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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool People distract themselves from the

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Speaker 2: apocalypse by reading history. Your podcast for reading history instead

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Speaker 2: of thinking about the apocalypse. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 2: and that's always what this show is called. And also

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Speaker 2: I have a guest, but the guest is sort of

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Speaker 2: the host, and that guest is Jordan.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Jordan, Hello, how's this totally different day? This is that

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Speaker 2: bit's kind of old. Everyone knows that we record on

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Speaker 2: the same day, and then I just find that amusing.

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Speaker 3: I like the little peak behind the curtain.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm glad today I get to be

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Speaker 4: the time traveler instead of being time traveled on that's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't have to wait until today in

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Speaker 2: order to hear all these things.

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Speaker 3: I get to hear them now.

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Speaker 2: But the other person who is on the call is

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Speaker 2: Sophie Hi. Sophie Hi. Sophie's our producer. It's we also

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Speaker 2: have an audio engineer named Rory.

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Speaker 3: Rory him Rory, And.

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Speaker 2: Our theme music was written forced by on Woman. And

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Speaker 2: this is part two of a two parter about the

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Speaker 2: anti fascist black history of the going from resistance in

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Speaker 2: the slave nightmare world of the United States. Over to

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Speaker 2: I always hear people say the sands of Spain. I

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Speaker 2: haven't spent a lot of time in Spain. Maybe there's

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Speaker 2: a sands there.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know too much about the topography of

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Speaker 4: Spain either, but I never really think sand, you know what.

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Speaker 2: It's come up in a bunch of different things. So

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Speaker 2: we're gonna say the sands of Spain anyway, just out

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Speaker 2: of because it sounds romantic. This is part two, and

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Speaker 2: in part one, let's see, our heroes just crossed the

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Speaker 2: Pyrenees from uh, what was it, from Mississippi originally up

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Speaker 2: to harm.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of them are from Mississippi, some from Midwest.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of Ohio involvement in this story that

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Speaker 4: I was not expecting.

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Speaker 3: Makes sense, I know, right.

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Speaker 4: I'm like when you did that episode on the I

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Speaker 4: can't even remember about Oberlin and all that stuff. It's

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Speaker 4: like Oberlin's takes a lot of game, but no one

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Speaker 4: here believes them, but maybe we should.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it used to be Ohio, dude, come bring it back,

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Speaker 2: bring back that energy. And now they are crossing the

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Speaker 2: Pyrenees into Spain. What happens?

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Speaker 4: Well, I kind of want to take it back again

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Speaker 4: to talk about some of the okay, yeah, yeah, not

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Speaker 4: just yet, not yet. So kind of the talk before

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Speaker 4: is like there is a lot of history around, like

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Speaker 4: the racial politics of the Communist Party at this time,

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Speaker 4: and like ways that they were taking a lot of dubs,

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Speaker 4: also a lot of ls. But one dub they did

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Speaker 4: in this too is I've inferred from context.

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Speaker 2: When the dub is I'm old, but I figured it out,

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Speaker 2: it's short for w yes, I mean to win.

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Speaker 1: Okay, uh oh, magpie, So you're so pure, I'm good?

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Speaker 4: Is there every time you have a pop culture reference

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Speaker 4: you don't get I feel you on that because I

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Speaker 4: don't either half the time.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just like, okay, they're still solid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So they've they've taken some wins and some losses.

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Speaker 4: And one of their big wins was they did as

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Speaker 4: a lot of communists do. As soon as they heard

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Speaker 4: about the Republic needing people, they formed a committee. They

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Speaker 4: formed a committee and they had a volunteer drive that

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Speaker 4: was mainly through word of mouth and through ads. And

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Speaker 4: what I find really interesting is this use of media

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Speaker 4: in how they basically the way they got their ads

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Speaker 4: into newspapers through kind of like this embargo on any

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Speaker 4: American citizens having any involvement in Spanish Civil War was

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Speaker 4: they put in ads into newspapers that were asking for

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Speaker 4: workers for Spain. So they would say something along the

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Speaker 4: lines of Spain needs American workers, and they would like

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Speaker 4: ask for money to help send people across, and they'd

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Speaker 4: be like, your contribution help save Spain from fascism. Hard

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Speaker 4: pressed by the fascist invaders, the Spanish people call on

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Speaker 4: the American workers to take on They would claim that

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Speaker 4: they would take on like industrial or productive jobs in

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Speaker 4: Spain so that each worker from America would free up

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Speaker 4: a Spanish worker to join the military forces of his

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Speaker 4: own country. Like that was like the logic they were

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Speaker 4: using in the ads that would help them get through censorship,

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Speaker 4: which I think is really beautiful. It kind of reminds

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Speaker 4: me of the different ways that like through music and

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Speaker 4: song there was like literally pathways to freedom, like through

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Speaker 4: the underground railroad and through so many other different things.

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Speaker 4: It's like, if you know, you know, this may be

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Speaker 4: a poem to you, but it's getting me northwest, south

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Speaker 4: and east to the Ohio River.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. I also I think it's productive labor to

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Speaker 2: shoot fascists in history. Only in history. It would be

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Speaker 2: morally and legally wrong now for some reason that I

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Speaker 2: can't quite determined.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, in getting to Spain, a lot of volunteers,

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Speaker 4: and especially a lot of black volunteers, they had to

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Speaker 4: lie heavy. They lie their ass off. They were saying

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Speaker 4: we went to we were tourists or students. Some of

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Speaker 4: them like pretended to be archaeologists to the point that

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Speaker 4: they were scared of the FEDS watching them, or like

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Speaker 4: international police like talking. So they would like pick up

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Speaker 4: rocks outside of the train station and like look at

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Speaker 4: it to each other and be like, oh, isn't this

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Speaker 4: an interesting rock? And it was really a lot of

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Speaker 4: heavy organizing happening with the Communist Party as well. And

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Speaker 4: there's this one white communist his name is Steve Nelson

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Speaker 4: and he was from Pennsylvania. And one of their motivators

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Speaker 4: was they heard that the English were signing up, and

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Speaker 4: they were like, we can't let the English outorganize us,

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Speaker 4: so we have to send our own volunteers to Spain.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. For the main focus of this episode.

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Speaker 4: I just wanted to highlight a lot of the black

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Speaker 4: anti fat that went over to Spain and really harp

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Speaker 4: on the point that fighting fascism is not just about

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Speaker 4: the combatant, and for every combatant, there's at least ten

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Speaker 4: to twenty other support roles or even just as important

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Speaker 4: roles that are happening. So to start, I want to

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Speaker 4: talk about Paul Robison born in Princeton, New Jersey. Robison

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Speaker 4: was an internationally rerounded singer, actor, activist, and he became

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Speaker 4: one of the most influential African American figures in the

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Speaker 4: twentieth century. Active throughout the nineteen thirties, Robison used his

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Speaker 4: celebrity and oratorical skills to champion the Republican cause in

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Speaker 4: Spain during the Civil War. Although he wasn't a combatant,

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Speaker 4: Robison's powerful speeches and writings, featured in outlets like The

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Speaker 4: Negro Worker at the time, provided a moral and cultural

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Speaker 4: impetus for anti fascist resistance, and it was a fight

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Speaker 4: between freedom and oppression, a fight that connected directly to

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Speaker 4: the struggles of black people in the United States and

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Speaker 4: across the world. Robison has famously said, and I grab

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Speaker 4: this quote from Martin Duberman's book Robson, which is a biography,

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Speaker 4: and he said quote, the artists must elect to fight

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Speaker 4: for freedom or slavery.

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Speaker 3: I have made my choice.

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Speaker 4: I have no alternative end quote, and Robison used his voice.

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Speaker 4: He traveled to Spain in nineteen thirty eight at the

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Speaker 4: height of the war, where he performed for the troops

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Speaker 4: and especially finding joy and singing and speaking with the

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Speaker 4: international volunteers of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. He sang songs

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Speaker 4: in English Spanish, songs of hope, solidarity, resistance, and it

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Speaker 4: wasn't just a show.

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Speaker 3: Wait was that? Sorry?

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Speaker 2: The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was the American volunteers, Yes, And.

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Speaker 4: The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was the American volunteers. And specifically,

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Speaker 4: each brigade had like their own name for their volunteers

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Speaker 4: that were based on some progressive or radical person at

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Speaker 4: the time. There was a lot other countries had a

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Speaker 4: lot better names than the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. To be honest,

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Speaker 4: because I just fact check, hate linking, terrible, terrible person.

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Speaker 4: Right after that Emancipation Proclamation sixty four, li Cota is dead,

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Speaker 4: So yeah, fuck Lincoln on this podcast, but no critical support.

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Speaker 4: But Robertson was like, oh, the brigade, the brigades chill

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Speaker 4: and he believed his art was a weapon, and his

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Speaker 4: concerts were morale boosters for the exhausted soldiers risking everything

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Speaker 4: against Franco's fascist He also raised funds for Spanish refugees,

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Speaker 4: organized rallies back in the States, and worked to keep

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Speaker 4: up the international attention on the Spanish people's fights. When

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Speaker 4: he got home, he kept speaking out, drawing direct lines

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Speaker 4: between the fascism abroad and all the racism at home,

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Speaker 4: and he warned that if fascism succeeded in Spain, it

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Speaker 4: would threaten people everywhere, especially black people fighting Jim Crow

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Speaker 4: oppression in the US. The US and the FBI hated

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Speaker 4: him for it. His activism in Spain would later be

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Speaker 4: used against him during the McCarthy era when he was

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Speaker 4: blacklisted and then eventually had his passport revoked, which I

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Speaker 4: believe it wasn't until fifty eight I'll get into it later,

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Speaker 4: but until he got it back, and that was a

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Speaker 4: landmark case for a lot of American Spanish Civil War

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Speaker 4: vets that came back to get their passports back to

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Speaker 4: be able to have any sort of traveling. Another wonderful

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Speaker 4: person that came out of Ohio, Well, they're from Georgia.

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Speaker 4: But came out of Ohio. Was Salaria key. Actually, I

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Speaker 4: guess now they're salari a key O'Reilly because she married

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Speaker 4: an Irish dude born on July thirteenth, nineteen thirteen in Georgia,

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Speaker 4: and her father was a hospital gardener who was killed

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Speaker 4: by a patient when she was a baby, prompting the

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Speaker 4: family to relocate to Akron, and she was raised by

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Speaker 4: her older brothers fighting racist barriers in Ohio that had

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Speaker 4: denied her access to nursing school. She then moved to

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Speaker 4: New York in nineteen thirties, graduating from Harlem Hospital, a

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Speaker 4: school of nursing, in thirty four. While she was still

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Speaker 4: a student, she fought for racial justice, successfully helping desegregate

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Speaker 4: the hospital staff, dining room, and improve working conditions for

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Speaker 4: black nurses.

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Speaker 2: So she's already doing good shit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

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Speaker 4: And she was the person who I mentioned at the

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Speaker 4: beginning that during the Ethiopian invasion by Italy organized funding

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Speaker 4: for a seventy five bed hospital in Ethiopia at the.

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Speaker 3: Time, So I was doing a lot of that on

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Speaker 3: the groundwork. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And after her graduation, she became one of the head

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Speaker 4: nurses at Seaview Hospital and then became really politically activated.

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Speaker 4: Some people claim she joined the party by the party,

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Speaker 4: I mean the Communist Party of the USA, but she

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Speaker 4: has formally denied any membership, really, claiming that her actions

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Speaker 4: were more motivated by her deep Catholic faith, in anti

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Speaker 4: racist convictions and in ideological alignment with the Republican Spain.

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Speaker 4: And around this time, she was also denied access to

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Speaker 4: work with the American Red Cross because of her race,

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Speaker 4: being quote like contentious in the field. Like the supervisor

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Speaker 4: was like, I'm not racist, but people on the ground

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Speaker 4: are really racists, so you can't have the job.

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Speaker 1: One.

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Speaker 2: That's the only time that anything like that's ever happened.

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Speaker 2: It's so obviously hypocritical. None would ever do that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah no, and I mean that stopped after nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 4: so writes out, I mean nothing, j Jimcrow ended and yeah,

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Speaker 4: actually we're kind of chilling America.

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Speaker 3: We can end the podcast right here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Key's political consciousness deepened after the Italian evasion in

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Speaker 4: nineteen thirty five, which became a catalyst for her and

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Speaker 4: her anti fascist activism. She denied opportunities to serve in Ethiopia,

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Speaker 4: but she also at that time was more dedicated of

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Speaker 4: doing local work in her community and trying to then

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Speaker 4: do solidarity work, which was the impetus for doing the

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Speaker 4: stuff that she knew well, which was working as a

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Speaker 4: medical worker and organizing folks around that to get support

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Speaker 4: that was needed on the ground in Ethiopia. Later, she

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Speaker 4: ended up vauling tearing for the Spanish Civil War through

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Speaker 4: the American Medical Bureau, joining the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in

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Speaker 4: nineteen thirty seven around March and she became the only

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Speaker 4: African American nurse in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, working at

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Speaker 4: a field hospital near Madrid called via Paz, where she

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Speaker 4: was appointed head surgical nurse. There she supervised white nurses,

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Speaker 4: an unprecedented opportunity for a black woman in the Jim

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Speaker 4: Crow era from the United States especially, and treated wounded

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Speaker 4: soldiers from a variety of countries, experiences she later described

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Speaker 4: as among the most fulfilling of her life. She was

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Speaker 4: also captured at one point by Nationalist forces and imprisoned

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Speaker 4: for six weeks before being freed. Also in the Spanish

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Speaker 4: Civil War is where she met her husband, John O'Reilly,

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Speaker 4: who was an injured Irish volunteer and I can only

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Speaker 4: imagine what that love story was, Like, I want a

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Speaker 4: movie on that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In thirty eight, she was also injured in a bombing raid,

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Speaker 4: forcing her to return to the US. That same year,

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Speaker 4: she published a pamphlet memoir called Salary a Key, a

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Speaker 4: Negro nurse in Republic in Spain, offering more of a

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Speaker 4: first hand account of her time in that war that

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Speaker 4: I highly recommend for folks.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's interesting because we talk about all

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Speaker 2: the time, like, oh, well they weren't you know, the

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Speaker 2: nurses aren't the front line fighters, and like in a

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Speaker 2: war like this, you are a frontline fighter. She was captured,

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Speaker 2: she was bombed, Like she's a frontline fighter you have

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Speaker 2: to go through, I know. And it's also like a

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Speaker 2: nonsensical distinction anyway, but like, damn, I'm glad she survived.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And she's also mentioned in some documentaries

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Speaker 4: out there that folks can watch, I think one called

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Speaker 4: The Good Fight where she's interviewed in that directly. There's

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Speaker 4: also another person, Canut Frankson, who was a Jamaican born

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Speaker 4: auto mechanic and volunteer and one of the few black

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Speaker 4: members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade as well which overall

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Speaker 4: there was about ninety total black folks that went over

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Speaker 4: from the US that we can like count. And he

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Speaker 4: wrote a lot of letters. One quote from one is

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Speaker 4: quote the Negro of the United States must not be fools.

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Speaker 4: We must not forget the lynchings, the Scottsboro Boys, the

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Speaker 4: injustice in Harlem and in the South. Franco was not

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Speaker 4: only the enemy of the Spanish people, he is the

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Speaker 4: enemy of the Negro people of the entire world.

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Speaker 3: And that comes from a letter he.

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Speaker 4: Was writing, I believe, to his lover at the time

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Speaker 4: or friends back home in the States, when kind of

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Speaker 4: justifying why he went and came, because he was already

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Speaker 4: doing political work before. But like a lot of people,

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Speaker 4: you don't tell everyone where you're going. When you're going

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Speaker 4: to go fight in the anti fascist war halfway across

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Speaker 4: the world.

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Speaker 3: People might stop you. Your mom might be like no.

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Speaker 4: But he came to the United States and around nineteen seventeen,

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Speaker 4: initially settling around in Pennsylvania where he worked as a machinist,

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Speaker 4: and he eventually then moved on to Detroit, Michigan, where

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Speaker 4: he worked in the automobile industry and became deeply involved

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Speaker 4: in the labor organizing and black radical politics of the area.

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Speaker 4: He was a member of the United Automobile Workers of America,

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Speaker 4: the National Negro Congress INAACP, and joined the Immunist Party

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Speaker 4: USA in December nineteen thirty four, where he served as

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Speaker 4: a section organizer. Driven by his anti fascist convictions and

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Speaker 4: solidarity with oppressed people globally, he sailed over to Europe

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Speaker 4: on the Queen Mary and April nineteen thirty seven, arriving

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Speaker 4: in Spain and around May and he joined the International

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Speaker 4: Brigades and was assigned to the International Auto Park in

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Speaker 4: Albaset as a chief mechanic, a crucial position given the

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Speaker 4: shortage of trained machinists in Spain at the time.

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Speaker 2: So he actually kind of was doing what the ads said,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like more directly in a

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Speaker 2: military function. But yeah, that's cool because like Detroit is

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Speaker 2: like the center of automobiles, at least in the States

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Speaker 2: and probably on some level like one of the main

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Speaker 2: ones in the world. So you're like, yeah, I'm fucking

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Speaker 2: showing up from the fucking Detroit Union to come fix

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Speaker 2: the anti fascist cars. That's like, that's kind of cool.

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Speaker 4: And then immediately became the head mechanic, and also part

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Speaker 4: of that was because he spoke fluent Spanish, which enabled

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Speaker 4: him to teach engine repair to young Spaniards, and his

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Speaker 4: off hours demanding a commitment to not just the war efforts,

302
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Speaker 4: but education and solidarity, so he was keeping it running.

303
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Speaker 4: He eventually got injured, as everyone in a war front

304
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Speaker 4: has the possibility of doing no matter where you are,

305
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Speaker 4: whether you have the gun in your hand or you

306
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Speaker 4: have the wrench in your hand. Also, he was transferred

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Speaker 4: around different hospitals, recommended for rest and reassignment to auxiliary services,

308
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Speaker 4: and then eventually moved to Barcelona and thirty eight and

309
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Speaker 4: requested repatriation for medical treatment, and then returned to the US.

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Speaker 4: I believe he eventually left again the US because shit

311
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Speaker 4: was hectic, But he is definitely a story of someone

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Speaker 4: who survived the war and went on to go and

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Speaker 4: still do so much more.

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Speaker 3: And that's something.

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Speaker 4: With all of these people, I am giving the loosest introductions.

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Speaker 4: And then another black anti fascist I want to talk

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Speaker 4: about is Edward Carter, who was born in nineteen sixteen

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles, but he grew up all over the world, India, Shanghai,

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Speaker 4: and the US. His parents were missionaries, and from early

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Speaker 4: on he saw colonialism and racism firsthand. He spoke four

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Speaker 4: different languages, Hindi, English, Mandarin, and German, and even as

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Speaker 4: a teenager, he knew his life would be about fighting injustice.

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Speaker 4: By the time he was a young man, he had

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Speaker 4: already joined the fight against fascism, not in Europe but

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Speaker 4: in Asia. He fought alongside Chinese forces resisting Japanese invasion

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Speaker 4: during the nineteen thirties. But Carter wasn't done. When fascism

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Speaker 4: rose in Europe. He knew he had to do more.

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Speaker 4: He was strong, smart, and seasoned in battle, and Spain

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Speaker 4: wasn't just another war for him. There was a global

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Speaker 4: fight in the fight for freedom and for black people,

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Speaker 4: working people, and oppressed people everywhere. He also ended up

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Speaker 4: going past Spain into World War Two, and despite his

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Speaker 4: experience in fighting against the Japanese and fighting in Spanish

334
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Speaker 4: Civil War, the US military tried to keep Carter out

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Speaker 4: because of one racism and two he had fought in Spain,

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Speaker 4: which was an issue for a lot of Spanish anti

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Speaker 4: fascist who then went to go fight in World War

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Speaker 4: Two was that they were seen as too radical.

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Speaker 2: Wait, have you have you heard the word that they

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Speaker 2: got called. No, they're called premature anti fascists, like you

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Speaker 2: were anti fascist too early, you can't be trusted.

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Speaker 4: And it's it's so weird to me that that was

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Speaker 4: actually used as a pejorative, and it's yeah, it's yeah,

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Speaker 4: not as weird to me because I'm like, the US

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Speaker 4: was never really anti fascist, even when we joined World

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Speaker 4: War Two. It's because our territory got bombed and then

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Speaker 4: we decided to recognize Hawaii as a state, Like then afterwards.

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Speaker 3: It became more of a big thing. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: He ended up going into the World War Two, though

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Speaker 4: still in a segregated unit, the twelfth Armored Division, and

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Speaker 4: fighting in Europe, and he became a legend. During the

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Speaker 4: battle in Germany, Carter crossed open ground under heavy enemy

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Speaker 4: fire and he was hit five times but kept moving.

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Speaker 4: He killed six German soldiers and captured two more. Were

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Speaker 4: almost single handedly. Always got to have solidarity, and his

356
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Speaker 4: commanders knew that he deserved the Medal of Honor, the

357
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Speaker 4: highest US military award, but because he was black, he

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Speaker 4: was denied. Instead, they gave him the Distinguished Service Cross

359
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Speaker 4: and pushed him out of the army after the war.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

361
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Speaker 4: Yeah, he died sixty three and was never recognizing this

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Speaker 4: time by the military.

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Speaker 3: Or any institution.

364
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Speaker 4: But decades later, you know, first black President Bill Clinton

365
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 4: had to come up and be like ward him the

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Speaker 4: Medal of Honor and the America's highest military award, and

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Speaker 4: like made him the first black soldier, like I think

368
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Speaker 4: technically to receive it, but one of the first, which yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's one of those those crazy, crazy things.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just like, okay, but do you know what

371
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 2: he didn't get where she probably was inundated by ads,

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Speaker 2: you know what he did get much like you, we

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Speaker 2: have something in common with that man. We too have

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Speaker 2: a chance to have a little taste of American freedom

375
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Speaker 2: by getting our choice of well, we actually don't have

376
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Speaker 2: our choice.

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Speaker 3: In our ads. I don't know.

378
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Speaker 2: There's some ads gonna come now and they're going to

379
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Speaker 2: be there.

380
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Speaker 3: And we're back.

381
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Speaker 4: Hello, Yay, we're back, and we're still in Spain.

382
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Speaker 3: Back to Spain.

383
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 4: And then there was James Yeates, who I used heavily

384
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 4: to quote and put a lot of context and emotional

385
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Speaker 4: context for this piece here. He came in and immediately

386
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Speaker 4: joined the Motor Corps. He transported food and medicine to

387
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Speaker 4: the front lines under fire. What was interesting about him

388
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 4: is he started doing food delivery under the Thalman Brigade,

389
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Speaker 4: which was the German Brigade at the time, and.

390
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Speaker 2: The German Anti fascist Internationalist Brigade.

391
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Speaker 4: Yeah, German anti fascist Brigade, and he was kind of

392
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 4: salty about it at first. He was like, I wanted

393
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Speaker 4: to be with Americans, mainly because I can't speak German

394
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 4: and this is really stressful in a war situation wherever

395
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 4: like go here, do this, and I'm like uh. But

396
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 4: then eventually he ended up also serving as a ambulance driver,

397
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 4: which was so vital, like they would drive into war

398
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 4: torn places as things were happening, get folks in and

399
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 4: bring them back to the medical station while bullets were

400
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 4: still flying around and all that stuff. Yates ended up

401
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 4: being injured in one of these runs when aerial bombing

402
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 4: and offenses were going on, and that led to them

403
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 4: going back to the US kind of near the end

404
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 4: of the Spanish Civil War. And then there was doctor

405
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 4: Arnold Donahah, which I could write his own introduction, but

406
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 4: I just think this little context from Yates' books introducing

407
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 4: him and about some of the doctor's experience on what

408
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 4: doing medicine in the Spanish Civil War was like is

409
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 4: great context for folks to keep in mind, so from

410
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 4: Mississippi to Madrid. James Yates writes about doctor Arnold Donohah

411
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 4: as such, quote a well known dental surgeon from Harlem

412
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Speaker 4: and a graduate of Howard University. He was one of

413
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Speaker 4: one hundred doctors, nurses and ambulance drivers from the American

414
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 4: Medical Bureau. Doctor Donihah left Albacet for a grilling period

415
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 4: of work at the front, and after that he was

416
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Speaker 4: given charge of the jaw surgery department at Valkyrae. Later,

417
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 4: doctor Donihah was to talk about some of the conditions

418
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Speaker 4: in Spain during the war. Quote we suffered above all

419
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Speaker 4: from a lack of instruments and supplies needed for adequate surgery.

420
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Speaker 4: Frequently we didn't have enough gauze and bandage to dress

421
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 4: the wounds of men. There was such a great scarcity

422
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Speaker 4: of the elementary medical supplies that we had to unwind

423
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 4: the bandage of one man had used, have it washed

424
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 4: and boiled, and then rewind it and use it again

425
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 4: on another patient. Sometimes it was hard to get the

426
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 4: old bloodstains entirely out, but we managed to sterilize the

427
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 4: old bandages and make it fit for use. We did

428
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 4: not have a dry of novacaine in the hospital, and

429
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 4: I thought we might be able to get some with

430
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 4: the move and I did, but not enough, only a

431
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 4: thousand amples. This, as well as many other indispensable drugs,

432
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 4: were almost unobtainable in Spain in those final days. There

433
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 4: were so many items things we had taken for granted

434
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: back at home, we lacked in Spain. To reduce jaw fractures,

435
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 4: for example, we need a special kind of very thin

436
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 4: stainless steel wire. If I had just a pound of it,

437
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 4: we could have relieved the crisis at a hospital for months.

438
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 4: But we didn't have it, nor do we have any

439
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 4: X ray films. We had to work by touch to

440
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 4: determine the number of fractures. End quote.

441
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 3: Damn.

442
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: Imagine getting your You're like wounded. I mean, I guess

443
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: you have bigger I guess if you're in a war.

444
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: Everything is bad. But imagine being like, ah, I'm wounded,

445
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to the hospital. I'm finally at the hospital.

446
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: That bandage that has been wrapped around me is currently bloody,

447
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 2: like it's an old stain right, But there's.

448
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 4: No peace of mind, no point of service of like

449
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: a piece of mine at all. According to James Yates,

450
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 4: after the war, he had returned to his dental practice

451
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 4: in Harlem and had donated his time to returning veterans

452
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 4: of the Spanish Civil War because it was also very hard.

453
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 4: I mean, we all know healthcare in America, imagine one

454
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 4: hundred years ago, imagine being black. So it was one

455
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 4: of those things that he still organized with and around

456
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 4: while he was back home. And in nineteen forty five

457
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 4: he was elected the president of the North Harlem Dental

458
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 4: Association and advocated for socialized medicine that would guarantee medical

459
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 4: protection for all Americans.

460
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 2: Which is ahead of its time and still not happened.

461
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly.

462
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 4: And there were people that came in to do so

463
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 4: many different roles in the Spanish Civil War, Like there

464
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 4: was a lot more labor than just picking up a

465
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: gun for Spain. Pat Roosevelt was a pilot who joined

466
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 4: the brigade after being barred from flying in the US

467
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 4: due to racism, and he simply went over just because

468
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 4: he said, cool, I went to Spain because I want

469
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 4: to fly. And that's from a conversation they had in

470
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 4: Mississippi to Madrid with James Yeates.

471
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, and even cooking like.

472
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 4: Is extremely revolutionary, and like sustaining ourselves and having that

473
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 4: sort of ability to have an energy source just on

474
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 4: a basic material level, let alone breaking bread with people

475
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 4: is powerful in and of itself. But there was James

476
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 4: Robertson who was a black cook from the South in

477
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 4: the United States, and he would feed hundreds with not

478
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: only the rations that were provided by the war efforts,

479
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 4: but also by foraging whenever he could and teaching other

480
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 4: folks how to forage. And it was said that he

481
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 4: quote made the best olive pie and all of Spain.

482
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 4: So that's something right there. It is like they even

483
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 4: had dessert.

484
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if olive pie is dessert. I bet

485
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: it's a savory pie. I've never had olive pie. Maybe

486
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: I'm wrong.

487
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 4: You know what, You're probably not wrong, because I make

488
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 4: an olive bread at work. It's pretty savory.

489
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: I guess you're actually the cook here anyway.

490
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, there were many different experiences that different

491
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 4: soldiers had to come through. And two and there was

492
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 4: Walter Cobbs who was a black driver in the Spanish

493
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 4: Civil War, and he was almost shot by Republican forces

494
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 4: because he had captured a fascist truck and tried to

495
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 4: drive it right up to the lines of the anti fascists,

496
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: and at first they thought he was a Moroccan soldier.

497
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: He had said, quote, if I didn't speak Spanish, I

498
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: would have been shot by my own side. It's something

499
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 4: in quote. It is something he told James Yats as well.

500
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 4: And this is kind of the moment that I have

501
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 4: to mention Rocan.

502
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, the fact that there's like black people fighting on

503
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: the fascist side as well.

504
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, which kind of begs the point of like what

505
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 4: were Moroccans doing on the fascist side of the Civil

506
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 4: War that they were able to be confused with the

507
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 4: black folks from the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, which, if folks

508
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 4: didn't know, Franco needed had some serious help early on

509
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 4: in this war. I mean, he had support from Mussolini's Italy,

510
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 4: Hitler's Germany, and he had just practiced down in Ethiopia.

511
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 4: But what's less talked about is that Franco also brought

512
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: in thousands of Moroccan soldiers from Spain's colony in northern

513
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 4: Morocco called the Spanish Protectorate, and they had fought in

514
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 4: colonial wars before, and Franco had trusted them a bit

515
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 4: more than some of his own Spanish soldiers at the time,

516
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 4: because like they were colonial troops under Spanish war means

517
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: they pretty much couldn't say no if they wanted to.

518
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: But right, and since they're not like Spaniards, they're like

519
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: it's less likely that they're going to switch and fight

520
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: for the republic or whatever because they're like more literally

521
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: invading another place because where they live was invaded.

522
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Franco himself was a general that was like

523
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: I think believe had a lot more influence over this

524
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 4: side of Spanish uh like military political realm and uh

525
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 4: say at the time. So I mean they operated a

526
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: lot as shock troops for the nationalists. They were colonial subjects,

527
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: so orders were orders disobeying mient prison, death, or even

528
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 4: punishment for their families back at home. And it's the

529
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 4: colonial and imperialist outposts that like modern policing as well

530
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 4: as like here and in the Philippines, with the US specifically,

531
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 4: is like a place where we a lot of our

532
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 4: like policing tactics come from and like the way to

533
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 4: do policing as well as like terroristic social control was

534
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 4: experimented with by colonizers. Leveraging economic desperation also played a

535
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 4: big role, because being a soldier was one of the

536
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 4: few ways that you can make a steady living, no

537
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 4: matter kind of where you are in the world. At

538
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: least allegedly, that's why a lot of soldiers revolt because

539
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: they don't get paid, and even if it meant fighting

540
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 4: a war that wasn't really theirs. As well as like

541
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 4: that faith solidarity that I talked into earlier, like faith

542
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: leaders that already had power within the set society were

543
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 4: more likely to support Franco because they also hated secularism,

544
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: or how they viewed secularism of the Spanish Republicans, and

545
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: many faith based groups around the world saw the Nationalists

546
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 4: as more respectful of faith and tradition, and after the

547
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 4: Spanish Civil War kind of came to its end in

548
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 4: thirty nine. In nineteen thirty nine, Franco's victory didn't kill

549
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 4: the spirit of a lot of these volunteers. It just

550
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: scattered them into new fights back into their home. Even

551
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 4: more hardened for many Black vets, the internationalism they had

552
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: just forged in the war, being able to have and

553
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 4: be an integrated units, being able to lead units for

554
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: the first time, like Oliver Law was a black anti

555
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 4: fascist who became one of the head commanders of the

556
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but died very shortly into that. But

557
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 4: it is thought to be one of the first Black

558
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 4: Americans to lead as either segregated or mostly white unit.

559
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

560
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: I find that fascinating, Like a into what you're saying

561
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: about the pilot too, right, is that like, well, we

562
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: don't have to fight and segregated units in Spain or

563
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: I'm allowed to fly a plane in Spain, and so, yeah,

564
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: it doesn't surprise me that the first black person to

565
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: lead like white soldiers, white American soldiers wasn't in the

566
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: US Army. It was Americans fighting and you know, a

567
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: Republican army.

568
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and a lot of them. They came back with

569
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 4: like this new understanding of solidarity, maybe not even new,

570
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 4: but like a very material understanding of this of this

571
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: different racial context, and then came right back into Jim

572
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 4: Crow America.

573
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 3: It was still in.

574
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: Full legal effects until the mid nineteen sixties and then

575
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 4: de facto social until well everything's fixed now.

576
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't have a whole uprising about it in

577
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. I don't know what you're talking about.

578
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean get ready for the next when.

579
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they came home into the like full extreme

580
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 4: nationalism of white supremacists, country, state and local dictatorships due

581
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 4: to the lack of voting restrictions, racial labor exploitation and

582
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: lynching as social control and sport. So when veterans like

583
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: Yates came home, literally because of the US isolationalism, the

584
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: FBI was waiting for them. They would get off the

585
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 4: plane and the agents would Yeates said that the agents

586
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 4: looked like they would have been more comfortable with the

587
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: fascists that they were fighting if they had came home,

588
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: and probably true if you know how like were appened

589
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 4: after the World War Two. We're more than happy to

590
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: welcome in Nazis into our institutions of power. But they

591
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 4: took his pat support and lots of veterans of the

592
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 4: Abraham Lincoln Brigades passports because it was against the US

593
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 4: foreign policy to go to Spain at the time. So

594
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 4: once they were found out, they were restricted and it

595
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 4: wasn't restored until Kent v. Dulles in nineteen fifty eight

596
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 4: that ruled that the US government could not deny a

597
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 4: citacent of passport just because of their beliefs or affiliations

598
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: without process, which due process.

599
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: In America is a whole other conversation of itself.

600
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything's fine. That one's history podcast.

601
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

602
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 4: And then most of the veterans themselves, of all races,

603
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 4: they struggled to find work the FBI, and eventually the

604
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 4: House of Unamerican Committees made sure of that. The FBI

605
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: would literally do like think of like some of the

606
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 4: co Intel pro type of psychological terror. They would do,

607
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 4: like you try to go get a job, you go

608
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 4: to the interview, you think it's all nice, You go home.

609
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 4: Your prospective future boss also just got to visit an

610
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 4: interview from the FBI directly about you. And it was

611
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 4: a big deterrent as well, especially in Jim Crow America,

612
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 4: where there was already so many deterrents.

613
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 3: A lot of folks stayed politically active.

614
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 4: A few, like those who had been aligned with the

615
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 4: Communist organizers and Communist Party, had felt betrayed during the

616
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 4: McCarthy era, and others built solidarity networks that endured where

617
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 4: where some of them were like the veterans of the

618
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 4: Abraham Lincoln Brigade itself decided to create its own support group,

619
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 4: and some of them, like some folks were able to

620
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 4: find gigs through the Communist Party, like there was a

621
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 4: like section, organizer things and anything that the party could do,

622
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: but it wasn't really enough for all the veterans that

623
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 4: went to really be able to help them. But yeah,

624
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 4: support groups like Friends of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade raised

625
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 4: money to support those coming home those int detention due

626
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: to breaking the non intervention policy and something totally not

627
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 4: related to now. Some of them were not being full

628
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: citizens or not having like the right paperwork because they

629
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: were born in the South, or they were born in

630
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 4: different places that didn't have like a lot of civil

631
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 4: registries up until that point. So when they came back

632
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 4: and their paperwork didn't look too nice, they got held

633
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 4: in immigration stuff and some of them even deported.

634
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: God, imagine being born in this country, going and fighting

635
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: for or what this country ostensibly stands for, a democratic republic,

636
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: and then coming back and just being like, oh, no,

637
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 2: you don't uh, things don't line up, Get the fuck

638
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 2: out of here.

639
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 3: Do you even exist?

640
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 4: Not? Yeah, and a lot of folks came back feeling

641
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 4: like they had lost the war.

642
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: Like, well, they kind of did.

643
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: Well, they did, but they came back with them.

644
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 4: They were also in radical spaces and they felt too

645
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 4: revered by the people around them, Like people were like, oh,

646
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 4: you're so cool, you did that, and that actually pushed

647
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 4: a lot of people out of like more politically active spaces,

648
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 4: and they were like, y'all are going too hard around me.

649
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, like like no, this was a we fucking don't

650
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 2: call me a hero. I just suffered incredible loss.

651
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have no good way to talk about war.

652
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 4: Definitely not in the nineteen twenty, like.

653
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 3: That's for sure.

654
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: But do you know what we do have a good

655
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: way to talk about?

656
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 3: Is it ads?

657
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: We do. We have a lot of We've both done

658
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: a lot of work writing about the impacts of advertisements

659
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: and how we can use them to learn about goods

660
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 2: and services with which to enrich our lives.

661
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: Here's that and we're back. Welcome, Welcome.

662
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 4: So to kind of get into some of the life

663
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 4: of folks after the war, a lot of folks were

664
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 4: very stringent, especially because of all the political reverence. They

665
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 4: got to keep their class ties even though they're like

666
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 4: there were even like lots of wealthy sympathizers that offered

667
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 4: to free them from the debt that they were in

668
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 4: and pay their way through schooling and enter like the

669
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 4: more professionalized class. And there was some folks who still

670
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 4: like denied that because they they saw it as like

671
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 4: class tradering, which I don't know, if someone's willing to

672
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 4: pay for my schooling, I'm like, please do it.

673
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: Uh.

674
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, politics has moved on, but yeah, very great. I

675
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: see where they're coming from. But yeah, I would not

676
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: be mad at anyone who did that.

677
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. So there was another one of the support groups,

678
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 4: the veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. Like by the

679
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 4: end or like nearer the fifties, there was a decline

680
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 4: in how many veterans were actually still active in it,

681
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: and most folks still stayed friends because of like the

682
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: political and social commitments from war combined with the public

683
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 4: sentiment against communists and against them at the time being

684
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 4: viewed as communists, and a lot of them were. And

685
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 4: one thing that I find interesting series like they also

686
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 4: still built a lot of solidarity through a lot of

687
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 4: the legal battles that they had to continue to go

688
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 4: through because they were getting wrapped up in the red

689
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 4: Scare and the McCarthy era stuff as the scary communists

690
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: that actually picked up a gun to go do something

691
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 4: being premature anti fascist. Yeah, and a lot of them

692
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 4: were still doing like labor organizing or like they were

693
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 4: like the one veteran of the alb would get picked

694
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 4: up in Detroit or Arkansas and be detained for days,

695
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 4: and that would bring a network together to pull up

696
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: for each other. So there was still that consistent solidarity

697
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 4: even if folks weren't day to day members in the

698
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 4: support group as much.

699
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: That makes sense. Also, they founded that whole city in

700
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 2: New York that's named after the alb Albany. I timed

701
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 2: this just as Jordan was drinking out of a glass

702
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: on purpose. This is my best joke of the episode.

703
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 2: I hope you all enjoyed it. It was the worst

704
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: joke anyway.

705
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

706
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 4: There's a city near me called New Albany that's definitely

707
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 4: was made by a fascist. So it's just like really

708
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 4: funny to me to think about the co optation of

709
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 4: anti fascism by fascist.

710
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: In this hypothetical world where Albany is named after the

711
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln Brigade.

712
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: Uh oh, that's my head canon. I don't even know

713
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 3: who Albany is. Yeah. Yeah.

714
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 4: One thing I find interesting too is that after the

715
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 4: war they had this they were like X Party members.

716
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 4: They were anti Communist vets that didn't want to associate

717
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 4: with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade afterwards, especially when they came home.

718
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 3: A lot of them just to keep their head down.

719
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: But there was.

720
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 4: This very specific line around deserters and whether or not

721
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 4: when you came home to America you could be a

722
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 4: part of the veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade if

723
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: you deserted when you were on the ground in Spain.

724
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 4: And they really just had one line, which was like

725
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 4: they were allowed to participate if they had admitted honestly

726
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 4: to their regrets and shortcomings on the battlefield, and as

727
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 4: long as they didn't disavow the Republic, the Brigade or

728
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 4: the Communist Party. That was like their line within the

729
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 4: alb Yeah. And then yeah, one thing that kind of

730
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 4: end on is like years years later, James Yates himself

731
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 4: ended up going back to Spain. It's past nineteen fifty eight.

732
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 4: They're able to get their passport back now, and they're like,

733
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 4: I'm a free man where should I go. Obviously, I

734
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: should go to Spain. They wanted to travel Europe more broadly,

735
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 4: but they were like, I can't go to Europe and

736
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 4: not go to Spain, like I spent so much of

737
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 4: my formative years there. Even if it is just a couple,

738
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 4: I think they were only there for maybe a year

739
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 4: or two. But a year or two of war is

740
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 4: a lifetime, and it's, yeah, the end of life for

741
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 4: a lot of people. So to survive and to be

742
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 4: able to go back is a really beautiful experience.

743
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: But they were terrified. Yeah, it's still Franco town.

744
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 4: Franco still was in power till I believe the late

745
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 4: mid seventies.

746
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: I can never remember the year that Franco died. This

747
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: has come up because I live a very normal life.

748
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: It has come up in conversation like four or five

749
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: times in the past month that I can't remember when

750
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 2: Franco died. But fortunately whoever I'm talking to also can't remember.

751
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: November twentieth, nineteen seventy five.

752
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: Hell, yeah, Sophie knows, yep.

753
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: I know, because I googled it.

754
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 3: I don't know at the top of my head.

755
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: No, no, no, in my mind, you know that you

756
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: celebrate every year. Yeah.

757
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: I mean it would be really fucking base if I

758
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: knew all the dictator's deaths by memory.

759
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, he's kept coming up on fifty years dead.

760
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: Didn't this year? We should have a party, Oh my god.

761
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 4: We should be a good, good thing to do in November.

762
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

763
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

764
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 4: But they were terrified to go back, and they first

765
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 4: stopped in France. They were chilaxing. Then they went to

766
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 4: like a border town, so they were like, I'm still

767
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 4: gonna go. I'm still gonna go. They got off the

768
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 4: train right before the border and was able to talk

769
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 4: to like some Spanish refugees and French locals, and as

770
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 4: soon as he like decided it was safe to let

771
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 4: them know he was a veteran of the Civil War,

772
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 4: so many Polks flocked to him. He was like a

773
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 4: person he was talking to was like, really, where's salary

774
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 4: a key, where's Milton Wolf? Where's like how are people doing?

775
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 4: Have you heard of them? And he was just like whoa,

776
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 4: whoa Is it safe to go to Spain right now?

777
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 4: And they're like, if you keep your head down you

778
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 4: can get through it. Probably, Yeah, So he decided to

779
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: continue his journey in and the differences he felt were

780
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 4: immediate in Stark as soon as he entered the country

781
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 4: on the train. It was the same train he had

782
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 4: left that at the time was bombed out and had

783
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 4: no windows, so it was a cold train ride out,

784
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 4: a warmer traine ride in. There was no gunboats, no

785
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 4: Italian gunboats waiting to Sheldon the train. At this point

786
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 4: in his hotel he heard the sounds of torture that

787
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 4: it was the point that he had to leave hotels.

788
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 3: Wait.

789
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 2: So he went back and he heard people being tortured

790
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: while he was there, because it was still a fascist

791
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: regimes that we're.

792
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: Saying yeah, yeah.

793
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 4: And then it was even in his head was like

794
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 4: I should leave this hotel and go to the next one.

795
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 4: But he's like, this is probably happening at the next

796
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 4: hotel too, so I should just stay.

797
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: Because otherwise you're like, well, you know, once the fascist

798
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 2: is in charge, hey, at least at least there's no

799
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: Italian gunboats.

800
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 3: It really everything's fine now.

801
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: And then you're like you get to the hotel and

802
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: you're like, oh no, this is a torture land. I'm

803
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: in hell land.

804
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, And he one thing he loved about Spain at

805
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 4: the beginning was the public life, the communal life of Spain.

806
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 4: People in the plaza, it was gone. People on the

807
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 4: street weren't willing to talk to her, and people weren't

808
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 4: outside communing with each other. He tried to have a

809
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 4: conversation with somebody at a park and no, no, no, no, that's.

810
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: An important thing to think about about the day to

811
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 2: day life under a long term fascist regime instead of

812
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: like Germany in nineteen thirty seven, but like Spain in

813
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: the nineteen fifty is no more public life. That's heavy, okay, yeah, yeah.

814
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 3: And then something happened.

815
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 4: At the time, he was working with the NAACP in

816
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 4: the US and he was working on some stuff to

817
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 4: free Angela Davis, and he had requested packages to be

818
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 4: sent to France with a bunch of buttons to like

819
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 4: free Angela Davis. They had accidentally landed in Spain, where

820
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 4: he specifically requested them not to come, but still forwarded. Nonetheless,

821
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 4: he was a bit terrified about that, but he had

822
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 4: a plan. I'm gonna read from his book what he

823
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 4: did about that quote. My first thought was, oh lord,

824
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 4: what is this. I'm here in fascist Spain with Angela

825
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 4: Davis buttons. What if this gets reported to the authorities.

826
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 4: All the while walking back to the hotel, I wondered

827
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 4: what to do with the buttons. Then I pulled myself together.

828
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: I had faced Franco before the Civil War forty years ago.

829
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 4: I had spent the rest of my days sitting on

830
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 4: many benches and somehow leaving a button behind at each one.

831
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 4: By sundown, all the buttons were gone. End quote.

832
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: And he just did a little bit of distribution.

833
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 4: Like I love that story because I'm like, this is

834
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 4: the beauty of internationalism, media distribution, Like how many pigs

835
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: found those Like how many hardened or new radicals found

836
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 4: hope by being like what is this? And this like

837
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 4: just act of self preservation but also resistance.

838
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 3: That's cool.

839
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I guess just kind of like a

840
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 4: lasting point about this is that something that I love

841
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 4: about reading about the Spanish Civil War is that they

842
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 4: remind us that fighting fascism isn't about the esthetics. It's

843
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 4: not about the flags slogans. Most of the times it's

844
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 4: the food delivery truck field hospital, the nurse that won't

845
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 4: be moved, the mechanic who teaches solidarity, and a garage

846
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 4: its community defense even decades later even at home. And

847
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 4: this history matters not to romanticize a war, but to

848
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 4: remember what was possible when ordinary people chose to risk everything,

849
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 4: not for nationalism, profit, but for dignity. Like affinity, groups, cadres, families,

850
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 4: and couples came into this fight together, sometimes staggered months

851
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 4: at a time, and some would have really sweet reunions

852
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 4: on the battlefields and in the real camps and in

853
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 4: the hospitals. Some came through that treacherous mountain range to

854
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 4: receive a heartbreak in finding their best friends murdered. Of

855
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 4: those that came in together, some left more alone than

856
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: ever and with a more diverse set of wounds. Many

857
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 4: came to join the resistance as people willing to do

858
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 4: anything to fight fascism, and in that people came out

859
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 4: commanders like Oliver Law, most likely the first Black American

860
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 4: man to lead a white or integrated unit. People united

861
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 4: in many, many forms of labor. The combatant wouldn't survive

862
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 4: and sustain aggression without their nurses and doctors. The medical

863
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 4: workers wouldn't get their patients if not for the wartime

864
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 4: ambulance drivers. The drivers go nowhere without their mechanics, and

865
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 4: no one was fighting without the cooks, and the world

866
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 4: wouldn't have our archives without our artists. Langston Hughes was

867
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 4: another artist that came alongside Ernest Hemingway to engage in

868
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 4: journalists in the region and with Robinson to uplift the

869
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 4: spirits and harden their own understanding by sharing their expression

870
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 4: with the soldiers in the International Brigades. This is one

871
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 4: thing I have as a call to action, is to

872
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 4: honor them by studying their choices, their losses, and their resilience,

873
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 4: telling the full story not just of the battlefield, but

874
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 4: of camaraderie, the protection, the cookouts, the poems, the organizing.

875
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 4: And then I just have one last quote from Yates

876
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 4: that I think really encapsulates the spirit, which is quote,

877
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 4: simply put, one's own life is, in reality, but an

878
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 4: unfolding paranorama of mutually developing relationships in a time and

879
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 4: place beyond an original personal choice.

880
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 3: End quote.

881
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 4: And Yeah, if any of this moved you, I really

882
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 4: encourage you to read James Yates Mississippi to Madrid, look

883
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 4: up Celaria Keys' writings, and learn about what the veterans

884
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 4: of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade did after Spain. Because there's

885
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 4: so much more. There's so much more research about anti

886
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 4: authoritarian militant action, and not all of them share the

887
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 4: same identifiers, but it takes a lot to do that research,

888
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: and in drawing a line to the revolt in the

889
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 4: passion that anti fascism isn't over and neither is our

890
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 4: capacity for solidarity. They did their part, and now it's

891
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 4: our turn. We were not handed a finished revolution.

892
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, okay, but you mentioned all the cooks and

893
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: the everyone, but you forgot to bring back the most

894
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 2: important character, the one who just wanted to fly a plane.

895
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: I find him fascinating because it's like, oh, America's so

896
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: racist that if he wants to be a pilot, he

897
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: has to go into a war in a foreign country.

898
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: Like and I okay, not to just keep going on

899
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: about the pilot, but one of the things I like

900
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: about the too Right is you're talking about all these

901
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: people who have a gradient of level of like political

902
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: understanding or how central politics is to who they are,

903
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 2: you know. And you have the people who are like, look,

904
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 2: I believe in this stuff, and I gotta If I

905
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: say I believe it, I gotta do it. And then

906
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: you have people who are like, well, people are getting

907
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: shot and I'm a medic, and so I'm going and

908
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: you have people who are like, I want to fly

909
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: a plane.

910
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: You know.

911
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he was like the most politic of all

912
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: of them, but like, I love this version of him

913
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: where it's just like Noah, I just I really want

914
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: to fly a plane.

915
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 4: Fly so much we're to say about Garlands too. I

916
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 4: mean he ended up joining Langston Hughes and Harry Hayward

917
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 4: and Radio Broadcast when he got back to the United

918
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 4: States from Madrid. He did work with the American Medical

919
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 4: Bureau and other organizations to really like lobby because one

920
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 4: thing about the people who got sent back early, especially

921
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 4: for being injured, was they were there to test the

922
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 4: political climate of the United States to see what would

923
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 4: happen when the war ended, to see what they were

924
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 4: other folks were sending, like what the Spanish battalions and

925
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 4: brigades were sending their volunteers back to Oh wow.

926
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 2: So it was even like kind of an additional danger

927
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 2: they were taking for their comrades was to be the

928
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: one to go back first to figure out and test

929
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: the waters.

930
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 3: Damn.

931
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: I had a I had a friend whose grandfather, like

932
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: it was just like it was one of my friends,

933
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 2: like in a kind of like goth scene, wasn't particularly

934
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: political person. I was like, oh, yeah, my grandfather fought

935
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: in the Spanish Civil War, I think, and didn't know

936
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: like the first thing about it. And I'm like, that

937
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: means your grandfather was a hardcore leftist, Like we should

938
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 2: talk about that. Yeah, that's cool.

939
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's also something that like, especially

940
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 4: redoing these archives around war and history is so important

941
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: because especially in America, we don't talk about what happened

942
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 4: during the wars a lot unless it's over glorifying it

943
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 4: or any of this. Milton Wolf talked heavily after when

944
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 4: they came back, who was another a white volunteer in

945
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 4: the Communist Party, about how no one told me what

946
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 4: it was going to be like in the Foxtrot. Nobody

947
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 4: told me what it was going to be like in

948
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 4: No Man's Land. Nobody's going to tell me what it

949
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 4: was like to see bodies dead but still moving, terrifying.

950
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: Lord.

951
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 2: Well, that's a terribly on uplifting note to end on.

952
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: But the note that you chose to end on in

953
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 2: your script it was really good, which is that it's like, okay,

954
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 2: like We look at this history because we care about

955
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: the present, we care about the future, and this history

956
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 2: has been very much buried and I love getting to

957
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: see it. So thank you for telling me all this.

958
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having me.

959
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: Well, is there anything you wanna you have a podcast?

960
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 2: Tell me about your podcast or anything else you'd like

961
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: to plug?

962
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, okay, yeah, I mean one.

963
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 4: Definitely go check out the dug Out, especially if you're

964
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 4: interested in black folks in the doing anti fascism and

965
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 4: in the Spanish Civil War. Because I did so much research,

966
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have so much content for the Dugout over

967
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 4: the next couple of months.

968
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 3: H cool.

969
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 4: But alongside that, I think it's really important for folks

970
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 4: to be tapped into the current abolitionist movement that is

971
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 4: going on in the United States. And one way that

972
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 4: media and media folks have tapped in and played that

973
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 4: role is through a couple of projects that I'm involved

974
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 4: with called In the Belly and In the Mix. And

975
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 4: In the Belly is an abolitionist magazine that is buy

976
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 4: and four currently incarcerated individuals. Our editorial steam and all

977
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 4: of our authors are currently incarcerated folks. With the support

978
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 4: of formally incarcerated folks on the outside and just getting

979
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 4: articles from people on the inside to other folks on

980
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 4: the inside. And then there's in the Mix, which is

981
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: a podcast with the same format hosted by folks that

982
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 4: are inside, questioning and interviewing sometimes academics or theorists or

983
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 4: even just other folks that are on the inside, if

984
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 4: when that's possible. So checking out those two projects I

985
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 4: feel like are real big hell yeah.

986
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: And if you want to check out anything that I do,

987
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 2: you could listen to this show. You can also listen

988
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 2: to Love Like the World's Dying, an individual and community

989
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: preparedness podcast. And I write a newsletter on substack, and

990
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 2: I probably do other things, but that's enough things.

991
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 3: Oh, just randomly.

992
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 4: We also have if you go to patreon dot com

993
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 4: forward Slash Dugout Pod, we have a free newsletter that

994
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 4: comes out monthly about folks who want to stay up

995
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 4: day on some of the more contemporary stuff that's going

996
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 4: on and hitting our woes, but in a more tempered

997
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 4: and staggered format than the daily news cycle.

998
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 3: Check us out over there.

999
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 1: So for you guy thing, if I want to plug

1000
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: one specific thing, I guess listen to Hood Politics with

1001
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: the prop. He's been putting out some bangers lately and

1002
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: I love that guy.

1003
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: They are good.

1004
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 3: Big props to listeners.

1005
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: Have heard me say this before, but it continues to

1006
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: be true, so you should listen to that, and you

1007
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: should listen to us next week when we have more

1008
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 2: Cool People Who this is we always exit end this way,

1009
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 2: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.

1010
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1011
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. A more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1012
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1013
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1014
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: your podcasts.