WEBVTT - Nik Storonsky 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.200 In twenty fifteen, Nick Keoronsky started a small company designed 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.440 to help people with their foreign currency exchanges. Today that 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.880 company is Revolute. It is the most valuable pre IPO 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.480 company in all of Europe. I had a chance recently 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.319 in Washington, DC to sit down with Nick Keoronsky to 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.000 talk about his amazing story how he grew a very 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.800 small company into such a giant financial behemoth. Let's talk 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:30.160 about Revolute because it's a company that's based in UK, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.000 focus more on Europe than the United States. We'll get 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.199 to that in a moment, but let's talk about what 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.960 it does for the American audience. For example, what is Revolute? 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:40.400 What does it actually do well? 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.479 I wrote, it does a digital bank, so we provide 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.919 global banking services for our people in more than fourty countries. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.479 So everything is expected into one simple up. So you 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.279 can do your banking, You can do a wealth management, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:01:00.200 stock trading, CDs, bones, crypt can borrow mania also have 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.560 a lifestyle service. For example, it can get yourself or 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:06.560 you can book a lounge, you can book a hotel 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:08.760 and so on. So everything is in one up for 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:09.880 your financial services. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:11.800 Do you have a partner to start it with? 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.880 I actually started alone. So I built a product, I 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.399 hired a team, then one fire first siture that I hired, 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.360 so later made him or I think it was till 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.680 seventeen eighteen. I made him co founder as well because 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.480 it was easier for him to kind of, you know, 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.800 recruit engineers if he had title co founder. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.800 So you start the company and the mission you had 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.480 was to enable people to do what that they couldn't do. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:41.720 What was your purpose in starting a company? 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.720 So I was a trader back then, and then I'm 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.680 very quick in calculating numbers in my head. And then 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.040 every time when I went abroad or when I send money, 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.000 I could instantly calculate, okay I lost here, ten dollars, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.880 fifty dollars and so on. And my initial idea was 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:00.840 to build a product, a simple up with a cut 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.480 at tasted that allows you to spend money anywhere in 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.800 the world at interomand create so saving effects to fifty 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.600 to seventy dollars and every one thousand dollars that you spent. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.240 In other words, you weren't trying to convert people's currency. 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.520 You were letting them have a card that would enable 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.320 them to buy something and whatever currency they wanted. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.720 Yeah, so it's both right. You can pre exchange currency 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.639 or you can buy directly from your existing currency. 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.720 Normally throughout Europe. When you go to Europe, you see 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.840 everywhere currency exchange places and they always charge a fee. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.480 I don't remember what it is, six seven percent. So 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.080 you decided to start a currency exchange business without charging 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:42.480 a fee. 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:47.000 You can call currency exchange businesses intermand create without charging 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:47.359 a few. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.920 Correctly, you didn't go out and build a physical bank. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.959 You did it all online, is that right? 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:52.440 Exactly? 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.520 Yeah? So how did you get people to know about 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.240 this service? Did you start advertising online anything? 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.480 We didn't spend any single marketing for the was five 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.120 to some years for being in operation, so it was 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.320 all a road of mouth. So I remember when I 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.320 finally launched the product. It was somewher twenty fifteen, and 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.400 I physically, you know, I was selling my product to friends, family, 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.120 even on people I don't know. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.639 Okay, So if I go to one then today and 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.320 I say, here's ten dollars and I wanted to change 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.359 it on a regular place that I would get back 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.760 pounds minus about a six seven eight percent fee. So 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.400 if I went on your service, what would I get 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.839 back if I when I get back everything with birth 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.400 CERTA essentially no fee exactly. Then you make the money 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.760 in effect on the float because you're getting paid by somebody, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.080 and then you kind of can invest that money and 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:50.839 then you don't have to pay somebody for a while. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:51.760 Is that how you make the. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.240 Money several time when you were spent with a cod 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.320 MESSI defectly pay pays two to three percent. Yeah, okay, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.160 well that's not customer pain but rather a business itself. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.000 But I want to be clear that was initial product 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.720 in twenty fifteen. Now, especially for your customers, we have 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:13.120 fully kind of licensed digital bank providing all kinds of services. 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.120 You have a European banking license, now, is that right? 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.840 So we have European Bank all so we are regulated 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.159 by European Central Bank. We have a UK banking license 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.920 regulated by PRA. Then we also have multiple other licenses 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.040 for example Mexico, Columbia, Toison. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.000 And you're now applying for a US banking license. Correct, 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.640 How long does it take to get a US banking license? 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.799 Right now? It should take out up to twelve months, 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.800 but again it depends, so official target is four months. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.960 But then there are multiple steps involved, it can be longer. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.640 Are you confident that you can get a banking license 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.240 in the United States? You think you'll get it? 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.120 I think it's obviously much easier for us given a 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:59.120 new administration, plus that we have so many other banking licenses, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.279 plus we have a bank lesson you Cano, So for 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.919 us it became much easier compared to two years ago. 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:06.560 Do you have a credit card business as well? 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.760 You will have credit cars in several markets, yes. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.320 Is that? And you have credit cards and debit cards. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.160 We have debit casts in every single market and the 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.800 credit cards I think in five or six markets. So 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.960 in Europe have twenty percent plantration, so one out of 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.800 five adults in Europe they use Revelute cars and then 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.479 as certn mIRC as we have much high penetration. For example, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.560 in Ireland we have four out of five adults using Revelute. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.560 So younger people seem to like things that are called cryptocurrencies. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.000 Are you involved in cryptocurrencies? Do you trade cryptocurrencies or 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:42.040 make markets for people? 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.880 So as a business, we have a pretty large crypto 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.400 currency business. I think we are the largest. We have 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:54.640 the largest crypto business in Europe with our volumes personally, 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.279 I don't speculate crypto, but I use it sometimes, you know, 0:05:58.320 --> 0:05:58.960 for transfers. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.080 So in the United States, what do you hope to 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.640 be able to do with your banking license if you 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.360 get it? What is the market gap that you think 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.600 you can feel that maybe others aren't doing. 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.640 So basically I mentioned a radioh retail business. So it's 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.240 one simple up where you can do everything what you 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.960 need for your financial life. And then second direction, well 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.280 also provide the revolute business accounts for businesses. And again 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.480 it's end to end services that you need to run 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:29.000 your business. So payments, banking, credit will come as well, 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.640 wealth management or treasury, well call it treasury, then acquiring 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.520 as well. So for example, right now, if I'm an 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.320 American company, I'll need to stop say Stripe for acquiring, 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.440 then GPY Morgan for my business banking. Then you know, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.279 something else for payouts, something else for payroll. So we 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.799 provide all these services in one product. 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.400 Well, if you conquer the US the way you've conquered 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.320 the UK and Europe, is China next, or you're not 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:57.240 going to focus on that? 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.599 Eis your way Definitely focusing, So spending a lot of 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.880 time studying Asia and then as a sarch. So we 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.159 applied it for multiple banking licenses in Asia as well, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.360 and then some of them but we got already. And 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.440 then China is on the least as well. You know, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.400 one day I hope we can set up a business there. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:17.240 Now, some people have written that your bank revelute is 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.360 worth seventy five billion dollars? Have you ever thought of 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:21.800 taking your organization public? 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.880 But the way I think about it will be ready 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.920 to probably in two year's time. But then again depends 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.840 on how good the market is. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.480 Bench you don't have an IPO, how do people who 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.400 work for you make some money? You make a market 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.520 for people to sell their shares internally? 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.640 Yeah, so we do secondaries every one or two years 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.800 when people can sell certain portion of their stocks to 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:46.880 excel investors. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.720 So you've done secondary sales for your employees, so employees 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.800 can then get some liquidity. Do you expect before you 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:55.640 go public you'll do any more of those or you're 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.360 just going to wait to you go public before you 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.200 liquefy any more stock. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.480 Yeah, I think so we might do secondaries as well 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.600 before we do IPO, because we do it every one 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.880 or two years. So we might do a second results. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.360 All right, Well, if anybody wants to sell their shares 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.120 to me, let me know. And have any investment bankers 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.040 told you why they're the best to do the IPO 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:14.600 for you? 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.320 Yeah, obviously every single one is the best. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.360 Everyone is the best. You're not in a rush to 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:18.560 do it. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.640 You don't need the money, so we a bank. And 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.720 then for the bank, it's super important to have trust. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.040 And then public companies are trusted and more compared to 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.040 private companies. So there's the reason. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.600 What are you most proud of having done so far 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:33.840 and what do you most enjoy? 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.800 Well, it's basically designing something, designing solution to solve a 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.040 problem that I see it are being realized, and then 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.440 are using it. That's what I enjoy when I see 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:44.480 some elegant solution. 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.040 Many people think that companies like yours, which are often 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:53.600 called fin tech companies financial technology companies are changing the 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.439 world dramatically, but they could be changed dramatically. So for example, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.800 artificial intelligence is coming along. You worried about ourtificial intelligence? 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.680 Or do you use artificial intelligence to help grow your company? 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.040 An additional tool that we obviously use and I think 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:11.720 with LLM chatbots, so it's another surface on top of 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.439 the infrastructure that we build, because banking is not a 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.480 simple UP right under UP you have a lot of 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.240 back end, a lot of systems, and a lot of 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.199 regulatory systems and so on. And then UP is effective 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.200 interface to all this back end logic. And then LLM 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.400 can be something on top of the UP or directly 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.840 interacting with our back end logic. So call it another interface. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.440 That's what we're building as well and allowing people to 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.520 interact with all our products through Childbot. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.880 Let's talk about how you came to start the company. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.320 So you are doesn't sound like you're a native of 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:50.560 England from your. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.680 Accent, originally from Russia. So it came to u K 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.800 first in two thousand and six for the internship, then 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.920 in two thousand and seven I came for another internship 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:04.240 afterwards our estate to be employed by Leman Brothers as 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:04.880 a trader. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.000 And at what age did you leave Russia? 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.800 Twenty years old? And then as soon as I finished 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.640 my university I moved to London to work full time 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:14.800 for Leman Brothers. 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.839 And were your parents educated? Are they math specialists or 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:20.360 they have computer training or not? 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.280 So my father he is a physicist by training. My mother, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:26.160 she's a teacher. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.280 I assume you're a pretty good math student or a 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.959 physics student or something because you have technology background. 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.760 I assume yeah, I was always trained in mass physics 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:35.240 as well. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.560 Right, So you go to England and did you have 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.480 a job lined up before you got there? 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.480 So Lyman Brothers came to my university and then they 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.160 tried to recruit some people for the internship. So they 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.880 recruited me for internship. I came there in summer two 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.360 thousand and six, and then they invited miss for second 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.600 internship in the spring two thousand and seven, and they 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.080 also gave me a job for a full time when 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.960 I graduated from my university. So when I graduated in July, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.720 I think it was July two thousand and seven, I 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.000 came to London to rock full time for Lehman Brothers. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.680 Didn't Leman go under at some point. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.600 Two thousand and eight, Yes, I wasn't Are you there then? 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:18.080 Yeah? 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.079 I was there. I was one of probably two hundred 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.720 people on the trading floor. It all happened. I still remember. 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.800 There was Sunday evening announcement and then I was wondering 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:31.680 I could do I need to come on Monday morning 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.400 to my kind of job? So I came and then 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.959 we had all these two hundred traders locked at one 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.040 trading floor. Everything, all the systems were locked, and we're 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.160 all playing the same game. I think it was a 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.680 game shooting helicopters or something, all all two hurrying people 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:47.640 because there was nothing to do. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.120 So did you think capitalism wasn't such a great system 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.920 at that point when you go to Lehman Brothers and 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.559 they go bankrupt and you're out of work. 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.720 Yeah, I was full of confidence right about myself. I 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.320 was not afraid to lose the job because I knew 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:02.680 I can always find any one. 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.960 So did you have a hard time finding another job? No? 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.640 I got kind of a job from the Mura and 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.119 then from Credit. 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.800 Swiss as well. All right, and so where did you go? 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.959 I went to Cratsis, I went to Credit Swiss. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.360 They've had their problems too. Actually, did you leave Credit 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:22.920 Swiss before they had their problems? 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:28.360 Yeah, of course I left Credit swiez twenty thirteen. So 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.680 basically as soon as I got my British passport I resigned, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.240 and then when I came to UK. It was never 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.199 a kind of objective to stay there more than two years. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.520 I always wanted to start my own business. But then 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.520 I know, I said one year, then the second year, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.559 and the third year, and then after year six, when 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.720 I got my passport, I decided to resign and then 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:51.760 start my own business. 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.839 Okay, you started your business in twenty fifteen. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.480 So I started working in twenty thirteen and I launched 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:58.439 it twenty fifteen. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.000 Did you have any capital to help you start the company? 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.280 I have my own savings, yes, right, so you. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:04.920 Put in some of your own money, but you presumably 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.600 weren't a multi billionaire, so you didn't put in that 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.160 much money, right, I. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.840 Mean back then I put probably about or half a 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.520 million dollars half a million overall. But obviously I also 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.440 didn't work for two years myself, so if you don't 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.120 count my salary, I didn't have any salary. So to 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.640 build something back then was my ship I compared to 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.079 you nowadays, you have. 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.200 A venture capital arm I it's called Quantum Light. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.600 So it's a separate business. CE think it was three 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.880 years ago as entrepreneur. I've done a lot of fundraising 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.319 rounds with the vcs, and then I think at a 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.480 certain point of time. I was very pissed off with 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:48.440 the crowd thinking mentality right. So I had cases when 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.640 termships were withdrawn, sign termshets, I had cases when a 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.800 round was mucked down because I spro was down. So 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.760 I had quite a lot of negative experience with the vcs. 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.480 And then as a founder, I also wanted to invest 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.160 my own money and I thought I can create something 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.360 better in terms of investment. I think that has to 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.800 be a scientific approach rather than human judgment. And then 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:17.800 we build effective models that invest in startups Series B 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.920 based on millions and millions data points on our startups, 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.280 so they are trained machine learning models that invest plus. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.680 On top of it, I'm able to share with these 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:32.280 statups my perisional knowledge. As a fund of revlut Plus, 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.200 we help our startups to distribute their product for Revolute 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.080 or to sell into Revolute, So we're all it's much 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.480 better value proposition to funders compared to VC. 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.320 What would you call you what you're doing angel investing 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.400 or around A or we. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.680 Do serious B. We started we just launched a fund 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:51.440 for serious LYS. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.600 What did you raise money for it? I assume people 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.200 gave you all the money you wanted, but did you 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.000 just use your own money and your friends money? Did 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:58.160 you have to go out and raise money? 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.560 First fund was two hundred and fifty million, so I 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.320 put around twenty five percent of my own money under. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.800 The rest was external LPCE and. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.840 What types of rates of return do you think you 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:09.720 can get in that fund? 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.280 So basically, when I had this idea, when we build 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.440 a model and then we started back testing the model, 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:20.520 it produces effectively forty to fifty percent a year on 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.920 the year returns, long term returns. So when we started 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.680 investing based on the model, I think now we are 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.720 called top four or five percent of the funds the 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:34.320 world in terms of returns. So it's usually thirty to 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.360 forty returns. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.480 So you ever use your credit card and it gets 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.480 turned down. In other words, you got to use a 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.560 credit card at a restaurant or somewhere and they say 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.320 your credits tonight? Is whatever happened to you? 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.800 Initially? Yes, yeah, but it was more than a eight 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.800 nine years ago when service wasn't that stable. Now we 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:52.880 just don't have declines. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.800 But now that happened to you, did you tell people 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.280 who you were? You didn't say, look, I'm the founder 0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:58.840 of the company. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.880 And was just coding engineers and trying to find out 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.480 what happened. YI is declined. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.840 How many customers a rebel doold have? Now? 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.040 So have seventy five million customers. 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:10.560 How big do you think you can take it? Do 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.320 you think you can take it to one hundred million 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:13.160 customers or more? 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.320 Yeah, we can definitely take it to a hundred million customers. 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.400 Our internal target is one hundred million daily active customers, 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.800 and then one hundred million daily active customers will transfer 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.680 about three hundred million monthly actives. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.600 It's said that companies, if they're really going to survive 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.560 and prosper for over many period years at the time, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.840 they have to have a good culture. What is the 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.800 culture you're trying to build in your company? 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.840 So we have these five cultural values pretty well defined, 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.560 starting with never settle, so never settlers, about being ambitious 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:48.400 and setting up for big goals. Secondly, it's about dream team, 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.480 so we prefer to work in a small team of 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.920 extremely high intelligent people rather than in the lash teams 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.920 for average people. Or third one is get things done. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.639 It's very important to be kind of you know, getting 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:09.360 things done oriented. Then we have a cultural principle called deliverable. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.000 It's about almost perfection in everything what we do in 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.200 terms of product. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.719 I suppose I say I have an account at a 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.679 famous British bank, but I'm not happy with it, and 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.240 I feel secure because I know they got all these 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.359 buildings there and it seems like they have a lot 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.600 of money behind them. You don't have any physical place 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.200 for me to go right exactly. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.320 So we are solving this trust issue through different methods. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.719 For example, yes, absolutely correct, it's important for people visually 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.720 see a big building of massive columns and then feel 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.639 as you know, there's in a lot of money behind 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.840 the building. So we do differently as we build trust 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.640 and reputation through brand. So for example, if you look 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.760 at European airports, so majority of European airports we advertise 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.000 on affectedly buy the whole airport and then advertise on 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.639 the whole airport, on the bridge just and so on. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.960 So we would build a brand through a lot of 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.600 advertising rather than having these massive buildings. 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.760 Banks we're in the business hundreds of years ago principally 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.000 to do two things. One have a place where people 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.600 can park their money and also to borrow money. You 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.199 borrow money from banks can I borrow money from you, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.359 it can borrow money for loss, right, So where do 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:23.080 you get the money? 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:25.280 Balance it right? 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.119 The reason people like dealing with you rather than the 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.040 big conventional bank is that you're less expensive. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.800 So well, not only saving the money, we're also saving 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.520 that time everything is automated. 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.800 If you look at the future of the financial service world, 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.600 do you think that there's a future for large banks 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.720 to keep having these big buildings or do you think 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.920 ultimately five or ten or fifteen years from now, everybody's 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.120 going to be online with everything in five times? 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.360 Yes, then we'll see one and more consolidation and thing. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.119 We'll see more and more certain digital champions and the 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:01.520 regions taking one and more banking shs regions. So maybe 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.560 it will take ten years, maybe it'll take fifteen years, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.919 twenty years. But I do think that we'll see less 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:12.879 and less legacy banks, or less and less legacy banks 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.120 will make so much money. 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.359 So are you enjoying doing all this? Are you enjoy 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.280 running the bank, running the adventure fund and doing interviews 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.000 with people like me? Are you having a good time 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:24.520 or you're not that happy? 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.360 I mean certain like certain things I like, certain things 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.600 I don't like so I love building products. I love 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:39.080 kind of solving problems. I don't like delays, which can 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.800 be quite often in the regulatory business, because certain things 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.440 can be outside of for kind of you know, your 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.159 decision making and speed. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.640 What are the skill sets that you think are required 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.680 to build a company like this and do you look 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.080