Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into the All Ball Podcast. Boy Doug Gottlieb
Speaker 1: here and Man, We're gonna have a two part pop
Speaker 1: and I'll talk a little bit about my recruitment UMU.
Speaker 1: During the pod, we'll talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: I gotta do an NBA preview. Like man, we just
Speaker 1: get these great interviews and have these great talks, So
Speaker 1: I want to do all of that. But first I
Speaker 1: wanted to catch up with Dan dick out. Dan obviously
Speaker 1: was was college basketball play of the year play in
Speaker 1: the NBA. But in this pod, we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: him as a kid growing up in Portland and then
Speaker 1: in Vancouver, Washington, Vancouver just Overwhell. Let's let you tell
Speaker 1: him where exactly it is, what what motivated him? Who
Speaker 1: did he idolize? How did he make himself in to
Speaker 1: the player he became in. Why did you choose the
Speaker 1: University of Washington. I know there's actually a lot of
Speaker 1: people that are probably listening to podcast, like, no, Dan
Speaker 1: dick I went to Gonzaga, and he transferred to Gonzaga
Speaker 1: after playing a year and a half at Washington like
Speaker 1: he yes, but Washington and Gonzaga was not It was
Speaker 1: not his dream schools. There's an interesting tie that binds
Speaker 1: the two of us that I will get to. I'll
Speaker 1: get to, um, including guys I was recruited by his
Speaker 1: dream school nearly went there. It was like, tell him
Speaker 1: I didn't, He'll tell me why he didn't go to
Speaker 1: that same school and then and then he went to what. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch to get to. So you're really going
Speaker 1: to enjoy this without further ado, my guy, Dann dick out. So, UM,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, fascinating to catch up with you on this level,
Speaker 1: because yeah, I would love to talk about current ZAG
Speaker 1: hoops right and Zag's Iowa this weekend and we'll try
Speaker 1: and get to that. But like, I feel like you
Speaker 1: were Tebow before Tebow. And and I don't mean that
Speaker 1: from a religious background. I mean it in terms of
Speaker 1: like a a cult following where like every white kid
Speaker 1: was like every white dad and there was like, man,
Speaker 1: you can dick out. That's the dude, Like if he
Speaker 1: can be National Player of the Year, you can too.
Speaker 1: You're you started playing basketball where you know that's uh,
Speaker 1: that's a funny comment. And and actually I appreciate that
Speaker 1: I've heard that from a number of coaches you know,
Speaker 1: about five six years after I was done at Gonzaga
Speaker 1: that every kid they recruited or an AU coach thought
Speaker 1: they had a kid to recruit had the long floppy hair,
Speaker 1: and my name was thrown out there. So it brings
Speaker 1: back some interesting and unique and fun memories, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: But I started playing basketball. I was born in Portland.
Speaker 1: I moved to Vancouver when I was in second grade
Speaker 1: with my family, but I remember in Portland's um. I
Speaker 1: actually had three hoops at my house as a little kid.
Speaker 1: In our basement, I had a hoop that was probably
Speaker 1: you know, like it wasn't one of those plastic little
Speaker 1: type coops, but it was. It was a hoop that
Speaker 1: went up on the wall, you know, probably no higher
Speaker 1: than than six ft in. My parents used to say
Speaker 1: I would be down there for hours on end, even
Speaker 1: when I was four or five years old. And then
Speaker 1: we also had a hoop on our driveway that was
Speaker 1: ten ft um in Portland. And then in our backyard
Speaker 1: we had a tree and we had a backboard with
Speaker 1: a rim on the tree. So as as a kid
Speaker 1: in Portland, I had three different hoops to choose from.
Speaker 1: But I didn't play on an organized basketball team until
Speaker 1: we moved to Vancouver in the second grade. But back then,
Speaker 1: the y m c A only started teams in third grade.
Speaker 1: So third grade was the first time I was on
Speaker 1: a on an organized team. And I think that's something
Speaker 1: that's so important. I see AU team starting at like
Speaker 1: fifth sixth grade now, and they're traveling across the country.
Speaker 1: It's like, you don't even know how to jump stop,
Speaker 1: you don't know how to screen, you don't know how
Speaker 1: you don't know how to pass. It's uh, it's become
Speaker 1: a completely different, uh set up. But that's a that's
Speaker 1: a whole another conversation for that that could honestly, like
Speaker 1: just so you know, so it's it's fascinating because so
Speaker 1: I'm coaching my son in an AU program and and
Speaker 1: you know, my dad did it, you know, for us.
Speaker 1: And he came when he got fired in college, he
Speaker 1: went up to Oregon State for a year. He came back,
Speaker 1: he was doing some scouting, he was coaching some minor
Speaker 1: league stuff, and he started at a necessity for my brother,
Speaker 1: and then he would coach like high level high school
Speaker 1: like back then was travel ball teams, right and anyway,
Speaker 1: So when I moved back and my son was, you know,
Speaker 1: third grade. I took him to a fourth and fifth
Speaker 1: grade workout and I had the exact same thought where
Speaker 1: I'm watching and I thought that the workouts were good.
Speaker 1: I just thought that way we we for you like
Speaker 1: skip things like, hey, they don't know how to jump stop. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, they don't actually know all the rules of basketball,
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of things they don't know that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's because, you know, basketball
Speaker 1: camps back then were more teaching warrented. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's as we watched games more on TV, Like
Speaker 1: do kids watch TV? Yes, but they watched a lot
Speaker 1: of YouTube, and they watched a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: highlight reels on I G right and snap and these
Speaker 1: other things where there are no jump stop videos on
Speaker 1: YouTube that have a million downloads. Right, but but but
Speaker 1: last I checked, you can't make all these plays if
Speaker 1: you travel every time we get the ball. So it's
Speaker 1: a fascinating experience. And then what I've found is that
Speaker 1: the right parents that get it, they end up gravitating more,
Speaker 1: at least in the current moment. I may have another
Speaker 1: pod with you. They're like, wow, wait, you actually coach them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you actually make them running offense, like, yeah, we're playing
Speaker 1: We're not playing zone, dude, We're not We're not doing that.
Speaker 1: We got to teach you how to guard guard your
Speaker 1: man and how to help and how to position your
Speaker 1: feet properly and all these things. And it might get
Speaker 1: us beat because you're not as athletic as another duo.
Speaker 1: But that's okay. It's a it's a marathon, not not
Speaker 1: a sprint. I want to go to Okay. So, Vancouver, Washington,
Speaker 1: right is right on the border of Oregon. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: if you've you've flown into Portland many times, I'm sure, right, Doug.
Speaker 1: So the Columbia rivers right there. The bridge that you
Speaker 1: see when you land at the airport that takes you
Speaker 1: to Vancouver. So, uh, you go north from the airport,
Speaker 1: you're in Vancouver, Washington, and you go south you get
Speaker 1: into the heart of Portland. And so, you know, I
Speaker 1: grew up. When we moved to Vancouver, we were fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes away from from the Rose Garden. They call it
Speaker 1: the Motor Center. Now I never will call it that.
Speaker 1: It's it's the Rose Garden, sure, so um, but it's
Speaker 1: it's it's fashionating because that's been like a little well
Speaker 1: spring of especially Gonzaga players. But it's a good little best.
Speaker 1: But was your dad a hooper? Like what was you
Speaker 1: had three hoops up that he just loved it or
Speaker 1: what was it? No, my dad was actually uh a
Speaker 1: golf teaching professional, um before he got into pharmaceutical sales
Speaker 1: when when I was, right before I was born. Um,
Speaker 1: so there there was some athleticism there. He hand eye
Speaker 1: coordinates and he liked basketball, but he didn't play at
Speaker 1: any high level. Um. But you know, I think, as
Speaker 1: with any kid that ends up having some success in
Speaker 1: in any sport or even any endeavor, if whether it's
Speaker 1: you know, another hobby, you gotta you have to love
Speaker 1: it on your own and you have to be passionate
Speaker 1: enough and driven enough to just spend countless hours on
Speaker 1: your own doing it until you perfect different things. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's something that I was always willing to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I never had video games system growing up.
Speaker 1: I think the first time I actually had a video
Speaker 1: game system was an Xbox when I was at college
Speaker 1: at the University of Washington. Um that it wasn't even mine,
Speaker 1: it was my roommates. And I thought It was the
Speaker 1: coolest thing because that was back when college players they
Speaker 1: had the college Game, but they couldn't use your name,
Speaker 1: but you had the number and it looked exactly like you.
Speaker 1: And I thought that was the coolest thing that I
Speaker 1: was on the game. Yeah, I was black, actually couldn't shoot,
Speaker 1: which was accurate, right, I was black, super fast, really past,
Speaker 1: but I could, but I was I was they changed
Speaker 1: by race, which I'm actually actually really kind of good with, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's that that that I don't take that as
Speaker 1: a negative in in any way. Um, it's fat So okay.
Speaker 1: I grew up shooting hoops at Garrett Phipps's house, So
Speaker 1: I grew up in its. Six years old, we moved
Speaker 1: to Orange, California, and our driveway was slanted, and so
Speaker 1: back then you didn't have the portable goals, right, you couldn't.
Speaker 1: By the time I was in high school, we had
Speaker 1: one on the sidewalk that you could shoot in the street.
Speaker 1: But as a kid, they didn't have those. So I
Speaker 1: actually never had a hoop in my driveway. Ever. I
Speaker 1: had to go like six doors down and here the kid,
Speaker 1: Garrett was my brother's age, and he had a flat
Speaker 1: driveway and so I go and I just asked his
Speaker 1: parents for my somebody asked his parents when I was
Speaker 1: really little, like he likes to come shoot. It's the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. And I used to play imaginary games
Speaker 1: just all afternoon. I would do I would be the
Speaker 1: announcer and the player. I would announce the game as
Speaker 1: I play, or I I had introduced myself and I
Speaker 1: do high fives with all the plants on the way
Speaker 1: down to Garrett's house and I go and shoot. And
Speaker 1: then my my brother, who of course has been an
Speaker 1: assistant coach for twenty five years, he that wasn't his thing,
Speaker 1: like he wasn't a self motivated guy at that point
Speaker 1: in terms of hoop. So they used to kind of
Speaker 1: camp out in Garrett's parents garage because they had these
Speaker 1: takaate posters and the kakati posters were basically topless women
Speaker 1: beer or maybe skimpy bikinis or whatever, and they would
Speaker 1: and they would make fun of me, and I'd be
Speaker 1: out there shooting. So it was always your driveway or
Speaker 1: was there a local park that you are that you
Speaker 1: went and you you kind of honed your game. So
Speaker 1: when we moved to Vancouver, that was second grade. And
Speaker 1: luckily a couple of years after that, I was my
Speaker 1: parents we joined an athletic club called Club Green Meadows
Speaker 1: and it was about seven or eight minutes from where
Speaker 1: we lived. UM, and my parents would take me there
Speaker 1: as as often as as they could get me there. UM.
Speaker 1: I became old enough where they just dropped me off
Speaker 1: for a few hours and I'd be able to shoot um.
Speaker 1: You know. But the unique thing about that place was,
Speaker 1: starting from a young age, they had three courts and
Speaker 1: so there were six hoops. You could always find a
Speaker 1: hoop to shoot on regardless of the time. UM. And
Speaker 1: the other cool thing was this was before NBA teams
Speaker 1: had practice facilities um where they would open it up
Speaker 1: for the other two road team to come practice at
Speaker 1: the day before the game, or a lot of colleges
Speaker 1: would host teams for practice. So the Club Green Medals
Speaker 1: was such a good facility that NBA teams would come
Speaker 1: to Green Meadows in Vancouver in practice the day before
Speaker 1: they played the Blazers. So as a young kid, I
Speaker 1: was able to watch NBA practices. I remember watching the Spurs,
Speaker 1: I remember watching it was the Bullets at the time,
Speaker 1: the Hornets. I watched a number of different teams at
Speaker 1: the NBA level practice as a young kid, and I
Speaker 1: just sit there watching and start kind of picking and
Speaker 1: choosing different things to watch in different guys. I remember
Speaker 1: I got to to meet west An so years later
Speaker 1: I met him again during the NBA draft process and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I remember meeting west On so because he was
Speaker 1: a coach at the time with the Bullets. I remember
Speaker 1: Liddell Echoes if you remember that name. I played one
Speaker 1: on one as a as a like a sixth like
Speaker 1: a seventh eighth grade against Joe Wolf when he was
Speaker 1: with the the Hornets, And so I was able to
Speaker 1: kind of really um see the NBA game, pick and
Speaker 1: choose different things that different guys were doing in the
Speaker 1: practices and then go out and work on that once
Speaker 1: they left. And it was a really unique experience for
Speaker 1: a young kid, because what what kid gets to do that.
Speaker 1: So fast forward a few more years being at Club
Speaker 1: Green Meadows UM every Tuesday and Thursday afternoons, they would
Speaker 1: have open open runs and it was with the old guys.
Speaker 1: And you know how it is, Doug, as a young guy,
Speaker 1: you gotta kind of earn your stripes. You gotta earn
Speaker 1: the ability to be on the court. And so when
Speaker 1: you're an eighth grader or ninth grader and you're playing
Speaker 1: against you know, whether it's a twenty five year old
Speaker 1: guy who was playing in college two years ago, which
Speaker 1: there were plenty of there, or there was a forty
Speaker 1: five year old guy that's a city league legend. If
Speaker 1: you're the young guy wanted to get on the court,
Speaker 1: you gotta figure out, Okay, well you win, you stay,
Speaker 1: you lose, you gotta sit for forty five minutes. Nobody's
Speaker 1: want to do that. And then if you are the
Speaker 1: young guy who screwed it up for everybody, you're not
Speaker 1: getting back on or you're not gonna be inspired to play,
Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna be told to go, hey kid,
Speaker 1: go shoot over there. So I figured it out from
Speaker 1: a pretty early age how to compete and what it
Speaker 1: would take to win in a team concept. And then
Speaker 1: as my skills grew throughout high school, you know, I
Speaker 1: was the guy that all the old guys wanted on
Speaker 1: their team, whether they were a fresh out of college
Speaker 1: or where there they were an old guy because they
Speaker 1: knew we were probably what we're gonna win. Because my
Speaker 1: skills kept getting better, and better. Um. So I credit
Speaker 1: Green Medals for a lot of my my basketball career.
Speaker 1: So I was I was two places racquetball World. Um.
Speaker 1: And what's fascinating. So my best friend in basketball, my
Speaker 1: best friends in life is Miles Simon. Um. I know
Speaker 1: you know, well, Miles and I started playing together in
Speaker 1: fourth grade. But what's what's interesting about Miles is he
Speaker 1: grew up in a town called Placentia, which is really
Speaker 1: really so close to Fullerton, and he played at racquetball World.
Speaker 1: There's only two racketball world, I believe in Fullerton. I
Speaker 1: grew up playing at Rackball World in Santa Anna. Like
Speaker 1: we lived parallel lives where our dads would take us
Speaker 1: to rackeball where my dad was a racketball player and
Speaker 1: we would play like all day, but we didn't actually
Speaker 1: play with each other for the most part until like
Speaker 1: high school. Were like, you play rackball World and we're
Speaker 1: best friends. We occasionally go to each other's rackball World
Speaker 1: and we'd have sleepovers, but but that was that was it?
Speaker 1: Who is your idol? Growing up? Like, there was there
Speaker 1: a guy that you tried to embulate? Yeah, I had
Speaker 1: a couple of him. You know, every kid that was
Speaker 1: our age, Doug and I would imagine you would say
Speaker 1: the same would be Michael Jordan and that's the easy one.
Speaker 1: He he was greatest player of all time. He was
Speaker 1: unbelievable to watch. Um. But for me growing up in Portland,
Speaker 1: I love Jerome Kersey and Clyde Drexler, But bigger picture
Speaker 1: in the NBA, I love John Stockton um. And oddly enough,
Speaker 1: all these years later, John and I are good friends
Speaker 1: and I get two friends all the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: the craziest ship ever was I knew that. I mean
Speaker 1: I had to feel like. First of all, Jerone Kirsty
Speaker 1: was one of those guys, why didn't he shave his head?
Speaker 1: He was like perfessionally going bald, Like, why didn't he
Speaker 1: shave his head? He used to watch him the NBA finals.
Speaker 1: And then you know, Clyde was Clyde was like you
Speaker 1: know the Pacific Northwest Jordans like, well we got we
Speaker 1: got right, um, but but it is we obviously we
Speaker 1: can skip steps or whatever, but that is fascinating, right.
Speaker 1: You grew up, I had lighting this guy and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like now you're in his morning workouts
Speaker 1: and you're playing at his school and in many ways,
Speaker 1: surpassing everything he did at his school and now years
Speaker 1: later your close friends, like you're a mentor to his son,
Speaker 1: Like all of that stuff has to be just fascinating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it blows my mind sometimes, you know. And it's because
Speaker 1: like I'll make a comment at at home to my
Speaker 1: wife that hey, stocks has got open gym this day
Speaker 1: or whatever. He She'll just look at me Stocks like, yeah,
Speaker 1: John Stockton. Everybody up here that that knows him well
Speaker 1: just calls him stocks Um. But you know the reason
Speaker 1: why is I was a understized white kid from suburban Portland, Vancouver,
Speaker 1: and you know, you tend to gravitate towards and look
Speaker 1: to the dream about, Hey, if that person did it,
Speaker 1: maybe I can do it if I work hard and
Speaker 1: things work out. And so I kind of always looked
Speaker 1: at it as, hey, when I'm big, I'm probably gonna
Speaker 1: be no bigger than John Stockton when I'm fully grown.
Speaker 1: Uh he's good at this, this and this. Well I
Speaker 1: need to try to be good at those same things.
Speaker 1: And you're right, I mean, it's uh, it has come
Speaker 1: full circle when I get a chance to go down
Speaker 1: and and play in his his open gym's Uh, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I mean he still plays it.
Speaker 1: I mean, shoot, I'm forty two now, he must be
Speaker 1: fifty five fifty six and he still plays. You know,
Speaker 1: he's got a mix of guys, whether they're high school kids, uh,
Speaker 1: fresh out of college kids, guys playing from overseas, or
Speaker 1: some older guys. He's got a nice mix of guys
Speaker 1: that play in his open gyms. That's amazing. Okay, why
Speaker 1: you dub and it's amazing because like there's a I
Speaker 1: want to have a part of my boy, Chris Johnson. Um.
Speaker 1: I grew up as a u c l A fan.
Speaker 1: We moved out here and my dad kind of befriended
Speaker 1: Sam Gilbert, who's like the legendary booster at U c
Speaker 1: l A. When Walt Hazard was the coach, his two sons,
Speaker 1: Jalil and Rashid were teammates in mind. We we had
Speaker 1: him on our travel teams. Whatever, stay the night at
Speaker 1: the house, I'd be ball boys. Sometimes we had season tickets.
Speaker 1: When Jim Herrick took over, like he would help. He
Speaker 1: tried to help coach Herrick and I was offered a
Speaker 1: scholarship there and did not go there. And you know,
Speaker 1: all the kinds of myriad reasons. Why was was you
Speaker 1: dub like always your place with like why you dubb
Speaker 1: out of high school? No? I actually I wanted to
Speaker 1: go to University of Oregon UM. I went to one
Speaker 1: game at MATC Court. I believe it was my freshman
Speaker 1: year of high school. Jason care would have been a freshman,
Speaker 1: so it would have been Jason King was a freshman,
Speaker 1: so the only year in college I believe it was.
Speaker 1: And I was blown away by Matt Court, like just
Speaker 1: the energy in the building, how cool it was on
Speaker 1: the outside, how amazing it was on the inside. And
Speaker 1: you know, at that time, I wasn't being recruited by anybody.
Speaker 1: I was a freshman in high school. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: playing varsity, but I still at the time, I was
Speaker 1: five nine forty pounds, and nobody, nobody myself included, knew
Speaker 1: what to expect my career. And so fast forward a
Speaker 1: couple of years, and I'm good enough to now be
Speaker 1: recruited in the start of my junior year by uh,
Speaker 1: pretty much everybody in the West Coast Conference, some of
Speaker 1: them in the Mountain West, I would say, Washington, Washington State, USC,
Speaker 1: Stanford were recruiting me. But Oregon was the school that
Speaker 1: I wanted, like I wanted to go to Oregon. And
Speaker 1: my high school coach, um he called them probably monthly.
Speaker 1: Hey I got a point guard here. These others it
Speaker 1: would have been so somewhere in there. But Jerry Green, Yes,
Speaker 1: unbelievable staff by the way, and and and you you'll
Speaker 1: be amazed at how are There's a bigger connection than
Speaker 1: you think. But the staff for people don't know mark
Speaker 1: Ersian right, Yep, yeah, he was there. Darren Kaylish, I
Speaker 1: don't remember. Okay, So Darren was. He's from southern California
Speaker 1: and he coached team he was a coach with Team
Speaker 1: of Villa. Team of Villa's claim to fame was among
Speaker 1: other people they had, they had Keith and Horn and
Speaker 1: Darren went from Oregon to um uh to working for
Speaker 1: Adidas a long time. And then I think he's I
Speaker 1: think he manages people's money in the in the NBA
Speaker 1: now whatever. Darren's great dude. And then Tad Boyle was
Speaker 1: the other assistant when I I know because I visited
Speaker 1: there in nineties seven spring of and I and and
Speaker 1: my background in mac Court was my dad was an
Speaker 1: assistant for one year at Oregon State, a C. Green's
Speaker 1: last year. I'll never forget. And we stayed down here
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget that he called me. He's like,
Speaker 1: who's the most unbelievable atmosphere I've ever seen? When we
Speaker 1: played at Oregon there gym is like made of would
Speaker 1: and so the whole thing shakes. So we're at the
Speaker 1: pretro line and they had to stop the game because
Speaker 1: the students kept making the goals sway and I was like,
Speaker 1: it's like your dad telling you're like no, right, And
Speaker 1: sure enough I go and visit. And in the spring
Speaker 1: of ninety seven they play Arizona, who like a month
Speaker 1: later win a national championship. Jerry Green's the coach. Kenya
Speaker 1: Wilkins was their point guard. He was amazing. He was
Speaker 1: an l A guy I think Dorsey High School and
Speaker 1: he was one of those guys that just junkyard dogs,
Speaker 1: scoring one, tough as hell, right, And it was the
Speaker 1: best atmosphere I had ever seen in my entire life.
Speaker 1: But here's the downside to it. Okay, and I want
Speaker 1: to hear why why they were so late and recruiting.
Speaker 1: I go and I had just been to Oklahoma State
Speaker 1: on a visit where I played my freshman year of
Speaker 1: Notre Dame. I left, I sat at a junior college
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So they're like, you'll sit, you know,
Speaker 1: normally you sit in a section. They have like, you know,
Speaker 1: a girl who's a host whatever, you know, even on
Speaker 1: visits whatever, and they have people come and introduced themselves.
Speaker 1: Back then at matt court Um, the players sat on
Speaker 1: bleachers with like little pads in the front row of
Speaker 1: the bleachers. And then as a recruit, my knees were
Speaker 1: literally right behind the bench. So I'm sitting behind these guys.
Speaker 1: And Jerry Green came from he was like a North
Speaker 1: Carolina guy right where he I'm not not in terms
Speaker 1: of where he was, but he was in that North
Speaker 1: Carolina basketball background where they were constantly subbing guys in
Speaker 1: and out. Point guard called the defenses whatever, but they
Speaker 1: he it was like a turnstile with the guys subbing.
Speaker 1: And now, and you know what happens when you take
Speaker 1: dudes out in college, they come out and they all
Speaker 1: they did was motherfuck's right. They won the game. They
Speaker 1: beat Arizona, who was a more talented, unbelievable team. But
Speaker 1: they come out of the game and every bit and
Speaker 1: gripe about everything they're doing. And I was like, oh, oh, anyway, okay,
Speaker 1: so why did they offer you? What what happened? So,
Speaker 1: like I said, my high school coach called them probably
Speaker 1: once a month and hey, I got this kid. He's
Speaker 1: being recruited by such and such schools. His dream school
Speaker 1: is Oregon, and they showed no interest none. I don't
Speaker 1: even think I got a single. You know, they they
Speaker 1: sent the questionnaire letters. I don't even think I got
Speaker 1: one of those. So then after my junior year, I've
Speaker 1: got to have a good spring and then uh, in
Speaker 1: the summer, I go to to Nike All American Camp
Speaker 1: and I make one of those three All Star Games.
Speaker 1: And as soon as that camp was over, they all
Speaker 1: they do they want you, they want they want me.
Speaker 1: But but a month prior to that, they're like, no,
Speaker 1: we've got the point guard of the future in the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve Mike McShane, and I had known Mike for
Speaker 1: years and it was like, hmm, okay, that's that's interesting.
Speaker 1: So you know, I mean, you're a seventeen year old
Speaker 1: kid making a decision. I might have been rash and
Speaker 1: kind of marking them off the list. Once the interisted.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like, you know what
Speaker 1: that that was my dream school. You never even wanted
Speaker 1: me until I went and played at a high level.
Speaker 1: You didn't You didn't trust my eval of myself, my
Speaker 1: high school coaches, eval my AU coach because after Nike
Speaker 1: Camp here, before Nike Camp, my main schools are Washington,
Speaker 1: Washington State, Portland's because it was so close to home,
Speaker 1: Pepper nine because Lorenzo Romar in Stanford, and those were
Speaker 1: pretty much stayed my final choices. UM. But I did
Speaker 1: have a phone caller too with Kansas. I did uh
Speaker 1: kind of get interested in Penn State in UM and
Speaker 1: there was a couple other schools in the Midwest, Tulsa
Speaker 1: because they were just coming off a couple of Sweet
Speaker 1: six teams with Chasse Seals UM. But really, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I went to the Pac ten
Speaker 1: and you dubbed because and you know this as well
Speaker 1: as anybody, all the good players at that time, especially
Speaker 1: if you were a guard, you wanted to go to
Speaker 1: the Pac twelve Pac ten. You had it was guard
Speaker 1: crazy Terrell Bis, Davis Dotomar, My Mike Bibby, Jason Terry,
Speaker 1: I mean was a bad boy, so many good players.
Speaker 1: Art Artley, who was also a team of Villa by
Speaker 1: the way, Art Lee. Uh and you mentioned brevn then
Speaker 1: it was art Ly. Then it was a quick story. Uh.
Speaker 1: So Stanford was one of my final schools as well.
Speaker 1: And anybody knows, you go to Stanford if it doesn't
Speaker 1: work out on the basketball, and you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: pretty good degree and it's gonna open quite a few
Speaker 1: doors for you. So, uh, they were recruiting Mike McDonald
Speaker 1: and myself. That was their final my dad, by the way. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Mike McDonald and myself were the final two guys
Speaker 1: that Mike Montgomery had pinpointed in that years because they
Speaker 1: needed a point guard. So I had a home visit
Speaker 1: set for Mike Montgomery and one of the assistants I
Speaker 1: think on a on a Wednesday, and if everything went well,
Speaker 1: I was gonna go down the following weekend for a
Speaker 1: campus visit. Well, they called me on I think it
Speaker 1: was a Monday night or a Tuesday morning. Hey, camp,
Speaker 1: our home visits off. Mike McDonald just committed committed. So
Speaker 1: and that's how it is with recruiting unless year know,
Speaker 1: you know, ump, here's my here's here's my here's my
Speaker 1: Standford one. Okay, here's my Standford one. So I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: I was my my high school coach, the guy named
Speaker 1: Andy Ground and he just retired from saddleback as like
Speaker 1: the best junior college coach in California. And he had
Speaker 1: an office right next to the basketball gym, and I'd
Speaker 1: hang out there. You know, you get downe with class,
Speaker 1: you got to practice, you hang out there. We just
Speaker 1: hang out there all day and I gotta he gotta
Speaker 1: call Mike. Mike Montgomery called him, um, and he puts
Speaker 1: me on the phone and he's like, yeah, listen, we
Speaker 1: went off your scholarship. Um. You know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: the you and Art Lee thing. You know, they had
Speaker 1: me slotted ahead of Art or whatever. Art was a
Speaker 1: tremendous player. We'd go at it in in in a
Speaker 1: U ball and he's like, look, here's the deal. You know,
Speaker 1: will sign you. You'll be Reven Knight's back for two years.
Speaker 1: You'll play something with him, and then in two years
Speaker 1: you'll be the starter. And I was like, Coach, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm not really interested and I want to go somewhere.
Speaker 1: I got a chance to start as a freshman, you know,
Speaker 1: and not definitely as a sophomore, like I ain't laiting
Speaker 1: two years. I just don't know myself. I can't do
Speaker 1: it anyway. He was just kind of very, very matter
Speaker 1: of fact. And then they took art and you know,
Speaker 1: the one thing about money and my brother worked for
Speaker 1: Monny is he actually is a guy of his word.
Speaker 1: Like his problem was always he's just too honest, right,
Speaker 1: whereas other coaches, like whole thing was like a five guys, Doug,
Speaker 1: we played the best five guys. You were like, okay,
Speaker 1: but you took a commitment from a junior and I'm
Speaker 1: a senior, like you know, um okay, so you go
Speaker 1: to you dub and to be fair like at the time, okay,
Speaker 1: so I I knew, like I'm I'm with you. Arizona
Speaker 1: was all the guards. Arizona State was still kind of
Speaker 1: a little bit in the rogue. You know. They always
Speaker 1: had dudes that were like like Eddie House, like no
Speaker 1: real position, but just ballersh right, just ballers. Um. My
Speaker 1: problem with USC was this is before they built the
Speaker 1: Galen Center, and they had really good players, but nobody cared,
Speaker 1: Like nobody went to their games and the sports arena
Speaker 1: had such a bad rap that it was hard to
Speaker 1: get guys go there. U c l A won a
Speaker 1: national championship my senior year in high school. Right, Cal
Speaker 1: had Jason Kidd and then Randy Duck. Randy Duck was good.
Speaker 1: I played with him in the USB L I got
Speaker 1: was good. But then they had Gianni. He took Gillanni
Speaker 1: Gardner the year before me, and they had they had
Speaker 1: they had a team those over the salary cap. Right,
Speaker 1: Stanford Wazoo you dub now you went to you dub with?
Speaker 1: Was Donald wattson freshman? You're a freshman's a sophomore year.
Speaker 1: Donald would have been a junior my freshman year. Sophomore. Well,
Speaker 1: he was one year older than me um and so
Speaker 1: Donald you could kind of see things building at University
Speaker 1: of Washington when coach Benner took over Um gradually getting
Speaker 1: better year by year. Donald Watts, Dion Luton, who I
Speaker 1: think you played with at Oklahoma State, was a year
Speaker 1: older than me Um. So no, Donald was two years older.
Speaker 1: Sorry he didn't. Dion was from Oklahoma City, but he
Speaker 1: didn't go to Oklahoma State. That's that's why you guys
Speaker 1: played us, because you brought him home. That's what it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Deon Luton was a tremendous shooter, and then we
Speaker 1: had two really good seven footers, Patrick Femerlen from Germany
Speaker 1: UM and then Todd McCulloch, who obviously played in the
Speaker 1: NBA for about six years. So you saw the kind
Speaker 1: of trajectory of of what you thought the program could be. Yea,
Speaker 1: granted you never you knew, at least I knew we
Speaker 1: were never gonna be u C. L A or Arizona.
Speaker 1: But you know, as a kid, you always want to
Speaker 1: have a chance to to you know, play right off
Speaker 1: the bat, like you mentioned, and you want to go
Speaker 1: to an n c A tournament. I thought both of
Speaker 1: those things were possible for me. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: looking back, Um, you know, the way recruitment went versus
Speaker 1: the way your first year on campus went really wasn't
Speaker 1: what I was expecting. And I think that's that's indicative
Speaker 1: of a lot of kids. You know, they get told something,
Speaker 1: they get their their their hopes and their thoughts in
Speaker 1: one ways and it doesn't quite work out. And not
Speaker 1: that I was guaranteed to be a starter, but you know,
Speaker 1: if you looked at the two seniors that's that that
Speaker 1: played ahead of me in the rotation. Um, neither one
Speaker 1: were better than me, and and and you know me
Speaker 1: well enough. I'm not gonna be talking bad about another player,
Speaker 1: but I mean it was pretty obvious to me that,
Speaker 1: you know, I was going to have to earn my minutes,
Speaker 1: and I earned them, you know, as a freshman, I
Speaker 1: still played fourteen minutes a game, and and I had
Speaker 1: some big moments, uh in some big games down the
Speaker 1: stretch of the season. But um, you know, freshman year
Speaker 1: didn't pan out quite as well minutes wise as I
Speaker 1: had thought or hoped. Um, but we made this sweet
Speaker 1: six team, which you dubbed hadn't done and who knows
Speaker 1: how long. So they ended up being a really good
Speaker 1: freshman year. And then some different things happened injury wise,
Speaker 1: and then leading into my sophomore year that that made
Speaker 1: me know that was not the place for me. Okay,
Speaker 1: So so you skip some steps there, Okay, So no,
Speaker 1: it's okay, okay, it's okay. I'm I'm my mans scatter
Speaker 1: as well. So here's what I remember. Okay, we played
Speaker 1: you your freshman year and I was hyped because I was.
Speaker 1: It was like, you like, are one of our first
Speaker 1: we were I go to Oaklhoma State and the two
Speaker 1: years before I get there there seventeen and fifteen, and
Speaker 1: they just they kind of sold me on, hey, we
Speaker 1: need a point guard, and you know it, actually it's
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Oakland State was a place where everything
Speaker 1: they said actually kind of came to fruition, right, like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna move these guys were points to the two
Speaker 1: and everybody's gonna move down a position or whatever. We'll
Speaker 1: play a little small and it it kind of worked out. Um,
Speaker 1: but I remember coming in all the guys and this
Speaker 1: is this is again how A is a little different
Speaker 1: now than it was then. They all knew all the
Speaker 1: guys from that part of the country. So like they
Speaker 1: all knew Dion Luton. I mean, I mean, yes, they're
Speaker 1: like they kept calling keep on shooting Dan Luton, right,
Speaker 1: They're like and they were hyped because Joe Atkins and
Speaker 1: Still Laster, who were the two sophomore guards that were
Speaker 1: trying to be points it became twos. They were hyped
Speaker 1: about playing a guy who they grew up playing with
Speaker 1: or against or whatever. And you know, we had a
Speaker 1: big guy, Brett Roebish who was the transfer of Illinois.
Speaker 1: He was fired up about playing Mount McColo and I
Speaker 1: was like, we get to play against Dan Dick. I
Speaker 1: like I heard, but I was older, you know, I
Speaker 1: had sat out, but I had like I knew the
Speaker 1: A U circuit whatever, and so I was. And then
Speaker 1: we get ready for the game and he's playing these
Speaker 1: two other guys and I remember, like Seawn Sutton tell me,
Speaker 1: like playing the wrong guys playing that he's like playing
Speaker 1: the wrong Like we're watching tape. They're like they're playing
Speaker 1: the wrong guys because you have to. It's one of
Speaker 1: the things that I actually really admire about Frank McCaffrey
Speaker 1: and I were talking about Iowa Gonzaga is that he
Speaker 1: told me when he signed me at Notre Dame. He
Speaker 1: was the reason I went there, and he told me
Speaker 1: it's like, look, you have to rust me on this
Speaker 1: when we get the real games, like you're going to
Speaker 1: be the guy because I was terrible in practice. You know,
Speaker 1: you know is when you get to college, like all
Speaker 1: these guys are grown men, you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: And uh, he had the vision of what it would
Speaker 1: look like eventually, but I what, so take me through
Speaker 1: what it was like to play for Coach Bender because they,
Speaker 1: as you point out right, they were building something and
Speaker 1: but at that point in time the season, it didn't
Speaker 1: feel like he gave you the team. Well, you know
Speaker 1: that's that's a really good point that you make in
Speaker 1: trusting the coach that recruited you, Fran McCaffrey. So the
Speaker 1: coach who did most of the recruiting for me when
Speaker 1: when he was at University of Washington was Ray jack Letty.
Speaker 1: He ended up being a head coach at Eastern Washington,
Speaker 1: Utah and that Drake and now he's an assistant at St. Louis.
Speaker 1: But he was the main guy who recruited me. He's
Speaker 1: the guy who I ended up developing the relationship and
Speaker 1: trust in and and knew he was gonna have my
Speaker 1: back at camp on empis. The other two assistants, to
Speaker 1: be honest, take it or leave it. I didn't think
Speaker 1: they that they trusted me or they wanted me there
Speaker 1: like Coach jack Letty did, and Coach Jack had Coach
Speaker 1: Bender's ear. Well, Coach jack Letti got his first head
Speaker 1: coaching opportunity in August of the summer, right before I
Speaker 1: was gonna be a freshman at at you, dub. So
Speaker 1: imagine that your assistant coach, the guy that's gonna be
Speaker 1: in your corner, vouching for you, breaking down film with you,
Speaker 1: talking to you, he's no longer there because he left.
Speaker 1: And so I kind of navigating everything, kind of blind.
Speaker 1: Um as a freshman when't and nobody, you don't even
Speaker 1: don't know what to expect, You don't know who to
Speaker 1: lean on. Right away, I realized, well, one of the assistants,
Speaker 1: Byron Borgereau, he's not a fan of mine at all. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fine. Another Eric hughs he take it or leave it.
Speaker 1: He's he's not really in my corner. Jason Hamilton's who
Speaker 1: replaced Um, who was on the staff as well. Um,
Speaker 1: he he was in my core, but he was a
Speaker 1: younger coach and he was who I don't and he
Speaker 1: was news, so I don't think he necessarily you know,
Speaker 1: I had coach Bender's ear. And it's difficult, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: And I've never been in a position, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's difficult to take a freshman point guard and give
Speaker 1: him the ball over to seniors. I mean, you might
Speaker 1: you might lose those two guys mentally, you know, just
Speaker 1: as you know, what's this kid doing coming here? Because
Speaker 1: neither one of those guys and I've always felt this,
Speaker 1: if neither of the guys that are ahead of you
Speaker 1: and are that much older, if they're not heading shoulders better,
Speaker 1: why not play the freshman, especially early in the season,
Speaker 1: go through some ups and downs, bumps and bruises, and
Speaker 1: your team and that individual who's younger is going to
Speaker 1: be better off for it down the down the stretch
Speaker 1: of the season. The the well I called the rabbi
Speaker 1: in the room. You gotta have somebody who's your rabbi,
Speaker 1: who blessedes you, who watches out for you, right, And
Speaker 1: it's really interesting, Like I mean, I remember Paul Graham
Speaker 1: was an assistant coach. He became the head coach at
Speaker 1: Washington State, and he didn't really recruit me. So like
Speaker 1: I I he gave me one compliment in three years
Speaker 1: at Oklahoma State and here was a compliment. Okay, So
Speaker 1: Paul Graham's called the Judge. He used to always do this,
Speaker 1: you know, and like get it out, get it out, Judge,
Speaker 1: get it out. Anyway we play I think it was
Speaker 1: my sophomore maybe my junior year. We play Texas Tech
Speaker 1: on the road in their old place seems a dump.
Speaker 1: And it was my Sophoma year and they had a
Speaker 1: good team. It was there. They were coming off of
Speaker 1: sweet sixteen as well, um and they had lost Battite
Speaker 1: to the NBA, but they still had Corey Carr did
Speaker 1: a really good combo guard named Stan Bonowitz point guard
Speaker 1: names Stan Bonowitz. Ray Young was their point guard. He
Speaker 1: was a scoring point guard. That's Trays Dad. That's how
Speaker 1: crazy how old we are getting right where guys who'd
Speaker 1: be like sons are in the n B A say,
Speaker 1: a really good team and um Cliff owners are sent
Speaker 1: or he was built like a Greek god and we
Speaker 1: we beat him and I played really well down the
Speaker 1: stretch and he like called me in and maybe as
Speaker 1: my junior, and he was like, hey man, they're really good.
Speaker 1: You're not doing that stupid ship. Good job, right. That
Speaker 1: was it? Like literally never coached me, Like, like what
Speaker 1: was it like to play for? Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He recruited all the time, right, And the guys that
Speaker 1: he recruited, those are the guys that he kind of
Speaker 1: gravitated towards. Whereas like Sean Sutton and Fran McCaffrey, like
Speaker 1: I literally would talk to them on the phone or
Speaker 1: in person every single day of my existence. So I
Speaker 1: totally get when you lose Ray Jackaletti and he goes
Speaker 1: becomes a head coach, You're like, dude, who's my guy here? Right?
Speaker 1: You know who's my guy? And as much as you
Speaker 1: wanted to be the head coach, the head coach is
Speaker 1: doing head coaching things you know you you need. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just okay, So let's let's get to how how
Speaker 1: the transfer and why Gunzaga. Yeah, that's uh So after
Speaker 1: my freshman year, I injured my foot in the summer.
Speaker 1: Um we thought it was broken and kind of did
Speaker 1: the whole put it in a cast for a short bit,
Speaker 1: go to a walking boot, to the rehab thing. Are
Speaker 1: you definitely coming back? Definitely definitely coming back. So I
Speaker 1: get to to you dub In in the fall, and
Speaker 1: I'm back healthy again at that point, but we're doing
Speaker 1: conditioning and and my mental capacity or my mental approach
Speaker 1: has always been if you're if you're dinged up, go ahead,
Speaker 1: play through it. If you're hurt, okay, go talk to
Speaker 1: a trainer. Well, I at the time, I still I
Speaker 1: didn't know what the difference between the two. So I
Speaker 1: knew there was something wrong with my foot still, but
Speaker 1: I just kept gutting it out through conditioning, through fall
Speaker 1: open gyms and workouts and then practice, and you know,
Speaker 1: start the season off and I'm starting, you know, I
Speaker 1: think I started the first eleven games of the year
Speaker 1: before I broke my foot um and we got an
Speaker 1: X ray and an m R I and realized, hey,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's done. You need surgery. So in leading
Speaker 1: up to that, you know, it was kind of one
Speaker 1: of those things where I was playing, but I wasn't
Speaker 1: myself because I wasn't healthy, and I couldn't do the
Speaker 1: things on the court that I knew that I could do,
Speaker 1: just because I couldn't do it. And so then we
Speaker 1: had a freshman sank You Carry at the time, who
Speaker 1: is now an assistant coach at Long Beach State under
Speaker 1: Dan Monson. And this will kind of be funny how
Speaker 1: it comes for a full circle. Well, he's thank you
Speaker 1: Carry as a freshman who starts playing really well. And
Speaker 1: I can't do the things that are making me or
Speaker 1: would give me the chance to be a good player.
Speaker 1: I can't change speeds, I can't change directions because I
Speaker 1: can't do that. I can't create space to make the
Speaker 1: right play and a pick and roll. I can't do
Speaker 1: those things. So I can't create space to get off
Speaker 1: my jump shot. I'm just playing on one leg game
Speaker 1: as a Husky. I'm playing in Arizona. I have to
Speaker 1: guard Jason Terry, the fastest player in the country at
Speaker 1: the time. I have to play him on one leg.
Speaker 1: I mean, give me a breakfast committed to you, dub dub,
Speaker 1: and then midnight Luke came in. It's true. So finally
Speaker 1: after that Arizona game, talk with the trainers, like, look,
Speaker 1: we gotta figure this out. I can't go through an
Speaker 1: hour of rehab before practice, after practice, and then it
Speaker 1: still hurts this way. So we get back to Seattle.
Speaker 1: We'll get m r I. We got a cat scan. Yep,
Speaker 1: foot's broken. Uh, going to have surgery the doctor. I
Speaker 1: come out of the surgery and the doctor was like, well,
Speaker 1: we fixed it, but I don't think you broke your
Speaker 1: foot this summer. I think it was a misdiagnosis. Awesome,
Speaker 1: So I had a misdiagnosis leading into a bigger surgery
Speaker 1: than what we thought was gonna be. Well, Lo and behold.
Speaker 1: During that time frame, Gonzaga starts making a run. As
Speaker 1: far as you know, I'm watching them on TV and
Speaker 1: they're having a really good season in w c C.
Speaker 1: And guys on that team are friends of mine, Richie
Speaker 1: from who was the sixth grade teammate, We were high
Speaker 1: school rivals. Casey Calvary was an AU team mate of mind.
Speaker 1: And I'm seeing these guys on TV getting better and
Speaker 1: watching the progression of the team throughout the course of
Speaker 1: the year, and then they give me a call on
Speaker 1: you know, and like, hey, when are you transferred? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? So kind of gradually a
Speaker 1: couple of the guys keep past through me, like hey, Gonzaga, Gonzaga.
Speaker 1: So that Gonzaga ends up going to the Elite eight
Speaker 1: that year, they get to a tournament, make their huge run,
Speaker 1: And before before that happened, I knew in my mind,
Speaker 1: before the n c A tournament started, I was transferred
Speaker 1: and I liked Gonzaga. I wanted to be there, And
Speaker 1: then that Gonzaga run to the Elite eight just sold
Speaker 1: me as like that's where I want to be. Those
Speaker 1: are my buddies. They're getting better, They're playing in a
Speaker 1: system that obviously is working. There in the NCAA tournament
Speaker 1: and the Elite eight, they're winning, they're having fun. I
Speaker 1: want to be a part of that. So I decided
Speaker 1: to transfer. Um, Jason Hamilton so no, So I decided
Speaker 1: to transfer. Coach Benner honestly couldn't care less if I
Speaker 1: was transferring or not. It was really weird phone call versation. UM,
Speaker 1: Jason Hamilton's at home. You didn't go, You didn't go
Speaker 1: and see him. I went into the office at you
Speaker 1: dubbed Jason Hamilton's was there. Um. He was the only
Speaker 1: assistant coach that tried to talk me out of transfer.
Speaker 1: He wanted me to stay. The other two weren't in
Speaker 1: the office, but they could care less. Bob Bender, I
Speaker 1: believe was at the Final four or hadn't gotten back
Speaker 1: yet from the Final four. Um, and we had a conversation,
Speaker 1: and it just, you know, I didn't get the sense
Speaker 1: that he was particularly wanting me to stay or not
Speaker 1: wanting to stay. And I decided, you know, it's best
Speaker 1: for me to transfer. So I decided to. I sent
Speaker 1: my release to two places, Gonzaga and St. Louis. And St.
Speaker 1: Louis was because Lorenzo Romar Pepperdine. So I talked to
Speaker 1: both schools. Lorenzo at St. Louis said, look, Gonzaga is
Speaker 1: perfect for you perfect take your visit there. If you
Speaker 1: don't like it, and if it doesn't, if you don't commit,
Speaker 1: which I think you will do on your visit, call
Speaker 1: me on Monday and we'll set you up for a
Speaker 1: visit out at St. Louis. Well lo and behold, I
Speaker 1: go to Gonzaga the visit, I I realized within ten
Speaker 1: hours that that's where I need to be, and I
Speaker 1: committed on to coach Dan Monson, who I mentioned came
Speaker 1: full circle, who is now the heck and he carries
Speaker 1: the assistant. Yeah, so I commit to Dan Monson. Um.
Speaker 1: And then right before actually about two months later, he
Speaker 1: takes the Minnesota job. But I knew that that was
Speaker 1: a possibility, and I knew and talking to the guys
Speaker 1: at the program that you know, the program would be
Speaker 1: in good hands with coach Few and coach Greer being
Speaker 1: his assistant, and it wasn't gonna miss a beat because
Speaker 1: of the guys that were there. Um. So that's kind
Speaker 1: of full circle how that transfer came about. And it
Speaker 1: was Honestly, it was the the best decision I had
Speaker 1: ever made basketball wise. It's it's amazing. I know you
Speaker 1: have to go. Okay, so we're gonna do just you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're I'm getting you to commit to Part two.
Speaker 1: Um from I'm always down to talk. Okay, so but
Speaker 1: but but okay, so but here here's here's what I
Speaker 1: need before we conclude part one. Give me your visit
Speaker 1: because I was told by few that would. And now
Speaker 1: maybe it's just with specific guys. You know, when you
Speaker 1: get there, you go to dinner with everybody and they
Speaker 1: make you tell one funny story from your previous spot. Okay,
Speaker 1: so here's here, Like I'll give you an example. And
Speaker 1: uh I so Jackson what was his last name? He
Speaker 1: actually transferred to Oregon from Utah. But he's from count
Speaker 1: of your area? God, what is his name? Shoot order
Speaker 1: to Utah? He was at David Jackson. Okay, so Jackson Okay,
Speaker 1: So but he visited Glenzaga So and maybe it was
Speaker 1: just because it was Mgara's. But the story that I
Speaker 1: got was like, Hey, what we do is you coming home?
Speaker 1: You gotta tell a story about like your previous spot. Right,
Speaker 1: and his story about about uh about Utah was about
Speaker 1: Rick Majeri's right, and every no one you weren't allowed
Speaker 1: to call Rick coach. You had to call him Rick. Right.
Speaker 1: So he goes, we needed, we needed we need a
Speaker 1: Rick story. He's like and non, no, I I can't know,
Speaker 1: we need a Rick story. We're not ordering any food
Speaker 1: till we get a Rick story. Like all right, well
Speaker 1: just the other day, like just the other day, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: So here's how he told him he was transferred. Rick
Speaker 1: lived in the penthouse of the Marriott in Salt Lake
Speaker 1: City and if you and any time you go up
Speaker 1: and you go see him, but he was always like
Speaker 1: in a towel. He was almost always naked. I don't know.
Speaker 1: And so they had talked about him transferring. You know,
Speaker 1: it is like going into Christmas break, everybody kind of
Speaker 1: oh my, do you want it? He's staying. So they're
Speaker 1: getting coming at the end of Christmas break and like
Speaker 1: knocks on his door, and you know, you gotta get
Speaker 1: to call your coach, like I'm sure just a caller
Speaker 1: going to the office and tell somebody you're leaving him out.
Speaker 1: Like that's a hard thing for nine, right, Like you
Speaker 1: invested in me, you believed to me on some level,
Speaker 1: and I'm out. That's a hard thing to do. So
Speaker 1: he's like, uh, oh, come in, come in, David, come in. Sorry,
Speaker 1: is just getting out of the shower, you know, he's
Speaker 1: in a towel, and so David tells the story. He's
Speaker 1: like looking down at his feet, shuffle to you know, Rick,
Speaker 1: we talked about like if I wasn't happy and I'm
Speaker 1: just not feeling it, I'm not getting the minutes and
Speaker 1: I don't know. And he looks up and Majaris's out cold.
Speaker 1: Now you're like poorn at. You're like pouring out your heart, right,
Speaker 1: pour out your heart to a guy. And he's so
Speaker 1: he's like, do I leave, like nudges him, nudges him again, Oh, David,
Speaker 1: or oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. He's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this medication that I'm on, it just knocks me out.
Speaker 1: And look what it does to my ball. He's got
Speaker 1: some like swollen testicle. He shows David Jackson. This is
Speaker 1: the David goes like, hey, Rick, I just came to
Speaker 1: I want to transfer. I'm out. You signed the release
Speaker 1: and like literally walked out never talked to him ever again.
Speaker 1: So you did that, your experience was not perfect right
Speaker 1: where Bob Bender didn't we love you, we want you
Speaker 1: to stay. You became the national player the year. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't that your visit to Gonzaga, did they? I
Speaker 1: went to Marquette, we did a case race. We just
Speaker 1: drank beers all weekend. We went to the Brewers game
Speaker 1: and uh, Chris Crawford wouldy we we just all we
Speaker 1: did was I remember was drinking that that weekend. Your
Speaker 1: visit to Gonzaga was what happened? It was I think
Speaker 1: I committed on the first night of the visit at
Speaker 1: at the restaurant. UH pulled coach Monson aside and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, um, this is where I want to be.
Speaker 1: And so they scrapped the us to the weekend as
Speaker 1: far as having to go to uh, you know, your
Speaker 1: academic counselor meeting, meeting this professor, that a professor, and
Speaker 1: I just I went to the gym and hooped. That's
Speaker 1: what I did. I mean. Richie From was a childhood
Speaker 1: friend and a a you buddy, and Casey Calvary Richie
Speaker 1: From were the same, So it was really just a
Speaker 1: hangout weekend. Um. Once I knew I was gonna gonna
Speaker 1: be at Gonzaga. So there was nothing crazy or special
Speaker 1: to any of my recruiting trips. I was. I was
Speaker 1: pretty boring. I was wanted to be in the gym.
Speaker 1: What what did you do to improve during your Red
Speaker 1: Tree year? Never take a day off? I was. I
Speaker 1: was lucky because Tommy Lloyd was a student assistant at
Speaker 1: the time and we became he's associated head coach now
Speaker 1: and we became like best friends for for for that
Speaker 1: stretch of my life, my career. I mean, he was
Speaker 1: in the gym every time I wanted to be there,
Speaker 1: working on just random stuff like jab shots off legged
Speaker 1: pivot foot jab shots, jab goes, jab crossovers, uh, pick
Speaker 1: and roll reads where you know, instead of you you
Speaker 1: make a delivery with one hand, you're making it with
Speaker 1: both hands. You're making it off a reverse pivot on
Speaker 1: hook pass, you're throwing you know, Uh, every different kind
Speaker 1: of scenario drill you could think of. Tommy and I
Speaker 1: worked on that year, and he was he was still
Speaker 1: young enough where we played a lot of one on
Speaker 1: one as well, So UM team would go out on
Speaker 1: the road, we would be in the gym every day
Speaker 1: UM practices. I became the guy that was the focal
Speaker 1: point um of the other team, whether it was a
Speaker 1: point guard who could pass it, okay, well today in practice,
Speaker 1: I gotta just make every single read. I gotta make
Speaker 1: place for others all practice long. If it was a
Speaker 1: scoring point guard, you know, I had the freedom to
Speaker 1: pull up from thirty ft on the break. If I
Speaker 1: was a two, I was coming off pin downs, floppy actions,
Speaker 1: whatever it was. If I was a three in practice
Speaker 1: that day, you know, I was filling the lane and
Speaker 1: transition and I was trying to slash. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was a year where Coach Few challenged me in practice
Speaker 1: to to bring it every day to help the guys
Speaker 1: get ready. But in turn it helped me because I
Speaker 1: had to kind of fill all these different roles for
Speaker 1: what they would face as an opponent in the coming days.
Speaker 1: And it got me out of my comfort zone and
Speaker 1: really helped improve all these different little facets of the
Speaker 1: game while I learned how to be competitive and coached
Speaker 1: us system. We'll break there because you gotta go. But
Speaker 1: that was a great look into a into what into
Speaker 1: what led you to becoming a Zag and now you're
Speaker 1: you're a Zag legend. But it's just Uh, it's it's Uh,
Speaker 1: it's pretty awesome. Dan, Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 1: Absolutely without a doubt we will have to do it
Speaker 1: again sometimes because Uh, like I said, I always like
Speaker 1: catching up talking hoops with you, Doug. So just let
Speaker 1: me know when I that's part one and there's there's
Speaker 1: there's more. Now we got now he's he's at Gonzaga.
Speaker 1: We still haven't gotten into the first meeting with John Stockton.
Speaker 1: Right now he's telling us he's called him stocks But
Speaker 1: the first meeting, Like, was it like to play for
Speaker 1: the Zags? What what was that heartache? Like? How much
Speaker 1: pride does he take in what they've done his NBA journey?
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, by the way, for a guy that's
Speaker 1: was known for the hair when he was in college,
Speaker 1: the floppy hair when he's a kid. Now he owns
Speaker 1: barbershops too, So and we'll talk about the Zag thing
Speaker 1: and how this could be the year we getting ready
Speaker 1: for the Iowa Glenzag game. In the meantime, really appreciate
Speaker 1: you listening. My radio show is daily three to six Eastern,
Speaker 1: twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sport
Speaker 1: Tradio dot Com, the I Heart Radio Network in the meantime,
Speaker 1: download subscribe rate, write one of those reviews. I was
Speaker 1: told it helps me do it. You can write Doug
Speaker 1: Gotlieb is amazing. That's awesome. Doug Gotlieb is the greatest.
Speaker 1: That's also good. UM. I love Doug gotlie but these
Speaker 1: are all good reviews to write, and I appreciate that. UM.
Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year, Thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: and listening. Waity here Part two. I'm Doug gotlie This
Speaker 1: is all ball