WEBVTT - Spitting Images: Shahid Buttar 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:07.120 Were waiting no reparations, waiting listening, waiting on reparations. The 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.400 production of I Heart Radio tell tell us the possible 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.280 industry and being Sherman's Company and the big private prison 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.280 propertier Telling Company, and the big parmaceutical industry and comfortably 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.560 mo medical indebticness crushes is underneath I'm but won't believe 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.560 the working people love the ones that need the biggest 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:25.520 chunk of cheese. And with Bernie Sanders one in the 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.120 scene every man woman and see if you tan Germanic, 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.520 if you're transterfering, and seat you're a friend of serving 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.519 to see Sherman kering. The week workers earn a fifteen 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.120 gon Zoomers earn the degrees with human friending the week 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.360 attacking the corporations with certain decurb greeted with the green 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.239 new deal. The earth burning will see. So who are 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:44.720 you on on this battle for humanity? Are you with 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.280 the Ola Garta with the working families? Are you with 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.760 the future of our planet or his enemy? Are you 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:51.720 with the one person? Where were you on the sands 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.440 and the revolutions over and exploding like a nova? I 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.840 just took a right of Kroger and nobody pulled me over. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.480 I got lost on site and ain't nobody sober. You 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.120 know my name, Dope Knife. My mama called me Toga go. 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.920 We smoke up. It's all leegal, We all equal, We 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.520 all ball. No such thing as small people, gunsticks, pots 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.959 and pans before evil. Now we got plots of land fall. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.760 Zero sedo. I won't be shocking and jobbing. Blaze at 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.960 your face. Why the fuck are you smiling? Politicians ain't original, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.959 nothing surprising. They clones of each other like they stuck 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:27.920 on the island. Well, what's up, y'all? What's happening? My 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.840 name is Dope Knife, Lingo franca and we are waiting 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:37.119 on reparations. Hurry, Hey, So how you doing. I'm busybody, 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:43.640 fresh off of quote unquote vacation in North Carolina. Else, Dope, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.319 watch a lot of Netflix, uh ate a lot of 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.720 cookie doughs straight out of the tube. So it sounds 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.680 like a little bit of what you're doing here. But 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:52.400 over there, yeah, I pretty much the same thing. I'm 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.400 still going to commission meetings and whatnot. Um, but just 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:58.960 in the company of my mother. How is she all right? 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:01.720 She's good, mean, she she's got lupus and so she's 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.720 been very careful with COVID and everything and just generally 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.520 has a lot of like long issues and so, uh, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.880 I'm glad that she's staying safe and inside. I was 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.440 reading at home. So yeah, So I have a meeting 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.240 with the police chief of Athens tomorrow about some of 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:20.359 the movement's demands. Um that we've been uh having his 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.320 protests over continually. I've been seeing you know, all of 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.400 the country. They're still ongoing. Even the media has not 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.040 covered it. It's closely, but you know, there's been a 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.239 call for like a ban on neck restraints here, a 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.320 ban on tear gas like they've done in Seattle, Denver, Dallas, 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.600 Philadelphia and in Portland. Um, and a lot of other 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.480 things that aren't even radical, like the finding the police 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.760 freak people out, but like things like requiring officers to 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.040 give a warning before they shoot is actually required in 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.240 seventy out of one hundred of the largest police departments 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.240 in the country. You know, as a fan of action movies, 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.560 cops in action movies used to like yo freeze all 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:58.280 the time. I don't know what happened to that. Yeah, Um, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.360 there's the requirement that officers have a duty to intervene 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.960 to stop another officer from using excessive force, which is 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.919 standard in fifty out of one d of the largest 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:10.120 police departments in the country. Um, out of the hundred 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.040 largest police departments in the country have de escalation continuum 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.120 and like a use of force continuum. And so like, 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.280 we're just asking for things that him. Yeah, I want 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.680 to presently see him tomorrow. Um does he not know this? 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.760 He knows the ship. You know, this is what we want. Uh. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.560 They called this meeting because they were like, Mariah, you 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.440 have to stop having these caravans without apertmit. And I 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.600 was like, the movement does not ask for permission to 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.840 mass disrupt, Like you know what I'm saying, Well, how 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.040 are you doing. I'm good. Um, I was chilling here 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.840 taking care of your cat. And uh, you know, sweet boy, 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:48.640 he was coming in and out as he pleased, but 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.760 he was good. Um. Made some more progress on my 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.600 comic book, and I produced a bunch of beats that 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.839 I'm going to be using on this show soon. Sick 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:01.680 not gonna be on this episode. This episode is going 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.160 to be some of my older beats and Factor chandelier. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.560 But I'm gonna have some new fire for the people 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.600 in a little bit, and the Black Lives Matter Punisher 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.040 shirt that I did with Jerry Conway, the creator of Punisher, 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.919 that finally got printed and people are starting to get those. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.559 So and then on top of that, I'm getting ready 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.960 for this show that I have on July eight. It's 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.960 gonna be on Twitch tv Slash the Grand Collab. But 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.719 it's gonna be like an indie hip hop stream show 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.920 is going to be a bunch of dough backs, but 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.320 I'm gonna be one of them. So yes, tuned into 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.719 the rap a little bit. But yeah, Now other than that, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.839 just been watching the news and and you know, writing 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.360 and stuff like that. You you heard about this Kanye show. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.760 Is there something new? Well, I mean development, you know, 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:56.760 we haven't we haven't talked about him since he announced 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.400 that he was I feel like last time that we 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.200 mentioned him, he announced that he was going to run 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.200 for president and it's obviously bullshit, But just your general thoughts. 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.480 I mean, I loved watching like the libs lose their 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.520 ship about it. A lot of people doing the you know, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.279 doing the research about what countries, what sorry, doing the 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.560 research about what states he can't get on the ballot 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.799 for how would it affect the electoral math and whose 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.800 votes would he take? Oh, the young black voters aren't 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.400 gonna vote for Biden anymore. I'm kind of mad that 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.000 it's Kanye, to be honest with you, like I'm mad 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.719 that it's not that if it was any other rapper 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.640 that I would think it's as acceptable or that they're qualified. 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.080 But at least I would understand people's logic, you know 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.320 what I mean? Can I ask you a question? Yeah, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.960 what if it was tell them quality? Yeah? Well, okay, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.279 So that's exactly what I'm saying. So I'm not saying that, oh, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.360 I think that Taller Quality is qualified to be president, 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.799 but if somebody says, oh, Tler Quality should be president, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.960 I'm thinking, okay, while people are looking at famous people 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.840 to be president these days, So alright, Tyler Quality is 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.400 a conscious rapper who people know is politically where I 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:12.279 understand someone's logic in picking. What if it was Chance 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:18.920 the rapper, You know, he was going hard for Kanye 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.200 the other day when about operations in abolishing prisons. But 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.200 exactly at the same time, I will say, you know, 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.360 Chance the rapper is a lot more politically aware of 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.880 of a rapper and a person just historically than Kanye 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.160 has been in my in my opinion, from my point 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.120 of view. So again, I would understand people's train of 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.080 thought to be like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna I think 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.960 the chance of the rapper. But but what but like, 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.640 would you feel tempted, would I want? Would you feel 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:51.200 tempted what to vote for? Chance the rapper? Hell, I 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.119 might be a little bit tempted. No, I'm kind of over. 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:01.039 I'm over like celebrities. I think I think I've seen 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:06.320 what that's like. Good, all right, Fine, well let's talk 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:11.720 to our real candidate, all right. So yeah, bottom line, 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.320 I mean, I don't I think that it's I think 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.520 it's kind of racist to frame it in this in 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.640 the way of, oh, a black person's running, they're going 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.880 to siphon the black vote, doesn't matter who they don't 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.080 understand how hip hop works. But in the sense that 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:32.000 like white listeners make up like Kanye was able to 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.920 like catapult to such a ban because his appeal is 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.440 mostly to white people. But the thing that you know, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.120 we're going to cover it a bit on our our 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.440 episode that we're doing on Donald Trump at some point. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.800 But I don't know, like I feel like when I 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.440 think of Donald Trump as president. To me, and I've 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:56.240 always felt this, there's like a list of qualities that 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:01.640 I think disqualify him from being from being able to 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.920 lead a country point blank period. You know what I'm saying. 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.440 They're like a list of like character traits and human 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.040 qualities that I feel like, Okay, that's checked off, Okay, 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.160 check off, and they'd like go into order of like 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.640 importance of just like functionality of what somebody needs, the 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.640 tools of someone needs to like be the head of stay. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.880 And like he's racist is like number four in there, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.160 you know what I'm saying. But there's like a couple 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.640 other traits that I'm like, yeah, I see that in Kanye. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.800 I wouldn't want that to be president at all. Like ever, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.480 like no, like you know what I'm saying, I feel 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:35.839 the same exact way that I feel about that of 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.160 Trump about it. So I don't know. To me, it's 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.920 it's just it's disappointing that I mean, we're here at 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:46.560 all because we could have had Bernie Sands. Speaking of Bernie, 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.840 so like I feel like, you know, I opened up 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.280 the show with some bars I wrote about Bernie back 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.880 in February because our guests this week has somewhat failed 0:08:55.880 --> 0:09:00.960 a void in a lot of like young progressive organizing UM, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:06.880 like capacity, UM, media, attention and leadership UM. His name 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.000 should hit Batar. He's running for UM Dancy Pelosi seat 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:15.080 in the twelfth congressional district of California. And so I 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:16.880 think that like a lot of folks are turning for 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.480 hope else that they're looking to people like shot Head, 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.760 looking to people like Kanye. Maybe not like Bernie Bros 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.439 said as much. I don't know. I saw mixed things 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:38.560 on Twitter. Frankly, what about Bernie Bros Being like, yeah, Kanye. Well, 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.760 this is going to be part of a series that 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.920 we're gonna be doing of interviews with people who have 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.320 or who have had a foot in the culture of 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.120 hip hop as active participants, whether that be an m 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:55.360 C breakdancer, graffiti artists, but then also have another foot 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.920 either in politics or activism just general cool ship that's 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.320 making an impact, making a difference in the world. This 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:08.439 series is called Spitting Images. I thought that myself, And 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.440 so there's obvious races that like progressives are now sort 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.200 of turning their attention to UM across the country because 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.120 you know the very policy driven um we're seeing now 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.360 with pandemic unfolding and five point four million people having 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.800 lost their health insurance UM since it started, like you know, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.960 fucking Medicare for all man, it could have been a 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.520 thing um and stuff like that. So we're like trying 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.920 to figure out how to keep that those policy goals alive. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.240 And it's through electing people like shot Ahead, I think. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.560 So to start for folks that don't know about you, 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.040 if you can tell us a little bit about yourself 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.520 and why you're running down set Nancy Pelosi in Congress. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.160 I'm an immigrant, UM, an artist. I'm a lawyer and 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:53.640 an advocate, and I basically watched my city in Washington 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.960 for the better part of twenty years be represented by 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.120 a voice that's proven all too willing to Sup or 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:05.280 Wall Street before San Francisco. And I've been in San 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.079 Francisco since two thousand. I spent about half that time 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.640 in Washington, d C. Fighting for San Francisco's values and 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.200 interests there without a seat in Congress, and from the 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.720 time when I was challenging bushes, wors for profit and 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:25.479 Obama's drone strikes and wars on the press and deportations 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:30.120 and mass surveillance, and then Trump's corruption and mendacity and 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.480 assaults on human rights and reason across every one of 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.679 those eras of abuses, I've seen Nancy Pelosi standing with 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.559 corporate and conservative interests instead of the progressive interests of 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.760 the city that I love. And so you I've heard 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.280 you refer to yourself in in other interviews as a 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.920 political artist, and I wonder how UM arts have factored 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:57.319 into your advocacy or been leveraged for your advocacy in 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.560 previous campaigns that you've fought for US issues. It's been 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.440 really for me, very integral, even before politics, like in 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:10.240 a meta sense, like I got a culturated basically through 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.000 spoken word and hip hop, Like it was hearing I 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.400 was in Chicago in the nineties and um, you know, 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.520 like the Green Mill is a place that comes to 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.320 mind on the north side of the city. And you know, 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.520 even like just back in Hyde Parks on the south side, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.560 just hearing in Cipher's hearing on stages and open mics 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.960 on the trains, and like the trains and the train stations, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.200 like moming with people. You just to hear people's stories, 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:40.679 you know, and that's it was through the mechanism, if 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.079 you will. It's like a gross ware to apply here, 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.160 like the word is the beginning of art, and I 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.960 think it was the art is always reflecting on the 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.480 circumstances that we come from and and are in. I 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.280 think any art that pretends not to be political is 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.440 simply blind to its political insinuation. It was like, if 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.239 you're not challenging the power in your art, you're implicitly 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.520 deferring to it. And much of the art I had 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.120 a chance to hear in that era was very, if 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.280 not challenging power, at least speaking from beneath the boot. 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.280 And so that's plus my own experience, you know, that's 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.320 kind of a perspective through which I see policies, you know, 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.520 from the lens of an immigrant whose family migrated around 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.920 the world, you know, halfway around the world twice to 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.960 get here, seeking the freedoms and opportunities that we continued 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.760 to deny our own people here in the United States 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:37.880 and always have you know, um, when did you first start, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.360 like wrapping, and what impact do you think it had them? 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.960 Like your ability to communicate in general or in public 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:51.480 speaking U in late high school around how old, were 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.679 you h sixteen fifteen sixteen, I was doing musical theater. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.800 I'm sorry, Oh, I said, word, that's that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.320 we're we're We're like a hippoie hob show, so we 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.240 say stuff like word fresh though, no, no, it's cool. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.000 I think I had to turn up the volume on 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.040 my mike because obviously I think I had it turned down. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.560 So that's fil and fall. Sorry for that, but yeah, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.160 I know, for me, musical theater was like how I 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:17.440 cracked out of my shell. You know, I was an 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.560 awkward immigrant and I didn't really know how to fit in. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.280 And I grew up in rural Missouri and we moved 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.960 to the suburbs, and that was a pretty profound cultural change. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.880 It's like we immigrated by moving half an hour, no 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.960 second time, and for my family a third time. That 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:31.800 was the second time. For me. You know, my family 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.440 moved from Pakistan to England, and from England to rural Missouri, 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.960 and then from rural Missouri to the suburbs. Every one 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.080 of those was a, you know, pretty profound migration. And 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.760 then I moved to the South side of Chicago before 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:44.760 I went to Stanford for law school and like every 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.840 one of those was a pretty profound migration. And yeah, 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:53.240 the art I mean for me, I would say poetry 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.840 and lyrics, both in the sense of giving me the 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.440 opportunity to just speak to things that I don't necessarily 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.800 even address in my politics, you know, like just where 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.800 your soul comes from, Like that's a venue for a 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.960 whole range of expression beyond that, and you know, like 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.640 the metaphysical unity of all things and how we all 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.200 share an interest ultimately, like a self interest in preserving 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.640 a future for all of us. Like that's like the 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.480 thing I don't necessarily like riff on a lot in 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.400 a left brain this course, you know, but like the 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.840 heart gives me a chance to hit on um, so 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.360 that the more visionary side. And then also just in 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.320 the sense I would say, you know, I get um. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.320 I get occasionally shouted out for knowing how to use 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.720 a microphone, and I think that that particularly came from 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.920 performance and just time on micure the path that you're on, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.960 Like was this all was this always part of your 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.560 plan or was there ever like a point where you 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.640 considered actually focusing on music or poetry. I mean my 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.080 dream if I were instruct my like yeah, like if 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:55.960 you had a genie that you could just like, Yeah, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.600 I'd rather be an artist, frankly, not to keep my 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.480 time than to dabble in politics. I feel that. Yeah, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.040 for sure, Definitely I feel pressed into politics. I mean 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.520 this is I feel scripted by by cur Yeah for sure, definitely. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.360 I feel the same in like, you know, my political work. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:15.000 I wish I didn't have to be doing this, but 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.720 someone has to be pushing for these changes. I'd rather 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.200 just be rapping all day. But well, but that idea 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.360 of doing it off on and off the mic, you know, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.000 being about it, Yeah, is is you know something I 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.080 take that from. Like, you know, there's so many m 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.360 c s over do you remember, like back in the day, 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.840 I think it was Al Gore and Bill Clinton were 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:40.200 demagoguing sisters soldier. That's like become a political colloquialism for 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.640 speaking out against your base pretty much. And she was 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.760 like she was a spoken word community organizer. Like you know, 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.280 the number of people I've met over the years who 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.040 are compelled by the things they witnessed to speak the 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.400 truth whatever it means for power. I mean, that's that's 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.200 like the grist from which all useful anything in our 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.080 society has calm, you know, those those are the grios. 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.240 That's the oral history that preceded the institutional history that is, 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:21.560 you know, brainwashed gation. I've been for the last few days. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.040 I've been, um bumping, get out of your chair your 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.320 two thousand and eight album, right, So I'm just just 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.560 curious just how did that album come together? Because it 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.640 seems to be the only one in your discography, so like, 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.000 you know who produced it? Was it all all the 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.560 beats somebody you knew or was it you or I 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.840 couldn't really find too much of the credits for it. Yeah, 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.800 I'll break it down, um, and yeah, I've had other 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.679 songs since, but not really enough to put an album 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.920 together out of Oh my God, the world needs it. Nancy, 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.159 will you give us the second album? I appreciate that 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:55.960 I have. I have tracked in the can, right, but 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.800 I've never released just because it's like I don't have 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.720 any time like make cover art or I mean, I've 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.879 got this one song Justice that have had mccan for 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.480 like a year, and it's just like bumping house track. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.720 It's a little poppy and it riffs on mass incarceration, 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.240 homelessness in particular as well as militarism. Like I try 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.520 to do like the Doctor King's intersecting evils. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.159 and you know it's like probably my best like vocal 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.520 rendition of anything song. So like you know, I like 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:21.760 to sing and wrap over house tracks. That's kind of 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.560 a don't tease this with stuff that we'll never get 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.399 to hear. Well, if it's like that, if I hear 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.800 there's an audience, I'll just put a random like that's 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.520 definitely an audience for my man. That's definitely what's wearing 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.680 right now. Well, we're actually this is gonna this is 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.879 gonna be This interview is part of a series that 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.160 we're thinking about doing where we're just gonna be talking 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.600 to people who are you know, one foot in hip 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.240 hop and the other foot in politics or activism, you know, 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.000 right on, because there's a lot of people who are 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.199 doing it. Apparently, talk to equipso make sure you talk 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.920 to him. And Okay, definitely Fristco five, you know, helped 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.440 organize the one of the really driving forces behind the 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.119 longer strike at the Mission District Police Station responding to 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.800 the murder of Alex Nieto and Mario Woods. Before that, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.359 UM and if you get a chance to talk to 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.159 Keith Ellison. One of my favorite moments of TC my 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.040 first time there. I think this would have been like 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.000 two thousand nine eight. I'm riding up an escalator and 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.320 I'm right next to representative at the time, Keith Ellison, 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.560 and somehow we fall into a cipher to each other 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:32.199 the escalator. It was it was really like I remember 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.080 that moment just feeling because it was very like not 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:39.000 to kind of ship that happens. Yeah, well, I mean 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.440 that's the thing with like MCN is this like fight 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:46.080 club and ship like we're everywhere, we're the politician teachers. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.119 I'm pretty sure. My favorite cipher I was ever and 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.720 was at net Roots in two thousand seventeen in Atlanta 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:53.800 with a bunch of folks from like Democracy for America, 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.320 my Working Families Party. We're just like, you know, we 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:58.760 just ciphered up in the lobby of the highest, you know, 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.840 and it was like about defeating mass incarceration and uplifting 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.280 working family escention. Hell yeah, but sorry, we were talking 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.119 about back to the album. Yeah, so yeah, So the production. 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.600 The production was really unique. It had a lot of 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.119 like hand percussion. It sounded really had a homemade sound 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.880 to home, made like acoustic quality to it. That that's 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.159 it's most of the hand drumming you heard on that album. 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.200 There were two people of Kristin Rant in Washington, d C. 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.040 And Ken Qualm in Washington, d C. And they both 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.320 illustrate exactly what we're talking about. Kristen. Kristen has a 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.080 lifetime band from the National Press Club because she interrupted 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.520 Donald Romstall to drop the banner saying you have blood 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.480 on your hands, are speaking of the press conference in 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.119 two three. I met her right when I moved to 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.280 Washington the first time, and we co organized the DC 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:48.560 Gorilla Poetry Insurgency. It's one of the grassroots performance collectives 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.760 and I put together over the years. And then she 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.199 she's we've performed together like any number of places. She 0:20:55.240 --> 0:21:00.080 taught me to draw. And then Ken Qualm and on 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:05.760 a Boss, the China Town Boss. I think from China, 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:07.920 I think from Boston to New York and like two 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.960 thou So then maybe and he was at the time, 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:16.080 he was like a young man, he'd been organizing against 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.760 the war as a student on his college campus, got 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.800 super into it, got super burnt out. I think he 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.000 ended up paying some like personal prices for his organizing 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.439 in terms of like you know, needing to take some 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.440 time away from school and like definitely burned out of 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.880 his inspiration and then like I've seen him since get 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.720 reinspired in reuation the movement, and he'd come to he 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.359 was Remember he was a trained musician at the Berkeley 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.520 School of Music, so that he was like a legit musician. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.720 And Kristen is too. She she trained an oboe in particular, 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.119 and they were basically the instrumentation you heard on the 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:48.760 album was like my holies, you know, and like who 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:54.840 I could drag into a studio. So and and it's 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.600 interesting too because that album, you know, it reflects much 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.359 more of like a funk and you know, live music 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.040 performance sensibility than most of what I performed is like 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.560