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Speaker 1: We have Evan Mark Katz, a dating coach, dating advisor,

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Speaker 1: dating expert, to help you find the love of your life.

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Speaker 2: Evan, welcome, beth.

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Speaker 3: Any, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Of course, so you are a matchmaker. What percentage of

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Speaker 1: matchmakers are men?

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Speaker 3: I am not a matchmaker. I'm a dating coach for women.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you are a dating coach.

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Speaker 4: That is a major distinction. Matchmakers make introductions. Dating coaches

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Speaker 4: tell women how to make better decisions, which in my opinion,

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Speaker 4: is more powerful.

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Speaker 2: And you don't make introductions.

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Speaker 3: I do not make introductions.

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Speaker 1: Because some matchmakers also coach do get dating coaching. Also,

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Speaker 1: That's why I thought like it's like, maybe you do

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Speaker 1: more dating coach, but you also matchmakes so interesting.

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Speaker 4: I'm the og dating coach made up this job twenty

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Speaker 4: years ago, and now everybody's a dating coach.

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Speaker 1: So you don't look like old enough that you could

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Speaker 1: have made this up twenty years ago.

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Speaker 3: We're close to peers on fifty two.

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Speaker 4: Grew up in Long Island, member of the tribe where

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Speaker 4: Exotic Delmore Amy Fisher.

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Speaker 2: Oh amazing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a second, Okay, So you are a dating

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Speaker 1: coach and you've been doing this for twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Are you married?

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Speaker 4: I have been married for sixteen. The first five years

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Speaker 4: of this I was learning from coaching other people what

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Speaker 4: my own hypocrisies were.

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Speaker 1: So I had a book called, I Suck at Dating,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to So that was you.

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Speaker 3: I've got a couple of books that are like that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you might still suck at dating. You probably haven't

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Speaker 1: done it that much you've been coaching it.

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Speaker 4: I have a unique ability to be around women and

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Speaker 4: help them see in their blind spots. And if I

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Speaker 4: were let loose on society, I think I'd lapsed back

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Speaker 4: into the old thing that being good at dating. I'm

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Speaker 4: much happier married, though I can't advocate for a happy

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Speaker 4: marriage enough.

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Speaker 1: So have you been listening to the advice that the

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Speaker 1: matchmakers have been giving on to just be dating?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean I absolutely have great respect for matchmakers.

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Speaker 4: I think they have a really hard job. I think

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Speaker 4: we have similar clients. That people come to me are

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Speaker 4: the ones who say, Okay, I'm the common denominator. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's basically helping women get out of their own way.

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Speaker 4: I think if you ask most women the biggest problem,

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Speaker 4: they're going to say, where are all the quality men

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Speaker 4: and why am I attracted to the wrong men. I

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Speaker 4: help women fix their broken man picker.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm gonna love this from.

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Speaker 4: The very beginning right confidence and self awareness to the end.

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Speaker 4: So it's a much more concierge handholding process. I make

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Speaker 4: sure women will never get into another bad relationship again.

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Speaker 1: I call it like getting in the wrong cart. I've

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Speaker 1: gotten in the wrong car. It looks good, the sign's

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Speaker 1: going to one location. I know I really want to

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Speaker 1: go to the other, but the car in the moment

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Speaker 1: looks good. Then you're in the car, then you're driving.

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Speaker 1: You were probably making a decision out of fear and

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Speaker 1: not truth, which I think is a big thing. People

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Speaker 1: aren't willing to really sit back and hold and wait.

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Speaker 3: I love your metaphor, and I use something similar.

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Speaker 4: Tell me I talk about shopping in the wrong aisle

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Speaker 4: of the grocery store. Most people like steak and ice cream.

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Speaker 4: But steak and ice cream is going to kill you eventually,

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Speaker 4: and so then you're like, hey, you got to get

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Speaker 4: off that steak and ice cream diet. The fixer upper,

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Speaker 4: broken narcissistic workaholic man who cheats on you, we got

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Speaker 4: to break you up with the steak and the ice cream. Oh,

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Speaker 4: so you're telling me I just have to have rice

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Speaker 4: cakes and kale. You're telling me to settle. No, there's

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Speaker 4: this lane of chicken and vegetables where the most happy,

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Speaker 4: healthy people live. And if women could discover the ten

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Speaker 4: percent of men who are worth their while, there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of love to be had out there. But most

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Speaker 4: people vacillate between. This guy bores me. I'm so intoxicated

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Speaker 4: by this guy, but he's so bad for me.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to challenge that because I feel I

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Speaker 1: also consider myself. I consider myself an almost expert level

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Speaker 1: data like I have a lot of institutional knowledge, and

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Speaker 1: so I think saying that means like someone's going to

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Speaker 1: have to really make a lot of sacrifices because now

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Speaker 1: they're going to have to eat the grilled chicken and

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Speaker 1: won't get the delicious fatty steak.

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Speaker 2: When I think that, I think sometimes people could have.

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Speaker 1: The steak, but because right away the steak seems so

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Speaker 1: bad for them, they're not willing to be patient enough

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Speaker 1: and work the situation to see if there's an energy match,

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Speaker 1: Like meaning I have met people that are the steak

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Speaker 1: and wanted immediately them to turn into the chicken, but

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Speaker 1: turn into the healthy chicken when sometimes if you like

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Speaker 1: show who you really are, you're patient, you present your

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Speaker 1: best self. To Barbie's point, her opinion is that you

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Speaker 1: have to be your best self before dating the person

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Speaker 1: you'd want to date. And then I think that there

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Speaker 1: are many roads to rome. I have been with many

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Speaker 1: steaks that have turned into tofu because they hadn't met

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Speaker 1: the right person. They need the right energy match, they

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Speaker 1: need to be intellectually challenged. So I think there's a

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Speaker 1: world in between both where it's like the leaner steak

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Speaker 1: and the fattier chicken.

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Speaker 4: There's no coach matchmaker in the world who would be successful.

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Speaker 4: If their solution you see all the happy couples on

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Speaker 4: someone's website. If their solution is take your medicine and

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Speaker 4: deal with it right. The presumption is that anybody who's

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Speaker 4: coming for dating a relationship advice is lost and when

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Speaker 4: they exit, they exit in a happy relationship on their terms.

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Speaker 4: And so I would agree with your point that timing

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Speaker 4: has a lot to do with things. I think that

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Speaker 4: people should really pay attention in that first month of

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Speaker 4: dating to whether the timing is wrong. Talk about getting

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Speaker 4: in the wrong car, getting on the wrong bus and

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Speaker 4: heading to Chicago when you meant to go to Boston.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of guys who are just huge red

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Speaker 4: flags and people ignore them. Recently separated, recently divorced, don't

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Speaker 4: know what I'm looking for.

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Speaker 3: You're too good for me. I'm intimidated by you.

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Speaker 1: Let's start from the very beginning. Okay, so you only

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Speaker 1: coach women.

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Speaker 4: The first five years of this. I coach men. Men

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Speaker 4: need help, they don't ask for it. So that's when

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Speaker 4: anybody is like, why don't you coach men? Men need

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Speaker 4: so much help. Men really don't ask for support, and

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Speaker 4: so that's why I help women.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you help women. So there's a woman, and

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Speaker 1: my opinion is that if they're coming to you, it's

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Speaker 1: what you've just said. They've been their picker is off,

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Speaker 1: or they feel that they've been in the wrong relationships,

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Speaker 1: or they went through a breakup. They're afraid, they're older.

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Speaker 1: How am I going to meet someone? There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of fear that comes in. I think fear is a

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Speaker 1: critical thing, right, So would you say that the first

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Speaker 1: step is like to work on yourself and become a

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Speaker 1: whole person like you have to become the fully put

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Speaker 1: together piece of furniture, not the ikea that has screws

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Speaker 1: missing and is because you could meet the right guy

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Speaker 1: and mess it up. So you're coming in as a

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Speaker 1: fully formed individual meeting. Are you doing the therapy? Are

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Speaker 1: you talking to you to like assess the situation, like

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Speaker 1: what's the step to get because I do think also

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Speaker 1: that people are coming and look for something. Sometimes as

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Speaker 1: a reaction to the last relationship is a big mistake.

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Speaker 2: The pendulum.

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Speaker 1: You just want you know you now you want the

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Speaker 1: warm blanket because you had the player cheater.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to go the whole opposite direction.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Bethany, I know you don't need validation. I want

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Speaker 4: to give you some validation today. Okay, you're instinctively really smart.

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Speaker 4: The thing you're talking about, I call it the over correction. Wow,

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Speaker 4: if you had a guy with no money, I'm looking

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Speaker 4: for money. If you had no chemistry, I'm looking for chemistry.

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Speaker 4: And we go way, way, way to the other end

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Speaker 4: of the spectrum. My mom did this the guy after

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Speaker 4: my dad passed away. Really nice, gentle guy, no attraction,

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Speaker 4: no respect for him. Didn't make her laugh, But boy,

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Speaker 4: he was nice and that lasted for like two years.

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Speaker 1: By the way, you go for the warm blanket if

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Speaker 1: you've been in a toxic abusive situation, but you may

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Speaker 1: but you maybe you may not be warm blanket. Then

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Speaker 1: you're confused, like, wait, but I wanted safety. I wanted security,

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Speaker 1: but you weren't. Like at the baseline, just saying this

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Speaker 1: is me and Bethany, what do I want that matches me?

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Speaker 1: So you call that the overcorrection, I called the pendulum.

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Speaker 4: All right, check yes, and again we're speaking the same

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Speaker 4: exact language.

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Speaker 2: Amazing As far as what people.

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Speaker 4: Do right when they feel either their pickers broke or

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Speaker 4: they're broken due to repeated mistakes, childhood trauma, divorce, attachment styles,

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Speaker 4: et cetera, I think it's a both and solution. Not

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Speaker 4: to be wishy washy. A lot of people come to

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Speaker 4: me after they've done years and years and years of therapy,

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Speaker 4: and their therapy might have helped them understand why they're

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Speaker 4: attracted to the wrong people, but it hasn't gotten into

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Speaker 4: a relationship with the right person. So as a dating coach,

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Speaker 4: my job is to get you dating and dating smarter

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Speaker 4: from every step of the way, from how you market

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Speaker 4: yourself online, how you flirt and how you deal with

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Speaker 4: text and how you deal with sex. And there's a

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Speaker 4: whole curriculum that I've created for women and a community

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Speaker 4: where a whole bunch of people who've been successful at

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Speaker 4: this venture hold your hand through this process, so you're

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Speaker 4: not doing it alone when you don't trust your judgment.

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Speaker 4: So I think there's something wonderful about women in particular.

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Speaker 4: Guys are like, you know, you know, being stereotypical people

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Speaker 4: break up. Women are like what did I do wrong?

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Speaker 4: What could I have done better? How could I have

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Speaker 4: fixed this? How could I have tried harder? And the

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Speaker 4: guys like crazy bitch?

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Speaker 2: And by the way, but that's what I was saying before.

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Speaker 1: You could be great, but you're ahead of your skis, yes,

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Speaker 1: and you scare the shit out of the guy, and

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Speaker 1: you'll never get the chance to see what it could

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Speaker 1: have been.

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Speaker 4: Or you choose a guy who, for all of his qualities,

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Speaker 4: isn't ready for you now and it's not your job

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Speaker 4: to wait for him to change.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you could be texting with someone and maybe they

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Speaker 1: have a job where they're really just not on the

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Speaker 1: phone that much, and you could mess it up because

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Speaker 1: texts could screw everything up and you really don't get

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Speaker 1: to know who the person is.

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Speaker 4: You're right, and I'm as a fifty two year old man,

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty old school. I think we need to resolve

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Speaker 4: things this way. You can't have an important conversation via text,

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Speaker 4: even though it's the most ubiquitous form of communication. I agree,

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Speaker 4: so to your original point. A lot of women that

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Speaker 4: will spend a decade working on themselves and not go

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Speaker 4: on a date, got it. And I don't think you

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Speaker 4: need to do that that I think they go in concert.

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Speaker 2: That's an overcorrection too.

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Speaker 4: Therapy is about your past, and coaching is about your

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Speaker 4: present and future. Love that, so, yes, deal with your

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Speaker 4: past and all your belief systems and limiting beliefs that

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Speaker 4: are holding you back, and simultaneously don't sit on the

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Speaker 4: sidelines waiting for perfection. It's the John Lennon life is

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Speaker 4: what happens when you're making other plans.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you can.

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Speaker 4: I talk to women who have not gone on dates

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Speaker 4: for years and years and years under the idea that

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Speaker 4: if I continue to work on myself, then I'll be

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Speaker 4: ready for him. I genuinely believe this. You don't have

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Speaker 4: to change too. Find love you have to change your

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Speaker 4: choice in men first and foremost. It doesn't mean that

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Speaker 4: there aren't rough edges to sand off, because we could

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Speaker 4: always be better.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to change. You have to change your

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Speaker 1: choice in men. You have to change some of your behavior.

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Speaker 1: You You were about to talk about attachment styles. People

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Speaker 1: have different means of communication and attaching, and men and

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Speaker 1: women sometimes have different and mine would be anxious attachment

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Speaker 1: or anxiety. But I call that like this is the

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Speaker 1: control yourself. Like this is where you have to have

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Speaker 1: guardrails on you. In communication. You could be a fast

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Speaker 1: text or you could be an over communicator. You have

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Speaker 1: to have guardrails. So I think let's talk about this

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Speaker 1: part of it, because I don't think where do I

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Speaker 1: find men is as difficult as when I meet them online?

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Speaker 4: Or what?

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Speaker 1: Now I've got to fish? What am I doing with

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Speaker 1: this fish? Because it's going to wriggle right off? Now

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Speaker 1: I've got a fish, So how am I handling that?

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Speaker 1: So let's do that?

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Speaker 4: Right? No, I think that's really important anxious attachment sign

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Speaker 4: and again you do a really good job of taking

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Speaker 4: complex things and making them accessible. Anxious attachment style is

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Speaker 4: when you don't trust that someone is going to be

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Speaker 4: there for you, because historically they have not been there

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Speaker 4: for you. They have abandoned you, they've disappointed you. So

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Speaker 4: you need a ton of reassurance that that person's going

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Speaker 4: to continue to be there. Nake you feel safe, Yes,

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Speaker 4: well you don't feel that safety. You do more reaching out.

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Speaker 4: You come from a place of fear. You come from

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Speaker 4: a place of scarcity, and that's the thing you're talking

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Speaker 4: about driving someone away. So for anxious attached women who

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Speaker 4: are looking for masculine and energy men right as women

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Speaker 4: often are, you could generally trust a guy will do

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Speaker 4: what he wants. You don't have to remind him you're alive.

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Speaker 4: And so when I was dating my wife seventeen years ago,

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Speaker 4: she never had to call me. She never had to

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Speaker 4: text me. It's not that she couldn't have and I

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Speaker 4: wouldn't have responded. But if I wanted to call her,

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Speaker 4: i'd call her phone that to see her. I'd see her.

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Speaker 4: You let him drive the train and choose you by

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Speaker 4: his own volition instead of trying to pull him into

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Speaker 4: your orbit.

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Speaker 1: But you just made a huge assumption that anybody that

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Speaker 1: has anxious attachment that they're going to act on it.

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Speaker 1: And if you're a really really good chess player and

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Speaker 1: you're like a complicated thinker, you are self aware, you

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Speaker 1: know you're that you haven't labeled it, but you know

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Speaker 1: you might be that type. You're needy or because of

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Speaker 1: your emotions, because of your childhood, but that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you're acting on it. You could be I like, you

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Speaker 1: would never never call a guy, never text the guy.

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Speaker 1: The guy has to call. But if you're seeing that repeatedly,

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Speaker 1: there's like a pad. And sometimes you can scare them

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Speaker 1: away because they think you're like just you're very cold,

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Speaker 1: you're very you know you're not. They'll think you're not

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Speaker 1: interested when you're completely interested, but you just have anxiety inside.

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Speaker 1: So you're trying to completely control the program and they're

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Speaker 1: then freaking out the retreating.

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Speaker 4: That's a great subtle observation. And so what we try

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Speaker 4: to do in coaching is create an environment where any

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Speaker 4: guy would want to be there.

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Speaker 3: We both use a lot of metaphors. Right.

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Speaker 4: I tell women you're the CEO of your love life.

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Speaker 4: Men are interns applying for a job with you. And

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Speaker 4: if you're going to be a company, be Google, be

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Speaker 4: a place where they're giving you free meals and they

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Speaker 4: drive you back and forth from work, and they have

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Speaker 4: people missaging you and your share give someone an experience

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Speaker 4: that they're going to want to come back for more.

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Speaker 4: And so the the tone and the messaging of these

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Speaker 4: emails is not cold. There's nothing that resembles game playing.

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Speaker 4: It's warm, it's enthusiastic. You respond quickly, but you're responding

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Speaker 4: to his needs instead of reaching out. That's one hundred

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Speaker 4: persons distinction. But when he reaches out, oh my god,

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Speaker 4: I'm so glad to see you. Yes, I'm free on

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Speaker 4: Friday night, that was your day. Yeah, So you can

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Speaker 4: still be warm and enthusiastic and all those things that

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Speaker 4: Nan love, but you're allowing him to demonstrate his interest

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Speaker 4: in you, so you don't have to find yourself in

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Speaker 4: that same place of feeling needy.

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Speaker 1: Right, And this is when we're dating. This doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be when you're a full fledged relationship and you

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Speaker 1: feel safe.

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Speaker 4: That goes out the window. When you have a relationship,

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Speaker 4: we throw that out.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, So this is and this is when

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Speaker 1: you're a little bit brief. But like you said, you're

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Speaker 1: not cold, you're not distant, you're not playing game You're

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Speaker 1: not trying to be a bitch. You are warm, but

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Speaker 1: you're also busy, booked them busy and make a plan,

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Speaker 1: But it's how do you feel when you're with the person,

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Speaker 1: and if you create a good experience there. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of women on the date get into their

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Speaker 1: head and start showing their cards about what was happening

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Speaker 1: when off the date, and I think that's where we

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Speaker 1: get tripped up. So a woman like and I've I've

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Speaker 1: had him, I've had him. Man say to me, wait, well,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't even sure you were excited because your texts

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Speaker 1: were like a little brief now they weren't cold. They

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Speaker 1: just were kind of maybe slightly chilly, but like not

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Speaker 1: but still warm.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, no, oh really, what was it?

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Speaker 1: Like? So sweet because you don't want to fall on

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Speaker 1: that trap where they're trying to find something out and

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Speaker 1: then you become needy. They've got all the power and

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Speaker 1: you're doing what you basically would have done on the day.

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Speaker 4: On the text, I think you just unnerve something that's

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Speaker 4: really important part of you being an advanced dater. And

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Speaker 4: if you forget me omittment for making an observation because

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Speaker 4: I don't know you. Well, obviously, I think we can

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Speaker 4: kind of get into our head and overthink this too

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Speaker 4: much and try to turn it into such a science

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Speaker 4: and right where there's this almost this gamification. He said this,

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Speaker 4: and I'm going to say this, and we could dissect it,

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Speaker 4: and it doesn't mean that either you nor I is mistaken.

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Speaker 4: But you know and I know that in real life

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Speaker 4: when people make a connection, everything goes out the window.

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Speaker 1: I totally true being with the right guy totally. That's

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Speaker 1: totally true as well. That's totally true as well. It's

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Speaker 1: just that men don't seem to like overly needy women

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Speaker 1: until they're in a relationship and then they actually need them,

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Speaker 1: they want to be needed.

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Speaker 4: And then there's another wrinkle to this, which is we'll

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Speaker 4: talk about masculine and feminine. Masculine men want to be

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Speaker 4: the ones to pursue you more and more in society, men,

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Speaker 4: especially younger men, are more passive right, waiting for her

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Speaker 4: to call, for her to make the first move. You've

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Speaker 4: seen white lotus like this. This is kind of what

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Speaker 4: happens is men don't act the way men used to

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Speaker 4: wow and women are more off balance. Right California, it's

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Speaker 4: a gatting just a very laid back culture. So he's

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Speaker 4: kind of waiting for her to text, she's waiting for

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Speaker 4: him to text. I'm serious, men, So.

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Speaker 1: Then how are you doing your job when your constructs

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Speaker 1: are the opposite?

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Speaker 4: Because it becomes more complex, I have to find out

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Speaker 4: a what kind of woman I'm dealing with. Is she

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Speaker 4: a woman who is in her masculine or femin Is

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Speaker 4: she comfortable taking the lead. If she is, it's okay,

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Speaker 4: you can call him. If he's the guy who likes that,

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Speaker 4: it might work. You don't want to give top down

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Speaker 4: dating advice that works. I think you know every person

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Speaker 4: hears to every stereotype. So I find out what kind

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Speaker 4: of personality she has, and then I also have to

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Speaker 4: ask her, Hey, on that first date, is this the

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Speaker 4: kind of guy who's like first date closer? Because with

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Speaker 4: that guy, you can't nudge him into calling you. But

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of really nice, sweet guys who are

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Speaker 4: not good at dating. They don't have that swagger, they

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Speaker 4: don't have that confidence. They're not going to make the

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Speaker 4: first move. They'll just kind of hang out with you.

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Speaker 4: They're guys who are often friend zoned guys. You know

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Speaker 4: what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Here's what I think I think that when you get

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Speaker 1: into the swing of dating, you know, and it can't

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Speaker 1: be so black and white. Yes, matchmakers also you want

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Speaker 1: to lean into your feminine and let them be the man,

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Speaker 1: and I get that, but I do think that if

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Speaker 1: ultimately you're looking for a partnership, when you have two people,

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Speaker 1: the best ideas should win. Like, let's pretend, Okay, so

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Speaker 1: I'm a public person. Let's say I date someone who's

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Speaker 1: not a public person, and I'm able to like get

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Speaker 1: the reservation because it's a great place. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to be like not presenting that. It's the way that

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Speaker 1: you present it. Now that's obviously not as relatable. But

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Speaker 1: I'm saying there are some women that are strong personalities,

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Speaker 1: and maybe they're more organized, and maybe the guy is

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Speaker 1: great at other things. Maybe he's really great at the

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Speaker 1: map or great at play, you know, once you're on

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Speaker 1: the trip, but the woman's better at planning it. I

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Speaker 1: think you kind of have to find the rhythm. As

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Speaker 1: long as it's an equal partnership, both no one feels

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Speaker 1: emasculated or demoralized, where both people feel like they have

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Speaker 1: value to the situation and also are receiving value from

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Speaker 1: the situation.

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Speaker 4: I think that's really great. And on top of that,

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Speaker 4: it is one of the things I thought we were

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Speaker 4: going to lead with today. Because I'm a dating coach

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Speaker 4: for smart, strength, strong, successful women, That's one of the

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Speaker 4: things that comes up all the time. If I'm in

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Speaker 4: the ninety ninth percentile, how do I deal with men

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Speaker 4: who don't have that?

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Speaker 3: Couldn't have that?

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Speaker 4: Can I only date in the tiny, tiny percentile of

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Speaker 4: men who are richer or smarter than I am?

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Speaker 3: What does this mean for all the rest of the guys.

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Speaker 4: And it sounds like you've had enough life experience to

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Speaker 4: kind of actually figure that out. It's about how you

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Speaker 4: make him feel. He has to be secure enough on

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Speaker 4: his own right. You can't just give a guy that.

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Speaker 4: There are going to be people who can't handle that,

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Speaker 4: but they self eliminate.

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Speaker 1: They self eliminate, But you have to find out if

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Speaker 1: there is a genuine value that that person provides in

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Speaker 1: the relationship, not just that they'll stay home with the

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Speaker 1: kids if you get married, meaning like that there's a

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Speaker 1: genuine value add in a relationship, meaning it could be

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Speaker 1: a partnership, just like a business partnership, which doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be some person's operations and logistics and doing things

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Speaker 1: that you might not never want to do, and you

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Speaker 1: have the vision in the marketing, Like each person likes

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Speaker 1: what they're doing, and one may be more sexy. But

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Speaker 1: I think that women often some women date down sometimes

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Speaker 1: and then like later it catches up with them because

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Speaker 1: it seems like a good idea in the beginning.

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Speaker 4: I agree, And again, let's let's both and that okay, right,

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Speaker 4: if you're ninety ninth percentile, technically virtually everything is dating down.

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Speaker 4: Now if a man was in the ninety ninth percentile,

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Speaker 4: would we ever say he's dating down to be with

436
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 4: a woman.

437
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: I'm not even I don't even think the money means

438
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 1: dating down. It could be that a person is extremely

439
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: like really going to help you, like, let's say, with

440
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 1: your business, or really is an amazing chef that like

441
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: cooks amazing meals and you want your kids to be

442
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 1: helped like. I don't think that that would be dating

443
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: down just because of money. I think dating down is

444
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: if I think a really rich guy that's richer than you,

445
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 1: that it is a mess who's not willing to work

446
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: on himself or work on the relationship, but just expects

447
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: it that's dating down.

448
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 2: So I don't think it has to do with money.

449
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 4: We're speaking the same language. But I think a lot

450
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 4: of people, I mean, certainly our generation, our parents' generation.

451
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,959
Speaker 4: My mom got married when she was twenty one. She

452
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 4: went from her father's home and to my dad's home.

453
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 4: She was a stay at home mom, and then worked

454
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 4: part time when my dad had some tough times. I mean,

455
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 4: it's a very very traditional middle class thing. Now women

456
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 4: are making as much as men in over forty percent

457
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 4: of marriages where there are making more than men. Whomen

458
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 4: are getting more degrees, more advanced degrees, and there's lots

459
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 4: being written about a lot of think pieces about what's the.

460
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: Role of men.

461
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 4: If I don't need a man, what are they even

462
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 4: there for? You're right, they have to bring some value.

463
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 4: And to me, when I look at how what my

464
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 4: wife brought to me, it wasn't an advanced degree and

465
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 4: it wasn't money. She's the first person I ever met

466
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 4: who loved me unconditionally, who accepted me completely for who

467
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 4: I was, without trying to change me. That was her

468
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 4: unique value proposition. After three hundred online dates, and I

469
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 4: think if more people paid attention to that feeling, we

470
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 4: might have happier relationships because I don't think there's anything

471
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 4: much more important now.

472
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: And you know, I always say, never settlest on what

473
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: you deserve and like someone's only going to give you

474
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: what you're willing to accept.

475
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: And I really believe that stuff.

476
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: Here's something that I want that has happened to me

477
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: a couple of times and it's really served me, and

478
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: you probably have a name for it and you've experienced it.

479
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: So let's say you're in something, you're dating someone and

480
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: you like each other, but it's not making you feel

481
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 1: the way you need to feel, like you're kind of

482
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: settling in some way, it's just not at the level

483
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 1: where you need it to be. This is what I

484
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: have done a couple of times and it has worked.

485
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: But you have to be willing to walk if it

486
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 1: doesn't work. And it's not a game. It's literally the

487
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: opposite of insecure or of a game. It's just being

488
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: completely secure. Where years ago, there was this guy and

489
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: he was a player, and you know, and I I

490
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: he was a player, And it happened the next time

491
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: with the same type of person, a real player had

492
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: never really had a girlfriend, and we were dating and

493
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: we really connected, and it was amazing when we together,

494
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: and the fooling around was amazing, the physical was amazing,

495
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: All of it was amazing, and the humor like it was,

496
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: it was elevated. But then when we would separate, it

497
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: would be almost like you took three steps back. You

498
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: took one, two steps forward, three steps back, and then

499
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,719
Speaker 1: maybe the next time you're supposed to date, you're kind

500
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: of waiting around and the person hasn't called by a

501
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: certain time of the day. You just didn't like the

502
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 1: way it made you feel. You kind of felt like

503
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: the floor could fall out at any time. You just

504
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: didn't feel like it was evolving. And this guy called

505
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: like at the late afternoons, like we're still on for tonight,

506
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: which is fine, but like it wasn't like the comfort

507
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: level of where we were intimately. It wasn't making me

508
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: feel good. And I said, and you have to find

509
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: the way to say it so it doesn't give desperate

510
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: and needy, and it gives confidence. It's like a woman

511
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,239
Speaker 1: cutting her hair short but rocking it. I said, I

512
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: always need to be evolving. If it's in business, if

513
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: it's a friendship, I don't Because he said, I don't want.

514
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 2: A serious relationship.

515
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: I said, okay, well, I'm not looking to get engaged,

516
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: but I don't want to be investing in someone if

517
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: I don't see an evolution in some way, because that's

518
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: just not what I'm looking for. And he was like, well,

519
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: I don't want something serious, and I was like, no problem,

520
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: we can call it. This is what I need like

521
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: and I had to be willing to walk because if

522
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: he was will and I kept saying, but wait, but

523
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: like we like being together and we like this. I'm like, right,

524
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: I feel like we take two steps forward and three

525
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: steps back, and I just won't ever settle for less

526
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: than what I deserve.

527
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: And we went back and forth.

528
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: It had to be fifteen twenty minutes circles and I'm like,

529
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: don't worry, then call it. If you can't do it,

530
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: then go and he ended up folding. He goes, all right,

531
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: let's try this, and it ended up being a very successful,

532
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: very long, very deep relationship on the first one of

533
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: it's kind for him.

534
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: And what I'm.

535
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: Saying is it's like in business, if you feel like

536
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: the deal is not going to give you what you

537
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: need and you'll later end up presenting it, you gotta

538
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: walk and it's so hard, but that confidence could end

539
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: up making the relationship really successful because the person respects you. Like, wait,

540
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: even if this person knows how into them you are,

541
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: like you have exhibited and you might say it more

542
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: in this conversation. I am really into you and I

543
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: like the way I feel. But I'm into my You know,

544
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to settle for less. So where do

545
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: you stand on that concept, the pride of like who

546
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: you are and what you're willing to take.

547
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 4: I think it's a really good anecdote. I think it

548
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 4: falls squarely under the idea that you're the CEO and

549
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 4: he's at the intern. The problem is when you let

550
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 4: the man set the terms, When you let the intern

551
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 4: set the terms of the agreement and he says, you

552
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 4: know what I want. I want the job where I

553
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 4: could work once a week. I'm just going to come

554
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 4: into the office. I'm going to come in for three hours.

555
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 4: I'll do great work.

556
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 3: You'll enjoy it.

557
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: You're saying, that's what the guy was saying to me,

558
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't want something serious.

559
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: He was doing what you did.

560
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 3: That's what That's what guys always say, right, Okay, got it?

561
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 4: How little can I give that you'll say yes, interesting.

562
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: And women give away their power of the No. This

563
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 3: is my company.

564
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: That's brilliant, brilliant.

565
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 4: If you want a job at this company, I don't

566
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 4: know that you're going to have the quarter office and tenure.

567
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going to happen, but I do

568
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 4: want someone who really wants to be here. And what

569
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 4: does that look like from a boyfriend. You're gonna call

570
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: me every day to see each other two three times

571
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 4: a week. We're going to spend weekends together. We're going

572
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: to meet each other's friends and family. It's going to

573
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 4: be an integrated relationship. Then we're going to explore a future.

574
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 4: If that's not in your interest, you're not the guy

575
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 4: for this job. No hard feelings. You look cute in

576
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 4: the Brooks Brothers suit, you got an amazing resume, wonderful

577
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 4: interview that pooh, what an interview, But you're not a

578
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 4: good long term candidate for this job. That's brilliant, and

579
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 4: I am looking for long term candidates. If you keep

580
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 4: on taking on interns who dictate the terms, you're never

581
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 4: going to be happy. Yes,