WEBVTT - Ep. 112: Salmon 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.680 severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:24.880 You can't predict anything, ye don't even before we started. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.760 Can you read tell me what you were saying earlier 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:37.000 as a version of saying something's real big oh tron, Yeah, 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.519 i'd a fella tell me. He called he wished us 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:46.080 good lucky hunting, but we're gonna be turkey hunting with him. Yes, 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:49.960 he's excited, but he was in an earlier email not 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.239 that he's excited about with us, but he's excited about turkey. No, 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.240 he definitely wasn't excited about going with us because he's 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.560 serious about it and he don't want to be fiddle 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:58.840 farting with us when he's out there trying to kill 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.480 his Missouri bird. So you don't we're not gonna hunt 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.400 with him. We may or may not, but he might 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.000 already have one, you know, down by the time we 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.320 can get there, because we're coming in for day three 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.280 of the season, so these guys are gonna have two 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.360 days to start the season. Anyways, he was wishing his 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.200 good luck, and he was saying in an email, Hey, 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.959 if I can't you know, if this doesn't work out, 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.440 good luck killing a Missouri gobbletron. Yeah, but I hadn't 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.399 heard that. I don't like it, not to disparage, not 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.800 to smirch your disparage the guy, but like, I don't 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:38.080 like that because I just think of robots a tron 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:43.440 to add tron on the end, Yeah, big, like AI turkey. 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.240 So it's smarter than the regular turkey. Maybe that's what 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.080 he's getting at, right, like like robotics, like artificial intelligence. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.360 Maybe even smarter than the average turkey. Because where I 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.600 don't where I stopped especially stopped liking it because when 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:03.520 you said, it's similar to saying something's mondo. Yeah, we 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:05.760 could go around the room someone said to you, Dan, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:11.520 if they're like, hey, man, gobbol tron, would you be like, 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.239 what does that mean? Or you have an idea? I 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:17.680 would be like, what do you like? Do you mean 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:25.280 something that's mando or something that's real? Shy, Mondo isn't 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.680 even a word. We We're hanging out with a guy 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:30.959 who runs, who's a houndsman, and he had been doing 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:36.280 a lot of work down in Mexico on research projects. 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.280 So I thought that we would see a track and 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.320 he'd be like, that's a Mondo track, and I thought 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.240 it was a Spanish word, So I right away like that, 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.480 and I started picking up in my head everything as 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.400 big as mondo. But isn't that a system for shoe 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:56.160 sizes too? Though? Mando isn't it? Webster says, definition of 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:02.400 mondo adverb slang extremely That's what I thought, So I 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:04.240 thought that he was well, not that I thought he. 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.200 I thought, you speaking in Spanish, And I'm like, if 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.680 there's a Spanish word to means the giant freaking track, 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.799 I'm on that word. So I adopted before I even 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.280 really clear what he's saying. Then later I'm like, hey, man, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.520 what does mando translate to? He looks at me, like 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.480 what do you mean? He goes, It's not mando, it's mango, 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:28.240 you know, humongous. So that's what of mondo track is. Ah, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.960 you're right, So the whole time he was just saying mango. Yeah, 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.240 but we like ran with it and we're like, mando 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.320 is the way to go because I used toad, pig, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.720 big and big, huge, giant, great big great bigg and 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:54.680 pigg stomper. No, yes, I wanted to touch on that. 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:01.200 No one other quick order, but is Dirt up Smith 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:06.000 is joining us here in dirt you. You know, more 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.560 people have been writing about your your chewing tobacco problem. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.160 Do you care to have me give your uh some 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.839 up of what their suggestions are? Yeah, just for other 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.560 listeners struggling with addiction to one guy said there is 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.880 one of everyone. Another guy came and said to us, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.039 a guy rode in to say that, in fact, you're wrong, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.680 and there is a chew that has no Oh, I 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.719 saw that. Yes, it's just nicotine, right, is that what 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.000 you're talking about, But it doesn't have the nicotine the 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.600 part that naked dawf all off and you die. So 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:42.800 that's a part of it. Yeah. And I have a 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.880 buddy who did that. And those things they're speaking of, 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.520 like AI or like technology, a thing that is just 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.279 nicotine that you put in your mouth just seem you 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.719 know what I mean, forget what they're called. Yeah, but 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.599 I tried them. That didn't help. No, I mean, you 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.680 catch your buzz, but you know old habits, you still 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.760 got you nice little buzz. Yeah. Yeah, but I did 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.320 see that. I think you shared that with me or 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.760 someone instagrammed it to me or something, you know, Bryce 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.479 and Joe, who weird this ice fishon with? Well, they 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:17.080 chew grizzly, And so you put me in an uncomfortable 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.719 situation because one day I was asking you what kind 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.359 of chew do you say? And you said, I have 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.440 a good job. I don't choose grizz. I chew Copenhagen. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.680 So I saw that they had griz and so no 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.040 one that you had told me this, and I put 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:30.800 a lot of faith in what you tell me. I said, oh, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.560 it's too bad you boys don't have good jobs. And 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.440 it didn't go over real. Well, well, no one wants 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:43.279 to hear the truth, you know sometimes, and then Steve 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.320 pointed out to them that all, do you have a 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.240 good job, you know, live out of your truck for 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.800 a little bit. Yeah, well that's what someone else point 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.320 out with, you can't have hecative a job. He lives 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.840 in his truck. Well, you know if he lives at trailheads, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.599 if he's like a weird like when you go to 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.640 the trail and there's a weird guy be there, contact 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.119 or it's probably dirt. He's got a tin of cope 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.240 and you know what's him saving them? Saving the rent 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.800 for two and Adventures all right, before we move on 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:13.240 to what we're here to talk about, I want to 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.000 just get out. I want to find out how much 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.960 dirt's gonna get out of this conversation. So name for me, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:28.280 if you can, the five species of Pacific salmon. Okay, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.919 that we that that that that come to the inhabit 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:44.440 us waters, the layman's name or the common name silver chimp, sakip, pink, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:54.479 biggin's bigg and yet yeah, now name the one in 0:06:54.520 --> 0:07:02.120 the Atlantic. I gave you the answer when a big 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.159 in salmon. No, I gave the answer after that. It 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.160 was buried within the question. It was like their day 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.160 when my daughter said to me, what's one thousand and two? 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.320 Meaning what happens when you add one thousand and two? 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.280 And I was like, you just said it? What salmon 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.800 lives in the Atlantic? Is this the question you posted 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.440 to me in the start? Because I'm thinking to two 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.480 when you started the question. No, okay, I'm giving you 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:31.680 the answer, what salmon lives in the Atlantic? Oh Atlantic salmon? 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:38.480 So we got yeah, no, no, we're good. So Dan 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.880 so that that's dirt myth and and then um Janie 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.360 Poodles is here, and then we're all speaking to my 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.880 brother Danny, who I mentioned all the time whenever fish 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.000 comes up, because uh, fish biologists, fisheries what do you 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.320 like to say? Fish biologists? Fisheries biologists. But but that 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.680 involves a lot more than fish. Yeah, I know, I know. 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.880 Um yeah, my like the current job title I'm working 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.560 under is a fisheries biologist, but uma, my background is 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.640 pretty as well rounded in aquatic ecology and um, I've 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.720 done work with a lot of work with habitat and 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.200 aquatic insects and food webs and that sort of stuff. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.160 So didn't it come up with you first? Like your 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.600 first kind of work was around aquatic invertebrates. Yeah, that 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.280 was kind of my path into fish. But yeah, I 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.080 got really interested in them as an undergrad working on 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.000 a fisher fisheries degree, and um, yeah, the first part 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.160 of my career was spent entirely on aquatic insects and 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.760 I'm still fascinated with them, but uh you know, yeah, 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.000 now it's mostly just through the avenue with them being 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:47.160 fish food. Yeah. If you were gonna like, what percentage 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.480 of your time do you spend thinking about and talking 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:55.240 about um issues having to do with salmon, it's most 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.680 of my time, most of my professional time. And why 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.960 is that? I mean, one you like, but because it's 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.000 because there's an industry around it and so there's money 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.360 to support it. I mean that that's that's certainly part 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.240 of it. But I mean you have to do work 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.160 that people care about, and you know, when you're when 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.319 you're working in Alaska and I'm a freshwater biologists, I 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:22.440 don't really you know, operate on the marine end of things. Um, 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:27.000 you know, in terms of Alaskan freshwaters. It's just you 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:32.360 can't overstate the importance of salmon, you know, culturally, economically, ecologically, 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.440 just incredible. They define Alaska. And you'd like to fish 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.640 them too? Oh I love to fish them. Yes, yeah, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.720 it's some one of my favorite things in the world. 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:47.160 And the as Dirt pointed out so eloquently, there are 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:53.640 um five species of salmon on the Pacific coast of 0:09:53.679 --> 0:10:00.000 the US, and all five of Colonel Alaska. Yes, yeah, 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:05.040 run through real quick what the five Pacific salmon are 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.080 with like a kind of a basic sense of like 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.760 what their groove is, okay, yeah, just in terms of 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.080 how they and then what's up with the Atlantic salmon? 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:16.960 Why is there only one over there? Um, so the 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.480 the five Pacific salmon um, we have the pink or 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.160 the humpy salmon. Yeah, that's good too, because every salmon 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.720 has two names as which is totally it's like weird 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.679 that way, and they're one that has more because there 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.599 are all there are different names. You know, down in 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.920 the Northwest, I mean, you know, they're like Schinook salmon. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.640 They have different names. In British, Columbia, Washington, they have 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.840 a million names. But so pinks and humpies within Alaska 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.600 each has two that are sort of in common usage. Yeah, 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:52.839 so pinks and humpies and um they are the smallest 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.640 and most common of the salmon, and they have a 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:00.840 sort of a that's the most common salmon numerically, Yeah, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.439 most numerically abundant of the salmon. Um. They're just everywhere 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.080 when the pink salmon run. You've been seeing them in 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.400 the you know, when you're around the small coastal streams, 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.400 like down around the fish shack or even up in here. 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.760 But yeah, when the when the humpies are in there 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.440 in thick you know, and there's just thousands of them 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:20.160 everywhere you go, and the whole place stinks like dead salmon. Yeah, 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.120 they're just incredibly abundant UM, so they know they have 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.080 a short life history. Every pink salmon that that that 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.480 that is spawning in the creek is two years old. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.120 It was laid as an egg two years prior to 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:36.199 that um and that's just that's set in stone pretty much. Yeah, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.720 it's yeah. So so when you have a river that 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.959 has a pink salmon run that returns in odd years 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.960 and a pink salmon run that returns in even years, 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.760 those are two completely separate populations of pink salmon, both 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.559 with their own separate population dynamics, and so one of 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.960 those could plummet for whatever reason. Oh yeah, it's incredibly 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.199 lopsided in some places like that. And I can't remember 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.480 if it's odd or even like the Fraser ever down 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.160 and down in British Columbia, in one year it gets, 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.719 you know, millions and millions of pink salmon, and then 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:09.600 the next year it gets essentially none, and it just 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.199 alternates every year like that, so odd, you're even you're 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.200 you know, it's gonna be good or not good. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.040 And that's shifts depending on geography and and over long 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.320 time spans, it probably shifts. You know within an area, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.200 an area might turn from a pink to it, or 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:22.960 from an odd to an even or whatever you know. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.840 But some areas are pretty even. In some areas are 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:31.160 more lopsided. But really two separate populations. Okay, so that's 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:36.080 pinks and humpies. What's their Latin name? On karnis They're 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.600 all on kakus. That's how you pronounce it. Wh Yeah, 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.440 that's how I pronounced the least yeah and uh and 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.719 hump and the humpy is is gorbushka. I think it's 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.800 how it's pronounced that rushes Russian. Yes, yeah, I believe so. 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:55.280 I believe so. Um. But but pinks are uh life 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:00.200 history wise they um, that's with all of the Pacific them. 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.280 And they are spawned in the sort of late summer 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.000 or fall, and eggs incubate sort of into the winter 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.880 and hatch kind of maybe late winter early spring and 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:15.719 pink salmon uh upon hatching, and they absorbed the yolk 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.920 and emerge from the gravel and they leave the river. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.640 They just migrate to freshwater. Rent if they hatch, they 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.440 don't linger. They don't linger. No, And why do pinks 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.400 like pinks don't run long distances? No, they're there are 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:29.720 a lot of there as a lot of them spawned 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.320 sort of inner tidal areas and low in river systems. 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.800 They're just adapted using that part of the watershed. Yeah, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.120 you know, they might run a couple hundred yards. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.800 you seem spawning in intertidal areas on that freshwater lens. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.840 You know, they migrate into the lower into the estuary, 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.200 then drop back out as the tide ebbs and flows. Yeah, 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:50.960 and when they come out of their egg, they're right 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.319 out in the ocean. Yeah. Well, they come out of 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.240 the egg and they s level little yolk attached, right, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.480 and they once that yolk is absorbed and then at 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.000 that point their jaws fully developed and they start feeding 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.240 sort of on their own. And by that point, yeah, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.320 those pinks are just following the current and they I think, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.520 you know, they started a time they're hatching too. Are 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.360 there emergence to coincide with um sort of the spring 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.000 run off, and they just kind of follow that down 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.720 to the ocean. When those when the salmon's eggs are 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:21.400 laying there, like the salmon their eggs like take a 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.440 pink for instance, his eggs don't stick to the rock 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.040 they're just laying like in and sheltered areas out of 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.600 the current between rock. The they're actually buried. I mean, 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.280 the female excavates the nast the red and the and 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.200 she lays the eggs there and they're fertilized, and and 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:45.240 then she'll ba actually bury them under gravel. Yeah, you 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:46.720 see him digging out but I don't know this, so 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.320 they really cover them up. The ones that aren't covered. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.480 She'll take a pocket and then you know, screwed up 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:53.800 stream a little bit and dig another one and that 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.040 kind of falls back on the previous pockets. She started 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.400 taking a series of these pockets and lays eggs and 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.960 them and then buries them as she It goes along, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.440 So march long to the next So where does when 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.400 does the mail come in? As she those eggs are 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.760 fertilized as she's dropping them. Really yeah, I mean you 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:13.920 can see it, and you see them. They'll they'll sort 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.360 of they'll sort of uh sandwich upside by side and 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.720 they're there. You see that. They'll open their jaws and 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.760 even kind of quiver a little bit, you know, and 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.800 like that's the action right there. I didn't like. And 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.360 he's even see the milk drifting down the current. You 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.760 see a male like when you see a female laying, 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.800 you see her like the way. So that's digging. You're digging. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.520 Because I was saying this here day, Like when we 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.800 used to fish steelhead, you'd be staring into a place, 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.040 you know, steelhead hang out. I couldn't tell they're anything there, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.480 and you catch the female flash. That flashing is the digging. 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.440 She's like laying on her side. And picture like if 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.560 you put your hand on the bottom and the rocks, 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.880 you lifted it up, you'd create some suction, right and 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.480 that would kind of pull the rocks up. That's that's 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.440 what she's doing with her whole body. Okay, yeah, so 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.160 I have pictured it. I didn't. I didn't of this. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.080 I had in my head my whole life here that 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.040 they lay the egg down and the mail comes in 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.040 somehow fertilized the sitting egg. But they need to do 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.320 it in tandem. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's happened all at once. 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.800 Can you real quick talk about before we get back 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:18.280 to the other ones. Can you talk about when when 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.520 you like the act of fertile when you're furt like 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.320 doing artificial and salmon in salmination of salmon eggs in 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.320 a bucket. Uh huh. I remember saying one time that 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.880 you saw were there's like a five gallon bucket of eggs. Yeah, 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.960 and someone would put in like a table spoon. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:43.000 stuff shockingly potent. Yeah, tables a squirt right, like, yeah, 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.720 like a squirt of seamen. Stir that bucket up with 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:51.080 this ladle a spoon and be like that bucket is fertilize. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:56.000 this was in some uh uh, some little hatchery experience 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.560 I had in my in my undergraduate days. But yeah, 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.680 they would take a a bucket of salmon eggs and 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.840 take a they would just squirt. I think that you 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.679 would use a few males to make sure that they 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.320 had you know, good viable one and a little maybe 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.560 little diversity. Um, but just a little squirt of sperm 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.160 from each of those fish and do a big bucket 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:15.920 of eggs, stir it up and they're good to go, 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.480 ready to roll? Yeah, Okay, march onto the next fish, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:26.040 um up in the size. Let's go from Like, we 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.959 can't leave the humpy until we talk a little bit 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.200 about like why does he get that funny shape when 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.159 he comes back into Yeah, yeah, we can do that, 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:37.960 but I was planning on coming back with some other 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.439 other issues, But yeah, why not talk about why they 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.320 call them humpies while they come home? It's at humpy. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:49.080 The humpy term refers to the big kind of pumped 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:54.800 back that the male or male pink salmon gets during spawning, 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:59.600 and it's crazy hook jaw yes, yes, um, And so yeah, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:04.560 those are secondary sexual characteristics I guess analogous to the 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.000 ornamentation on a bird or something like that. And they're 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:11.960 just demonstrating their The hump makes them look bigger and 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.560 more opposing, and the hook jab makes them look rougher 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.040 and tougher, and they they use that to display and 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.200 for aggression, to compete for females, you know, with other males. 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.399 So that's him getting tricked out, getting pimped out and 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.439 ready to spond. Yeah. Do you know, like, are you 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:34.320 familiar with the late um geneticist Stephen Jay Gould? Yes, 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:36.800 a little. He had a point he made one time 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.880 and one of his books I was reading, We're He's 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.359 kind of getting that something I'm sure you deal with 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.600 and talk about all the time would be that, like 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.240 we don't know why things become the way they become 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.320 and he was using an example like someone might look 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.720 and be like, wow, bark, right, bark is brown? What's 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:57.119 the genetic what's the selective advantage of brown bark? Like 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.520 why is it brownie? What is the tree gaining from 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.400 having brown on bark? And he would say, maybe what 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.159 the tree is doing is that there's an advantage to 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.000 having very thick bark, something structural in that, because it 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.680 can resist forest fire. So the advantage of the thickness 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.760 of bark um as over the years it's selected for 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.480 thicker and thicker bark. It just so happens for for 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:24.520 maybe perhaps no advantageous region reason at all, that it's 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.960 obtains a certain color. But we look and ponder over 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.160 the color, thinking like why is it that way, when 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.000 it's just there's no reason. It's that it's like green leaves. 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.480 There's nothing special about that color. It's just, yeah, the 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.960 tree isn't gaining from having green leaves, or the color 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.879 is a byproduct of some other but in this case 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.040 it does seem like so. But in this case, like who, 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.159 like maybe some other reason, like why they get a 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.879 big hump and a hook jaw, or is it so? 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.480 Like obviously it has to be that it has that 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:01.720 because it's like a competitive selective. It's so many other 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:08.880 species have you know, sort of well breeding, similar types 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:14.879 of secondary sexual traits that come out during breeding. Um. 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:20.840 And you know salmon lived for multiple years that those 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.919 traits don't appear until you know, right right at the 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.879 time spawning. Yeah. And it makes sense because it's a 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:31.360 competitive environment. Yeah, I think, like, yeah, jockeying for favor. Yeah, exactly, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.439 and it fits with their mating structure. Yeah, I mean 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.480 it makes sense and it probably takes some amount of 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.240 energy to do it, oh for sure, for sure to 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:44.119 trade off. Yeah yeah, um our fish? Is it true? 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.560 Can you say generally like fisher like birds where the 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:55.560 males do a lot more ornamentation? There flash here man's 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.080 on the salmon world for why I But yeah, I 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.200 think so. I think so. And parental care tends to 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.359 be males and ornamentation tends to be males females in 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.560 that regards, unlike birds, because the parental care among the 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.600 fishes tends to be fall more in the males. Um. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.719 But in terms of ornamentation, yeah, I think so. And 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.239 then with the salmon, are the males all bigger than 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:24.639 the females. No, that's a that's I don't think so, 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:29.879 that's a good question. I think it's the females on average, 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:31.359 tend to be a little bigger, tend to be a 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.120 little bit heavier than the males. I think. So, so 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.439 when you catch a big, huge king, it could be 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:43.879 either sex. Could be either sex. Yeah, yeah, are you 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.800 cool on that? I'm cool man. I think at the 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.600 top end, I can picture some big males. But on average, 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:53.240 the females might be a little bigger. They tend to 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.560 livel they tend to be a little older. On what species, 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.960 just salmon in general. Yeah, well, well pinks are always 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.119 coming back at two. Why shouldn't say that? Not pinks, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:04.880 the others. Yeah, the other one, the ones we haven't 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:06.840 got too yet, the ones we'll get into. So what's 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:13.760 the next one? Um, let's just moving up the So 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.199 I mean you think a pink salmon is being you know, 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:22.720 quite marine right right, because they they um spend relatively 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:27.000 little time in freshwater. Um, and so chump salmon have 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.800 sort of a similar life history and that they oh, 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.440 that's a good observation. They don't spend like they have 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:35.760 to have the fresh water, but they just don't spend 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.800 any time. They're only user for breeding. Yeah, I mean 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:44.000 as soon as that um, as soon as the fry 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:49.400 emerges from the gravel, like they can handle saltwater right away. Um, 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.639 which you know, the other salmon started to have a 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.000 more bottled transformation and they yeah, they they're out of there. Yeah, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.879 so he's dead. They all die when they're two. And 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:05.359 he could have spent eacon freshwater as a free swimming fish. Yeah. 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:12.760 Um so yeah. Chump salmon um have a somewhat similar 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.679 life history in that they go to see soon after 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:22.600 emerging from the gravel. Um. A lot of chump salmon 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.600 are also spawned sort of coastally low in the watershed. 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.200 But there are, but there are some some chump salmon populations, 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.400 like the Yukon River in Alaska, for example, where chump 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:37.960 salmon move a really long way up rivers. Um. You 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.720 didn't say the two names for chums, chump salmon and 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.439 dog salmon would be the two. I'm sure there are others, 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:45.480 but in those are the two that are common usage 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:50.960