Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: Search Bloomberg Global News. Virus headlines, Tim and I just
Speaker 1: covered a little bit of them. One thing that stuck
Speaker 1: out for me, Tim, medical experts who advise US regulators
Speaker 1: on vaccines, they're really chafing at what they perceive as
Speaker 1: political interference by the Biden administration in the review process
Speaker 1: of booster shots. I have to say it's a little
Speaker 1: bit confusing for me. It's confusing about booster shots and
Speaker 1: also confusing. Okay, which are the vaccines or which is
Speaker 1: the vaccine that has been fully approved versus one that
Speaker 1: has emergency use authorization? What does that mean? For employers
Speaker 1: who can mandate shots exactly. I think it's really confusing.
Speaker 1: So let's get some clarity back with us as Dr
Speaker 1: Peter alper And he is VP at the now publicly
Speaker 1: traded Doximity you might recall it. I p o back
Speaker 1: in late June, is a professional medical network for physicians.
Speaker 1: He joins us on the phone from Austin, Texas, and
Speaker 1: he's been a great voice for us to reach out
Speaker 1: to during the pandemic. Dr Alpern, how are you. I'm
Speaker 1: doing well, Thank you, thanks so much for having me on. Well,
Speaker 1: it's good to have you back with Tim and myself.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about well, provide us some
Speaker 1: clarities basically, because it does feel like we're getting a
Speaker 1: lot of different information about UM, the vaccine and boosters.
Speaker 1: How do you see it. What's the advice that you
Speaker 1: and your colleagues are giving out to patients? Yeah, so UM.
Speaker 1: I mean the core advice remains the same, which is
Speaker 1: that we advise everybody you know, for whom the vaccine
Speaker 1: has approved, which is basically everybody twelve and older to
Speaker 1: go ahead and get their vaccines if they haven't done it. UM.
Speaker 1: And we have seen an increases in the number of
Speaker 1: vaccines over the past several weeks and people getting vaccinated
Speaker 1: with respect to boosters UM, So at this current moment,
Speaker 1: the boosters a third shot is to be clear, to
Speaker 1: clarify what it is we mean by booster has been
Speaker 1: approved for people who are have sort of certain, you know,
Speaker 1: compromising conditions, and that can either be that their patients
Speaker 1: who are living with cancer or that they're on medications
Speaker 1: which can suppress their immune system. But other than that, uh,
Speaker 1: it is currently not recommended that people get a third shot. UM.
Speaker 1: There is talk about on September that people can start
Speaker 1: to get their booster shots for people who got the
Speaker 1: shot very early, which is mostly people who work in healthcare.
Speaker 1: The clock. The clock is taking though to September twenty
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering what kind of guidance you would like
Speaker 1: to see from the FDA or from regulators about who
Speaker 1: should get it, how long they should wait to get it.
Speaker 1: If they got Maderna, did they get a booster from biiser?
Speaker 1: Is that okay? If they got j and they got
Speaker 1: two shots of a lot of information out there, what
Speaker 1: is going on like the rest of us very much
Speaker 1: await and see I I understand the frustration, but I
Speaker 1: do know that the folks at the CDC and the
Speaker 1: other federal regulatory agencies are working hard on this. I
Speaker 1: do suspect that what will happen is that people will
Speaker 1: be recommended to get a booster, likely of the same
Speaker 1: shot that they had before. And I have started to
Speaker 1: read things about suggestions that patients who received the j
Speaker 1: J vaccine will receive another one as well. But you
Speaker 1: raise a very good point. Um, you know there's a
Speaker 1: lot of data out there too that people need to
Speaker 1: sift through. One of the things that we've seen, Um,
Speaker 1: certain hiptoximity is just the explosion and medical information, and
Speaker 1: so providers are hungry for for clarity like like everybody else. Um.
Speaker 1: But there is, in fairness a tremendous amount of data.
Speaker 1: So again that it remains the same thing. Be safe, Um,
Speaker 1: make sure that you're vaccinated the first time. But I
Speaker 1: suspect that these recommendations will come out quite saying Hey
Speaker 1: talk Ralfer, and I got to ask about flu shots
Speaker 1: because here we are. I was at the pediatrician with
Speaker 1: my son earlier this week. The pediatrician said, Hey, we
Speaker 1: got flu shots in do you want to get one
Speaker 1: for him and I said yes, and do you have
Speaker 1: any for me? And he said we do, we have
Speaker 1: extra h And I got my flu shot already. What
Speaker 1: are you hearing right now about flu season? And what
Speaker 1: would you say to people who are don't even have
Speaker 1: that on their radar at this point because we've been
Speaker 1: so focused on COVID and last year was so mild
Speaker 1: when it came to flu season, I just put it
Speaker 1: on my to do that. Thank you, Carol, Absolutely great question,
Speaker 1: and you so you're absolutely right that last year's flu
Speaker 1: season was mild, likely because people were really washing their
Speaker 1: hands and people were distancing. So important point masks too,
Speaker 1: maybe spread part of masks as well. Maybe yes, masks
Speaker 1: as well. Absolutely, um So, a lot of the precautions
Speaker 1: that we were taking and continue to take in a
Speaker 1: lot of circumstances for COVID are very helpful to prevent
Speaker 1: the flu. And as I was going to say, is
Speaker 1: it flu is path by touch much more than certainly
Speaker 1: than covid, which is large emission cannot be transmitted that way.
Speaker 1: In terms of getting a flu vaccine, um, it's absolutely
Speaker 1: a great idea. It's always a good idea to get
Speaker 1: your flu vaccine. Every year. The flu is a significant
Speaker 1: cause of morbidity and mortality, meaning that it puts people
Speaker 1: in the hospital and can even lead to death and
Speaker 1: those who are elderly or having certain compromising conditions. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you got your child with flu shot,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that you've got it yourself. Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: just got about a minute left here. You guys have
Speaker 1: some new stuff that's going out. Tell us about your
Speaker 1: residency navigator too, because you're a public company in our
Speaker 1: audience is interested in public companies. Uh yeah, well, thank
Speaker 1: you for that. Um so. Yeah. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that we do with Toximity is we have a
Speaker 1: variety of tools and features that help physicians at all
Speaker 1: stages of their career. And one of those features is
Speaker 1: the Residency Navigator, which is a tool that helps those
Speaker 1: younger physicians, the ones graduating medical school and choosing their
Speaker 1: training program, which is required of all doctors so that
Speaker 1: they can get licensed. Uh. They it's a that we
Speaker 1: provide that helps them choose the program that's the best
Speaker 1: fit for them depending upon what their career goals are.
Speaker 1: We update that with the latest data, and yes, that
Speaker 1: just got released a few weeks ago. So we're excited
Speaker 1: when we're seeing great wait and there's a couple's match
Speaker 1: twenty seconds. Is this like Tinder the medical version? Just
Speaker 1: quickly cool? That helps. There's a tool that helps those
Speaker 1: physicians who have met their partner during residency or some
Speaker 1: prior time, who are both physicians, to be able to
Speaker 1: find a location that can support both of their career goals.
Speaker 1: And so if one is a surgeon and one is
Speaker 1: an internal medicine position, they can both use this tool
Speaker 1: to find the best place to go. Makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1: I have friends who you know, had to fly every
Speaker 1: weekend to see one another when they were residents because
Speaker 1: they are residents thousands of miles away. Is it like
Speaker 1: swipe left first surgeon, swipe right for an intern. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not a doctor. Not on a platform.
Speaker 1: Dr Peter Apron, always get to hear your voice, Vice
Speaker 1: President Doximity on the phone from Austin. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: to m on Bloomberg Radio. All right, Hurricane I do
Speaker 1: not thank you, the fifth largest hurricane in our history.
Speaker 1: We heard Present Biden saying that just about an hour
Speaker 1: or so ago, making its mark tim from New Orleans
Speaker 1: and the Gulf Coast all the way up to the Northeast.
Speaker 1: It's coming at the same time we're seeing extreme weather
Speaker 1: play out, not just throughout the United States, but throughout
Speaker 1: the world, with flooding in Europe and uh, extreme weather
Speaker 1: in California in a drought that's just gripping the West.
Speaker 1: All right, we want to talk about all of this
Speaker 1: because climate change, we know, is also impacting the frequency
Speaker 1: and ferocity of storms. Here with more on that is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Sustainability editor Eric Roston joining us now on
Speaker 1: the phone in New Jersey. Eric, first of all, I
Speaker 1: hope you and your your family are safe. Hi. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. We're We looked out a lot
Speaker 1: of people in northern New Jersey and in New York
Speaker 1: and the region had real serious flooding last night, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, our thoughts are with everybody who's suffering through this. Yes,
Speaker 1: we as well. Um, you know the storms, the type
Speaker 1: of storms where they're hitting, what they're doing. Tell us
Speaker 1: how you know, you guys cover sustainability, you cover climate change.
Speaker 1: How does climate change impact what we're living through? Right?
Speaker 1: Now when it comes to storms and weather patterns, climate
Speaker 1: change is exacerbating everything. It's making terrible things worse. Basically,
Speaker 1: the we've had, you know, projections for many years that
Speaker 1: are now really beginning to come true. Heat Waves are
Speaker 1: hotter and longer and more frequent. Tropical cyclones like hurricanes
Speaker 1: in this hemisphere are becoming more intense. There is there's
Speaker 1: a very direct relationship between the temperature of the atmosphere
Speaker 1: and the amount of water vapor it can hold. Every
Speaker 1: degree the temperature rises, the air can hold about seven
Speaker 1: more water vapor and it comes down when when conditions
Speaker 1: are as they have been for Hurricane i'da through the
Speaker 1: Gulf of Mexico up through the northeast as we as
Speaker 1: we saw last night. So we've expected this. It is
Speaker 1: as terrible or worse than we expected. Um and it
Speaker 1: leaves us with this very strange um I think situation,
Speaker 1: which is we're having these terrible weather events, and we
Speaker 1: know that greenhouse gases are driving a lot of the uh,
Speaker 1: you know, extra damages we're seeing. So that's that's where
Speaker 1: things stand today. Eric. It's it's it's puzzling to me
Speaker 1: at the same time because we're seeing these extreme weather events.
Speaker 1: While we're also seeing companies come out at least during
Speaker 1: the United States and certainly in the European Union with
Speaker 1: really ambitious climate goals. But these goals are years out
Speaker 1: we're talking, and I wonder how much worse things are
Speaker 1: going to get before they start to get better. We
Speaker 1: have yet to turn the hide. Carbon dioxide emissions in
Speaker 1: the atmosphere, that's the most important greenhouse gas continue to rise.
Speaker 1: Even though they took a big hip, a really historic
Speaker 1: hit last year, down by like five or six percent. UH,
Speaker 1: it's still negligible. UM. So all of these UH pledges
Speaker 1: are super super important, and I think in most cases
Speaker 1: there's not reason to doubt the genuineness of the goals
Speaker 1: or the motivations to achieve them. UM. But you're right,
Speaker 1: they have yet to become actualized. In most cases, there
Speaker 1: is enormous progress in renutable energy as we see just
Speaker 1: like year after year, the games are phenomenal, even though
Speaker 1: they're still not fast enough. UM. But this is this
Speaker 1: is an economy in transition that we that we have
Speaker 1: now we a global economy, and transition just got thirty
Speaker 1: seconds just quickly. Eric. I mean, we talked about inequities.
Speaker 1: It does feel like those countries, those cities that are
Speaker 1: wealthier are going to be able to figure out solutions
Speaker 1: faster and better than others in terms of surviving climate
Speaker 1: change just quickly. Is that fair? That is totally fair.
Speaker 1: It was the subject of a feature we ran earlier
Speaker 1: this week that I drive everyone's attention to uh fortunately
Speaker 1: and to leave on a hopeful note of many many
Speaker 1: life saving opportunities and keep waves and other events are
Speaker 1: not income dependent. We can save lives without rebuilding cities
Speaker 1: from scratch. Thank you so much for coming on. We
Speaker 1: really wanted to check in with you today. Eric Roston,
Speaker 1: Stay Safe, Sustainability editor at Bloomberg News, joining us on
Speaker 1: the phone in New Jersey. Yeah. Important to check out
Speaker 1: that future too, available at Bloomberg dot com. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes,
Speaker 1: tim's Enovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well this week it is
Speaker 1: a special double issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It's
Speaker 1: the City's issue and the cover story the issue is
Speaker 1: about Mark Lourie, who Tim amassed a fortune building e
Speaker 1: commerce sites, several of them, and he's on a new
Speaker 1: mission investing that money into building a privately run city.
Speaker 1: He shared that vision with our own Joshua Boosting. He did,
Speaker 1: and Joshua Brewsting joins us now he's technology editor at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. He's joining us on the phone from
Speaker 1: New York City. I think a lot of listeners and
Speaker 1: readers of Bloomberg Business Magazine might remember Lorrie from the
Speaker 1: cover that he was on a few years ago when
Speaker 1: he launched jet dot com. That was the way that
Speaker 1: the world found out about Jet dot com before Walmart
Speaker 1: a couple of years later bought it for more than
Speaker 1: three billion dollars. But Joshua, before we get into this,
Speaker 1: just give us some background about who Mark Laurie is
Speaker 1: and really what he's trying to build after building these
Speaker 1: e commerce sites. Sure, yeah, thanks for having me. Um.
Speaker 1: As you said, Mark Laurie has had a successful career
Speaker 1: building e commerce websites. First, he built h the company
Speaker 1: that ran diapers dot com, which he sold to Amazon,
Speaker 1: worked for Amazon for a bit, left and built Jet
Speaker 1: dot Com, which is basically an Amazon competitor, which was
Speaker 1: bought by Walmart. He then ran Walmart's e commerce UM
Speaker 1: division for about the last five years, but Almost immediately
Speaker 1: upon getting to Walmart, he started talking to people about
Speaker 1: this plan to build a city from scratch. Basically. UM
Speaker 1: that his current plan is for it to have eventually
Speaker 1: about five million people. That would be forty years from now,
Speaker 1: and obviously a lot would have to go right to
Speaker 1: get there. UM. And he's just starting to lay some
Speaker 1: of the groundwork for what's a pretty audacious project. Is
Speaker 1: it going to happen historically? Um? If you look at
Speaker 1: what other people who have had come up with similar
Speaker 1: plans like this, I think the answer would be no. Um.
Speaker 1: There have been a really steady stream of these utopian
Speaker 1: city building projects over the years. UM. I talked to
Speaker 1: a professor at McGill University who studies them and says
Speaker 1: that there's about a hundred and fifty such projects underway
Speaker 1: right now. UM. But she said she couldn't really point
Speaker 1: to a single one that had fully succeeded in its goals.
Speaker 1: Some of them do have some people, but they never
Speaker 1: quite get to the heights that they're aiming for. Joshua.
Speaker 1: A few months ago, you got some time to to
Speaker 1: really sit down with with Mark Laurie and and really
Speaker 1: get his vision, which you lay out so clearly in
Speaker 1: the cover story of this edition in Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: What is it that motivates Mark Laurie to do this,
Speaker 1: What is he concerned about, what is his thinking around this,
Speaker 1: the philosophy around this. MH Yeah, interestingly, UM, I sort
Speaker 1: of figured that, you know, a guy coming from the
Speaker 1: tech industry wants to start own city that mostly what
Speaker 1: he'd want to talk about are a ton of this vehicles,
Speaker 1: drone delivery thing like things like that. I mean sort
Speaker 1: of like touch think if I think I want an
Speaker 1: ice cream cone in my hand and it just appears
Speaker 1: like that exactly, And he did talk about that a
Speaker 1: little bit. But like the thing that he's really interesting
Speaker 1: is this model of landownership UM, which was first floated
Speaker 1: by an economist named Henry George in the nine which
Speaker 1: is basically the idea that you could um hold the
Speaker 1: all of the all of the land in a city
Speaker 1: in a trust and instead of allowing people to own
Speaker 1: their own land, they everyone would be leasing the lands
Speaker 1: from this central trust and the income from that from
Speaker 1: that from those leases could be poured back into social services.
Speaker 1: And now Laurie thinks that this is a way to
Speaker 1: deal with inequality, which he professes to be his main, uh,
Speaker 1: his main incentive in trying to pursue this project. Um,
Speaker 1: it was a little bit jarring to to hear this
Speaker 1: from a guy as he said in his forty four
Speaker 1: million dollar Penhals apartment and explained it to me. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, but that is really what he seemed lasor
Speaker 1: focused on. Sounds like a really nice apartment. By the way,
Speaker 1: what I will say is, and we're getting ready to
Speaker 1: talk with David Rubinstein, who has a new book alt
Speaker 1: called The American Experiment, and it's you know, conversations he's
Speaker 1: had as America has continued to evolve and innovate and
Speaker 1: change on some really important issues. And I do think
Speaker 1: we are at this critical juncture when we look at
Speaker 1: some of our cities that are struggling and have struggled
Speaker 1: so much in the last year and a half, and
Speaker 1: you do wonder what happens going forward. Will the infrastructure
Speaker 1: ultimately come from the federal government and maybe change some
Speaker 1: of those cities that have been struggling. You know, do
Speaker 1: we have an opportunity because we could work from home,
Speaker 1: we don't have to work in major cities to reinvent
Speaker 1: the cities and towns that we have out there. So,
Speaker 1: you know, as crazy as it might be, Josh right,
Speaker 1: like you do, wonder does Mark Lori maybe have something
Speaker 1: that maybe there are ways we can do things better? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that there. Um this, there's a couple of
Speaker 1: themes that come up in a number of these sort
Speaker 1: of technology driven utopian city building ideas, which I think
Speaker 1: are rather valid critiques of the way that cities work. Now. UM,
Speaker 1: I think Lori is correctly identified the fact that inequality
Speaker 1: is an enormous problem UM and is causing really a
Speaker 1: lot of strain on on the capitalist system in the
Speaker 1: United States. UM. Also, if you have something like autonomous vehicles,
Speaker 1: you want to cut down on car use. Generally, these
Speaker 1: are big transformations of a city, and it's very hard
Speaker 1: to get things done in cities there. They tend to
Speaker 1: really grind down due to inertia politics. UM, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of there's a lot of reasons why things can't happen,
Speaker 1: um and uh and so yeah, I think that those
Speaker 1: those are good diagnosis of the problem. Whether you'd be
Speaker 1: able to do something like that by starting a new um,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's any easier, um, But you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it's certain tempting to give it a try.
Speaker 1: Where does this fall on his his list of priorities?
Speaker 1: And and and also when when he thinks about what
Speaker 1: he wants to be known for. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: a guy who's bought a steak in a pro basketball team,
Speaker 1: as you're right, he's learning the basics of his new
Speaker 1: Steinway Grand piano. He's got this team that's working on
Speaker 1: this new reality show. He's invested in EV talls. Um,
Speaker 1: where does this fall on his list of priorities right now?
Speaker 1: I think, well, I think the EV talls in the
Speaker 1: city kind of work. Two v talls are electronic vertical
Speaker 1: takeoff and landing vehicles basically flying cars. Um, I think
Speaker 1: those might fit into the city. I think it's right
Speaker 1: to wonder, with all these other things going on, do
Speaker 1: you have this like sort of crazy project out there
Speaker 1: if you're devoting what your time to it like something
Speaker 1: that's basically impossible anyway, Like can you do it of
Speaker 1: your time? That seems like a valid critique. His His
Speaker 1: response to critique, which obviously I raised with him, is
Speaker 1: that well, starting now, there's not much to do with
Speaker 1: the city project, but over time it will become everything
Speaker 1: he does, and he'll sort of, you know, move towards
Speaker 1: devoting all of his time um to it. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I think it would have to get to a state
Speaker 1: uh much different than it is now to justify that.
Speaker 1: But that's just twin. Well, there's so much detail in
Speaker 1: your story and it's a great read. It is the
Speaker 1: cover story of the double issue of Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: magazine on newsstands, on the Bloomberg and at business week
Speaker 1: dot com. Joshua Boosting, thank you so much, Technology editor
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg Business Week. As we said his cover story
Speaker 1: on Mark Laurie trying to create utopia, Carol, I've interviewed
Speaker 1: Mark Laurie a few times before and during jet it's
Speaker 1: just like a normal guys almost good. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: so interesting to hear about this grand vision. Yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: speaking of grand visions David Rubinstein and his latest book.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in just a moment. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so grab
Speaker 1: your drink of choice, Uh, settle into a comfy chair.
Speaker 1: If you're driving, pull over because we've got a great guest.
Speaker 1: Our next guest talks with all kinds of leaders from
Speaker 1: all walks of our lives, the household names, the exacts,
Speaker 1: the innovators, the warriors, the up starts, the artist, and
Speaker 1: from those conversations, he's written a trilogy of books, How
Speaker 1: to Lead on Leadership. The second, The American Story, was
Speaker 1: all about the American history, UH, and the book's title,
Speaker 1: The American Experiment, Dialogues and a Dream is his third
Speaker 1: book in this series. So it's great to have joining us. UH.
Speaker 1: David Rubinstein. He's host of Bloomberg Wealth on Bloomberg TV
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio, and of course you know him as
Speaker 1: co founder and co chair of the private equity from
Speaker 1: the Carlisle Group. He joins us in our interactive broker studio.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, My pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. It's really wonderful and I
Speaker 1: feel like you are someone who talks with so many
Speaker 1: different people, different points of view. UM, we were wondering
Speaker 1: about the last couple of years, with everything going on,
Speaker 1: how that kind of has shaped who you want to
Speaker 1: talk to and how you were thinking about this book.
Speaker 1: The American experiment. Well, generally, I'd like to talk to
Speaker 1: people who are willing to say something, as you know
Speaker 1: from being an interviewer. Uh, if you watch the Sunday
Speaker 1: talk shows, sometimes you say, why do these people go
Speaker 1: on these shows? Because they don't want to you want
Speaker 1: to say anything. What you want is somebody who's willing
Speaker 1: to say something and say something they haven't said before.
Speaker 1: That's the best interview, right, And so I'm always looking
Speaker 1: for somebody who is willing to be engaging and doesn't
Speaker 1: want to just spar with the interviewer and not say anything.
Speaker 1: So you know that's that's a challenge, but that's what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do. And you always want somebody that
Speaker 1: people will listen to and want to hear. So if
Speaker 1: I got an engaging guest but nobody's ever heard of
Speaker 1: that person, it may not be as effective. If you
Speaker 1: can get Jeff Bezos, you know, you know that's people
Speaker 1: want to hear from him, so truely, so you want
Speaker 1: somebody has a name and it was willing to engage.
Speaker 1: And some people are great and some people are not
Speaker 1: as great, and you know you've just figured out during
Speaker 1: the interview. But we think about what's happened with the pandemic,
Speaker 1: the capital riots, um, the inequities, George Floyd. We could
Speaker 1: go on and on. There's it feels like a decade
Speaker 1: or two decades of history have happened in the last
Speaker 1: year and a half. How is that, David shaped kind
Speaker 1: of your thinking and putting this book together? And again,
Speaker 1: the voices you wanted to get to, each one has
Speaker 1: a different thing. The January six event um, I do
Speaker 1: talk about it extensively in the book, and I basically
Speaker 1: say it was a severe stress test for America and
Speaker 1: America one and I dedicate the book to the public
Speaker 1: servants who protect our democracy because remember, we had sixty
Speaker 1: five lawsuits that were filed to overturn the January to
Speaker 1: overturn the election, and none of them actually prevailed, none
Speaker 1: of them got very far. All the judges basically complied
Speaker 1: with what is the rule of law, and they basically
Speaker 1: didn't act political. So I think we learned a lot
Speaker 1: about the importance of the rule of law in this country.
Speaker 1: We also learned a lot in terms of the and
Speaker 1: of health care in this country. How it's so unfair
Speaker 1: that people are her minority status or or are poor.
Speaker 1: Really we're suffering disproportionately because of COVID because they don't
Speaker 1: have good health care to begin with, and they don't
Speaker 1: have access to the best health care. And it's a
Speaker 1: sad situation. But it also made me think about this,
Speaker 1: my mortality. I'm seventy two years old, and when you're
Speaker 1: seventy two, you had a chance of you got this
Speaker 1: disease that you could maybe not survive. And we now
Speaker 1: know that six the people when on ventilators didn't actually
Speaker 1: come back out of the ventilators. We were putting people
Speaker 1: ventilators thinking was helping wasn't. So we learned a lot
Speaker 1: about how to treat people. But suppose I had gotten
Speaker 1: this and I went on a ventilator, I probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: be here now. So I learned a lot about my
Speaker 1: mortality and thinking about it. And the result is I'm
Speaker 1: rushing to get more things done because I now realize, hey,
Speaker 1: life is very sued and something bad could happen very quickly.
Speaker 1: And so that that's been something that I've been thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about. It's like the Hamilton's right, I'm running
Speaker 1: out of time right concept. As you point out in
Speaker 1: the book, the American experiment has been relatively short at
Speaker 1: this point, and I'm wondering if you could contextualize the
Speaker 1: way that you think about what happened over the last year,
Speaker 1: year and a half as to what extent it really
Speaker 1: stress tested us, because you do you do make note
Speaker 1: of the judiciary essentially saving the United States, not the lawmakers,
Speaker 1: because you do call out in the book the lawmakers,
Speaker 1: the senators, and the members of Congress who voted to
Speaker 1: overturn the election. They are still in power right now. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I know many of them, and privately they will
Speaker 1: say to you, well, I had to do that, or
Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't going to really prevail. Sure, many
Speaker 1: of these people were you know, I live in Washington,
Speaker 1: I host I host a series uh in front of
Speaker 1: Members of Congress once a month. With COVID ending soon
Speaker 1: hopefully I'll be resuming that, and I know a lot
Speaker 1: of members and so forth, and you know, privately what
Speaker 1: they say is, um, well I had to do this
Speaker 1: and they didn't really believe in it, but you know,
Speaker 1: and so forth. Some will say that I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go and say who said that, but clearly it's
Speaker 1: a very political situation. It's just the saddest Part of
Speaker 1: the whole situation we now face is that we've politicized
Speaker 1: the government so much so that the country's really unable
Speaker 1: to move forward very much. We have people who don't
Speaker 1: want to wear masks, who think that it's a good
Speaker 1: thing to force people not to wear masks. In effect,
Speaker 1: we we we you know, a sad situation in many
Speaker 1: ways when you think about it, that school children whose
Speaker 1: teachers want them to have masks are being told they
Speaker 1: aren't supposed to have that mask. Bad situation, and people
Speaker 1: are dying because of this. When did debate become like
Speaker 1: a bad thing? I thought that was what kind of
Speaker 1: the routes of democracy? We're all about, this whole idea
Speaker 1: of having different perspectives and hopefully talking it through and
Speaker 1: getting to a better place. When I worked in Congress
Speaker 1: and nineteen seventies and in the White House, uh, there
Speaker 1: was obviously political disputes all the time, and obviously this
Speaker 1: was after Watergate, but people thought eventually, you've got to
Speaker 1: get something done, and so you had bipartisan legislation. Now,
Speaker 1: if to be considered a great legislator used to be
Speaker 1: you were good at bipartisan legislation. Get people on both
Speaker 1: sides to work together now to be a great legislator. Um,
Speaker 1: you're probably somebody that is good in only getting your
Speaker 1: Democrats or your Republicans to support you. And members of
Speaker 1: Congress now spend so much time raising money because they
Speaker 1: want to raise money for their campaigns or to want
Speaker 1: anybody from challenging them, and they have to spend their
Speaker 1: time in the case of members of the House, to
Speaker 1: raising money. And the money and the Internet and social
Speaker 1: media has just divided the country in so many ways
Speaker 1: that I find it interesting when I host these dinners,
Speaker 1: so many people say this is the most interesting thing
Speaker 1: that members feel they're doing. In Washington. They can have
Speaker 1: a dinner when nobody sees their meeting with somebody from
Speaker 1: the opposite party cause there's no press there, and they
Speaker 1: can talk to people from the opposite house, which they
Speaker 1: really do because they rarely have conference committees anymore. It's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, look, I also recognize this. Every generation ten
Speaker 1: thousand years back and so forth has always said, well,
Speaker 1: in my time it was better, and now it's not
Speaker 1: as good now. George Washington's father allegedly told him, well,
Speaker 1: your dinner generation are not gonna achieve anything because you
Speaker 1: guys are not hard working or whatever. Well, the truth is,
Speaker 1: every general, every generation tells the younger people, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna be tough enough, You're not gonna be surviving enough.
Speaker 1: An ultimately civilization goes forward. So sure, they're they're challenges. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not happy with many things that have happened. One
Speaker 1: thing that did happen, though, uh, during all this period
Speaker 1: of time, it is the is the George Floyd murder.
Speaker 1: In that case, the thing that struck me was this,
Speaker 1: we've been through. I lived for the Civil Rights Revolution,
Speaker 1: We've lived for the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act,
Speaker 1: and so many things that have been done, infirmative action,
Speaker 1: other things. But this one murder crystallized for people in
Speaker 1: this country the fact that we are still discriminating in
Speaker 1: so many ways. Just think about it. All the people
Speaker 1: that have been lynched over the years didn't seem to
Speaker 1: have the same resonance as this one murder. Maybe because
Speaker 1: it was on TV, maybe everybody saw it, Maybe because
Speaker 1: people saw it was so ridiculous the way it was handled.
Speaker 1: But we've made some progress obviously on racial relations. And
Speaker 1: I'd say in the book that while we've made a
Speaker 1: lot of progress, on racial relations and and and gender
Speaker 1: equality and other things. We still have a long way
Speaker 1: to go. The rhetoric that is in the Declaration of
Speaker 1: Independence and the rhetoric in the Constitution is wonderful. What
Speaker 1: we've been spending two thirty years trying to live up
Speaker 1: to that rhetoric, and to some extent we've made progress,
Speaker 1: and some extent we haven't. And what I say in
Speaker 1: the book is that we have these genes, these gene
Speaker 1: is are part of us, the belief and the rule
Speaker 1: of law, the belief in equality, belief in the power
Speaker 1: of voting. And we've been trying to make sure that
Speaker 1: people um kind of honor these things that are part
Speaker 1: of our genes. And sometimes we do and sometimes we don't.
Speaker 1: The rule of law is a gene that's so strong
Speaker 1: that it prevailed in the January sixth situation and and
Speaker 1: the and the post election fight. And I think that
Speaker 1: was good in many other countries. And you've had a
Speaker 1: leader of do what was done here. I think you
Speaker 1: could have had a military takeover. Yeah, it could have
Speaker 1: been much closer. I I wonder, David, about this sense
Speaker 1: of optimism that you have potentially after writing a book
Speaker 1: like this. I do think there is this collective despair
Speaker 1: over the last eighteen nineteen months as this pandemic is
Speaker 1: played out and we try to get to the other
Speaker 1: side of it. And here we are sandwiched between extreme
Speaker 1: weather events. You know that they're affecting the entire country,
Speaker 1: whether it's drought or hurricane or fires. Uh, trying to
Speaker 1: get our kids back to school. After writing this book
Speaker 1: and speaking to these people and looking so closely at
Speaker 1: the history of the United States, are you optimistic? I
Speaker 1: think most people who are asked that question will say yes,
Speaker 1: because nobody wants to say no, I'm pessimistic. It sounds
Speaker 1: bad to say I'm pessimistic, and I'd be lying. If
Speaker 1: I said I was pessimistic. It might make news to
Speaker 1: say I'm pessimistic. I am optimistic about many things. The
Speaker 1: young people are so creative. We are solving some problems
Speaker 1: like global climate change. We're working on some things. Racial
Speaker 1: relations are getting better than not perfect. But uh, if
Speaker 1: you weren't optimistic, you'd be hard to get through life.
Speaker 1: If every day you were so depressed you couldn't get
Speaker 1: through life, you know, what would you do? So I'm
Speaker 1: optimistic and I've had been fortunate in my life to
Speaker 1: be be able to be optimistic because of good things
Speaker 1: that happened to me. But generally I'm reasonably optimistic. I've
Speaker 1: just been worried about some things that we could solve
Speaker 1: that we don't seem to be solving as quickly as
Speaker 1: I wish we would. Let's talk about some of the
Speaker 1: conversations ken Burns, Medline, Albright, Um, juliep Or who I
Speaker 1: don't know is necessarily a household name, Um Alter, Isaacson,
Speaker 1: David McCullough, some of the things Rita Morano, Um, some
Speaker 1: of the conversations that stood out. And obviously they talked
Speaker 1: about very different topics, the different topics of thread. But
Speaker 1: I guess well, ken Burns talked about Vietnam. And it
Speaker 1: turns out in Vietnam, the political leaders knew all along.
Speaker 1: They knew all along that we had no chance of
Speaker 1: winning that war military. It was really a political um exercise,
Speaker 1: which was disappointed because we lost fifty eight thousand men
Speaker 1: and the Vietnamese lost millions of people. UM. David McCulloch
Speaker 1: did a wonderful job of explaining how nobody took the
Speaker 1: right brother seriously in this country. They had to go
Speaker 1: to France to kind of prove um that they could
Speaker 1: they could they could fly. Another reason why we love France, right, UM.
Speaker 1: You know, so Rita Moreno is an incredible story and
Speaker 1: a woman from Puerto Rico who was not taken that
Speaker 1: seriously as an actress because she was from Puerto Rico,
Speaker 1: she was given kind of Latino Latino jobs, but she
Speaker 1: turned out to be an Academy Award winner and she
Speaker 1: had an interesting life. She lived with um, a very
Speaker 1: famous person for quite some time, Marlon Brando and I
Speaker 1: think eight years or so, and then try to commit
Speaker 1: suicide because he was unfaithful. And then she recovered from
Speaker 1: that and obviously went on to now win an Emmy,
Speaker 1: a Grammy, uh, every other word Tony that you can win.
Speaker 1: So she's um quite impressive her and now we're still
Speaker 1: performing at A eighty nine. She was at our Boston
Speaker 1: Pops event and she's a spitfire. Got to meet her
Speaker 1: and she's unbelievable in terms of her energy. You also
Speaker 1: talked with m Walter Isaacson, and I think innovation is
Speaker 1: something we spend a lot of time here, uh talking
Speaker 1: about around the table. And you know that governments, the
Speaker 1: complicated relationship really between governments and innovation. We're seeing it
Speaker 1: once again. What did you glean from that conversation? Walter
Speaker 1: points out in his book really focus on the Innovators,
Speaker 1: a book right before the Codebreakers. Codebreakers, a new book
Speaker 1: about a woman that won the Nobel Prize for effect
Speaker 1: discovering crisper Um. And and that's a great book as well.
Speaker 1: But but the Innovators is about all the people that
Speaker 1: have changed our lives. Who invented the micro processor, that transistor,
Speaker 1: the smartphone, the internet, all the things. How could we
Speaker 1: live today without the internet? How could we live today
Speaker 1: without smartphones? All these things? But now these all came
Speaker 1: about because of smart people doing things that people said
Speaker 1: couldn't be done. And Typic as part of the teams.
Speaker 1: There are very few geniuses. They're discovering things by themselves,
Speaker 1: he points out. Usually it's a person working with somebody else,
Speaker 1: and usually they're building on some something that somebody else
Speaker 1: actually did before them. But the most important thing is
Speaker 1: our country has been a country where we've been strong
Speaker 1: because of innovation. We are the country that innovates. We're
Speaker 1: reinventing ourselves all the time. Why aren't people in Europe
Speaker 1: inventing great companies. Like with companies we have, you don't
Speaker 1: see as much in Europe or in other parts of
Speaker 1: the world as we have been seeing here right now.
Speaker 1: The technology that's dominating the world, certainly outside of China
Speaker 1: is American technology Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Um, all these
Speaker 1: companies are American companies. Why don't we aren't we dominated
Speaker 1: by European technology companies or Middle East technology companies? Because
Speaker 1: Americans have innovative style and we really incent people to
Speaker 1: do things innovative here. Wait, I gotta follow, So what
Speaker 1: do you think about what's going on in China right
Speaker 1: now in terms of really clamping down It feels like
Speaker 1: any innovators well in China, I think what's going on
Speaker 1: is the Chinese government is trying to make it clear
Speaker 1: to everybody that we, the government, are the most important
Speaker 1: thing and not the innovators. And so I think there's
Speaker 1: a concern that sometimes you get entrepreneurs whore worth a
Speaker 1: lot of money there, their cult figures themselves jack Ma
Speaker 1: on the equivalent, and they kind of rival the government leaders,
Speaker 1: and the government doesn't think that's appropriate. So the government
Speaker 1: is doing some things to constrain this. We'll see whether
Speaker 1: the impact is to have people not be quite as innovative,
Speaker 1: or whether people will try to take more money offshore,
Speaker 1: or or or entrepreneurs will come to this country and
Speaker 1: not go back to China. You don't know yet. Will
Speaker 1: it prevent those China? And we're talking, of course, with
Speaker 1: David Rubinstein, his new book is The American Experiment, also
Speaker 1: host of Bloomberg Wealth here at Bloomberg Radio and TV
Speaker 1: and co chair co founder of the Carlisle Group. But
Speaker 1: it's interesting, David, do you think it will prevent China
Speaker 1: from being um kind of a global presence when it
Speaker 1: comes to innovative technologies, which is what President Gas said
Speaker 1: he wants to be. It may have some impact, but
Speaker 1: right now, for example, what is up in the air
Speaker 1: is who is going to dominate technology and the around
Speaker 1: the world of the next ten years. Is it going
Speaker 1: to be the American technology companies or is it going
Speaker 1: to be Chinese trying right now, the Chinese technology companies
Speaker 1: have largely been successful in China. Google and Facebook really
Speaker 1: don't quite operate in China. They have their own equivalent there.
Speaker 1: But have China been able to take Alie pay Uh
Speaker 1: and financial um or Ali Baba outside of China that much,
Speaker 1: not so much, or the same with Bai Do. Now
Speaker 1: the only one that's really become a major force outside
Speaker 1: of China is Byte Dance, which has TikTok, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't operate all in China. It really operates outside. But
Speaker 1: over the next ten twenty years, twenty or thirty years
Speaker 1: or so, there will be an effort by the Chinese
Speaker 1: to say, let's take our technology companies and use them
Speaker 1: in Europe, Latin America, the Middle East, and who will
Speaker 1: dominate what we have two internets or we just have
Speaker 1: one internet and and it's not clear to the extent
Speaker 1: that we weaken our technology companies in this country. It
Speaker 1: may be that we won't be dominant around the world
Speaker 1: as much as we have been. But you think about it.
Speaker 1: You go anywhere in the world now you can turn,
Speaker 1: you can use Google, you can use Facebook. You can't
Speaker 1: go use Bai Do or or Alie pay anywhere in
Speaker 1: the world. That may change unless you're in a part
Speaker 1: of nowhere, one of the blocked uh David, given what's
Speaker 1: happened in China over the last few months, would you
Speaker 1: be hesitant to deploy capital there to to invest there
Speaker 1: at least for the near future. I am an investor
Speaker 1: in China, have been a long term investor there my
Speaker 1: firm UM as an investor there. I personally invested there UM,
Speaker 1: but without thinking forward over the next few years. Given
Speaker 1: what's happened over the last few months, there clearly are
Speaker 1: going to be some constraints on growth and valuation. So,
Speaker 1: for example, UM many of the companies that have had
Speaker 1: some constraints the financial transaction is one and where the
Speaker 1: valuations come down because they're not going to go public
Speaker 1: quite as quickly as they were going to. I still
Speaker 1: think though, you've got a population of one point three
Speaker 1: billion people and a gigantic market, the biggest market in
Speaker 1: the world, and the country is becoming increasingly wealthy, and
Speaker 1: therefore people are recently spending money. We operate a number
Speaker 1: of companies there. We operate with our Chinese partners and
Speaker 1: McDonald's in in uh in China, and clearly that's a
Speaker 1: growing business doing well. So I wouldn't be hesitant to
Speaker 1: invest in China. I just be hesitant to do things
Speaker 1: that the government isn't gonna really like. You've got to
Speaker 1: be very careful and make sure you know what the
Speaker 1: government will tolerate and not the book At the very
Speaker 1: beginning you include the preamble to the Constitution. If you
Speaker 1: could sit down with a forefather today, who would it
Speaker 1: be and what would you want to know? Well? I
Speaker 1: waits that one second. I would just say that, interestingly,
Speaker 1: we had white Christian property owners men who are founding fathers, right,
Speaker 1: if we had a new constitutional declaration independence, who would
Speaker 1: those people be? It wouldn't be all white men right
Speaker 1: or property. We'd have presumably women, We'd have minorities. Would
Speaker 1: we get a different constitution? Will we get a different
Speaker 1: declaration independence? Probably would Um. If I can have dinner
Speaker 1: with any one of those founding fathers, I guess it
Speaker 1: would be Thomas Jefferson, just because his rhetoric is writing
Speaker 1: style is so wonderful, And I'd ask him how come
Speaker 1: you never made a speech as presidently made one public speech.
Speaker 1: If you asked, uh Water Risings, he would say he'd
Speaker 1: like to have all the people he's written about, he'd
Speaker 1: like to have dinner. I think he would say with
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin, because he's so creative and so brilliant, so
Speaker 1: many ways uneducated by traditional standards, but now any have
Speaker 1: I think if I could have dinner with anybody that's
Speaker 1: ever lived and aman who's an American not currently live,
Speaker 1: it would be, without doubt, Abraham Lincoln. It might be
Speaker 1: the greatest American of them all. Kept the Union together, Uh,
Speaker 1: freed the slaves, though not as quickly as some people
Speaker 1: would want it. But he was an incredible person, writer,
Speaker 1: credit speaker, and and I just like to ask him
Speaker 1: this a lot of questions. And it's interesting phenomenon. You
Speaker 1: and you and I are all in the interview business.
Speaker 1: And this is a business where it's just rebalytively common.
Speaker 1: Now it's not unique to be an interviewer. Right, lots
Speaker 1: of people. You know, everybody has a podcast. I think
Speaker 1: there should be a bumper secret and says if you
Speaker 1: don't have a podcast. Everybody kept their own podcast, everybody
Speaker 1: got there on TV show, everybody's got their own radio show.
Speaker 1: But this is relatively new. For most of organized history,
Speaker 1: there were no interviews. So we have no interviews of Shakespeare,
Speaker 1: we have no interviews in Crea Patrick, we have no
Speaker 1: interviews of Abraham Lincoln, George Washington. I wish we could
Speaker 1: go back and interview them. I thought about doing a
Speaker 1: book interviewing what these people would have said if I'd
Speaker 1: interviewed him, that's a great idea. So I got to
Speaker 1: say to William Shakespeare, No, will Um, why do you
Speaker 1: think it is that people think you didn't write these plays?
Speaker 1: Or did you really write these plays? That's the truth?
Speaker 1: Or Cleopatra? Who was a better love with Mark Anthony
Speaker 1: or Julius Caesar when you land these interviews? Yea, for
Speaker 1: Henry the Eighth, why why didn't you just get a
Speaker 1: prenup instead of chopping off the head of your wives.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of great questions we went. We want
Speaker 1: to know the answers to number four. You did get
Speaker 1: some fantastic names for for this book, you know, including
Speaker 1: Ken Burns as we talked about, Matlin, Albred, John meetch Um,
Speaker 1: Billy Jean King. Uh. Who did you reach out to
Speaker 1: that you couldn't get? Who said, I'm sorry? Who's this?
Speaker 1: David Rubinstein? I don't have time kidding? No, Look, some
Speaker 1: people do not like to do interviews, and some people
Speaker 1: are more more complicated to get a hold up and
Speaker 1: so forth. So I um on this particular book, I
Speaker 1: have not interestmented so did this way. I have not
Speaker 1: yet interviewed Elon Musk, I'd like to do that. Um.
Speaker 1: Water Isaacson is writing a book about him, and that
Speaker 1: presumably will be the source of a lot of information
Speaker 1: on Twitter. A few weeks ago left talking about that.
Speaker 1: I talked to Water about it and he's very happy
Speaker 1: spending time with him now. And Ellen is Uh, I
Speaker 1: won't give away all this, all the stories there, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be. It's gonna happen absolutely, um, And I would
Speaker 1: say that, Uh, I'd like to interview I have an
Speaker 1: interview Mark Zuckerberg. I'm on a board with him in China.
Speaker 1: I've been there when we talked to him a couple
Speaker 1: of times, but I haven't really interviewed him, and I
Speaker 1: think that'd be interesting. I had a chance to invest
Speaker 1: in that company when my son in law to be
Speaker 1: was at Harvard and he said investment company. I said,
Speaker 1: it's a dating service, and dating service never get anywhere.
Speaker 1: That was thirteen billion dollars ago. Is there a woman
Speaker 1: that you haven't talked to you that you would like
Speaker 1: to talk to? Well, Queen Elizabeth doesn't do interviews, UM,
Speaker 1: so I think that's probably not gonna happen. But I
Speaker 1: would say I have not interviewed Uh, Mrs Obama, I've
Speaker 1: met her many times, I haven't interviewed her. You should
Speaker 1: be very good as an interviewee. I have interviewed Melinda Gates. Uh.
Speaker 1: I've interviewed many business leaders for prominent women. Uh and
Speaker 1: in scott have you thought about I have met her,
Speaker 1: but I don't haven't interviewed I. I haven't actually asked
Speaker 1: her yet. I don't. I think she's relatively shy and
Speaker 1: doesn't seek publicity as the way she's doing it. But
Speaker 1: if she's watching or listening right now, I'm ready to
Speaker 1: come out Seattle tomorrow and do that interview because she's
Speaker 1: doing some really good things in philanthropy and really turned
Speaker 1: the world upside down by doing it fast, doing it
Speaker 1: very differently than how a lot of other people have
Speaker 1: done it for a long time. Yes, and uh, I
Speaker 1: mean she's got I think she was given thirty four
Speaker 1: billion dollars and now it's probably worth seventy five billions,
Speaker 1: So she's got a lot of money. We have three
Speaker 1: minutes left. Please don't go anywhere, No, just stay forever. Um.
Speaker 1: The investment environment, I don't know whether it's back, whether
Speaker 1: it's crypto. What's interesting to you right now? Well, clearly
Speaker 1: crypto is something that gets a lot of attention. It's
Speaker 1: amazing how many people are interested in crypto. Are you
Speaker 1: invested in crypto in any way? I have not invested
Speaker 1: in crypto currencies myself. I have invested in some companies
Speaker 1: that kind of service the industry. And my standard view
Speaker 1: on crypto is when you go to Las Vegas, most
Speaker 1: people smart to know you're not gonna win there, maybe
Speaker 1: spend more time there. You're certainly not gonna win, but
Speaker 1: you enjoy it. You have the pleasure of gambling, so
Speaker 1: you pick one or two percent of your net worth
Speaker 1: and do that. Well, the same is true in crypto.
Speaker 1: Crypto you want to speculate, you don't really know that
Speaker 1: much about it. Try it one or two or three percent.
Speaker 1: It's not harmful and you'll probably have enjoyable time. Perhaps.
Speaker 1: I interviewed for my my show on Bloomberg John Paulson recently,
Speaker 1: and he is dead set against it. He just said,
Speaker 1: this is terrible and it's going to zero. And but
Speaker 1: on the other hand, I've interviewed some other people that
Speaker 1: will come out soon who are gonna be saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I think it's a way to make a lot of money.
Speaker 1: There's one personal I be interviewing soon. Who's who's made
Speaker 1: billions of dollars in crypto? What about when it comes
Speaker 1: to SPACs and where we are in this cycle with spacks?
Speaker 1: Are they here to stay? And look, spacts aren't anything new,
Speaker 1: They're just having a moment right now. SPACs are not
Speaker 1: going away. Um. But you have to be wary of
Speaker 1: what you're doing. You have to know what you're really doing.
Speaker 1: So spacts are a way to accelerate an I p
Speaker 1: O process And right now it's harder to raise money
Speaker 1: for SPACs and not just a spack money. There are
Speaker 1: two types of money yet you have to really raise.
Speaker 1: You raise the riditional money for the SPAC, but then
Speaker 1: you raise money that's called a pre I p O money,
Speaker 1: which is the money to help you get public um
Speaker 1: or help the public evaluation, uh state of what you
Speaker 1: think it should be. And uh, it's harder to raise
Speaker 1: that money right now. A lot of somebody is raising
Speaker 1: I think it's Apollo is raising a fund to invest
Speaker 1: in the SPACs that aren't doing so well and to
Speaker 1: try them on the cheap, which is an idea that
Speaker 1: I think is probably has some merit we've already gone
Speaker 1: to distress SPACs. UM, thirty seconds left here? What do
Speaker 1: you think will be the next Grand American experiment? Just quickly? Well,
Speaker 1: the next experiment that I think we'll see UM. I
Speaker 1: think probably we're going to see UM at some point.
Speaker 1: I hope UM greater cooperation between the Republicans and Democratic
Speaker 1: parties when we have some crisis that really unites them
Speaker 1: in ways that we haven't really truly been united since
Speaker 1: nine eleven. Now we're getting ready to celebrate or mark
Speaker 1: I shouldn't I celebrate than theversary nine eleven. UM, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do at the Kenny Center on the chairman of
Speaker 1: Kenny Center. We're gonna have an event doing that and
Speaker 1: thanking our military people, but also thinking the healthcare workers.
Speaker 1: We've got us through this more tweetent a period of time.
Speaker 1: We thank you, Thank you very much for having so much.
Speaker 1: David Rubinstein, of course, co founder, co chair of the
Speaker 1: Carlisle Group. His latest book, The American Experiment, Dialogues on
Speaker 1: a Dream. Do check it out. It's a great Still summer.
Speaker 1: It is still summer. Everyone still summer. Read this is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm grom a journal Yeah, but you let
Speaker 1: me drive. Oh no, no, no, no's d honn please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the right drivel. I want to drive all
Speaker 1: Just drive baby. The question driving. This is the drive
Speaker 1: to the globe. Give me thanks, we'll dry up. Dawn
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. All right, yeah, just about eleven and
Speaker 1: a happen. It's good to go until we wrap up
Speaker 1: the Thursday tree eating day. Definitely wrapping around, Charlie, noting
Speaker 1: that we're well well off our highs of the session. Tim, Oh, well,
Speaker 1: well I should turn my microphone on. How's that. It's
Speaker 1: been a crazy day. Maybe the producers are trying to
Speaker 1: send me a signal. Stan you're talking too much. Well,
Speaker 1: let's get to the drive to the clothes. Aaron again
Speaker 1: and as co founder and CEO of Clear Harbor Asset Management,
Speaker 1: with assets under management more than one billion dollars, it
Speaker 1: joins us once again on the phone from Stanford, Connecticut.
Speaker 1: A great to have you back on the show. How
Speaker 1: are you doing doing just fine? Hey? Help us make
Speaker 1: sense of yeah, yeah, we are doing in Yeah, thank
Speaker 1: you for saying that. Um, it's been a challenging twenty
Speaker 1: four hours in the Tri State areas, certainly for for
Speaker 1: for many of our our friends and colleagues, we're thinking
Speaker 1: to them. Um, Aaron, I want you to take us
Speaker 1: into today's trade ahead of the jobs report. Um, it
Speaker 1: does seem like investors are kind of stepping back and
Speaker 1: and certainly looking to what happens tomorrow. Um, what are
Speaker 1: you looking for? Well, you know, clearly there's a big
Speaker 1: question around the jectory of employment. But I also think
Speaker 1: that we've just gone through a very strong earning season.
Speaker 1: We've had the majority of companies experiencing robust stop and
Speaker 1: bottom line growth, and markets are sort of at all
Speaker 1: time highs, at least the SMP five hundred, that is,
Speaker 1: And so I think there's some indigestion clearly in the market,
Speaker 1: but there's also sort of a forward looking process that
Speaker 1: everyone is undertaking right now, not only as it pertains
Speaker 1: to the data tomorrow, which is important and could weigh
Speaker 1: on the FETs thinking in September, but as it pertains
Speaker 1: to growth and and our expectation is that growth is
Speaker 1: going to continue to decelerate from very lofty levels, and
Speaker 1: that the bond market has you know, really sniffed this
Speaker 1: out many months ago, back starting in March, when when
Speaker 1: yields peaked and Uh. And I think there's a concern
Speaker 1: that as as growth decelerates, so goes the market. But
Speaker 1: I'd also push a little bit back on on that
Speaker 1: sort of prevailing view um our. Our thought is that
Speaker 1: we've already seen a significant rotation within the equity market
Speaker 1: out of sort of that process equocal move that we
Speaker 1: started to see back in mid June and play itself
Speaker 1: out when oil peaked to a more growth posture going
Speaker 1: into the non farm payrolls on Friday. You know what's
Speaker 1: interesting is I like what you said about indigestion in
Speaker 1: the market, because it does certainly feel that way. At
Speaker 1: the same time, the world is a wash in liquidity,
Speaker 1: and our gena Martin Adams comes on consistently and says
Speaker 1: that money's got to go somewhere, and and you increasingly
Speaker 1: see it or continually see it go into the U
Speaker 1: S equity market because again, the US economy has certainly
Speaker 1: bounced back first. Uh, if you compare it to the
Speaker 1: rest of the developed markets. Uh. And that's where investors
Speaker 1: seem to be continuing to place the bets. And I
Speaker 1: guess right now we have to figure out how long
Speaker 1: that kind of trade also continues, right, Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think as growth does decelerate, that trend towards growth equities
Speaker 1: and perhaps more defensive segments of the equity market like healthcare,
Speaker 1: UM could could still accrue to the US market perhaps
Speaker 1: more than the UM the international developed markets. If you
Speaker 1: just look at the sort of constituencies of those markets.
Speaker 1: We have more tech than than for example, of the Eurozone,
Speaker 1: and so UM if that trend prevails, it could just
Speaker 1: sort of accrue to the to the US marketplace. But UM.
Speaker 1: I also think that sometimes not making a big bet
Speaker 1: on cyclical versus growth is not a bad idea from
Speaker 1: time to time, and this may be that moment. You know,
Speaker 1: we've already had this sort of front half of two
Speaker 1: thousand and twenty one, massive cyclical move higher oil, industrials, materials,
Speaker 1: banks all t outperforming the technology sector for example, consumer
Speaker 1: discretionary and communications, and in the last two and a
Speaker 1: half months we've seen the opposite play out. In the
Speaker 1: back half of this year, I think maybe one where
Speaker 1: we continue to see that trend, but it will not
Speaker 1: be as as robust is just the last couple of months,
Speaker 1: But that's to be expected to be fair. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're only kind of came out with UM some expectations.
Speaker 1: Talking about the U S slow down the third quarter,
Speaker 1: I mean that is to be expected compared to write
Speaker 1: because the dynamic crazy numbers of growth have happened as
Speaker 1: we have we bounced back from the pandemic. And I'm
Speaker 1: sorry Tim forgetting but I mean right that. I mean
Speaker 1: it's kind of playing out like we expected in many ways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if you if we were talking a month ago,
Speaker 1: UM q Q three growth was probably one percentage point
Speaker 1: higher than it is right now on expectations, and so
Speaker 1: they've come down even further. UM. And the question is
Speaker 1: will we continue to see a ratcheting down and growth expectations? UM?
Speaker 1: I I suspect we we could. We saw the I
Speaker 1: S M data, UM, you know disappoint We're seeing growth
Speaker 1: slow in China, both sort of export driven growth as
Speaker 1: well as consumer driven growth. In fact, there is a
Speaker 1: belief that the central bank wouldn't wouldn't be moving to
Speaker 1: sort of shore up their currency, and and now there
Speaker 1: there's a belief that central bank will be you know,
Speaker 1: much more you know, incrementally duvish. So UM. That has
Speaker 1: huge implications for global currencies as well as equit markets.
Speaker 1: How are you deploying tapitle right now, how are you
Speaker 1: putting money to work from clients? Good, good question. UM.
Speaker 1: Every one of our clients has a different sort of
Speaker 1: risk profile, a different objective, UM, different duration as well,
Speaker 1: depending on whether or not there a non for profit
Speaker 1: organization or an elderly couple or a young professional. And
Speaker 1: so we really take all of that into account UM
Speaker 1: in trying to sort of structure portfolios, and so equities
Speaker 1: tend tend to be at this sort of core of
Speaker 1: of a portfolio. But we also believe in the idea
Speaker 1: of allocating for particular clients that you know are averse
Speaker 1: to having portfolio volatility to to the extreme, allocate to
Speaker 1: antifragile assets or assets that can uh sometimes buttress a
Speaker 1: portfolio when the economy and the equity markets are not
Speaker 1: performing well. So that could, depending on the moment in time,
Speaker 1: include gold, it could include components of the fixed income
Speaker 1: market like longer duration or short duration treasuries, as well
Speaker 1: as investment grade credit mortgages. So our view is that
Speaker 1: UM treasury still have a role in a multi asset
Speaker 1: class portfolio, even though they are unfortunately yielding a negative
Speaker 1: level at the moment. So, for example, tomorrow's non fund
Speaker 1: Parallels report comes in and it's a two hundred thousand. Uh,
Speaker 1: We're not so sure the equity market behaves all that
Speaker 1: well tomorrow under that scenario. That would be so weak
Speaker 1: is the estimate from according to right. So if it
Speaker 1: was an extraordinarily weak number, um, it could. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: this is how counterintuitive the market is today though. But
Speaker 1: in theory, um, there could be some market indigestion there.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, we could see the long
Speaker 1: dated segment of the treasure market rally, and that could
Speaker 1: also afford the FED to be even more dubbish. So
Speaker 1: then you know, we could we could we could see
Speaker 1: equities in fact rally on the heels of extraordinarily weak
Speaker 1: economic data. Right. So it's just an interesting time to
Speaker 1: be an acid all acid allocation. It's that market. It's
Speaker 1: that movie we saw for a long time. I feel
Speaker 1: like Aaron. After the financial crisis, bad news was good news.
Speaker 1: It meant the FED was going to stay easy for longer. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so um, you know I always think about this
Speaker 1: with it with the economic means, at some point we
Speaker 1: want the economy to get back to normal. Normal is good. Um.
Speaker 1: But but the investment markets don't always see it that way, right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and you know, we do see opportunities within within equities
Speaker 1: across multiple sectors. But you know, whether it's artificial intelligence
Speaker 1: or the renewable sector or the economy, water utilities look
Speaker 1: still look extraordinarily interesting to us. Um you know, they're
Speaker 1: they're they're just you know, still wonderful companies in the
Speaker 1: midst of a market that's trading at twenty times forward
Speaker 1: multiple and doesn't look seemingly attractive, that are continuing to
Speaker 1: grow at um you know, revenue growth on an annualized basis,
Speaker 1: and in the question of course, comes down to price.
Speaker 1: All right, we gotta run. Hey, Aaron, have a good
Speaker 1: holiday weekend. Aaron Kennon, co founder CEO of Clear Harbor
Speaker 1: asset management of a billion in assets under management, on
Speaker 1: the phone from Stanford, Connecticut. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg
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