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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Hi, it's Jason Kelly. I'm the chief correspondent for Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Originals and co host of The Deal with my partner

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Speaker 2: Alex Rodriguez. I also wrote a book about the private

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Speaker 2: equity industry called The New Tycoons. It's all about the

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Speaker 2: firms and the people at the center of this massive industry,

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Speaker 2: and no one was bigger than David Bonderman, who died

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Speaker 2: on December eleventh at the age of eighty two. He

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Speaker 2: co founded TPG back in the early nineteen nineties and

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Speaker 2: along the way became a face for the booming deal world,

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Speaker 2: engineering takeovers of everything from Continental Airlines to Burger King

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Speaker 2: to j crwe specializing in deals few others would go near.

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Speaker 2: He was also an iconoclast, building his firm far from

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Speaker 2: Wall Street, basing TPG in San Francisco and Fort Worth,

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Speaker 2: and choosing khakis over suits, and inviting rock stars to

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Speaker 2: his annual investor meetings.

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Speaker 1: Few knew him.

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Speaker 2: Better than Jim Colter, his TPG co founder, who met

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Speaker 2: Bonderman when the two men started working for the Bass

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Speaker 2: Family in were Worth almost forty years ago. They created

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Speaker 2: TPG together in nineteen ninety three, Jim joined me in

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Speaker 2: New York to talk about Bonderman and his profound influence

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Speaker 2: on the investing world and beyond. Obviously a very sad day, Jim,

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Speaker 2: for the team at TPG, for really the entire investing world. So,

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Speaker 2: first of all, condolence is of the loss of your

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Speaker 2: longtime partner, and thank you for spending some time with

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Speaker 2: us here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason.

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Speaker 2: So David Bondman, it's amazing to read about his impact

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Speaker 2: on the broader investment world. He is a one of

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Speaker 2: the best known names, one of the icons. You knew

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Speaker 2: him better than anybody in this business. What specifically did

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Speaker 2: he bring to this business that was unique to him?

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Speaker 3: David really is a legend in the industry.

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Speaker 4: But he's a legend for several reasons, and I think

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Speaker 4: there's three particular things. First of all, he pioneered a

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Speaker 4: type of investing. Secondly, he built a firm that had

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Speaker 4: a distinctive place in the industry. And thirty had a

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Speaker 4: really trusting personal style that I think helped evolve the style.

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Speaker 3: Of this industry.

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Speaker 1: And so what did he do, how did that work

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Speaker 1: in practice?

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Speaker 2: What was he doing as a deal maker that really

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Speaker 2: set him apart.

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Speaker 3: David did deal making as problem solving.

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Speaker 4: So if you think about some of his signature deals,

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Speaker 4: they were deals that everyone saw.

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Speaker 3: But no one else was willing to take on.

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Speaker 4: And it wasn't that he was taking on more risk,

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Speaker 4: it was that he saw something different. Take the Continental

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Speaker 4: Airlines deal, legendary deal in the industry, the most hated

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Speaker 4: company in America, the biggest bankruptcy in US history.

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Speaker 3: It sat there for two years.

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Speaker 4: Dave and I put together a deal that carved out

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Speaker 4: a new Continental and took it from worse to first

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Speaker 4: in seven years. Warren Buffett said that airlines were financial sinkholes.

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Speaker 4: David over and over made successful investments in airlines. When

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Speaker 4: others saw the SNL crisis, David saw the SNL opportunity unity.

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Speaker 4: We created the good bank bad bank structure for American

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Speaker 4: savings when working with Bess, and then we exported that

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Speaker 4: structure around the world to do bank rescues in China,

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Speaker 4: in Korea. Again, deals that no one else did, and

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Speaker 4: that a problem solving approach really was appeared at a

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Speaker 4: moment that the industry was mostly about changing capital structures,

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Speaker 4: not companies.

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Speaker 2: All right, So you said something to me before we

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Speaker 2: came on air, which I found fascinating, which is that

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Speaker 2: David was a polymath investor. The Blueberg audience is pretty smart,

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Speaker 2: but you need to break this down what that actually

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Speaker 2: means in practice.

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Speaker 4: Poly Math is from the Greek and it's basically a

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Speaker 4: person who has broad and diverse interests but uses that

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Speaker 4: knowledge and interest to solve problems. And so David really

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Speaker 4: didn't come to investing until his forties.

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Speaker 3: Think about that. He had several careers before.

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Speaker 4: He was a litigator, He was argued in front of

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Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. He taught law Tulane, he studied Islamic

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Speaker 4: law on Tunis. This was a person that ever took

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Speaker 4: a finance class, didn't know accounting, and yet was he

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Speaker 4: brought that broad experience and problem solving expertise to the

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Speaker 4: problems of investing. And his ability to use different experiences

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Speaker 4: he had to solve problems I think really created his style,

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Speaker 4: and it's a polymast style.

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Speaker 3: It was not one thing.

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Speaker 4: It was a unique ability to see opportunity and frankly

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Speaker 4: solve problems well.

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Speaker 2: And it translated into him being I have to say,

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Speaker 2: one of those eclectic, maybe eccentric sort of figures in

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Speaker 2: an industry that didn't always Certainly the broader Wall Street doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Always sort of embrace change.

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Speaker 2: So how was he received in this broader Wall Street world?

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Speaker 3: In your estimation, David was many things, but he was

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Speaker 3: never boring.

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Speaker 4: We used to laugh that David often brought like a

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Speaker 4: rock and roll backbeat into rooms that were used to

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Speaker 4: classical music. It was a very different style. He was

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Speaker 4: known for his ridiculous socks. I mean, there were just ridiculous.

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Speaker 4: When others were drinking fine wine, he was drinking diet coke.

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Speaker 4: He's flew one thousand hours a year to meetings anywhere.

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Speaker 4: It's a very personal thing for him. And his style

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Speaker 4: was informal, it was direct. He couldn't stand obfuscation. And

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Speaker 4: that style was sort of a different, a different wind

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Speaker 4: in the industry at the time, and it opened up

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Speaker 4: the opportunity for different types of styles to really flourish.

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Speaker 4: It's an industry that had incredible talent among its founding brethren,

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Speaker 4: but David brought I think a little bit of a

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Speaker 4: different attitude and frankly, you know, a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: Into a very serious business.

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Speaker 1: And so how do you build to firm around that?

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Speaker 2: I mean that you can be sort of a you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of an iconoclast as a single person.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe as a small firm.

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Speaker 2: You guys started out as three people in ninety two,

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Speaker 2: ninety three, but now thousands of employees, quarter trillion dollars

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Speaker 2: in assets. How does that sort of grow into something

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Speaker 2: this big.

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Speaker 3: I've been doing this long time. Culture and curiosity.

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Speaker 4: So in some ways what we described you and I

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Speaker 4: about David became how you describe TPG in some ways.

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Speaker 4: At a time that the industry was very much about finance,

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Speaker 4: was very much focused in New York, we came out

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Speaker 4: of a family office in Texas.

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Speaker 3: We set up on the West Coast.

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Speaker 4: I used to say that, and you do sports a lot, Jason,

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Speaker 4: that we were playing the same game, but differently. We

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Speaker 4: were the West Coast offense of private equity. And to

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Speaker 4: do that you have to get a culture of curiosity

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Speaker 4: and problem solving. And I think at the first fundraise

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Speaker 4: we did for TPG, our tagline was contrarianism, complexity, and change.

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Speaker 4: At a time the industry was more focused on franchise

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Speaker 4: businesses in finance. Contrarianism, complexity, and change, and I think

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Speaker 4: those lines of problem solving and a different approach Really

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Speaker 4: were what David brought to the business in the early days.

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Speaker 1: Not afraid to take big swings.

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Speaker 2: I mean, was that but you know part of his

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Speaker 2: ethos do you think, like being able to really go

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Speaker 2: big on something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was never about ego or size. It was

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Speaker 4: about really interesting problems and sometimes we got it wrong. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: if you're doing this type of investing, you know five

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Speaker 4: percent of the time you'll make mistakes, and probably you

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Speaker 4: should be taking that sort of risk. But the key

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Speaker 4: is never make the same mistakes if you can help it,

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Speaker 4: and importantly learn from all of them. And David and

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Speaker 4: I think our firm has been a lifelong learner on those.

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Speaker 3: So I think somehow.

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Speaker 4: We've been able to grow with the industry but still

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Speaker 4: keep some of that essence of doing it a little

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Speaker 4: differently and looking at new deals. I mean even today,

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Speaker 4: as you know, Jason, we've taken on impact investing, climate investing.

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Speaker 4: These are new things, new problems, done in a new way,

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Speaker 4: and that ethos I think was what we started with

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Speaker 4: almost forty years ago, and we've tried to very much

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Speaker 4: guard today.

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Speaker 1: How'd you build a partnership with him?

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Speaker 2: You guys are not the same you showed up in Texas.

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Speaker 2: You know, Dartmouth undergrad Stanford Business School. He was a

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Speaker 2: University of Washington bankruptcy lawyer save Grand Central. How does

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Speaker 2: that marriage of a sort happen?

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Speaker 3: I think there's two types of partnerships.

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Speaker 4: One are people who are very much the same, almost

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Speaker 4: can complete each other's sentences. The other type of partnership

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Speaker 4: are people who are very different but share the same values.

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Speaker 4: And I think David and I brought different skill sets,

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Speaker 4: different views of the world, but values on fairness, the

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Speaker 4: idea of you can leave the last cent on the

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Speaker 4: table to create a win win, and we agreed on

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Speaker 4: the type of firm and culture we wanted to build.

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Speaker 4: So complimented each other, respected each other, but also brought

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Speaker 4: some balance to the equation.

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Speaker 2: How do you think he changed you as an investor

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Speaker 2: and as an executive?

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Speaker 4: I think David was, as well as being a great investor,

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Speaker 4: simply a great business person.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's served on eighty different corporate boards. Who

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Speaker 3: does that? You know?

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Speaker 4: Eighty different corporate boards, from GM to Dakati, from Behringer

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Speaker 4: to Burger King. Immensely diverse, and that viewpoint something was

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Speaker 4: often underestimated with David really helped me be.

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Speaker 3: A bit better businessman.

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Speaker 4: It's about being straightforward, it's about seeing different things. It's

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Speaker 4: about patients from time to time, and even when things

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Speaker 4: go wrong, you don't step back, you step in. So

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Speaker 4: I think his polymath skills really extended into the business world.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier this is a massive, massive industry at

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Speaker 2: this point that what we used to call private equity,

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Speaker 2: it's now alternative investing these firms, including yours, or doing

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Speaker 2: lots of different things.

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Speaker 1: How do you take.

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Speaker 2: That Bonderman ethos, you know, the sort of like you

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Speaker 2: know he's calling in to an investment committee, meaning from

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Speaker 2: Timbuck to to you know, now a publicly traded company.

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Speaker 2: How do you maintain that essence? Because I know that

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Speaker 2: culture is something it's important to you, you study it,

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Speaker 2: how do you really institutionalize that culture.

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Speaker 4: Fight conformity in all ways? I think if you were

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Speaker 4: starting this business today, sometimes I think that people who

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Speaker 4: are looking at it field they have to learn finance

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Speaker 4: in their crib and have to go through internships.

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Speaker 3: David came to this, as I said before, in his forties.

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Speaker 4: He brought that wide set of experiences, and I think

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Speaker 4: the understanding that you can ask different questions, approach problems

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Speaker 4: in different ways is something the industry needs to.

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Speaker 3: Say true to today.

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Speaker 4: So that's spirit, the spirit of problem solving, curiosity, a

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Speaker 4: little bit of courage.

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Speaker 3: Put together with a broad view.

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Speaker 4: Is something the industry still needs today. And I think

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Speaker 4: the industry is delivering that men's talent in the industry.

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Speaker 4: We have to just make sure that it's not delivered

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Speaker 4: in one way.

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Speaker 2: And so as he sort of kind of moved on

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Speaker 2: from the firm, and we'll talk a little bit about

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Speaker 2: what he was doing in the latter years of his life.

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Speaker 2: You know, how did how how did you sort of

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Speaker 2: honor his legacy?

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Speaker 1: How did he stay involved?

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Speaker 4: Well, David always had broad interests and one of the

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Speaker 4: interesting things about his career is he's mentored and spawned

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Speaker 4: many businesses and helped many businesses, from Mark Lazari to

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Speaker 4: Tom Barrick to Mark's Stad to Wasijing Shan. There are

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Speaker 4: disciples around the industry that have picked up some of

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Speaker 4: his investing style in ethos and he continued to do

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Speaker 4: that as he continued to have TPG as a cornerstone.

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Speaker 4: But he went on, as you know, to be active

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Speaker 4: in sports and yes, he had been an investor in

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Speaker 4: the Celtics, but he did a typical Bondo thing. By

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Speaker 4: the way, just the nickname Bondo was different in the industry.

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Speaker 3: He did a typical Bondo.

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Speaker 4: Thing, which is he took on a problem no one

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Speaker 4: else would, bringing back a team indoors in Seattle, rebuilt

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Speaker 4: an arena where he had worked as a security guard when.

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Speaker 3: He was an undergrad at University of Washington.

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Speaker 4: It was a worthy outcome the Kraken, yet it was

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Speaker 4: done in a very Bondo polymath way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about that for a second, because I

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Speaker 2: was listening to something in preparation for this from Toddler Wicki,

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Speaker 2: who's the president of the Kraken, and he was talking

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Speaker 2: about the fact that the complexity was a feature, not

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Speaker 2: a bug, and that seemed to be sort of a

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Speaker 2: reflection of the sort of bondermin ethos of deal making.

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Speaker 3: Is that fair? That's a great way to put it.

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Speaker 4: And I saw that for thirty eight years that we

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Speaker 4: worked together. Is if something hadn't been done, you start

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Speaker 4: with a question of why not and the curiosity of

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Speaker 4: whether it might be done. So there had been much

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Speaker 4: talk in Seattle about bringing back teams, but the ability

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Speaker 4: to really take it on as a hard problem is

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Speaker 4: something that I think is very.

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Speaker 3: Much David's legacy.

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Speaker 4: He did that in business, he did it for the industry,

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Speaker 4: and he's done it in his life.

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Speaker 1: And so take me all the way back.

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Speaker 2: I mean, let's go all the way back to when

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Speaker 2: you first meet this guy again.

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Speaker 1: You show up in Texas, You're like, well, a tagated guy.

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Speaker 2: You're going to make your way on, you know, for

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Speaker 2: this this family that's doing some investing.

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Speaker 1: And you run across this kind and you're like, I'm sorry, what, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's cool.

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Speaker 2: You argue in front of the Supreme Court, what are

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Speaker 2: you going to tell me about in investing?

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Speaker 1: And yet he did, Like I was.

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Speaker 2: I was chatting with Tom Barrick earlier and he said,

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Speaker 2: you know, we were the farm system for this, you know,

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Speaker 2: great investor.

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Speaker 1: What was that like?

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Speaker 4: We were all fortunate to work with Bob Bess who

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Speaker 4: kind of gave us the leeway to develop this type

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Speaker 4: of style. But what was interesting is that David hadn't

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Speaker 4: really done much investing.

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Speaker 3: I was coming as a junior person. We had not

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Speaker 3: much of a team.

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Speaker 4: The first deal we did together was a cable TV

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Speaker 4: roll up, and we went on with a small office

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Speaker 4: to do the first reinsurance deal, something called National Reinsurance

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Speaker 4: buy out of Bell and Howell, bought Weston out of

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Speaker 4: un Airlines, sold the plosit to Donald Trump. A series

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Speaker 4: of deal after deal, and I think it was we

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Speaker 4: were kind of learning on the job.

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Speaker 3: We were undaunted by that.

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Speaker 4: And in some ways, not having the framework of how

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Speaker 4: it was supposed to work, we could create a different

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Speaker 4: framework of how.

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Speaker 3: It would work.

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Speaker 2: So tell me about the decision that you guys make

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Speaker 2: in ninety two. You're going to go after Continental Bob

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Speaker 2: Bess basically says, go with God, Like, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to do this, You guys can go do it on

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Speaker 2: your own.

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Speaker 1: What's that moment like? And do you know at that.

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Speaker 2: Point that you're creating something new and different or is

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Speaker 2: this just a deal that you're interested in doing?

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Speaker 4: Somewhere between deeply interesting and absolutely terrifying. Again, this is

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Speaker 4: the most hated company in the country, the biggest bankruptcy

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Speaker 4: in US corporate history. No one else is showing up,

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Speaker 4: We have no money, we have to put together the money,

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Speaker 4: do the deal, etc.

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Speaker 3: But it was a.

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Speaker 4: Fascinating one of the most fascinating business problems I've ever seen,

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Speaker 4: So in some ways what motivated us was the problem

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Speaker 4: and the opportunity. It was like a hunk of marble

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Speaker 4: and you had to see what was inside it. So

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Speaker 4: I think for us we probably didn't know better. If

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Speaker 4: someone was starting a business today, this particular deal would

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Speaker 4: have in capitals at the bottom, don't try this at home.

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Speaker 4: But we did try it at home, and that made

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Speaker 4: all the difference.

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Speaker 2: How did you know that it was going to then

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Speaker 2: become that there was a business to be built out

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Speaker 2: of doing this?

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Speaker 1: How soon did you make the decision?

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Speaker 2: What was that decision like to create an entirely new firm.

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Speaker 4: After we did the Continental deal, we had a long

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Speaker 4: discussion because at that time there were two ways we

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Speaker 4: could have gone. We could have kept doing deal by deal,

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Speaker 4: which was a Richard Rainwater model, or we could build

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Speaker 4: a firm.

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Speaker 3: We made the.

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Speaker 4: Call then that the industry was going to develop in

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Speaker 4: a way that you had to have broader resources in

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Speaker 4: a more permanent structure really to be able to not

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Speaker 4: serve us, but to serve the people that would join

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Speaker 4: the firm.

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Speaker 3: We needed to have a future for them.

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Speaker 4: So we brought in a third partner, Bill Price, who

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Speaker 4: was kind of our operating side of the business, And

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Speaker 4: we decided to name it not after ourselves, but a

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Speaker 4: name that was kind of low key and could be

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Speaker 4: what it was going to be beyond us. And I

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Speaker 4: think that decision to build a firm and the generosity

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Speaker 4: that that implied really.

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Speaker 3: Was part of David's legacy.

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Speaker 1: Were you sure it was going to work?

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Speaker 3: Never sure it was going to work?

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Speaker 4: We live in a world we call constructive paranoia, which

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Speaker 4: is you always have to be constructive, but at night

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Speaker 4: you have to make sure you're not making mistakes.

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Speaker 2: And did you think, like were there timing over those

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Speaker 2: thirty eight years?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've done, you know.

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Speaker 2: Tremendously successful deals, as you mentioned earlier, some deals that

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Speaker 2: didn't work.

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Speaker 1: Was there ever a moment you're like.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this isn't maybe this isn't the right thing, Like

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Speaker 2: how did how much doubt comes into it? And what's

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Speaker 2: Bondo's sort of what's his frame of mind in those moments?

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Speaker 4: You know, David, if things are going wrong, you want

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Speaker 4: David with you in the foxhol So I've never seen

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Speaker 4: him daunted or I never saw him daunted or down

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Speaker 4: by problem and you also begin to get perspective. Jason,

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Speaker 4: You've been around this industry for a while. We continuously

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Speaker 4: declared private equity dead in nineteen eighty nine, in nineteen

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Speaker 4: ninety seven, in two thousand and one, in two thousand

357
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Speaker 4: and seven, in twenty fifteen, were declaring it, you know,

358
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Speaker 4: dead today in some ways or diminished. But what you

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Speaker 4: learn is it's a very powerful, very powerful economic engine.

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Speaker 4: It's investing with a bigger toolbox, and so stay the course.

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Speaker 2: And what I find interesting about that that stay the

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Speaker 2: course idea is that as going back to this notion

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Speaker 2: of the industry institutionalizing, it goes public, you guys are

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Speaker 2: the last of the big firms to do that. Like

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Speaker 2: this contrarianism, like not only you know is there it

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Speaker 2: takes hold it as sort of a core principle. How

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Speaker 2: much was was David sort of driving that, Like what

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Speaker 2: would it bring him into that discussion?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Jason, you've written one of the best books on this,

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Speaker 4: and I hope you will continue to work on this

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Speaker 4: because the story of this industry and how it went

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Speaker 4: from a few people doing deals to something that touches

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Speaker 4: and probably employees ten percent of the economy today there's

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Speaker 4: more than forty five hundred private equity firms. We used

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Speaker 4: to all know each other in the industry.

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Speaker 3: That evolution.

377
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Speaker 4: Is one of the more interesting stories in business. I

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Speaker 4: went back a few years ago far threieth anniversion and

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Speaker 4: I looked at the growth of the industry over the

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Speaker 4: period TPG has been there. It's grown fifteen percent a

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Speaker 4: year compounded for thirty years.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't find another business.

383
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Speaker 4: Fourteen and a half percent was the growth of Chinese electronics,

384
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Speaker 4: So that growth has been extraordinary. I think what David's

385
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Speaker 4: role was was shaping the fact that it could be

386
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Speaker 4: a different set.

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Speaker 3: Of styles that it could grow.

388
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Speaker 4: He was also personally extraordinarily important in opening Asian private equity.

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Speaker 4: As you know, TPG was one of the first firms

390
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Speaker 4: to go to Asia in nineteen ninety four, and David

391
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Speaker 4: was instrumental in both driving that move and frankly building

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Speaker 4: the business throughout the region.

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Speaker 2: And so one of the things that I'm glad you

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Speaker 2: brought up Asia, because you know one of the.

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Speaker 1: I think it.

396
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Speaker 2: Feels like it is something that couldn't be true, but

397
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Speaker 2: I've heard enough people say that it must be that

398
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:30,919
Speaker 2: he would literally get on a plane to go have

399
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Speaker 2: lunch in Shanghai, like, he was very much a practitioner

400
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Speaker 2: of the art.

401
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Speaker 1: Of showing up.

402
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Speaker 2: Yeah, is that a fair assessment? And why do you

403
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Speaker 2: think that?

404
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Speaker 3: Well?

405
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Speaker 1: What was driving him to do that?

406
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Speaker 4: David always viewed the business, and I think we all

407
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 4: should is very personal. If you're going to solve problems,

408
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Speaker 4: it's so much easier to do it in person.

409
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Speaker 3: And he was so quick on his.

410
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Speaker 4: Feet that to actually get in the room with someone

411
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Speaker 4: was one of his greatest Secondly, he had always been

412
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Speaker 4: an internationalist.

413
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Speaker 3: He loved traveling.

414
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Speaker 4: In fact, after traveling incessantly for work, when he got

415
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Speaker 4: a week off, he would travel. So he on average

416
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Speaker 4: flu for a number of top years, one thousand hours.

417
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Speaker 3: I want you to do the math on that, A

418
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Speaker 3: thousand hours and one particular story.

419
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Speaker 4: I was talking to his assistant the other day who

420
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Speaker 4: was relating to me. In the middle of that binge

421
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Speaker 4: of travel, the budgeting people at TPG asked.

422
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Speaker 3: For next year's budget.

423
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Speaker 4: She gave him the hours, and they asked for the

424
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Speaker 4: hotel costs and she said there aren't hotels.

425
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Speaker 3: He said, it's only acts and they said.

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Speaker 4: I can't be x and they said there aren't hotels

427
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Speaker 4: because David used to fly overnight, get off the plane,

428
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Speaker 4: shower at the FBO, and go. He didn't use hotels

429
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Speaker 4: because that was the way he went and for him,

430
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 4: it was I think part hobby, part interests, but you know,

431
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 4: absolutely a tool for getting done what he could get done,

432
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Speaker 4: and frankly one of his superpowers.

433
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Speaker 2: So let's talk about his life outside of TPG because

434
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Speaker 2: it certainly informs it. It informs him as an investor,

435
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: all the things he's doing with wildlife conservation, rock and roll.

436
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: I mean, those two alone are rich for discussion. What

437
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 2: was it about those things that ended up sort of

438
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Speaker 2: informing him as a business person and as an investor.

439
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 4: David had things that appealed to him, that he loved,

440
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Speaker 4: and he was fiercely loyal to them.

441
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Speaker 3: Let me tell you one diet coke.

442
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Speaker 4: David drank more diet coke than anyone I've ever seen.

443
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Speaker 4: In fact, it was a problem when we bought Continental

444
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Speaker 4: because they had a contract with pepsi, oh boy, and

445
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 4: he would not drink diet pepsi. So literally, as we

446
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 4: went through airports, we would buy cans of diet coke

447
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 4: and take them onto the plane with us. Because he

448
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 4: wouldn't drink pepsi, and so he was passionate about He's

449
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 4: passionate about rock and roll. Well before TPG, he would

450
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 4: hold rock and roll parties and at annual meetings. When

451
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 4: we started the business, most other firms had Margaret Thatcher

452
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 4: and James Baker after dinner. We were the first firms

453
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: to have Jimmy Buffett and Elton John things that Dave

454
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 4: and I typically supported personally for these meetings.

455
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: And so he loved Dia Coke. He loved rock and roll,

456
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: and he really loved the wilderness of all sorts. He

457
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 3: loved hiking.

458
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 4: He went into the Himalayas many times in a Mustang

459
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 4: that others hadn't gone in. So if you look at

460
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 4: his interest, we never bought Coca Cola, but he did

461
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 4: support the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, he did

462
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 4: support the Wilderness Society, and he's been very active in

463
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: conservation activities around the world, often quietly at a scale

464
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 4: people don't understand, but from the Grand Canyon Trust to Mustang,

465
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 4: he's made a difference.

466
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: And I think it's fair to say I'm going to

467
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: make a leap here that you know you can.

468
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: You could tell me is wrong.

469
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: But I mean that sensibility makes its way into a

470
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: lot of the investment decisions you guys are making and

471
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: the lines of business that you go into, right, I mean,

472
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 2: you're running a climate fund it.

473
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 4: This point, there's it's no accident, yeah, that these things

474
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 4: play through. I think we were doing ESG before it

475
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 4: had a name in a variety of our investment memos.

476
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 4: We always talked about the effect things would have, and

477
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 4: we took on this question of how do you scale

478
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 4: impact investing?

479
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: It was a really interesting question.

480
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 4: We took it on with vigor and this idea of

481
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 4: defining climate not just as a problem but as an opportunity.

482
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 4: As we were talking about before, this is a theme

483
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 4: that has gone through David and through TPG for years.

484
00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: And so I mean from a personal perspective, how do

485
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 2: how does it shape you to work with one person

486
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: for as long as long as you did for that

487
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: person to be your partner.

488
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: You meet him as a very young man.

489
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: Sorry by making this too personal for you, but it's

490
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 2: like you meet him as a very young person. He

491
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 2: obviously shapes you in a way that almost no one

492
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: else could in your professional life. And I know you

493
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: must be reflecting on that a lot right now, and

494
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: maybe it's too soon to ask you this question, but like,

495
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: how do you how do you sort of take that

496
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: all in?

497
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 4: No, he had shaped my life in many ways. We

498
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 4: had a very interesting partnership for a few reasons. First

499
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 4: of all, the age difference were seventeen years different. I

500
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 4: started working for him, and we became equal control partners

501
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 4: when we build TPG, and so that process of becoming

502
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: partners we were colleagues for thirty eight years, partners for

503
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 4: thirty two.

504
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: Just doesn't happen that often.

505
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 4: It does happen in private equity, and in some ways,

506
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: one of the attributes of really strong private equity firms

507
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: is strong partnerships. The strong partnerships tend to land well

508
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 4: because I think private equity is not a one person sport.

509
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 4: It is a team sport, and great teams, as you know,

510
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 4: often have a partnership among their leading athletes in ways

511
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 4: that play out over periods of time. So for me,

512
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 4: it was a journey from a colleague to partner. I

513
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 4: was always learning something from David, and I think he

514
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: told me over the years he learned a few things

515
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 4: from me. So that kind of constant curiosity was important,

516
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 4: but we travel together on trips. We had lots of

517
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 4: mutual friends who were very different people, but that partnership

518
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 4: I think really resonated not only in the business world,

519
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 4: but in the personal world. He was an immensely, immensely

520
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 4: interesting person. No dinner, no flight was without fascinating conversations

521
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 4: and usual deep laughter, and that certainly shaped me, shaped

522
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: their firm, and really shaped so many in the industry

523
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 4: that they touched.

524
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just before we leave that, I mean, I'm

525
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: so interested in that because you know, there are a

526
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 2: lot of people, you know, watching this and listening to

527
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: it who will think about, you know, their own careers

528
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: and the choices that they make in terms of how

529
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: they choose their partners and how they create winning partnerships

530
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: and business relationships, and so I just I do wonder

531
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: even as you guys built like, how do you even

532
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 2: like divide responsibility? You know, how do you figure out

533
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: like you're good at this, you're good at that? I mean,

534
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: you're making it up as you go along.

535
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: Presumably, Yeah, we were making up for how many years?

536
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 4: I think it was always division of responsibility was often

537
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: was very clear, and it's because we had different skills

538
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 4: and similar values. It was kind of clear that David

539
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 4: loved to go to Singapore for lunch and I was

540
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: coaching my kid's soccer team, right and that division kind

541
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 4: of worked for both of us Franks, because someone had

542
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: to keep the firm growing and the other deals happening

543
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 4: if he was in Singapore. So I think it was

544
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 4: actually very natural and David was. Many people have partnered

545
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 4: with David in many ways, so we probably had the

546
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 4: longest continuous partnership. But he's been a great partner to

547
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 4: a lot of people. I think in life, if you

548
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 4: find great partners it's a very fortunate privilege. And even

549
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: if you look at the public investing in side, you know,

550
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 4: the Munger Buffet partnership went on for forty five years.

551
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 4: These partnerships can be very powerful in our particular business.

552
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: And I want to talk a little bit about his legacy,

553
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 2: and part of that, I'm going to bring it back

554
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: to an area I spent a lot of time is sports.

555
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 2: You know, we talked a little bit about the Kraken,

556
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: and I do think it's notable that that may be

557
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: one of aside from the firm that you guys have

558
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: built together, that may be one of his biggest legs.

559
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: He's in part because his daughter, Samantha Holloway is now

560
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: the control control ownder the Kraken. It is well known that,

561
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: you know, they would like to bring basketball back to

562
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: Seattle through the SuperSonics.

563
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: Talk to me.

564
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: About him getting into that.

565
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: I'd love to unpack that because it was this it

566
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: was this sort of tricky deal, but also something that

567
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: he was very emotionally invested in.

568
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 4: It felt like, yeah, it's something that he had been

569
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: thinking about for a long time and for a number

570
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 4: of years.

571
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: It was hard for us to invest.

572
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: In it because of our relationship with CIA, So David

573
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: had to do this separately from the firm and actually

574
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: be carved off from CIA to be involved in the Kraken.

575
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 4: And I loved how he brought the same problem solving,

576
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: just absolute brilliance and creativity to solving that problem.

577
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: So it wasn't just about one thing sports. There's a

578
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: lot of people who want to be sports owners.

579
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was about solving this problem for a city

580
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 4: he loved, in a place that he admired uh and

581
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: doing it in his own way. And so I think

582
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 4: uh TPG maybe the cornerstone of his investing legacy. But

583
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 4: I think the Kraken is certainly right up with it

584
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: as as something that will have a longstanding impact.

585
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: And presumably in part because you know, he brought his

586
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: daughter into it, I mean, with which.

587
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 3: I love it.

588
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: Sam is Sam is doing an awesome job. It's been

589
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 4: just brilliant to watch, uh, that evolution of her partnership

590
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 4: with her father at the Kraken, and even like, I

591
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: love the name, right, I remember when we were David

592
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 4: was naming it, you know, he was talking over options

593
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 4: with me and as soon as he said crack and

594
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: I knew he was going there.

595
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: It's just it's so bondo and.

596
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: A little bit contrarian. There's no other It's like that.

597
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: It wasn't going to be the Blue Sox, right, it

598
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 4: was going to be the Kracking.

599
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: And so what's been you know, I mean that it's

600
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: it's early days obviously in terms of you, you know,

601
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: kind of coming to grips with all this. I'm sure

602
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: you're hearing from lots of different people, like the what

603
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: are the messages that you're getting, what are the notes

604
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: you're you're hearing, the calls you're getting that may maybe

605
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: surprise you a little bit.

606
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 4: Actually, it doesn't surprise me because one thing that is

607
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 4: clear is that David has touched so many people over

608
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: the years in his inimitable style. But my phone has

609
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: been lighting up from all over the world from people

610
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 4: I haven't heard from in twenty years, people reaching out

611
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 4: to say how much David shaped his or her career,

612
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 4: from you know, the CEO of Goldman to the CEO

613
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 4: of JP Morgan to the top investment partnerships around the world,

614
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 4: top LP partnerships around the world, and the messages have

615
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 4: been not just about him as an investor or partner,

616
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: but him as a person. And I think that's one

617
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 4: of his legacies is not only did he do different

618
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 4: deals build a.

619
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: Different firm, but he almost gave license.

620
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: For different ways to interact in this industry in a

621
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 4: way that has opened up. He's always been interested in

622
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 4: people of all sorts. I mean, who else hitchhikes across

623
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 4: Africa for a year. Imagine who you meet and how

624
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 4: that goes. So his ability to connect with people and

625
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 4: welcome them into the industry from all nationalities, from all backgrounds,

626
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 4: is I think another contribution he made to the industry.

627
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: Well, as we wrap up, I've been wanting to ask

628
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: you this, which is, if you had to given all

629
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: these things, that all these inputs that you've got, all

630
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: this experience you got, if you had to distill him

631
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: down into one story that you could tell, and I'm

632
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: sure you will tell over the coming weeks and months

633
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: and years, what's the story?

634
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: What's the Bondo story?

635
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: Oh, there's too many. Uh, you know, I think there's

636
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: deal stories, and there's and there's personal stories.

637
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: On the deal stories. Uh.

638
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: You know when the night there was one other bidder

639
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 4: for Continental that sort of showed up and in the

640
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: night before the bids were happening. Uh, that bidder was

641
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 4: backed by Credit Lionnaise Credit and they were, you know,

642
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 4: French bank owned by the French government, and uh we had,

643
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: Uh the night before we made a deal with Air

644
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 4: France to join the Continental Frequent fire Mile coalition, but

645
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 4: only if Credit ly in A dropped out. So the

646
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 4: morning of the Continental bids, we walked in with our

647
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 4: bid and the other bidder couldn't show up because they

648
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 4: just had their financing pull.

649
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: So the the the chessboard of what was.

650
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: Going on, I think we would have won anyhow, But

651
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 4: the chessboard of what was going on was we were

652
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: playing at a different level than maybe was understood generally,

653
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: and his ability to be playing on a different board

654
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: than others was happened kind of over and over again.

655
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 4: But there's many very funny quips that I can't share.

656
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: But the other moment that sticks out to me personally

657
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 4: was at his birthday party, much written about when the

658
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 4: Rolling Stones played, which was kind of before people did

659
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 4: these private bands like this, And the thing I remember

660
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 4: is I stood in the back with David and he

661
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 4: was watching out the Stones, he was watching the crowd,

662
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: and he refused to have toasts at the party, and

663
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 4: it wasn't really.

664
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 3: About his birthday.

665
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 4: It was actually a gift from him to all the

666
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 4: people that he invited. And that sort of generosity misconstrued

667
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 4: a little bit outside.

668
00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 3: But that sort of.

669
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Speaker 4: Generosity, the very bondo, very not about him but about

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Speaker 4: an experience, was something I just saw over and over again.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to this conversation with Jim Colter,

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Speaker 2: the chairman and co founder of TPG, all about his

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Speaker 2: late partner David Bonderman. And if you're interested in these

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Speaker 2: types of conversations, check out my show The Deal with

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Speaker 2: Alex Rodriguez. I'm Jason Kelly, and this is Bloomberg