WEBVTT - Ep. 23: Public Lands Roundtable 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:06.279 Hey, everybody, Welcome to Episode number twenty three. I'm Ben O'Brien, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:12.200 and I'm excited about this podcast. Um. I'm excited about 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.880 it for a bunch of reasons. Excited about it because 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:16.920 of the group of people I was with when we 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.720 recorded this podcast. I'm excited about it because of the topic, um, 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:22.680 and I'm just excited about it to be a part 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.880 of a community of people that I believe cares about 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:32.440 the right stuff. And part of why this podcast is 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.120 what I've wanted to do and what I've enjoyed doing, 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:39.200 is because of that exact thing. Is a group of 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.400 people that are passionate about something that I've shared ideas 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.520 and that are looking to expand their knowledge, are looking 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.440 to share their stories. And so Episode number twenty three 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.440 is about those things, but it's also about public lands. 0:00:53.479 --> 0:01:00.000 It's also about five people coming together to express themselves, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:06.080 else to share ideas, and to talk about the threats 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.319 to our public land. Now, these five people, myself included, 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.440 are not experts, were not uh legislators, We are not 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.720 policy makers, We are not part of of leadership in 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.920 any conservation groups. But what we are is five people 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.479 that really care about public lands and and when something 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.399 comes up to threaten those lands, I think we all 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.520 felt um that would be productive to sit down and 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.039 address those so we did that. We did that on 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.200 Sam Sohol's public land bus in the middle of the night, 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.440 Big Sky Montana. And the folks that join me you'll 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.600 hear him pretty soon are the guys from Hushing, Brian 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:55.360 mcelray and Casey Butler, Ben Dead Demante, Old Shed Crazy, 0:01:55.640 --> 0:02:01.720 Sam sohold himself and end me open over and so 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.920 I hopefully you can understand where we were going with this. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.400 You can understand that we're just five guys that love hunting, love, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.560 efficient love, public lands, are passionate about learning, and take 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.640 exactly that from this, and hopefully you have conversations like 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.240 this with your group of friends and the circles that 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.360 you travel, and then you can inspire each other to 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:48.200 learn more. So, without further ado, please enjoy episode others 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.800 clips on Hey, we're live with everybody. We're on a bus. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.280 We're not on public land, are we We're not. We 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.600 are on very private land, very private land. Very private land. 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.800 Probably could be public land. It could be if people 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.920 didn't like to pay high dollar for skiing. Yeah, but 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.480 people do. They do people really like that bus? Here 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:14.000 we are, but hey, celebrate I say, celebrate private landowners 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.000 as well. Let's do it. Yes, think everybody think that. Yeah, 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.359 I'm proud of the half acre. I own me too. 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.840 I'm point four three no way here in this beautiful 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:29.120 state of Montana. Yeah, yeah, shoot on you man. Um, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.880 let's go around and say who we are. Sam, please 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.600 begin Sam's holt. I am a professional photographer in the 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.360 hunting industry, owner of the public land bus, and we 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:43.360 are currently sitting here in my bus were the bus. Yeah, 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.680 my name is Ben Detta Monty. Um, I'm currently sitting 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.360 in the bus of Sam's hold as well. And uh 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:55.600 I do Instagram, YouTube and whatever I want. Wow, my 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.120 name's Casey Butler. I am sitting on the bus as well. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.200 Actually seeing on Ben's lap on the bus that's sitting 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.960 on public private land. That's Betel Brian Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.720 I've been on this podcast once before. Thanks for having 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:14.320 me back. I'm from I'm one third of Hush You Are. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:20.760 I'm Brian Mackray, two thirds of Hush yea and the 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:28.279 second third or the actually that's not far off on 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.640 the back end of things. What do you didn't even 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:32.440 hear it. Would you rather he's saying he's doing two thirds? 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.920 Would you rather be the second third or the third third? 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.960 I'm the third third? Yeah, no doubt really tying it down. 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.320 I am You're the glue. The yeah, I'm I'm hurting 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:47.200 the hotelis hush, Yes, you're the Jannest Patlis the perfect analogy. 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.120 The last podcast we called Yanni the glue, the glue. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.440 You're the glue as well. I would definitely say he's 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.440 the glue. The glue stick can have a responsible Jannest 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.719 has a much cooler nickname than I do, though, what's 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.359 your nickname? A lot of them didn't just does. He 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.240 has a cooler real name and nickname than you, with 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.440 the last name of battle Ray, which is unpronounceable when 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.000 you see it on paper by most people. You get 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.080 a lot of nicknames growing up as a kid. Yeah, 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:18.120 all shortened down like anything Mac, mac and cheese everything, Ben, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.919 give me give me a mac McGregor's the only thing 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.680 I can think of right now, Big Mack. It's kind 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:31.160 of ironic. I went to food. I was with you 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.480 immediately to food. B max sins were Since you are 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.719 the glue, tell us, what what brought us onto the 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.520 bus today, why we came here to be together. We're 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.479 gonna talk a little bit about some of the recent 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.640 comments from a Senator Mike leout of beautiful state of 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.560 Utah where I actually reside. Who else he resides in Utah? 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.000 I do, Ben does. Yeah, I live in the south 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.880 end of the state, and then Casey here and Ida. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.480 But you're basically you might as well be in Utah. No, no, 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.039 you don't know. No, you don't claim it. I lived, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.720 loved I lived in Utah for ten years and uh, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:11.279 and then we moved back. We moved to l A 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.000 and then moved uh to Idaho, where I was raised. 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.200 And my wife was trying to convince me to move 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.120 back to Utah. I said, no, no, I won't do 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.920 it because of mike Le. Mike Lee, that's the one reason. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.480 You were like, listen, honey, you know who must lives there. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.359 My my reasons were very selfish. It wasn't because of 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.080 Mike Lee. But I was like, Babe, the honey, opportunities 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:34.760 here in Idaho are just that much better. And she's like, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:36.760 you're really gonna base where we live and where we 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.560 raise our family off funding. I said yes, And now 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.080 we're in Idho still Yeah, I won. Was that prior 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.800 to hush or during last year? Yeah, you're like, we 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.920 have a hunting YouTube channel. Yeah, She's like, you can 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:55.799 do that anywhere. Kind of deep. Yeah, well I like Idaho. Well, Um, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.919 to the point of public lands, I think what we 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:03.200 all should acknowledge before we begin this discussion is that 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.520 Mike Lee, Senator Mike Lee, a Great State of Utah, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.600 is one of many villains in a long storyline that 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.480 is public lands going back to when they began, when 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.960 there was railroad tycoons and Robert Barons and people that 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:23.520 wanted to push our expansion westward, manifest destiny whatnot. And 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:28.040 they were pushing against you know, um pinch Ow and 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:33.440 Roosevelt and pushing back on the idea of preserving and 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:38.040 uh lands for everyone because those lands can be profitable. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.040 So Mike Lee is just the most recent villain in 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:48.480 the story many many of which reside in Utah. In Utah, yeah, 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.280 but the most recent. Uh. It's kind of like the 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:57.560 vestige of transfer proxy. Really yeah, good that you know 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.040 a lot of us, a lot of folks that and 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.360 this will know about Jason Schaffitz, But um Jason Schaffitz 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:09.760 was the most recent. Was he a senator, congressman, congressman, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.360 congressman out of Utah to stand up and say we 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:19.280 should transfer a federal ownership of lands to the states. Uh, 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:23.600 the states can better manage those resources. But more over, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:29.800 Mike Lee gave a speech recently where he said a wilderness. Specifically, 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:36.320 he traced wilderness to the European aristocracy prior to the 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.600 colonization of this land that we sit on. I believe 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.760 it's hashtag royal force. Hashtag royal force. So he somehow 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.760 drew a line from uh, a place that is owned 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:55.280 by the public. Two European aristocracy in the sevred somehow 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.080 made that the draw and his his thing was, wilderness 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:03.079 is for the few. Not everybody can go to wilderness, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.200 So wilderness is for the few. And he made hard 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.160 left at common sense and practicality, and then went right 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.760 towards aristocracy. The aristocracy wanted hunting to be for the few, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:17.480 be for the ridge to be for the well off. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:25.000 Wilderness somehow is the same thing. Anybody want to take 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.760 that up, try to help us with that. I had 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.120 a hard time understanding that analogy because to me, it 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.760 was even beyond wilderness. It really like was just any 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.680 public lands was very elitist. And the example he gave 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.360 was people from Aspen flying in on their private jets, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.480 sipping on their coffee and micro brewis you know, to 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.880 go to the Archers National Park and then they fly out, 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.720 and how that is negatively impacting the local economy. And 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.760 it just is a very interesting analogy that didn't resonate 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.760 with me because I think, like most of us, pretty 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:07.760 average guys grew up recreating on public LANs all of 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.120 our lives, and so it almost seemed as if it 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.320 was the opposite of the parallel he was drawing to 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.800 what reality is for anybody that I know which is 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:19.880 not elitist whatsoever. I mean the people that we run 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:24.080 into on public plans or about his blue collar average 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.320 folks as you can get just like how we were 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.000 all raised. And so yeah, that was an interesting way 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:35.680 too phrase his part of the speech. Yeah, And I mean, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.600 I don't know what I know Orange Hatch, and I 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.320 know the legislatre, state legislature in Utah is full of 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.400 folks that are Rob Bishop. Yeah, Rob Bishop is a 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.240 big one. Yeah, they're full of folks that are are 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.080 can spin that yarn. Rob Bishop is on that yarn 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.400 on many times, many times on the media podcast himself. 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.240 Um to hear them say it, it's it's a out 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.040 returning these lands to the people and allowing the people 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.200 of the state to profit off these lands once more, 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.160 which it can be a compelling argument to listen and 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.440 listen to. When it's veiling that way, listen to that, 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:17.240 you're like, oh, that's playing am I much like uh 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.120 During the National Monuments crisis, I will call it a 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.280 crisis of conscience or whatever we'll call that, people were saying. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.040 One side was like, well, Trump's given the land back 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.319 to the people, and the other side was like, Trump's 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.080 taking the land away from the people. Holy sh it. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.560 Somewhere is the right answer, And it's neither one of 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.600 those somebody's lying or both of them are lying. Just 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.000 a small disconnect between the two ends on that one. 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.880 Wait a minute, I think that's what's so interesting about 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.200 this whole topic is so the bears here was going 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.959 to go in a couple of years ago, and I 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.240 don't know that Eric has some friends lived down there, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.840 and that's the last thing they wanted was that monument, 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.320 And well, now and there are people just like us. 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.440 They hunt fish, enjoy public lands, and uh where they 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.000 they didn't want the monument, right. I don't know the 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.880 details of that one anyway, But it's like this, we 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.839 draw a sand, like a line in the sand, and 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.400 it's it's because of these politicians are just giving out 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.800 such wrong information and leading people to believe what it 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.800 is better that the federal that we own our public 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.440 or that the state's control of public LANs. But what 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.720 we've learned from history is a lot of times the 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.560 states will sell those public LANs off to pay for 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.760 whatever school districts or or something like that. But I 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.840 always say, it's just a communication breakdown. Like it seems 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:34.959 like that's why you task such a big problem. It's 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.400 like the Republicans have continuously done this in the past. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.480 And it's like that famous speech when tex Triers came 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.520 to Ido trying to convince the IDO people that it's 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.360 the right thing to do, and he's like, you look 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.280 at the state that I come from, only two of 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.400 our lands are ran by the federal government. And it's like, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.199 because that's all the public lands you guys have remaining. Yeah, well, 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.120 I mean, you gotta be in this case, you have 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.600 to be pro nuance and anti bullshit. The National Monument 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.920 things specifically was full of nuance. There's a lot of 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:08.600 things that you know, grand staircase escalante is that bears 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.520 ears is not. There's a lot of issues and micro 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.640 macro terms for both those places that need to be 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.000 set aside and dealt with on their on their own 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.600 but in but in the same way, when you look 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.240 at the history of of all this, you have to 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:27.760 understand that, you know, public lands are good for this country, 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.680 but there's a whole lot of micro issues on the 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.600 regional level that make them complicated. And so what we 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.280 I think as a group who care about these things 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.200 need to do, in my opinion is, um, now, let's 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:43.959 not get into the n R a bullshit where the 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.600 sky is always falling, everything's always going away. We're unwilling 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.200 to have a, you know, a serious dialogue about when 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.880 is federal ownership of lands not the best thing for 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:59.360 that land? Um And you can't always be preaching from 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.360 the same pulp, because then you become fearmongers. Then you 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.000 become because that's what this like that Mike Lee comes 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:06.280 out and then it's like the next thing to get 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.880 excited about. Well, it's the same conversation. It's the exact 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.280 same conversation. Both sides have been saying the same thing 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.520 for many decades. I think the difference though, is that, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.600 you know, the chiefest thing kind of erupted, and then 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.120 through social influence, largely a lot of people, created a 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.840 big stir and he ultimately killed that bill that he 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:29.120 introduced because of the backlash, and then that died down 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.960 for almost a good year, and then Mike Lee is 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.240 the next guy to kind of surface back up with 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.760 some pretty bold statements. The way he finished off his 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:41.800 speech was very definitively and he had three initiatives that 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.640 he plans on moving forward with which, then, to your point, 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.280 is the next major thing to talk about It particularly 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.120 for folks in the industry or any public land users 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.000 or owners that are kind of passionately hanging onto this, 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.440 it's just relevant because it's back again. It's it's like 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.680 it's like a virus that just to bring it up 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:07.520 and beat it down. Yeah, I mean, Sam, your your 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.640 mother is uh state State State Center in South Dakota 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.240 dealt with a lot of these issues. Yes, so a 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.000 little bit of it. Yeah, and the big one, like 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.240 at the state level more than the federal level in 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.640 South Dakota was most recently there was a change in 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:27.000 the law to UM. So in South Dakota. When the 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.440 state was founded, they put the water in public trust, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.720 so it's called the public trust doctrine. So the people 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.640 of the state owned the water, so that no one 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.760 had a superior right to do with the water what 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.720 they wanted to do with it. So um. But more, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.960 they just passed the law that did end up giving 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.400 um that my mom thought this really hard. Um. But 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.440 they passed a law that gives superior right to the 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.720 landowner to be able to close off access to a 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.720 public resource. Um just because they don't want people to 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.800 come near their property. Um So, even though somebody might 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.440 be floating on top of the public water, even though 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.320 there's private land underneath. Because a lot of the eastern 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:10.320 half of South Dakota flooded. Um just through a long 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.320 series of um complaints and different things that happened in 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.440 lawsuits and different things, the legislature unfortunately passed the law 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.920 that closed down I mean could potentially close down up 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.160 close to half million acres of public resource. So she's 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.680 been on I don't a lot to fight that, um, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.320 and she hasn't done dealt much with any of the 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.720 public land stuff at the federal level. But it just 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.520 goes to show you it doesn't matter what level you're at. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.240 It's like it's you know, it's a fight to protect 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.440 it all. Yeah. I think that's another misunderstanding to when 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:46.080 these Utah delegation continues to bring forth these uh comments 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.720 and plans to do things. A lot of folks think that, oh, well, 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.920 that's just in Utah, like that's whatever I lived somewhere else, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.840 so it's not that important of an issue. But the 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.640 reality is, you know, when he's talking about some of 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:05.000 the things he would like to do, it would impact everything. Yeah. Yeah, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.640 I mean well, I mean I listened to the link 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.439 cut out on me when I was listening to a speech, 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.199 so I only got about halfway through it, but it, uh, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:20.680 it seemed to me that he was just kind of 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.280 guessing that most people wouldn't do the research on like 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.840 what public land actually is and would just follow along 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.359 with kind of what he was saying because he's and 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.239 you know, an elective official and he should have all 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.199 the answers, and so I think, um, it was like 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.760 almost like a marketing speech, like like selling people on 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:46.040 the idea, like that his idea was correct, and spinning 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.920 it in a way that you know, made this like 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.119 one of America's most you know, precious resources, making it 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.080 seem like it was something for the you know, the 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.399 only the elite people. Well, there's there's nuance happening, right, 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.520 We all as hunters have to agree that the states 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.760 can better manage wildlife that's in our North American model 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.120 of conservation is held in trust by the states. So 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.960 that's at one level we're saying the states are best suited. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.560 The state biologists, state widlife biologists and state game agencies 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.680 run hunting. They and when we buy Pittman Robertson's funds 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.280 go through the federal government back to state agencies. So 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.840 it's it's not that they're incapable of doing it. And 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.480 so there's nuance to that conversation. So you could use 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.320 that point and argue all day that that why would 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.960 why would states not want to own that land when 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.600 state wildlife managers are the ones that we trust and 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.800 wildlife biologists to dictate how we hunt and where are 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:46.159 we hunt and how we do it and what it 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.400 costs and where we can go. But at the same 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.480 time you understand, like, while that is true, what's also 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.320 true is if that if the states own that land, 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.280 the governors, state legislator their dictate. Their dictation is too 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.800 control the budget and balance the budget. That's their job. 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.359 And historically, especially in Utah, when you give them the 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.080 ownership of public lands, they will balance the budget and 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.840 sell what could be an albatross for for the state budget. 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.919 So I think we all need to be able to 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.520 talk through. Hey, look, we all on the states rights 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.600 kind of guy. I guess when it when it makes sense, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.640 um when it doesn't that I'm not, but I think 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.440 we need. We can get caught up in a one 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.320 politician thinking that that states rights lane and sticking to 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.280 it and never will That's what Mike Lee does. He 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.120 just talks about it. He's like, states right, States right, 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.720 States right. I'm with the states rights most of the time, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.840 but in this one case, you're you're wrong. I mean 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:49.639 a lot of it comes down to finances, right. I 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.119 mean I think a lot most everybody could admit that 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.520 the fed federal government could do a better job managing 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.240 the public lands the resources that we have right now, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.920 but they also aren't getting the funding that they're due 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.960 because of how Congress is budgeting the money to be had, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.600 right I mean, that's one of the biggest challenges currently 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.720 is that the federal resources and managers don't really have 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.040 much to work with. And then you look on the 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.760 contrary side of that, like Ben's point is, if states 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.080 did have suddenly control over all of these additional acreages 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.359 and resources, how the heck can they pay for the 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.000 stuff that right now the federal government struggling to degree 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.159 to pay for. And so it comes down to this 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.720 financial challenge of well, and there's been some can be 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.960 afforded in the public land sphere, there's been some winds 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.720 In the recent omnibus package that the spending bill that 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.960 was passed. They set some some rules against fire borrowing, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.160 which is when um, when uh fire happens on public 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.200 lands a lot of times the budget that was that's 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.399 there for wildlife managers and land managers to manage that 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.760 public land. They're taking money out of their pockets to 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.879 put the fire out, and that's millions, millions, billions of 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:07.000 dollars and so that I'm gonna package had some language 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.480 in it that said, can't do that anymore, or it's limited. 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.720 And there's a laundry list of of what I would 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.600 consider winds for UH public land and public land owners 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:22.439 and users. And so I think that on the micro side, 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.480 there's a lot of things we can say, let's go 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:29.600 on the right way. But there again, there's some folks 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.680 in Utah that would would likely say, hey, look we'll 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.280 take We'll take those micro losses if we can convince 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:41.359 enough people that the that states need to run this land. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.200 And then at the end of the day, I'm trying 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.120 to look up the numbers in Utah. Some percentage of 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.720 state held land and Utah has already been sold off. 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:52.639 I don't know what the number is, but it's a 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:58.000 significant number. I think people underestimate the sentiment of Utah's 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.840 Utah's Southern Utah, especially like Mike Lee is a well 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.160 like guy um in my neck of the woods. Um 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.800 with the people that I know, the people that that 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:13.400 I run with, so um Or and Hatch we talked 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.560 about orn Hatch earlier. Um he was elected in Utah 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.760 and he ran on the platform of the stage Brush 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.960 Rebellion His whole thing was give us the land back, 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.159 or we're gonna succeed from the United States. And he 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.639 won on that platform in Utah, and he got to 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.280 Washington and learned that that wasn't the way things worked, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.000 and um, yeah, and people hate him for that. They 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:35.640 hate him for the fact that he didn't follow through 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:40.000 on that. So it's just the mentality is different. I 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.879 was raised in that kind of a mentality screw the 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.920 federal right and and large degree I feel like that. 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.520 I'm like you're saying, you know, states rights for me 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.160 of the time, and it took me until a lot 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:55.960 of kind of conversations like this to sit down with 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.280 people and realize the importance of the federal government in 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.120 managing our public lands. Because I saw the opposite side 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:03.679 of that, and and that was what was taught to 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.080 me the whole time I was growing up. Yeah, that's 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:08.560 a big part of it, and a big part of 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.800 the hunting population leans right and leans states rights. And 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.440 except for good reasons, I'm not a big fan of 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.720 the federal government and a lot of things, but I 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.040 do shure like Rhods, you know that I'm driving on. 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.639 I do shure like all the little the things that 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:28.600 my tax dodge go to the fund um. But again 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.159 there there's just there's just nuance to that story. And 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.840 when you grow up in the situation you had been that. 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.680 I don't wholly disagree with that, but I do there's 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.119 like an at the end of the day, which and 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:43.040 this is different than the gun debate. I always tried 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:44.600 to draw comparisons to that because you look at the 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:46.720