex Van Aalen and Sammy Heygar. We're joking about 1081 00:59:41,916 --> 00:59:44,396 Speaker 3: these whiz kids now that you google at thirteen. They're 1082 00:59:44,436 --> 00:59:46,756 Speaker 3: eight years old. They're doing all these incredible hammer on 1083 00:59:46,796 --> 00:59:49,876 Speaker 3: stuff on YouTube. The world's fast and guitar player. But 1084 00:59:49,956 --> 00:59:51,596 Speaker 3: they can't play in a band, and they can't play 1085 00:59:51,636 --> 00:59:54,036 Speaker 3: a song. They just learned a whole bunch of licks 1086 00:59:54,076 --> 00:59:56,036 Speaker 3: that maybe their dad taught them, and they're really cool, 1087 00:59:56,276 --> 01:00:00,196 Speaker 3: and maybe someday they will realize there's something to holding back. 1088 01:00:00,236 --> 01:00:02,156 Speaker 3: And I'm playing with some guys and letting him do 1089 01:00:02,196 --> 01:00:04,236 Speaker 3: the groove and then you get a chance to groove. 1090 01:00:04,396 --> 01:00:06,756 Speaker 3: But things are so much different now with YouTube. Yeah. 1091 01:00:06,796 --> 01:00:08,356 Speaker 3: I mean when I learned, it was one record at 1092 01:00:08,356 --> 01:00:10,796 Speaker 3: a time, saved after your money. You bought a forty five, 1093 01:00:10,836 --> 01:00:12,516 Speaker 3: You learned the A and B side, who wrote it, 1094 01:00:12,756 --> 01:00:14,956 Speaker 3: who recorded, who published it, who wrote you learned everything. 1095 01:00:15,116 --> 01:00:17,396 Speaker 3: You traded it like Superman combooks to your friend who 1096 01:00:17,436 --> 01:00:19,636 Speaker 3: had a forty five. I would trade Neil Young singles. 1097 01:00:19,636 --> 01:00:22,116 Speaker 3: I at his single and traded my shadow singles back 1098 01:00:22,116 --> 01:00:25,596 Speaker 3: and forth. Those were the days, and the singles were 1099 01:00:25,636 --> 01:00:28,716 Speaker 3: so precious. I mean we couldn't afford anything, you know, 1100 01:00:28,756 --> 01:00:29,596 Speaker 3: it was like amazing. 1101 01:00:29,796 --> 01:00:33,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, well listen, we might be fragile. You're not fragile. 1102 01:00:34,276 --> 01:00:35,076 Speaker 3: I'm a survivor. 1103 01:00:35,796 --> 01:00:36,516 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 1104 01:00:36,556 --> 01:00:39,316 Speaker 3: Of my doctor's worst he called me his worst patience 1105 01:00:39,676 --> 01:00:41,756 Speaker 3: because I don't have to come back to it. Only 1106 01:00:41,996 --> 01:00:45,796 Speaker 3: last Wednesday, I would certified cancer free to two years 1107 01:00:45,836 --> 01:00:47,236 Speaker 3: and he said, I'll see you in another year. We've 1108 01:00:47,236 --> 01:00:49,356 Speaker 3: got to check you every year. But I had non 1109 01:00:49,356 --> 01:00:55,316 Speaker 3: hospital and Fulma had five cancers. Wow, stomach appendix, prostate, thyroid, 1110 01:00:55,716 --> 01:00:57,236 Speaker 3: and non hoskins all gone. 1111 01:00:57,516 --> 01:01:00,116 Speaker 2: Wow, looky, you look amazing and you're back playing. 1112 01:01:00,156 --> 01:01:00,396 Speaker 3: Thank you. 1113 01:01:03,356 --> 01:01:05,596 Speaker 1: Thanks Mandy Bachman for chatting with Bruce and bringing his 1114 01:01:05,636 --> 01:01:08,196 Speaker 1: guitar along to play through some of his great hits. 1115 01:01:08,596 --> 01:01:10,196 Speaker 1: If you want to hear playlist some of the songs 1116 01:01:10,236 --> 01:01:13,236 Speaker 1: mentioned in this episode, you can hear that at broken 1117 01:01:13,316 --> 01:01:17,356 Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at 1118 01:01:17,356 --> 01:01:20,276 Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can 1119 01:01:20,316 --> 01:01:23,556 Speaker 1: find all of our new episodes. You can follow us 1120 01:01:23,596 --> 01:01:27,116 Speaker 1: on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and 1121 01:01:27,236 --> 01:01:30,276 Speaker 1: edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Erek Sandler 1122 01:01:30,316 --> 01:01:34,596 Speaker 1: and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinay. Broken Record 1123 01:01:34,676 --> 01:01:37,716 Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this 1124 01:01:37,796 --> 01:01:41,796 Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 1125 01:01:42,356 --> 01:01:45,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 1126 01:01:45,716 --> 01:01:48,436 Speaker 1: and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. 1127 01:01:49,116 --> 01:01:52,996 Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if 1128 01:01:53,036 --> 01:01:55,516 Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and 1129 01:01:55,556 --> 01:01:58,236 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by 1130 01:01:58,316 --> 01:02:00,196 Speaker 1: Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.