1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Quality bus. But Joseph's gotten more. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: There are certain cases over the course of time that 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: enter into a very sad portion of our lexicon I 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: think here in America, and many of them are known 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 2: by a variety of different names. It's a I think 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: that it's a convenient way for the media to latch 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: onto something. They can create memories with their customers out there, 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: which you know, for the media, you are their customers, 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: and it initiates immediate recall where it can take you 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: back in time because it seems as though that we 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: have so many, so many deaths and it's hard to 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: remember them. And that's a very sad commentary, I know. 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: But the cases I'm focused on today are actually the 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: infamous yogurt shop murders. But you know, those in and 15 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: of themselves, for young ladies that were killed at a 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: business establishment, essentially executed by at that time an unknown assailant. 17 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 2: Tragic in and of itself, but unfortunately there has been 18 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: another name now attributed to this monster who killed those 19 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: four young ladies. The victim that we will be talking 20 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: about today is a young woman who died way back 21 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: in the nineties and she was kind of forgotten that victim. 22 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:55,279 Speaker 2: Her name is Linda Rutledge and she died. She died 23 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: at the hands of the yogurt shop murderer, serial killer 24 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: Robert Brasher's I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks Dave. 25 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: This is one of these individuals who I don't know. 26 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: I mean, it seems as though that we haven't seen 27 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: the last of him. I'm wondering how many more cases 28 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: are going to be attributed to Brashers as technology continues 29 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: to develop and we begin to kind of unravel some 30 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: of these cases that are out there that for years 31 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: and years have have been, you know, seemingly unsolvable. Maybe 32 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 2: science is finally finally catching up in many of these cases, 33 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: you know, at least that's our hope, right. 34 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 3: It's fascinating that when you were talking about Brashers, you 35 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 3: know that the yogurt shop murders, because there are four 36 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: young girls, all in their teens that were murdered in Austin, Texas, 37 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 3: and you know, was labeled the oo group shop murders, 38 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 3: and trying to solve that it was very difficult, and 39 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 3: over the years I'd seen many different killers associated with 40 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 3: that crime. Hey, they could have done it this person 41 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: might have done it, you know, and as you mentioned, 42 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: as the technology has grown as DNA and genetic genealogy 43 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: and friend of ours seem more at pairbon. I mean, 44 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: you've got people like that that are turning new leaves 45 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: over every day, and not on crimes that are solved, 46 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: but crimes that are unsolved and tying people back that 47 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: he had no idea. This guy's been dead for you know, 48 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: since nineteen ninety nine and he did or ninety eight. Anyway, 49 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: he did himself in you know, that's you know what Joe, 50 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: when he died, did you know none of these murders, Okay, 51 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: the man that was a serial killer when he took 52 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: his own life with his own daughter's speed away, he 53 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 3: had never been tied to any of these murders. 54 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, And that's something. Yeah, he essentially, I 55 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: don't know, I'll be rude about it. He smoked hisself 56 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: essentially in a hotel room after having held his family 57 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: hostage for almost four hours day. This gutless coward went 58 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 2: beneath a bed and put a gun to his head. Now, 59 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: fortunately his family were able to escape the hotel room 60 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: where he had held them hostage. You know, I'm fascinated 61 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: by this sort of thing. He strikes out at people 62 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: outside of his family, but never attacking them. And you know, 63 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess if we had a forensic 64 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 2: psychologist here, we could kind of maybe unpacked this a 65 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: little bit. But just to give you a little insight 66 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: into something I was thinking about not too long ago, actually, 67 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: this conversation I had with my wife because there was 68 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: this case that had popped up on the radar about 69 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: a fellow that was going out and he would commit 70 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: these egregious crimes after having gotten into an argument at 71 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: home and he would target people. It really and I 72 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: had worked a series of serial homicides in New Orleans. 73 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: I may have mentioned this before, but it was involving 74 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: a fellow who was kind of a diminutive guy, I remember, 75 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: and he had a girlfriend that was kind of tiny, 76 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: and every time they would get into a fight, he 77 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: was kind of one of these retiring, yes, dear kind 78 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: of guys. This sort of thing. He would go out 79 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: Dave and pick up prostitute and sodomize them and strangle 80 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: them to death with a bit of wire. And this 81 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: happened several times. I think he to his credit, I 82 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: think he killed maybe six or seven I mean, certainly 83 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: within the parameters serial killer. But it's almost like this 84 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 2: reaction to an environment that he may have been living 85 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: in at home. And I really, I really wonder about 86 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: this individual. You know, when he would go out and 87 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: he would kill people that he had no contact with, 88 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: did not know them. I'm wondering if this is a 89 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: reaction to something that's going on within his brain. It's 90 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: not necessarily that he's going out to hunt like you know, 91 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: you think about Ted Bundy or something. This is like 92 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: a reactive thing. You know, I can't strike out my family, 93 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: but I'm going to go strike out at some you know, 94 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: faceless stranger out there. These four young women, you know, 95 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: for instance, in the in the yogurt shop, and I 96 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: think all told right now, Dave, is this correct that 97 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: Brasher's to his credit, they've given him credit for. I 98 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: don't know what is it like like eight eight plus 99 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: that we know of right now, the multiple multiple sexual 100 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: offenses as well and adjacent that. 101 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: I think the eight murders so far, And the reason 102 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: I say so far is because these murders were not 103 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: attributed to him until after his death. Okay, he didn't 104 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 3: serve prison time for any of these, but he did 105 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: serve prison time. And to back up a little bit, 106 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 3: I was looking at his history a little bit because 107 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: we found out that his daughter, Deborah, actually lives in Huntsville, Alabama. 108 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 109 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and when a lot of. 110 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 3: The story started breaking in twenty eighteen, I think they 111 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: exhumed Brasher's body and they needed some more DNA and anyway, 112 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: the long story longer is that caught my attention because 113 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: with you know, the activity you and Noah and Kimmy 114 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 3: have had up in Huntsville lately, it's a mind for me. 115 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: You guys are there every other day, it seems, so. 116 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, we do. 117 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: We do go up there a lot. You know, my 118 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: son lives up in that area around there now and 119 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: so we do visit up there lot. What a beautiful location, 120 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: what a dynamic place, Hunstville, Alabam. I love going to 121 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: visit up there. But yeah, you know, his daughter Deborah, 122 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: she actually, you know, going back to this idea of 123 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: you know, kind of this and I don't know if 124 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: this is true or not, but you know, you you know, 125 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: she's reflective of her dad. You know, she talks about 126 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: happy memories, right, that she had had with him when 127 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: they were back in Arkansas, right, Dave. They would go 128 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: out on outings, canoeing, swimming, camping, bonfires and all that. 129 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: But there was a two year period of time. 130 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: It was. 131 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 3: It was really and it shows you how important years 132 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 3: are for children. Sometimes we forget. She's talking about a 133 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 3: time of two years when she was about seven years 134 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: old and she had two sisters that were twins I believe, 135 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: and half sisters, and she talks of the time when 136 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 3: it was the three girls and mom and dad and anyway. 137 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,599 Speaker 3: But to give you an idea, I believe it was 138 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: almost a jeckle and hide thing. Joe. Yeah, that the 139 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 3: side that his family saw was inconsistent. Okay, he would 140 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: be gone for extended periods of time. Now, his daughter 141 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: Deborah said she thought it was him doing construction work 142 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 3: out of town. But now when we look at some 143 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 3: of the attacks that have already been attributed to him 144 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 3: and some that haven't yet, I think we're going to 145 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 3: find out that on more than one of those trips 146 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: he killed somebody. But she was talking about how in 147 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 3: Valentine's Day that he actually came to school with a 148 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: single red rose for each of his daughters had individual bases, 149 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: and he took it to their classrooms and gave it 150 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: to them. And for a little girl in elementary school, yeah, 151 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 3: daddy doing that is a big deal. And that's what 152 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 3: she remembers of her dad. But then what I was thinking, Joe, 153 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: you know he was an army in the Navy. Did 154 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 3: you know that? 155 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And isn't that an odd odd? I mean, 156 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 2: and listen, I've known I've known people that have served 157 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: in in you know, in multiple multiple branches of the military. 158 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: You know, not everybody just goes into the Navy and 159 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: states in the Navy. I've got a really good friend 160 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: of mine that started out of the Navy and was 161 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: a ceremonial guard at where was the oh for the 162 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: Secretary of Defense actually in the Navy, and then got 163 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: out and then went back in in the army. So 164 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: it's a it's not uncommon for that to happen, but 165 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 2: it is kind of a unique little twist on this 166 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: on this tail I got there's something else here too. 167 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: It's amazing how you know you were talking about Deborah 168 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: and about her reflecting back all these years later, those 169 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: happy moments there used to be and I'm probably going 170 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: to get this wrong there. But there's a a an 171 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: old adage about feeding somebody vinegar for most of their life, 172 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: and then every now and then you get a spoonful 173 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: of sugar, and it makes it makes you kind of 174 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: dismiss some of the really bad stuff that you had 175 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: to take on because you remember those one little moments 176 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: in time where you got that little burst of sugar, 177 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: that sweetness, and I think about these kids, you know, 178 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: what was going on inside of that household? You know, 179 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 2: is that one of those sugar moments? You know that 180 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: she you know reflectively, because you had mentioned this, we 181 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 2: were talking about this off air. How is it possible 182 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: that somebody like this could hide these behaviors? And obviously 183 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: back then, I think, in particular, you know, days prior 184 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: to social media and certainly cell phones and all these 185 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: sorts of things, that that's one of those things where 186 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 2: it was much much easier, I think to hide. Nowadays, 187 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: I think that it would be much more difficult. 188 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 3: What say you, buddy, Well, I you know I was 189 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 3: looking over his the army Navy thing, okay. And he 190 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 3: was born in Newport Newsbury, just outside of Norfolk, Okay, 191 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: which is a huge Navy base. Right after he got 192 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: out of high school, he joined the army and then 193 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: he went to the Navy after that. In Fort Myners, Florida, 194 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five, that was his first attempted murder and 195 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 3: sexual assault. He meets a girl. They go out drinking. 196 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: They kind of close the bar down, pick up a 197 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 3: six pack, and they're sitting in his truck and out 198 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 3: of nowhere, he attacks her and she's like, no, I'm 199 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 3: not having sex with you. Yeah, I'm drunk and we're 200 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 3: you know. Uh. He pulls out a gun and shoots 201 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: her in the head and in the neck. She crawls 202 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 3: away from the truck and he's drunk, can't find her, 203 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 3: so he goes to the beach, drives his truck onto 204 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 3: the beach before and throws his gun out on the beach, 205 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 3: out in the water in the ocean, and then he 206 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 3: gives his truck stuck. So he's walking up and down 207 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: the beach trying to find help to get his truck unstuck. Meanwhile, 208 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: the girl that he thought he'd killed, she has crawled 209 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 3: on her hands and knees and blood. In the middle 210 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: of the night to an apartment complex where a man 211 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 3: finally offers her help and they get help to her, 212 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: and before they get her to the hospital, she gives 213 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: a description of the vehicle and the man, and she 214 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: lived and he was arrested. They picked him up on 215 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: the beach, so he went to jail right then. Now, 216 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: this is what was interesting when I was looking at 217 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: the coverage of this, Joe An attempted murder, shooting a 218 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: woman twice and leaving her for dead. You would think 219 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 3: that you're going to life, You're going to prison for 220 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 3: a long time. No, he got sentenced to twelve years, 221 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 3: and I'm not kidding, this is nineteen eighty five, eighty six. 222 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: He actually was sentenced to twelve years in prison in 223 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six, but he only served three got out 224 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: in May of nineteen eighty nine. And the one thing 225 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: about this, that time in prison, he was not going 226 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 3: back to prison, he really was that. That's it. I 227 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 3: ain't going back. But the rest of his life was 228 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: one big chaotic mess, almost killing that woman. I just 229 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: have to wonder it didn't stop there. Other than that 230 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: three year period of time that he was in prison. Joe, 231 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 3: I think he probably killed at least one person a year. 232 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: For every year including I think, yeah, I think that 233 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: you're probably right. And let me this is I'll hold 234 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 2: forth on this just for a second. And this idea 235 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: of these correction models, you know that we hear about 236 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: because you know, people I work with people that teach corrections, 237 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: you know, in a criminal justice apartment. I'm in forensics, 238 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: but I have friends. One of my best friends is 239 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: correction professor, corrections professor. And you know, I sit here 240 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: and I think, to me, at least the way the 241 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: system is set up, this whole idea of rehabilitation model, 242 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: how much let me ask you this, Dave, how much 243 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: rehabilitation could take place in twenty seven months after you 244 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: have popped off two rounds into an innocent woman and 245 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: tried to sexually assault her, and then you, like a coward, 246 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: you slip back into the night and you know, try 247 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 2: to you know, evade any kind of capture. You know, 248 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: So you're telling me that twenty seven months is sufficient 249 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: to get you back up and running, to get out 250 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: into society and taking that, taking that and listen, this 251 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: is not minority report. We cannot predict what somebody is 252 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 2: going to do in the future. However, there are certain 253 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: little markers that you can look for and if you 254 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: take the idea that you've just stated that when he 255 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: got out, his life is chaos. What's he going to 256 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: go back to? And he begins to potentially in the 257 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: lives of other people in those following years. That's terrifying. 258 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: You know, if you're a family member, you want to 259 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: go try to put your hands on somebody that made 260 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: this decision, because it's you know, how you going to 261 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: how are you going to get them back? 262 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: Man? How you going to know? Joe? There's something else 263 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: fascinating about this to me. 264 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: Okay, he gets out of prison May have nineteen eighty nine. 265 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 3: February eighteenth, nineteen ninety two, he's arrested in year Old 266 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: Stopping Grounds, cob County, Georgia. Yeah, all right, he's arrested 267 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 3: there for grand theft auto. Now what do we know 268 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 3: took place between May of eighty nine and February of 269 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 3: ninety two the. 270 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: Yogurt shot murders. 271 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: Yes, they happened in nineteen ninety one, so he's not 272 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: caught that time. From eighty he gets out of prison 273 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: May of eighty nine, he's not caught till February of 274 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 3: ninety two, and then it's not for murder, rap or 275 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: anything else. He gets arrested for grand theft auto, unlawful 276 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: possession of a weapon, and he had burglary tools and 277 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: things like that. Now here's the catch, Joe. He actually 278 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: copped a plete because he was looking at a really 279 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: long sentence, you know, because of the first assault and 280 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 3: attempted murder. This grand theft auto can with all the 281 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: other stuff with it, he was going to go twenty years. 282 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: So what he does he negotiates a deal. He pleads 283 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 3: guilty to the grand theft auto, but they drop all 284 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: the other charges. He gets a five year prison sentence. 285 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 3: Got to serve every day, so he did between February 286 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 3: when he was arrested in ninety two until he gets 287 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 3: out of prison in ninety seven. February of ninety seven, Joe, 288 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: he's in prison. The world is safe outside of prison. 289 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 3: But from the time he got out of prison until 290 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 3: the time he took his own life, there was chaos, 291 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 3: murder and rape. 292 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there was. And you know, echoing back to 293 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: what you had mentioned just a moment ago, the yogurt 294 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: shop killings, Well they took place in Austin, Texas, and 295 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: correct me if I'm wrong, brother, But that was back 296 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: in like December of nineteen ninety one. For all those 297 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 2: many years that he was on the inside, nothing happened. 298 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 2: But when he got out again, hell was unleashed. And 299 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: we go all the way to Kentucky, all the way 300 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: to Kentucky on November the seventh, nineteen ninety eight, where 301 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: a young woman loses her life, not too dissimilar from 302 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 2: the way those victims in Austin lost theirs. We have 303 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: this beautiful young woman. I say young. She's young relatively speaking, 304 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: you know, from my perspective, but yeah, beautiful all the same. 305 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: She I'm looking at a photo of her right now. 306 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: Our names Linda Rutledge, and she she looks a lot 307 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 2: kind of like a smaller version, if that's possible, of 308 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: Meg Ryan back in the nineties. And she's got that 309 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: kind of pixie style haircut that's blonde short, and she's 310 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: got this brilliant, you know, thousand watts smile, real diminutive 311 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 2: looking and just looks like she, you know, may have 312 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 2: been the kind of soul in the world that you 313 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: would that you would want to meet. But you know, 314 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 2: back to that November seventh of nineteen ninety eight and Lexington, Lexington, 315 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: Kentucky Police up there responded to an event that happened 316 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 2: at a hearing aid business. 317 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: A fire. Yeah, it was a hearing aid thing. 318 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 3: Be four hours, Joe, yeah, or you you know, like 319 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 3: seven thirty in the morning or something like that. I mean, 320 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: how do you have a fire start in a building 321 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 3: that's for hearing impairents? You for hearing aids? 322 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 2: Well, how do you have one start in a yogurt shop? 323 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: Well? 324 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: Okay, I mean you know, let's just say, do we 325 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: see a pattern development here? You know, and just just 326 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: think about this, Dave. This poor woman is she found 327 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: and let's just say that her death was less than peaceful. 328 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: Well that gosh, it wasn't from fire, was it. 329 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It certainly wasn't. And you 330 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: know this this involves you know, on the show we 331 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: don't I generally do not talk about firearms related desks 332 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 2: a lot. There's so many of them. But in this 333 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: particular case day from a forensics perspective, firearms and the 334 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: tracking of firearms and you know, rounds that are spent 335 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 2: actually come into play in this particular case, and it 336 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: was linkage. Ultimately between the Austin Austin, Texas Police Department 337 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: and the authorities in Kentucky. 338 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 3: Right, well, yeah, I remember now this is November seventh, 339 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety eight. Police are called there's a fire at 340 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 3: this hearing hearing a place. When they show up to 341 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 3: put the fire out, they find Linda Rutledge. She's in 342 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: a back hallway and the fire, you know, was to 343 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 3: cover up her murder. She's been shot in the face. Now, Joe, 344 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 3: when they were first investigating all of this, once they 345 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 3: realize that we have a woman who has been shot 346 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 3: to death and the fire ostensibly set to cover up 347 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 3: that crime, which I don't if you use if you're 348 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 3: gonna shoot somebody in the head, a fire is not 349 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 3: going to cover up the bullet wounds. You know, the 350 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: bullet holes are still going to show in the skull. 351 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 3: So I'm guessing somebody thinks it's a wise thing to 352 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 3: set a fire to get rid of I don't know, 353 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 3: fingerprints and other evidence. 354 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, they always do. And you know, I think 355 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: that for what little they might understand of trace evidence, 356 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: which I don't know how much they do. If you've 357 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: if you've been in the joint, I think probably that's 358 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: that's a discussion that might be had amongst some of 359 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: your colleagues, the fellow in in car rated colleagues there, 360 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: they might talk about that sort of thing. I have 361 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 2: no idea, but you know, you might think that everything 362 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 2: is eradicated. But as I've always stated and will continue 363 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 2: to state, the the idea that you're going to get 364 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: rid of everything with fire is is false. Now let 365 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 2: me put it to you this way. In the yogurt 366 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 2: shop case, okay, cases rather, I don't want to disrespect 367 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 2: the dead cases. I think that fire was utilized in 368 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: that case. 369 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: And hey, Joe, back up to that a minute. 370 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, just hey, guys, just over really clear. 371 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: Both of these cases, the Yoger Shot murders from ninety 372 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 3: one and the ninety eight Lexington murder fire both they 373 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 3: were cold cases. Yes, they both were not solved until 374 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 3: many years later. And the Lexington murder of Linda Rutledge 375 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: was tied back to the yogurt shop murders because of 376 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: a shell casing on a bullet. 377 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: Correct. 378 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was at the Yogurt Shot murders. Joe, 379 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: what happened there? 380 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: Well, you've got these four young women that are inhabiting 381 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 2: this shop, the yogurt shop, and fella comes in. They 382 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 2: don't know who he is, but he makes his way 383 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: in there and essentially rains down hill on these four individuals. Now, 384 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 2: they didn't all work there, Okay. I think that some 385 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: people are in the impression that all these young ladies 386 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: worked in there and they were pulling a ship together, 387 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 2: and that's not the case. One I think, if I'm 388 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: remembering correctly, was actually waiting for a ride. 389 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 3: With Jennifer Harbison and Eliza Thomas for both seventeen they 390 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 3: were working. Sarah Harbison is Jennifer's little sister. She was 391 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 3: just there with her friend Amy Ayres. They were just 392 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 3: there hanging out, waiting for Jennifer Harveston to get off work. 393 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, And you know they're just buddies hanging out 394 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: and listen, how many times over the years have I 395 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 2: don't know, the thing that comes to mind, I can't 396 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: believe it's not yogurt shops you know that are out there? 397 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: How many times and this is the same this is 398 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 2: the same kind of business. How many times have we 399 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: walked in there? And I know that when my kids 400 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: were little, we would go to I can't believe it's 401 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: yogurt shop. There was a couple of them that we 402 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 2: went to, and you just hang in there, hang out, 403 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: and it looks like the most innocuous, non violent place, 404 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: oh god, in the world. And most of the time 405 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 2: they're like in a strip mall, you know, adjacent to 406 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 2: maybe bigger stores or something, and you get a lot 407 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: of teens that are in there over pier time, particularly 408 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 2: at night. I think that it used to be used. 409 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: It's maybe like a first date location, or after we 410 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 2: go to the movies, let's go get yogurt, that sort 411 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: of thing. But who would think that someone would come 412 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: into this location, and not only the person that perpetrated 413 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: the yogurt shop killings. They they when they found these victims' 414 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 2: bodies in there, Like you'd mentioned, there had been fire set, 415 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 2: which means that he, this perpetrator had to show up 416 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: with accelerant in hand. Okay, I didn't know about it that, Joe, Yeah, 417 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, where you're going to find a 418 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: where you're going to find accelerant in an I can't 419 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 2: believe it's not yogurt shop, and so he comes prepared, 420 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: I think to do this. He has bound them. He 421 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 2: has gagged them, and he killed all of them execution 422 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 2: style by shooting them and with a handgun. Now, at 423 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 2: at that scene, Dave, and you had mentioned this just 424 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 2: a moment ago, there were there were shell casings found. Well, 425 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: that shellcasing that was found at that scene also matched 426 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: a shell casing that was found in Lexington all these 427 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 2: years later, you know, almost it's pretty close to a 428 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 2: decade later, right, and that the shellcasing itself, those two 429 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 2: shellcasings actually matched up in the national database that you used. 430 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: I think, if I'm not mistaken, I believe that that 431 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: the ATF essentially has control over you know, over the 432 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: over this database. Uh. And so anytime you have like 433 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 2: so folks understand because you hear a lot about things 434 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: like uh DNA databases, certainly aphis with fingerprints. People don't 435 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: think about firearms, okay most of the time, but when 436 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: you have a firearm in an unknown case, like in 437 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 2: a homicide case, the scientific examination of each one of 438 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: the elements, whether it's whether it be a shellcasing or 439 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: the actual projectile that's either recovered at the scene or 440 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: covered in the body, all those little scratches instruations that 441 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: are on the surfaces of each one of those items. 442 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: They're actually entered in to the nib on bi IN network, Okay, 443 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: which is the database that is controlled by the ATF. 444 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 2: It's the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network. Do you want 445 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 2: to hear something interesting about why this thing is set 446 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: up and why it's controlled by the ATF. Well, the 447 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 2: ATF actually does, or has done for years and years, 448 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: a lot of work involving game related killings. And there 449 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 2: were so many. You remember back in the eighties in 450 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 2: particular where you know, we drive by shootings became all 451 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: the thing. How many movies were made, you know, I 452 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: remember the movie Colors that came out with Robert Duvall 453 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: and Sean Penn, and it highlighted the drive by shootings 454 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: in LA and they were happening everywhere. We had them 455 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 2: in New Orleans back during that time. Well, the ATF 456 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 2: became really focused in this area, and they knew that 457 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 2: these weapons, these weapons were associated with organized crime groups, 458 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: whether it be outlaw biker gangs, street gangs, any kind 459 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: of organized you know, cartel people or any kind of 460 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 2: other organized crime syndicates or whatnot. And there was like 461 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 2: you could there was like a network of these weapons, 462 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 2: and some of these weapons. Fascinatingly enough, we actually had 463 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 2: a guy in Atlanta that would rent weapons to perpetrators 464 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: and then they would bring them back to him and 465 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: he would send them out again for a rental fee. 466 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 2: You believe that, Yeah, we had. 467 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 3: We actually because I need a gun that's been used 468 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 3: to kill eleven people and all had blue eyes, you 469 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 3: have one like that. 470 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: Well, the thing about it is, and I remember this 471 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: when it happened, because I'd never heard heard of such 472 00:28:54,720 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 2: the ballistic matches on multiple unassociated homicides. We're coming back 473 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 2: to a single platform, and you knew that it was. 474 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: It's the same person that was involved in it. So 475 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: it gets rather dicey. And so this database was actually 476 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: set up, and I know I don't have all the 477 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 2: exact details, but this is kind of the genesis for 478 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 2: this thing. How it happened. And because ATF i'l cahol 479 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: it back of firearms, all right. It used to be 480 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 2: called ATFE, but we understand they work with explosives. E 481 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: stands for explosives. I was saying ATFE for years and years. 482 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 2: They said, no, it's back to ATF now. At any rate, 483 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: I love working with those guys. But at any rate, 484 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 2: they they set up this network. And now because of 485 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: cases out there withknown unknown weapons or questioned weapons where 486 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,239 Speaker 2: you have a bit of ballistic data and you have 487 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 2: to plug it in to see if there are any 488 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: other matches around the country, there might be a chance 489 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: that you're going to get a hit on it, and 490 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: in this particular case, they did. And it goes all 491 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: the way back to a known serial killer with Linda 492 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: Rutledge in Lexington, Kentucky. One of the things that stood 493 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 2: out in her case is that she's not shot once, 494 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 2: she's not shot twice, She's shot multiple times in the head. Dave, 495 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: I've often wondered why people do that. You know, most 496 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 2: of the time, if you're in a dominant position, which 497 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: is a position of what's called a symmetry, you're in 498 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: an asymmetrical position. Generally, if you're talking about an execution 499 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 2: style shooting, the person is many times kneeling before you 500 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 2: or on the ground before you, not you. The universal 501 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: us it apply perpetrators wilding weapons and the individual is 502 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 2: fired fired into I think that many people out there 503 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: might think that, you know, one round would not be sufficient. 504 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: I guess it all depends on how randomized the shots are. 505 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: If you're if an individual is proficient at shooting, uh, 506 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: you know, generally one round will do the trick uh 507 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 2: and put an individual down. Say, for instance, there their 508 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: shot in the area of the you know, the primal 509 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: brain area back in the back of the brain stem 510 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: is and this sort of thing, you know, kind of 511 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: this classic imagery that we have of people being executed. 512 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: And but it's always kind of fascinated me that people 513 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: would would fire multiple rounds and here here's something else 514 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 2: because there's a bit of a bit of inefficiency here, 515 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 2: I think, and I think that some of the psychopathology 516 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 2: kind of rolls over into their inability to be efficient. 517 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 2: You got somebody that is raging out there, that's on 518 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: kind of an adrenaline dump, and they're doing this, and 519 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 2: I think that that's what this is all about. Again, 520 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: I think that not everything's related to sex. I don't 521 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: want you to think that, but I think that it's 522 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 2: all about domination, control and sex. He's going to pump 523 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: multiple rounds into her, and you know, Dave, every time 524 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: he does that, every time he pulls that trigger, every 525 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: time that hammer slams forward, every time that round is 526 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: ejected out of that port. Every time a projectile travels 527 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 2: down that rifled barrel of a tiny three eighty caliber pistol, 528 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: he's leaving behind more evidence. With each shell that is ejected, 529 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: each round that comes out, he's just populating that area 530 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: with more and more evidence. And here's the thing. Let 531 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 2: me tell you what we can figure out from this. 532 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 2: First off, you know, it's the standard stuff that we 533 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: think about with range of fire, how far away was 534 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: the end of the muzzle from the contact position where 535 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: they were shot. But here's something else. One of the 536 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: big questions we always have it scenes is if you 537 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 2: have multiple gunshot ones. A big question that you always 538 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: have to ask in firearms related desks is is there 539 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 2: more than one weapon? Is there more than one weapon? Well, 540 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: pretty quickly with a case like this, if you find 541 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: the area surrounding, which would have been difficult by the way, 542 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: because in this young woman's case there was fire involved, 543 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: you're going to find multiple spent casings in this area. 544 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: Now I'm going to ask you a question. I know 545 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 2: the obvious answer would it be would it be common 546 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: practice to walk into a hearing a shop and find 547 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 2: spent brass on the ground? No, it wouldn't be. So 548 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 2: you have to believe logically that that spent brass, those 549 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: spent shell casings are in fact associated with this case. 550 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess some lawyer could argue, well, the 551 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: guy that works there loves guns and he's spread spent 552 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 2: shell casings everywhere. 553 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what you do with them, Joe, That's it. 554 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 2: And this individual is not taking time to pick these 555 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: up either, which is something else that you know, we've 556 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 2: talked about this with recently with the Ohio the Ohio 557 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 2: double Hoss out there, you know where they're saying, they 558 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: keep saying multiple gunshot wounds, but we only have three casings. 559 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 2: And yeah, and we kind of talked about, you know, 560 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 2: did he hang around in there long enough to pick 561 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 2: up the shell casing? I don't know, I really don't. 562 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: But at any rate, at this particular case in Lexington, 563 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: shell casings were left. You've got this this woman who 564 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 2: has been executed in this business and then set on fire. 565 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 2: I think the big question is, you know, looking back 566 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 2: through time, and we're going all the way back to 567 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, what were her behaviors prior to that? 568 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 2: When had she been spotted by this guy? When did 569 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 2: she enter onto his radar? You know, she's not an 570 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 2: unattractive person. Did he follow her around in this area? 571 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: What the hell's he doing in Lexington, Kentucky? Because you know, 572 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 2: if you're if you're in Lexington and this guy David 573 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 2: Am I correct? But I could have sworn that I 574 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 2: saw that. He He's got cases that are in multiple states, correct. 575 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, Arkansas, Missouri, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas. 576 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's migrating around a lot. 577 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 1: But you also got to remember, Joe. 578 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 3: After Austin and the Yogurt shot murders in ninety one, 579 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 3: what happens he's in Making, Georgia in ninety two when 580 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 3: he's arrested on the stolen yeah vehicle charge and goes 581 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 3: to prison for five years. He gets out of prison 582 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 3: and we have the Lexington murder by the way ninety 583 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 3: one Yogurt case, cold Lexington case ends up going cold 584 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 3: Stone roll. Yeah in between there, Joe, you know what 585 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 3: got me is seven forty in the morning. You get, all, right, 586 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 3: a fire, I get that fires can start, electrical whatever, 587 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 3: But to find a woman shot to death at that 588 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 3: time of day just seems odd to me. You know, 589 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 3: when you mentioned Where did they come in contact? Where 590 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 3: did he see her? How did he know there was 591 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 3: anybody even working at a hearing aid places at that 592 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 3: time of the day, you know. 593 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: Don't you know? I got to tell you, I've got 594 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 2: my primary doc. Where I go there is a hearing 595 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 2: specialist next next to and I know they have business, okay, 596 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 2: But I got to tell you, brother, I don't see 597 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 2: like a whole line of like the parking spaces are 598 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 2: always empty in front of it. It's not like my 599 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 2: doctor's office where you've got to hunt and peck to 600 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 2: try to find a parking spot. How does he come 601 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 2: in contact with her in there? And I think that's 602 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of going to be an everlasting question. 603 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 2: But Dave, there was genetic material that was left behind 604 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 2: in this case, and I think that CC Moore had 605 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 2: something to do with this. Is this correct relative? 606 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 3: It's so unusual how this all worked out, because you know, 607 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 3: when you go to fit when you know that we've 608 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 3: got these two cases tied together by a shell. But 609 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 3: I'm I have trouble grasping Joe is that between ninety 610 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 3: one and ninety eight he was in prison for five 611 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 3: years and came out I had the same gun. You're 612 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 3: gonna tell me that in all that time that you 613 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 3: were gone, nobody found and got rid of the gun. 614 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 3: I mean, did he have it? Does he have like 615 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 3: a stash of murder weapons that he kept? Like you 616 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 3: know that crazy guy did that sold the sowed the 617 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 3: girl's eyes open. I mean, I'm just really bothered by 618 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 3: how much this guy did in very brief periods of time, 619 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 3: because you know, it wasn't just Lexington, neither Joe. It 620 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 3: wasn't just that murder. You realize that he also was released. 621 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 3: He was arrested for breaking into a woman's house in 622 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 3: April of ninety eight. A woman he had done some 623 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 3: work in Arkansas. He breaks into her house early in 624 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 3: the morning and cuts the phone line and a video 625 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 3: camera and some locksmithing tools. He's caught with those after 626 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 3: he goes to the and breaks into this woman's house. 627 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 3: He gets arrested. But you know what, somehow he got 628 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 3: bonded out with his record of everything, he still got 629 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 3: bonded out of jail, and then six months later kills 630 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 3: in Lexington, Kentucky. 631 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 2: Yeah go ahead, brother, go ahead. 632 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 3: Well both of these cases were cold. I say the 633 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: ninety one case in Yogur The yogurt shot murders were cold. 634 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 3: The Lexington case was cold. We're talking about coming up 635 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 3: to in the last ten years. Ccmore. In twenty eighteen, 636 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 3: Paara Bond Nanilabs doing some investigative genetic genealogy. Uh, they 637 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: actually identified Brasher when they were going trying to, you know, 638 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 3: building out a suspect for the murders and several rapes, 639 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 3: not not Austin, not the yogurt murders, not Lexington, but 640 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 3: for murders that were happening in other places. Prosecutors from 641 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 3: New Madrick County and PENM Moscott Pemiscat in Missouri, they 642 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 3: out filed motions to exhume this guy's body so that 643 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 3: they could do additional testing. And it was in twenty 644 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 3: eighteen the casket of brashers remains were exhumed and they 645 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 3: were able to extract DNA from his bones. And that's 646 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,800 Speaker 3: how we come to finding out everything we know about 647 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 3: this guy up until then, Up until twenty eighteen, Joe 648 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 3: didn't know he was a serial killer. 649 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 2: No, it didn't. And I got to tell you, can 650 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 2: I go back to something you said about how did 651 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 2: he have the weapon? You know, what you know, what 652 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 2: term comes to mod murder kit. We talked about murder 653 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: kits before Wow, and it's it's something that's that's associated 654 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,959 Speaker 2: with serial killers that they you know, how it said 655 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 2: that he obviously showed up to the murder to the 656 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 2: yogurt shop with devilment on his mind because he had 657 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 2: the ability to bond and jag and also start a fire. 658 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 2: Right who shows up? Who shows up to a hearing 659 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 2: age center with an accelerant present? So I think that 660 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 2: he had the stashed away. Now you know, I actually 661 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 2: hosted the guy that put the put the handcuffs on 662 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: on Dennis Raider. BTK hosted him my previous university. And 663 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 2: what a fascinating story this was. He talked for Oh 664 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 2: my lord, this guy must have talked for four hours. 665 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 2: It was him and his partner and they came in 666 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 2: and he's the guy that's actually in the interview room 667 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 2: with BTK. When BTK they asked him directly, did you 668 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 2: do it? He's like, I'm BTK, like wow, And he's 669 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 2: the guy that puts the bracelets on him. And so 670 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 2: he was telling me about Raider's house and he was 671 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 2: telling me about how he had all and he's a 672 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 2: souvenir collector too, and how he had the stuff squirreled 673 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 2: away behind the staircase, right, and he had this all 674 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 2: of his things that he valued in the world, you know, 675 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 2: that were set aside. I think that there was a 676 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 2: kit that he had as well. Remember Raider interestingly enough 677 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 2: of cutting phone lines as well, you know, when people 678 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 2: had hard lines going into the house, and so that's 679 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 2: kind of a connection thing. And Raider was also someone 680 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 2: that was not on the radar of his family. No, 681 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 2: he was committing all this stuff. So you know, you 682 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 2: think about the pathology that's involved here, I think, Dave, 683 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: you know, kind of talking about this and thinking about it, 684 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 2: you know, with this poor woman who you know is 685 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: long since deceased since nineteen ninety eight, died, you know, 686 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 2: at the hand of this person so horribly at forty 687 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 2: three years of age. I don't know, Dave, I really 688 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 2: don't know if she's going to be the last one. No, 689 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 2: I still have questions, you know. I think that we 690 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 2: did thinking back on it, we did. We did cover 691 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 2: previously the identification in the yogurt shop case, because that 692 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: was a big splash when that happened. I can't remember 693 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 2: the date of it. But here we are again. We're 694 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 2: back with this monster brasher. You know. Look, I hope 695 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 2: for his family wherever they are. I hope that they're 696 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,240 Speaker 2: healing in their own way. And you know, his daughter, 697 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about her right now, but I'm also thinking 698 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 2: about all these other lives that he touched along the way. 699 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 2: And I don't mean in a good way. There was 700 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 2: no benevolence about this guy. This guy was pure evil 701 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 2: and I just wonder how many other cases are out 702 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 2: there that perhaps perhaps dave through the use of forensic 703 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 2: genetic genealogy. We're going to find out more, and you 704 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 2: never know, as time goes by, there might be more 705 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:59,439 Speaker 2: added to the list. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 706 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 2: is his body backs