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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha and welcome to stephone

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Speaker 1: Never told Your Prediction off by hurt Rightio.

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Speaker 2: And we are back with a new episode of Feminist

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Speaker 2: Around the World. Before we start, let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: put this content warning and trigger warning about loss and pregnancy, stillbirth,

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Speaker 2: and anti reproductive health laws. There's a lot going on

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Speaker 2: here in the US if you didn't know. We have

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Speaker 2: elections and obviously a continued fight for equal rights, including

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Speaker 2: women's rights for reproductive health, and the aftermath of the

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Speaker 2: repeal of Roe v. Wade has been pretty intense, with

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Speaker 2: women being jailed and charged for neglect or even murder,

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Speaker 2: and some who had to risk their help and lives

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Speaker 2: because of the restrictions of the repell and those who

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Speaker 2: are taking advantage of how to use it in order

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Speaker 2: to strip away pregnant people's rights. Yes, that's a very

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Speaker 2: big topic right now. I know most of you know,

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Speaker 2: and with that, we know there are testimonies all around

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Speaker 2: the world who will understand the repercussions of all of this.

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Speaker 2: So today we are talking about a specific incident and

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Speaker 2: the advocacy work of activists. Theodora Deale's Carmen Vasquez Vasquez's

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Speaker 2: life changed drastically when her pregnancy became an emergency situation.

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Speaker 2: So after being in pain for several days, she tried

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Speaker 2: to ask for help from her management while she was working,

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Speaker 2: and at the time, she was working at a school

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Speaker 2: in the cafeteria and she was around nine months pregnant

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Speaker 2: with her second child. After her supervisors refused to help

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Speaker 2: her or get help for her, Vasquez was found passed

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Speaker 2: out in the bathroom with her stillborn and instead of

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Speaker 2: getting help after the incident, Vasquez was arrested and charged

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Speaker 2: with aggravated homicide.

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Speaker 1: Here's her own words about that traumatic day from Global

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Speaker 1: citizen dot org. On Friday, July thirteenth, two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: I was living a desired and full term pregnancy. It

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Speaker 1: was a Friday the thirteenth that I will remember forever

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Speaker 1: a belief that what I lived through was part of

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Speaker 1: my destiny. I was nine months pregnant and getting ready

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Speaker 1: for my baby to be born. I was working in

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Speaker 1: a school coffee shop. It was the last day of

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Speaker 1: the week and I was getting ready to deliver my

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Speaker 1: baby on Saturday. However, that Friday, around five o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon, I began to feel pain, a very strong

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Speaker 1: labor pain. Since it was Friday, my colleagues had left early,

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Speaker 1: so I was alone. The pain started and I had

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Speaker 1: to stay there because it was a four hour drive

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Speaker 1: from sansalthdoor to my house. I grabbed the phone and

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Speaker 1: started making emergency calls. I called nine one one, because

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Speaker 1: in my agony, I only remembered that number, and asked

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Speaker 1: for an ambulance. I explained that I was pregnant, that

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Speaker 1: I was expecting my baby and I was in labor,

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Speaker 1: that I couldn't stand the pain, that I needed the

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Speaker 1: doctors to come urgently. They didn't come. They never came,

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Speaker 1: and since they never came, my baby had to be

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Speaker 1: born where I was. I had horrible bleeding and I fainted.

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Speaker 2: Vasquez lived in Elsavador, and at the time and even today,

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Speaker 2: they have a complete abortion ban without any exceptions. With

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Speaker 2: this abortion ban, a pregnant person can be imprisoned for

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Speaker 2: up to eight years for many cases that they classify

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Speaker 2: as an abortion, whether it's still born or miscarriage of fetuses.

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Speaker 2: But for Vescuez, she was charged in sentenced with a

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Speaker 2: minimum of thirty years in prison. Here's some more information

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Speaker 2: about the abortion laws in El Salvador from Progressive International.

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Speaker 2: El Savador has some of the world's harshest anti abortion laws.

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Speaker 2: Not only is abortion prohibited in all circumstances, including in

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Speaker 2: cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the

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Speaker 2: pregnant person is at risk, it is also severely punished,

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Speaker 2: with up to eight years in prison. But women who

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Speaker 2: suffer an obstetric complication such as miscarriages or still birth

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Speaker 2: are punished even more harshly. They can be prosecuted for

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Speaker 2: a murder or aggravated murder and face up to fifty

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Speaker 2: years inside. Hundreds of women, most of them poor, have

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Speaker 2: been sentenced to long prison terms. And that's a big

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Speaker 2: conversation about how most of the women who are in

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Speaker 2: prison are probably classified as poor or low income social status.

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Speaker 2: So there's definitely a level here. And a bit more

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Speaker 2: from Foreign policy dot Com twenty five years ago this April,

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Speaker 2: and this was written in twenty twenty three, El Salvador

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Speaker 2: passed a total ban on abortions, no exceptions for rape, incest,

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Speaker 2: or the health or life of the mother, transforming society

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Speaker 2: in this Central American nation. Now the ban might finally

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Speaker 2: be overturned the Inter American Court of a Human rights

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Speaker 2: has begun hearing Beatrice versus El Savador, investigating the case

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Speaker 2: of a woman who was seriously ill from lupus arthritis

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Speaker 2: and renal failure, but denied an abortion, even though the

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Speaker 2: fetus would not survive outside of the uterus. The woman

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Speaker 2: died not long after. With this court case, the court

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Speaker 2: will rule for the first time on whether the absolute

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Speaker 2: prohibition of abortion rights violates a woman's right to life

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Speaker 2: and health. Spoiler alert, They did not. They did not

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Speaker 2: pass this If I remember correctly, it is still intact.

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Speaker 1: And the article continues quote. With over fifty women incarcerated

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Speaker 1: since the band was passed, El Salvador is one of

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Speaker 1: the most widely documented examples of a country imprisoning women

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Speaker 1: for abortion. The Fuller Project and Foreign Policy have reviewed

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Speaker 1: court documents or pardon request related to twenty five cases

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Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety nine to twenty eighteen a pregnant women

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Speaker 1: accused of aggravated homicide, attempted aggravated homicide, and abortion. They

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Speaker 1: reveal how the country's abortion band made neighbors, doctors, police

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Speaker 1: and judges, the very people meant to help these women

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Speaker 1: turn against them instead. The system doesn't seek the truth.

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Speaker 1: It seeks to blame these women, Cortes.

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Speaker 2: Said, right, And Abigail Cortez is actually one of the

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Speaker 2: women with the Citizens Group for the Decriminalization of abortion

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Speaker 2: in El Savador, so she's been working quite hard in

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Speaker 2: overturning this laws. But I think that last statement was

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Speaker 2: really really important to have that, Yes, they don't care,

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Speaker 2: they don't care to say the truth, and we know

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Speaker 2: what's happening in the US. It's kind of the similar

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Speaker 2: level where they use misinformation and disinformation to try to

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Speaker 2: say that people are killing babies because they're fetuses anyway, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Moving on. So, though the records showed that Vasquez is

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Speaker 2: stillborn had not taken a breath, the courts refused to

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Speaker 2: hear her out, and even in twenty seventeen, ten years

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Speaker 2: after her being in prison, they wouldn't. In an article

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Speaker 2: written in univision dot Com in twenty seventeen, they report

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Speaker 2: a court in El Salvador decided late Wednesday to uphold

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Speaker 2: a thirty year prison sentence for Theodora del Carmen Vasquez,

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Speaker 2: who gave birth to a stillborn baby in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and seven. Prosecutors accused her of killing her newborn and

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Speaker 2: charged her with homicide. After the verdict was announced, the

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Speaker 2: room fell silent, except for the cries of Vasquez's mother.

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Speaker 2: Vesquez turned to her lawyers in shock and frustration. Theodora

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Speaker 2: was shocked, says her lawyer, Katie Rossinos. She said, I'm

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Speaker 2: innocent and I need to keep going.

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Speaker 1: The article goes on. Prosecutors did not elaborate on their

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Speaker 1: reasoning Wednesday, only stating that evidence was not sufficient to

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Speaker 1: clear Vesquez of charges. The judges who decided to uphold

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Speaker 1: the Senates were the same judges who sentenced her ten

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: Right, and she wasn't the only one to go through

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Speaker 2: similar ordeals. Vasquez was one of seventeen who were all

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Speaker 2: sentenced to aggravated homicide from nineteen ninety nine to twenty eleven.

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Speaker 2: The women were actually referred to as last seventeen. I

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Speaker 2: know that's going to be in Spanish and I can't

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Speaker 2: remember the seventeen Spanish apology shawl. But yeah, so they

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Speaker 2: are referred to as that.

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Speaker 1: And it was in prison that Vasquez realized she needed

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Speaker 1: to do something to not only advocate for herself, but

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Speaker 1: others in situations similar to her. Here's some more from

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Speaker 1: her article in Global citizen quote. While I was in prison,

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Speaker 1: I started working with an organization called Timpo's Nuevos Tiatro.

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Speaker 1: I started doing theater and then they asked me if

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Speaker 1: I wanted to work with them because I liked reading

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Speaker 1: books and empowering women. I really started my activism from

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Speaker 1: the inside. Then I met women prisoners accused of a

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Speaker 1: crime similar to mine. I realized that the only way

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Speaker 1: out is to take strength from ourselves to be united.

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Speaker 1: At the beginning, the discrimination that a company does was

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Speaker 1: very strong, and many times we did not have access

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Speaker 1: to anything. Even if we went to serve our food

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Speaker 1: at lunchtime in the prison, other women who were there

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Speaker 1: would take it away from us because they said that

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Speaker 1: we deserved to die slowly. We were twenty four women

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Speaker 1: in there who were in prison for a situation just

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Speaker 1: like mine. But we were very strong, united in a

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Speaker 1: very good circle. We had decided to fight together. Despite

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Speaker 1: so much pain and so much injustice, I moved forward.

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Speaker 1: The truth is that when I think about everything we

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Speaker 1: have been through together and how we are now, what

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Speaker 1: we have achieved is very nice. The situation forces you

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Speaker 1: to bring out the lioness in you.

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Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, she was finally able to be released

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Speaker 2: with the help of outside campaigns and organizations on the world.

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Speaker 2: It took almost eleven years, but she was finally freed. However,

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Speaker 2: she was freed with her sentence commuted and not overturned.

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Speaker 2: She was the sixteenth woman to be released after the

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Speaker 2: different organizations or the cases of these different women. So

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Speaker 2: here's what she had to say in the Global Citizen

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Speaker 2: about her release. I regained my freedom on February fifteenth,

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, after being sentenced to thirty years in prison.

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Speaker 2: I was released after ten years and seven months. I

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Speaker 2: really managed to get out thanks to the campaigning efforts

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Speaker 2: of different organizations and because of my good behavior. I

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Speaker 2: adapted to the space and the place. In order to survive,

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Speaker 2: I had to learn to live with all the bad

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Speaker 2: things around me, even though I was not guilty of

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Speaker 2: what they were accusing me of. I always knew that

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Speaker 2: even though I was inside the jail, the jail was

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Speaker 2: not inside me. That is something that separated me from jail.

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Speaker 2: I was deprived of my freedom, but at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I was mentally building a life out here, a life

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Speaker 2: that is now becoming a reality.

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Speaker 1: However, it wasn't so easy to readjust and she continues,

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Speaker 1: it is difficult to be released because it is difficult

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Speaker 1: to reintegrate into society, to deal with the social stigma,

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Speaker 1: the lack of integration, the lack of opportunities. My first

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Speaker 1: day of freedom was hard, sad, difficult. I've been deprived

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Speaker 1: of my freedom, but I had a group of women

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Speaker 1: I was working with. I wanted to get out, but

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Speaker 1: I was split in two because I was very sad

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Speaker 1: to leave the rest of the women in there. I

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Speaker 1: had to level everything. I had to think about the

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Speaker 1: women inside and think about my family. The day I

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Speaker 1: was free again, I was very happy because I saw

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Speaker 1: my son again, my parents, my brothers, and my nephews

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Speaker 1: and nieces. We are a very big family. I have

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Speaker 1: eleven siblings and they were all there. But I was

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Speaker 1: also afraid for the future, and I didn't know where

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Speaker 1: to start.

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Speaker 2: However, again this didn't stop her. She would go on

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Speaker 2: to work with a Tempos Nuevo Tietral and also go

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Speaker 2: on to study and go to the university, and it

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Speaker 2: was then she started her own project moheris libres al savador.

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Speaker 2: So here's some information from the Progressive International on the

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Speaker 2: organization on regaining their freedom. She and Alberodo founded the

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Speaker 2: nonprofit organization Moheres Libres el Salvador. The group provides training

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Speaker 2: and support for women who, like them, have been deprived

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Speaker 2: of their liberty to enable them to reintegrate into society.

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Speaker 2: The training is focused on personal growth and covers legal issues,

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Speaker 2: human rights, gender and sex, and reproductive of health. For Vasquez,

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Speaker 2: activism is her daily work. When she or her colleagues

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Speaker 2: here via social media or word of mouth that a

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Speaker 2: woman has been in prison for an obstetric emergency, they

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Speaker 2: get to work. They meet her in prison and work

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Speaker 2: with the lawyers who offer free legal support and representation.

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Speaker 1: And she goes on to explain the project with global

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Speaker 1: citizen quote. Our project has several pillars. The first component

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Speaker 1: is health because when we leave prison, health is a

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Speaker 1: priority since we do not receive any follow up care

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Speaker 1: there and with all the difficulties we experience, we come

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Speaker 1: out sick. The second is psychological support. The third is

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Speaker 1: legal support to follow up the women who are still

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Speaker 1: in open process. The fourth is scholarship so that they

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Speaker 1: can study. The fifth is employment, and the sixth is housing.

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Speaker 1: We have built these six pillars as results of every

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Speaker 1: need that the women have expressed throughout the project. Step

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Speaker 1: by step we have been covering all these needs. The

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Speaker 1: important thing has been to see how the women are

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Speaker 1: becoming empowered. They are talking about their rights, they are

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Speaker 1: learning things. Some are already studying at universities. Some have

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Speaker 1: graduated as nurses. We have women who graduate tourism, law teachers, communicators.

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Speaker 1: It has taken a lot of work, but each of

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Speaker 1: my colleagues has put a lot of effort and determination

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Speaker 1: into believing in the projects and saying yes, you have

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Speaker 1: to be encouraged. It is not the same to have

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Speaker 1: someone speak for you as it is for you to

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Speaker 1: say directly how you feel.

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Speaker 2: And she and her crew continue to fight for their

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Speaker 2: rights and vindication. She talks about her goals and her dreams,

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Speaker 2: and she writes in the Global Citizen, I want my

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Speaker 2: story to be known. There is a way to change

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Speaker 2: the world if you speak out. I want women to

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Speaker 2: know that after present, there is also hope. There's no

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Speaker 2: way to turn back time. But coming together has given

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Speaker 2: us opportunities and empowered us. We women have to open doors,

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Speaker 2: open roads for ourselves, pass through. Although I'm free, I

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Speaker 2: still feel I am in the process of reintegration because

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Speaker 2: there are things that are still difficult. I have a

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Speaker 2: university degree, I have won different awards for all my

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Speaker 2: work and for my preservance and struggles. The opportunities to

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Speaker 2: have a legally constituted organization gives me a lot of

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Speaker 2: hope because that opens doors for us. But there's still

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Speaker 2: a lot to do, and one of my biggest goals

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Speaker 2: is to help these women find ways to survive and

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Speaker 2: be independent. The independence of each woman is what interests me.

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Speaker 2: To achieve that, I need to make sure that every

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Speaker 2: woman receives moral and psychological support within the spaces of

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Speaker 2: Moheres libres. That is one of my dreams and objectives.

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Speaker 2: I will continue working to achieve it, and that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what she's been doing. I think it's interesting because there's

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Speaker 2: also an article from many human rights lawyers as well

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Speaker 2: as activists from El Salvador trying to tell the us

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Speaker 2: this is what's going to happen, giving us a cautionary

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Speaker 2: tell about what is happening in the slippery slope that

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Speaker 2: happens through the as. In fact, there wasn't one article

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Speaker 2: and I'm not going to give you complete quotes, and

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Speaker 2: it's not necessarily talk about because it's not about us necessarily,

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Speaker 2: but where One El Salvadorian lawyer says that it is

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Speaker 2: known that some of the authorities in El Salvador are

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Speaker 2: actually talked to the US authorities and talk about how

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Speaker 2: to make these changes happen. So just as the word

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Speaker 2: think about, but also to remember people like Theodora, who

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Speaker 2: has done the work even though she has gone through

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Speaker 2: so much, and who continues to do the work to

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Speaker 2: help others through these paths.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and finding that camaraderie with other women and other

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Speaker 1: people have gone through similar things. Because yes, this is

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Speaker 1: something we're gonna be talking about a lot I feel

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Speaker 1: in the future. But yes, as always, if you have

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Speaker 1: any suggestions for this segment or anything at all, please

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Speaker 1: contact us. You can email us a Stephanie Mom steph

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Speaker 1: atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: most of the podcast or on Instagram and TikTok that

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Speaker 1: stuff one ever told you are also on YouTube. We

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Speaker 1: have a tea public store, and we have a book

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Speaker 1: you can get wherever you get here books things as

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Speaker 1: always too. Our super producer Christina, our executive producer Ma

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Speaker 1: and your contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you

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Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff I'll Never Told You is production of

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

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