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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Appo, car Play and then Roudoto with

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Now forty thousand days. It's kind of amazing see this happened, Kaylee.

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Speaker 2: As we were discussing earlier, is there a tweet or

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Speaker 2: a post from the White House on this yet? Because

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump would have been playing this up big time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it would probably resonate in the polls. I only

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Speaker 2: asked that because the president has struggled to connect the

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Speaker 2: dots on all things economy, and I realized they're two

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Speaker 2: different things. What do you have Biden?

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Speaker 3: Harris HQX accounts Yes, thirteen minutes ago put out a

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Speaker 3: new ad about Trump in twenty twenty, saying the stock

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Speaker 3: market would collapse if Joe Biden won, noting that Dow

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Speaker 3: did just hit forty thousand, the highest level ever recorded

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Speaker 3: in history.

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Speaker 2: So they heard it took us at it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean we've been on the air for a little bit here.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad, I'm Glad to always know that they're listening.

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Speaker 2: Glad that you're with us as well on Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 2: and radio. As we come off a couple of brutal

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Speaker 2: days of testimony, Day two in the Senate today wrapping

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Speaker 2: up Kayley for the head of the FDIC. And of

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Speaker 2: course this has everything to do with a report that

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Speaker 2: was submitted last week, an independent report highlighting a toxic

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Speaker 2: workplace culture at the agency, and there are resounding calls

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Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill for mister Gruenberg's resignation. We heard from

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Speaker 2: him a bit earlier in the broadcast. Bloomberg News spoke

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Speaker 2: with Senator Catherine Cortez Mast of Nevada about her take

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Speaker 2: on this year's what she told us earlier on Capitol Hill.

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Speaker 4: It addresses the workplace culture and the structure when it

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Speaker 4: comes to protecting these employees. And so those recommendations, to me,

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Speaker 4: that's the action items that they need to be taking,

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Speaker 4: and they need to be implementing them, every single one

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Speaker 4: of them, not questioning them like the previous report under

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Speaker 4: the previous year, question some of the recommendations that were

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Speaker 4: made and challenge them. That should not happen in this case.

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Speaker 4: They should be saying yes to every single recommendation and

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Speaker 4: implement it. To me, those are part of the action

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Speaker 4: imans those federal employees need to.

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Speaker 3: See Democratic Senator Catherine Cortes Masto on Capitol Hill earlier,

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Speaker 3: and we go there now live where we're joined, I'm

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Speaker 3: pleased to say by Republican Senator Jony Ernst of Iowa,

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Speaker 3: who also has introduced legislation that relates to the issues

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Speaker 3: at the FDIC. Senator, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 3: us here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. In the face

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Speaker 3: of the reports like the one we have gotten out

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Speaker 3: of the FDICE, you, together with a Democratic colleague, Kirsten Gillibrand,

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Speaker 3: have introduced the No Taxpayer Funded Pensions for Sex Criminals Act. Essentially,

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Speaker 3: this legislation would prohibit sex criminals from collecting taxpayer funded pensions.

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Speaker 3: My question, Senator, is the chairman has not been accused

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Speaker 3: actually of any crimes, just perhaps having a role in

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Speaker 3: allowing this kind of environment to continue at the FDIC,

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Speaker 3: and there's been a lot of calls for his resignation.

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Speaker 3: Does he deserve to collect a pension?

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Speaker 5: Well, and no, he has not perpetrated any of the

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Speaker 5: acts that are covered by this legislation. So two separate issues.

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Speaker 5: One is he is a very poor leader. He enabled

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Speaker 5: this type of culture to occur at the FDIC, So

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Speaker 5: I'm actually calling on him to either resign or President

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden should fire him. But second is the act

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Speaker 5: that I have drawn up with my colleague, Senator Kirsten

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Speaker 5: Jillibrand of New York that would stop taxpayer funded pensions

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Speaker 5: going to those that are convicted of sexual harassment. So

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Speaker 5: two separate items, but man, they come together in a

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Speaker 5: exus at the FDIC because we have seen those that

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Speaker 5: exist within the FDIC pushing sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact,

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Speaker 5: elicit photos texted to females within the FDICE. So I

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Speaker 5: think there is a lot to uncover here. We saw

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Speaker 5: that independent report over three hundred and forty pages of horrible, horrible,

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Speaker 5: fret boy type behavior happening at the FDIC.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been a lot of references. Senator, it's good

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Speaker 2: to see you again. We haven't caught up since we

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Speaker 2: were in Iowa. A lot of talk around Washington about

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Speaker 2: locker room talking, locker room behavior, and it was just

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Speaker 2: in May of last year that a jury found Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump libel for sexual abuse if your bill became law,

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Speaker 2: would that remove his pension?

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Speaker 5: Well, that's quite possible. But what we're focused on is

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Speaker 5: those that are out there, those that have been convicted

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Speaker 5: of that, and then yes, they would have their pension

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Speaker 5: stripped away. It's a behavior that has to stop. So

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Speaker 5: we see this in the FDICE. We see these federal

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Speaker 5: employees that are really suffering. And again I want to

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Speaker 5: go back to the FDIC chairman and how he allowed

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Speaker 5: this behavior to continue. Complaints were made to the fdi CE,

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Speaker 5: complaints that he either knew about or just simply dismissed.

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Speaker 5: He himself had bad behavior, yelling at employees, throwing objects,

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Speaker 5: all very very poor exhibits of leadership or lack thereof,

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Speaker 5: but again, bad behavior. We need to make sure that

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Speaker 5: those that are in leadership positions in the federal government,

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Speaker 5: no one understand that they can't take advantage of their employees.

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Speaker 5: If they are convicted, they will lose their taxpayer funded pensions.

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Speaker 5: End of story.

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Speaker 3: Well, Senator, if I could just go back to the

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Speaker 3: fact that you just said, it's quite possible if this

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Speaker 3: were to become law, that Donald Trump could not continue

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Speaker 3: to collect a federal pension. He wouldn't be eligible for that,

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Speaker 3: but still should be seen as qualified to collect a

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Speaker 3: presidential salary back in the Oval Office come January of

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Speaker 3: next year.

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Speaker 5: Different issues because this is an elected position. If people

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Speaker 5: want him to be the president of the United States,

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Speaker 5: and I fully believe that he will be the President

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Speaker 5: of the United States, then we will see him serving again.

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Speaker 5: A little different issue, a little different take on it.

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Speaker 5: These are people that are hired by the federal government

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Speaker 5: working in an environment where they are assaulting other employees

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Speaker 5: of the federal government. It is up to the federal

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Speaker 5: government to protect those employees. One way we do that

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Speaker 5: and we make sure that this behavior doesn't happen is

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Speaker 5: by letting them know upfront if you are convicted of

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Speaker 5: these crimes, you will be stripped of that pension.

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Speaker 2: We're spending time with Senator Jony Ernst on Balance of Power.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington. I want

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Speaker 2: to ask you about a couple of other issues. Well

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Speaker 2: we have you here, Senator, including the idea of raising

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Speaker 2: tariffs on China. This is something that Joe Biden chose

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Speaker 2: to do this week while maintaining the Trump tariffs on

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Speaker 2: China and It's something that Bloomberg discussed with Jamie Diamond.

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Speaker 2: Of course, from JP Morgan Chase. Let's listen to what

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Speaker 2: he said.

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Speaker 6: I think it's the right thing for America to fully

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Speaker 6: and deeply engage with China. You know, competitively. You know

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Speaker 6: every nation is going to do. It's in their own

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Speaker 6: interest in national security, social America. We should define that

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Speaker 6: fairly improperly. If it's unfair trade, you know, negotiate that

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Speaker 6: or do whatever you need to do. But the engagement

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Speaker 6: is the right thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Engagement is the right thing to do. Senator, how do

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Speaker 2: you have both?

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Speaker 5: It's really difficult. But we have seen President Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: do the tariffs. He focused very heavily on correcting the

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Speaker 5: actions for my Iowa farmers, and I felt that he

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Speaker 5: was very strong on that. We see now President Joe

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Speaker 5: Biden doing this and what he is trying to do.

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Speaker 5: He's focusing more on electric vehicles and chips and not

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Speaker 5: focusing necessarily so much on my farmers in Iowa. But

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Speaker 5: certainly when it comes to China, we have to be

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Speaker 5: very cautious. We want to disengage where we can on

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Speaker 5: items of national security importance, whether that's pharma, pharmaceuticals or

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Speaker 5: items that go into our defense industry. I think it's

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Speaker 5: extremely important, but we also need to make sure that

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Speaker 5: we're looking out for our interests here in the United

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Speaker 5: States and we continue to develop domestic manufacturing. We need

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Speaker 5: to quit leaning on China. They are bad, bad trade partners,

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Speaker 5: and we have seen this with I'll give an example

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Speaker 5: of my Iowa farmers. China will negotiate on some soybeans

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Speaker 5: coming from the state of Iowa. Those soybeans are shipped

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Speaker 5: by our Iowa farmers. They're headache over the Pacific Ocean.

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Speaker 5: China will cancel the order, then renegotiate for a lower

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Speaker 5: price on soybeans or whatever other commodity it might be,

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Speaker 5: and the Iowa farmers are stuck with it. This is

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Speaker 5: where President Trump really stood up and did the right

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Speaker 5: thing by the Iowa farmers correcting that action with those tariffs.

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Speaker 5: So we're going to see more of this. We're going

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Speaker 5: to see a lot about this talked about before we

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Speaker 5: go into the election cycle. I wish that we would

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Speaker 5: see more engagement pushing back on China, whether it's President Trump,

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Speaker 5: whether it is President Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: Well, Senator, as you talk about the farmers in your

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Speaker 3: state of Iowa. Are you not concerned that if this

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Speaker 3: is pushed too far, these tariffs go too far, that

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Speaker 3: they could be called fall victim to retaliation from China.

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Speaker 5: Yes, this is one thing that was brought up again

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Speaker 5: when President Trump was in the Oval Office. I had

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Speaker 5: an Iowa farmer that actually laid it out and he said,

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Speaker 5: you know, he slapped his hand on the table and

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Speaker 5: he said, I know this is going to hurt for

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Speaker 5: a while, but he said, I am so thankful for

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Speaker 5: President Donald Trump. He's actually stay landing up for American farmers.

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Speaker 5: He is correcting this action. So while the pain may

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Speaker 5: be short term, we are going to find other outlets

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Speaker 5: for corns, for soybeans, for pork, for beef, for poultry.

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Speaker 5: We are going to find those other outlets America can produce.

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Speaker 5: China needs it more than America needs China consuming it.

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Speaker 2: Senator, I'm getting the hook here, but I just have

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Speaker 2: to ask you quickly in our last couple of seconds.

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Speaker 2: Are we going to get a new farm bill this

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Speaker 2: year you keep referring to my farmers, or will they

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Speaker 2: extend the one in place?

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Speaker 5: Oh Joe, we are really struggling with the farm bill

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Speaker 5: this year, and it is a one and a half

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Speaker 5: trillion dollar price tag in the United States Senate, but

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Speaker 5: only about fourteen to fifteen percent of that goes to

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Speaker 5: farm programs. We need to rename the bill. We're not

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Speaker 5: going to pass it this year. We'll take another shot

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Speaker 5: early next year. We'll have to extend the twenty eighteen

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Speaker 5: farm Bill. It's a disappointment for sure. It's a discipline lease.

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Speaker 2: Come back and talk to us about this. It's important

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Speaker 2: to our listeners and viewers, just like it is to you,

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Speaker 2: Senator Jony Ernst. We thank you for the time today.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken

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Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

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Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 3: Joe, it's pretty remarkable to see another great day if

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Speaker 3: you're long equay markets. So you got forty thousand on

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Speaker 3: the Dow, We're north of fifty three hundred on the

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Speaker 3: S and P five hundred. Stocks are at record highs,

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Speaker 3: and yet continually the current incumbent administration does not get

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Speaker 3: credit for anything really going well in the economy. It's

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Speaker 3: one of his biggest headaches. But we know it's just

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Speaker 3: one headache on a very long list.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's true, big thumbs down on the economy and

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Speaker 2: just about every pole you see. Rick Davis said it earlier, Kaylee,

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Speaker 2: if you had predicted forty thousand to coincide with this administration,

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Speaker 2: people might have laughed at you in the throes of

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Speaker 2: COVID where we were when he took office. And if

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Speaker 2: this were Donald Trump, he'd probably be at the New

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Speaker 2: York Stock Exchange calling this his own. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: No hats today, by the way, kind of a bummer.

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Speaker 2: I still have my ten thousand hats somewhere. You're alluding

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Speaker 2: to other issues, though, and Israel is one of them.

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Speaker 2: We've seen this take form in a lot of different

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Speaker 2: ways on the campaign trail. But what's actually happening in

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Speaker 2: Israel right now as we anticipate this vote today to

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Speaker 2: compel the administration to provide weaponry is less to do

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Speaker 2: with what's happening in Gaza now than it is what

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Speaker 2: happens after the war is complete.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, whenever that after ultimately is because, of course we're

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Speaker 3: still not anywhere in sight of an actual completion to

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Speaker 3: this current conflict between Israel and Hamas. But we know

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Speaker 3: what the US has been pushing for is a two

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Speaker 3: state solution. That is not something that the Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: of Benjamin net Yahoo, seems quite open to at this point.

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't seem that everyone in the Israeli government

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Speaker 3: has the same ideas on this, and you're starting to

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Speaker 3: see that rift born out in public.

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Speaker 2: Yes, very much so. Ian Marlow is reporting on it

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Speaker 2: for a Bloomberg senior reporter covering diplomacy and geopolitics, joins

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Speaker 2: us at the table here on a post war Gaza.

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Speaker 2: Ian is Benjamin Nettnah, who becoming more isolated on this with.

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Speaker 7: Time, Yeah, I think so. I mean I think he's

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Speaker 7: stood alone for some time. Secretary Blincoln, who I've traveled

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Speaker 7: with around the region several times, has tried to corral

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Speaker 7: sort of Arab partners in the region to get some

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Speaker 7: sort of grand bargain to bring to Israel. Each time

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Speaker 7: we go to the region, and each time we end

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Speaker 7: up in Israel at the end of these trips, it

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Speaker 7: seems like it just falls on deaf years.

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Speaker 2: Again, the.

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Speaker 7: Day After plan is just not the priority for the

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Speaker 7: Israeli government at the moment. For Netna who in particular,

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Speaker 7: I mean, he's focused on destroying Hamas, on getting supposedly,

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Speaker 7: you know, the hostages out as part of their deal.

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Speaker 7: But anything that comes after that is just at the moment,

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Speaker 7: and I think with the conflict dragging on as long

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Speaker 7: as it has seven months now, there's a lot of

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Speaker 7: impatience to see exactly what the reality is going to

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Speaker 7: be like when we get to the other side of

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Speaker 7: the conflict.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess my question Ian is We've had a

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Speaker 3: lot of conversations with people like yourself, with others who

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Speaker 3: are experts in the Middle East and Israel specifically, who

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Speaker 3: have suggested that Benjamin and yah who has every incentive

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Speaker 3: to keep this drawn out in order to preserve his

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Speaker 3: own position of power. So I wonder if we do

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Speaker 3: get to the point where we're talking about an after

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Speaker 3: whether or not he's actually going to be relevant to

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Speaker 3: that equation, Because if we reach the after, is he

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Speaker 3: still going to be in power.

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Speaker 7: He's very relevant to the equation. The question is whether

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Speaker 7: he needs to be removed from power for that day

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Speaker 7: After plan that the US has to actually unfold the

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Speaker 7: way the US wants. And I think whenever US officials

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Speaker 7: go to Israel, they go to meet with the war Cabinet,

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Speaker 7: and then they meet individually with different members of the

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Speaker 7: war cabinet, and I think I think that's a bit

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Speaker 7: of a deliberate attempt because a lot of the people

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Speaker 7: in that war cabinet want to be Prime minister the

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Speaker 7: day Netnah who is no longer the prime minister, and so,

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Speaker 7: and that's a reality that he faces. And BB also

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Speaker 7: faces the fact that his coalition is very ramshackle, it's

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Speaker 7: a very it's the most right wing government in Israeli history.

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Speaker 7: There are people well to the right of Netanyahu himself

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Speaker 7: who say, you know, if you do you know, if

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Speaker 7: you agree to certain things in post war Gaza, like

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Speaker 7: a two state solution, we are going to collapse your government.

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Speaker 7: And on the other side, on the left, he's actually

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Speaker 7: facing a little bit of a rising discontent there too,

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Speaker 7: because in the wake of October seventh, there were all

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Speaker 7: of the protests about Netanyahu and the judicial reform that

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Speaker 7: he had tried to push through ended and now there's

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Speaker 7: kind of vague talk now of potentially having a general strike,

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Speaker 7: pushing the government to get a ceasefire deal, and other things.

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Speaker 7: So he's being squeezed from both ends here, and I

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Speaker 7: think you're right. I think a lot of people I

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Speaker 7: speak to say, you know, what the US wants won't

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Speaker 7: happen with Netnahu in charge. And also this, you know,

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Speaker 7: the day the war ends, Net Yea who is out,

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Speaker 7: so he has every incentive to kind of string this out.

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Speaker 2: So with all this noise, are you hearing that any

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Speaker 2: other members of his war cabinet, you've Gallant or otherwise

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Speaker 2: are back channeling with the White House to their own benefit.

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Speaker 7: I think anytime one of them shows up in Washington,

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Speaker 7: those that sort of impression gets around, and it's it's

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Speaker 7: hard to avoid. And now, you know, with Gallant coming

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Speaker 7: out and others supporting him, you know, directly criticizing Yaho

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Speaker 7: and his policies, it looks like to some extent that

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Speaker 7: the starter pistol has won to be fired.

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Speaker 3: All right, it's great stuff. Ian Marlow, as always who

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Speaker 3: reports on diplomacy for US here at Bloomberg, thank you

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Speaker 3: so much. And it's so interesting, Joe to consider that

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Speaker 3: not only are there international pressures on BB Netnyahuo, including

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Speaker 3: President Biden being more and more outspoken in his pleasure

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Speaker 3: with the Israeli government's decisions now but facing a lot

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Speaker 3: of internal pressures.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, it's really this is an important moment. I

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Speaker 2: feel like we're going to look back at this period

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Speaker 2: of time in the middle of May as an inflection

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Speaker 2: point in this process. I figure those covering the Trump

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Speaker 2: trial probably feel the same way. Actually, Michael Cohens back

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Speaker 2: on cross examination June Grosso a Bloomberg Law is reporting

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Speaker 2: that the defense probably will not let go of the

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Speaker 2: rains here before the weekend because they want the jury

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Speaker 2: to stay focused on their case that they can probably

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Speaker 2: wrap up next week. This thing is.

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Speaker 3: Moving, yeah, keeping in mind there is no court tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: It's Baron Trump's high school graduation, so there will be

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Speaker 3: a day off, and then we're pretty quickly coming up

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Speaker 3: on the Memorial Day holiday at the end of next week.

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Speaker 3: So I do wonder how logistically all of this is

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Speaker 3: going to work out. But of course they have to

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Speaker 3: actually finish witness testimony and then do their closing arguments

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Speaker 3: before we can get to the end of things. And

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Speaker 3: I just wonder what we're making of cross examination day too,

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Speaker 3: or at least what Robert Worder is making of it.

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Speaker 3: He is a criminal and constitutional law attorney. Welcome back, sir,

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Speaker 3: to Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. The

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Speaker 3: defense is spending a lot of time in this cross

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Speaker 3: examination trying to get Michael Cohen to admit that he

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Speaker 3: is lied under oath. In times past, he's been found

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Speaker 3: guilty of perjury, he's spent time in prison. They're essentially

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Speaker 3: trying to prove that he is willing to lie under oath.

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Speaker 3: So why would the jury believe, based on this testimony

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Speaker 3: that he's not doing so?

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Speaker 8: Again, well, because he's in a good position to give

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Speaker 8: the information which the prosecution is built up to, and

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Speaker 8: his statements are corroborated. You know, I've said before it

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Speaker 8: doesn't matter if the jury dislikes Michael Cohen as a person.

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Speaker 8: The issue is going to be whether they're going to

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Speaker 8: believe what he says about Donald Trump and this situation

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Speaker 8: that is the cross examination of him. However, the defense

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Speaker 8: began with a whole different tact which I thought was

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Speaker 8: really ill advised, where they started attacking him saying basically,

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Speaker 8: you hate Donald Trump, and so the logical inferences you

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Speaker 8: hate there, Donald Trump air go, You're going to lie

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Speaker 8: to do anything to get him convicted. The trouble is,

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Speaker 8: mister Cohen has a very good response, which is, yeah,

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Speaker 8: I don't like Donald Trump. Where I hate don Trump

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Speaker 8: because Donald Trump has done terrible things, and I've gone

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Speaker 8: along with it. And now that I've had my redemption

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Speaker 8: in my little epiphany, I've seen the light and now

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Speaker 8: I'm not supporting him anywhere anymore.

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Speaker 9: And by the way, when I was lying before, it

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Speaker 9: was only on his behalf. That's why I'm here today.

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Speaker 8: So overall, I don't think it works out all that

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Speaker 8: terribly well for the defense. I have been in many

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Speaker 8: trials where the government or the state has given immunity

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Speaker 8: to a certain defendant to testify against the others. And

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Speaker 8: the person might be a terrible person that Jerry hates

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Speaker 8: it, it doesn't mean they're not going to believe what they say.

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Speaker 8: Given the context of the cakes.

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Speaker 2: Robert, I wonder if raising your voice, bringing emotion as

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Speaker 2: a defense attorney is a strategy. And I ask you

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Speaker 2: that because Todd blanche in hot today. He's yelling at

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Speaker 2: Michael Cohen, trying to get Cohen to yell back at him,

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Speaker 2: and they had an important exchange here, Blanche highlighting this

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Speaker 2: is the first time Michael Cohen is testified to having

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Speaker 2: had specific telephone call, or at least one call, with

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump to discuss paying off Stormy Daniels. Yes, I

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Speaker 2: believe I was telling the truth, Cohen said, what's the

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Speaker 2: defense trying to do here?

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Speaker 8: Well, I don't think the defense is doing a particularly

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Speaker 8: good job of winning the case with the jury. I

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Speaker 8: think what the defense is trying to do there is

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Speaker 8: make their client happy. And I think what they're doing

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Speaker 8: is fulfilling their client's bigger goals. And I'm going to

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Speaker 8: take kind of a unique tack on this that I

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Speaker 8: haven't heard a lot of people talk about. I don't

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Speaker 8: think for Donald Trump what happens in the courtroom's all

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Speaker 8: that terribly important. What's important for him is what's happening

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Speaker 8: outside of the court and his ability to spin what's

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Speaker 8: going on in the courtroom as his political strategy dictates.

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Speaker 9: Look, he gets up.

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Speaker 8: After every court day and he complains that I should

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Speaker 8: be campaigning. Well, if he's out campaigning, he's out talking

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Speaker 8: to maybe a couple hundred people at a rally, maybe

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Speaker 8: a few thousand, right, But he gets to talk to

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Speaker 8: five million or more people every time he walks out

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Speaker 8: of that courthouse and talks of free media coverage, and

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Speaker 8: his themes are the same. So, for instance, with Michael Cohen,

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Speaker 8: he can walk up and he always talked about Trump

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Speaker 8: arrangement syndrome. Well, if you think about that, what that

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Speaker 8: is saying is those people are crazy because they dislike me,

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Speaker 8: ignoring the fact that those people dislike him because of

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Speaker 8: what he does.

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Speaker 9: So if your carouse.

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Speaker 8: Examination of Michael Cohen is oh, you just hate Donald Trump,

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Speaker 8: Donald Trump comes out and plays the same theme, and

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Speaker 8: he ties it into this great conspiracy against him, and

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Speaker 8: he's their savior of all the people out in TV land.

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Speaker 8: That's what's important. Donald Trump and his lawyers are accommodating

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Speaker 8: this in their performance in the courtroom, and I don't

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Speaker 8: think it plays well at all with the jury. But

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Speaker 8: Trump has already decided it doesn't matter if he loses

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Speaker 8: that trial because by the time he gets sentenced, by

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Speaker 8: the time appeals happened, he thinks he's going to be

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Speaker 8: president of the United States. He's never going to serve

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Speaker 8: a day in jail. I think that's Trump's overall goal,

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Speaker 8: which is why he closes his eyes during most of

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Speaker 8: the trial, whether he's sleeping or not.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So that's the considerations for the case involving the

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Speaker 3: former president. I also want to ask you about something

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Speaker 3: involving the current president, Robert as we've had Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: today exerting executive privilege over recordings from the investigation into

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Speaker 3: his handling of classified documents, his conversation with the special

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Speaker 3: counsel Robert Herr, Merrit G. Merrick Garland. The Attorney General

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Speaker 3: is about to be held in contempt of Congress over this,

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Speaker 3: and we've seen executive privilege now basically use to make

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Speaker 3: sure that this does not in fact get in the

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Speaker 3: hands of the lawmakers who are asking for it. We

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Speaker 3: have heard a great deal upset on the Republican side

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Speaker 3: about this, including from the House Speaker Mike Johnson. Just

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Speaker 3: take a listen to what he had to say earlier.

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Speaker 10: The President is using all of his power to suppress

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Speaker 10: their release, and rather than defend our closest ally at war,

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Speaker 10: President Biden is using his authority to defend himself politically.

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Speaker 3: So arguably, Robert, he is using authority that is his

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Speaker 3: to use should he so choose, but is he setting

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Speaker 3: a dangerous precedent here by not releasing these tapes.

436
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 9: No, not really.

437
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 8: Look, first of all, executive privilege belongs to the office.

438
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 8: It doesn't belong to Joe Biden. So when all of

439
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,959
Speaker 8: Donald Trump and his kind of entourage and his menions

440
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 8: saying oh I have executive privilege, their role because only

441
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 8: the current holder of the office has that privilege.

442
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 9: The next person who holds that office could decide to

443
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 9: release whatever.

444
00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 8: They want because the privilege goes with the office. Now,

445
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 8: I think there's a good argument to be made. List says, Look,

446
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 8: you already got the transcripts of what happened here, and

447
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 8: you've got a gratuitous statement from Robert Hurr about oh,

448
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 8: you know, he's old, he doesn't remember, which had nothing

449
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 8: to do with his findings. Actually, her findings were quite

450
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 8: beneficial to President Biden. It draw the distinction between the

451
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 8: two cases, President Biden's case and Donald Trump's case in

452
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 8: terms of retaining a document documents, they're very, very different.

453
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 8: But then he put in that gratuitous statement, which was

454
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 8: simply to give fodder for this argument in the narrative

455
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 8: that Joe Biden.

456
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 9: Is not competent to old etc.

457
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 8: Etca utterly useless in terms of what the report was

458
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 8: supposed to do in the prosecutorial evaluation. So you know,

459
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 8: that's kind of what the privilege is. This president does

460
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 8: have it. I assume he decides that there's no value

461
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 8: for the American people to have this come out, certainly

462
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 8: not of value to him, And of course Speaker Johnson

463
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 8: then tries to tie that in has something to do

464
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 8: with Israel.

465
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 9: At the end, I assume by his statement that you know, President.

466
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 8: Biden should be more worried about our allies versus this

467
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 8: that's a total non second has nothing to do with

468
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 8: either one.

469
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 9: But that's kind of the political game I see going

470
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 9: on there.

471
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: He straddles criminal and constitutional law, which is why he's

472
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 2: an important voice for us here. Robert macwurdur, we thank

473
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: you for being with us, sir, as always on balance

474
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: of power. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines and Washington

475
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: the word on this, by the way, transcript versus tape

476
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: from Jim Jordan. Of course, Judiciary Chair changes in voice

477
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: inflection and emphasis are what you need that you do

478
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 2: not get in a transcript. But he probably will never

479
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: hear that tape.

480
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's why people watch us on TV

481
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: and listen to us on radio, don't just read us.

482
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: So it's true. Actually, yeah, I hear. This is a

483
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: good listen still even though we're on camera. We'll have

484
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: more from our panel coming up next. This is Bloomberg.

485
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

486
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on EML car Play

487
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: and then, oh, I don't know where the Bloomberg Business app.

488
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts A watch

489
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

490
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 3: We know the decisions out of Washington often do have

491
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: the ability to impact financial markets, certain stocks, certain ETFs,

492
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: like say rescheduling marijuana. I noticed today MJ up nearly

493
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: six percent after just moments ago. President Biden takes to X.

494
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: Too many lives have been upended by our failed approach

495
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 3: to marijuana. So today the Justice Department is taking the

496
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: next step to reclassify marijuana from a Schedule one to

497
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: a Schedule three drug under federal law. It's happening, Joe.

498
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 2: This is a big deal. It is actually happening. We've

499
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: been talking about this for a very long time, and

500
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 2: for the President to do a direct to video direct

501
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: to cameras statement on this says a lot about the

502
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 2: demographics he's trying to appeal to here, i e. Young people.

503
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 2: MSOs is the other ETF that's specific to US cannabis

504
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: companies impacted by this. That's up over eight percent right now.

505
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: As our buddy Nathan Deane likes to say at Bloomberg Intelligence,

506
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: the pot stocks have hot sauce on them and they

507
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: go crazy in both directions. So let's see if this holds.

508
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess we will. But to your point, it's

509
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: not a coincidence in all likelihood, Shoe that this is

510
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 3: happening in the middle of an election cycle.

511
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: That's right, not to mention the fact that we're actually

512
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: waiting for news on safe banking. There has been an

513
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: effort to get this done, largely by Democrats, but some

514
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: Republicans are on board as well. Let's assemble our panel

515
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: to get their take on this and all the other

516
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: stories that we're covering today. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzo

517
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: join us Bloomberg Politics contributors here on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

518
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: We didn't see this in common, guys, but here we are. Genie,

519
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 2: it's just another you can talk about for giving student

520
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 2: loan debt or some of the other ways that Joe

521
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: Biden has tried to appeal to younger voters. In this case,

522
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: does it work and with whom?

523
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 11: You know? I don't see this as changing the trajectory

524
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 11: of the election. You know, marijuana legalization is something to

525
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 11: your point, young people support in overwhelming numbers, and they

526
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 11: long have that said, it doesn't usually rank at the

527
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 11: top of their list. Still at the top of their

528
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 11: list is the economy. So I think this is important.

529
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 11: As you guys are just talking about what this.

530
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: Has to do with promises kept, doesn't it Genie promise

531
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: is kept on the campaign in twenty twenty.

532
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 11: It does have to do with that. I'm still not

533
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 11: convinced it will change support. I think much more important

534
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 11: is going to be his taking on economic issues that

535
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 11: matter to these young people, and they are enormous. So

536
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 11: I think this is a positive step, and you're right

537
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 11: it does meet a campaign promise, although I just really

538
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 11: still don't see it as going all the way to

539
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 11: change votes, if you.

540
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: Will, well fair enough, Obviously, young people are one demographic

541
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: in which President Biden is seeing turn away from him.

542
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 3: Rick Another is black voters, and he is arguably trying

543
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: to take some corrective measure in that regard as well.

544
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: This week, as he to day is meeting with family

545
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: members in the Brown Bird Versus Board of Education case.

546
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: He'll be doing another event here in DC at the

547
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: African American History Museum later this week. He's giving the

548
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 3: commencement address at Morehouse this weekend. Does any of that

549
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: go far enough? How much work does he still have

550
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: to do?

551
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

552
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 12: Look, I think that we heard from doctor King this

553
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 12: week that you got to walk the walk, you got

554
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 12: to be there all the time. It's not just an

555
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 12: election your issue. I think she's exactly right. I think

556
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 12: I can't imagine anybody walking the walk more than Joe

557
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 12: Biden has. But again, I mean I have to echo

558
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 12: what Genie just said. I mean, this is all about

559
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 12: economic situation at young black especially urban males, find themselves

560
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 12: in and it's not good. And they're blaming the Biden administration. Right,

561
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 12: they didn't have as many pressures on them economically during

562
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 12: the Trump administration. They had other cultural challenges that exacerbated

563
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 12: themselves in Trump administration. But for whatever reason, those seem

564
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 12: to have you know, fallen by the wayside, and now

565
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 12: it's a battle with with Joe Biden over the economic

566
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 12: well being of the black community. And these are core

567
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 12: Democratic voters. So if if he loses them, uh, he's

568
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 12: really got a problem with with with his base. It's

569
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 12: not just swing voters anymore. And and I would say

570
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 12: I don't think the cannabis issue plays out really very much.

571
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 12: I consider it a feel good issue, right And in other words,

572
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 12: it fulfills a promise, you know, it does what you

573
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 12: need to do to sort of get over it. But

574
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 12: there are very few young voters, very few of them voters,

575
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 12: very few voters who you know are in the Biden

576
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 12: coalition who are going to vote for Donald Trump unless

577
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 12: he you know, uh legalizes pot.

578
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: Right.

579
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 12: That's just that's just not a voter that exists in

580
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 12: any poll I've ever seen. So the challenge with black voters.

581
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 12: This week, he's showing some leg on it. But the

582
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 12: question is can he meet that that that challenge by

583
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 12: being able to at least articulate a better economic opportunity

584
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 12: for that community in the next four years? And again,

585
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 12: where's the plan for the next four years? Economically? All

586
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 12: we hear about is getting past tomorrow.

587
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of a feel good issue, how about a

588
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: presidential pardon, not for those convicted of smoking marijuana, but

589
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump. Mitt Rodney, of course, the former standard

590
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: bearer of the Republican Party, thinks that's exactly what Joe

591
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: Biden should do and should have already done. He talked

592
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: about it in an interview. Let's listen.

593
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 13: I think President Biden made an enormous error. He should

594
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 13: have fought like crazy to keep this prosecution from going forward.

595
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 13: It was a win win for Donald Trump. Had I

596
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 13: been President Biden when the Justice Department brought an indictment,

597
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 13: so I would have immediately pardoned him. I had to

598
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 13: pardon President Trump.

599
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: That was in an interview with MSNBC. Genie. What do

600
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: you think about this? I'm pretty sure Joe Biden was

601
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: not about to pardon Donald Trump. What would the reaction be?

602
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 11: You know, I'm baffled by this for several reasons, but

603
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 11: let's just start with one, which is the fact that

604
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 11: while a curdin can reach to the federal cases, those

605
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 11: federal cases are not going forward apparently in all likelihood

606
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 11: before the campaign, I mean for the election. Rather, the

607
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 11: only one that has is the state case. And of

608
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 11: course Joe Biden has no say in what the state

609
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 11: of New York does or the state of Georgia. So

610
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 11: I'm not quite clear on what Romney's getting there. What

611
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 11: I do agree with him on is the fact that

612
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 11: Democrats have to fight Donald Trump at the ballot box

613
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 11: and not rely on the courts. That said, there's no

614
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 11: evidence that Joe Biden has been and parcel of this

615
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 11: prosecution of Donald Trump, So I don't know how he

616
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 11: stops it other than getting involved, which no president should do.

617
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 3: But one of the other things that Senator Romney said

618
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 3: Rick is that this is a win win for Donald Trump.

619
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 3: Does he not have a point there that so far

620
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: the prosecution of the former president has only served him

621
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: in his campaign for the White House.

622
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, hindsight is twenty twenty vision. I think you can

623
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 12: now look at and say advantage Trump when it comes

624
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 12: to at least the current status of his legal problems.

625
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 12: If he doesn't win election and he gets convicted and

626
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 12: he winds up serving time in prison. I don't think

627
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 12: anybody's going to say that. But that's not where we

628
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 12: are here. And I would say very clearly that Sara

629
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 12: Romney isn't claiming that Joe Biden has anything to do

630
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 12: with these prosecutions. If anything, I think he would say

631
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 12: that this proves that no one is above the law.

632
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 12: But I think what he's trying to get to is

633
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 12: a return to civility, a return to a dialogue that

634
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 12: is not so detrimental to our national interests, and that

635
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 12: only gets achieved by people making sacrifices. And in this case,

636
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 12: the sacrifice would have been the president's to basically reach

637
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 12: out with the power that he has to grant a

638
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 12: pardon to somebody who highly likely at the time, was

639
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 12: going to be the nominee of the party. And I

640
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 12: think there's something about national unity and rising above it

641
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 12: and serving causes greater than your own political self interests

642
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 12: that would have a nerd greatly to Biden's advantage. But

643
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 12: that's not where we are. And that gives the cudgel

644
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 12: to Donald Trump to then use his prosecution against Joe Biden,

645
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 12: so that that's just fair, right. I mean, it's his

646
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 12: Justice Department that has indicted him while he's a presidential candidate,

647
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 12: and you know, arguably he's done things that are wrong

648
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 12: that have been nurreed to this he is a court

649
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 12: of log going to decide whether he's guilty of these

650
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 12: things or not. But does that really advance the national

651
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 12: dialogue the way we would normally want to see it.

652
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 12: I doubt if any voter would say, yeah, that's Republican

653
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 12: or Democrat alike, that this is a good place where

654
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 12: we found ourselves.

655
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: It's really interesting, Genie, what's your thought on that? To

656
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: come back around, could Joe Biden actually turn a few

657
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: independent voters his wages the the optics of doing what

658
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: appears to be best for the nation.

659
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 11: I don't think it would change to voters' minds. I

660
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 11: think he would probably risk losing as many as he

661
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 11: may gain in the middle. And I think, you know

662
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 11: what Rick is talking about, I think is an important point.

663
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 11: I don't think it would help Joe Biden, in other words,

664
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 11: politically at this point in terms of the election, but

665
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 11: for the better interest of the public good, it may

666
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 11: be something worth considering. But again, this prosecution we're seeing

667
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 11: the hush money is a state court. He has got

668
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 11: no reach there. He could take action potentially on the

669
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 11: federal case. Is very unusual to do before the man

670
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 11: has even been convicted, and nothing would happen before the elections,

671
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 11: So you know, I see Senator Romney's point, but I

672
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 11: think it's a little bit too late to think about

673
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 11: something along those lines.

674
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 3: All right, Geenie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our signature political panel,

675
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: thank you so much. And it is an important thing

676
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 3: to consider here, Joe. While Donald Trump wouldn't be able

677
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 3: to pardon himself if he wins reelection in the state cases,

678
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: just the federal ones. We don't even know if the

679
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 3: federal cases will ever move forward, true delayed and definitely

680
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: at this point.

681
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 2: We have to remind ourselves that we're still waiting for

682
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: a very important ruling from the Supreme Court on presidential

683
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 2: immunity that may or may not lead to a Jack

684
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: Smith January sixth trial that would be a potential game changer.

685
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, well no, we think by June thirtieth, when

686
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 3: it's the end of the term. But they could always

687
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: kick it back down to a lower court and just

688
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 3: elongate this process any further. Will of course keep you

689
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 3: updated when we get news. We just don't have it

690
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 3: quite yet.

691
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast can

692
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

693
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: roun Otto with a Bloomberg Business app. You can also

694
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.

695
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

696
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: We turn our attention to what's happening in Lower Manhattan

697
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 2: once again, cross examination today for Michael Cohen. But it's

698
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: more the guests of the former president, the latest batch

699
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: of surrogates who are making news because, frankly, as we

700
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: talked about with June Grosso, we've heard a lot of

701
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: this already from Michael Cohen. Remember the Speaker of the

702
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: House went to the court a couple of days ago.

703
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: We've seen a number of folks who want to be

704
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 2: vice president Byron Donald's. We saw Governor Doug Bergham up there,

705
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: Vivek Ramaswami the litigator. Today it's the Freedom Caucus. They're

706
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: not wearing matching suits, but they are there with matching messages.

707
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: Matt Gates, Bob Good, Andy Gibbs, Lauren Bobert, all photographed

708
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: in the courtroom. There, I guess pitch in here on

709
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: the effort. Lisa Camuso Miller is seeing this photograph. If

710
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: you're with us on YouTube for the first time, right now,

711
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 2: there they are in court. As Donald Trump spoke earlier

712
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 2: with reporters, there's your lineup of course, Republican strategist, former

713
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: comms director at the Art and C. Great to see you,

714
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: welcome back. Are you going to court soon?

715
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 9: No?

716
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 14: Thank you?

717
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: Okay, this has become a strange field trip that is

718
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 2: apparently required. But Joe, what do you want to be in.

719
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 14: If you do, what do you do if you can't

720
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 14: be on the campaign trail? You have to bring people

721
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 14: to you, Mattie, So it's smart. I mean, we're in

722
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 14: uncharted territory, right, I mean, this is like something we've

723
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 14: never had to see before. But ordinarily, when you're on

724
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 14: the campaign trail, you're sitting down and you're bringing people

725
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 14: behind you. You're standing at the podium and they are

726
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 14: standing as your supporters. So I suppose that this is

727
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 14: the new normal, right, we are going to see people

728
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 14: make the pilgrimage to Lower Manhattan to stand behind the

729
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 14: former president.

730
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: As long as this thing's going, that's for as long

731
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: as this goes. This is like the new Codel. You

732
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: just go on up to New York.

733
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 14: But it's not serious, right, So at some point, I

734
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 14: think though there's a the worm turns right, And if

735
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 14: you are a member of Congress and you are supposed

736
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 14: to be demonstrating action and change for the elected as

737
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 14: an elected person for the constituencies, does this Does this

738
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 14: come back at you? People say, why are you not

739
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 14: home in the district. Why are you not in the

740
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 14: capital doing the work that you need to be doing.

741
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 14: So to me, this is something I think they have

742
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 14: to be very very careful about because right election season

743
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 14: is on and they want to see Congress get work

744
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 14: done the voters do.

745
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: Anyway, that's the idea. Well, let me ask you about that.

746
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: A couple of things here before we get to actual business.

747
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: I mentioned the Speaker of the House was there at

748
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: the courthouse, and as someone who worked for a former

749
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: Republican speaker, I can't imagine what went through your mind.

750
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: That's not just a lawmaker. This is one of the

751
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: highest ranking elected officials in the United States of America.

752
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: And Democrats are pretty upset that he went there and

753
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: have made clear in some cases that they will not

754
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 2: be there to support him if there's another motion to vacate.

755
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 2: I know he needs Donald Trump, but it sure seems

756
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: like he needs Democrats too. What did he just do

757
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: to himself, he.

758
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 14: Does, but also to Donald Trump has been a really

759
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 14: big supporter for this speaker, so that's really more important.

760
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 14: He's done everything he can to keep the speaker at

761
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 14: least sort of neutral in this fight with the Marjorie

762
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 14: Taylor Greens of the world and all of these other people.

763
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 14: The president, the former president has said he would prefer

764
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 14: that that not happen. And so it all depends on

765
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 14: what the vote is. Right, So Democrats can say whatever

766
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 14: they're going to say, but if we come down to

767
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 14: a vote that's about supporting our allies overseas or a

768
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 14: vote that's about the economy, Democrats are going to have

769
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 14: to work with this Congress or this Republican Conference because

770
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 14: the margins are so so narrow.

771
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: Otherwise, Yeah, wow, he did manage to get the FAA

772
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: reauthorization done, not to mention all the rest we saw

773
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: Ukraine funding pass, Israel, a lot of things that we

774
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: were told were never going to see the light of day.

775
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: So he's got a little bit of momentum here. But

776
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: now we're told that that's it, it's the sixteenth of

777
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: mayor we done for the rest of this Congress.

778
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 14: Well, it sure feels like I mean, I heard you

779
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 14: earlier say that this is a messaging game. From this

780
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 14: point on, that's precisely what happens in an election year,

781
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 14: and so it does really feel that way. But if

782
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 14: you're the Speaker and you are looking back at your

783
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 14: track record, he's got to be feeling pretty confident about

784
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 14: the fact that he got a lot done. The expectations

785
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 14: for this member was so low, and the fact that

786
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 14: he got these things completed and got them done, FAA reauthorisation,

787
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 14: all of that is real accomplishment that ordinarily no one

788
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 14: would have thought would have gotten done. And now Republicans

789
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 14: get to ride on that success and use it as

790
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 14: they're doing their messaging and moving forward into election day.

791
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 2: So bring us inside the Speaker's office at a moment

792
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: like this, Mike Johnson, who we're seeing there at the

793
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: court the other day on YouTube, back in town. You

794
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: bring your people in in the Speaker's office. What's the

795
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: conversation when it's they like, okay, well it's strategy mapping.

796
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: We're going to get this is real thing tonight. What

797
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 2: do we do next, mister speaker? How do we deploy

798
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: the troops? Knowing, as you just said, there's no more

799
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: policy being made the rest of this.

800
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 14: Year, there's not, but you have to think about what

801
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 14: are the messages, right, So they're looking really smartly at

802
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 14: what are the topics that people care about, right, They

803
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 14: care about the economy. They want to see action, They

804
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 14: want it actually more than anything, they want to see change.

805
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 14: They're not happy with the way this administration is handling

806
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 14: things right now, so they're going to do everything they

807
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 14: can to demonstrate that re electing or electing a larger

808
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 14: majority in the Republican Conference actually would be better and

809
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 14: more productive for the American people. And so that to

810
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 14: me is the kind of messaging that they're going to

811
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 14: be considering and working on from now until long after

812
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 14: a Memorial Day and into elections.

813
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: So you think about how to seize the moment. And

814
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: you've been through this time of year. We're going into

815
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: the campaign cycle, right, members, you want the members to

816
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: go away, don't be in Washington, go run for reelection

817
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: and raise money for all of us. Are we going

818
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 2: to see more runs to the border. Where are the

819
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: photo ops and the events that carry us through the summer.

820
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 14: Well, smartly, they're probably all looking at their own specific districts.

821
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 14: So yes, in those border states. They're going to talk

822
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 14: about the border in the states where they are really

823
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 14: concerned about the support of the military that they're going

824
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 14: to be talking about that. They're going to look very

825
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 14: specifically and what it is their own specific issues are

826
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 14: that they can talk directly about. And you and I

827
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 14: both know this. I mean I did. I didn't make

828
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 14: up the phrase. I mean, It's been around for as

829
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 14: long as you and I've been walking on the earth.

830
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 14: But it's about the economy more than anything else. And

831
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 14: so they're going to talk about what it is this

832
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 14: administration has done to not make people will feel better

833
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 14: about their own home budgets and their own, you know,

834
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 14: sort of their own personal economy. They're also going to

835
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 14: be talking about how it is that electing Republicans means

836
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 14: success for everyone outside of the Beltway.

837
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: This is, of course, all against the backdrop of a

838
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: presidential race, which is something that you and I talk

839
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: about a lot. And yesterday the big news was debates.

840
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: There's a debate about the debates. Now on this day

841
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: after as so, who was baited? Who got you know, served?

842
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: Does it help both of these candidates to stand in

843
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: front of the American people and have an old fashioned

844
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: debate because a lot of people thought we were beyond that.

845
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 14: I think it hurts both of them. It hurts both

846
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 14: of them, I think, I mean, neither one of them.

847
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 14: Neither one of them is very good in the debate.

848
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 14: Donald Trump looks petulant and Joe Biden is at this

849
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 14: point he also the two of them are not great debaters,

850
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 14: at least in my sort of personal public affairs. Look

851
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 14: is not good. And also like not who watches the debates, right,

852
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 14: people like you and me? Right, So I feel like

853
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 14: it is also happening in echo chamber.

854
00:43:58,239 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 3: We're all sort of.

855
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: Like more than ever now it's cable news, I know.

856
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 14: And we're all paying attention to whether or not one

857
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 14: over the other does better here in the debates. I

858
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 14: think that there will be gaffes. I think that it

859
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 14: provides each one of them an opportunity to attack the other,

860
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 14: so more than anything else, Yes, this is the way

861
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 14: the process has always worked. But the American people are

862
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 14: going to be tuning into YouTube and Netflix and all

863
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 14: the other places they can because they're really not interested

864
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 14: in what these two guys have to say, especially when

865
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 14: they're debating one another.

866
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: Got to be honest, with you. It would not have

867
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: surprised me if they had announced a live Netflix debate.

868
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be the modern thing to do?

869
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 14: It would be the modern thing to do. But we're

870
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 14: looking at two guys that are like, really, they.

871
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 2: Don't watch Netflix, which is part of the problem. So

872
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: you're you're prepping Joe Biden. I'm sorry, but you got

873
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 2: the job. How do you operate by the rules if

874
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 2: the other guy's not going.

875
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 14: To I'd like to see more of that Joe Biden

876
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 14: that delivered the State.

877
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 13: Of the Year.

878
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: You tell in and ready. What does he have to lose? Joe, Oh,

879
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 2: I don't know. You just reminded us of the stakes here.

880
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 14: I mean he does. The President himself does stumble. He's

881
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 14: famous for all of the gaffes that he makes. But

882
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 14: also too, the people that love and are going to

883
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 14: support Joe Biden or with Joe Biden, they'd prefer to

884
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 14: see him stand up to Donald Trump and call him

885
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 14: on the inaccuracies and the falsehoods that he advances when

886
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 14: he's in the debate. But can that happen in real time?

887
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 14: I'm not so sure. And so that's what I'd be

888
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 14: looking for. I'd be looking for opportunities. I'd be looking

889
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 14: for one liners. I'd be looking for the kinds of

890
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 14: things for the speed, for the excuse me for the

891
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 14: president to use as ways to go back at Donald

892
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 14: Trump without attacking him, but also calling him for some

893
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 14: of the inaccuracies and the falsehoods that he does advance

894
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 14: when he's on the debate stage.

895
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: You support the idea of cutting mics when people go over.

896
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 14: Time, Yes, I do, because I think people like you

897
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 14: and me who are consuming these debates want to hear

898
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 14: the issues and don't want to hear the back and forth.

899
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: We deserve mercy. But isn't that a precedent though I

900
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: keep bringing this up and people it's I don't nothing

901
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: matters anymore. But to be cutting off the microphone or

902
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: the president of the United States, that's a new president.

903
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 14: That would be really difficult.

904
00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 11: Yeah.

905
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 14: And if they didn't do it on the debate stage

906
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 14: with the candidates, Joe, it's super unlikely that they're going

907
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 14: to do it with two I mean, one former president

908
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 14: and one sitting president. It is very unlikely. And so

909
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 14: it's going to be the kind of thing that's going

910
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 14: to be unpalatable. People aren't going to want to watch it.

911
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,439
Speaker 2: Wow, yet you and I will.

912
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 5: We's page.

913
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 2: It's smart to go early. That's a win for Biden.

914
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: Get him up in June. I think it's smart to

915
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: goas atolls.

916
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 14: It really does. And I also think too that it's

917
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 14: smart for him to take on Donald Trump, especially now

918
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 14: when he's in the courtroom. So Joe Biden can be

919
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 14: perceived to someone who as leading and standing behind the

920
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 14: podium at the White House, and he is an elected

921
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 14: that is at least sort of perceived to be not

922
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 14: in the courtroom defending himself against bad decisions that the

923
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 14: former president potentially possibly may have made. Yes, so the

924
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 14: optics are good that that he can then go back

925
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 14: to the podium at the White House, stand behind the

926
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 14: bully pulpit, and say smart things. Well, Donald Trump is

927
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 14: in the courtroom talking about his debate performance while he's

928
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 14: also talking about his private performances.

929
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: I heard something about Thanks for listening to the Balance

930
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already,

931
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and

932
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC

933
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 2: at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com