Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
Speaker 2: I am Mike Spofford, joined as always by my trust
Speaker 2: and colleague Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from
Speaker 2: our studios at lambeau Field to review the Packers Week
Speaker 2: seventeen loss to the Minnesota Vikings. The final was twenty
Speaker 2: seven to twenty five at US Bank Stadium West. But
Speaker 2: you know, and I know that quite frankly, this game
Speaker 2: was not as close as the final score. The Packers
Speaker 2: made a run at it in the back half of
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter. They did not give up in this game,
Speaker 2: but for a good portion of the game they were
Speaker 2: down multiple scores and the Vikings were in control of
Speaker 2: the game. And I think Matt Lafleur said it best
Speaker 2: on Monday when he went to the podium and he
Speaker 2: basically just accused the Packers of playing sloppy football. And
Speaker 2: you play sloppy football against good teams, and it's going
Speaker 2: to be really, really hard to win. And that's what
Speaker 2: the Packers found out on Sunday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And to me, I mean, I just look at
Speaker 3: that beginning of it and I thought the approach was right.
Speaker 3: We saw what happened in when Detroit when they deferred
Speaker 3: on the kickoff. This time they decided to take it.
Speaker 3: You try to take the crowd out of it. Almost
Speaker 3: maybe replicate these fast starts they had in back to
Speaker 3: back games where they really get two touchdowns off their
Speaker 3: first two series, and honestly, they're moving the ball a
Speaker 3: little bit, but then Josh Jacobs has the fumble. Credit
Speaker 3: to the Packers defense, they actually keep the Vikings off
Speaker 3: the board. They actually earn another punt on the next
Speaker 3: series as well. I can't remember if it was exactly
Speaker 3: three now, but they got off the field again in
Speaker 3: this situation, and Green Bay plays pretty much a scoreless
Speaker 3: first quarter with Minnesota until the Brandon McManus pack the
Speaker 3: drive stalls in the red zone. McManus gets a twenty
Speaker 3: two yarder and then after that it was off to
Speaker 3: the races. It just seemed like the Vikings were able
Speaker 3: to get into a rhythm. I think the Packers took
Speaker 3: a pretty big hit with the Zane Anderson loss. You're
Speaker 3: kind of expecting that he once again is going to
Speaker 3: be back there. With Xavier McKinney, a veteran that has
Speaker 3: been in this league for a number of years now,
Speaker 3: even if he hasn't played as much. A couple dominoes
Speaker 3: fell a couple different directions, a couple penalties went a
Speaker 3: couple different ways, and obviously the offense didn't start fast
Speaker 3: enough and the Green Bay Packers picked up their fourth
Speaker 3: loss in the NFC Nord.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of disappointment on both sides
Speaker 2: of the ball with how this game went. Defensively, I
Speaker 2: agree with you entirely on what happened with Zane Anderson.
Speaker 2: He gets injured on the kickoff right after the McManus
Speaker 2: field goal, when the Packers are up three to nothing.
Speaker 2: He leaves for concussion evaluation. And you wouldn't think, okay,
Speaker 2: you lose Zane Anderson, who was just filling in at
Speaker 2: safety anyway, right, You wouldn't think that that would be
Speaker 2: a big issue. But when the Packers are down Jay
Speaker 2: or Alexander and Evan Williams in the secondary, and Javon
Speaker 2: Bullard had just come back from being out for two weeks,
Speaker 2: he was limited in practice with the ankle injury, and
Speaker 2: you and I both suspect that the vast majority, if
Speaker 2: not all, of his snaps, the limited snaps he did
Speaker 2: get in practice were at the nickel position right because
Speaker 2: Anderson was going to be the other deep safety with McKinney. So,
Speaker 2: as you said, the dominoes start to fall then because
Speaker 2: Bullard moves back to safety, which is a position he
Speaker 2: hadn't practiced really at all on top of being out
Speaker 2: for the last two games. And then Keyshawn Nixon then
Speaker 2: has to start bouncing between the slot corner and the
Speaker 2: boundary corner based on what defensive package the Packers are in,
Speaker 2: and quite frankly that that domino effect in the secondary
Speaker 2: had a big impact on the defense. Sam Darnold ends
Speaker 2: up thirty three for forty three, a career high three
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy seven yards, And it was a combination
Speaker 2: of a lot of things. There were times the coverage
Speaker 2: didn't hold up. There were a lot of times that
Speaker 2: the pass rush just didn't affect Donald enough. It it
Speaker 2: became once the Vikings got going offensively, it sort of
Speaker 2: became this snowball that started to go downhill. And the
Speaker 2: fact that the Packers were really stifling Minnesota's running game
Speaker 2: to a great degree just didn't matter because they could
Speaker 2: not get Sam Donald out of his rhythm.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent and a couple of different things to
Speaker 3: touch on here. One, I want to just very quickly
Speaker 3: mention this safety situation, because you laid it out perfectly
Speaker 3: Sat Anderson. He's only been in there, he only had
Speaker 3: started one game, right. But then you kind of think
Speaker 3: about what Eric Wilson has done at inside linebacker when
Speaker 3: you lose kway Walker at two different intervals of the season,
Speaker 3: and you have a guy that you can turn to
Speaker 3: on the bench that has played eight years in the
Speaker 3: National Football League, has been a starter before, and can
Speaker 3: become the key communicator at the linebacker position and kind
Speaker 3: of keep all the chess pieces lined up appropriately. It's
Speaker 3: kind of like that on the back end too, where
Speaker 3: you're thinking you're going to go in with a certain
Speaker 3: game plan. We saw Xavier McKinney blitzing from a free
Speaker 3: Sat I think on the second series. Those are the
Speaker 3: type of things that you can do when you have
Speaker 3: some You have the reps, you have the camaraderie, you
Speaker 3: have the trust, and then suddenly Buller's being in addition
Speaker 3: to coming back from injury, now being forced to play
Speaker 3: a position that he likely didn't practice. To your point
Speaker 3: though about where things headed for Green Bay in the
Speaker 3: first half. I agree with you. It seemed like early
Speaker 3: on they were able to get some pressure on Darnold
Speaker 3: nearly took him down on a couple different occasions. But
Speaker 3: then somewhere in that second quarter into the third quarter,
Speaker 3: there were too many times where he is standing back
Speaker 3: there and there is nothing around him and he has
Speaker 3: all that time to survey the field. I thought they
Speaker 3: were really smart. I liked with Kevin O'Connell drew up obviously.
Speaker 3: You know when you have those type of weapons, with
Speaker 3: Jalen Naylor also as a third option. How many times
Speaker 3: you and I talked last week. I never even brought
Speaker 3: up Naylor's name. He ends up catching the believe it
Speaker 3: was a thirty one yard post that if with the
Speaker 3: touchdown that kind of got things rolling. Justin Jefferson didn't
Speaker 3: really hurt them for a majority of this game, but
Speaker 3: then heated up towards the end of it. It was
Speaker 3: sort of like what you were discussing last week, where
Speaker 3: he had a bunch of catches but not a lot
Speaker 3: of yards early on, and then Jordan Addison is just
Speaker 3: a difference maker.
Speaker 1: Mattlefloor said it.
Speaker 3: I mean they have two bona fide Number one receivers
Speaker 3: and I thought both those guys played like it. And
Speaker 3: then the last thing I will say, the Packers did
Speaker 3: an excellent job against the run in this game. Aaron
Speaker 3: Jones really wasn't too much of a factor. The backs
Speaker 3: behind him really didn't factor in that much. What I
Speaker 3: will say though, is Aaron Jones did a tremendous job
Speaker 3: in pass protection. They tried the Drin Cooper blitzes, they
Speaker 3: tried the stunts, the games, the twists, and Minnesota was
Speaker 3: really stood up well to it. I think that was
Speaker 3: another thing that kind of contributed to the time that
Speaker 3: Donald had to work with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I was kind of getting at with.
Speaker 2: You know, everything with the defense was the combination of
Speaker 2: the Russian coverage. Because statistically Donald has forty three pass attempts,
Speaker 2: He's only sacked once, Carlbrooks got him late in the
Speaker 2: first half. Only four quarterback hits by the Packers pass
Speaker 2: rush in forty three pass attups. That is certainly not
Speaker 2: good enough when you look at the film, and I
Speaker 2: you know, from our vantage point up in the corner
Speaker 2: of the end zone at US Bank Stadium, you know,
Speaker 2: not something that I noticed during the game, but when
Speaker 2: you when you look at the film, the Vikings kept
Speaker 2: a running back and sometimes also a tight end in
Speaker 2: in pass protection. A lot of times at the snap yep,
Speaker 2: they were they were in a max protect type of
Speaker 2: scenario where you've got six or seven guys in pass
Speaker 2: protection at least initially before somebody might leak out. That's
Speaker 2: gonna that's gonna make it really hard for a four
Speaker 2: or even a five man rush to get home the problem.
Speaker 2: The problem was that in those instances the pack the
Speaker 2: Vikings then only have three or four guys out into
Speaker 2: the pattern against at least six or seven pass defenders.
Speaker 2: But Darnold was still finding holes and still getting completion.
Speaker 2: So that's why I say I don't want to put
Speaker 2: it all on the pass rush because there was only
Speaker 2: one sack in forty three dropbacks. But by the same token,
Speaker 2: you can't you know, it's not just all on the
Speaker 2: coverage because the Vikings didn't mass max protect every single time.
Speaker 2: And what really I saw happening a lot of times
Speaker 2: with the four man rush was one guy would get
Speaker 2: some penetration or get possibly an angle to try to
Speaker 2: disrupt Donald. But when only one guy is getting there,
Speaker 2: there's all these spaces for Donald to step into, step up,
Speaker 2: step this way, step that way, because nobody else was
Speaker 2: winning the rush. If only one guy wins on his
Speaker 2: rush and doesn't get a clean hit at the quarterback,
Speaker 2: all he has to do is take a step or
Speaker 2: two one way or another, and then he's still got
Speaker 2: a throwing lane to get rid of the ball. So
Speaker 2: it was just this combination of things where there weren't
Speaker 2: enough guys getting pressure on Donald, and then when the
Speaker 2: Vikings were making sure there wouldn't be any pressure on Donald,
Speaker 2: the coverage wasn't holding up when the Packers should have
Speaker 2: had the advantage in the back end. And you know,
Speaker 2: yet the injury certainly happened, but the expectation is for
Speaker 2: the Packers to be able to play better than that.
Speaker 2: And quite frankly, this was just Sam Donald's day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and to kind of work off of what we
Speaker 3: were talking with Carrington Valentine in the locker room afterwards,
Speaker 3: and Carrington, credit to him, did get a third quarter interception,
Speaker 3: a second pick in three weeks.
Speaker 2: That was a huge play because you know, the Packers
Speaker 2: were down twenty to three at the time, They're looking
Speaker 2: close to being dead in the water and Valentine gets
Speaker 2: that interception. Fortunately Carl Brooks recovers the fumble. At the
Speaker 2: end of the return, the Packers take it in for
Speaker 2: a touchdown, and not a lot has gone right, but
Speaker 2: it's a ten point game, and hope was not lost
Speaker 2: at that well.
Speaker 3: And even as Xavier McKinney said afterwards when I was
Speaker 3: talking with them in the locker, I mean, those are
Speaker 3: the plays they're gonna need, whether it's from Valentine or
Speaker 3: other guys. They need to take the ball away. That's
Speaker 3: the identity of this defense. That stuff that they're gonna
Speaker 3: need to build upon going into the postseason. But the
Speaker 3: reason I bring up the Carrington bit is because, as
Speaker 3: he mentioned, when he was being asked about some of
Speaker 3: the things that happened with the passing game, you know,
Speaker 3: he said, I mean their quarterback gets paid too, Like
Speaker 3: Sam Donald is a very good courquarterback. And by the way,
Speaker 3: the Packers, if they can make a postseason run here
Speaker 3: are going to face some very good quarterbacks. You have
Speaker 3: to solve them. But I just want to say, and
Speaker 3: I think I said this after the Week four Game two,
Speaker 3: the search is over. Sam Donald is the quarterback of
Speaker 3: the Minnesota Vikings. I don't want to hear JJ McCarthy's
Speaker 3: name anymore. You want to keep him on ice for
Speaker 3: three years, keep him on ice. You want to trade him,
Speaker 3: you can trade him. Do whatever you want. If you
Speaker 3: are foolish enough to let that guy out of the building,
Speaker 3: it would be the biggest thing positively that you could
Speaker 3: do for Detroit, Green Bay in Chicago. Sam Darnald, the
Speaker 3: way that he performed at the end of last season
Speaker 3: with San Francisco and what he's shown this year with Minnesota,
Speaker 3: that's your guy.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: The Packers need to find some answers for him. As
Speaker 3: we talked about whether it was final thoughts some of
Speaker 3: our other content last week, they didn't do a good
Speaker 3: enough job pressure on. Matt Lefloor said that himself. But
Speaker 3: Sam Donald made some big throws in this game, and
Speaker 3: it's why this Minnesota Vikings were able to out last
Speaker 3: Greame Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The one bright spot I would say on defense,
Speaker 2: as we saw a rookie linebacker Edger and Cooper play
Speaker 2: seventy one of seventy two snaps happening, which was a
Speaker 2: major major increase in his workload. We talked about, you know,
Speaker 2: edgerin Cooper is going to become an every down defender
Speaker 2: in this defense at some point. We don't know when. Well,
Speaker 2: it was this it was this week the Packers went
Speaker 2: that direction. He was out there for all but one snap,
Speaker 2: and he was an impact player. Ten tackles, four of
Speaker 2: them behind the line of scrimmage. He was an absolute
Speaker 2: terror in the running game with regard to to shutting
Speaker 2: down the Vikings running backs. As you mentioned, Aaron Jones
Speaker 2: was as usual a stud in pass protection and was
Speaker 2: a big reason that Edgern Cooper was not involved in
Speaker 2: any of the pass rush stats whatsoever. Matt Lafleur said,
Speaker 2: you know, this is the first time Edgering Cooper, you know,
Speaker 2: really played a full game. There were some ups and downs.
Speaker 2: There were certainly some plays that he would like to
Speaker 2: have back, probably some assignments he misster did and play
Speaker 2: as well as he should have. But you certainly saw
Speaker 2: the impact that he can have over the course of
Speaker 2: a full game when he's out there. That is definitely
Speaker 2: something that this is going to build on. And we
Speaker 2: will see if he ends up getting paired with kway
Speaker 2: Walker here potentially in the playoffs, if Walker can Beck
Speaker 2: can get back from his injury.
Speaker 3: If Edrin Cooper is good, the hamstrings behind him.
Speaker 1: It's go time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Packers are playing for all these games matter.
Speaker 3: Mattlinfloor said to himself their goal from here on out
Speaker 3: is to win every game. And before Packer fans jump
Speaker 3: on that and say, well it should have been that
Speaker 3: way from the beginning, no, he's looking at it as
Speaker 3: we are. Win every game where your season's over. You
Speaker 3: have to build momentum against Chicago. You can't go into
Speaker 3: the playoffs with a loss against Chicago, the first loss
Speaker 3: of the Mattlin Floor era. You can't go into whether
Speaker 3: it's Philadelphia or Los Angeles or I think maybe potentially
Speaker 3: Tampa Bay.
Speaker 2: Yeh.
Speaker 3: You can't go through Anito scenarios and be flat, not
Speaker 3: if you're expecting to win that game and then go
Speaker 3: on next week to face a team like Minnesota or Detroit.
Speaker 1: So put all that out there, Edgerri and Cooper.
Speaker 3: I think defensively, this guy has become not only a playmaker,
Speaker 3: but one of the top guys on that side of
Speaker 3: the ball. He is one of the guys now that
Speaker 3: opposing offense is having to scheme up against and plan for.
Speaker 3: That's what you want, and that's what they're getting out
Speaker 3: of their rookie second round pick and it's exciting to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, on the offensive side of the ball, it was
Speaker 2: a huh, it was a tough slog. The bottom line
Speaker 2: was through three and a half quarters, Jordan Love had
Speaker 2: sixty four passing yards until those two touchdown drives late
Speaker 2: in the fourth quarter, where he threw for one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty one yards. Packers scored the two touchdowns to
Speaker 2: get within two points. Have the chance to get the
Speaker 2: stop at the end and get the ball back one
Speaker 2: more time. That doesn't happen. But you mentioned the fumble
Speaker 2: by Josh Jacobs. There were some There were a couple
Speaker 2: of procedure penalties that took away some significant plays. There were,
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of throws are off, a couple
Speaker 2: of passes that could have been caught might have been dropped.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest one the fourth down when the
Speaker 2: Packers were in field goal range in the second quarter.
Speaker 2: I believe it was fourth and three, fourth and too,
Speaker 2: something like that. Matt Lafleur decides to play it aggressively,
Speaker 2: just said he had a gut feeling on the play
Speaker 2: that he had called. They decided to go for it.
Speaker 2: A field goal would have made it seven to six.
Speaker 2: They're going to play for the touchdown there, and unfortunately,
Speaker 2: you know, Jordan loves throws a little bit off. Jaden
Speaker 2: Reid gets his hands on it, trying to dive for it,
Speaker 2: but can't bring it in. A throw that could have
Speaker 2: been better, a ball that still could have been caught.
Speaker 2: The bottom line is the play was there and it
Speaker 2: wasn't made. And yeah, you can parse the decision and
Speaker 2: everything all that you want, but that was sort of
Speaker 2: a microcosm in a lot of ways to me of
Speaker 2: the first three plus quarters of this game is that
Speaker 2: there were plays to be made against this Vikings defense, yep,
Speaker 2: and the Packers didn't make them. And that was the
Speaker 2: consummate example of it right.
Speaker 3: There, And the thing that probably is the most frustrating
Speaker 3: all Green Bay ran the ball well against the second
Speaker 3: ranked run defense in the National Football League. They did
Speaker 3: not particularly run the ball well in that first matchup,
Speaker 3: although to be fair to them, they fell behind big early.
Speaker 3: I felt like they controlled the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: the Josh Jacobs fumble kind of set the tone for
Speaker 3: some stuff. Jacobs himself said afterwards, it's gonna be hard
Speaker 3: for me to sleep tonight. He prides himself on being
Speaker 3: able to start when they get off to fast starts.
Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs wears that as a badge of honor. You
Speaker 3: look at the yards from scrimmage he's put together this year.
Speaker 3: I think it's what now, four hundred yards games from
Speaker 3: scrimmage in the first half this season. He wanted to
Speaker 3: do that again in Minnesota. He wanted to take the
Speaker 3: crowd out. If they weren't able to do it. It
Speaker 3: was more than Josh Jacobs though, as you said, the
Speaker 3: situation there on the fourth down, Love could throw a
Speaker 3: better ball, Reid could catch it. Somebody needs to make
Speaker 3: a play, right, That's the name of the game. Who
Speaker 3: is making your plays? And Green Bay just didn't have
Speaker 3: enough of that in this I love the scheme. I
Speaker 3: love the defense that Minnesota has put together. It's multiple,
Speaker 3: it's versatile, there's a lot of names, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of veterans. I think this is the second oldest team
Speaker 3: in the National Football League entering the season, behind Miami.
Speaker 3: But they play still very fast, very smart, and I
Speaker 3: think Brian Flores mixed up his stuff too, that it
Speaker 3: wasn't the same carbon copy game plan as that first
Speaker 3: one where they were really teasing the safeties, blitzing and
Speaker 3: getting guys eight nine guys on the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 3: They played two shell a lot more in this game,
Speaker 3: naturally from the base look, and Green Bay had a
Speaker 3: hard time answering it. Losing Christian Watson was a big deal.
Speaker 3: I think you and I both agreed going into this
Speaker 3: that was gonna be a big deal because it's not
Speaker 3: just what he does catching the ball, it's how he
Speaker 3: sets other things up. But if you don't have Christian Watson,
Speaker 3: somebody else needs to become that playmaker. Last year in Minnesota,
Speaker 3: it was boul Melton one hundred and five receiving yards,
Speaker 3: a touchdown, first one hundred yard game of the season,
Speaker 3: and that in that instant for the Packers' receivers that
Speaker 3: kind of got them going throughout the playoffs. Who's going
Speaker 3: to be that guy that takes that baton in this game?
Speaker 3: It just didn't happen. I will give I will say this,
Speaker 3: I won't say, well, it didn't happen. I thought Tucker
Speaker 3: Craft gave some really good reps. I thought when the
Speaker 3: offense was firing, when it looked explosive, Tucker Craft had
Speaker 3: a hand in that, but there just wasn't enough of it.
Speaker 2: I think partly what we're seeing here, and I've you know,
Speaker 2: I remember having you know, when I've done off season
Speaker 2: interviews for your book stories and things like that that
Speaker 2: I've talked to Matt Lafuer, even going back to times
Speaker 2: that I talked with Mike McCarthy when he was here.
Speaker 2: Matt Lafuer's comment after the game that the Vikings played
Speaker 2: way more man to man coverage than the Packers anticipated.
Speaker 2: It brought me back to comments that I've heard in
Speaker 2: the past when Aaron Rodgers was here, that teams would
Speaker 2: break their own profile on defense to shake things up
Speaker 2: against against a good quarterback like Jordan Love. The Detroit
Speaker 2: Lions didn't do that. The Detroit Lions. They line up
Speaker 2: and play man's and that's what they do. That's what
Speaker 2: that's what they're doing. That's that's Dan Campbell's philosophy, that's
Speaker 2: how Aaron Glenn calls it. But the Vikings threw a
Speaker 2: change up at the Packers. They threw more man coverage
Speaker 2: at Green Bay than had been their profile, and the
Speaker 2: Packers struggled to adjust to it. And that's something that
Speaker 2: you know, those adjustments in a lot of ways became
Speaker 2: seamless when you know your four time MVP Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 2: he can make that adjustment by the middle of the
Speaker 2: first quarter. Certainly by the end of the first quarter,
Speaker 2: he's going to get a beat on things. Jordan Love
Speaker 2: is still in his second year as a starter. A
Speaker 2: change up like that gets thrown at the offense and
Speaker 2: you've got still a bunch of young receivers and whatnot.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make excuses for the Packers. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to explain, quite frankly, when a defense does that
Speaker 2: and changes its profile, it's a measure of respect for
Speaker 2: what they believe you might be able to do against them,
Speaker 2: and they feel like they have to change things in
Speaker 2: order to disrupt you. Credit to Brian Flores and the Vikings.
Speaker 2: It worked because the Packers did not adjust well to
Speaker 2: what they had planned for coming into the game, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't until very late in the game when the
Speaker 2: Vikings had a three score lead. They're certainly playing the
Speaker 2: clock more so than they're playing the opponent. And then
Speaker 2: Jordan Love got into a rhythm and that relaxed approach
Speaker 2: in some ways almost bit the Vikings because if they
Speaker 2: don't get the first down in the last two minutes,
Speaker 2: Jordan Love is on fire and he's got one more opportunity,
Speaker 2: needing only a field goal to escape that game with
Speaker 2: a huge comeback victory. But the Packers, it's a lesson
Speaker 2: learned for the Packers in that you have to be
Speaker 2: ready for opponents to maybe throw some changeups at you,
Speaker 2: and you have to figure out how to adjust to
Speaker 2: it sooner so that it doesn't take this long for
Speaker 2: what is a very dangerous offense to find its footing
Speaker 2: in the get going.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the other thing is too is Green Bay has
Speaker 3: got to be its own They got to bring its
Speaker 3: own juice, sometimes too offensively. You know, as we talked
Speaker 3: about with the Carrington Valentine interception, it seemed like that
Speaker 3: changed everything. The offense flowed a little bit better. They
Speaker 3: got those adversity points right, it punched it in with
Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs touchdown run, and it just seemed like after
Speaker 3: that they were untouchable a little bit. But before that
Speaker 3: it was trying to find an answer and trying to
Speaker 3: find first downs and they just couldn't get there. And again,
Speaker 3: there's so many things that go into that, but making
Speaker 3: those adjustments. Making those corrections are really pivotal. And I
Speaker 3: will say this too, just to tie into the end
Speaker 3: of that game there, because.
Speaker 1: It miraculously green Bay does.
Speaker 3: They get the two point conversion with the pass to Dobbs,
Speaker 3: they get, you know, within two points.
Speaker 2: The touchdown to Malik Heath.
Speaker 3: Malik Heath, with the touchdown Malik Heath, and Minnesota gets
Speaker 3: the ball back with green Bay having all three timeouts
Speaker 3: and the north side of the two minute warning. The
Speaker 3: one part that was frustrating for me a Minnesota running
Speaker 3: game that was just obsolete all afternoon, with maybe the
Speaker 3: exception of one Aaron Jones run.
Speaker 2: There was one run by Cam Akers Akers Dad got
Speaker 2: out of the gate, yes, but basically one run by Jones,
Speaker 2: one run by Acres. Other than that, Minnesota could not
Speaker 2: run the ball.
Speaker 3: And yet Minnesota still runs a play action. They get
Speaker 3: the thirteen yard pass to Ham. They don't it's not
Speaker 3: a true play action. It was more of a rollout
Speaker 3: on the pass that ended up going to Acres. But
Speaker 3: it's like those things are so frustrating because it's like
Speaker 3: you've already proven well one, you don't have to sell
Speaker 3: out for it, and in Minnesota's case, it's like you're
Speaker 3: really going to set up play action after.
Speaker 1: You haven't run the ball all day. But they got
Speaker 1: away with it and they got the win.
Speaker 2: Well both and really when on all of the throws,
Speaker 2: you know, those last four plays where they got the
Speaker 2: two first downs, one on the plus side of the
Speaker 2: two minute warning and then the second one that sealed
Speaker 2: the game, Darnold was on the move in the pocket,
Speaker 2: which from a play calling perspective, is really smart because
Speaker 2: then if the throw isn't there, he can just tuck
Speaker 2: it and run and slide and make the Packers use
Speaker 2: their timeouts. Right, you can't you can't count on being
Speaker 2: able to do that if you're standing in the pocket.
Speaker 2: And so Kevin m'connell got him on not a mobile quarter,
Speaker 2: no any means, but he got him on the move
Speaker 2: to give him that option. And and then the the
Speaker 2: third down, and you know, credit cam Acres. It wasn't
Speaker 2: a great throw on the final third and three Acres
Speaker 2: makes a really difficult catch, you know, falling down backwards,
Speaker 2: grabs it off his shoe tops. Those are the kind
Speaker 2: of catches that you know, some of those the Packers
Speaker 2: let get away in this game, and Acres makes it
Speaker 2: at the.
Speaker 1: End on that one too, it's like then he's uncovered.
Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, you know exactly, you know the
Speaker 2: there was there was nobody there to make it a
Speaker 2: more difficult guess for him. The most The other concerning thing,
Speaker 2: of course, on the offense is that is that we
Speaker 2: saw the you know these the pre snat penalties and
Speaker 2: and things like that. Just this It's been part of
Speaker 2: the roller coaster with this offense up season, right It's
Speaker 2: like they crop up for a while, then it seems
Speaker 2: like they go away, then all of a sudden they
Speaker 2: come back again. That's what Matt Lafleur was talking about
Speaker 2: in some respects with with the sloppy football comment and
Speaker 2: just really frustrating it. And it was especially it was
Speaker 2: especially damaging right at the end of the first half
Speaker 2: because the Packers have the ball, there's under two minutes
Speaker 2: left in the first half and they have a third
Speaker 2: and one and then that's where I believe it's Dantevian
Speaker 2: Wicks gets called for illegal formation. Mattlafuir totally disagreed with
Speaker 2: the call. He felt Tucker Craft had come off the
Speaker 2: line and and had checked with the official on that
Speaker 2: Dantevian Wicks had stepped up onto the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 2: but they threw the flag for illegal formation anyway, that
Speaker 2: put the Packers set of third and one. It's third
Speaker 2: and six. They end up they end up hunting, and
Speaker 2: then Minnesota gets one more crack to score before halftime,
Speaker 2: which then they get a second crack at the field
Speaker 2: goal because of the off side call on Edger and
Speaker 2: Cooper get five yards closer and reikerd hits the field goal.
Speaker 2: A lot of controversy there. The Packers and Matt Lafluer
Speaker 2: certainly did not agree with either of those pre snap penalties.
Speaker 2: But you know, but again a microcosm in some ways
Speaker 2: of things that have gone wrong in games earlier this season.
Speaker 2: That's very frustrating to see that stuff crop up in
Speaker 2: late December when you're hoping to have put that stuff
Speaker 2: behind you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was. It was tough.
Speaker 3: And again Matt Lafleur will always say, you never want
Speaker 3: to put it in the officials' hands. I will say,
Speaker 3: I mean Kyle Schaeffer's and you know, I mean, who's
Speaker 3: the my car was the down judge too? I mean
Speaker 3: I've never seen a crew perseverate more over the line
Speaker 3: of scrimmage than they did in this game. And by
Speaker 3: the way, it happened to Minnesota too. Yeah, it wasn't
Speaker 3: just gimingh but but it was just a very bizarre sequence,
Speaker 3: and certainly at the end of the first half. I
Speaker 3: know I have Viking fans all over me on Twitter
Speaker 3: about this too, but like, and I think you pointed
Speaker 3: out right. I mean, there's probably just a little bit
Speaker 3: too much movement, a little bit too much forward motion
Speaker 3: from Edgrin. But I also don't think the officials really
Speaker 3: knew where the line of scrimmage was based on how
Speaker 3: people were lined up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that's that's what I was going to
Speaker 2: get at, because, as you know, I don't participate much
Speaker 2: in social media, but I do read it. And I
Speaker 2: was reading that because you were kind of going back
Speaker 2: and forth.
Speaker 1: Was still am evidently, and but I was.
Speaker 2: I was reading through that, and I apologize for not
Speaker 2: remembering this individual's name, but it's somebody from somebody associated
Speaker 2: with she said TV who made a response to one
Speaker 2: of your comments. And then when I when I look
Speaker 2: back at the film, this makes a lot of sense
Speaker 2: to me. It doesn't excuse it in terms of the call.
Speaker 2: But what I what I want to explain is when
Speaker 2: you you look at that line of scrimmage view of
Speaker 2: the field goal, it looks like the right guard for
Speaker 2: Minnesota is too far forward. He's the one who's actually offside,
Speaker 2: lined up in the neutral zone. What I wonder about,
Speaker 2: and this is possibly this is a plausible explanation. The
Speaker 2: side judge who threw the flag on Cooper on Nathan
Speaker 2: Ji's side of the field, on the packer's side of
Speaker 2: the field, maybe he thought, based on his view down
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage, that the right guard.
Speaker 1: Was actually the center.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which the way everybody's packed in on a field
Speaker 2: goal and whatnot, and you're standing that far away, you know,
Speaker 2: with a look down the line of scrimmage, that's plausible
Speaker 2: to me. And if he thinks that that Vikings right
Speaker 2: guard is the center and not a right guard who
Speaker 2: is lined up off side, then I can understand why
Speaker 2: he thinks Edgrin Cooper ends up lined up offside. It
Speaker 2: doesn't excuse it to me. It's poor officiating if that's
Speaker 2: the case, But I think that's actually a somewhat plausible
Speaker 2: explanation for how that flag gets thrown When you look
Speaker 2: at how everybody was lined up and where the flag
Speaker 2: came from.
Speaker 1: When does the flag need to be thrown? Though?
Speaker 3: That's what I'm curious about, because if you watch the
Speaker 3: all twenty two and again, I have to say, it's
Speaker 3: almost like the field goals missed before the flag comes out.
Speaker 2: Oh really, I didn't notice that part of it.
Speaker 3: Let's go back and watch this afterwards. Okay, but I
Speaker 3: mean it's not like the ball was snapped and the
Speaker 3: flag comes out. I don't believe that's how that went down.
Speaker 2: Because if you're saying a guy is lined up, if
Speaker 2: you're saying a guy is lined up offside or if
Speaker 2: he jumped the snap, yes, then absolutely the flag should
Speaker 2: be coming out immediately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't should be meming out.
Speaker 3: Let me go back and look and if I'm wrong,
Speaker 3: I'll correct myself on Thursday.
Speaker 1: But to me, that was the other thing.
Speaker 3: It seemed like the kick was missed and then now
Speaker 3: I'm seeing a flag like and by the way, there's
Speaker 3: an advantage to that because Will Reiker ended up getting
Speaker 3: another try at that kick. In addition to it being
Speaker 3: five Beard's closer. The Mason Crosby thing just rings in
Speaker 3: my head all the time with this stuff. Now these
Speaker 3: guys that is gold to kickers, to be able to
Speaker 3: have an extra shot at these things, no doubt.
Speaker 1: So again it is what it is. We all move forward.
Speaker 3: It's not like the Packers were just being absolute world
Speaker 3: beaters at that time and that broke up their momentum.
Speaker 3: They had opportunities well before that, They had opportunities after that.
Speaker 1: Yep, agreed, It's just it my diet tribe.
Speaker 3: I win on on Twitter and I ultimately ended up
Speaker 3: deleting this because what's the point. But these aw shucks
Speaker 3: penalties happen all the time, and it may not be
Speaker 3: Green Bay, it may end up being a Minnesota. It
Speaker 3: could end up being Detroit. The Vikings, They've had stuff
Speaker 3: happen to them before in the past. Somebody's gonna get
Speaker 3: eliminated from the postseason on one of these things, yea,
Speaker 3: And then we will all be like, oh darn it,
Speaker 3: and the talk shows will discuss it the following day.
Speaker 3: A month will pass, two months will pass, and everybody
Speaker 3: forgets that it ever happened. But next fall when we
Speaker 3: come back and nothing changes. These are the things that
Speaker 3: ultimately end up bubbling back up to the surface.
Speaker 2: I apologize for the long explanation and perseverating on that.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to point out that the individual from
Speaker 2: Cheesehead TV, whose name unfortunately I cannot remember, I can
Speaker 2: get he he posited to me the what I think
Speaker 2: is the best explanation for how that call happened, because
Speaker 2: I was completely baffled as to how the flag gets
Speaker 2: thrown there until I saw what, uh oh.
Speaker 1: It's Bruce Irons. Bruce Irons and Bruce Irons, okay, thanking thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: He said that the Vikings being offside so bad made
Speaker 3: it look like the Packers were offsides.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And by the way, all.
Speaker 3: This would be could be saved if we would go
Speaker 3: back to the Dean Blandino era of like the NFL
Speaker 3: officially just explaining why calls are made.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we don't get that anymore.
Speaker 3: Right now, you can't even interview these guys after the game.
Speaker 3: If you ask for like an actual interview the poor report,
Speaker 3: you're talking to the league office. Now you're not even
Speaker 3: talking to the official anymore. So it's like we are
Speaker 3: so far past the rumicon at this point.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I do have to take care of
Speaker 2: some sponsor business. Here so serious x MNFO Radio delivers
Speaker 2: hard hitting analysis and up to the men NFL news
Speaker 2: that true football fanatics need twenty four to seven, three
Speaker 2: sixty five And at Cousin Subs, we have something for
Speaker 2: everyone like our Wisconsin Cheese kurts, mac and cheese, golden fries,
Speaker 2: and creamy shakes, all paired to your favorite sub or
Speaker 2: sub in a bowl. Cousin Subs fifty plus years of better.
Speaker 2: All right, before we go, we will just review where
Speaker 2: the Packers are in terms of the playoff scenarios. The
Speaker 2: five seed is out of reach with the loss to
Speaker 2: the Vikings. The Packers sitting at eleven and five trying
Speaker 2: to get to twelve and five facing the Bears here
Speaker 2: in week eighteen. If the Packers win and if Washington
Speaker 2: loses to Dallas, the Packers will have the sixth seed.
Speaker 2: If Washington defeats Dallas, the Packers will be the seven
Speaker 2: regardless of what happens against the Chicago.
Speaker 1: And both those games are at the same time.
Speaker 2: One both games are both games are noon Central time kickoffs,
Speaker 2: And refresh my memory the Washington Dallas game is being
Speaker 2: played where.
Speaker 1: Because I don't recall it's being played in Dallas.
Speaker 2: Mike's being played in Dallas, so I eventually got there. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Mike McCarthy, the former Packers head coach, can help
Speaker 2: out his old team potentially if if the Cowboys can
Speaker 2: beat the Commanders. But so, it's either it's either the
Speaker 2: six or the seven seed for the Packers, and you
Speaker 2: we all know that if it's the seventh seed, then
Speaker 2: the opening playoff opponent would be the Philadelphia Eagles because
Speaker 2: they are locked into the two seed in the NFC. Obviously,
Speaker 2: the big game in the NFC coming up is the
Speaker 2: one four the one seed in the first drawn by
Speaker 2: It will be the last regular season game of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four Slash twenty five. Sunday Night Football Week eighteen
Speaker 2: will be the Vikings at the Lions.
Speaker 1: The winner.
Speaker 2: The stakes here are incredible West for a game that's
Speaker 2: not do or die, but the stakes are the winner
Speaker 2: is the one seed and the loser is the five
Speaker 2: seed and having to go on the road in the
Speaker 2: first round of the play.
Speaker 3: And the first ever fourteen win wildcard team, which is
Speaker 3: going to happen when you have seventeen games out but
Speaker 3: still fourteen wins.
Speaker 1: It might be a while before.
Speaker 2: We have a fifteen win wild card team again, though that.
Speaker 1: Might happened to the North again next year too.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, who knows, we'll see. That's pretty unusual though,
Speaker 2: But that's the big one in the NFC. It's for
Speaker 2: the one seed and the first droun buy for the
Speaker 2: NFC North Championship. All that the loser will drop to
Speaker 2: the five. The packers will get either the six or
Speaker 2: the seven, depending on what they do and what Washington
Speaker 2: does against Dallas. So that's how the scenarios are setting
Speaker 2: up here for Week eight.
Speaker 1: So I was supposed to go to Vegas.
Speaker 3: Well I did go to Vegas becuse my intention with
Speaker 3: going to Vegas in June was I was going to
Speaker 3: see the Connor.
Speaker 1: McGregor fight, right, okay, and a bunch.
Speaker 3: Of stuff happened. Connor ends up pulling out of it.
Speaker 3: They have to save the card. So there's this guy
Speaker 3: named Alex Piheeda who you won't know, but he's the
Speaker 3: light heavyweight champion of the UFC. He steps up and
Speaker 3: he decides on like, I don't know, three weeks in
Speaker 3: otis four weeks. Notice, he's gonna defend his title against
Speaker 3: the guy that he beat and it's like a big
Speaker 3: headliner for this pay per view. That's what the Minnesota
Speaker 3: Vikings and Detroit Lions did for the NFL in Week eighteen.
Speaker 3: There is no main event this week. There is one
Speaker 3: spot even up for grabs in this as far as
Speaker 3: the entire playoffs are concerned, in or out, and those
Speaker 3: teams don't even play each other. Yeah, so you have
Speaker 3: Minnesota and Detroit. They come down to the wire here
Speaker 3: the most improbable scenario possible of two fourteen win teams
Speaker 3: competing for a division title and the number one seed
Speaker 3: in the playoffs, and it completely bails the league out
Speaker 3: from I think probably otherwise it would have been Kansas City.
Speaker 3: If if the Packers win, right, and San Francisco does
Speaker 3: what it does and there's no meaning behind Detroit Minnesota,
Speaker 3: I'm guessing they probably flip Minnesota in Detroit, keep that
Speaker 3: at three twenty five, and probably have Kansas City in Denver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because does the play because in the whole AFC
Speaker 2: thing to determine the final spot, Denver is the one
Speaker 2: in control if the Broncos. If the Broncos win, they
Speaker 2: get in. If the Broncos lose to Kansas City and.
Speaker 1: Car Wentz as the quarterback.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if the Broncos lose to Kansas City, then it
Speaker 2: opens the door for either the Miami Dolphins or the
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Bengals to take the final spot.
Speaker 1: I agree with.
Speaker 2: I think that's what they would have done. They would
Speaker 2: have had my You know, Cincinnati's already playing on Saturday,
Speaker 2: they have Miami play on Sunday, and then those teams
Speaker 2: have to sit and wait and see what and see
Speaker 2: what happens with Denver on Sunday night. But the league
Speaker 2: got the Lions Vikings game, So that's what's there, and
Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see because, as I said, the
Speaker 2: loser of the Lions Vikings game is going to go
Speaker 2: to the five seed is gonna be going on the
Speaker 2: road in the wild card game, going on the road
Speaker 2: coming off of a Sunday night game in Week eighteen.
Speaker 2: I wonder if what ever wild card game that loser
Speaker 2: is involved in is automatically going to be the one
Speaker 2: on Monday night. I think it probably Wildcard weekend. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just in terms of the kickoff times and kind of
Speaker 2: trying to even out the rest and whatnot, because you're
Speaker 2: certainly not going to put that Wildcard game on Saturday, right,
Speaker 2: the loser of that of the Sunday night game Packers
Speaker 2: is having to play on Saturday. But I think that
Speaker 2: might end up being that might end up being the
Speaker 2: Monday night the final of the six wild card games.
Speaker 2: The loser of the Lions Vikings game will be in
Speaker 2: that one. That's just my guess.
Speaker 3: Well, and then it is interesting too because we were hoping, well,
Speaker 3: the league was hoping probably for like some more drama
Speaker 3: there with the NFC West that gets completely sorted out
Speaker 3: because of all the dominoes felt. The Rams end up
Speaker 3: clinching even you know, even though.
Speaker 2: In Arizona, and Arizona was what six yards away yeah,
Speaker 2: six yards away on Saturday night from winning that game
Speaker 2: against the Rams and setting up a winner take all
Speaker 2: NFC West showdown between the Rams and the Seahawks. Instead,
Speaker 2: the ball hits off I think it was off McBride's helmet,
Speaker 2: and the defender makes a diving interception in the end
Speaker 2: zone saves the game for the Rams, and then the
Speaker 2: tiebreaker ends up getting clinched on Sunday. So the Rams
Speaker 2: against the Rams against the Seahawks is not for the
Speaker 2: NFC West title. The Seahawks have been eliminated, and it
Speaker 2: only impacts the potential seating for the Rams.
Speaker 3: We gotta go. I know you got an eleven o'clock
Speaker 3: am lunch day here, but we didn't get a chance
Speaker 3: to talk about this. But isn't it funny how the
Speaker 3: timeout thing came into play again on Sunday Night football
Speaker 3: as well, where I'm telling you, man, like there used
Speaker 3: to be that role, Like what was it like under
Speaker 3: eight or something in like Domofskio just said you never
Speaker 3: go for two unless it's under eight. That was like
Speaker 3: an old standard. If we were to create a new standard,
Speaker 3: if you have a pass play that generates over what
Speaker 3: fifteen twenty yards, you call the timeout of immediately.
Speaker 2: Exactly that And coaches used to do that. I mean
Speaker 2: it used to be almost automatic that they would do
Speaker 2: that because they knew how much time it would take
Speaker 2: because of the ball being that much further downfield to
Speaker 2: get everybody line up, whether it's to spike it or
Speaker 2: or to try to run another play, whatever the case
Speaker 2: might be. And uh yeah, I mean Atlanta, Atlanta taking
Speaker 2: not even using, not even using their last time out
Speaker 2: and having to try a fifty six yard field.
Speaker 3: Goal with your backup kicker with your back, Riley Patterson.
Speaker 1: It was unbelievable.
Speaker 2: As soon as as soon as Drake London caught that ball,
Speaker 2: I mean, I was thinking, all you had to do
Speaker 2: is fall backwards to a lot of bounds. He didn't
Speaker 2: get out of bounds. But then as soon as you
Speaker 2: see the referee signaling to wind the clock, you have
Speaker 2: to they had two timeouts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should have.
Speaker 2: Had a first down with thirty seconds left and still
Speaker 2: one time out to go as you're near, as you're
Speaker 2: almost to midfield there, and instead they don't even get
Speaker 2: the next snap off until there are seventeen seconds left,
Speaker 2: and you're still sitting with two timeouts. Like it just
Speaker 2: it made it made no sense. And you're right, we're
Speaker 2: seeing we're seeing the clock management across the league now getting.
Speaker 1: Poorer and poorer.
Speaker 2: Crazy because it and there's actually a question that I
Speaker 2: saw an insider inbox that I'm going to answer for tomorrow.
Speaker 2: It's almost as though coaches are getting way too obsessed
Speaker 2: with not leaving a single second on the clock in
Speaker 2: an game scenario that even you know because and you know,
Speaker 2: because of Patrick Mahomes having enough timeouts to get a
Speaker 2: field goal against Buffalo in the playoffs with thirteen seconds
Speaker 2: on the clock, it's like you can't leave, you can't
Speaker 2: leave any time. Well, you know, if the other team
Speaker 2: doesn't have any timeouts or only has one time out left,
Speaker 2: leaving ten seconds on the clock is not the end
Speaker 2: of the world. Like, do what you do to need
Speaker 2: to do to get your team in the best position
Speaker 2: the field. Position there is more important than what is
Speaker 2: on the clock and not burning a time out. That probably,
Speaker 2: quite frankly, it probably cost Atlanta the NFC South Yes
Speaker 2: title one hundred percent because they had it. They it
Speaker 2: was a tremendous final drive. Michael Pennix Junior, the rookie
Speaker 2: quarterback two fourth down conversions including the one for the touchdown,
Speaker 2: and then and then they blow the clock management and
Speaker 2: probably the division championship just just based on not using
Speaker 2: a timeout.
Speaker 3: You've got to help your rookie quarterback that has been
Speaker 3: a starting quarterback for two This is not Prime twenty fourteen,
Speaker 3: Aaron Rodgers. This is a guy that is extremely talented,
Speaker 3: has second enough of I start, and he's been playing
Speaker 3: NFL regular season football for two weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't give him the time out there.
Speaker 1: I mean it unbelievable.
Speaker 3: I might have been able to understand I might have
Speaker 3: been able to understand this if it was Matt Lafleur
Speaker 3: calling the offense and he's gotten whatever. Raheem Morris is
Speaker 3: a defensive minded coach. I mean he has he has
Speaker 3: a very eclectic background as far as coaching, but like
Speaker 3: it's not like he's sitting there trying to figure out
Speaker 3: what the next play is.
Speaker 1: Like it just I I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it cost that. I think they I
Speaker 2: think Atlanta costs itself a division championship by not calling timeout.
Speaker 2: And that's it's pretty pretty amazing.
Speaker 3: Well what was right after your defense just got an
Speaker 3: amazing stop of the Jayden Daniels to get that opportunity exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jaden Daniels becomes the hero in overtime. Nobody's talking
Speaker 2: about the fact that they went three and out with
Speaker 2: the opportunity to win the game and gave the Falcons
Speaker 2: the opportunity to win the game in regulation on the road.
Speaker 2: But last thing with regard to the Packers playoff scenarios,
Speaker 2: because they didn't mention this, if the Packers were to
Speaker 2: get the sixth seed, they could play either the Rams
Speaker 2: or the Buccaneers, depending on how those games. The Rams
Speaker 2: are playing the Seahawks, the Buccaneers are playing the Saints.
Speaker 2: So if it's the seven, it's the Eagles. If it's
Speaker 2: the six, it could be one of two opponents, Los
Speaker 2: Angeles or Tampa Bay. So I just wanted to clear
Speaker 2: that up. And last, but not least, the countdown to
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty five NFL Draft has begun. Green Bay
Speaker 2: is hosting this year in case you didn't know that,
Speaker 2: and you won't want to miss it, so mark your
Speaker 2: calendars for April twenty fourth through April twenty six of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and visit green Bay dot com slash
Speaker 2: Draft twenty five for more information. We've gone way over time.
Speaker 2: We apologize, especially to our producer Zach, but he'll deal
Speaker 2: with it and for less, I am Mike. Thank you
Speaker 2: for tuning in everybody, Happy New Year, and we'll see
Speaker 2: you next time.