1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our own 4 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: lucky number. Our super producer, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: M Max Lucky Number, Sleven Williams. 6 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're no Brown. I am Ben Dollan in 7 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: these parts. Yeah, and our pal Max is very big 8 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: into fantasy football, so much so that Max, you told 9 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: Noel and yours truly that your group chat text messages 10 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: would be blowing up. 11 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, No. I always tell people am like, hey, 12 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 3: if you have something important to send me during the 13 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: football season, do not text that to me, which is 14 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: the inverse what most people say. But it's like because 15 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 3: if you said it to me, text it just gets 16 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: into the giant pile of fantasy football stuff. By the way, 17 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: my favorite number forty one. 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: And that's where we're going with this. This is an 19 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: episode all about numbers. So Noel Max has a favorite 20 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: lucky number forty one or just a favorite number for 21 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: his own personal mythology. Do you find yourself possessing a 22 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: personal favorite lucky or unlucky number? 23 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I do, and it's nonsense. I don't remember when 24 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 4: I was a young lad writing bad poetry that was 25 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 4: very esoteric and you know, pretentious. 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: I don't know. 27 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 4: I've I got focused on this number, eight hundred and 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 4: forty five because I would do these sort of like 29 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 4: cut up experiments where I would just like take words 30 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 4: from random pages that I would find friends' houses. And 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 4: I think there was like a crossword or something where 32 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 4: someone had written the number and the margins, and of course, 33 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 4: you know, with what's the word baiter Mainhoff situation. I 34 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 4: just see the number everywhere, and it's in all my passwords, 35 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 4: and I'm kidding, it's not. It's in a handful of 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 4: my usernames though, but yeah, it's irrelevant. It's just my 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 4: mind glommed onto that number for some reason. 38 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that now, of course, fellow 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, I am not going to reveal my own 40 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: personal mythology of lucky or unlucky numbers. But for a 41 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: lot of folks, just like you were saying, Noel, this 42 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: can be a whimsical icebreaker type of question. But for 43 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: other people, as we're gonna find, this is very serious, 44 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: deadly serious. Habitual lottery players often have lucky numbers, as 45 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: do other gamblers, even professional athletes. 46 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: Right, how you choose. 47 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: Your jersey number, business tycoons, how you close the deal? 48 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: This concept goes across every imaginable demographic. Interesting fun fact 49 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: speaking to personal preference. Stephen King, the lionized author of 50 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: American literature, he is obsessed with the number nineteen, and 51 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: he will talk about it at length. 52 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: What's the hotel room from the Shining. 53 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Oh, oh, from the Shining, not from the in the 54 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: first story? 55 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think in the book it's three seventeen, 56 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 4: and then in the Kubrick film he changes the number. 57 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 4: But then no, maybe it's two seventeen. Anyway, it's something 58 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 4: like that. It's different in the book in the number. 59 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 4: But then in the new Zach Kreeger horror film that's 60 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 4: quite good weapons he uses that number that he claims 61 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 4: and interviews he just must have internalized it. 62 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: It wasn't meant to be. But again, it's funny how 63 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: we glom onto these kind of numbers. Yeah, exactly. 64 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: You know, some special numbers are again a matter of 65 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: personal preference. Others can be cultural events, you know, like 66 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: part of Asia's deep belief in the good vibes of 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: the number eight, and we see this similar pattern with 68 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: unlucky numbers. Assigning good or bad fortune to numbers. It's 69 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: a time honored human hobby and it can seem like 70 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: a relic of superstition from ages gone, but there's still 71 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: a lot of legacy to this. There's this quasi spiritual 72 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: belief that some numbers are better or worse than others. 73 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: For sure. 74 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I know we're going to get into a 75 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 4: lot of this, but I'm always reminded of the very 76 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 4: cool early Darren Aaronofski movie Pie that talks about this 77 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 4: kind of cabal of Hasidic Jewish mystics that practice the 78 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 4: numerology of Kabbala, where in certain numbers are assigned to 79 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 4: certain letters in the Hebrew alphabet used to kind of 80 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: uncover these hidden secrets and connections with the universe. And 81 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 4: in the film it takes a real dark turn, but 82 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 4: it's real cool. 83 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with the high dollar corporate interests that play 84 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: another antagonistic role in that amazing film. We are fun 85 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: at parties. Let's start exploring lucky and unlucky numbers by 86 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: doing what we'll call a hilariously brief history of numbers one, two, 87 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: three to the four? 88 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: How do we get there? How do we like? 89 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: How do we do numbers? 90 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 4: Well, they have to excuse me because Snoop Doggy Dog 91 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 4: and Doctor Dre are at the door. I'll be right back. No, 92 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 4: I'm just kidding. Yeah, I don't know, man, it's interesting. 93 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 4: I thought when you said you were going to do 94 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 4: a history of numbers, I thought you were just going 95 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 4: to name all the numbers and that would have made 96 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 4: for very interesting content. And I was here for it. 97 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 4: And thanks Ben for this excellent research brief. I know 98 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 4: this is a pet subject for you, and I think 99 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 4: all of the ridiculous historians out there are going to 100 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 4: enjoy it too. 101 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about numbers. 102 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 4: So, despite the fact that humans are pretty bad at 103 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 4: agreeing with one another on most things, most of modern 104 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 4: civilization has agreed on not only the concept of numbers, 105 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 4: but also a universal ish way of communicating them in 106 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 4: written form. Right. 107 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, wherever you go nowadays, with a few exceptions, 108 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: the people you run into, even if you don't speak 109 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: the same language, they are going to use the same 110 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: number system zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 111 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: zero again repeated to infinity. No, that's kind of a 112 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: success story, is it not. 113 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: I think it is. 114 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 4: I mean, we certainly can't agree on an alphabet, we 115 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: certainly can't agree on a language. And I've always wondered that, 116 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 4: you know, why is it the numbers are so universal? 117 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 4: I guess because there exist in the natural world observable, 118 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: kind of quantifiable things that these numbers represent. So it 119 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 4: sort of makes sense that, you know, we would need 120 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 4: to kind of have a standard for this, right, I mean, 121 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 4: have you ever maybe you could say it or how 122 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 4: you see it? Ben, What do you think that reason 123 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 4: is for the universality of a number system? 124 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: It's crazy, man. I think you're on I think you're 125 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: on the money with the idea of universal observance. Right, 126 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: people have different words for the concept of gravity, but 127 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: everyone acknowledges gravity exists. 128 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: There's no. 129 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: Uncontacted commune you could go to that doesn't understand things 130 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: fall down when you throw them into the sky. But 131 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: the weird thing is, back in the day, all these 132 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: disparate human communities, language groups like you described, empires, civilizations, 133 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: they had their own written version of numbers. What you're 134 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: using today folks is called the Arabic neural system, and 135 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: it's a misnomer because it's from an ancient Indian numerical 136 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: system and it spread via trade. It was the easiest 137 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: way to talk math, to talk finance, to talk money, 138 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: and then the Arabic Boffins adapted this and it propagated 139 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: throughout the Islamic world for sure. 140 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 4: And we can't not mention the Persian mathematician our Quared 141 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 4: Semi he is, to your point, Ben, one of the 142 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 4: aforementioned Boffin's slash nerds who helped popularize this number writing 143 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 4: system way back in the ninth century. So if we 144 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 4: fast forward in time one hundred years or so, we've 145 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 4: got Europeans encountering the Arabic numeral system, and because of 146 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 4: this trade that's around the tenth century. Up until that time, however, 147 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 4: they all been using really really bonkers inefficient, yet you know, 148 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 4: well intentioned system of Roman numerals, which as you know, Ben, 149 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 4: it still mystifies me to this day, and it is 150 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 4: you know, still used obviously in the naming of kings 151 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 4: and things like that. But also you'll see Roman numerals 152 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 4: as a tradition at the bottom of motion pictures the credits, 153 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 4: you'll see like a really long Roman numeral that represents 154 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 4: a year. And when you see that written now you 155 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 4: kind of understand why it's not the best system because 156 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 4: real hard to parse out what exactly it's saying. I 157 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 4: can't hardly do it with just like four characters own 158 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: like twenty yeah. 159 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 160 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: By the way, let's throw to Max real quick. Here, 161 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey Max, what super Bowl is it? 162 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: They go? Another one that uses the romans. Yeah, it 163 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: is a number between one and sixty. 164 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 4: Okay, great, How would you how would you, Parson? How 165 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 4: would you spell it out with Roman numerals? 166 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: It might be what's l L L was a couple 167 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 3: of years ago, which is fifty, So it's like. 168 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: L L l i X l i X super Bowl 169 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: licks sounds dirty? 170 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 4: No, sorry, yeah, yeah, February the most recent one, February 171 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 4: of twenty five was. 172 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: So we're going to be at l LX then next 173 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 3: because that's sixty then, right, LX is fifty nine oh 174 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 3: ten years away from having a really good super Bowl. 175 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: So Roman numerals, right, and thank you, that's a Max 176 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: with the facts. If we can add a null tag 177 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: on it, that. 178 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 5: Seek in the Fonda and he's fallen log it's just for. 179 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 2: You right now for sure. 180 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 4: But like, for example, if you, let's see, if you, 181 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 4: if you combine different Roman numerals with standard Roman numerals, 182 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 4: you can form these longer numbers, and like, here's an 183 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 4: example of an obnoxious one, like M D C C 184 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: C C l x x x x v iii, which 185 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 4: apparently means nine ninety nine thousand. 186 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: Now what if you could just write that an easier way. 187 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: Fast forward another several centuries. A guy named Fibdacci who 188 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: is low key famous for a couple other things, including 189 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: a few sequences uh one in particular, he publishes something 190 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: called liber Abakshi in the twelve hundreds, and, just like 191 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: al Karzimi before him, this popularizes the Arabic numeral system 192 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: in the niscent Western world. Fast forward one more time. 193 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: It's a modern day. It's the twenty first century. Everybody 194 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: except for the Super Bowl and studio moguls, are using 195 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: the Arabic numeral system. Linguistic systems languages across the world 196 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: are still as you said, Noel, quite divided one versus 197 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: um versus you know, a zhai eines, you know, et cetera. 198 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 1: They all will generally and consistently use this single brilliant 199 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: system of numeric notation to agree on basic math. 200 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: For sure. 201 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 4: And that's not even to mention like the idea of 202 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 4: binary code and the ones and zeros that make up 203 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 4: digital you know, delivery of information. That's a whole other concepts, 204 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: and I'd love to get more into that. I think 205 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 4: we've done some stuff around. We definitely did one about 206 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 4: like the turning you know, code breaking machines and all 207 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 4: of that. But it would be fun to talk a 208 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 4: little bit about the history of coding, because it is becoming, gosh, 209 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 4: the thing that they've told you to go to school 210 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 4: for and that is now seemingly being made part of 211 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 4: history being replaced by AI. Not to put too fine 212 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 4: a point on it, but I think that's maybe worth 213 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 4: an episode. So math alone can't define, however, that human experience. 214 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 4: To our previous point, though these observable phenomena that can 215 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 4: ultimately be drilled down into mathematically, even math cannot fully 216 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 4: explain everything, right, So as a result, depending on where 217 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 4: you go and how you experience the world, some numbers 218 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 4: are defined in terms beyond their actual facts. To quote 219 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 4: Lauren quantitative value. So some numbers good, other numbers bad. 220 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: And that's why today, fellow ridiculous historians, we want to 221 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: explore some of those numbers called unlucky. We're gonna take 222 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: two examples, just to be clear, your mileage may vary. 223 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna learn some origin stories, some fun superstitions, and 224 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: legacy of culture, and then we're also going to go 225 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: into some downright ridiculous examples of real life dangerous consequences 226 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: based on those beliefs. For now, we're not gonna focus 227 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: on thirteen examples. We'll focus on two examples, but we 228 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: will start with the number thirteen, because come on, folks, 229 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: we're a US based Western podcast, and the most unpopular 230 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: number in all of Western discourse is the number thirteen. 231 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, it always reminds me of the excellent Pixies song 232 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 4: number thirteen. Baby, let's see standing in her chinos, sure 233 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 4: pulled off clean, got a tattooed breast, say number thirteen. 234 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: He doesn't use that word, he uses a different word. 235 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 4: But it is a song about I don't know who 236 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 4: knows what the Pixies songs are about, but it definitely 237 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 4: has a certain doom saying quality to it, which is 238 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 4: where we're going with this, The number thirteen does not 239 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 4: bode well when it pops up Theoretically. Earlier research indicse 240 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 4: that up to teen percent of the US has a 241 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 4: fear of that very number, even in the modern day, 242 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 4: and that cultural fear is so deeply built into society. 243 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 4: There's even a specific word for this phobia. Ben you 244 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 4: found this one. I'm having a hard time even wrapping 245 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 4: my eyeballs around it. Can you give us a reading phobia? 246 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: Trisca de caaphobia? Wow, fear of the number thirteen? 247 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 4: Wait a minute, wasn't there a movie with Jim Carrey 248 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 4: about the number thirteen? 249 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: Or was it Jim Carrey Hotel One? 250 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 4: No, it's Jim Carrey Scary number movie, Number movie. 251 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: It is called the number twenty three, not the number. 252 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: They did a little spin on it. Interesting. 253 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 4: Apparently he sees it everywhere and it causes him to 254 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 4: have some psychological break and there's apparently a twist ending. 255 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 4: And it is based on something called the twenty three enigma, 256 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 4: which is a real world concept where people perceive connections 257 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 4: to the number twenty three in real life. 258 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: But that also happens pretty often to individual humans. The 259 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: idea of seeing connections no question. 260 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: We're connection making machines. 261 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: We like to see it better, and don't we Max, 262 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: you wanted to jump in here? You got a thirteen thing? 263 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 3: No, I just want to piggyback on something Noel said 264 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: about the Pixies recently. When I was coming back from Portland, 265 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 3: I was on vacation out there, some Pixies came on. 266 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: I was listening to it, and you know, it's good 267 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 3: when I hear the Pixies. But I'm like, I was like, 268 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: man when I started listening to Pixies in high school. 269 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 3: I'm being like, man, I can't wait tell them an adult. 270 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: And I understand what these lyrics mean, mean nothing, they 271 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: made nothing, nobody. 272 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 4: It's a vibe based lyric, Yeah, Frank, vibe based lyric. 273 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: Credible lime logic of the Stone Temple pilots for sure, 274 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: or even like Radiohead. 275 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 4: And that's one thing I really dig about, certain lyrics 276 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 4: that are less to be interpreted or have an exact 277 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 4: outright meaning. But it's more what you bring to it, 278 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 4: which is exactly what we do as patterns seeking humans 279 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 4: with them. 280 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: Humans are the first thing to look at the heavens 281 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: and the mechanisms of reality and say how does this 282 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: apply to me? How could I make this about? 283 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 4: When you put it like that, we kind of sound 284 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: like a holes. But I guess you know, fairpoint, fairpoint. 285 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, accurate too, no kidding, friends and neighbors. People now 286 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five in the Western world will genuinely 287 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: avoid occasions of auspice. We could call them avoiding marriages, reunions, 288 00:17:55,040 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: significant business handshakes, travel on days this, I'll say it. 289 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: Beat me, Max bullshit calendar calls the thirteenth, especially Friday 290 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: the thirteenth. 291 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: Buddy, I'm such a dang dong. 292 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 4: I did not even think about Friday the thirteenth in 293 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 4: this very clear discussion of unlucky numbers and the number thirteenth. 294 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 4: Of course, it's not like it's the halloweenius non Halloween, 295 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 4: you know, day of the year. 296 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: You're okay, careu. It happens all the time. There's even 297 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: a whole horror movie franchise literally called Friday the thirteenth. 298 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's certainly the most popular pop cultural use 299 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 4: of that. And I don't know, if I don't know, 300 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 4: do you know people that freak out about Friday the 301 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 4: thirteenth or talk about it in hushed tones? 302 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: Not a series of films, but the day. I know 303 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: a few, I know a few. 304 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Most people I know talk about the franchise talk about 305 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: it in a very excited way because they're horror film 306 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: fanatics and they love. 307 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: Pace of warhies, Chasing's great. Yeah, don't what the camper? Yeah, 308 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: they love it. 309 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 4: When my favorite Jason kill in an early movie, it 310 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 4: might be the first one, is when he just takes 311 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 4: a camper who's in a sleeping bag and like cinches 312 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 4: it up at the top and just slams them into 313 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 4: a tree repeatedly. I thought that was very clever. But 314 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken, Friday the thirteenth maybe correct us 315 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 4: out there, horror bofens. But does it actually is? Is 316 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 4: that a meaningful event in the film or is it 317 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 4: just kind of referring to just the concept of unluckiness 318 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 4: and a bad day? 319 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: I can't recall. I actually can't recall. 320 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: I think regardless of how the franchise begins, they lose 321 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: touch over the course of the franchise. With Friday the Thirteenth. 322 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 4: It says here on the Internet that the date does 323 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 4: not consistently to your point bend feature in the series. 324 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 4: The first film and only a few subsequent films actually 325 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 4: take place on that specific date, so the movie series 326 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 4: has a confusing timeline and doesn't always adhere to the 327 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 4: date mentioned in the title. 328 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: Fair enough, speaking of confusing, shout out to Crystal Lake. 329 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: While all the hubbub bubbs over Friday the thirteenth, or 330 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: thirteen in general, let's travel all the way back to 331 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: the first pitch of why this number became bad. It 332 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: goes to the Code of Hamaabi, and the idea is 333 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: and the speculation goes that Hama Rabbi's Code the first 334 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: written or the first documented measure of law that humans know. 335 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: Now. 336 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: It has a list of things right that are going 337 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: to be crimes and legally punishable, and it purposely omits 338 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: a thirteenth law from its legal rules. So this might 339 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: sound like some ancient precedent and super easy to walk 340 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: around and say, oh, these folks of old were also 341 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: really scared of the number thirteen, But it turns out 342 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: the reality of this is kind of ridiculous and classic 343 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: human It was probably a typo based on the earliest translations. 344 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: They accidentally skipped a line of text. 345 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: I love like when doomsday prophecies are based on like 346 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 4: typos or just that that historical game of telephone that 347 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 4: we always talk about. 348 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: It just it brightens my day. 349 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 4: Shout out to twenty twelve. Yeah, one hundred percent. And 350 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 4: I'm certain that that that this is something that you 351 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 4: found as well. But I'd love to explore it more. 352 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 4: The idea of I don't see this always. Do you 353 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 4: see buildings not having a thirteenth floor all the time anymore? 354 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: Ooh, I'm excited that we're going to get to that. Yes, yeah, yeah, 355 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: because it still continues. The thing about the surviving Code 356 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: of Hamarabi, to make it even more ridiculous, is that 357 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: that translation is not numbered. There's a list of crimes 358 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: and you know, legal rulings, but they are they're like 359 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: the things in an email with a dot instead of 360 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: a one and a two, so there's no number thirteen 361 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: to miss. It means that none of these folks were 362 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: frightened by some mystical mathematical power. Instead, they were in 363 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: a hurry. Stuff fell through the cracks. And maybe another 364 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: theory is that because of the base ten Arabic numeral system. 365 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: Maybe it's because of that early Mesopotamian societies were super 366 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: dupes into what we would call base twelve math. That's 367 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: part of why we measure days in twenty four hour cycles, right, 368 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: twelve times two, or why the modern international calendar, which 369 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: is again malarkey, has twelve months. The idea there is. 370 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: That thirteen is just too spoopy. 371 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: It's omination, it's unnatural. 372 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 4: Now that, if I'm not mistaken, when we did calendar stuff, 373 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 4: it was definitely not for that reason, right, It was 374 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 4: more of like it. They needed the math to add up, 375 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 4: so twelve made the most sense. You're right, and I've 376 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 4: never claimed to fully wrap my head around any of that. 377 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: Either. I am not good at math. That's a weed. 378 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: Mutually, are both buffoonishly confused when Thanksgiving or Easter occur 379 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: in the West. I think both of us just assume 380 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: someone will tell us these rotating holidays, and that is 381 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately true ridiculous historians. Then we have the other stories 382 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: about thirteen. They're very spiritually based. Judas is Carriaut famous 383 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: in certain religious circles. He's the thirteenth guest at the 384 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: Last Supper. He betrayed the guy who repeatedly helped him 385 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: out and saved his life, Jesus Christ, Jesus H. 386 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: Christ. If you like, and there's no age, And Harold, 387 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 2: where does that even come from? 388 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 4: He was sorry, really no think anyway, maybe that's something 389 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 4: worth exploring to absurdly Hank then with the dubious facts. 390 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: And there's an earlier example of this, Loki from Nordic lore, 391 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: who was again the thirteenth guide and important party and 392 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: kind of a pill in those stories. This carries on 393 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: in multiple forms today. Uh, this is where we're getting 394 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: to what you alluded to so beautifully earlier, Noel. It 395 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: is even now in twenty twenty five not uncommon to 396 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: find an elevator with no thirteen floor button on it, 397 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: especially in airports, hospitals, institutions of higher learning, which is 398 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: funny to me. It just skips straight from twelve to fourteen. 399 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: Have you run into any of this, you guys. 400 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 4: I do always try to look for it, and what 401 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 4: I was mentioning earlier, the reason. 402 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 2: I brought it up, I feel like I don't see it. 403 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 4: As much anymore in terms of there not being a thirteen, 404 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 4: But I don't know. 405 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 2: I can't really say for certain. 406 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 4: I definitely have witnessed such things, but in my mind 407 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 4: I always seem to try to look for it, and 408 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 4: be like, we wait, no, there's a thirteen. 409 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: Why is there a thirteen? 410 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, I put you off, like, are you going 411 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: to stay on that floor the hotel? 412 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 2: Da da da da? Duh? It's so weird, exactly. 413 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: It's so weird, right because even if, like most people 414 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: in a secular world, even if you don't actively practice superstition, 415 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: we all have a thing where we kind of err 416 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: on the side of caution. Right, if it is convenient 417 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: for me to not put myself in a situation that 418 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: superstition tells me is disadvantageous, then I'll avoid that situation. 419 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: I will stay on floor fifteen just to be safe. 420 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: This is the wildest part of the unlucky number. Reckoning 421 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: thirteen as a bad number is primarily overwhelmingly a Western phobia. 422 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: If you went back to ancient Egypt, certain dynasties saw 423 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: the number thirteen as kind of lucky. So the fear 424 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: of this number is not a cross cultural phenomenon. It 425 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: is culturally dependent. No one is absolutely sure how it 426 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: came about, but everybody heard it to your point about 427 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: the game of telephone and repeated it to each other. 428 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: So if you are not from Western in society and 429 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: you're looking in on the benighted Europeans, Americans, Canadians, a 430 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: little bit of Mexico as well, then you will probably 431 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: think it somewhere between cute and weird that people care 432 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: so much about what floor of the hotel they're sleeping on. 433 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, and if we're doing another musical ref if you 434 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 4: don't mind, there is a really cool, influential psych rock 435 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 4: band from Austin, Texas called The Thirteenth Floor Elevators with 436 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 4: Rocky Erickson, a famous oddball front person who I believe 437 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 4: passed away and he had some mental health issues, but 438 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 4: a very very talented dude. 439 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 2: I highly recommend checking out their work. But it's not 440 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: a clever name. 441 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 4: It's this the thirteenth Floor Elevators, the elevators that only 442 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 4: go to the scary floor. 443 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: Love it, Love it. And that's an excellent example. We 444 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: can also say, for example, thirteen is kind of a larchy, 445 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: as in, there is no real world consequence for ending 446 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: up with thirteen on your license plate or thirteen guests 447 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: at your dinner party. But speaking of for example, let's 448 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: get to one of the most infamous unlucky numbers. Half 449 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: a world away. Way more people are frightened of the 450 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: number four. 451 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, I had no idea about this one, Ben, This 452 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 4: is fascinating. It is considered super unlucky throughout large parts 453 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 4: of Asia, very similar if not more so in terms 454 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 4: of the paranoia surrounding it to the way the West 455 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 4: looks at number thirteen. So even today you will find 456 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 4: elevators that won't list the fourth floor going from three 457 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 4: directly to five, or having like a subheading on three, 458 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 4: so like the floor between three and would be three. 459 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 4: A I can't wait three and a half reminds me 460 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: of the tiny floor from being John Malcolmvich. 461 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: Oh, perfect reference. Yeah, I can't wait till we make 462 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: it over to that part of the world together for 463 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History Live. You're absolutely correct. No, throughout China to one, 464 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: the Korean Peninsula and Japan, the number four is treated 465 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: with even more suspicion than we in the West treat 466 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: the number thirteen. Again, it's so common that there is 467 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: an entire word for the fear of the number four 468 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: in English. It's pretty predictable. It's tetraphobia, and that is 469 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: unfortunately not related to tetris phobia, which would have big fun. 470 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 4: So cool that these very niche. Yeah, maybe it's not 471 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 4: niche if enough people believe it. Fears have their own phobias, 472 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 4: just like in the West, elevators and hospitals and airports 473 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 4: and apartment buildings, office buildings are going to skip the 474 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 4: fourth floor in Beijing, for example, license plates avoid using 475 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 4: that number. Though I do wonder, like, how is this 476 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,239 Speaker 4: implemented systematically? Like a lot of those numbers are sort 477 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 4: of randomly generated, or they're generated based on pre existing sequences, 478 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 4: like what if your number comes up as they say, 479 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 4: you know, is someone gonna like complain? Are they gonna say, uh, 480 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 4: I don't want that one? 481 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? What are you doing? 482 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: License plate issuing authority? Are you telling me to die? 483 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: Are you final destinationing me? I'm gonna make it a 484 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: verb anyway over over in Singapore, dude, the legendary Alpha 485 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 1: Romeo had the Model one four and they had to 486 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: change the name to sell it to these high rolling, 487 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: very fancy tycoons. 488 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: It's very interesting. 489 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 4: It reminds me of the way American movies often have 490 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 4: to be re edited for Asian markets to remove mentions 491 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 4: of overtly supernatural stuff. And I mean, maybe I'm overstate 492 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 4: over simplifying that, but I do recall that a Ghostbusters 493 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 4: movie was very very heavily edited, and that mentions of 494 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 4: ghosts in general, and you know, spiritual entities are kind 495 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 4: of frowned upon over there because of very similar cultural sensitivities. 496 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: M one hundred percent. Yeah, And do check out our 497 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 1: earlier gosh, what was it stuff they don't want you 498 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: to know episodes about American studios sort of tailoring their 499 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: products to Chinese markets, who are, by the way, folks, 500 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: the biggest theatrical market out there. 501 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 502 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 4: Oftentimes movies will make their budget or become profitable even 503 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 4: if they're a flop here at home, because they do 504 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 4: well abroad. 505 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: Shout out to specific specific grim. I think it's a 506 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 2: great movie. 507 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,719 Speaker 4: I didn't see any of the sequels, and I did 508 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 4: also want to point out a recent ish episode we 509 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 4: did on Ridiculous History about some international, uh let's say, 510 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 4: events negative that were caused by miss prints, you know, 511 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 4: in products and various American kind of things that you know, 512 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 4: created quite a kerfuffle abroad because of you know, mistranslations. 513 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 4: It's not exactly the same, but I think it's a 514 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 4: good spiritual kind of partner to this episode. 515 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: Right on you know, it may astound a lot of 516 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: us listening to realize that multiple international brands will purposefully 517 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: and preemptively retouch their products entirely to avoid using the 518 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: number four in Asian markets. So we have to ask, 519 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: why is this tetraphobia so much stronger than triskdea of 520 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: phobia which I am stumbling through the fear of the 521 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: number thirteen. The true answer here, folks, which we can 522 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: give you the straight poop, is this The number four 523 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: as a fearful number is rooted in language. It goes 524 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: way way back. It's often misreport like. Think about it 525 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: this way. The number thirteen in English is a relatively 526 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: singular word. You can slant rhyme it with phrases like 527 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: the third teen or thirstteen, but the actual word thirteen 528 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: is just what it means. It means three more units 529 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: past ten. That's not the case here. In multiple languages 530 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: across East Asia, the word for four sounds distressingly similar 531 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: to the word for death. Thank you for the sound You're. 532 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 4: There next, Oh yes, oh no, death, Sweet embrace. 533 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: Picture being a. 534 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: Kid over in the mainland Middle Kingdom and you're learning 535 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: to count you got eh song. 536 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 4: Death, Oh no, it's so metal, it's sure uh so, 537 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 4: well that doesn't sound quite a scary but. 538 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: Well, without going into the weeds, Chinese, as we know, 539 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: is a tone language, or it's a collection of tonal languages. 540 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: Mandarin has four tones, Cantonese has too many for us 541 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: to learn. And it means that the pronounced tone of 542 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: a vocalization indicates the concept the content you are communicating. 543 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: If if we could, this might just be fun for us. 544 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: Can we play a weird poem that shows us how 545 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: bizarre this total language can become? 546 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 2: Only if we can all listen to it together. Ben, 547 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: that sounds lovely so. 548 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: In English, this is the lion eating poet in the 549 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: Stone Den, or you could say the story of mister 550 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: she eating lions. Every word in here is a different 551 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: total pronunciation of shit. 552 00:34:50,320 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 5: The title sessh ish, the contentesh suh. 553 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 4: You see what I'm saying makes your head spin in 554 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 4: the best way I hear it. But boy, oh boy, 555 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 4: it's about the inflection, right, It's about the tonality of 556 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 4: the upward or downward, and then sometimes the length of 557 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 4: the sound. It seems like some are shorter, some are 558 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 4: a little longer, some have it's interesting tones yeah, yeah. 559 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love it. It's really cool. Ben. 560 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: Well, we're not the ones who came up with it, Noel, 561 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: but it gives us a sense as non native speakers 562 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: about the concept. And then we say, what about the 563 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 1: languages in nearby regions that do not rely on tones? 564 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: In Japan and. 565 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: Korea, the words for for and for death are likewise similar. 566 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 4: Correct In Japanese, for or she and death she share 567 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 4: the same pronunciation, okay, that makes sense. In Korean, however, 568 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 4: both are pronounced saw. So people in Japan particularly do 569 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 4: not like the number forty nine double whammy, as it 570 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 4: sounds sort of like saying pain until death. 571 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 2: Happy birthday, everybody, exactly. Not cool, man. 572 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 4: The kids are really into some numerology stuff these days. 573 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 4: There's a new brain rot kind of term that's like 574 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 4: sixty seven. 575 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: I want to say six seven seven. Hold on, let's 576 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 2: see slang. 577 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 4: Sixty seven means to abruptly, reject, dismiss, or leave someone 578 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 4: or something, often used to tell somebody to go away. 579 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 4: So it seems like it's part of a meme and 580 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 4: kids are saying that now. But then I remember eighty six, 581 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 4: which meant in restaurant parlance that something was out that 582 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 4: you were out of something. 583 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 2: So I don't know. 584 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 4: I'm very curious about where some of these numbers come from. 585 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 4: Maybe it's like from like walkie talkie or something like that. 586 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 2: But I digress. 587 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: Now, who are we to eighty six superstition? It does 588 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: make me wonder about the old stories of unfortunately named 589 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: automobiles in different linguistic markets. It also makes me wonder 590 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: about how films like The Fantastic Four are going to 591 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: play in Asia, again, with China being the largest theatrical market. 592 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 4: Well oftentimes, though, like those types of movies, numbers aside 593 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 4: get a much more culturally under recognizable name. It'll be 594 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 4: like the Magic Family, the Magic Family, Yes, thank you, Ben, 595 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 4: thank you one hundred percent, the Stretchy Boy and the 596 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,879 Speaker 4: Fireman you know. 597 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, perfect, I mean and joking aside, there's a 598 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: great deal of xenophobia on either shore the proverbial pond here, 599 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: so we have to keep in mind that the vast 600 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: majority of modern humans are not actively terrify of numbers 601 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: that just exist without opinions or powers of their own. 602 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: A ton of Eastern and Western literature over the centuries 603 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: has practiced othering, and it's portraying people that the authors 604 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: have never met as slaves to some sort of superstition. 605 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: But look, also, if all things equal, right, if you 606 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: are in the West and you have the opportunity to 607 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: choose between floor twelve and floor fifteen, you might not 608 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: go for thirteen if you don't have to try extra 609 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: you know. 610 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Then maybe maybe well maybe you get 611 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: a deal on thirteen. 612 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: Maybe you get a deal on thirteen. We're revealing a 613 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: lot about ourselves. 614 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 2: In that case. 615 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, we are down to sleep on floor thirteen as 616 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: well as floor four. Maybe we do an episode on 617 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: lucky numbers in the future. What do you think, what. 618 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 2: A great idea. Yeah, the Yen and the Young. Yeah, 619 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: what I know, eight. 620 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: Is seen as a fortuitous number in some parts of 621 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: the world. 622 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 2: I mean the obvious one is lucky number seven, I think, yeah, yeah, 623 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. Let's see three Trinity three, Yeah, the 624 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 2: Holy Trinity wouilch. 625 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 4: I probably would would be a reasoning behind that being 626 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 4: a lucky number. But I am also fascinated about we 627 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 4: briefly mentioned it up top, but like, what makes numbers 628 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 4: have power? 629 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 2: In that Kabbala tradition of Jewish mysticism. I need to 630 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 2: read that. 631 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 4: I need Yeah, I need to revisit PI to maybe 632 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 4: answer some of those questions or just do a little digging. 633 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 4: But man, Ben, what a great research doc you put 634 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 4: together on this one. It's such a cool topic and 635 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 4: I had a lot of fun talking about. 636 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 2: It with you. 637 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to spin this out so we don't 638 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: end on forty four. Big big thanks to our super producer, 639 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. Big thanks to our Brotherred Arms Alex Williams, 640 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: who composed this slap and bop. Have you checked in 641 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: with them? Miss him a little? 642 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 2: I miss him quite a lot. I haven't talked to 643 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 2: him in a. 644 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 4: Hot minute, but I do owe him a poke to 645 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 4: use the antiquated Facebook parlance. 646 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, and huge thanks to Rachel Big Spinach Lance will. 647 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 4: Be joining us soon if if she has anything to 648 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 4: do with it, because we're really bad at email, but 649 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 4: we really are excited to have her talk about some 650 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 4: underwater explosiony type stuff. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the 651 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 4: Quiztor a j Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler. 652 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: Medium thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quiztor. Big thanks 653 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: to Eve's Jeffcoat Christopher hasiotis here in spirit, The Rude Dudes, 654 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: that Ridiculous Crime Big thanks to Doctor Venkman, Apollo and 655 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: the Cat with a Thousand Names. Also, don't think I 656 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: forgot Max Big thanks to Sylvia mm hmm. 657 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 2: See you next time, folks. 658 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 659 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.