1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt name 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: they called me Ben. You are you, and you are here, 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: Of course, where would we be without our super producer, 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: Paul Decans Mission Control? That is one of his many 9 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: many names. I asked Paul how many names he had 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: one time, and in my head he said, um, my 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: names are legion. But in reality he just looked at 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: you and shook his head walked away. Yeah, creature. Yeah, 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: if we didn't have mission Control, we'd just be floating 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: out here in space amongst all these conspiracies and Mr 15 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: read what we're doing. There's no systems controlling who's watching? Uh, 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's name a system of the variable 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: flight channel conduit. Yeah, well was that is that A? 18 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: Is that an acronym? I don't know, No, he's he's 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: getting the techno babble. Yeah, I don't know the terms. 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: But we would just be aimless. We would be aimless, 21 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: and we could potentially be hit, you know, broadsided dare 22 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: we say, by some sort of conspiracy asteroid cluster. Absolutely. 23 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about this is that we're we're 24 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: talking about surprises today, We're talking about unpleasant surprises, and 25 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: along the way we're going to bust a few, I 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: don't know, a few myths. I would say that we 27 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: in the US tend to have about our fine neighbors 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: to the north, the Canadians. This one's kind of fun though, right, Yeah, 29 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: this is not going to be This is not going 30 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: to be one of those where you turn off your 31 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: your podcast listening device and sit in the dark for 32 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: a while. Hopefully. Yeah. I just saw we got an 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: email you to day with someone's like, hey, guys, love you, 34 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: but can you tone it down a little bit? Yeah, 35 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: it's been kind of heavy. Give us something silly or weird. 36 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: Here we go. So, Canada is the Commonwealth country to 37 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: the north of the continental United States, and it is 38 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: often depicted as the more friendly side of North American culture. 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: You know, if you've ever traveled abroad, depending upon the 40 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: political climate of the place you visit, you will hear 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of Americans, myself included, pretend 42 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: to be Canadian. It was a little easier before the 43 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: advent of the Internet, like the Swiss kind of just 44 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: sort of neutral, friendly earth, respecting neighbors to the north, 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: just so a patch on your backpack that has a 46 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: main belief way you go. Considerable contributions to American comedy, 47 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: no doubt the it's it's weird, it's sort of the 48 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: way that is, some of the best literature in the 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: English language is written by Russians. Some of the best 50 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: comedy in the English language, or some of the best 51 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: comedy in the US at least is made entirely by 52 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: Canadians on par with the Brits. But you also have 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of like Canadian expats that go to places 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: like Chicago and the whole Second City thing. But then 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: you have you know, your kids in the hall and 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: all that um but really really influential stuff. And it's 57 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: no surprise that people would see Canada as a more 58 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: friendly version of the US because despite sharing a common tongue, 59 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: and this despite the fact that we're on the same continent, 60 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: we have this enormous, relatively friendly land border. Canada and 61 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: the US are too related, but more importantly, two very 62 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: different cultures. Like the US, the Canadian government was heavily 63 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: concerned earned with the possibility of the Cold War becoming 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: an active, open conflict pretty much after World War Two ended. Yea, 65 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: and on well, and specifically because they have a proximity 66 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: problem where if if it becomes a hot war, that's true, 67 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: that's true up there in Canada's northwest, right, Yeah, nuclear 68 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: fallout would find its way to them if the US 69 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: go bombed. So there's that's one of our myths that 70 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: that we find in the very beginning this show, this 71 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: stereotype of all Canadian people somehow being the nicest, kindest 72 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: people on earth, and that somehow equating to a super nice, 73 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: superkind government. I think the operative term you just use 74 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: their been is on earth, no one is safe from 75 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: souls on this planet, or you know, self serving needs 76 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: for a government or you know, a mill. You're saying, 77 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: it's easy to lump a group of people in and say, 78 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, with a sample size of the few Canadians 79 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: I've met in person or seen on television, they're all 80 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: like that. Obviously. Yeah, no, there there there's the same 81 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: avarice and weirdness and self servingness that you know, you 82 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: see everywhere else on this But of course, of course, 83 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and are currently in Canada 84 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: or are from Canada, we are assured that you are 85 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: probably the one of the nicest people listening to the 86 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: show right now. Specifically, yes, association, we're all hanging out together. 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: We're all the best. So the thing is, in the past, 88 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: we have looked at some of the skeletons in Uncle 89 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: Sam's closet. We've done so at length. We've found some 90 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: terrifying stuff. We found some entirely absurd stuff, right like 91 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: the various plans to kill Castro and so on, which 92 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: are just Rube Goldberg esque. And today we're looking at 93 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: something that a lot of US citizens are probably not 94 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: aware of or possibly not aware of, which is that 95 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: the Canadian government was at heart no different from the 96 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: US government. They found themselves doing some absurd things to 97 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: address the fear of the spread of communism, and the 98 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: story that we encounter today would honestly be, in my opinion, 99 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: hilarious were it not true and disturbing. This may contain 100 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: language that some folks in the audience might find offensive. 101 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there, because what 102 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: do we always hear it was a different time. Was 103 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: a different time, right, And the time we're talking about 104 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: is in the late fifties and early sixties, right, Yeah, 105 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: Canada had a problem. They were trying to make sure 106 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: that they did not have moles leakers, spies, right, And 107 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: they were doing all the things that government us to 108 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: try to prevent that background checks, investigations, running your financial records. 109 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: But they thought there was a particular group of people 110 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: that was an active national security threat, people who were 111 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: attracted to the same gender. I'm sorry why they thought 112 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: that homosexuality was a huge threat, because they essentially thought 113 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: these people would be easy to turn. In the fifties 114 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: early sixties, Canada's Security panel told the Prime Minister at 115 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the time, John Diefenbaker, that quote, gay people needed to 116 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: be removed from public office because they are weak, unreliable 117 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: and easily compromise the He sees them as like degenerates 118 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: or in some way, um having no scruples in my 119 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: In my opinion, I think it's because there was such 120 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: social stigma about being homosexual at that time that it 121 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: would make you prone to blackmail. So that's certainly on. 122 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: So they that's the main thing I mean, I think 123 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: I think that's one of them. There there are several, 124 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: but one of them is to that effect. But the 125 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: language though here seems to imply a a almost personal 126 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: resentment of said individuals. Yeah, because I think the government, 127 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: the government is composed of people that live within the 128 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: society they attempt to govern, so they suffer from that 129 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: same stigma these guys are outliers, right, Yeah, So I 130 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: think I think it's hand in hand. It might be 131 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: one of those. It may have been one of those 132 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: things where the official reasons were presented as these people 133 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: could be blackmails, but the internal emotional motivation was like, 134 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: don't trust them, get him out on them, don't lack them. 135 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: I'm again it that are those are two of ore, 136 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: the Canadian redneck voice, the two of our completely accurate 137 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: Canadian voices here, Canadian redneck voices. It's just like that, 138 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: but it's followed by a right now, that's bad. Well, 139 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: I think we'll run into some more accents along the way. 140 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: They took this so seriously. They they formed a special 141 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: group within the RCMP, which stands for, of course, the 142 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and we had an off air 143 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: discussion about this too. Yeah, Like, are they like the 144 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: mounted nous of them? Is that a requirement? Is that 145 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: a sign of respect? Do they ride moose? Oh? Sure, yes? 146 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: Which part of it? I was wrong about the moose. 147 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: You can take me the task please. In fact, I insist, 148 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: I'll I'll let our Canadian breath. Yeah. The person listening 149 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: to this right now, that it's typing the email, it's 150 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: gonna be so polite and friendly though, just shredding me 151 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: in the most low key way. Hey, yeah, we don't 152 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: write the moose anymore. They never did. It was it 153 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: was the horse thing, right, Just just just got a 154 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: brief history of the Canadian Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I 155 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: think it's fascinating. Only sergeants and above are allowed to 156 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: mount the moose. And today this is this is an 157 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: active law enforcement agency. They prevent, investigate crime, They maintain 158 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: peace and order, enforced laws. They contribute to national security 159 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: even today, and they at this time, we're also incredibly 160 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: concerned about what they saw as the spread of communism 161 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: through the compromise of closeted homosexual officials in their organization, 162 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: in any government organization, so much so that they've formed 163 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: a task force for this with the name Section A three. 164 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: Section A three's only job was to identify and fire 165 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: every and any homosexual working for the Canadian government in 166 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: any capacity. It was like some McCarthyism, which hunt kind 167 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: of toxic work environments here too great comparison. Ye, So 168 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: to do this, they said, we need to find concrete 169 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: proof someone's sexual identity or their orientation or whatever their 170 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: sexuality might be. And that's where it got very strange, 171 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: very quickly, because they at least had enough self respect 172 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: or dignity to say, well, we can't just go around 173 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: calling people gay and then firing them. We have to 174 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: have some sort of proof. But they didn't tell leadership officially. 175 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: They didn't tell leadership at the time exactly what kind 176 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: of means they were going to use to arrive at 177 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: that end, right, Like, it's it is it enough that 178 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: it used if you find Aliza Manelli record in their collection, 179 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: is that now we need more? Well yeah, and this 180 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: is there's a tough amount of basically reconnaissance in spying 181 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: you have to do to prove someone outside of the 182 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: workplace lives a certain way or thinks a certain way, 183 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: right invasive. So yeah, it's really they did some weird 184 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: stuff to try and figure out. Yeah, and so, so 185 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister did not know the full extent of 186 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: this project. He accepted their advice. And we have to 187 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: remember we have the benefit of being alive in two 188 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen for however long that remains a benefit. So 189 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: this might seem backwards to us, but moral panics were 190 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: really common back in the day. It was just almost 191 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: like a black Ops kind of situation where it was like, 192 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: get it done by whatever means necessary. I don't need 193 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: to know all the details from the Prime Minister's perspective, 194 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: you know that is that's a question that I would 195 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: I would love to hear somebody else's take on, because 196 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: you know, how much of that is him really not knowing, 197 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: and how much of that is exactly what you described 198 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: him saying, well, plausible deniability. Just get it done. Don't 199 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: talk to me directly, talk to this guy probably called 200 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: them fellas. Yeah, I would say that this program in 201 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: general had to have high levels of secrecy involved with it, 202 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: because you can't let the people know that they are 203 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: hunting for or your sexuality in that way, right or 204 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: else you just then maybe you don't go to the bar, 205 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: or you don't associate with certain people, especially if you're 206 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: in the government and you you know, could hear through 207 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: the grapevine that this is going on. They would have 208 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: to really keep it under wraps. Yeah, especially if you 209 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: know your job is at risk. Yes. So what what 210 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: kind of stuff did they do? Well, there are several 211 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: tactics that they used, but one that we know about 212 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: from a CBC dot c a article that included a 213 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: video interview. Um. They would post up outside known gay bars, 214 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: such as the basement bar of the Lord Elgin Hotel 215 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: near the University of Ottawa in Ottawa that part, Yes, 216 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: and they would take photographs of everyone entering and exiting 217 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: the facility, the establishment, and they'd seek the assistance of 218 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: known gay men such as Paul Fournier, who at the 219 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: time was a famous drag performer who went by Peaches Latour. 220 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: Yes exactly, uh. And they would ask somebody like Paul 221 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: Fournia to identify the people in the photographs. So they'd 222 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: get Paul in, sit him down in a room with 223 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: a giant just hundreds and hundreds of photographs of people 224 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: and say who are these people? Can you know, do 225 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: you recognize them? And then find out if those people 226 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: worked for the government. Um pretty crazy. By the way. 227 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: Peaches Latour at the time would do a show for 228 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: about three thousand dollars a night. Wow in the fifties. Yeah, 229 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: so and now and keep that keep that number, calculator 230 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: that just keep keep that number in your head as 231 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: we continue this episode. Three thousand dollars for a single 232 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: night of performance. I mean, that's that's uh, that's it's 233 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: more than yeah. But to his credit, according to the interview, 234 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: Fournier refused to help the r c MP and their efforts, 235 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: and for that he was labeled a security threat and 236 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: a traitor to his country, just like from Noel's example 237 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: with McCarthy ism. Just like the entertainment industry folks in 238 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: the US who refused to say so and so is 239 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: a communist. Yes, and they were they were thinking, well, 240 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: the only reason that you're not telling us that this 241 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: person is a communist or gay is because you, sir, 242 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: are a trader exactly, or both of those things and 243 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: all of those things. And you know, it's just it's 244 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: pretty narly. And this was super expensive work, right, oh yeah, 245 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: crazy expensive. So much time on the books of people 246 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: sitting outside, standing outside of places, taking photographs you're talking 247 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: about the film that stake out all that stuff, just 248 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: because you can mean, like, think about how much effort it's. 249 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: It's like, imagine yourself being like a National Geographics nature 250 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: photographer or like someone that works on one of those 251 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: Planet Earth documentaries. Think how long they had to sit 252 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: up in that tree before that alligator like made that 253 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: move just right, same deal with humans, you know. Yeah. 254 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: And one thing that's interesting, which is a little bit 255 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: lost to history in this story, is that when they 256 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: were relying on humans human intelligence, they also used underground 257 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: informants or kind of sting agents. So that's a weird 258 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: position to me. If you are quote unquote hunting these 259 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: people and there's some guy in the locker room going 260 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: to catch the beast, you must become the beast and 261 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: then himself in the mirror, right right, right, and and 262 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: he I just say, that person is in the pole 263 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: position to never be fired or found out. I don't know, 264 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: and said, I mean, you can already see the ethical 265 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: quandaries with this ridiculous plan. But because of the expense 266 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: and because of the perceived lack of efficacy with this stuff, 267 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: they decided to go a more technologically advanced route, and 268 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: they ultimately built something called their term not ours, the 269 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: fruit machine. And we'll learn about that right after a 270 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor. The fruit machine. Yes, it's 271 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: a real name. And this concept took off primarily due 272 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: to the efforts of a psychology professor named Frank Robert Wake, 273 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: who was who was working at the university in Ottawa. Right, 274 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: So the government recruited Wake and sent him to the 275 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: US for a year to study the quote homosexual detection 276 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: measures that were being developed in the States. Can we 277 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: just say up front, real quick, so we don't even 278 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: have to mess with it again. The idea of calling 279 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: at the fruit machine, that's already a term of abuse. 280 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a very kind of like looking down 281 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: the nose at an entire segment of the population, calling, 282 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, homosexuals fruits is a very outdated and outmoded, 283 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: nasty bit of slang. Absolutely, absolutely, that's why we've got 284 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: to have disclaimer at the top, you know. And the 285 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: even the even the concept of quote homosexual detection measures 286 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: is pretty problematic, problematic and hilarious. Yeah, as as we 287 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: will discover. So they sent this professor Robert Wake or 288 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: Frank Robert Wake to the US to learn this stuff, 289 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: and they paid him for all of these efforts to 290 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: do this thing, to build the fruit machine. They paid 291 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: him five thousand dollars. Yeah, they paid him five thousand 292 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: dollars to do this. Meanwhile, Peaches lotours over there, she's 293 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: like two nights and already made more than you. And 294 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: that's uh, that five grand is in today's dollars approximately, 295 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: or a little bit more than so. In the States. 296 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: Wake finds this study that an American university professor had 297 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: recently done, not to punish people for their sexual orientation, 298 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: but to figure out what they buy in a grocery store. 299 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting stuff. So he straps a camera. The 300 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: American professor two subjects heads and he measures their pupil 301 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: dilation as they walk through a grocery store to see 302 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: what product packaging attracts their attention most. Oh, is it 303 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: like a dopamine reaction where it's like, I'm excited about this, 304 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: so my body chemistry is acting a certain way. That's 305 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: what they were That's what they were going for, some 306 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: kind of correlation between dilation and interests. Interesting. Interesting, Yeah, 307 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: the science is not perfect because you know, the we 308 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: can we can get into it? Yeah, So Wake decided 309 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: this would be the perfect basis for his project. In 310 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: his mind, he thought, well, if this tells us what 311 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: sort of cereal and macaroni boxes people enjoy, then surely 312 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: this will tell us how they like to get busy. 313 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: Just flash some some ripped deltoids their way and see 314 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: what happens. So he thought, yeah, exactly that. He thought, 315 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: I will create a camera that will measure subjects pupils 316 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: as dirty images. Flash. Uh. Some of the images will 317 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: be completely innocuous, like a picture of an apple or something, 318 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: and then some will be a little bit more dirty, 319 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: you know. And if somebody, if their pupils dilate in 320 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: a certain way when they see um uh, sexually charged 321 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: image of someone of the same gender, then they are 322 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: automatically homosexual. So I'm sorry, just to just to backtrack 323 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: a step. Is this something that someone would have to 324 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: be brought in to have this test administered to them 325 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: or is this something they could like do on people 326 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: out in the wild. Well, let us tell you so. Uh. 327 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: So we're talking about a chair. Really, That's how he started. 328 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna talk to about the administration of 329 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: the fruit machine test. Yeah, there's a chair. It's like 330 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: a chair you would be at a visit to the dentists. 331 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: Then there's some questions while you're sitting on that chair. 332 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: Then they're going to have a display of some sort 333 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: that's going to show those images that Ben was talking about, 334 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: and you really just you sit there and you you 335 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: experience it. Well, what's the pretense for bringing these people in? 336 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: And it seems like such an odd set of tests 337 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: to you know, how do you explain this away? We'll 338 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: get there, okay. So, in theory, this apparatus, as Wake 339 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: was imagining, it would not just measure their eyes, would 340 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: measure as many physiological variables as possible. Are you sweating, 341 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: are you shaking? What's your pulse? That kind of stuff, 342 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: similar to a lie detector tests the way they check 343 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: all those things which are also bullshit, or like the 344 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: replicant test from Blade Runner exactly yeah, yeah, yeah, why 345 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: don't you help the turtle turnover? Right? So they would 346 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: connect those response and correlate these multiple responses to the 347 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: images on the screen. And again, this is like the 348 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: late fifties, early sixties. So think of when you when 349 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: you think of a picture that would be a racy 350 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: or attractive picture of whatever you're into. Translate that to 351 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: the fifties. If you're into like muscular dudes, then think 352 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: some guy in like an animal pelt who looks like 353 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: he walked out of a circus with some dumbbells, or 354 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: maybe just in shorts or making a little little knee 355 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: and the bullish a little bulge, or his pants are 356 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: too high showing the devil's wrist. I don't even okay, 357 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: it's an ankle, Okay, but uh I, I don't think 358 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: that one's gonna take off. To be honest with you, guys, 359 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: we should just keep calling them ankles. But yeah, that's 360 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: the idea, and what a wacky idea, right, it's the same. 361 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: It's it's on the level of building a training bats 362 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: to carry bombs. It's on the level of what was 363 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: that that weird testosterone or gay bomb that the Pentagon 364 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: worked on. Everyone was high on empathetamines at the time. 365 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: They were to spitball and stuff. More and more, I'm 366 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: starting to wonder if you're right about that. I mean, seriously, 367 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: man like, think about it. It's sort of like what 368 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: you hear about a bad eighties record that came out. 369 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: It's like, who green lit this room full of executives 370 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: high on cocaine? That's like, you know what this yeah, 371 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: you know what? Uh? I like the part of the 372 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: song where it just says, hey, Mickey, you're so fine, 373 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: you know what, that's crazy, but let's do that. Let's 374 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: just do that for the whole whole You're blowing my 375 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: mind right now. Hang on wait so uh yeah, I 376 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: I completely as as everyone can tell agree with you 377 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: know about eighties some of those eighties records. But the 378 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: thing about these ridiculous proposals in government is usually they 379 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: never make it past the drawing board. Somebody says, hey, guys, 380 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: I know we've been in the room for a while, 381 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: so what if we could turn cats into robots that 382 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: would be spies for us? And someone's like, I really 383 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: don't think, I mean, put it on the board. Find 384 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: we need ten ideas, and those things never get built. Right. Usually, 385 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy. The Canadian government did actually 386 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 1: build this machine, and they actually used it, and they 387 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: actually called it the fruit machine, and they actually called 388 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: it the fruit machine, but only with the people who 389 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: are in the know, because because as we'll find out, 390 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: most of the subjects who are tested were not in 391 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: the know. In practice, the test was not as comprehensive 392 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: as it was in theory. It primarily used that pupil 393 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: area response as an indicator of a person's sexual orientation, 394 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: and they also measured pulse and sweat, but that was it. 395 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: They would set subjects down and that dentist style chair 396 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: that you described, Matt, and they would be shown those 397 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: images you know, think of what like a vase with 398 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: flowers and then like, uh, person showing a little side 399 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: boob or whatever. And when the pupils dilated during the 400 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: display of an erotic photograph, that would be registered as 401 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: sexual attraction. And so if the subject's eyes dilate when 402 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: shown photos of people in the same gender, then boom, 403 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: they're assumed to be homosexual. Yeah. Um, so we know 404 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: what you asked about the science, like why would that? 405 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: Why would that be a thing? Like how did this 406 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: that function? Aren't there other reasons that somebody's pupils might dilate, 407 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: like like the amount of light entering them. Perhaps absolutely so, 408 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: if the difference from one slide to another is is 409 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: extreme enough or large enough, their pupils are going to dilate. Naturally. 410 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: So there's a really really bright pastel picture, let's say 411 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: that vase with flowers again, or like a badger or something, 412 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: and then it cuts to a darker picture of someone 413 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: being sultry than your pupils are going to dilete because 414 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: there's less light. Yeah, just what kind of lighting are 415 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: they using in the sultry images? That's what we're talking about. 416 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: Is there a key light? Are we you know? Is 417 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: it three lights set up? Like? Are they keynose which 418 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: means you're talking like you know, which means you could 419 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: totally rig the test if if you wanted to get 420 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: someone in trouble? Yeah, Because I mean, is there any 421 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: indication scientifically that this dilation thing really is one to 422 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: one correlated with these emotional responses, Like I know that 423 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: certain drugs will make your pupils do certain things, but 424 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: that seems like a very immediate and intense reaction. I 425 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: just wonder, like what the science is here, and there 426 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: really even is any sand to it. There are some 427 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: physiological reactions fight or flight kind of stuff that will 428 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: that will get humped and arousal can fall into that category, 429 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: but it's like there's shades of it, right, So just 430 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: because someone's eyes widened doesn't necessarily mean they're digging you. 431 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: And also feel like, you know, showing a dude wearing 432 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: some shorts versus a fallus for example, too, you're gonna 433 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: get two different reactions. Especially the fifties, I think people 434 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: would audibly be going your hands would have exploded whether 435 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: or not they were into it. Because now we're talking 436 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: about ambushing people with dick pics for quote unquote national security. 437 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: I still want to know what the pretense says that 438 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: they've got these folks in this chair. Yeah, so before 439 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: we get to that, we have to say they use 440 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: these other tests to check this one out. They would 441 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: monitor subjects physiological responses again, dilation, pulse, sweat, probably a 442 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: little bit of body language to uh when these subjects hurt. 443 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: Certain words, so there be someone testing you to be 444 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: like trigger words actually right to beat someone testing, And 445 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: they would say things like queer, gay, drag, bar, yeah, 446 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: even the word bar, just to see how they respond 447 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: to that. It's interesting and we I don't think we 448 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: had a full list of the words they use because 449 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: they probably had control words as well, and a bunch 450 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: of other things. But yeah, it feels a bit a 451 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: bit strange there too, and super subjective. So the other 452 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: thing that makes this conspiratorial in addition to ridiculous, is 453 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: that they lied to the test subjects. Finally answering that question, 454 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: they completely lied to them. They told government employees that 455 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: the test was meant to measure your stress levels. So 456 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: you sit down, they plug you into the things, they 457 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: monitor your pulse, your sweat, and your dilation. They say, 458 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: we're just going to show you a series of pictures. 459 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: You don't have to say anything, just lay here and 460 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: look at these. And then while you're laying there, and 461 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: perhaps they go also gay drag bar communists, right, you know, 462 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: and and of course there's no sense from anybody. They've 463 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: done a good job of keeping this gay witch hunt 464 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: under wraps because people would not be any the wiser 465 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: if they're getting pulled on for this slightly weird set 466 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: of battery of tests. Right, they kept it under wraps 467 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: ostensibly until the first person was decided. It was decided 468 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: that the first person failed the test, and then that 469 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: person found out because they were too stressed. Right would 470 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: be the first official explanation, but right, unsustainable situation, and 471 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: will examine what happened next after a word from our sponsors. Yeah. 472 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: So there are a bunch of problems with this, primarily 473 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: in the fact that we're gets out someone. How many 474 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: people get fired immediately for stress Yeah, and that in 475 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: addition to that, the fruit machine itself had some problems. 476 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: So as soon as people realize there's something sketchy about 477 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: this quote unquote stress machine, getting people to take the 478 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: test became nearly impossible, even because even if you didn't 479 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: know it was some sort of examination or attempt to 480 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: examine people's sexuality, you would know something's up. Everybody's got dirt, right. 481 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: It's like when you get called in for that second 482 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: P test at your job and you're like, oh, they 483 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: know I used a fake foul. Yeah, but never exactly. 484 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: Never never do that, which eat or to take a 485 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: drug test. Let's say, Poppy, now, did you see that 486 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: someone route to us about your position on DNA and 487 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: free speech? No, I haven't read that yet. We'll check 488 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: it out. We're probably overdue for a listener, man, let's 489 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: do it today. Did I get taken down? I hope 490 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: so I'm not. I'm kidding. No, No, you didn't get 491 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: taken down. We just we got a lot of really 492 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: interesting responses to the DNA questions that we posed earlier. 493 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: I just want to back track. I don't know why 494 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: I said. I hope so, man, I never want to 495 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: see you taken down. But for some reason, I see 496 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: he was being so infallible. I kind of liked the 497 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: idea of someone giving you a little stick in the ribs. 498 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: They you know, it's out of love. Man. No one 499 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: is infallible, that's true. The darkest sides of me have 500 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: yet to be revealed. Cool. Also, all right, well we'll we'll, 501 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: we'll be on hold for evil man. There's more like 502 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: a noir Matt. Yeah, he has a mustache. He has 503 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: a Matt stash like it. So, speaking of infallible and 504 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: things that the fruit machine is not, it had a 505 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: lot of mechanical failures to a lot of them, which 506 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: would add to stress. Like sometimes the camera wouldn't work, 507 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: the pulse readings were off. The people were still stuck 508 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: in that chair. They have no idea what's going on? Yeah, 509 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: the projector would malfunction. Embarrassing. Get your stuff together, Canadian government, 510 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: To be fair, I had a lot of moving parts. 511 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: Why are you justifying, why are you defending? I'm not 512 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: defending the government, I'm defending or intrepid Mr Wake, Professor Wake, 513 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: that's who attempted to make a very complex machine was 514 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: doing his best. One would say unnecessarily complex because people 515 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: the way people describe it now, it sounds or it 516 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: sounds like steampunk. Yeah, and can we hear a little bit. 517 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: I think I'm still having a hard time fully picturing this, 518 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: and I've got the dentist chair vibe. But what's give 519 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: me some other like steampunk elements here? Oh? Sure, there 520 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: was There was always an operator, one of the operators, 521 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: because it required three people at all times to be 522 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: in the room, right, there was one person who in 523 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: the corner would be shoveling coal into your life. Yeah, 524 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, and they're and they're all wearing these gilded 525 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: goggles at all times, right. Yeah. Well, in in honest, 526 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: in honest depictions, people say that it looked like people 527 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: saw it at the time, said that it looked like 528 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,959 Speaker 1: something out of a sci fi novel, because it wasn't. 529 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't just the chair. There's the sensory equipment, there 530 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: are people operating it, and you are you know, it's spooky. 531 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: You're taken to a room isolated by yourself. Your coworkers 532 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: are probably still outside. I'm picturing something like the Ludovico 533 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: machine from Clockwork Orange, where Alex is sitting there and 534 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: he's got his lids a locked open and he's got 535 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: the electrodes coming out, and they're showing him imagery as well. 536 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: So I don't know, gonna choose to see it like that. 537 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: I think that's a good way to see it. And 538 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of controversy in the National Post 539 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: when they reported on Canada's attempt to make you know gaydar. 540 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: Journalist Jack Howand points out that the Canadian War Museum 541 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: displays an electro psychometer with that you know what that 542 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: street name of that is, right? Is it? Like? They? So? 543 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: They yes, and well done. So the E meter, according 544 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: to the War Museum, was used to detect homosexuals during 545 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: the Cold War. But the people who have investigated this, 546 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: various authors who wrote books about the fruit Machine and 547 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: the Cold War Hunt, they say that the E meter 548 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: was never used as part of that. So this means 549 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: that right now, and this is still recent history, we 550 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: have differing versions of what the machine actually did or was. Jeez, 551 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: we have pretty solid evidence that the camera and the 552 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: dilation thing was involved, and you know, flight fight arousal 553 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: pupils dilate like that, but they also dilate when the 554 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: light changes. And because this thing kept breaking down, because 555 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: it was the ed cele of psychological experiments, and because 556 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: people pretty much found out that it was not a 557 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: stress test, they eventually cut the funding for this particular 558 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: part of the program, and the Royal Canadian Mountain Police's 559 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: dream of having a gaitar to screen everybody was put 560 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: on hold in nineteen sixty seven, so from late fifties 561 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: to seven. But this did not stop them from continuing 562 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: their work trying to root out these insidious, dangerous or 563 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: somehow morally questionable people from any government payroll. And they 564 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: eventually started using a new type of machine. Yeah, a 565 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: pleas Plesmo graph. Yeah, a plasmo graph. Plesmo graph. This one, Uh, 566 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: this one makes a little more sense if you're specifically 567 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: trying to figure out the sexual orientation of someone. However, 568 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: it still has major, major flaws. And in this version 569 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: this test, it's checking out specifically blood flow to the 570 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: genital region. Sounds a little invasive, right, perhaps, so same thing, 571 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: the same, same great format from earlier showing people pictures 572 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:52,479 Speaker 1: and seeing if the if they experienced two essence or 573 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: increased blood flow to their genitals. Yeah, so we're not 574 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: going up you know, we're not looking at the messenger 575 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: this time, who might be the pupils or whatever. We're 576 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: going straight to the source, the place, um where magic happens. 577 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's again it makes more sense to 578 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: do it that way. Um, but still, like, how how 579 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: on earth do you get somebody to do that unless 580 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: you are compelling them to do it, like you're gonna 581 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: lose your job if you don't take this test or Yeah, 582 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: and there's still intervening variables because someone has to attach 583 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: that equipment, right yeah, yeah, and say just put this 584 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: on yourself position. It's snugly. It's a massive hr nightmare. Right. 585 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: And that's that's one example. But there's there's more to 586 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: this story because unfortunately, the conspiracy against homosexual people in 587 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: Canada did not stop there. It picked up steam. The 588 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: program that we talked about was shut down eventually after 589 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: around four hundred people lost their jobs. Four people, But 590 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,959 Speaker 1: it's just the beginning. Because similar programs came into play 591 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: and they continued. They eventually ruined thousands and thousands of 592 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: careers in the military, the public service, and of course 593 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: the RCMP. There was legalized discrimination against people in Canada 594 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: for decades and decades and decades beyond the fifties. It 595 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: didn't end, in fact, until the nineteen nineties, which I 596 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: think would surprise a lot of people in the US 597 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: who have again that sort of romanticized stereotype of Canada 598 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: being all group hugs and smiles. So it wasn't until 599 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: November of twenties seventeen last year, as we record this, 600 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: that the government issued an official apology for what is 601 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: now known as the gay purge. Wow. There there is, 602 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: by the way, video of UM that apology and some 603 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: of the reaction to it that you can find online 604 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, from Prime Minister Trudeau. Right. It's interesting too. 605 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,879 Speaker 1: I found UM an article called Vancouver becomes the first 606 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: Canadian city to ban anti LGBT conversion therapy, and that's 607 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: from June six, very recently. That's a couple of days ago. UM. 608 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: And Yeah, as we know, conversion therapy is this notion 609 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: of UM turning someone from homosexual into heterosexual through various 610 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: means over time, everything ranging from like shock treatment to 611 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,439 Speaker 1: just very intensive psychotherapy, and it's very controversial. Uh, and 612 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: for an entire city too actively past legislation to outlaw 613 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: this kind of as pretty forward thinking and progressive. So 614 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: obviously Canada's come a long way. Yeah, And the Canadian 615 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: government now plans to pay up to a hundred and 616 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: ten million Canadian dollars this is around eight five million 617 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: US to compensate victims of this purge. Is it going 618 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: to be enough money? Is is this even a situation 619 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: where a little bit of scratch can can gloss over 620 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: the damage to your career, your personal life, your future, 621 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: your relationships. Quite possibly, Yeah, it's not. I mean I 622 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: I don't think it is, just for a little more 623 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: information on that stuff. So each individual person will be 624 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: eligible to up to a hundred and fifty thousand Canadian 625 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: dollars in compensation for this up to up to Yes, absolutely, 626 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: And one of the other big issues is that a 627 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: lot of the people who were victims of this practice, 628 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: in this test and retaliation by the government have died 629 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, so they're gonna put I think, um, 630 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: fifteen million Canadian dollars towards an array of memorial measures 631 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: for for a lot of these people. So at least, 632 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's one thing. The legacy will be 633 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: changed and altered and improved in some way. Yeah. Yeah, 634 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: And they're also I think they're also talking about didn't 635 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,240 Speaker 1: they say something about expunging the record of certain things. Yeah, 636 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: unjust convictions from people charged under laws that criminalized their sexuality. 637 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: And we're not in any way saying that the US 638 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: is any better in this respect. And it's true that 639 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: even today, in as many people know, people who do 640 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: not identify by the I guess the prevalent gender binaries 641 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: or sexuality more rays of the world or the world 642 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: in which we live at large, those people are still 643 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: in tremendous danger in many countries, yes, physical danger and 644 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: their death penalties. So so this is not they're not 645 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: sentencing these people to death. I mean, they are sentencing 646 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,439 Speaker 1: them to career death. But this is a case where 647 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,439 Speaker 1: there was an active conspiracy against people whose only crime 648 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: was something that they could not control. And you know, 649 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: we go back to this point. I think Matt, you 650 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: and I mentioned this a little bit off air with 651 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: each other, but what what do you guys think do 652 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: you think that these people, given the social stigmas in 653 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties would have been a legit security risk. 654 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: I think there are so many reasons for someone to 655 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: be a security risk because of their personal either hang 656 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: ups or interests or things that they do outside of 657 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: the work environment. I think, yeah, they are all kinds 658 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: of weaknesses, and that's one of those things that you 659 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: can't really control for as a large organization like that. Um, 660 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, absolutely, everything from gambling habits. Yeah, I 661 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: mean there there's so so many things that's saying the 662 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: show is obviously a much more personal um than data 663 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: against this type of stuff via the government than it 664 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: was looked at us, like specifically about being a security risk. 665 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: Have you guys ever seen that movie The Lives of Others. 666 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: It's about Berlin. Um, the Communist Party is like spying 667 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: on everybody, and it's like it's like nineteen four dude. 668 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: It's like kids are turning in their fathers and stuff, like, 669 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, as outing them as being Communists. So it's 670 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: like it doesn't require a lot, it doesn't take a lot, 671 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 1: you know, because everyone's got things to hide, whether whether 672 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: it's this or any number of other things. So this 673 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: was very clearly like they were trying to clean house 674 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: of a of an undesirable type. Well, yeah, yes, I 675 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: appreciate you say that, because this comparison holds true for 676 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: the entire sequence of events. But here's the other thing, 677 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 1: and maybe I'm being a jerk about this, but when 678 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: we see cases where uh an authority figure, whether appointed 679 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: by the people or religious authority figure for instance, whenever 680 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: we see cases where they're invasively obsessed with someone else's 681 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: sexuality or practice and they talk about how bad it is, 682 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: and when it gets to a more and more extreme 683 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: cartoonish degree, I started questioning that person, of course, you 684 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, it's it's a pretty common 685 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: trope here in the US that some of the politicians 686 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: or religious figures who are super against any kind of 687 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 1: like same sex relationship are the same people who later 688 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,280 Speaker 1: get caught doing the things that they said were so terrible, 689 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: right you know, Oh, no, it's totally true. It's it's 690 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: a definite trope. You see it in movies like, for example, 691 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: American Beauty, for example, the colonel character played by Chris Cooper, 692 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: who is so horrible to his side, then like this 693 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 1: guy that's like macho influence, and then it turns out 694 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: that he is secretly okay, and that's certainly something. The 695 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: way that manifests itself, that kind of self loathing, it 696 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: can become very toxic and it can actually create whole 697 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: movements within governments, you know, people that have power, They 698 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: can change the tide of the way people are treated. 699 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 1: You know. It's it's fascinating and terrifying, and of course 700 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: we believe in empowerment. It is, to quote Spider Man, 701 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: both of both of power and responsibility, or to paraphrase 702 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:40,800 Speaker 1: rather and fortunately this concludes our episode on a happy note. 703 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,800 Speaker 1: Some sort of justice has been met. Now are things perfect, 704 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:51,320 Speaker 1: of course not, but are they moving in a better direction. Absolutely. 705 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed this episode. We also hope 706 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: to hear from you, because again, you, specifically you are 707 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: the best part of this show. But why why do 708 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,399 Speaker 1: we keep saying that let's put our money where our 709 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: mouth is? Enough about us? What about you? You guys 710 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: want to do some listener mail? Oh yeah, Our first 711 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,839 Speaker 1: message comes from Austin, who says, hey, guys, my name 712 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: is Austin and I'm a longtime fan of the podcast. 713 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: I was listening to your most recent episode on the 714 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: Golden State Killer and have a quick anecdote for you 715 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: regarding something you mentioned about the twenty three and me 716 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: ancestry DNA tests. The story is about something I believe 717 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: Matt mentioned. Oh boy, he was talking about a DNA 718 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: test and finding out that your dad is not in 719 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: fact your dad. For privacy reasons, I won't mention how 720 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: my family knows this person, but I do know someone 721 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: who that exact scenario happened to. Here's where it gets crazy. 722 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: The person took an ancestry DNA test and when the 723 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: results came back, she found out she had multiple siblings 724 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,399 Speaker 1: from her mother's previous sexual engagements and she never knew 725 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: about them, and her father was not her actual father. 726 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: The people she had considered her siblings her whole life 727 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: were in fact only half siblings. This woman was in 728 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,720 Speaker 1: her fifties when she found this out. This the parents 729 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: admitted to this when she confronted them. And obviously the 730 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: scenario is absolutely awful for the person involved as it 731 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: is highly emotional um and I can only imagine it 732 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,240 Speaker 1: breaks a family apart. Wow, Okay, that's heavy, Austin. Anyways, 733 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: I just thought i'd share this because it was mentioned 734 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: directly on the show. Keep doing what you're doing, guys. 735 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,839 Speaker 1: I love the show. Um. Then Austin says, oh, he says, 736 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 1: we deserve raises. Guys, that's kind of that's kind of nice, 737 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 1: you listening bosses. We deserve rains the show. Dude, give 738 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: us some more money anyway, and then Austin says, keep 739 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: it up. So thanks so much for writing in, Austin, Austin, 740 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much for writing in. We've received a 741 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:49,879 Speaker 1: lot of interesting stuff regarding DNA in general, the math 742 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,399 Speaker 1: behind it, the science behind the ethical implications, and we 743 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: want to thank not just you, Austin, but a lot 744 00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: of your fellow listeners who shared some very personal story 745 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: is with us. You've got another good one for us, 746 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: Ben Well, I think you've got one today. I'll drop 747 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: one here for you. Um. This one was no subject 748 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: very grey, um and from an email addressed with it's 749 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: just numbers at my picks Messages dot com. It's a 750 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: very very strange I was. I thought it was maybe 751 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: a bot at first, but no bot has this much 752 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: tale to tell. Let me tell you what, gentlemen. I 753 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: have yet to listen to the latest podcast about the 754 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: original night Stalker because It's a difficult subject for me. 755 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: I live in Anaheim, in southern California, where Richard Ramirez 756 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: was committing these crimes. My boyfriend's father worked at an 757 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 1: aluminum plant in Garden Grove, where he later realized the 758 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,760 Speaker 1: temp who was hired and quit, who talked about killing 759 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: a woman and making a sandwich after it was actually 760 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,240 Speaker 1: the night stalker. People who heard him talk Um said 761 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: they had just taken his stories with a grain of salt. 762 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 1: To say people in our community were frightened is a 763 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: huge understatement. Likewise, when this monster was caught by citizens, 764 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: many wished the police had not intervened as quickly as 765 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: they did. I'm thinking she's implying there would have been 766 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: some sort of pitchfork brigade, lynch mob kind of situation. Um, 767 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 1: this man was a beast. I believe life in prison 768 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: was a waste of taxpayer money. Needless to say, I 769 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: was of an age when this serial killers actions, among 770 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,479 Speaker 1: a few other incidents, had a horrific lingering effect on me. Um. 771 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 1: And then this person goes on to say, you have 772 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: had some pretty heavy topics on the podcast lately, which 773 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: I have listened to. I want to thank you for 774 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 1: the research and work you do to keep us entertained, 775 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: educated and inquisitive, But could you please find a lighter 776 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,240 Speaker 1: topic or two to dive into in the coming weeks. 777 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: Hopefully this one satisfied. Hopefully so we mentioned that at 778 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,879 Speaker 1: the topic as well. Um, I'll chime in someday. Maybe 779 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: I'll chime in on another topic and tell you about 780 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,359 Speaker 1: the other incidents which had an impact on me at 781 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: that time in my life. Big fan blessings, Um, Lisa, Yes, 782 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 1: thanks so much for writing, Lisa, and I also want 783 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: to thank you personally for of the great stuff that 784 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,439 Speaker 1: you have posted on Here's where it gets crazy, man. 785 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 1: Lisa is a regular contributor to the fan page. I 786 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: knew I recognized that name. Yeah, a fan community is 787 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,600 Speaker 1: so much fun. It's so rewarding, and I really love 788 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,560 Speaker 1: everyone's contributions. It's such a cool thing to go in 789 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: and explore like you all are the best part of 790 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: no joke. And I just I don't know, I just 791 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,799 Speaker 1: this is something our social media team said we should do, 792 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 1: and I was kind of skeptical, but man, it's just 793 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,160 Speaker 1: been a joy. It's so much more fun than just 794 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,360 Speaker 1: the traditional Facebook page that doesn't have the reach that 795 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 1: these things do, and it's just there's not as much 796 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,759 Speaker 1: engagement because of the way Facebook's algorithms work. So this 797 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,839 Speaker 1: is a really cool way to get right in there 798 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,440 Speaker 1: and hang out. And we we definitely do that. And uh, 799 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,600 Speaker 1: let's see, do we have time for one more? I 800 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,880 Speaker 1: love one more? Great, so let's have one more. That 801 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,680 Speaker 1: ends on a bit of a conundrum in a question. 802 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 1: This comes from our Serial Killer Memorabilia episode. Stephen P 803 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,680 Speaker 1: writes in and says, Hi, guys, first of all, thanks 804 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,799 Speaker 1: for the great podcast. You've played a big part in 805 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,920 Speaker 1: me moving from watching TV to listening to all kinds 806 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,840 Speaker 1: of stuff I'd never heard otherwise. Yeah, cut the chords, Steve. 807 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 1: Just a quick thought, he says, about your questions about 808 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 1: people making money off of other people's crimes, what about 809 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 1: people writing about crimes, taking photos of crimes. They are 810 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 1: undoubtedly making money off of the crimes of others, even 811 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,600 Speaker 1: if they're not actually selling bits and pieces. Many journalists 812 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: would fall into this categories they document all the various 813 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 1: horrors human beings perpetrate. An extension of this would be 814 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: people writing about historical crimes. The Holocaust came to mind, 815 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,120 Speaker 1: and how would they figure in making money from others crimes. 816 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: Then essentially the question could be how much time has 817 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:45,040 Speaker 1: to pass before this stuff enters the public domain? Or alternatively, 818 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,840 Speaker 1: where can we draw the line if indeed a line 819 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: can never be drawn? Thanks again for all the stimulating 820 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 1: content and for having interested me enough that I actually 821 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:59,360 Speaker 1: write in about something. Cheers Stevie. Thanks Stevie. And you know, 822 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,520 Speaker 1: to your point, we do get paid to make this show. 823 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: That's you know, that's interesting because this is the this 824 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: is the second time the listener mail segment that this 825 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: is this has come up because I was thinking about 826 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,080 Speaker 1: how excellent these questions are, and I want you guys 827 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: take but to briefly tackle it the way that I 828 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 1: would the way that I would analyze that is, or 829 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: the way that I process that is to say, the 830 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: question about how much time has to pass is is important. 831 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: But I think more directly, there's a question of what 832 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,719 Speaker 1: can be learned from what what can be learned from 833 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,400 Speaker 1: learning about these things from like further examination or I 834 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,640 Speaker 1: don't know, just looking at it in a different light. Right, 835 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 1: are we preventing future disasters or future crimes from occurring 836 00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: by by learning more about this? Are you know, they're 837 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:07,320 Speaker 1: What I'm saying is, yeah, there's obviously the exploitative vicarious 838 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:12,440 Speaker 1: morbidity catharsis that that plays such a large role in 839 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:21,760 Speaker 1: crime overall, but there's also a phenomenal opportunity to teach, 840 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,640 Speaker 1: to educate, to prevent things from happening in the future. 841 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: Because to to that question about historical crimes, you know, 842 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,760 Speaker 1: there's the old cliche is a cliche because it's true. 843 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,280 Speaker 1: If you forget history, you're you're just gonna do it again. 844 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,120 Speaker 1: You're gonna repeat it. All those mistakes come in your way. 845 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,520 Speaker 1: So thank you so much to Austin, Lisa and Stevie 846 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,719 Speaker 1: and everybody else who has written in that we haven't 847 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,799 Speaker 1: gotten to yet. I think we are overdue for a 848 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: listener Maile episode three. Thank you so much. And if 849 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 1: you want to write to us or find us so, 850 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,479 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show, 851 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook where we're a conspiracy stuff. You can 852 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: go to stuff they don't want you to know dot 853 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,920 Speaker 1: com and check out our new logo. It looks so awesome. 854 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,920 Speaker 1: Job Paul, you're the best, um well and Pam it 855 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,520 Speaker 1: was it was a collabo. Oh yes, you're right, Paul 856 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,120 Speaker 1: and Pam and I planted the seed um and I want, 857 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: I really want just to put this out there. If 858 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: we put out a stuff they don't want you to know, 859 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: hot sauce, would would you buy it and consume it? 860 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,320 Speaker 1: Because I really want to make like a crazy hot 861 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: hot sauce or dare we say a T shirt? A 862 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,560 Speaker 1: T shirt would be fine. A hoodie? Uh? A container 863 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,680 Speaker 1: of aluminum foil also peaked buying the curtain. Matt is 864 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: a huge, huge, He's a hot head. He's a hot 865 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:51,280 Speaker 1: sauce head. Yeah, he's got hot sauce in his bag swag. Yeah. Yeah, 866 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,000 Speaker 1: is that that's a thing. Yeah, it's a it's a 867 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, hot sauce is great and 868 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,560 Speaker 1: I would recommend it, and I want to make something. 869 00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: So we're gonna we're gonna see if we do that. 870 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,680 Speaker 1: But we are going to try and hopefully have some 871 00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,919 Speaker 1: stuff on a store soon that's easily accessible, on stuff 872 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,359 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, So look out for that. Oh, 873 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: also real quick. Kyle Sherman wrote in on Twitter and 874 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: said the new social media read for the podcast is 875 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,160 Speaker 1: killing me. S T d w y t K. Maybe 876 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,359 Speaker 1: could be st d w y t K. I just 877 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:33,040 Speaker 1: keep hearing STD and thinking sexually transmitted disease. Then I giggle. 878 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,359 Speaker 1: Maybe the read is genius because it becomes hard to forget. Well, 879 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: now we have to keep you. That's the point. That's 880 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,680 Speaker 1: the Yeah, we knew you were going to write in 881 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,160 Speaker 1: because we had some psychicks from a couple episodes back. 882 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,279 Speaker 1: We'll talk to us about that. We knew it was 883 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,440 Speaker 1: going to happen. So if you want to call us, 884 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,840 Speaker 1: the number is you know we should do when we 885 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,840 Speaker 1: get T shirts made, we should have this number printed 886 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,360 Speaker 1: on the back of the T shirts. Every being cool design. 887 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 1: But what is it? I don't even know. The number 888 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,480 Speaker 1: is one eight three three s T D w y 889 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,279 Speaker 1: t K. Yeah, just think of sexually transmitted diseases w 890 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:13,080 Speaker 1: y t K. Yeah. Uh. Then you can also find 891 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,520 Speaker 1: us on Instagram, of course on our fantastic community page. 892 00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,239 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. You can also find us 893 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,200 Speaker 1: on Twitter, and that's it. We don't exist anywhere. No, 894 00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:29,320 Speaker 1: I'm kidding. You can say you can say Show's name 895 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 1: into a mirror three times in the dark. Yeah, that's 896 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,680 Speaker 1: one of the best ones, but the absolute best one. 897 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, Paul. Wrap it up is send us an email. 898 00:56:37,960 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com.