1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Who killed Deborah Lynn Randall? How do you do something? 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: Ably Randall from January thirteen, nineteen seventy two. Daddy was 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: nine years old when she vanished. It's been more than 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: forty three years. This is current stories with Nancy Grace, 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: group of retired detectives volunteering their time, determined to bring 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: her family answer to the beautiful kids. You look at 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: the picture, you can say the Amason detective Nicks as 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: part of a rare group of retired police officers who 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: specialize in solving Cod Counties cold cases. If you're investigated 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: for a detective, could you a cop? That's what you 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: live for? That phone call that family saying, sit down 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: with the best mood news for you. I'd give in 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: your buying. Your factor found out who work for Flora 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: pe work haven't gotten and we're not going to give up. 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: Imagine on a cold winter's night, your nine year old 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: little girl, is that the laundry Matt boy, I remember 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: going to the laundry mat just a half a block away, 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: but she never makes at home. And when you go 19 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: looking for your nine year old little girl, all you 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: find is a spilled box of laundry detergent across the 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: street from your home. It's the only evidence she was 22 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: ever there. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: you for being with us. I'm talking about cold case 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: nine year old Debbie Lynn Randall and we are still 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: searching for answers. Along with me today is of course 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: Alan Duke, investigative reporter and special guests Detective Morris Nis Mars. 27 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you 28 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: for having me. Marris, what is your recollection of what happened? Well, Nancy, 29 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: this is the case that I actually remember the day 30 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: this happened, So I always had an interest in this case, 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: and once I came to the cold case unit, that's 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: one of the first cases that I asked about. This case. 33 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: The region belonged to the maria A Police Department, and 34 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: they did a great job back in the day with 35 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: the limited resources that they had. So we decided to 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: just hey, Marris, Marris Morris, if I may call you that, 37 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: hold on just a minute. We say that all the time. 38 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: People ask me all the time, Morris, what do you think, Nancy? 39 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: Do you think the cops screwed the case up? And 40 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: very often I say, I don't know that they screwed 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: the case up. I think what happened is they're overwhelmed. 42 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: They don't have all the resources you see on TV okay, 43 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: especially in smaller jurisdictions, and they're doing the best they can. 44 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: So I don't know that that's screwing the case up. 45 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: Could more have been done, sure, if there were you know, 46 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: maybe ten or fifteen more detective of us, and there 47 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: was all sorts of scientific advances yet maybe, but that's 48 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: not the case. So working with what they've got, No, 49 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: I don't think they screwed the case up. I think 50 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: they're doing everything they can. So could you explain when 51 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: you say with the limited resources they did everything they could, 52 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Basically, this will work three detectives 53 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: and of course they have other case loads and they 54 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: worked very hard. No, I don't think they screwed the 55 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,119 Speaker 1: case up at all. I think they did the best 56 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: that they could do. Of course, time moves on. These 57 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: were not wealthy people. Debbie's family were not wealthy people. 58 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: They were not members of any certain society. So it 59 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: goes cold and people start to pass. But once we 60 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: got the case and started looking at it, we thought 61 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: maybe those a chance, you know, people said, well, you'll 62 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: never get any DNA from this has been too old, etcetera, etcetera. 63 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: But we submitted an article of clothing and we got 64 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: a a DNA match. Mars. When you say clothing, what 65 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: clothing her body was found fully closed? Yeah, Mary had 66 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 1: a police department did a great job of preserving the evidence, 67 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: and we took on our clop clothing her underwear, along 68 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: with other parts of clothing we submitted for DNA, really 69 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: thinking this was a really really long shot, and we 70 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: got a profile. And I was actually on my way 71 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: out of town when the administrator of the cold case unit, 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: John Dawes, called me and let me know, Hey, guess 73 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: what we gotta profile. So that was the door wide 74 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: open on this case. This is what happened, and correct 75 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Morris with Me is a very 76 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: well known crack detective in his jurisdiction. Detective Morris Nicks. 77 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: On a coal winner's night, nine year old Debbie Lynn 78 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: Randall steps out of the neighborhood laundry at and I've 79 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: been there. I remember, Morris, when our washing machine broke. 80 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: I guess my parents didn't have enough money to fix 81 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: the washing machine. I'm not really sure, but we started 82 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: using a laundry map. We would have to drive to 83 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: it because we lived down in the middle of nowhere, 84 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: and we drive to the laundry map. And it was 85 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: always always on a Sunday night. We would go to 86 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: church on Sunday night as well as the morning. So 87 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: we were wedging it in and I would go and 88 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: sit with the laundry during the afternoon at the laundry 89 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: mat and then switch it out and just the whole process. 90 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: So this little girl nine years old goes to do 91 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: the laundry, it's only a half a block away. As 92 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: she never makes it, she disappears. There's that spill box 93 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: of laundry to charge it just across the street from 94 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: her home. Now, over the next week, Cobb County launches 95 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: an extensive search to find her her body. Debbie's body 96 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: was found sixteen days later, but even now, over forty 97 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: years later, the mystery of who killed Debbie Randall, a 98 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: nine year old little girl trying to do family laundry 99 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: for her mom, is still unsolved. And with me veteran 100 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: detective Morris Nicks, I want to thank our podcast sponsor today. 101 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 1: It's Blue Apron and I first heard about Blue Apron 102 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: from my son who is nine years old. He had 103 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: seen it online or somewhere, and what it is is 104 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: a fresh food home delivery, but you cook it. It's 105 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: all fresh ingredients. And when we tried it for the 106 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: first time, the twins opened up the box. They loved it, 107 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: and then they helped me cook it because it was 108 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of like our project. It was fresh broccoli, fetaccini, noodles, chicken, 109 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: and all the makings to make a delicious meal and 110 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: they clean their plates. Now here's the thing about Blue Apron. 111 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: Not only are they sponsoring our podcast and our efforts 112 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: to solve the murder of Debbie Randall, a nine year 113 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: old little girl, but they give working moms and dads 114 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: away to make a home cooked meal. 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Where was Debbie's 125 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: body found? Detective Debbie's body was found off of Polish 126 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: Ferry Road, which is now a empty restaurant. I believe 127 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: it was a Houston's restaurant, about twenty off the road. 128 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: I managed to find the individual who actually found her body. Uh. 129 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: He was a student at Southern Tech and he volunteered 130 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: as a group to look for her body. Um. He's 131 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: now retired engineer, and so being an engineer, he's very 132 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: good with measurements distances. I met him, we went over 133 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: there and he said women about Okay, wait a minute, 134 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: I want to understand something. When you say her body 135 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: was found off powers Ferry Road. A couple of quick questions. 136 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: One how far away from the laundry mat Once from 137 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: the laundry map it is, I'm gonna say about eight 138 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: miles nine miles. Wow. But so that was somebody that 139 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: got her in a car, correct, But we don't think 140 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: that's the place of death. Okay, so that was just 141 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: a dumping ground. And I assumed that she was assaulted 142 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: because you got DNA for underwear. It was brutal. Yes, 143 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: she was. She was sexually assaulted. Awful. So somebody got 144 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: her in a car. She was probably raped, sex assaulted 145 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: in the car and killed in the car, is my guests, 146 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: and then dumped there an eight mile distance. So it's 147 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: somebody that I guess knew the area. And at the 148 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: time before it was a Houston's restaurant. What was it wooded? 149 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: It was wooded at the time. Yeah, it was rather remote. 150 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: And who found the body? Detective who found I don't 151 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: need a name, but was it like a construction worker 152 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: or a hiker? What? He was a student at Southern 153 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: Tech and he in his fraternity brothers volunteered to do 154 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: a group search. He discovered the body. I managed to 155 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: locate him and he now retired engineer, and he took 156 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: me over there and he walked to the parking lot, 157 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: went straight to the spot and he said, well, then 158 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: about ten ft eight ft this is where she was at. 159 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: He said, I've gone buy that location over the years, 160 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: and of course it's just in my mind. We believe 161 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: Nancy that she was abducted from laundromatt she was taken 162 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: to another location for the crime code, then she was 163 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: redressed and her body was dumped in the woods. Okay, 164 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: you know what. The whole thing is sick, but the 165 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: redressing part is super sick. So let me understand something. 166 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: She is raped in one location you think not, the car, redressed, 167 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: and then dumped found by a college student who, along 168 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: with other people, had volunteered to search. And you find 169 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: him years later, and he's now a retired engineer. Correct, man, 170 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: that's a heck of a story. Now he obviously sleep. 171 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: I'm always suspicious of whoever finds the body, so I 172 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: assume that you've ruled him out. Yes, yes, uh, he 173 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: was in the group. Actually, um, they had spread out 174 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: along the road and he just by happenstance, had wandered 175 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: up upon her and he did not go actually down 176 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: to the body because it's unnerved him. And he has 177 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: been very beneficial in some of his descriptions. But we 178 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: think that possibly she was assaulted at a very close 179 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: place to where her body was found. Why do you 180 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: say that or can you tell me? I can tell 181 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: you that we had some evidence that was gathered in 182 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: processed by the FBI UM back in the day that 183 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: leads us to a specific location that I don't want 184 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: to disclose at the moment. Okay, So without you telling me, 185 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: I'll just clue in our listeners, who you know, they 186 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: know as much as I do, now, Detective Nix, because 187 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: everybody's legal eagles, and they are very familiar with technology. 188 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: So I'm guessing, as an educated guest, that they found 189 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: fibers such as carpet fibers on her back or her body. 190 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: They found um, some type of a synthetic floor covering. Um, 191 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, that's how. I don't know if you remember this, 192 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: Detective Nixt. It was before my time, but I found 193 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: out pretty quickly. You know. I prosecuted in Fulton d 194 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: A's office with your with Vick Reynolds, you know the now. 195 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: In fact, you can go ahead and tell him this 196 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: that I claim I trained him and for him to 197 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,479 Speaker 1: never forget the goatman. Okay, the goatman. As I digress. 198 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: So I had a huge calendar, you know, and front 199 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: of an awesome judge, Luther Albertson. He was the oldest 200 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: judge in the courthouse, and he wanted to keep the 201 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: lowest jail count. Uh. In other words, his courtroom had 202 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: the fewest people in jail on their calendar because we 203 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: would try so many cases, and he wanted to prove 204 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: he was still fit as a fiddle, and he was. 205 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: So Vic came to the office after me and he 206 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: rotated into my courtroom. I took a couple of murders 207 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: and gave him, you know, here, take everything else, and 208 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: he did. And one of them was the goatman. And 209 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: what I mean by that was this old guy. God 210 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: bless him. He smelled like a goat. He smelled awful, 211 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: and he was the victim. Okay, I don't know where 212 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: the last time this guy took about old Vic. Vic 213 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: had to try the case, okay, because I was getting 214 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: ready on. I guess a murder and a rape and 215 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: a dope dealer, and so I didn't even know what 216 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: was in the file to the here he's the one. 217 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: Here's the ones that have to go. Just pick one 218 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: and go. Well, that's the one he ended up with. 219 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: I guess the others played out. I don't know what 220 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: happened to them to try. So he gets the goatman, 221 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: who I believe could walk, but like being wheeled around 222 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: in a in a wheelchair. So he gets the goatman 223 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: up on the stand. Okay, and the goat man he 224 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: stopped too high Haven and Vic was questioning him and 225 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: he said, okay, sir, do you see the man that 226 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: stabbed you the day of the incident. Well, the goatman 227 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: started looking around and he started looking over at the 228 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: jury like maybe it was one of the gerards. And 229 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, dear Lord, no, please don't let him. 230 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: And I mean we had the guy, you know, did 231 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: red handed. I mean he had the stabbing, he had 232 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: the knife with him, there was still blood on the knife. 233 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: He had the knife for Pete's sake, the perp did. 234 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: So VIC had to get the guy back of the 235 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: wheelchair and take him straight up to the defendant, across 236 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: the able from the defendant, and for a moment we 237 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: thought he was going to identify the defense attorney. But 238 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: he looked and he looked and he looked, and finally 239 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: he identified the defendant. I'm like, oh, dear Lord, I 240 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: haven't but every time I see Vic, which I don't 241 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: see him a lot now, but I say, you remember 242 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: the goat man, and I just die laughing. Now he 243 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: doesn't think it's as funny as I do. But anyway, 244 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: whenever I think of Vick Reynolds, you know, he has 245 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: all these very important conferences and press releases, and he's 246 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: an awesome trial lawyer, but I always think of the 247 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: goat man. I digressed for a moment with fond memories 248 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: of Vick Reynolds in my courtroom. Okay, I want to 249 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: get back to Debbie, because you know, I'm just thinking 250 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: about you know, Debbie was just in the third grade, 251 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: Detective Nicks. You know what grade my children are in, right, 252 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: third grade? And when I think of how defenseless both 253 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: of them are and so trusting. Now Debbie third grader 254 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: at Pine Forest Elementary, Well, I'm trying to figure out 255 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: she was going to uh marry at a place duds 256 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: and SuDS co want laundry. Now did she make it 257 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: to the laundry? Yeah? She she asked me. This was 258 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: a gathering place for the little girls in the area. Unfortunately, 259 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: that was about the only place they had, and Debbie 260 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: lived pretty much just across the street. A lot of 261 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: people said, well, how could you let a little girl 262 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: goes there by herself, But they have to understand that 263 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: they usually were with someone. It was about seventy five 264 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: ft from where she lived, and it was a gathering 265 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: place where where little girls would they would trade doll clothes. 266 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: The manager um of the laundromat would she made doll 267 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: close for him and it was just a place where 268 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: they would get together. And she was just a vood 269 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: It sounds like in my world when I was little. 270 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: The corner store it was also called the Pep Station, 271 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: and we had to actually ride our bikes like two 272 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: miles to get there. Now, my mother would have done 273 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: a back flip if she had known. During the summer, 274 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: we would get on our bikes and ride to the 275 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: Pep Station, which was a gas station, but they also 276 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: sold candy bars and you know, crackers, this same thing, 277 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: you know. We would all get on a bike and 278 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: go there. We wouldn't get on the main roads, would 279 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: take back roads and trails and end up behind the 280 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: Pep station and we would buy a candy bar and 281 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: then bike all the way back home when we thought 282 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: we had really done something. So this little girl goes 283 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: it's about seven pm. She goes with a local laundry. 284 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: She's given two bucks and while she was putting the 285 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: clothes into the washing machine, her stepfather left and I mean, 286 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: I've read that her stepfather, Robert Hooker, took her are 287 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: there and the laundry amount of tendant states Debbie left 288 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: about thirty minutes later with a box of detergent and 289 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: that was found near a car across the street from 290 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: her home. You're telling me it's some one like seventy right. 291 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: I also have reports that residents saw a dark pickup 292 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: truck around that time. I have one witness who said 293 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: that she went into the laundromat and she mentioned to 294 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: her older sister, there's a truck out there that I'm 295 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: not familiar with. In her older sister basins that will 296 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: mind her own business and help me pull close, and 297 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: so she did. And I talked to another witness that 298 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: said I spoke to Debbie right when she got ready 299 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: to leave. And Debbie had a habit of she would 300 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: collect the unused soap powders and she would take him 301 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: home to her mom. And she um was getting had 302 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: to leave, and she said, I saw Debbie go out 303 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: the door, and she said, and I was going to 304 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: go home with her, And again my older sister said, 305 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: and you're not going anywhere. You gotta help me fe close. 306 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: And she believes and I have come to believe that 307 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: very possibly Debbie knew her abductor. I think Debbie started 308 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: across the street. I think that he probably called out 309 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: to her. She turned around, walked back, and that's when 310 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: she was abducted. Com Corney pulled out all the stops. 311 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: They did everything. People were assigned to the to the case. 312 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: The wooded areas and vacant residences near Marietta Place were 313 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: searched by civil defense workers and police. Dixie Alert, which 314 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: is a group of hand radio operators, offered to handle 315 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: any contact with a kidnapper. Concerned Citizens Committee met They 316 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: created an effort called Opera Asian Debbie. Offers of assistance 317 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: flooded in the Helicopters from Dobbin's Air Force Base were 318 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: used in the search. I mean it goes on and 319 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: on and on trying to find Debbie. And then around 320 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: five o'clock in the afternoon on a Saturday, January, her 321 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: body was found by a group of Southern Czech students. 322 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: As Detective Knicks has just told us, her body was 323 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: found about a hundred and fifty ft north of Paris 324 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: Ferry Road, near Wendy Hill, which is in Marietta there 325 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: were evident there was evidence, and there were clues near 326 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: her body, but as of today, still no resolution. So 327 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: tell me about this DNA profile, Detective Knicks. Yeah, when 328 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: we got this, we thought our chanson were slimming none 329 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: And when we looked at it, we knew that that 330 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: Mary still had the evidence. We got married out to 331 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: pull of the evident force and we sent it to 332 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: the lab and we got a profile. And we know 333 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: from this profile that she was only assaulted by one individual. 334 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: Uh now, she may have been abducted by more than one, 335 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: but she was assaulted by one um and it just 336 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: shot a whole new breadth fresh air into this case. Now, 337 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: I thought when we initially got the profile, I really 338 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: thought we would get a hit on CODIS and which 339 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: is the national database. We did not, But we also 340 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: know that prior to the nineties that no, there was 341 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: no codas, nobody who was entered into CODIS. So I 342 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: think this is a very doable case. It's obviously a 343 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: long shot, but I do think that we have a chance. 344 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: And as long as we have a chance, we're gonna 345 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: keep working on it. And actually I want to talk 346 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: about just a second about our cold case unit we 347 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: were started by Bick Reynolds talked to me two years ago, 348 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: and all the cases we worked, we worked as a unit. 349 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: We worked as a team. So for every little bit 350 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: I've done, they've done more than I have. And I'm 351 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: very proud to be associated with this group. They're just very, 352 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: very dedicated, hard working individuals. But we do have a 353 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: chance in this case, and we're not gonna let go 354 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: of it. And any time we get a case, we 355 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: we work it hard. Now and answer, you know, there 356 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: are three things that drive a cold case. Time, money, 357 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: and publicity. Those are the three things that drive a 358 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: cold case, and you have to have all three. And 359 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: talking about that shirt for Debbie, I have told people, 360 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: and I really feel this way that that was probably 361 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: Mariatta's finest moment in the list of all the tragedy 362 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: and absolute heartbreak, fear. People were people scared, and people 363 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: were angry, But at that moment, Cobb, counting, the city 364 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: of Marriotta really came together, and uh, I think we 365 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: should all be proud of what what they tried to do. Detective, 366 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: are you using familial DNA to find the relatives of 367 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: the killer? Is that something that you're able to do 368 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: in Cobb County. We had a federal grant which gave 369 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: us the money and we use a lab in Utah. 370 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: But our grant has since expired and we're hoping to 371 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: get it renewed and and if we do, then we 372 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: can continue our testing. We've got two or three cases 373 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: actually that I think we're very close up, and a 374 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: couple of them, I think we're real close and you're 375 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: able to use the kind of DNA that would identify 376 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: if of their relatives perhaps had been arrested at some 377 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: point and submitted DNA. Yes, we have eliminated the family 378 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: through DNA tested. Everybody was cooperative. We've eliminated the obvious people. 379 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: You know, it was rumored for years that possibly her 380 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: stepfather one of those who'd been above, but they were 381 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: not and they've all been cooperative and we've eliminated them 382 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: through DNA. Did have I got a question for you, 383 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: Why has this case? Why does this case stick with you? 384 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's your personal mission to solve this case 385 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: of Debbie Randall, why she deserved justice, And that's really 386 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: after every all the rhetoric, that's what it comes down 387 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: to you. This was a very innocent, normal, little girl, 388 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: and it just got home once once I saw her 389 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: photographs and I talked to her family. Her mom is 390 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: in very bad health. She still living um and this 391 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: is her one player is that she will know, whether 392 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,239 Speaker 1: they're dead or alive, that she will know who did this. 393 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: And you can't help but be touched and whoever did this? 394 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: You know, how do you describe these people? You know, 395 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: we've all heard the adjectives, but really, how do you 396 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: describe an individual that does this to seventy pound little girl. 397 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: Another issue, Detective Nixt is he did this and got 398 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: away with it so far, you know he's done it again. 399 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: There's no way that he didn't do it again, either 400 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: raped or killed. And I absolutely agree. And perhaps he 401 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: left the state. Perhaps he was in the military and 402 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: at Dobbin's Air Base. We don't know. We could all speculate, 403 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: but we now have a DNA profile and and we're 404 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: gonna push every suspect that we can push every person 405 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: of interest until we're satisfied one way or the other. 406 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: And I think that's just what that's what we have 407 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: to do, and that's what we're going to do. Well 408 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 1: with me today is really a renowned detective in his jurisdiction, 409 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: Detective Morris Nicks, and we were talking about a nine 410 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: year old little girl that was brutally assaulted and murdered, 411 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: her body left out in a wooded area, her parents, 412 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: her mom still looking for answers. This is a cold case, 413 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: but I pray to God it heats up after today. Again, 414 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: thank you to Blue Apron who makes delicious, easy and 415 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: affordable meals possible, the ingredients delivered to your door. And 416 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: when I say affordable, I mean it. And you can 417 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: have that moment guy, do or I try to anyway 418 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: where we sit down at the end of the day 419 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: around the table and we thank God for our blessings 420 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: and we have a great meal and we talk about 421 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: the day and you know what, I look forward to 422 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: that moment all day long. It's my favorite moment of 423 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: the day. We're all together, and of course you don't 424 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: have to have an elaborate meal, but it's just one 425 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: of those memories. Everybody's sitting down together as a family 426 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: and it's hard to do. The children have soccer, they 427 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: have piano, they have this. I gotta work the book, Deadline, 428 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: Hallmark movie boy, working all the time, but that moment 429 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: is the moment that makes it all worth it is 430 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: when we're all together as a family, and I want 431 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: to thank Blue Apron for making that possible for me 432 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: and so many others and making it affordable. Go to 433 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: blue Apron dot com slash Nancy Grace for another discount. 434 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: I really want to thank Detective Morris Knicks for being 435 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: with us from Cobb County Coal Case. It's a real 436 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: pleasure and really an honor to talk to a seasoned veteran. 437 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: He was never given up the fight to solve cases, 438 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: to seek justice, and in this case, solve the case 439 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: of little Debbie Debbie Randall. If you have information, please 440 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: call seven seven zero five two eight three zero three 441 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: two repeat seven seven zero five two eight three zero 442 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: three two, or go to crime online dot com where 443 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: we have a tip number and an email in tip address. 444 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: Please help us Allan, thank you for being with us 445 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: as always with me as you are every day. Detective 446 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: Nick's honored and numbered friend, NaN's Grace signing off from 447 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you, friend,