Speaker 1: We have Evan Mark Katz, a dating coach, dating advisor,
Speaker 1: dating expert, to help you find the love of your life.
Speaker 2: Evan, welcome, beth.
Speaker 3: Any, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Of course, so you are a matchmaker. What percentage of
Speaker 1: matchmakers are men?
Speaker 3: I am not a matchmaker. I'm a dating coach for women.
Speaker 2: Oh, you are a dating coach.
Speaker 4: That is a major distinction. Matchmakers make introductions. Dating coaches
Speaker 4: tell women how to make better decisions, which in my opinion,
Speaker 4: is more powerful.
Speaker 2: And you don't make introductions.
Speaker 3: I do not make introductions.
Speaker 1: Because some matchmakers also coach do get dating coaching. Also,
Speaker 1: That's why I thought like it's like, maybe you do
Speaker 1: more dating coach, but you also matchmakes so interesting.
Speaker 4: I'm the og dating coach made up this job twenty
Speaker 4: years ago, and now everybody's a dating coach.
Speaker 1: So you don't look like old enough that you could
Speaker 1: have made this up twenty years ago.
Speaker 3: We're close to peers on fifty two.
Speaker 4: Grew up in Long Island, member of the tribe where
Speaker 4: Exotic Delmore Amy Fisher.
Speaker 2: Oh amazing.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait a second, Okay, So you are a dating
Speaker 1: coach and you've been doing this for twenty years.
Speaker 2: Are you married?
Speaker 4: I have been married for sixteen. The first five years
Speaker 4: of this I was learning from coaching other people what
Speaker 4: my own hypocrisies were.
Speaker 1: So I had a book called, I Suck at Dating,
Speaker 1: so you don't have to So that was you.
Speaker 3: I've got a couple of books that are like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, you might still suck at dating. You probably haven't
Speaker 1: done it that much you've been coaching it.
Speaker 4: I have a unique ability to be around women and
Speaker 4: help them see in their blind spots. And if I
Speaker 4: were let loose on society, I think I'd lapsed back
Speaker 4: into the old thing that being good at dating. I'm
Speaker 4: much happier married, though I can't advocate for a happy
Speaker 4: marriage enough.
Speaker 1: So have you been listening to the advice that the
Speaker 1: matchmakers have been giving on to just be dating?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean I absolutely have great respect for matchmakers.
Speaker 4: I think they have a really hard job. I think
Speaker 4: we have similar clients. That people come to me are
Speaker 4: the ones who say, Okay, I'm the common denominator. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's basically helping women get out of their own way.
Speaker 4: I think if you ask most women the biggest problem,
Speaker 4: they're going to say, where are all the quality men
Speaker 4: and why am I attracted to the wrong men. I
Speaker 4: help women fix their broken man picker.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm gonna love this from.
Speaker 4: The very beginning right confidence and self awareness to the end.
Speaker 4: So it's a much more concierge handholding process. I make
Speaker 4: sure women will never get into another bad relationship again.
Speaker 1: I call it like getting in the wrong cart. I've
Speaker 1: gotten in the wrong car. It looks good, the sign's
Speaker 1: going to one location. I know I really want to
Speaker 1: go to the other, but the car in the moment
Speaker 1: looks good. Then you're in the car, then you're driving.
Speaker 1: You were probably making a decision out of fear and
Speaker 1: not truth, which I think is a big thing. People
Speaker 1: aren't willing to really sit back and hold and wait.
Speaker 3: I love your metaphor, and I use something similar.
Speaker 4: Tell me I talk about shopping in the wrong aisle
Speaker 4: of the grocery store. Most people like steak and ice cream.
Speaker 4: But steak and ice cream is going to kill you eventually,
Speaker 4: and so then you're like, hey, you got to get
Speaker 4: off that steak and ice cream diet. The fixer upper,
Speaker 4: broken narcissistic workaholic man who cheats on you, we got
Speaker 4: to break you up with the steak and the ice cream. Oh,
Speaker 4: so you're telling me I just have to have rice
Speaker 4: cakes and kale. You're telling me to settle. No, there's
Speaker 4: this lane of chicken and vegetables where the most happy,
Speaker 4: healthy people live. And if women could discover the ten
Speaker 4: percent of men who are worth their while, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of love to be had out there. But most
Speaker 4: people vacillate between. This guy bores me. I'm so intoxicated
Speaker 4: by this guy, but he's so bad for me.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to challenge that because I feel I
Speaker 1: also consider myself. I consider myself an almost expert level
Speaker 1: data like I have a lot of institutional knowledge, and
Speaker 1: so I think saying that means like someone's going to
Speaker 1: have to really make a lot of sacrifices because now
Speaker 1: they're going to have to eat the grilled chicken and
Speaker 1: won't get the delicious fatty steak.
Speaker 2: When I think that, I think sometimes people could have.
Speaker 1: The steak, but because right away the steak seems so
Speaker 1: bad for them, they're not willing to be patient enough
Speaker 1: and work the situation to see if there's an energy match,
Speaker 1: Like meaning I have met people that are the steak
Speaker 1: and wanted immediately them to turn into the chicken, but
Speaker 1: turn into the healthy chicken when sometimes if you like
Speaker 1: show who you really are, you're patient, you present your
Speaker 1: best self. To Barbie's point, her opinion is that you
Speaker 1: have to be your best self before dating the person
Speaker 1: you'd want to date. And then I think that there
Speaker 1: are many roads to rome. I have been with many
Speaker 1: steaks that have turned into tofu because they hadn't met
Speaker 1: the right person. They need the right energy match, they
Speaker 1: need to be intellectually challenged. So I think there's a
Speaker 1: world in between both where it's like the leaner steak
Speaker 1: and the fattier chicken.
Speaker 4: There's no coach matchmaker in the world who would be successful.
Speaker 4: If their solution you see all the happy couples on
Speaker 4: someone's website. If their solution is take your medicine and
Speaker 4: deal with it right. The presumption is that anybody who's
Speaker 4: coming for dating a relationship advice is lost and when
Speaker 4: they exit, they exit in a happy relationship on their terms.
Speaker 4: And so I would agree with your point that timing
Speaker 4: has a lot to do with things. I think that
Speaker 4: people should really pay attention in that first month of
Speaker 4: dating to whether the timing is wrong. Talk about getting
Speaker 4: in the wrong car, getting on the wrong bus and
Speaker 4: heading to Chicago when you meant to go to Boston.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of guys who are just huge red
Speaker 4: flags and people ignore them. Recently separated, recently divorced, don't
Speaker 4: know what I'm looking for.
Speaker 3: You're too good for me. I'm intimidated by you.
Speaker 1: Let's start from the very beginning. Okay, so you only
Speaker 1: coach women.
Speaker 4: The first five years of this. I coach men. Men
Speaker 4: need help, they don't ask for it. So that's when
Speaker 4: anybody is like, why don't you coach men? Men need
Speaker 4: so much help. Men really don't ask for support, and
Speaker 4: so that's why I help women.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you help women. So there's a woman, and
Speaker 1: my opinion is that if they're coming to you, it's
Speaker 1: what you've just said. They've been their picker is off,
Speaker 1: or they feel that they've been in the wrong relationships,
Speaker 1: or they went through a breakup. They're afraid, they're older.
Speaker 1: How am I going to meet someone? There's a lot
Speaker 1: of fear that comes in. I think fear is a
Speaker 1: critical thing, right, So would you say that the first
Speaker 1: step is like to work on yourself and become a
Speaker 1: whole person like you have to become the fully put
Speaker 1: together piece of furniture, not the ikea that has screws
Speaker 1: missing and is because you could meet the right guy
Speaker 1: and mess it up. So you're coming in as a
Speaker 1: fully formed individual meeting. Are you doing the therapy? Are
Speaker 1: you talking to you to like assess the situation, like
Speaker 1: what's the step to get because I do think also
Speaker 1: that people are coming and look for something. Sometimes as
Speaker 1: a reaction to the last relationship is a big mistake.
Speaker 2: The pendulum.
Speaker 1: You just want you know you now you want the
Speaker 1: warm blanket because you had the player cheater.
Speaker 2: You don't have to go the whole opposite direction.
Speaker 4: Hey, Bethany, I know you don't need validation. I want
Speaker 4: to give you some validation today. Okay, you're instinctively really smart.
Speaker 4: The thing you're talking about, I call it the over correction. Wow,
Speaker 4: if you had a guy with no money, I'm looking
Speaker 4: for money. If you had no chemistry, I'm looking for chemistry.
Speaker 4: And we go way, way, way to the other end
Speaker 4: of the spectrum. My mom did this the guy after
Speaker 4: my dad passed away. Really nice, gentle guy, no attraction,
Speaker 4: no respect for him. Didn't make her laugh, But boy,
Speaker 4: he was nice and that lasted for like two years.
Speaker 1: By the way, you go for the warm blanket if
Speaker 1: you've been in a toxic abusive situation, but you may
Speaker 1: but you maybe you may not be warm blanket. Then
Speaker 1: you're confused, like, wait, but I wanted safety. I wanted security,
Speaker 1: but you weren't. Like at the baseline, just saying this
Speaker 1: is me and Bethany, what do I want that matches me?
Speaker 1: So you call that the overcorrection, I called the pendulum.
Speaker 4: All right, check yes, and again we're speaking the same
Speaker 4: exact language.
Speaker 2: Amazing As far as what people.
Speaker 4: Do right when they feel either their pickers broke or
Speaker 4: they're broken due to repeated mistakes, childhood trauma, divorce, attachment styles,
Speaker 4: et cetera, I think it's a both and solution. Not
Speaker 4: to be wishy washy. A lot of people come to
Speaker 4: me after they've done years and years and years of therapy,
Speaker 4: and their therapy might have helped them understand why they're
Speaker 4: attracted to the wrong people, but it hasn't gotten into
Speaker 4: a relationship with the right person. So as a dating coach,
Speaker 4: my job is to get you dating and dating smarter
Speaker 4: from every step of the way, from how you market
Speaker 4: yourself online, how you flirt and how you deal with
Speaker 4: text and how you deal with sex. And there's a
Speaker 4: whole curriculum that I've created for women and a community
Speaker 4: where a whole bunch of people who've been successful at
Speaker 4: this venture hold your hand through this process, so you're
Speaker 4: not doing it alone when you don't trust your judgment.
Speaker 4: So I think there's something wonderful about women in particular.
Speaker 4: Guys are like, you know, you know, being stereotypical people
Speaker 4: break up. Women are like what did I do wrong?
Speaker 4: What could I have done better? How could I have
Speaker 4: fixed this? How could I have tried harder? And the
Speaker 4: guys like crazy bitch?
Speaker 2: And by the way, but that's what I was saying before.
Speaker 1: You could be great, but you're ahead of your skis, yes,
Speaker 1: and you scare the shit out of the guy, and
Speaker 1: you'll never get the chance to see what it could
Speaker 1: have been.
Speaker 4: Or you choose a guy who, for all of his qualities,
Speaker 4: isn't ready for you now and it's not your job
Speaker 4: to wait for him to change.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you could be texting with someone and maybe they
Speaker 1: have a job where they're really just not on the
Speaker 1: phone that much, and you could mess it up because
Speaker 1: texts could screw everything up and you really don't get
Speaker 1: to know who the person is.
Speaker 4: You're right, and I'm as a fifty two year old man,
Speaker 4: I'm pretty old school. I think we need to resolve
Speaker 4: things this way. You can't have an important conversation via text,
Speaker 4: even though it's the most ubiquitous form of communication. I agree,
Speaker 4: so to your original point. A lot of women that
Speaker 4: will spend a decade working on themselves and not go
Speaker 4: on a date, got it. And I don't think you
Speaker 4: need to do that that I think they go in concert.
Speaker 2: That's an overcorrection too.
Speaker 4: Therapy is about your past, and coaching is about your
Speaker 4: present and future. Love that, so, yes, deal with your
Speaker 4: past and all your belief systems and limiting beliefs that
Speaker 4: are holding you back, and simultaneously don't sit on the
Speaker 4: sidelines waiting for perfection. It's the John Lennon life is
Speaker 4: what happens when you're making other plans.
Speaker 3: Okay, you can.
Speaker 4: I talk to women who have not gone on dates
Speaker 4: for years and years and years under the idea that
Speaker 4: if I continue to work on myself, then I'll be
Speaker 4: ready for him. I genuinely believe this. You don't have
Speaker 4: to change too. Find love you have to change your
Speaker 4: choice in men first and foremost. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 4: there aren't rough edges to sand off, because we could
Speaker 4: always be better.
Speaker 1: You don't have to change. You have to change your
Speaker 1: choice in men. You have to change some of your behavior.
Speaker 1: You You were about to talk about attachment styles. People
Speaker 1: have different means of communication and attaching, and men and
Speaker 1: women sometimes have different and mine would be anxious attachment
Speaker 1: or anxiety. But I call that like this is the
Speaker 1: control yourself. Like this is where you have to have
Speaker 1: guardrails on you. In communication. You could be a fast
Speaker 1: text or you could be an over communicator. You have
Speaker 1: to have guardrails. So I think let's talk about this
Speaker 1: part of it, because I don't think where do I
Speaker 1: find men is as difficult as when I meet them online?
Speaker 4: Or what?
Speaker 1: Now I've got to fish? What am I doing with
Speaker 1: this fish? Because it's going to wriggle right off? Now
Speaker 1: I've got a fish, So how am I handling that?
Speaker 1: So let's do that?
Speaker 4: Right? No, I think that's really important anxious attachment sign
Speaker 4: and again you do a really good job of taking
Speaker 4: complex things and making them accessible. Anxious attachment style is
Speaker 4: when you don't trust that someone is going to be
Speaker 4: there for you, because historically they have not been there
Speaker 4: for you. They have abandoned you, they've disappointed you. So
Speaker 4: you need a ton of reassurance that that person's going
Speaker 4: to continue to be there. Nake you feel safe, Yes,
Speaker 4: well you don't feel that safety. You do more reaching out.
Speaker 4: You come from a place of fear. You come from
Speaker 4: a place of scarcity, and that's the thing you're talking
Speaker 4: about driving someone away. So for anxious attached women who
Speaker 4: are looking for masculine and energy men right as women
Speaker 4: often are, you could generally trust a guy will do
Speaker 4: what he wants. You don't have to remind him you're alive.
Speaker 4: And so when I was dating my wife seventeen years ago,
Speaker 4: she never had to call me. She never had to
Speaker 4: text me. It's not that she couldn't have and I
Speaker 4: wouldn't have responded. But if I wanted to call her,
Speaker 4: i'd call her phone that to see her. I'd see her.
Speaker 4: You let him drive the train and choose you by
Speaker 4: his own volition instead of trying to pull him into
Speaker 4: your orbit.
Speaker 1: But you just made a huge assumption that anybody that
Speaker 1: has anxious attachment that they're going to act on it.
Speaker 1: And if you're a really really good chess player and
Speaker 1: you're like a complicated thinker, you are self aware, you
Speaker 1: know you're that you haven't labeled it, but you know
Speaker 1: you might be that type. You're needy or because of
Speaker 1: your emotions, because of your childhood, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you're acting on it. You could be I like, you
Speaker 1: would never never call a guy, never text the guy.
Speaker 1: The guy has to call. But if you're seeing that repeatedly,
Speaker 1: there's like a pad. And sometimes you can scare them
Speaker 1: away because they think you're like just you're very cold,
Speaker 1: you're very you know you're not. They'll think you're not
Speaker 1: interested when you're completely interested, but you just have anxiety inside.
Speaker 1: So you're trying to completely control the program and they're
Speaker 1: then freaking out the retreating.
Speaker 4: That's a great subtle observation. And so what we try
Speaker 4: to do in coaching is create an environment where any
Speaker 4: guy would want to be there.
Speaker 3: We both use a lot of metaphors. Right.
Speaker 4: I tell women you're the CEO of your love life.
Speaker 4: Men are interns applying for a job with you. And
Speaker 4: if you're going to be a company, be Google, be
Speaker 4: a place where they're giving you free meals and they
Speaker 4: drive you back and forth from work, and they have
Speaker 4: people missaging you and your share give someone an experience
Speaker 4: that they're going to want to come back for more.
Speaker 4: And so the the tone and the messaging of these
Speaker 4: emails is not cold. There's nothing that resembles game playing.
Speaker 4: It's warm, it's enthusiastic. You respond quickly, but you're responding
Speaker 4: to his needs instead of reaching out. That's one hundred
Speaker 4: persons distinction. But when he reaches out, oh my god,
Speaker 4: I'm so glad to see you. Yes, I'm free on
Speaker 4: Friday night, that was your day. Yeah, So you can
Speaker 4: still be warm and enthusiastic and all those things that
Speaker 4: Nan love, but you're allowing him to demonstrate his interest
Speaker 4: in you, so you don't have to find yourself in
Speaker 4: that same place of feeling needy.
Speaker 1: Right, And this is when we're dating. This doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be when you're a full fledged relationship and you
Speaker 1: feel safe.
Speaker 4: That goes out the window. When you have a relationship,
Speaker 4: we throw that out.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, So this is and this is when
Speaker 1: you're a little bit brief. But like you said, you're
Speaker 1: not cold, you're not distant, you're not playing game You're
Speaker 1: not trying to be a bitch. You are warm, but
Speaker 1: you're also busy, booked them busy and make a plan,
Speaker 1: But it's how do you feel when you're with the person,
Speaker 1: and if you create a good experience there. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of women on the date get into their
Speaker 1: head and start showing their cards about what was happening
Speaker 1: when off the date, and I think that's where we
Speaker 1: get tripped up. So a woman like and I've I've
Speaker 1: had him, I've had him. Man say to me, wait, well,
Speaker 1: I wasn't even sure you were excited because your texts
Speaker 1: were like a little brief now they weren't cold. They
Speaker 1: just were kind of maybe slightly chilly, but like not
Speaker 1: but still warm.
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, oh really, what was it?
Speaker 1: Like? So sweet because you don't want to fall on
Speaker 1: that trap where they're trying to find something out and
Speaker 1: then you become needy. They've got all the power and
Speaker 1: you're doing what you basically would have done on the day.
Speaker 4: On the text, I think you just unnerve something that's
Speaker 4: really important part of you being an advanced dater. And
Speaker 4: if you forget me omittment for making an observation because
Speaker 4: I don't know you. Well, obviously, I think we can
Speaker 4: kind of get into our head and overthink this too
Speaker 4: much and try to turn it into such a science
Speaker 4: and right where there's this almost this gamification. He said this,
Speaker 4: and I'm going to say this, and we could dissect it,
Speaker 4: and it doesn't mean that either you nor I is mistaken.
Speaker 4: But you know and I know that in real life
Speaker 4: when people make a connection, everything goes out the window.
Speaker 1: I totally true being with the right guy totally. That's
Speaker 1: totally true as well. That's totally true as well. It's
Speaker 1: just that men don't seem to like overly needy women
Speaker 1: until they're in a relationship and then they actually need them,
Speaker 1: they want to be needed.
Speaker 4: And then there's another wrinkle to this, which is we'll
Speaker 4: talk about masculine and feminine. Masculine men want to be
Speaker 4: the ones to pursue you more and more in society, men,
Speaker 4: especially younger men, are more passive right, waiting for her
Speaker 4: to call, for her to make the first move. You've
Speaker 4: seen white lotus like this. This is kind of what
Speaker 4: happens is men don't act the way men used to
Speaker 4: wow and women are more off balance. Right California, it's
Speaker 4: a gatting just a very laid back culture. So he's
Speaker 4: kind of waiting for her to text, she's waiting for
Speaker 4: him to text. I'm serious, men, So.
Speaker 1: Then how are you doing your job when your constructs
Speaker 1: are the opposite?
Speaker 4: Because it becomes more complex, I have to find out
Speaker 4: a what kind of woman I'm dealing with. Is she
Speaker 4: a woman who is in her masculine or femin Is
Speaker 4: she comfortable taking the lead. If she is, it's okay,
Speaker 4: you can call him. If he's the guy who likes that,
Speaker 4: it might work. You don't want to give top down
Speaker 4: dating advice that works. I think you know every person
Speaker 4: hears to every stereotype. So I find out what kind
Speaker 4: of personality she has, and then I also have to
Speaker 4: ask her, Hey, on that first date, is this the
Speaker 4: kind of guy who's like first date closer? Because with
Speaker 4: that guy, you can't nudge him into calling you. But
Speaker 4: there's a lot of really nice, sweet guys who are
Speaker 4: not good at dating. They don't have that swagger, they
Speaker 4: don't have that confidence. They're not going to make the
Speaker 4: first move. They'll just kind of hang out with you.
Speaker 4: They're guys who are often friend zoned guys. You know
Speaker 4: what I mean.
Speaker 1: Here's what I think I think that when you get
Speaker 1: into the swing of dating, you know, and it can't
Speaker 1: be so black and white. Yes, matchmakers also you want
Speaker 1: to lean into your feminine and let them be the man,
Speaker 1: and I get that, but I do think that if
Speaker 1: ultimately you're looking for a partnership, when you have two people,
Speaker 1: the best ideas should win. Like, let's pretend, Okay, so
Speaker 1: I'm a public person. Let's say I date someone who's
Speaker 1: not a public person, and I'm able to like get
Speaker 1: the reservation because it's a great place. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be like not presenting that. It's the way that
Speaker 1: you present it. Now that's obviously not as relatable. But
Speaker 1: I'm saying there are some women that are strong personalities,
Speaker 1: and maybe they're more organized, and maybe the guy is
Speaker 1: great at other things. Maybe he's really great at the
Speaker 1: map or great at play, you know, once you're on
Speaker 1: the trip, but the woman's better at planning it. I
Speaker 1: think you kind of have to find the rhythm. As
Speaker 1: long as it's an equal partnership, both no one feels
Speaker 1: emasculated or demoralized, where both people feel like they have
Speaker 1: value to the situation and also are receiving value from
Speaker 1: the situation.
Speaker 4: I think that's really great. And on top of that,
Speaker 4: it is one of the things I thought we were
Speaker 4: going to lead with today. Because I'm a dating coach
Speaker 4: for smart, strength, strong, successful women, That's one of the
Speaker 4: things that comes up all the time. If I'm in
Speaker 4: the ninety ninth percentile, how do I deal with men
Speaker 4: who don't have that?
Speaker 3: Couldn't have that?
Speaker 4: Can I only date in the tiny, tiny percentile of
Speaker 4: men who are richer or smarter than I am?
Speaker 3: What does this mean for all the rest of the guys.
Speaker 4: And it sounds like you've had enough life experience to
Speaker 4: kind of actually figure that out. It's about how you
Speaker 4: make him feel. He has to be secure enough on
Speaker 4: his own right. You can't just give a guy that.
Speaker 4: There are going to be people who can't handle that,
Speaker 4: but they self eliminate.
Speaker 1: They self eliminate, But you have to find out if
Speaker 1: there is a genuine value that that person provides in
Speaker 1: the relationship, not just that they'll stay home with the
Speaker 1: kids if you get married, meaning like that there's a
Speaker 1: genuine value add in a relationship, meaning it could be
Speaker 1: a partnership, just like a business partnership, which doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be some person's operations and logistics and doing things
Speaker 1: that you might not never want to do, and you
Speaker 1: have the vision in the marketing, Like each person likes
Speaker 1: what they're doing, and one may be more sexy. But
Speaker 1: I think that women often some women date down sometimes
Speaker 1: and then like later it catches up with them because
Speaker 1: it seems like a good idea in the beginning.
Speaker 4: I agree, And again, let's let's both and that okay, right,
Speaker 4: if you're ninety ninth percentile, technically virtually everything is dating down.
Speaker 4: Now if a man was in the ninety ninth percentile,
Speaker 4: would we ever say he's dating down to be with
Speaker 4: a woman.
Speaker 1: I'm not even I don't even think the money means
Speaker 1: dating down. It could be that a person is extremely
Speaker 1: like really going to help you, like, let's say, with
Speaker 1: your business, or really is an amazing chef that like
Speaker 1: cooks amazing meals and you want your kids to be
Speaker 1: helped like. I don't think that that would be dating
Speaker 1: down just because of money. I think dating down is
Speaker 1: if I think a really rich guy that's richer than you,
Speaker 1: that it is a mess who's not willing to work
Speaker 1: on himself or work on the relationship, but just expects
Speaker 1: it that's dating down.
Speaker 2: So I don't think it has to do with money.
Speaker 4: We're speaking the same language. But I think a lot
Speaker 4: of people, I mean, certainly our generation, our parents' generation.
Speaker 4: My mom got married when she was twenty one. She
Speaker 4: went from her father's home and to my dad's home.
Speaker 4: She was a stay at home mom, and then worked
Speaker 4: part time when my dad had some tough times. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's a very very traditional middle class thing. Now women
Speaker 4: are making as much as men in over forty percent
Speaker 4: of marriages where there are making more than men. Whomen
Speaker 4: are getting more degrees, more advanced degrees, and there's lots
Speaker 4: being written about a lot of think pieces about what's the.
Speaker 3: Role of men.
Speaker 4: If I don't need a man, what are they even
Speaker 4: there for? You're right, they have to bring some value.
Speaker 4: And to me, when I look at how what my
Speaker 4: wife brought to me, it wasn't an advanced degree and
Speaker 4: it wasn't money. She's the first person I ever met
Speaker 4: who loved me unconditionally, who accepted me completely for who
Speaker 4: I was, without trying to change me. That was her
Speaker 4: unique value proposition. After three hundred online dates, and I
Speaker 4: think if more people paid attention to that feeling, we
Speaker 4: might have happier relationships because I don't think there's anything
Speaker 4: much more important now.
Speaker 1: And you know, I always say, never settlest on what
Speaker 1: you deserve and like someone's only going to give you
Speaker 1: what you're willing to accept.
Speaker 2: And I really believe that stuff.
Speaker 1: Here's something that I want that has happened to me
Speaker 1: a couple of times and it's really served me, and
Speaker 1: you probably have a name for it and you've experienced it.
Speaker 1: So let's say you're in something, you're dating someone and
Speaker 1: you like each other, but it's not making you feel
Speaker 1: the way you need to feel, like you're kind of
Speaker 1: settling in some way, it's just not at the level
Speaker 1: where you need it to be. This is what I
Speaker 1: have done a couple of times and it has worked.
Speaker 1: But you have to be willing to walk if it
Speaker 1: doesn't work. And it's not a game. It's literally the
Speaker 1: opposite of insecure or of a game. It's just being
Speaker 1: completely secure. Where years ago, there was this guy and
Speaker 1: he was a player, and you know, and I I
Speaker 1: he was a player, And it happened the next time
Speaker 1: with the same type of person, a real player had
Speaker 1: never really had a girlfriend, and we were dating and
Speaker 1: we really connected, and it was amazing when we together,
Speaker 1: and the fooling around was amazing, the physical was amazing,
Speaker 1: All of it was amazing, and the humor like it was,
Speaker 1: it was elevated. But then when we would separate, it
Speaker 1: would be almost like you took three steps back. You
Speaker 1: took one, two steps forward, three steps back, and then
Speaker 1: maybe the next time you're supposed to date, you're kind
Speaker 1: of waiting around and the person hasn't called by a
Speaker 1: certain time of the day. You just didn't like the
Speaker 1: way it made you feel. You kind of felt like
Speaker 1: the floor could fall out at any time. You just
Speaker 1: didn't feel like it was evolving. And this guy called
Speaker 1: like at the late afternoons, like we're still on for tonight,
Speaker 1: which is fine, but like it wasn't like the comfort
Speaker 1: level of where we were intimately. It wasn't making me
Speaker 1: feel good. And I said, and you have to find
Speaker 1: the way to say it so it doesn't give desperate
Speaker 1: and needy, and it gives confidence. It's like a woman
Speaker 1: cutting her hair short but rocking it. I said, I
Speaker 1: always need to be evolving. If it's in business, if
Speaker 1: it's a friendship, I don't Because he said, I don't want.
Speaker 2: A serious relationship.
Speaker 1: I said, okay, well, I'm not looking to get engaged,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to be investing in someone if
Speaker 1: I don't see an evolution in some way, because that's
Speaker 1: just not what I'm looking for. And he was like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want something serious, and I was like, no problem,
Speaker 1: we can call it. This is what I need like
Speaker 1: and I had to be willing to walk because if
Speaker 1: he was will and I kept saying, but wait, but
Speaker 1: like we like being together and we like this. I'm like, right,
Speaker 1: I feel like we take two steps forward and three
Speaker 1: steps back, and I just won't ever settle for less
Speaker 1: than what I deserve.
Speaker 2: And we went back and forth.
Speaker 1: It had to be fifteen twenty minutes circles and I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, then call it. If you can't do it,
Speaker 1: then go and he ended up folding. He goes, all right,
Speaker 1: let's try this, and it ended up being a very successful,
Speaker 1: very long, very deep relationship on the first one of
Speaker 1: it's kind for him.
Speaker 2: And what I'm.
Speaker 1: Saying is it's like in business, if you feel like
Speaker 1: the deal is not going to give you what you
Speaker 1: need and you'll later end up presenting it, you gotta
Speaker 1: walk and it's so hard, but that confidence could end
Speaker 1: up making the relationship really successful because the person respects you. Like, wait,
Speaker 1: even if this person knows how into them you are,
Speaker 1: like you have exhibited and you might say it more
Speaker 1: in this conversation. I am really into you and I
Speaker 1: like the way I feel. But I'm into my You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to settle for less. So where do
Speaker 1: you stand on that concept, the pride of like who
Speaker 1: you are and what you're willing to take.
Speaker 4: I think it's a really good anecdote. I think it
Speaker 4: falls squarely under the idea that you're the CEO and
Speaker 4: he's at the intern. The problem is when you let
Speaker 4: the man set the terms, When you let the intern
Speaker 4: set the terms of the agreement and he says, you
Speaker 4: know what I want. I want the job where I
Speaker 4: could work once a week. I'm just going to come
Speaker 4: into the office. I'm going to come in for three hours.
Speaker 4: I'll do great work.
Speaker 3: You'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1: You're saying, that's what the guy was saying to me,
Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't want something serious.
Speaker 2: He was doing what you did.
Speaker 3: That's what That's what guys always say, right, Okay, got it?
Speaker 4: How little can I give that you'll say yes, interesting.
Speaker 3: And women give away their power of the No. This
Speaker 3: is my company.
Speaker 2: That's brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 4: If you want a job at this company, I don't
Speaker 4: know that you're going to have the quarter office and tenure.
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going to happen, but I do
Speaker 4: want someone who really wants to be here. And what
Speaker 4: does that look like from a boyfriend. You're gonna call
Speaker 4: me every day to see each other two three times
Speaker 4: a week. We're going to spend weekends together. We're going
Speaker 4: to meet each other's friends and family. It's going to
Speaker 4: be an integrated relationship. Then we're going to explore a future.
Speaker 4: If that's not in your interest, you're not the guy
Speaker 4: for this job. No hard feelings. You look cute in
Speaker 4: the Brooks Brothers suit, you got an amazing resume, wonderful
Speaker 4: interview that pooh, what an interview, But you're not a
Speaker 4: good long term candidate for this job. That's brilliant, and
Speaker 4: I am looking for long term candidates. If you keep
Speaker 4: on taking on interns who dictate the terms, you're never
Speaker 4: going to be happy. Yes,