Speaker 1: Episode three h five Intentional strategies to increase your income
Speaker 1: with Rich Jones. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where
Speaker 1: you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live your.
Speaker 2: Life here your hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Jen, my name is Jell.
Speaker 1: And in the lead up to my eventual maternity leave,
Speaker 1: we have another summit interview for you, and this was
Speaker 1: personally my favorite.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have to agree it was the longest.
Speaker 1: If you were with us at our Future of Frugal
Speaker 1: summit in twenty twenty one, then you may have heard
Speaker 1: this one. If not, then you have never heard this
Speaker 1: interview before. And that's a sh shame because Rich Jones,
Speaker 1: he is a good friend of ours. He works for Google,
Speaker 1: and he is a master at just strategizing on how
Speaker 1: to either work up the ladder where you are, increase
Speaker 1: your income go elsewhere. Is a very good interview.
Speaker 2: I still reference this interview and some of my takeaways.
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about it honestly in other podcasts,
Speaker 2: but even in my own personal conversations with people. He
Speaker 2: gives such great tips and insights that I have carried
Speaker 2: with me over the last two years, so I'm really
Speaker 2: excited to allow this interview to live on more fully.
Speaker 2: It's just been hidden in our computers since the summit,
Speaker 2: and now to be able to have it be a
Speaker 2: part of our playlist is so excellent and we all
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 1: Yes, but first, this episode has brought to you by
Speaker 1: having the receipts, not the tiny book in your purse
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Speaker 2: Ooh, what a great tie in. So now before we
Speaker 2: get into it, though, she'll be you a Friday, I do.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited for you all, But if you want
Speaker 2: other episodes to queue up, you know we've got more
Speaker 2: because we're at episode three oh five, But check out
Speaker 2: episode two seventy eight, which is Frugal part of our
Speaker 2: Frugal Side Hustle series where we talk with someone from Salesforce.
Speaker 2: Kind of gives an overview of that opportunity if you
Speaker 2: are looking to increase your income. That's a great one
Speaker 2: to check out. Also, episode two sixty three, how to
Speaker 2: Negotiate a higher salary in any Field with Mandy Woodruff
Speaker 2: Santos really really another excellent, excellent one.
Speaker 1: I would say these two pair best together. Yes to
Speaker 1: sixty three with Mandy and then three oh five with Rich,
Speaker 1: these are really good ones to play back.
Speaker 2: Many challenged me in some of my solidified belief systems
Speaker 2: about who a salary increases are available to and who
Speaker 2: they're not, and she just says everybody. They're available to everybody.
Speaker 2: So even if you're a teacher, even if you're a
Speaker 2: social worker, check that one out. It's challenging in a
Speaker 2: really good way. Episode two sixty three. But for right now,
Speaker 2: we got Rich Jones.
Speaker 1: Yes he is again a good friend host of the
Speaker 1: Mental Wealth Show, and we're excited to show him off
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 3: Rich, Thank you so much for joining us on the
Speaker 3: Future of Frugal Summit.
Speaker 2: We're excited to have you.
Speaker 4: I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 2: So excited to talk about this, and I think it's
Speaker 2: applicable to pretty much everyone that is an adult or
Speaker 2: heading towards adulthood. So hopefully, Yeah, this is great.
Speaker 4: I mean, at some point it's got to be applicable
Speaker 4: unless you never have to work, and then in general,
Speaker 4: people always have to negotiate. There's always something to negotiate for,
Speaker 4: and there's always a reason to kind of see the
Speaker 4: value and the worth of what you do. That's something
Speaker 4: that you should always have in mind. So yeah, it
Speaker 4: does apply to everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed. So rich For those who don't know about
Speaker 3: you and paychecks and balances, tell us a little bit
Speaker 3: about your background and your experience hiring and negotiating.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so day, I work at Google in diversity, equity
Speaker 4: and Inclusion. I've been in this role that I'm in
Speaker 4: now for about a month and a half and it
Speaker 4: kind of speaks to some of the work that I've
Speaker 4: done over the past years in terms of being able
Speaker 4: to make career pivots. Prior to this role, the past
Speaker 4: decade of my career, maybe even a little bit more
Speaker 4: than that was spent working in the staffing and recruiting world.
Speaker 4: We're both as a headhunter for a staffing agency and
Speaker 4: then as an in house or internal recruiter for large
Speaker 4: corporate companies and even smaller tech startups. So I've been
Speaker 4: in staffing recruiting HR really since twenty ten, and I've
Speaker 4: been building things online since two thousand and eight, including
Speaker 4: a couple of award winning blogs that people don't know about.
Speaker 4: That's what some of these awards are in the background.
Speaker 4: And then I started podcasting in twenty thirteen because I
Speaker 4: was trying to find content that spoke to me, and
Speaker 4: a lot of the personal finance content at the time
Speaker 4: it felt like it was either boring or I saw
Speaker 4: the same face of the older white gent I saw
Speaker 4: the same face of the older white gentleman in a suit,
Speaker 4: and that was kind of the face of personal finance
Speaker 4: at the time in twenty thirteen, and so I really
Speaker 4: wanted to create what I couldn't find, and that kind
Speaker 4: of led to the first podcast. But that podcast talked
Speaker 4: about everything under the sun. And then in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 4: we did the whole niche thing down and rebranded, and
Speaker 4: that's when paychecks and balances, was officially bored, and so
Speaker 4: getting ready to start a new season of the podcast,
Speaker 4: which is pretty awesome, have a lot of exciting guests
Speaker 4: that are lined up, and yeah, really love sharing my
Speaker 4: experience with working in the professional world, but also how
Speaker 4: good career decisions lead to good financial outcomes. So how
Speaker 4: do we bridge the gap between the conversations that are
Speaker 4: having around money and also the conversations that are happening
Speaker 4: around work.
Speaker 2: You are doing so much, You're like by day much
Speaker 2: by afternoon and by evening.
Speaker 4: It's a lot. And it is something that I had
Speaker 4: to step back from and create more space for myself
Speaker 4: because previously I was a weekly podcaster and then I
Speaker 4: went to bi weekly in September until basically around the
Speaker 4: time that we're recording this, and I'm getting ready to
Speaker 4: go back to a weekly schedule. And I just mentioned
Speaker 4: that because when I went to bi weekly, it was
Speaker 4: to create space and understand like, Okay, now I'm doing
Speaker 4: this alone. Do I have enough time for this? Am
Speaker 4: I giving myself space to recharge? Am I able to
Speaker 4: do the level of research and thorough pre show prep
Speaker 4: to ensure that I do each guest justice? Oh that
Speaker 4: was a hard couple of words together. So it's going
Speaker 4: to be more work going forward. But I think what's
Speaker 4: also been helpful is hiring a team and being in
Speaker 4: a place with the business side of things to where
Speaker 4: I can say I don't need to be up all night.
Speaker 4: I could afford to hire someone to do some of
Speaker 4: these tasks, especially when I'm at work during the day,
Speaker 4: which is really difficult and challenging, and so I've been
Speaker 4: fortunate enough to get to a place where I can
Speaker 4: afford to pay a few people to help out. So
Speaker 4: three freelancers to virtual assistants, and I'll probably be hiring
Speaker 4: more people in the next few months.
Speaker 5: Wow, you are an inspiration to me in hiring for sure,
Speaker 5: which is fitting given the conversation that we're going to have,
Speaker 5: because even something like writing the job description for a
Speaker 5: freelance writer, like most people wouldn't enjoy that type of stuff,
Speaker 5: but since it's writing my wheelhouse, I've written tons of
Speaker 5: job descriptions.
Speaker 4: I know how to make them engaging. I know exactly
Speaker 4: what I want. It's kind of like getting to practice
Speaker 4: some of my day job responsibilities in the side hustle
Speaker 4: world and vice versa. But yeah, yeah, the hiring is Oh,
Speaker 4: I made my life so much better just getting a
Speaker 4: few more folks on board to help with the writing,
Speaker 4: because y'all know, I mean, it's a lot of work
Speaker 4: when you're creating content, plus you're running the business, so
Speaker 4: you know, you're writing, you're podcasting, you're you're videoing your
Speaker 4: tiktoking your YouTube and your story and you're doing kids, family,
Speaker 4: all these other things that are going on. It's really difficult,
Speaker 4: and I find sometimes the only way to be able
Speaker 4: to manage it all is to contract some of that out,
Speaker 4: even hiring a house cleaner. Some people think of house
Speaker 4: cleaners as like this, like bougie thing. I'm like, no,
Speaker 4: this saves hours per week. Same thing with meal delivery services,
Speaker 4: like oh, that's like fans. No, this is getting me
Speaker 4: time back. So I will spend a little money in
Speaker 4: interest of getting back time because frugality for me is
Speaker 4: spending less on the things I don't care about and
Speaker 4: more on the things that are important to me.
Speaker 2: So I think I just defined it. We one hundred
Speaker 2: percent I agree with that, and we're really thrilled to
Speaker 2: be having this conversation with you about hiring negotiating salaries
Speaker 2: because I think all of this does converge, especially for
Speaker 2: those with busy schedules, which I don't think I know
Speaker 2: anybody who is not busy or wouldn't describe themselves in
Speaker 2: that way. And so this is a really important key
Speaker 2: factor to that is making sure that you are getting
Speaker 2: the most you can out of the time that you have.
Speaker 2: And thrilled to hear rich about your role in looking
Speaker 2: at diversity, equity and inclusion. I think that that absolutely
Speaker 2: dies into what we're talking about here and the people
Speaker 2: who are experiencing barriers to increasing salary or negotiating those pieces,
Speaker 2: whether internally or externally, And so thrilled to hear your
Speaker 2: perspective on this today, and for starters, I think we're
Speaker 2: curious to hear from your own perspective and experience what
Speaker 2: you see when it comes to resumes, interviewing, negotiating salaries.
Speaker 2: Is there a difference between men and women. We can
Speaker 2: even talk about culturally too, however you want to angle
Speaker 2: that one. But curious what you even see just as
Speaker 2: far as barriers in these different categories A.
Speaker 4: Lot, I just say a lot. It's particularly interesting because
Speaker 4: the world that I'm in now, it's focused on retention
Speaker 4: and progression. So folks who are at a crossroad, they
Speaker 4: might be struggling with the challenge internally, they might have
Speaker 4: an issue with their manager, and a lot of that
Speaker 4: is coaching and supporting them through the next step of
Speaker 4: their journey. And the reason that I said a lot
Speaker 4: and this isn't just specific to where I work, but
Speaker 4: in general, so one, there's just a lot of bad
Speaker 4: managers that are out there. In general, I think that
Speaker 4: there are a lot of people who become managers just
Speaker 4: as a step along their career path. They actually don't
Speaker 4: have a desire to manage people. They just see that
Speaker 4: as a box that they need to check to get
Speaker 4: into whatever leadership position it is that they ultimately want
Speaker 4: to be in. And as a result, those people who
Speaker 4: they actually manage suffer because maybe this person doesn't have
Speaker 4: a high emotional intelligence, Maybe this person doesn't know how
Speaker 4: to help somebody identify their professional goals. I don't expect
Speaker 4: a manager at work to be able to help you
Speaker 4: define your personal values, but I do believe a manager
Speaker 4: should be able to coach and should be able to
Speaker 4: get you to think and have some of these conversations
Speaker 4: where you arrive at details that are critically important to you.
Speaker 4: I don't think most folks actually do the work of
Speaker 4: sitting down and defining their values. And so what I
Speaker 4: see in the workplace is a lot of bad management.
Speaker 4: And then I say that even from having had multiple
Speaker 4: managers over the course of my career, and I'd like
Speaker 4: to think that I've been a good manager, but no,
Speaker 4: I have been a good manager. Darned. People have told
Speaker 4: me enough that I have been a good manager. And
Speaker 4: what makes it tricky with men and women is that
Speaker 4: corporate America, it's a very just like vocal culture, it's
Speaker 4: very friendly to extroverts, where the louder you are, you know,
Speaker 4: the whole what's that's saying, like the squeaky wheel gets
Speaker 4: degrees or whatever. And what's interesting when it comes to
Speaker 4: getting raises and promotions at work, that requires you to
Speaker 4: advocate for yourself at a certain level, because it is
Speaker 4: not your manager's job to track your accomplishments. It is
Speaker 4: your own. And I think what happens a lot of
Speaker 4: times is people expect that their manager is keeping track
Speaker 4: of everything that they've done throughout the year, and then
Speaker 4: when it comes time for a performance review conversation and
Speaker 4: the rating isn't where they thought it would be. They're surprised,
Speaker 4: and now they're upset with their manager, and now they
Speaker 4: have all of these questions. But the manager has a
Speaker 4: million things going on in their lives. A manager has
Speaker 4: all these meetings and other responsibilities. And I've noticed that
Speaker 4: when it comes to advocating for self that it does
Speaker 4: require I'd say that it does require a bit moreof
Speaker 4: for women. And I do think that there are some
Speaker 4: like gender and social dynamics that I think are at
Speaker 4: play there where sometimes people don't want to come up
Speaker 4: is come off as being like two opinionated, or or
Speaker 4: come off as being difficult in some of those stereotypes
Speaker 4: that have traditionally been at least associated with women in
Speaker 4: the workplace, like oh, she's uh, what's the what's the
Speaker 4: phrase they always say about women who have strong opinions.
Speaker 4: It's like one of those coded words like oh, she's.
Speaker 2: Uh, opinionated is definitely one they call little girls bossy.
Speaker 4: Difficult, yeah yep, yeah, so so stuff like that and uh.
Speaker 4: And the way that that shows off shows up in
Speaker 4: the workplace is you get people who don't speak up
Speaker 4: about their accomplishments. They think that just doing their work
Speaker 4: and getting it done will speak for itself, whereas uh,
Speaker 4: in many cases it actually requires you to speak up
Speaker 4: and advocate and say, hey, here's what I'm working on,
Speaker 4: be more vocal in meetings, things like things like that.
Speaker 4: But then it also requires you to actually like write
Speaker 4: down what you're doing throughout the year so that when
Speaker 4: it comes time for these performance review conversations, you've already
Speaker 4: got the receipts. And I have found that that men,
Speaker 4: for whatever reasons, tend to be more frequent at advocating
Speaker 4: for themselves and keeping track of everything. I'm sure there's
Speaker 4: some privileged stuff that's within there as well, whereas women
Speaker 4: aren't as quick to advocate. And also I found that
Speaker 4: women and even underrepresented minority groups will look at a
Speaker 4: they'll look at a job description and they will self
Speaker 4: select and not apply for certain roles because they don't
Speaker 4: have every skill, whereas other groups will see that they
Speaker 4: don't have everything and apply anyway. So sometimes based on
Speaker 4: gender and other factors, people actually block their own blessings
Speaker 4: because they'll they'll look and say I don't have everything
Speaker 4: when they should have just applied. And there has been
Speaker 4: research to show that women will often filter themselves out
Speaker 4: more than men who will just go full steam ahead
Speaker 4: and then apply for the same role.
Speaker 2: My husband is head of a department at his work,
Speaker 2: and he's hiring right now, and he's going through something
Speaker 2: like three hundred applications, and he says, to an extreme percentage,
Speaker 2: men are asking for so much more money than the
Speaker 2: women are asking for even at the even at the
Speaker 2: start of the application process. And so I think even
Speaker 2: some of what you're saying is the internal things that
Speaker 2: are happening inside of some of our minds, whether it's
Speaker 2: an introverted extroverted thing, or it's a minority group thing,
Speaker 2: or it's a gender thing like and it's probably it's
Speaker 2: probably all of it collectively. It's not like one thing
Speaker 2: that we can hang our hat on and say that's it.
Speaker 2: But there are some of these barriers that happen just
Speaker 2: inside of our head that say, no, that's not for me.
Speaker 2: And you even alluded to this rich like personal finance
Speaker 2: looked like a well dressed white man, and so just that,
Speaker 2: like the imagery that comes to mind already kind of
Speaker 2: predisposes us to maybe not negotiating or not thinking that
Speaker 2: I should keep a record of all the good things
Speaker 2: that I've done and present it to somebody like I
Speaker 2: get a little sweaty thinking about that. Honestly, it's I.
Speaker 4: Mean, it sounds awkward and like weird, but for me
Speaker 4: even keeping track of just even conversations that I have
Speaker 4: with people throughout the week. So anytime someone gives me
Speaker 4: positive feedback at work, I mean not in passing. If
Speaker 4: I'm walking down the hall and someone's like, hey, Rich,
Speaker 4: nice shoes, I'm I'm not gonna go write that down
Speaker 4: like Tony said, I got nice shoes. But if I
Speaker 4: helped deliver on a project, if somebody was in a
Speaker 4: pinch and I helped them with something and they sent
Speaker 4: me a note afterwards and said, Rich really appreciated your help.
Speaker 4: I keep all of that because I mean not so
Speaker 4: not just so I can look at it and feel
Speaker 4: good about myself, though I think that's important too. Not
Speaker 4: sure if you all ever talked about like encouragement jars
Speaker 4: where you keep the positive feedback that you get so
Speaker 4: that when you're in a period where times do feel
Speaker 4: really down and difficult, you can kind of refer to
Speaker 4: that and to get you back into a good mental place.
Speaker 2: But just keeping record of the good things Yeah, it
Speaker 2: made me nervous to think about that. But you're saying
Speaker 2: it's a good thing to do, not only for ourselves
Speaker 2: for encouragement, but also what that can how we can
Speaker 2: utilize that to present and I'm assuming you're going in
Speaker 2: the direction of negotiating and increasing your salary.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So one thing that I do have to work on,
Speaker 4: because you all mention how busy I am, is my
Speaker 4: sleep because I haven't been getting the right amount of
Speaker 4: sleep for years and now it's turning into like that
Speaker 4: short term memory thing that just happen where I'll like
Speaker 4: lose something. So that is one of those projects that
Speaker 4: I'm that have them working on long term.
Speaker 2: But as far alone Wrench, well, we've all been there.
Speaker 4: I know I'll be in the kitchen at the refrigerator
Speaker 4: like why am I here? But as as far as
Speaker 4: the tracking, I keep that because when it comes performance
Speaker 4: review season, it's not just my manager. We also need
Speaker 4: to get collect feedback from our peers, and so I
Speaker 4: want to have a list of all of the people
Speaker 4: that I had a positive interaction with so that when
Speaker 4: I need to select peer review, I can go through
Speaker 4: and say, Okay, who are the people that I've helped out,
Speaker 4: what's the level of meaningfulness impact what level of seniority.
Speaker 4: I would love to have some feedback from folks who
Speaker 4: are more senior than myself as opposed to just having
Speaker 4: feedback from folks who are at my level and below.
Speaker 4: And so little simple things even if a director reaches
Speaker 4: out and asks me a question, and they ask me
Speaker 4: if I can take care of something, even if it's
Speaker 4: just something I spend an hour on, I keep track
Speaker 4: of that because at the point they're reaching out to
Speaker 4: me to work on it, I know that they're in
Speaker 4: a pinch, and it's just little things like that add
Speaker 4: up over time. And I don't know that we're also
Speaker 4: thoughtful about Not that I am, because I certainly was
Speaker 4: not for many years. But I don't know if we're
Speaker 4: all as thoughtful about keeping track of these little things
Speaker 4: that may seem insignificant that when you add them together
Speaker 4: and it's just like investing or anything else, it compounds,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And what like a great exercise to incorporate
Speaker 3: into your work week, like Friday at four pm when
Speaker 3: you're nobody's doing anything.
Speaker 4: At four pm, but go on.
Speaker 2: To go back through.
Speaker 3: The week and see like, okay, what did I accomplish,
Speaker 3: What's the best thing I accomplished this week? Who did
Speaker 3: I interact with? Like what happened this week? And taking
Speaker 3: an inventory every week. So yeah, when that does come,
Speaker 3: you can you have things to pick and choose because
Speaker 3: it is so easy to forget those things if you
Speaker 3: don't write them down, and then you don't have to
Speaker 3: feel like bossy or like boisterous when you're in your
Speaker 3: performance review. You can simply be like, Okay, let's let
Speaker 3: the data speak for itself. Let's let this list speak
Speaker 3: for itself, and it can kind of like solve some
Speaker 3: of those mental block barriers almost.
Speaker 4: Definitely, definitely, And it's a confident booster too when you
Speaker 4: look because I've had so many weeks. I think we've
Speaker 4: all had weeks where we get to the end of
Speaker 4: it and we're like, I don't feel like I accomplished
Speaker 4: anything this week. I'm sure we've all had that feeling.
Speaker 4: Then when you actually look at all the things you
Speaker 4: crossed off your to do list, maybe they weren't all
Speaker 4: these like grandios you know, like planning a conference or
Speaker 4: a summon. You know, they weren't all these grandiose things.
Speaker 4: But when you look you're like, Wow, I actually got
Speaker 4: like forty or fifty transactional task done this week. Yes,
Speaker 4: I don't love doing those things, but that's something and
Speaker 4: it even helps, like say you want to be able
Speaker 4: to have a conversation with your manager about expectations or
Speaker 4: even about how you're spending your time, being able to say, like, hey,
Speaker 4: I'm spending forty to fifty percent of my time on
Speaker 4: transactional task replying to email. I'd love to start working
Speaker 4: on projects that have a bit more exposure and a
Speaker 4: bit more scope. And so by scope, I just mean
Speaker 4: like the realm of impact and probably the level that
Speaker 4: you need to work across different teams in that particular organization.
Speaker 4: And you don't know any of that stuff if you
Speaker 4: don't write it down. I really do think that like
Speaker 4: that's the most key and foundational thing to negotiating, because
Speaker 4: if you're not confident, how can you negotiate? Uh. And
Speaker 4: so if you have all these receipts and you're getting
Speaker 4: ready to go into a performance review conversation, and by
Speaker 4: the way, I think you should be having this type
Speaker 4: of conversation with the manager every month to make sure
Speaker 4: that you're on the same page. So you don't end
Speaker 4: up in performance review season with surprises. But you should
Speaker 4: be happily in those conversations like sharing and when they
Speaker 4: say hey, like what's been going on, you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, just just plugging along, like no, say hey,
Speaker 4: things have been going well. I got some great feedback
Speaker 4: from this that because your manager may even start to
Speaker 4: ask you more questions and then next thing you know,
Speaker 4: they might say something like, oh, I didn't know you
Speaker 4: were so passionate about that. Wow, I didn't know that
Speaker 4: was a skill of yours. Do you want to work
Speaker 4: on this thing? So it's just important that you don't
Speaker 4: just wait for that one time of the year to
Speaker 4: have the conversation, that you're having that conversation throughout the
Speaker 4: year on a regular basis, whether it's weekly. I mean,
Speaker 4: you don't have to go look at what I did
Speaker 4: you know, every single day, but there should be a
Speaker 4: regular cadence where you're having career conversations with your manager,
Speaker 4: and if your manager is not scheduling that with you,
Speaker 4: it is your responsibility to find that time and on
Speaker 4: your career and drive that conversation with them.
Speaker 3: Absolutely such good advice. So we know now writing down
Speaker 3: performance stuff, writing down what we've done, like writing down
Speaker 3: what you do so that you can broaden your scope.
Speaker 3: Is there any other specific tips for someone who's looking
Speaker 3: right now to make more money at their current job.
Speaker 4: Yep. And this is difficult because there's small companies, medium companies,
Speaker 4: large companies, publicly traded companies, private companies, and they're subject
Speaker 4: to all sorts of regulation. And then another thing. I
Speaker 4: know it's not law in every state yet, but there
Speaker 4: are some states where employers, if you're interviewing for a role,
Speaker 4: they legally cannot ask you your salary. And as things
Speaker 4: like that continue to change, hopefully we get to a
Speaker 4: place where it's the same type of laws across the board.
Speaker 4: But that factor even within negotiating for external and I'll
Speaker 4: get to the internal piece, but even external, one thing
Speaker 4: I tell people is do not divulge your salary unless
Speaker 4: it's somehow required, because apparently there are some fields where
Speaker 4: you have to provide that information, or if you work
Speaker 4: for the government, it's public information. But if you can
Speaker 4: avoid divulging that upfront, let them speak first and come
Speaker 4: back to the end, fantastic. I think for internal it's a
Speaker 4: bit more challenging because, for example, where I work you
Speaker 4: can't just in the middle of a performance cycle say hey,
Speaker 4: I want to raise and just send a note to
Speaker 4: HR and ask for a raise. That the main opportunities
Speaker 4: are during that performance review conversation, and then also if
Speaker 4: you get a promotion, and then depending on the size
Speaker 4: of the company that you work at, maybe you can
Speaker 4: make some type of lateral move. And so that's what
Speaker 4: I've done for my last couple of jobs, where I
Speaker 4: maintained my level and I went from being a staffing
Speaker 4: lead to an internal communications and change management program manager,
Speaker 4: and then from I laddered again to move into the
Speaker 4: DEI world. And that doesn't necessarily correlate to a pay
Speaker 4: increase every time, but from a job satisfaction, mental real estate,
Speaker 4: mental wealth perspective, I think that there's a lot to
Speaker 4: that because I find even if I'm working more hours,
Speaker 4: that if I enjoy the work and it's something that
Speaker 4: I'm passionate and excited about, it doesn't drain away from
Speaker 4: my energy to still work on things outside of the
Speaker 4: office that are important to me. So the money part
Speaker 4: is super important. I do think when you're internal it's
Speaker 4: more challenging. The other best way to get an increase
Speaker 4: is to get an external offer and then come back
Speaker 4: and say, hey, I have this external offer. But that
Speaker 4: is a risky move because if you just go at
Speaker 4: some places, if you just go and start interviewing, they
Speaker 4: assume that you're no longer loyal and that you want
Speaker 4: to leave, and so you have to be comfortable accepting
Speaker 4: that risk. But I have seen people where if they
Speaker 4: are top performers, they go, especially after they've worked somewhere
Speaker 4: for a few years, because I think after about two
Speaker 4: years somewhere, if you don't like move or make a
Speaker 4: change your the de rate at which your pay is
Speaker 4: going up actually starts to decrease. Damnit, I just lost
Speaker 4: it again. Can y'all edit this? You'll do a jump
Speaker 4: cut on this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's a that's a forbe study. Whereas if
Speaker 3: you people who don't make some kind of move after
Speaker 3: two years can limit their salary potential by up to
Speaker 3: fifty percent over their lifetime.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's so that's a huge number. The other
Speaker 4: one was that the difference between negotiating an additional five
Speaker 4: thousand dollars at the beginning of your career over the
Speaker 4: course of your career works out to over half a
Speaker 4: million dollars that you've left on the table by not
Speaker 4: negotiating that that first five thousand. But when you're internal, yeah,
Speaker 4: there it is, and you get that external offer and
Speaker 4: you're a high performer, the company may say, crap, like
Speaker 4: we need to come up on this to be able
Speaker 4: to keep this person, or maybe it triggers them to
Speaker 4: look at all the pay equity internally, because what typically
Speaker 4: happens you stay in the same role for a few years.
Speaker 4: This has happened to me. You stay in the same
Speaker 4: role for a few years, You get little raises here
Speaker 4: and there, and it feels good. But then when you
Speaker 4: check the market and you start interviewing, and then you
Speaker 4: realize people are making twenty twenty five thirty percent more
Speaker 4: than you, that's when it's like, oh crap. So I
Speaker 4: have seen it work where you go out and interview
Speaker 4: elsewhere to get a sense of your market value. But
Speaker 4: you also need to be comfortable knowing that if you
Speaker 4: come back with the offer that the company may just say, well, okay,
Speaker 4: see you later.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's amazing that sometimes companies will choose to lose
Speaker 2: their employees over that, because I've also seen it happen
Speaker 2: so many times where an employee does walk away go
Speaker 2: somewhere else, and then the original company tries to get
Speaker 2: them back for yeah, what would have represented like a
Speaker 2: thirty percent increase sometimes, and that's been to Travis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my husband he left because of salary, and two
Speaker 3: years later they brought him back for more than he
Speaker 3: was making at the new job.
Speaker 4: It was Yeah, that's how it works. I mean, there
Speaker 4: are some people who believe that you should move around
Speaker 4: every two years. I don't personally subscribe to that philosophy.
Speaker 4: I understand it, and I get the data behind it,
Speaker 4: but my thing is like, I want this to be
Speaker 4: the last place I work for as long as I
Speaker 4: work in corporate America. Don't I don't have a desire
Speaker 4: to try to go to a Facebook, a Twitter to
Speaker 4: get more money. Like I'm I'm good. I'm happy with
Speaker 4: where I am. I'm happy with the equity. I'm happy
Speaker 4: with a lot of the freedom that the role provides.
Speaker 4: And I just mentioned that because the money is one
Speaker 4: part of it. But sometimes there are these other benefits
Speaker 4: where it's like the cost of healthcare, vacation time, Google's
Speaker 4: like fertility in introvite. I don't even know how you pronounce.
Speaker 2: That fat fertilization.
Speaker 4: There we go, My bad, I'm such a that's that
Speaker 4: that is so man of me. Even stuff like that,
Speaker 4: where if you're thinking about family planning, there are all
Speaker 4: these other benefits that we don't think about because we
Speaker 4: often get so fixed on the salary, which is important.
Speaker 4: But let's say that I'm going to go somewhere and
Speaker 4: the offer is, you know, sixty K, and I get
Speaker 4: you know, four weeks of vacation, free breakfast, lunch, and dinner,
Speaker 4: and I get a monthly metro card. Okay, so it's like, okay,
Speaker 4: sixty thousand dollars plus all these other benefits. This other
Speaker 4: job pays eighty K, but I don't get any of that. Now,
Speaker 4: I can't do all of the mouth and that quickly
Speaker 4: in my head. But hopefully the way that it works
Speaker 4: out from how I described it is that that job
Speaker 4: that paid less as far as salary, when you factor
Speaker 4: in how much money is saved in terms of benefits,
Speaker 4: or maybe they have a childcare offering that quickly makes
Speaker 4: up that that EIGHTYK that that other salary had. So
Speaker 4: so it's import that people think about the money part
Speaker 4: of it. But it's also important that people think about
Speaker 4: what are the other benefits or the other things that
Speaker 4: are important to me, So going back to that values
Speaker 4: part and even just kind of like core needs, like
Speaker 4: what are the things that I absolutely need in my
Speaker 4: next role based off of where I want to go
Speaker 4: in my life or where I want my family to be,
Speaker 4: and let me decide from that perspective as opposed to
Speaker 4: deciding based on the dollar amount loan, Because if you
Speaker 4: decide based on the dollar amount alone, there is a
Speaker 4: I don't have data to support it, but there was
Speaker 4: a pretty good chance you will ultimately end up unhappy
Speaker 4: and unfulfilled.
Speaker 2: I'm really glad you mentioned the benefits piece. I think
Speaker 2: it often gets pushed aside when we consider negotiation, and
Speaker 2: this is something so just as an example, my mom
Speaker 2: works as a certified medical assistant at a hospital and
Speaker 2: they're pretty rigid with how they approach salaries and the
Speaker 2: caps and when you get a raise and how often
Speaker 2: and what percentage it's going to be. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying you can't negoti to me, I think, try, what's
Speaker 2: the worst they're going to do? Say no? But I'm like,
Speaker 2: okay when that's the case when it comes to finances,
Speaker 2: But you know you still want to stay in it,
Speaker 2: consider asking for other things to her. Flexibility is really important,
Speaker 2: So ask for more vacation time, ask for better health benefits,
Speaker 2: ask for an increase in your four oh one K
Speaker 2: match like who knows. But there's different ways that we
Speaker 2: can explore negotiation, not just salary. So I really appreciate
Speaker 2: your focus on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, even like you're going to take a course and
Speaker 4: maybe that course relates to your job. See if your
Speaker 4: job will reimburse you for it. You know, are there
Speaker 4: things that you're already doing. And a lot of times
Speaker 4: these companies have these these discount portals that people don't
Speaker 4: look into, where you know, you can get things like
Speaker 4: discounts on your cell phone, discounts on products and services
Speaker 4: from other companies, like discounts on MacBooks. So there are
Speaker 4: all of these things that are even discount on travel.
Speaker 4: There are all of these things that are available there,
Speaker 4: even sometimes they're buried in some five hundred page employee
Speaker 4: handbook or the company isn't as good as socializing all
Speaker 4: of the various resources that are available. And that's why
Speaker 4: I emphasize so much that this career progression thing really
Speaker 4: is on the individual. It really is on you to
Speaker 4: stay on track of all of these things and not
Speaker 4: assume that other people don't know how to do their job.
Speaker 4: But just take your career, and you take your life
Speaker 4: and your own just live intentionally. I feel like when
Speaker 4: you live intentionally, things just work out. Not all of
Speaker 4: the time you're going to have these peaks and valleys
Speaker 4: and dips, but when you're moving intentionally with a goal
Speaker 4: in mind, whether it's short term or long term, I
Speaker 4: just find that even with all of the turbulence that
Speaker 4: happens in life, it still feels easier to get there
Speaker 4: because ultimately you know what it is that you are
Speaker 4: working toward. And I think the same thing applies to
Speaker 4: your career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of that intentionality piece, and if somebody is
Speaker 2: considering their care and considering what they're getting paid and
Speaker 2: their benefits, do you have any guide or template on
Speaker 2: when is a good time to be considering a higher
Speaker 2: pay or when to kind of start that process, whether
Speaker 2: it's within your company or if it is necessary to
Speaker 2: make a career move.
Speaker 4: It's funny, then I'm going to answer this this way
Speaker 4: because I just decided this literally yesterday. I think the
Speaker 4: time to start thinking about that is pretty much after
Speaker 4: you accept that offer for whatever role you're in now,
Speaker 4: or whenever you start your next role, starting to have
Speaker 4: an idea of how that's going to take you forward,
Speaker 4: which is going to help you plot the next few steps.
Speaker 4: So I'll give you an example of this. When I
Speaker 4: was working at a nonprofit from twenty ten to twenty thirteen.
Speaker 4: That was my first role as an HR generalist, and
Speaker 4: the reason that I was able to get into that
Speaker 4: role is because I had did a bid I'm gonna
Speaker 4: call it a bid like it was prison at a
Speaker 4: staffing agency that I did that was because I found
Speaker 4: out to get an HR generalist role, I needed to
Speaker 4: pick up kind of more of the core HR skills
Speaker 4: or pick up what was a professional in Human Resources certification.
Speaker 4: Working at this staff engagency allowed me to get the
Speaker 4: experience and pick up credits so that I could sit
Speaker 4: for the professional and Human Resources exam. The fact that
Speaker 4: I had picked up those credits that I was positioning
Speaker 4: myself for this exam made this company interested in me
Speaker 4: because they saw that I was serious about HR. So
Speaker 4: taking that head hunter job, I started my career in sales,
Speaker 4: but then taking that head hunter job, even that was
Speaker 4: connected to what I did in sales, because you're on
Speaker 4: the phone, you're pitching people, you're selling opportunities, and you're
Speaker 4: selling candidates to companies, you're selling products. And so each
Speaker 4: role that I've taken has been intentional in terms of
Speaker 4: how it set me up for the next one. So
Speaker 4: when I went from that nonprofit that I won't talk
Speaker 4: about how I felt when I left it, But when
Speaker 4: I left that nonprofit, I said, I want to go
Speaker 4: to a tech startup that'll better position be to get
Speaker 4: noticed by a larger company like a Google or someone
Speaker 4: like that. And that's what ended up happening. And I
Speaker 4: mentioned that because that career decision of I want to
Speaker 4: go to this type of company to better position me
Speaker 4: for the next thing, because it's not always that immediate
Speaker 4: next move right. Sometimes it's two or three moves down
Speaker 4: the road, and so knowing that you may have to
Speaker 4: take like a pivot or what might feel like a
Speaker 4: little bit of a step back to ultimately come up
Speaker 4: in the long term, it's well worth it. So I
Speaker 4: encourage people just constantly thinking about like what's next, how
Speaker 4: you can pick up new skills, if there is a
Speaker 4: direction that you want to go, what are the skills
Speaker 4: that you need to pick up now or the type
Speaker 4: of projects and type of work that you need to
Speaker 4: get on, so that you can pick up more of
Speaker 4: that experience so that when it comes time to interview,
Speaker 4: or when it comes time to have that conversation about
Speaker 4: a promotion or your readiness, you've already picked up the skills.
Speaker 4: And again it's hey, look I've got the receipts. I
Speaker 4: think even for interviewing, that same list of stuff that
Speaker 4: I write down and I do all of this in trello.
Speaker 4: When it comes time for me to interview for jobs,
Speaker 4: same thing. I go through all of the projects that
Speaker 4: I've worked on, everything that I've accomplished, all of the
Speaker 4: people that I've talked to, and just to jog stories,
Speaker 4: what are the realm of stories or what are the
Speaker 4: realms of things that I can say in these conversations
Speaker 4: to showcase my value, my knowledge, and that I'm the
Speaker 4: person that you need to hire and get all these
Speaker 4: other candidates out the pain.
Speaker 2: So wise, I love all the tips that you're providing
Speaker 2: from keeping track of it, and I think there's a
Speaker 2: bit of a perspective shift with this too, because a
Speaker 2: lot of times will keep track of all the negative
Speaker 2: stuff within our workplaces, of all the stuff someone else
Speaker 2: did that really frustrated us. Yes, but still keep a list.
Speaker 2: Just make it a list about all the things that
Speaker 2: you are doing well and that position you well to
Speaker 2: increasing that salary, increasing that benefits, and living more intentional.
Speaker 2: I think that's it's excellent. And to constantly be thinking
Speaker 2: about it even from day one. All Right, when am
Speaker 2: I going to negotiate for that higher pay? What do
Speaker 2: I want it to be? What are the skill sets, environments,
Speaker 2: experiences that I want to be a part of. In
Speaker 2: order so that I love the term you're using the
Speaker 2: receipts so I have the proof of it to say,
Speaker 2: here's why. It's not just oh can you give me
Speaker 2: an extra ten thousand dollars, but here's why I think
Speaker 2: that I've earned that value for this company. Excellent.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's And I'm saying yeah because I agree
Speaker 4: with what you're saying that because I think what I
Speaker 4: said it is so dope.
Speaker 2: I'm just repading what you're saying. So that's fine. Add
Speaker 2: it to your list of all the dope things are doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I really do feel like the actual negotiation
Speaker 4: part and That's why I'm not talking so much about
Speaker 4: the negotiation is everything that comes before it, because really,
Speaker 4: to me, most of it is the mental Most of
Speaker 4: it is this receipts part of it, because if you
Speaker 4: go into the conversation and you're confident, you're less likely
Speaker 4: to back down when you just got all of this
Speaker 4: evidence and you feel that you have this solid case
Speaker 4: and you're looking and you're like, yo, look at all
Speaker 4: of this stuff that I've done, and that's information that
Speaker 4: you can use internally with the current company or externally,
Speaker 4: and maybe you look at all these things that you've done,
Speaker 4: you have a conversation internally, you ask about a raise,
Speaker 4: they say no, and then you take those same receipts
Speaker 4: and those turn into resume bullet points, those turn into
Speaker 4: stories that you're telling in external interviews, which then turn
Speaker 4: into offers that you're now bringing back to your company
Speaker 4: and saying, here's what happens when you don't pay someone
Speaker 4: their worth. I'll see you later.
Speaker 2: So I feel energized.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, I hope that the people listening to this
Speaker 3: will be motivated to now like go And I hate
Speaker 3: this term ask for what you're worth, because we have
Speaker 3: this mental block about what we're our self worth is,
Speaker 3: but to just ask for more and to justify it
Speaker 3: with those receipts to start are keeping them so that
Speaker 3: your maybe your self worth does increase as a result
Speaker 3: of doing this.
Speaker 2: So I think it can be twofold.
Speaker 3: I think I think we're going to like raise people's
Speaker 3: feeling of self worth and their incomes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very excited, and I have like this negotiation thing.
Speaker 4: I can summarize it in particularly for external when you're
Speaker 4: moving jobs. And I kind of talked about it already.
Speaker 4: The magic to a recruiter's ears or whoever you're working
Speaker 4: with on the job at the point that you do
Speaker 4: have an offer is and this is after they've told
Speaker 4: you the numbers and you have not told them what
Speaker 4: the numbers are, and they come back with the offer
Speaker 4: that's probably going to be like a pretty low or
Speaker 4: it could be really high, which would be awesome, in
Speaker 4: which case still ask for more, still ask for more.
Speaker 4: But if you say, okay, I've looked at the offer,
Speaker 4: I'd be willing to sign this today if give whatever
Speaker 4: it is that you want, and that recruiter or that
Speaker 4: person their insteadies to get you hired, whether in house, outhouse,
Speaker 4: in house or extend house. Yeah, not in the out house.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, hopefully with no flies in it. But that
Speaker 4: just I could tell you just from doing this for years,
Speaker 4: that I'm ready to sign today. If that gives the
Speaker 4: recruit of the information that they need to go back
Speaker 4: to the compensation team, the HR team, whoever's controlling the budget,
Speaker 4: and since they have extended the offer to you, it's
Speaker 4: clear that they want you. Uh. That is how you
Speaker 4: get them to do whatever they can do on their side,
Speaker 4: and typically whatever they come back with after that point
Speaker 4: is close to, if not the actual number that they
Speaker 4: can really do. So if they offer you seventy K
Speaker 4: and you say, hey, I've looked at everything and I'd
Speaker 4: be willing. I'd be willing to sign this offer today.
Speaker 4: If we could get to eighty five, and they come
Speaker 4: back and say the highest we can do is seventy,
Speaker 4: then maybe you say, is there any flexibility on benefits,
Speaker 4: vacation time, I have some trips, and like that's kind
Speaker 4: of how it like, that's kind of how it goes
Speaker 4: as opposed to you saying, oh, well I make sixty
Speaker 4: five today, and so they anchor on you know, sixty
Speaker 4: five or seventy you don't tell them that. You let
Speaker 4: them throw out the first number, and then your goal
Speaker 4: is just to push that up. And remember it doesn't
Speaker 4: have to be just in the dollar amount. It could
Speaker 4: be in the other benefits that you ask about as well,
Speaker 4: because let's say they say seventy five instead of eighty five,
Speaker 4: you go okay, and then you ask about benefits. As
Speaker 4: a recruiter, it's like, what other things can I do
Speaker 4: to close this person? So, okay, we got money off
Speaker 4: the table. They seem to be cool with that, Like,
Speaker 4: what are the other things that I can do to
Speaker 4: try and sweeten the pot for this person to get
Speaker 4: them in the door. I think a lot of people
Speaker 4: negotiate from the perspective of, oh my god, I don't
Speaker 4: want to mess this up. Oh my god, I don't
Speaker 4: want to lose this opportunity. If I ask for more,
Speaker 4: they're going to walk away. And I think I've heard
Speaker 4: of that happening in like zero point one percent of cases.
Speaker 4: And if a place does walk away from you for
Speaker 4: asking for more than that's probably not a place you
Speaker 4: want to be in the first place. But just that,
Speaker 4: and I find it works in general that if we
Speaker 4: can get to i'd be ready to today is gold.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I find and I didn't know this until I
Speaker 3: became an entrepreneur. But in businesses that are hiring, businesses
Speaker 3: don't typically hire proactively. They hire reactively, and so when
Speaker 3: they need somebody and they've chosen someone, they are really
Speaker 3: kind of desperate to get that position filled quickly. So
Speaker 3: it is definitely they don't hire just because they have
Speaker 3: the time to end money life around to hire people.
Speaker 3: They need people.
Speaker 4: One more thing and this is where I see people
Speaker 4: fumble with negotiation. Is the market, the economy, how the
Speaker 4: company is doing, has no impact on what your worth
Speaker 4: is and the value that they should be paying you.
Speaker 4: When I hear people say, oh, like, I know it's
Speaker 4: tough time, so I'm looking to take a little Why
Speaker 4: why are you looking to take less? Your value hasn't changed,
Speaker 4: your skill set hasn't changed.
Speaker 2: This isn't really altruism needs to come out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's so funny that people will think so
Speaker 4: much about the companies, but these companies don't think so
Speaker 4: much about the people. They'll be quick to lay you off,
Speaker 4: fire you, and you're thinking, oh, like I really need this,
Speaker 4: Like you know what, maybe I'll just take like let
Speaker 4: know your rate is your rate. Whatever work they need done,
Speaker 4: clearly you know how to do it. So you got
Speaker 4: to hold to that. I don't care how the market
Speaker 4: and the market is going up or down. I know
Speaker 4: some people who are making more money than they've ever
Speaker 4: made before because the skill set is in a deficit,
Speaker 4: or just like y'all said, it's reactive and a hiring
Speaker 4: manager is incentivized to get someone in the door as
Speaker 4: quickly as possible because they're probably doing two or three
Speaker 4: x work. Someone on their team is probably doing two
Speaker 4: or three X work, and now that's creating an attrition risk.
Speaker 4: So just remember that when you do get to that stage,
Speaker 4: you really are in the driver's seat.
Speaker 3: That's awesome, Thank you for sharing that. So this is
Speaker 3: a question that we're asking all of our speakers based
Speaker 3: on the topic that we're talking about, but we'd really
Speaker 3: love to know, like, what do you hope the future
Speaker 3: of careers holds or includes remote flexibility?
Speaker 4: Huge? That's one thing I think that's come out of
Speaker 4: the pandemics at the Googs. And I am not a
Speaker 4: company spokesperson, but I know we're working back toward three
Speaker 4: days in office two days out. There's also an option
Speaker 4: where you can apply to be one hundred percent remote
Speaker 4: regardless of where you live, which I hadn't thought about
Speaker 4: as much that I'm starting to look at a lot
Speaker 4: more seriously, because for some people, being remote and working
Speaker 4: from home isn't the greatest situation family kids, Maybe it's
Speaker 4: even like an abusive situation, like who knows, but the
Speaker 4: flexibility to I've enjoyed this experience of working from home,
Speaker 4: you know, I've gotten so much more stuff done at
Speaker 4: home than I could get done in the office because
Speaker 4: of the way that my focus is set up. And
Speaker 4: I know a lot of other people who are experiencing
Speaker 4: their utmost levels of productvity. And I've also found that
Speaker 4: there's a general feeling of empowerment where people have had
Speaker 4: a year to kind of sit around and think, like
Speaker 4: what do I want out of life? Like maybe I
Speaker 4: should pick up a hobby habit. So people are setting
Speaker 4: up at sea stores and all of this other stuff,
Speaker 4: and these are things that would be a lot more
Speaker 4: difficult to do if it were not for us working
Speaker 4: from home. So I think there's some work to do.
Speaker 4: Work to be done in terms of how this pans
Speaker 4: out legally and like benefit wise from a certain perspective
Speaker 4: because there are things like if you work in one
Speaker 4: state but you're living somewhere else, how that impacts you.
Speaker 4: But that flexibility for people to work from wherever they
Speaker 4: want and for companies to understand you can still get
Speaker 4: the job done. It's not just a product of being
Speaker 4: in the office. That's where I hope we go like
Speaker 4: urto or return to the office and remote flex Like
Speaker 4: it is a huge topic right now that I'm seeing
Speaker 4: with people who are leaving the company and just with
Speaker 4: folks who are perusing the career streets in general.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is neat to see some of the benefits
Speaker 2: that have come out of this past one and a
Speaker 2: half plus years and just really the post traumatic growth
Speaker 2: that can happen, the resilience.
Speaker 4: I love that I'm writing that down.
Speaker 3: Jill has so many one liners.
Speaker 2: I'm a social worker my day job.
Speaker 3: So oh yeah, yeah, you can convey really big topics
Speaker 3: and big ideas in like three to four words, and
Speaker 3: it's great.
Speaker 2: Thanks Jen.
Speaker 4: If I can get you to do that for If
Speaker 4: I can get you to do that for Crypto, that'd
Speaker 4: be fantastic. I'll work on.
Speaker 2: It because that's right.
Speaker 5: It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 1: Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 4: Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died
Speaker 4: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 2: Duck bills, but blow bills.
Speaker 4: Bill, Claron, this is.
Speaker 3: The bill of the week.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, with that wretch. Can you share your bill
Speaker 2: of the week with us?
Speaker 4: My bill of the week. And it's funny. I am
Speaker 4: looking around my room, buying myself timed, thinking of something
Speaker 4: that's going to remind me of a bill. Actually I
Speaker 4: and this will not be a surprise at all, my
Speaker 4: therapist bill. Actually, I just I just saw that. So
Speaker 4: it's like every time I go, I go weekly. I've
Speaker 4: been going weekly since with the exception of some holidays,
Speaker 4: since July or excuse me, August twenty seventeen. And I
Speaker 4: mentioned that, and I do get expensed or I do
Speaker 4: get reimbursed for part of it through my healthcare benefit,
Speaker 4: so yeah, see benefit. But I mentioned that because because
Speaker 4: I've been thinking a lot about just where life is currently,
Speaker 4: and I was talking to Jin about this and just
Speaker 4: a lot of the abundance and things that have come
Speaker 4: my way. Uh, and having a therapist and having a
Speaker 4: support system and having what I like to call the
Speaker 4: right investment the right investments in my life portfolio has
Speaker 4: made a huge difference. And I don't think that I'm
Speaker 4: even here having this conversation with y'all today and possibly
Speaker 4: not even here period. I know that sounds super grim
Speaker 4: if I don't start working with a therapist and start
Speaker 4: putting the right folks around me and uh and really
Speaker 4: taking care of myself. So I'm going to go with
Speaker 4: the therapist bill because that's a bill that I don't
Speaker 4: mind paying every week.
Speaker 2: Oh that thrills me to hear. And I champion everything
Speaker 2: that you've just said. And thanks for the plug too,
Speaker 2: just for for my mental health field that I'm in.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. I think one again, if we
Speaker 2: were to think about post traumatic growth, I do think
Speaker 2: that a lot of the stigma along with seeking help
Speaker 2: and support as it relates to mental health is decreasing.
Speaker 2: The people are seeking out help and support more. There's
Speaker 2: also a double edged sword with that because it is
Speaker 2: there is such a need for it, but there is
Speaker 2: help available and support available. So well done, glad that
Speaker 2: that is your bill and that you're not Yeah, a
Speaker 2: shame to talk about it or do it on a
Speaker 2: regular basis, and I'm really thrilled to hear it's helping you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean just just owning your story, owning yours,
Speaker 4: just talking about this type of stuff. It's really big
Speaker 4: to me right now, especially with men, because I know
Speaker 4: there's ego and there's you know, the norms, and you know,
Speaker 4: we just pray it out there. There's all sorts of
Speaker 4: stuff and it to it didn't take. But when I
Speaker 4: lost a friend to uh, he took his own life
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen. And this was somebody who, like soup,
Speaker 4: one of those extremely popular but secretly struggling folks, like
Speaker 4: just had everything, Like you thought he was gonna be
Speaker 4: a He just had everything, but like no one knew
Speaker 4: or people didn't know until afterwards and then they started
Speaker 4: piecing it together. But that's why, like I just harp,
Speaker 4: but I'm like, it is so important, Like don't be
Speaker 4: ashamed to go have a conversation, go talk to someone.
Speaker 4: There's actually less judgment when you talk to a therapist
Speaker 4: because you know they're not your family, they're not your friends,
Speaker 4: like they're there's really no judgment. You're paying to not
Speaker 4: be judged. Which it's just great.
Speaker 2: They're a job what you're doing.
Speaker 4: Get that now, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: So, And we're glad that you're here, Rich, that you
Speaker 3: have helped so many people, and you do and your
Speaker 3: story is helping people and going to help even more
Speaker 3: people in the future. So thank you for being Thank
Speaker 3: you for being here. Where can people hear more from you?
Speaker 4: Yes? So, you can check out the Paychecks and Balances
Speaker 4: podcasts on your favorite podcast player. Also at paychecks and
Speaker 4: Balances dot com. You can also follow me on all
Speaker 4: the socials at pay balances. If you follow that account,
Speaker 4: you get a link to my personal I post a
Speaker 4: lot more regularly on at pay Balances personal finance content,
Speaker 4: career content, motivational content, mental health content, and some fun
Speaker 4: along the way. And yeah, that's pretty much it at
Speaker 4: pay Balances. Paychecks and Balances dot Com podcast is now
Speaker 4: weekly being released on Thursday, so encourage you to come
Speaker 4: over check that out and save what's up in these
Speaker 4: social media streets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Rich, Thanks for sharing your perspective, Thanks
Speaker 2: for being in this space. Thank you for offering another
Speaker 2: face to personal finance other than white male.
Speaker 4: No problem, I took my hat.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmmm. Do you see what we mean. Do you
Speaker 2: see what we mean now or a whole new meaning.
Speaker 1: It was really rude of us to hold this episode,
Speaker 1: this interview, like hold it away from you for so long.
Speaker 1: But we've seen our error and that's why we're bringing
Speaker 1: it to you. It's not actually that we've seen our error.
Speaker 2: It's that.
Speaker 1: We just need to pack a lot of interviews in
Speaker 1: a short amount of time so you get the benefit
Speaker 1: of my maternity leave.
Speaker 2: We're all reaping those benefits. Yes, that may be gonna
Speaker 2: be so cute, but I think.
Speaker 1: I hope that you will take something away from this interview,
Speaker 1: like really advocating yourself taking risks and hopefully increasing your
Speaker 1: income if you're not to do a side hustle to
Speaker 1: really capitalize on the forty hours a week you put
Speaker 1: in at work.
Speaker 2: Thank you all so much for listening, and again we're
Speaker 2: going to remind you that we have a membership for
Speaker 2: our listeners. People are already in there working towards their
Speaker 2: debt payoffs and we do monthly money challenges. There's accountability
Speaker 2: groups in there so you can chat with others about
Speaker 2: what your financial goals are to share tips with each other.
Speaker 2: We want to congratulate one of our members for a
Speaker 2: big win. This comes from Vanessa W. Who shared My
Speaker 2: husband and I saved over forty five hundred dollars in
Speaker 2: January doing a no spend challenge. As a result, we
Speaker 2: have been able to start putting in offers on home.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: Whoo that's what we did when we so we were
Speaker 1: told that we had six weeks to get out of
Speaker 1: our apartment because the owner was going to airbnb it,
Speaker 1: and we just did a no spend month and that's
Speaker 1: how we were able to get additionals to our savings
Speaker 1: for the house.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So well done, Vanessa.
Speaker 2: This is amazing that you could find that amount of
Speaker 2: money in one month to set aside for putting in
Speaker 2: offers on homes that might otherwise have been spent. These
Speaker 2: are what no spend challenges are for, like specific reason,
Speaker 2: identify maybe habits you want to shift and change. Not
Speaker 2: a long term lifestyle, but can really help jumpstart these goals.
Speaker 2: Well done, but.
Speaker 1: More finish them strong, Like I have just a couple
Speaker 1: thousand left on this credit card, I need just a
Speaker 1: couple thousand for a down payment. Doing a no spend
Speaker 1: challenge just really quickly, like get there so motivating.
Speaker 2: Thank you all again for being here. If you want
Speaker 2: to check out that membership where we have those courses, interviews, challenges,
Speaker 2: lots more really awesome people over there, go to Frugal
Speaker 2: Friends podcast dot com slash club see if it's a
Speaker 2: good fit for you.
Speaker 1: Bye. Grugal Friends is produced by.
Speaker 2: Eric sirianni okay Jen, speaking of intentional strategies to increase
Speaker 2: your income and just wealth in general. Can you already
Speaker 2: tell them? Being sarcastic with what's to come next? I
Speaker 2: can't wait. So friends were in town this past weekend
Speaker 2: and we went to the beach and lo and behold
Speaker 2: we find this one little beach toy peeking up out
Speaker 2: of the sand. No, no children are around, so we
Speaker 2: know this was just left behind and nearly covered. What
Speaker 2: it was was a beautiful little turtle flexible sand mold. However,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking this could also be an ice bold this
Speaker 2: because it was kind of silicon. Yeah, super flexible. So
Speaker 2: we bring it home and I decide to get cracking
Speaker 2: on turtle making turtle ice What I could what what
Speaker 2: is one turtle mold could be infinite ice turtles turtle
Speaker 2: and so infinite it's not the word I get going.
Speaker 2: I washed it out first and made sure it was
Speaker 2: very free of sand, and I even began to set timers,
Speaker 2: also out of my curiosity to see how long to
Speaker 2: make one turtle? How long does it does it take
Speaker 2: make anice? It does take more than an hour. I
Speaker 2: set it for one hour and went back to it.
Speaker 2: It wasn't quite long enough, but two hours solid amount
Speaker 2: of time for a turtle ice. So I was on it.
Speaker 2: I got to the fourth one. So I have a
Speaker 2: bag that I was putting the turtle ice turtles into
Speaker 2: and pulling them out every time adding to it. I
Speaker 2: had three done. I was about to get the fourth out.
Speaker 2: The fourth broke.
Speaker 4: Oh no, what.
Speaker 2: Could be done? But how about let's try just adding
Speaker 2: more water to it, refreezing it. It'll congeal it all
Speaker 2: again into ice. Did that put the turtle back in?
Speaker 2: You know what I didn't do. I didn't put the
Speaker 2: bag of the other three turtles back into the freezer.
Speaker 2: All those turtles melted. My now nearly twenty four hours
Speaker 2: of turtle making all for nought. Had it was just
Speaker 2: water at that point? Did I let it get me
Speaker 2: down though? For a minute? Yes, But I persevered and
Speaker 2: we are back on the turtle making game. I don't
Speaker 2: know what I'm gonna do with it because I don't
Speaker 2: I see it in myself. There was a part of me,
Speaker 2: what other kinds of molds could I be getting for myself?
Speaker 2: I don't want that. I don't want ice molds. I
Speaker 2: don't want my fridge to only be full of ice.
Speaker 2: Although I do love those Instagram accounts. It's fun to watch,
Speaker 2: but I can't do that. I'm only doing this because
Speaker 2: I got a free turtle from the beach. Although my friend,
Speaker 2: who knows that I'm in a bit of transition with
Speaker 2: my work, was like, this could be your next gig.
Speaker 2: You could sell turtles making, and I prefer to keep
Speaker 2: it as a hobby. But you know, maybe in like
Speaker 2: five years from now, I discover yeah, well so far,
Speaker 2: I'm not the greatest at it. You need to practice.
Speaker 1: You're never going to be perfect right off the first
Speaker 1: turtle or yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and figure out if there's a
Speaker 2: way I can weave it in at your baby shower.
Speaker 2: Turtles are not the theme. Donuts are the theme. Spoiler alert,
Speaker 2: But there might be like a turtle in your drink ice.
Speaker 1: Turtle did you test it to make sure that turtles
Speaker 1: fit in your cups?
Speaker 4: Nope, okay, I