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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Time for a vault episode. This one originally published on

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Speaker 1: April ninth, and it's the second part of our Bone

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Speaker 1: Palace series. So we hope you enjoy. Welcome to Stook

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Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is

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Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with

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Speaker 1: part two of our episodes the Bone Palace, where the

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Speaker 1: humans are the bone Lords, the bones are their houses,

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Speaker 1: and we all build with bones. That's right. Last episode

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Speaker 1: we spoke quite a bit about the use of mammoth

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Speaker 1: bones by early people's and the harsh reality of the

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Speaker 1: Ice Age. Yeah, that's right. We we we talked about the

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Speaker 1: the bone circles of the Russian plane from the from

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Speaker 1: the last glacial maximum, where a Stone Age hunter gatherers

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Speaker 1: would take mammoth bones from either scavenged or or from

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Speaker 1: memoths that they had killed in hunting, and they would

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Speaker 1: build these strange circular walls out of them. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: it's not exactly known what all of these structures were

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Speaker 1: for We talked about a recently discovered one that that

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Speaker 1: yielded some especially intriguing results. We talked about what the

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Speaker 1: function of these buildings could have been. Was it a dwelling?

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Speaker 1: Was that a storehouse for food? To have some kind

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Speaker 1: of symbolic or religious significance? Uh? And today we wanted

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Speaker 1: to continue on that theme. We wanted to build with bones.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So it's easy, of course to just wallow

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Speaker 1: and the necromantic, Gothic and death metal glory of imagine

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Speaker 1: palaces built out of bone, and and certainly we we

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Speaker 1: enjoy doing that as well. Uh, paluses of bone, thrones

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Speaker 1: of bone, bone forged weapons that incur one D six

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Speaker 1: chronic damage on a critical hit, that sort of thing

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Speaker 1: orcus name be praised. But to use or the lord

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Speaker 1: of bones old rattle shirt from Game of Thrones, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll come back to rattle shirt in a bit. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: to use bones as tools and raw materials, I mean, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: it's just good sense. So first, let's consider why so

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Speaker 1: for starters to state the obvious bones do decay, They

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Speaker 1: just decay at a much slower rate than soft tissue.

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Speaker 1: It might take a decade and say a rainforest environment,

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Speaker 1: or thousands of years in a dry environment, But decomposition

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Speaker 1: still eventually occurs, because we have to remember that fossils

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Speaker 1: are of course no longer proper bones, but they have

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Speaker 1: undergone mineralization. Yeah, there are a couple of methods by

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Speaker 1: which fossils are formed, but when you're looking at like

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Speaker 1: dinosaur fossils, those are not the bones of the dinosaurs.

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Speaker 1: They are ways that other minerals have have taken the

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Speaker 1: shape of the original bones. Right, But given our short lives,

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Speaker 1: it's easy to sort of fall into the loose idea

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Speaker 1: that bones last and flesh does not, and any way

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Speaker 1: you shake it. For us vertebrates, our bones do tend

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Speaker 1: to outlive us. The fledge rots away, but the bones remain,

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Speaker 1: And then what are you going to do with them? Now,

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Speaker 1: obviously there's a great deal of room here for human complexity.

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Speaker 1: We reflesh the bones with memory, magical thinking, and symbolism.

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Speaker 1: The skull becomes a species wide symbol for impermanence in

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Speaker 1: the inexorable pull of the grave. But in congress with

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Speaker 1: this for humans, and separate entirely from it from any organisms,

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Speaker 1: bones are simply durable materials of varying and novel size

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Speaker 1: that can lend themselves very well to various uses. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I thought we might begin by just considering just a

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Speaker 1: few quick examples from the animal world. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: do it. So our necromancers are fictional necromancers. From the

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Speaker 1: top of the first episode, they love a good bone pile.

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Speaker 1: Any necromancer is going to love a good bone pile.

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Speaker 1: And while other animals display complex emotions around death as well,

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Speaker 1: burial of the dead is generally the domain of humans

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Speaker 1: and Neanderthals. But there are other ways to amass a

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Speaker 1: collection of bones, and that is via predation. So think

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Speaker 1: of the Killer Rabbit and Monty Python and the Holy

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Speaker 1: Grail right right, yeah, look at the bones? Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Tim the enchanterer the bones or does somebody say bones shmones?

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Speaker 1: I think do they? I don't remember that part. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: this is a deadly killer organism and as such is

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Speaker 1: places just littered with with their remains. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: uh the way in which predators are often predators and

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Speaker 1: scavengers can become what's known in the fossil record as

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Speaker 1: an accumulating agent that that sort of gathers stuff together

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Speaker 1: into a single site, right, and then this accumulation is

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Speaker 1: often referred to as a nidden. So I want to

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Speaker 1: return us to a place that we've gone to many

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Speaker 1: times in the podcast, and that is the world of

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Speaker 1: the octopus or the octopus midden is a great example

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Speaker 1: of this, consisting of the remains of various creatures that

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Speaker 1: the octopus has preyed upon. And so this includes generally

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Speaker 1: it's you we're talking about shells, but also it can

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Speaker 1: include bones. Now, a midden like this need only be

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Speaker 1: the accumulated bones of one's prey, but it can be more. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Sydney octopus, for example, Octopus uh tetricus. According to

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Speaker 1: a two thousand fourteen paper from David Shell and Peter

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Speaker 1: Godfrey Smith UH. Peter Godfrey Smith is the author as

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Speaker 1: well of Other Minds, The Octopus, the Sea and the

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Speaker 1: Deep Origins of Consciousness. They point out that this particular

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Speaker 1: octopus may be engaging in a form of ecosystem engineering

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Speaker 1: via their middens. Basically, they occur in large numbers on

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Speaker 1: a shell bed of their prey. Shell bed that has

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Speaker 1: become ends up becoming home to a community of invertebrate

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Speaker 1: grazers and scavengers, while all also creating additional shelter possibilities

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Speaker 1: for the occupods themselves. However, the downside seems to be

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Speaker 1: that the increased fish population can then bring in sharks

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Speaker 1: and make it a bit busier and more dangerous than

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Speaker 1: it would normally be for these octopuses. So, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting example, like it kind of getting into this

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Speaker 1: area of perhaps like accidental tinkering with the environment, accidental

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Speaker 1: ecosystem engineering that becomes then becomes part of this uh,

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Speaker 1: this creature's habit, part of its life cycle. But then

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Speaker 1: there's an unbalancing that occurs as well. So this makes

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Speaker 1: me think, so if the octopus is um, let me

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Speaker 1: know if I'm understanding this wrong. Is the idea maybe

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Speaker 1: that the octopus is using instinctually using this pile of

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Speaker 1: shells from its prey to attract other animals to the site,

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Speaker 1: which can then themselves become prey. Yeah, I believe so,

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Speaker 1: though again it comes with certain complications, maybe also attracting predators.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. The octopus here that we're talking about

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Speaker 1: is is typically solitary. But the side they observed here

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Speaker 1: was just one of a couple of examples that scientists

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Speaker 1: have come across of where we've seen octopods living in

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Speaker 1: high density populations with complex social behaviors. Trash makes friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the you know, the the impact of the middens here,

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Speaker 1: I think drives home how the use of bone or

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Speaker 1: shell material can sort of emerge out of a creature's lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: You know, like by eating a lot of creatures and

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Speaker 1: then leaving their bones, you begin to create artificial environments

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Speaker 1: that are composed of bones, and that opens and that

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Speaker 1: changes the ecosystem, at least in pockets. Now, these are,

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Speaker 1: of course, uh, extant octopods, But what about extinct dctopods. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot we don't know about extinct octopods because

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Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about creatures composed uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: mostly soft tissue, and there they are a rarity in

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Speaker 1: the fossil record. But there's there's one potential example, certainly

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Speaker 1: a controversial hypothesis that I've brought up on the show

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Speaker 1: before and I can't help but bring it up again here.

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Speaker 1: It's a by paleontologist Mark mcminimon, and he and his

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Speaker 1: co authors proposed in twleven that a peculiar arrangement of

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Speaker 1: etheosaur bones from the Triassic period were arranged in a

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Speaker 1: linear pattern by a presumed giant octopus that was playing

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Speaker 1: with its food, perhaps even creating some manner of And

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Speaker 1: this is where he gets really kind of trippy and

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Speaker 1: more controversial, the idea that perhaps this creature was not

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Speaker 1: only arranging the bones of its prey in a novel pattern,

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Speaker 1: but was engaging in some sort of self portrait. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I love this idea, but it is we should

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Speaker 1: definitely acknowledge like at least two layers of pure speculation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is not not accepted by the scientific

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Speaker 1: community in any brought way at all. So the first

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Speaker 1: layer of speculation is just the idea that the octopus

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Speaker 1: was arranging the bones like this, which that doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: implausible to me, but still it's speculative. We don't know

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Speaker 1: that's what happened. The second level is the intention behind

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Speaker 1: the arrangement, the idea that the octopus was creating a

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Speaker 1: portrait of its own tentacle, right or not tentacle arm? Sorry, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you know there's a there's no way to for

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Speaker 1: us to know that it is pure speculation. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and again, even the the idea of this being an

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Speaker 1: actual species. It's just we have a presume the researchers

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Speaker 1: are presuming that there is an octopus here that did this,

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Speaker 1: because there is again no no fossil evidence of its

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Speaker 1: of it's of the soft tissue that would be associated

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Speaker 1: with this creature that is sometimes informally referred to as

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Speaker 1: a crack in a Triassic kracking. Now, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: I would not say at all that it would be

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Speaker 1: implausible for an octopus to mess around with the bones

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Speaker 1: of its prey animals and put them in strange arrangements,

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Speaker 1: because octopus is absolutely modern. Octopuses play, They play with

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Speaker 1: objects all the time. They manipulate objects in ways that

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Speaker 1: have no obvious, uh practical advantage. You know, they're not

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Speaker 1: just like using objects as tools or something. They apparently

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Speaker 1: engage in purely recreational object manipulation. Right, And then one

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Speaker 1: can easily imagine that you have this, you have this

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Speaker 1: play that's occurring with the bones. This you know, steady

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Speaker 1: manipulation of the bones, and it's the thing that could

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Speaker 1: in theory, lead to more complex uses of bones later on,

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Speaker 1: the use of bones as tools. Now, I don't think

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Speaker 1: we've see anything occurring in nature with octopods with bones

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Speaker 1: like this, But we do have examples of octopods seeming

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Speaker 1: to engage in tool you say, with with coconuts or shells, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: using them basically is like a shield for their bodies. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: other animals certainly work with bones and shells as well.

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Speaker 1: Bones factor into the nesting behaviors of certain birds and

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Speaker 1: pack rats. Bower birds have been no known to use

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Speaker 1: bones in the creation of their mating bowers. But when

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Speaker 1: you think of bones as tools or bones as materials,

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Speaker 1: you can't help but think of hominids and their two

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Speaker 1: and the two use of early humans in particular, perhaps

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Speaker 1: in part due to that stunning sequence uh that we've

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Speaker 1: all seen from two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, right,

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Speaker 1: in which a human ancestor discovers that the bone of

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Speaker 1: a taper might be used as a weapon, not stonework,

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Speaker 1: but bone work. Now. I love this scene. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about it on the show before, But this scene is

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Speaker 1: actually a reference to the nineteen forty nine uh Osteodonto

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Speaker 1: choratic culture hypothesis or O d K hypothesis by Professor

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Speaker 1: Raymond Dart, the man who also identified the tongue child

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Speaker 1: fossil in nineteen two UM What does that mean? The

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Speaker 1: O d K hypothesis is basically bone tooth horn culture

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Speaker 1: OSTEO danto choratic culture, and the idea here is that

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Speaker 1: austro Lepithecus Africanists would have engaged in a carnivorous and

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Speaker 1: sometimes cannibalistic lifestyle augmented by bone and horn tools that

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Speaker 1: they used to hunt other animals and each other. Dart

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Speaker 1: based this on skeletal part representation patterns at fossil sites,

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Speaker 1: presenting evidence that they were possibly using bones as tools

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Speaker 1: and weapons. Essentially, it's a model for the transition from

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Speaker 1: ape to human via bone assisted predation, depending on tools

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Speaker 1: made from the bones of their own kills and or

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Speaker 1: the kills of other predators that they have scavenged. Now,

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Speaker 1: this hypothesis has met with a generally skeptical audience and

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Speaker 1: it's and it had several notable detractors. Now it is

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Speaker 1: generally considered that O. D K culture did not exist

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Speaker 1: as Dart envisioned it, and that the bones he observed

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Speaker 1: were simply due to the natural breakup of skeletons, predator preferences,

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Speaker 1: and environmental damage to skeletal remains. The criticism of the

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Speaker 1: hyena is is often brought up as a possible scavenger

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Speaker 1: responsible for the bone. Didn'ts that Dart interpreted as an

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Speaker 1: example of this O d K culture. All right, so

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Speaker 1: darts picture of this extinct human relative making this tool

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Speaker 1: use transition through the use of bones for wide scale

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Speaker 1: or large scale predation. That's probably not accurate, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that humans never used bones as tools, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I want to drive home that od K culture

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Speaker 1: hypothesis was not it was this was not like a

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Speaker 1: crazy hypothesis, and it's you know, it's it's it's very

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Speaker 1: very sensible. But yeah, it just doesn't seem like it's

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Speaker 1: really um held up over time. But still at the

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Speaker 1: same time, the use of bone tools is an important

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Speaker 1: part of of human tool use. There's evidence of early

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Speaker 1: humans using bone tools one point five million years ago

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Speaker 1: and what is now South Africa, and these would have

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Speaker 1: been used, uh we believe to dig in termine mounds.

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Speaker 1: Included a photo here for you to look at them. Know,

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Speaker 1: they the kind of thing where you know, if you

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Speaker 1: didn't know what you were looking at, you might not

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Speaker 1: get that these were tools. But but these were specialized tools.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a huge problem in archaeology actually.

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Speaker 1: I mean by the time we as just lay consumers

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Speaker 1: of artifacts come to these artifacts, they've already been interpreted

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Speaker 1: as tools. But when you're just like looking at sediments

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Speaker 1: in the ground and fragments of things, it's often hard

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Speaker 1: to tell what is a tool and what is not. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Another example, I came across bone knives from North Africa

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Speaker 1: dating back ninety thousand years connected with Middlestone Age terry

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Speaker 1: and culture, and these would have been made from rib bones. Wait,

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Speaker 1: rib bones of what of humans or of something else?

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Speaker 1: I believe animal, But I'm not sure they really were

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Speaker 1: able to figure out exactly what sort of animal. Now.

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Speaker 1: According to a two thousand fifteen study from the University

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Speaker 1: of Montreal, Neanderthals of the Middle Paleolithic might have used

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Speaker 1: made use of multi purpose bone tools. These were found

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Speaker 1: at grot Dubaison grotd Bissan at r C Circure in Burgundy, France,

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Speaker 1: and they would have been used alongside stone tools. So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not this idea of like bone or stone,

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Speaker 1: but like bone and stone. And I think that makes sense,

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Speaker 1: especially based in the UH the example that we uh

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Speaker 1: we we focused on for the first episode in this

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Speaker 1: pair of episodes about bone technology. Yeah. Now, I can

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Speaker 1: think about some ways in which stone I think would

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Speaker 1: be superior to bone it for certain types of tool uses.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things is that, uh it seems

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Speaker 1: there are certain types of stones that flake away in

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Speaker 1: a kind of shearing pattern, which along with the technique

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Speaker 1: of napping, which is where you strike stones together to

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Speaker 1: try to shear off part of a target stone to

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Speaker 1: make a sharp edge on it. That that works with stones,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't really work with bones, at least as

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Speaker 1: far as I can imagine. But that doesn't mean bones

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Speaker 1: would be useless. It would just mean that you couldn't

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Speaker 1: use them really to create a knife edge as effectively

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Speaker 1: as you can with napping of certain types of rock. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I could be wrong about that, does it? Does

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Speaker 1: that seem right to you? Yeah? I think so? Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So again, this would have been a multi purpose bone

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Speaker 1: tool that the Neanderthals would have used here. Uh so,

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Speaker 1: the Reacher's researchers point out that, first of all, naturally

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Speaker 1: the prime purpose of hunting an animal was to obtain

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Speaker 1: meat and also hide, but the bones were very useful

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Speaker 1: as well. Uh So, for example, one of the bone

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Speaker 1: tools found here, that the pivotal multi tool that they're

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Speaker 1: talking about here, was made from the left femur of

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Speaker 1: an adult reindeer, and it was seemingly used for a

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Speaker 1: few different purposes. First of all, carved sharpening of cutting

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Speaker 1: edges of stone tools, So you would have used bone

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Speaker 1: tools to help refine and make your stone tools. That

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Uh. This would have also been probably used

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Speaker 1: as a scraper and quote evidence of meat butchering and

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Speaker 1: bone fracturing to extract marrow or evidence on the tool.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, this would have been a very useful device.

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Speaker 1: And again I included a picture for you to see, Joe.

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Speaker 1: And again it's one of these things where you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you if you're not, you didn't know

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Speaker 1: what you're looking at. If you're not you know paleontologists, uh,

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Speaker 1: you you might not get that what you're looking at

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Speaker 1: is a multi tool. Are staring at it here for

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Speaker 1: the longest time trying to figure out what it looks like.

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Speaker 1: I realized if you turn it sideways, it looks like

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Speaker 1: an iguana head. So it does kind of looks like

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Speaker 1: a horner ear on it. Yeah, but that that spike

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Speaker 1: edge there. Yeah. Now, another interesting thing about this particular

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Speaker 1: study is that prehistoric experts were previously reluctant to attribute

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Speaker 1: bone work tools to Neanderthals, but such fines as this

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Speaker 1: from the very late nineteen nineties and then into the

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Speaker 1: twenty first century changed that. I also want to point

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Speaker 1: out that the Eureka Alert release on this particular study

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Speaker 1: bears the amusing title quote, you have a dab a

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Speaker 1: dough stone age man wasn't necessarily more advanced than the Neandertals.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Ten points So that's so good. Wait wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: should they have gone with the abadebba? Don't because he

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Speaker 1: was not necessarily more advanced. I don't know if that

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Speaker 1: quite makes sense. Uh, that one was probably on the table.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing. I'm just guessing. And then someone's like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: what if we work Homer into this as well? Fred

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Speaker 1: Flintstone and Homer in one single uh science press release title.

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Speaker 1: This is gonna be great. Alright, we're gonna take a

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Speaker 1: quick break, but when we come back, we are going

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Speaker 1: to discuss more about bone tools and bone technology. Thank alright,

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Speaker 1: we're back. So bone technology stands alongside stone technology is

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Speaker 1: as a key marker of technological and cognitive development, even

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Speaker 1: if we're not putting all of our eggs in the

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Speaker 1: O d K basket, so you won't really find it

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Speaker 1: popping up in extent non human animals. But how about

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Speaker 1: how about this You mentioned old rattle shirt earlier, Um,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned bone armor and that I brings to buy

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Speaker 1: not only old rattle shirt, but it makes me think

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Speaker 1: of the Kurgan from Highlander. Remember that bone armor that

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Speaker 1: he wears or it's like bone augmented to armor, don't

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Speaker 1: do the necromongers in in in Chronicles of Riddick were

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Speaker 1: bone armor. I don't remember. I mean they certainly have

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Speaker 1: some some dark, gloomy, you know, necromantic aspects to their armor.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember if they actually had any real bone,

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Speaker 1: but but certainly they would have appreciated those who wore

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Speaker 1: pone without a doubt. Another example that's really burned into

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Speaker 1: my mind is the character General Cal from Willow. You

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Speaker 1: saw Willow, Yes, yes, yes, yes, it's been a long time,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, he was the sub villain in that particular movie.

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Speaker 1: And of course he was played by Pat Roach, everyone's

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Speaker 1: favorite former pro wrestler British heavy man. Uh you know,

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Speaker 1: he's alway, he was always fighting. He's he's what he's

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Speaker 1: He's been killed by Indiana Jones, He's been killed by

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Speaker 1: Conan the Barbarian, all the greats. In fact, he as

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Speaker 1: he played the Sorcerer in Conan the Destroyer. Uh if

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Speaker 1: you're really wait a minute, did the Sorcerer and Conan

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Speaker 1: the Destroyer also have bone armor and get like a

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Speaker 1: sword thrown through his head or something? Um? It was

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Speaker 1: the scene with the mirrors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: really a fantastic sequence. I really need to I can't

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Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this. I really need to watch Conan

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Speaker 1: the Destroyer again because it does have some great two

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Speaker 1: scenes there. It has a reputation for being quite bad,

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Speaker 1: but we should revisit anyway. It had a tough act

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Speaker 1: to follow, for sure, but it has some some pretty

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Speaker 1: wonderful magic in it, as I recall, certainly really more overt,

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Speaker 1: you know, fantasy magic than what you find in the

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Speaker 1: first film. Uh. Well, anyway, this is making me wonder. Okay,

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Speaker 1: bone armor real thing? Did anybody ever actually try to

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Speaker 1: wear armor made out of bones? Well? You know, obviously

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Speaker 1: there's some problems with the idea. I mean it would

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Speaker 1: it would be ideal if there was a slightly larger

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Speaker 1: bipedal creature that had bones and bone plates that were

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Speaker 1: just already perfectly made for someone to wear his armor. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure we would hunt it to extinction

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Speaker 1: uh in no time. But I don't know. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that's been that idea has been explored in fantasy.

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Speaker 1: That's where all the squatches went, so they were to

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Speaker 1: extinction for their bones. Uh. Yes, the squatch skull makes

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Speaker 1: such a great helm. Well, in reality, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: there are probably some examples you can come to where

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Speaker 1: people are used utilizing bone ornamentation, but in terms of

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Speaker 1: using bone as like the primary material and construction, I

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Speaker 1: did run across a really cool example. Uh. This is

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Speaker 1: from a three thousand, nine hundred year old suit of

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Speaker 1: bone armor that was unearthed in Omsk, Siberia. And in

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Speaker 1: this example, and I encourage anyone to look up an

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Speaker 1: example of this, you'll find a picture if you just

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Speaker 1: look for bone armor OMPs that's O. M. S. K Uh.

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Speaker 1: In this example, what we have is basically a shirt

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Speaker 1: of plate mail, but with each individual plate carved from

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Speaker 1: animal bone and Uh, you know, it reminds me too

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Speaker 1: of the sort of the ceremonial jade armor that you

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Speaker 1: see used in Chinese culture. Um, where nobody's wearing like

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Speaker 1: just like the big obvious bones of a creature, but

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Speaker 1: you have all of these little plates of bone. They

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00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: are then stitched into this this garment that is worn

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Speaker 1: by the warrior. And this would have been worn, the

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Speaker 1: researchers point out, by a very specialized warrior, a hero

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Speaker 1: if you will, a prince of the universe, if you will, yes, Well,

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Speaker 1: do we know exactly what the pros and cons of

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Speaker 1: this type of armor would have been if it involved bone? Like,

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Speaker 1: are there like how does that compare to standard materials?

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Speaker 1: Do do we know anything about that? About the it's durability?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is something we need to

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Speaker 1: explore and if if for a future like full on

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Speaker 1: look at armor, which is something we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: wanting to do for a while. But I mean, basically,

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Speaker 1: we do see so many different approaches to armor in

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Speaker 1: different cultures depending on available resources. You know, we we've

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Speaker 1: discussed in the past, Uh, the Inca and how Inca

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00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: armor depended so heavily on fiber. You know, and UH

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00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: and it could apparently it was apparently quite effective in

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Speaker 1: their engagements. Uh. Certainly you get into cultures that have

398
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Speaker 1: more access to uh various metal working UH strategies, and

399
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: you see the metal armor. Uh. This seems to to

400
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: make sense though, because you would have a durable material

401
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: that would would augment whatever, you know, kind of like

402
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: hide based armor. You're you're you're you're creating. Uh, but

403
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Speaker 1: it's gonna be it's gonna be lighter than using little

404
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: bits of stone. It's gonna be lighter than weighing yourself

405
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: down with this with an enormous stone garment. Uh. So

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00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: I think that's it's basically it's just gonna come down

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Speaker 1: to material availability. Now you said this was unearthed in

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Speaker 1: Omsk in Siberia. I wonder with the people living in

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Speaker 1: this region have had access to many other types of

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Speaker 1: resources to make armor out of, or would would be

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Speaker 1: closer to like the the Bone House in uh In

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Speaker 1: in the Ice age situation where basically this is what

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Speaker 1: you got. Yeah, I like I said, I feel like

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Speaker 1: resource availability is is one of the key aspects of this.

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Speaker 1: And U this would have been UM. This would have

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Speaker 1: been Bronze age UM technology basically. Uh. The article I

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Speaker 1: was reading about this from the Siberian Times titled Warriors

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Speaker 1: thirty year old suit of are of the bone armor

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Speaker 1: uneartheden OMPs uh from September six, two fourteen. UH. They

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Speaker 1: mentioned that that at the at the time, uh in

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Speaker 1: the individual using this armor and uh and also the

422
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Speaker 1: individuals they would have have battled, you would have found

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Speaker 1: the weapons at the time consisting of bone and stone arrowheads,

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00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: but also bronze knives, spears tipped with bronze and bronze axes,

425
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: and and and they contend that this sort armor would

426
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: have held up reasonably well against the armors of the time,

427
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: and therefore this would have been like a very precious suit.

428
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: This would have been like, this would have been high

429
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: end again, the stuff a true hero would wear, and

430
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: not just for decorative reasons, actually like for functional reasons. Yeah.

431
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: They seem to think that this would have this would

432
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: have been functional. Yeah, alright, well I'm getting some Yeah.

433
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: I mean that the artistic interpretation looks looks rather cool,

434
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: rather stylish. You know, it's not rattle shirt. It's not

435
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: nearly as intimidating in terms of looking like you're just

436
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: covered in bones, but it has trans it has used

437
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: the bone as a raw material for their technology. All Right,

438
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: we need to take a quick break, but we'll be

439
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: right back with more. Thank and we're back. So earlier

440
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: we talked about octopods creating their bone middens and in

441
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: doing so, remaking the local ecosystem. And uh, I haven't

442
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: an example here that that is really interesting that that

443
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: I ran across concerning human and is doing much the

444
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: same way. In two thousands, sixteen, researchers from the University

445
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: of Georgia discussed how native people's in southwest Florida, known

446
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: as the Caloosa, engaged in landscape engineering quote essentially terraforming,

447
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: according to study lead and University of Georgia anthropologist of

448
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: Victor Thompson, Alright, so how would this work? Okay, so,

449
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with fisher gatherer hunter people here. You know,

450
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: they're depending a lot on on gathering up um and

451
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: and and hunting creatures that live in and around the water.

452
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: So what they would have done is they would have

453
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: piled their accumulated shells, all the shells of the creatures

454
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: that they've scavenged and you know for food already. They

455
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: would put these in massive heaps to construct water bound towns,

456
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: essentially artificial islands. Hundreds of millions of shells would have

457
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: ultimately been required to produce these islands. But again it's

458
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: it's very much in keeping with sort of what those

459
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: octopods are doing and and also ties back to what

460
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: we were talking about with the mammoths early on, Like

461
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: you're accumulating these leftovers, these remnants, uh, these these hard

462
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: materials that that are the results of your lifestyle. And

463
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: then you put all that together, that's a lot of

464
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: material You can start doing things with it. You can

465
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: build uh, some sort of a small palace out of them,

466
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: or you can keep them together, you know, add mud

467
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: and other materials and essentially start remaking the landscape that

468
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: you live in. Yeah, letting these in edible animal products

469
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: not just become trash, but become building materials, become tools,

470
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: become a way of shaping your world. Now, in terms

471
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: of other bone structures and human culture, you'll find various

472
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: examples of this as well. Various crips and assuarias come

473
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: to mind. You know, bone houses that at times have

474
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: say walls or structures that are decorated with bones, if

475
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: not made of bones and stuff. To Bow Your Mind

476
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: actually has an older episode about ossuaries that I would

477
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: refer listeners to. This is what I did with Julie

478
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: Douglas several years ago. But one of the more amusing

479
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: and less gloomy examples of the sort of thing that

480
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: I came across is that the fossil bone Cabin in

481
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: Medicine Bow, Wyoming, which you absolutely should look up a

482
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: picture of. There's an Atlas Obscura article about it as well,

483
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: and it is this uh it first, it just looks

484
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: like a rock little house, you know, nothing too gloomy,

485
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: nothing too weird, but it's just standing out in the

486
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere where it's kind of like waste land

487
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: landscape around it. And it has a sign out front

488
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: at least when this picture was taken that says believe

489
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: it or not. And this cabin is is itself only

490
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: about eighty years old, but it's bill using rock that

491
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: contains fossilized dinosaur bone fragments, So essentially it is a

492
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: dinosaur bone house out in the middle of Wyoming. I

493
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: want to be I'm gonna be the Indiana Jones of

494
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: this house. This belongs in a museum Yeah, you know, Joe,

495
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: we don't have any any live shows coming up, but

496
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go and say it. If we could

497
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: book this location store for a for a live show,

498
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: I would do it. We maybe we only have like

499
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: one wyoming listener out there, uh, that could possibly come,

500
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: but it would still be worth it to record in

501
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: the Believe it or not, fossil dinosaur cabin. Wyoming mind

502
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: blowers out there, chime in, let us know you exist,

503
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: tell us contact and stuff to blow your mind dot com.

504
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: If enough of you let us know what, We'll try

505
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: to see if we can do a show from the roof.

506
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: All Right, we're beginning to to reach the end here,

507
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,479
Speaker 1: But Joe, I understand you have one more gnarly bone

508
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: palace denizen to discuss with us here. Well. Yeah, I

509
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: was thinking about other species that practice something like the

510
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: prehistoric bone lords the Russian plane, and I came across

511
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: evidence of a marvelous wasp species that I think would

512
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: have had a real affinity for the mammoth bone houses.

513
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: This animal lives in southeast China and it's known as

514
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: due to a genia O sari um. You can probably

515
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: hear in the the second part of its species name

516
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: osari Um. That's named after the ossuaries right the the

517
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: the human bone houses where where bones are stored or

518
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: sometimes used in construction um. And this is also known

519
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: that this animal is known as now the bone house wasp. Now,

520
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: the use of the word bone there might be a

521
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: little misleading, because while this wasp absolutely does practice corps architecture,

522
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: it's bricks are not the bones of mammals, but the

523
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: crumpled exoskeletons of ants. And I gotta give credit to

524
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: Gwin Pearson, writing for Wired, for one of the best

525
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: article leads I've ever read. So she's writing an article

526
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: about this animal, and she starts with a quote from

527
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: Conan the Barbarian. You know that scene where the general

528
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: asks Conan what is best in life? And Conan says,

529
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: of course, to cross joy to me. See them driven

530
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: before you and hear the lamentations of the women and

531
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: they all laugh. You know, ha ha, that is good.

532
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: But Pearson goes on to say, a newly described wasp

533
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: species would disagree. What is best in life is to

534
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: feed your children living spiders and build a wall around

535
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: your nursery in which you've entombed the bodies of giant ants.

536
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty good point in comparison, because

537
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: it's like, um, the same way that the you know,

538
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: the the general riding out over the step, you know,

539
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: must project strength in order to in his mind protect

540
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: his own clan. This, uh, this female wasp that that

541
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: builds this nest out of dead insects is also doing

542
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: it in a way from a place of love. Yeah. Yeah,

543
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: this is a wonderful organism if memory serves. I did

544
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: a monster blog post about them, uh back when we

545
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: had blogs. I did one comparing the good old days. Yeah,

546
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: I did one comparing this species to the creeper from

547
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: the Jeeper Creepers movie, which is another intitated like builds

548
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: stuff out of dead things. Really, I guess kind of

549
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: a common trope, or at least not an uncommon trope

550
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: in the world of fictional monsters. But here we have

551
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: the real deal that the natural world example. This was

552
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: the only example that I could really find of this

553
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: being done with insects. And maybe there's another one, but

554
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: but I didn't come across it. Uh So, this species

555
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: and its unique nest building strategy was described in the

556
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: paper in Plos one by Michael stab, Michael Ohl, Chaodong

557
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: Jou and Alexandra Maria Klein uh And the paper was

558
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: called a unique nest protection strategy in a new species

559
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: of spider wasps. So the species was found and described

560
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: during a biodiversity survey in the forests of young Z

561
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: Province and uh So. The bone house wasp is a

562
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: pomp a lid, which is a family of spider hunting wasps.

563
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: This also includes the famous tarantula hawk. And there are

564
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of different species of pompa lids, but most

565
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: are pretty similar in their basic survival and reproduction strategy.

566
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: A lot of times the adults on their own would

567
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: seem to be fairly peaceful. A lot of them are

568
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, sort of vegetarian nectar feeders, but when it's

569
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: time to reproduce and provide for the next generation, that's

570
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: when the true horror comes in. So they tend to

571
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: be solitary rather than living in colonies like so many

572
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: other bees and wasps. And the standard predatory reproductive strategy

573
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: is that a female wasp, a female pomp lid, will

574
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: find a spider and then sting the spider, and the

575
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: sting will paralyze it and it will drag the still

576
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: alive but paralyzed spider back to a nearby nest and

577
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: then lay an egg, usually a single egg, on the

578
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: spider's body, often like sort of on the abdomen, and

579
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: then it will seal the spider up in this cask

580
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: of a manteado style live burial, and then the egg

581
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: hatches and the larva begins to eat the spider, slowly

582
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: inside it out as it grows, often saving the most

583
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: vital internal organs For last man, I love wasps um.

584
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah you know, I actually wrote how Wasps work for

585
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works years and years ago, and I remember

586
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: that was one of the features. One of the many

587
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: features about wasps in general that I love is that

588
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: that adult solitary wasps mostly feed on nectar, but then

589
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: they spend most of their time foraging food for their

590
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: carnivorous younglings. Yeah. Well, I mean it makes me think

591
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: like the human analogy would be like an adult an

592
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: adult who is vegan, but they also are like hunting

593
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: animals for their for their babies to like eat while

594
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: they're still alive. Yeah, baby needs meat, Baby needs a

595
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: living meat in the nursery, but the hunt entirely powered

596
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: by blueberry smoothies. Yes. Um, so what makes this bone

597
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: house wasp different from the other pomplids is the strategy

598
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: that it uses to protect the net where its larva

599
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: gets sealed in with its food source. And uh and

600
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: so the basic idea here is that the nest will

601
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: have a vestibular cell or sort of like an outer

602
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: cell area where the adult wasp will pack in the

603
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: dead bodies of ants. And uh So the nests of

604
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: the species the researchers found were less vulnerable to attacks

605
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: than the nests of other similar wasps. And this would

606
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: would seem to suggest that the dead ants play a

607
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: role in repelling predators or parasites from the nest, likely

608
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: through chemical cues smells, Right, so there's something about these

609
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: ants that, you know, even when they're dead, they give

610
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: off this smell like, oh, that's something I don't want

611
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: to mess with, and the predators will go away because

612
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, an ant colony can be a

613
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: formidable adversary. You know. This also reminds me of another

614
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: group of famous cinematic corpse de filers, uh, the chainsaw

615
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: family from Texas Chainsaw mask here, because what do they

616
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: do with the various bones uh, and and fragments that

617
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: they have left over they hang from the trees right

618
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: surrounding the compound. Uh, you know, almost to warn people away. Uh,

619
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, except for, of course, the meddling teenagers that

620
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: are central to the plot. Well, I mean, it makes

621
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: me think back to the to the bone lords, the

622
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: prehistoric peoples of the Russian plane. Obviously, again there is

623
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: no direct evidence whatsoever that the bones that they built

624
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: these rings out of were in any way to repel predators.

625
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: But now I'm just trying to imagine for a second,

626
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: could could play any kind of role like that? Could

627
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: there be some significance we're not imagining where this is.

628
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: Maybe it gives off a stink like a carnivore's den

629
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: or something. And I don't know, pure guess work. I mean,

630
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: I guess any kind of any kind of benefit you'd

631
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: get like that, you'd probably also get get concurrent downsides

632
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: of stinking like meat and attracting carnivores in the process.

633
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: But but you can easily see with this wasp example,

634
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: how like this is the sort of thing that they

635
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: would likely emerge out of just the keeping of a midden,

636
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: you know, like the leftovers of these metals are around

637
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: and or in the nest, and then in some cases

638
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: they can they can come to have a you know,

639
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: a key uh, you know benefit, They can offer a

640
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: key benefit to the nest itself. Okay, So if you

641
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: were going to play the strategy and try to plant

642
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: something around your house to keep people out that that

643
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: worked on a on the basis of smell, what would

644
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: it be? What would repel everything and attract nothing? Oh,

645
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there are plenty of grizzly examples, but um

646
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: but you know, an actual real life example, and this

647
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: is completely ridiculous, but there have been times where I've

648
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: been working on my laptop on my front porch and

649
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: once the mosquitoes are active, I'll kill a mosquito and

650
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: they'll be this weird idea that I should leave the

651
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: corpse of the mosquito out where the others can see

652
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: it as a warning, you know, that they shouldn't mess

653
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: with me because I will kill them. They're not going

654
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: to be fast enough. Um but but of course that's

655
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: just ludicrous on my part. But there's like some sort

656
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: of weird instinct to do that, to make an example

657
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: out of the creature that is that is hunting me. Yeah,

658
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: I would say probably works to the opposite effect. You've

659
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: created a martyr and now they must avenge their falling sister. Yeah,

660
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: there's that. There is that, but in terms of like, actually, yeah,

661
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, hanging skulls outside of my my home.

662
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: I mean around Halloween we all do that, but that

663
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: that actually has the opposite effect that people in Yeah. Well,

664
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, going back to that first episode

665
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: about the about the bone circles, I mean, some of

666
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: the hypotheses offered do seem interesting, but I've still got

667
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: this mystery banging around in my head. I'm not going

668
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: to forget about this. Yeah, it's it's one of those

669
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: that really forces you to to think long and hard

670
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: about you know, who our ancestors were, and you know

671
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: what was important to them in this uh this this

672
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: this time of great trial. All right. So there you

673
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: have it, a second dose of the Bone Palace. More

674
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: examples of bone technology, bone collection, and the remaking of

675
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: our world with the remnants of those that came before.

676
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to check out other

677
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: Grizzly episodes of stuff to blow your mind, you will

678
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: find them wherever you find our podcast and you can

679
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: find us just about anywhere. If you go to stuff

680
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com, that will shoot you

681
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: over to the I Heart Listening for our show and

682
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: you can of course subscribe and listen there as well.

683
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our amazing audio producer Seth

684
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

685
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

686
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, to let us

687
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: know you listen and you listen from Wyoming, or just

688
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: to say hi, you can email us at contact that's

689
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow

690
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,640
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691
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,719
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692
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693
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Speaker 1: favorite shows,