WEBVTT - That 'Aha!' Moment with Caroline Fitzgerald 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.360 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're scouring 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:06.520 the Volleyball Championship Challenge brackets to see which of y'all 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.240 slices we're looking up at and who we've got bragging 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.480 rights over. It's Monday, December night. On today's show, I 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.000 talked to Caroline Fitzgerald, CEO and founder of Goals Sports 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.000 and host of the Business Case for Women's Sports podcast. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.119 We talk about the moment she knew she needed to 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.000 start her own marketing and consultancy business for women's sports, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.200 what she's learned from connecting brands and leagues, and more. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.360 Plus a brick wall with a magic hand enters the 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.639 Good Game Hall of Fame. It's all coming up right 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:39.800 after this Welcome Back Slices meiche has got your need 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.519 to know today, Take it away, Mesh. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:45.120 Thanks Sarah. 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.920 In WNVA News on Friday, the Golden State Valkyrie selected 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.839 eleven players in the league's first expansion draft since two 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.080 thousand and eight. The draft was held at the San 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.720 Francisco Museum of Modern Art in golfer Michelle Wee west 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.280 Rapper E forty in former MMBA Golden State Warrior Baron 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.760 Davis announced the picks at the podium. We'll link to 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.440 the fullest of Hooper selected in our show notes. Head 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.800 coach Natalie Nicasse told ESPN viewers before the selections were 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:11.760 made that she wants her team to hang its hat 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.120 on the defensive end and be composed of true competitors. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:17.479 If you take a look at the fullest of selections, 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.679 the Valkyrie shows a lot of underrated glue players like 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.640 twenty twenty four WNBA champ Kaylea Thornton, Monique Billings, and 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.480 Temmy Fak Benley who fit. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:27.360 The bill perfectly. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.240 And there's one other important piece I want to note. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.119 The Valkyries did not select a player from the Seattle Storm. Now, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.200 in case you missed our brief rundown on how the 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.720 draft worked, each of the twelve WNBA teams chose six 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.280 players to protect, meaning Golden State could not select them 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.600 in the draft. Now, we don't know officially who Seattle 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.080 chose to protect, but I'd bet my car that two 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.559 time WNBA League Champ Jewel Lloyd was in that mix. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.920 Just last week, though, Lloyd requested a trade. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.600 Out of Seattle following an investigation into claims of bullying 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.920 and herne against the coaching staff. The investigation found no violations. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.320 Putting two and two together, it's possible to Storm and 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.600 Valkyries could be in cahoots manufacturing a trade that would 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.080 send Lloyd's south to the Bay for something in return, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.760 because if I were an exec, I wouldn't want to 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.640 give her up for nothing in an expansion draft. Lloyd 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.960 still has a year left on her contract with Seattle 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:22.799 and is one of the highest paid players in the 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.200 WNBA will keep you updated on how the Valkyrie's franchise 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:31.320 and its roster evolve. In college soccer, the NCAA College 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.960 Cup Championship is tonight. It all comes down to a 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.960 battle of number two seeded ACC in state foes Wake 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:43.200 Forest and UNC at seven pm Eastern on ESPNU and 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.200 streaming on ESPN Plus. This is wake Forest's first National 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.000 Championship match ever. In just their second College Cup appearance ever, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.640 the Demon Deacons will try to cap off a historic 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.919 regular season. They became the first team in NCAA history 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.160 to beat the top two teams in the country back 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.480 to back with wins over Uva and Stanford. It was 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.440 a one nil win over the cardinal in the semi 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.359 finals on Friday that punched Wake's ticket to the championship. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.440 North Carolina, however, is no stranger to this stage. This 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.440 will be the Tar Hills twenty eighth national Championship match. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.079 The program maintains the record across all D one sports 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.760 for the most national titles, with twenty two in total, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.320 but they haven't won one since twenty twelve. In College 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.640 Hoops News, we got a sneak peek at Star LSU 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.840 guard Flage Johnson's Player Edition. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:31.720 Sneaker over the weekend. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.280 Johnson, who has an nil deal with Puma, debuted the 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.920 shoe on her video podcast Best of Both Worlds with 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.320 Flage and gave away a pair to one of her 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.480 biggest fans. We'll link to that video in the show notes. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.400 It was such a sweet interaction and the shoe looks 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.960 super dope if I do say so myself. The design 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.640 includes her number four in a camouflage pattern in honor 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.040 of her late father, the Rapper camouflage. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:56.240 It also has her. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.920 Big four celebration on the tongue and two quotes from 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.640 her mom, raised the Beast and we worked on this. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.360 To top it off, There's also a hand written note 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:06.480 on the inside of the shoe. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.320 It's a tribute to her brothers. 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.240 In college vibes, We're entering the third round of the 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.960 NCAA Tournament, and of course we couldn't get here without 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.560 some upsets. This weekend had a few, including number seven 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.760 seeded Missouri's three to one win over number two seed SMU, 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.159 Number six Florida's three to two victory over number three Kansas, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.520 and six seeded Texas A and M's three to one 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.640 win over number three seed Arizona State. Round three of 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.880 the tournament begins on Thursday. In Pro Women's Hockey League news, 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.480 the PWHL is in the game EA Sports NHL twenty 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:40.400 five video game. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.800 That is. Season two of the game includes a holiday. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.520 Update that makes all six p WHL teams selectable in 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.320 a few of its different modes, and in Season mode, 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.520 players can even compete for the Walter Cup. This is 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.799 a result of the PWHL's multi year partnership with EA, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.920 otherwise known as Electronic Arts Incorporated, forged back in November. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.120 We'll link to visuals of the PWHL and NHL twenty 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.040 five in our show notes and to where you can 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.160 purchase it for yourself or the gamer you love. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:12.359 This holiday season. Thanks Misha, We got to take a break. 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:13.080 When we come back. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.000 We talked the business Case for Women's Sports, with Goals 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.160 founder Caroline Fitzgerald. 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:22.920 Joining us now. 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.200 She's the CEO and founder of Goals Sports, a marketing 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.640 and sponsorship consultancy focused on growing women's sports. She's the 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.200 host of the Business Case for Women's Sports podcast and 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.320 a contributing writer at Forbes dot com. Recently named a 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.640 Sports Business Journal twenty twenty four power player in Women's Sports. 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:40.680 She's got a BA from Penn State and a master's 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:41.360 from NYU. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:42.840 She's a former hoops coach, an. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.799 Avid runner, and the Rad Neon sign in her office 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.279 inspired the Rad good Game sign I've got behind me. 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.640 It's Caroline Fitzgerald. What's out? Caroline? 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.960 Hi, Sarah, thank you for having me and your neon 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:54.640 looks amazing. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:55.159 Thank you. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:56.880 Nothing but good things to say about it. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.919 Uh, love it, love it. I want to start with 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.120 your sports background. Tell us all about the sports you 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:01.840 played growing up. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.919 Yeah, Sarah, So, I think, like a lot of people 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.120 that a lot of women in women's sports and a 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.679 lot of women that grew up playing sports. I didn't 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.080 have a ton of opportunity growing up to play the 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.600 sports I loved on teams with all other girls. So 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.159 my first team sporting experience was I was the only 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.080 girl on an all boys baseball team. And it's funny 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.240 now that I share this story, I hear so many 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.640 other women saying, like, that's how that happened to me too, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.320 And they all have their own story of this. But 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.520 I'll just give you my quick kind of I call 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.840 this my villain origin story, if you will, of how 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.640 I got into this line of work. It happened at 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.600 the age of seven. Again, I was the only girl 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:41.680 on an all boys baseball team. It was me and 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.040 my brother Tanner were just signed up to play on 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.120 the boys team in the neighborhood. And I remember getting 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.960 there on our first day and almost immediately all the 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.800 boys on the other team started teasing us and taunting us, 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.839 saying things like girls can't play baseball. We're gonna crush 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:57.839 this team. They have a girl playing in the infield, 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.839 and we're gonna get them. And I was determined to 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.599 prove those boys wrong. So we took the field in 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.840 the first inning and I couldn't have scripted this better. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.159 Sarah every the first three boys on the other team 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.000 all hit ground balls right to me, and I threw 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.720 them all out on grounders, and I walked off the 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.600 field at the age of seven, which such confidence and swagger, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.680 just with this feeling like never again was anybody going 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.280 to tell me that I couldn't do something, especially in sports, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.360 because I was a girl and I was just hooked 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.160 from there. I loved sports, played every single sport beyond baseball. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.080 Basketball ended up becoming my main sport. I still run, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:36.960 like you mentioned, to this day. I spent a lot 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.520 of time working in the running industry as well, but 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.560 basketball has always been the core sport. I still play 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.280 basketball every Wednesday night and in all women's league here 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.840 fun where I'm based, and it's just a lot of fun. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.920 Sports have been with me for a long time and 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:52.720 hoped to keep playing as long as possible. 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.200 So you worked in sports and a number of capacities 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.320 before you decided to launch your own shop. So what 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.920 was the pivot point or the moment that you recognized 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:03.240 that there was a need for goals? 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.280 Yeah, it was pretty clear. It was kind of an 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.720 AHA moment. During the twenty twenty WNBA Wubble season and 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.960 seeing what the women of the WNBA did that season 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.640 for racial and social justice while they were also playing 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:23.000 the best basketball in the world under some pretty tough 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.240 conditions during the global pandemic, being the second pro sports 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.720 league to return to play during you know, those really 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.040 unprecedented times, and I was really just blown away what 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.200 those women were doing, like I said, both on and 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.280 off the court. And you know, I think, like a 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.960 lot of people during the global pandemic, I certainly am 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.800 very privileged and was able to work from home and 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.560 keep my full time job working for the Dick Sporting 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.920 Goods Pittsburgh Marathon at the time. But I just did 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.079 some soul searching, if you will. And I've always in 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.480 my life knew that my north star was to do 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.559 something professionally at the intersection of sports and business and feminism. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.719 And when I graduated from college in twenty twelve, there 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.720 wasn't a super clear career path of what that could 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.320 look like. So I put myself on a path to 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.880 become a marketer and sell sponsorship sales and work in 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.960 sports if I could, and you know, all of my 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:20.840 experiences just kind of came together, and when I had 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.720 that aha moment, just being blown away by the twenty 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.520 WNBA Leble season. You know, I just decided kind of 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.160 to go all in. It didn't happen quite like that. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:37.000 The whole concept and business model of goals evolved. But 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:38.680 the first thing that I decided to go all in 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.920 on was creating a podcast, The Business Case for Women's Sports. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.640 And it really was sparked from this curiosity. I saw 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.599 everything happening with the WNBA, and I really wanted to 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.640 learn more about it. I wanted to listen to a 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.960 podcast that talked about the state of the women's sports 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.640 industry and kind of break down why the gender gaps 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.199 in's professional sports are. So I don't need to tell 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.240 you all these stats, Sarah probably don't need to tell 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.120 your listeners, but things like four percent of media coverage 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.920 at the time, one percent of sponsorship dollars. Don't get 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.160 me started on the pay gaps and women's sports and 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.120 men's sports. So, you know, I wanted to understand, like, what, 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.479 why are we not treating women's sports like a business 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.160 like this? Look at this business of men's sports. What 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.240 is going on that we're not that we're ignoring women 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.360 and we're not treating this like the industry that it 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.760 is so anyway, that's that's kind of how Goals came 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:33.480 to be. That's how I got into this. But it 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.480 really did that I think, like a lot of people, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.800 I mean Power of a Dream watch the documentary, A 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.920 lot of people were inspired by that season. But that 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:42.320 was really a big catalyst for me. 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.560 Yeah, I mean, I think, first of all, there was 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.400 so much that was thought provoking and inspiring that came 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:52.160 out of that twenty twenty summer, that initial global pandemic shutdown. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.679 That is, there's clear lines there of watching and experiencing 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.120 for the first time some of the racial reckonings, some 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.160 of the ways that some of these folks had to 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.080 balance their job, and then standing for something in a 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:05.559 moment when we were all shut down and. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:06.520 We had all eyes on them. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.440 But I think there's also something we need to be 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.679 thoughtful about, which is that people had time, and during 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.800 that time, so many people came up with their life's passion, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.360 their life's work made a big change. We are such 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.880 a hustle culture that unless we are literally forced to 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:21.679 stay in our homes, we will not look at all 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.560 of the research and all of the language that tells 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.400 us shutting it down, slowing down giving ourselves time to 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.920 be creative and thoughtful will actually be effective for us. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.439 So every time I get another guest done, that's as well. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.679 It was the summer of twenty twenty, and that's when 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:34.960 they came up with this big thing. I'm like, oh, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:36.719 I gotta be reminded of that because I'm so bad 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:37.400 at slowing down. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:39.680 Okay, So tell me more about the company. 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.240 How you work on behalf of women's sports teams, how 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.800 you sort of organize to use these value aligned corporate 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.000 sponsors to meet them with their matches. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.440 Yeah, totally. So at the core of what we do 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.080 is we try to demonstrate the social and economic value 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.200 that comes along with investing in women's sports. So we 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.959 do that mostly in two big buckets. Soh Like I said, 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.200 goals started as a podcast. Truly, I never podcasted before, 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.680 but I wanted to listen to a podcast about the 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.240 business side of women's sports that made the business case 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.720 for why we need more money into women's sports. So 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.240 I created the podcast. Maybe it was a little self serving, 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.960 but I also thought the industry could benefit from hearing 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.960 some of those conversations. So we are a media company 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.840 at our core. So the podcast and you know. I'm 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.280 a trained marketer, so I knew I just couldn't create 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.959 a podcast without having some marketing channels to market the podcast. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.400 Otherwise it would only be my mother and my father 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.319 and my siblings listening to it. So created the brand 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.439 goals to ultimately house the podcast and create content that 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.679 would align with those conversations that we were going to 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.960 have on the air again around making the economic and 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.720 social case for investing in women's sports. So when you 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.880 come to our channels, you're going to find the data, 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.920 the facts, the stats, the anecdotal stories, all the evidence 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.720 that you need to make the business case either internally 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.400 at company for investing in women's sports, or if you're 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.040 just a person that goes through their daily life and 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.440 finds themselves having to defend women's sports to people in 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.760 their lives. We're going to give you the data to 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.400 arm you to tell people that actually, everybody does watch 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.880 women's sports and a lot of people care about women's sports. 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:19.800 So that's what you're gonna get from us on the 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.240 media side. The other side of our work is consulting work. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.120 So for the last three years, we've had a consulting 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.319 practice that's rooted in brand partnerships, so trying to link 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.439 professional women's sports teams and leagues with values aligned brand 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.400 partners that sponsor them and can derive that value from 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.400 associating with women athletes and women's sports properties. And then 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.520 we also do a variety of growth growth strategy work, 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:48.600 so basically working with brands, teams, leagues, media networks that 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.200 want to get into the business of women's sports and 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.679 need some help figuring out how to optimize those investments 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.760 and how they should show up in the women's sports space. So, 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.280 you know, our business certainly has evolved since the women's 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.720 sports industry evolves pretty much every single week. As we're growing, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.280 we're very much in startup mode. We know how startup 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.120 culture and action plans shift all the time. I see 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.200 the women's sports industry still very much in startup mode. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.360 So we're a startup operating within a startup, So we 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.920 shift as well to meet the needs of the industry. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:21.720 But at the end of the day, we're really here 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.320 to serve the industry. We want to help bring more 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.440 money into women's sports and help people go out and 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.800 get more money into their respective parts of women's sports. 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.560 It's so necessary because to your point, when you first 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.520 looked at the landscape and thought, why are we not 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.960 treating this like a business. This is so strange, And 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.320 I think the comparison to men's sports always created this 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.760 wrong idea that it was a charity, where As if 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.400 it had been in any other business, any other industry, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.320 making the money that it did, showing the potential that 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.760 it did, we would be clamoring to get involved. 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:54.920 But because of the giant gap. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.280 Between men's and women's we saw it as this little 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.600 thing instead of this really powerful thing. And part of 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.480 that also so was when brands would get involved, they 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.520 would not operate in the way that they would in 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.800 any other space. They didn't do the research, They copypasted 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.640 from the men with completely different demographics, completely different market research, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.200 and then they said it didn't work. 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:14.200 So it must be the product. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.560 So frustrating, right, So that's why what you do is 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.000 just so important. You keep saying, Wei, is there a 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.040 WI now at goals or just you still yeah? 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.360 We I use the Royal WI a lot. How our 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.360 business model is set up so I'm the only full 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.800 time person, but I tap into a number of consultants 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:33.840 on various projects all the time. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.440 So there is a Wei, but I am still the 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.800 only the Royal weed and sometimes the Royal Wii. Yeah, 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.840 exactly what was that economic opportunity that you saw and 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.760 you thought most others weren't seeing or taking advantage of, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.720 especially when it comes to sort of just a little 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:50.920 bit of resource and investment. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.960 I mean, yeah, for me. You know, at the time, 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.880 I was working in a full time job that candidly 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.760 I absolutely loved. I was the senior vice president of 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.360 Sponsorships at the Dick Sporting Gets, Pittsburgh Marathon and P 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.640 three r were essentially they are the organization that put 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.440 on every major road running race that happens in the 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.560 greater Pittsburgh area. And I loved that job. I was 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.240 thriving in that job. I was doing really well. But 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.960 I starting to look at the women's sports industry. I 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.440 just saw this absolute plethora of white space, and people 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:35.080 were quite frankly, just ignoring all the untapped potential of 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.720 an entire industry. I think because of misogyny and you know, 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:43.520 some really antiquated beliefs about the capabilities of women athletes 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.920 both on and off their respective field of play. And 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.720 I thought, oh my gosh, I need to create a 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.160 business to serve this industry right now, because all of 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.320 the data, all of the numbers, everything says that this 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.720 is just going to keep growing and everything happening, you know, 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.920 just with women outside to sports. During twenty twenty, in 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.880 the pandemic, social justice and especially gender equity. Racial justice, 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.760 social justice and gender equity really came into the global 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.639 conversation in a way that we hadn't seen it in 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:18.360 a few years. And just the way women have been 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.560 using the power of social media and just you know, 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:26.160 coming in and saying we are here and we demand 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.679 to have equal rights and access and opportunities. It just 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.720 only made sense to me, as a feminist scholar and 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.760 you know, somebody who was looking at what was going 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.280 on in the sports industry, that women's sports would naturally 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.840 continue to grow. So I just thought, this is the 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.679 time I bet big on women's sports when I started 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.719 this business four years ago, and I'm glad I did. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.040 At the time, a lot of people see me as 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.959 an early adopter of the women's sports industry, which is 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.800 so funny to think about because I see early adopters 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.880 of women's sports as people like Billy Jean. 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:01.720 Yeah, that was fifty years ago. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.760 What are we talking about, like women's sports are not 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:04.320 a new guy. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.879 There was this big pivot point for four or five 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.080 years ago, and you're a part of that. You know. I, 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.240 by virtue of the PSA that I did more than 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.360 me talking about the online treatment of women in sports, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.920 I've ended up having to speak on the topic of 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.560 engagement on social media for years and years, and it's 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.640 something I'm happy to talk about. And also because I'm 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.000 sort of was previously known for my troll clapbacks, I 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:28.680 don't really do it as much anymore because I don't 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.399 want to incentivize or add value and actual money in 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.639 the pockets of said trolls anymore, the way that Twitter 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:36.520 is now set up. But one of the things that 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:41.119 really got me thinking about was how social media removed 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.840 gatekeepers and so, as terrible as it is, what we 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.080 often had was the same decision makers as editors of papers, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.440 program directors at television and radio stations, predominantly being middle 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.840 aged white men, deciding for people what they should be 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.080 interested in. And if you brought them a story idea, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.760 or if you wanted to talk about something on a 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.119 radio show, you first had to get through those people 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.360 who were deciding what they thought mattered, and with social media, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.640 when those gatekeepers were removed, there were content creators, individuals 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.600 who said, this is something I care about, I'm going 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.080 to make it and then watch the people flock to it. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.240 And the same goes for what you just said about 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.560 athletes and brands and leagues saying we can create something 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.159 here that I don't have to buy TV right space 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.919 for the way that you know the digital marketplaces, you 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.600 just make something and put it there, and it lives 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:27.600 there whether anyone. 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:28.040 Shows up or not. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:29.960 And what we saw was so many people showed up 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.560 and so as terrible as the Internet is and as 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.960 much as I am trying to spend less time on it, 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.520