WEBVTT - Death Penalties 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:09.280 Do I think Bails is a war criminal in the 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.240 sense of sort of that image that we think about 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.239 when we hear war criminal. I just think Bales is 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:19.080 a murderer. I think he's a mass murderer. During wartime. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.960 In twenty twelve and twenty thirteen, Lieutenant Colonel J. Morse 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.680 prosecuted Robert Bales on behalf of the United States military. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.000 I had peers who asked me why I didn't charge 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.279 it as a war crime, and my simple answer was, 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.600 I don't need to. I have all the tools I 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.160 need at my disposal to prosecute this guy. I really 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.440 thought about what I wanted this to look like when 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.320 it was done, and so I have all my notes, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.839 Like I kept a journal for a while, and so 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.360 I wrote down, I want a conviction one percent playing 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.440 by the rules. Number two was that I wanted the 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.480 victims to be a spy or at least understand our process. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:04.880 I didn't want the public to think these were just 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.880 a bunch of backwards brown people from the sticks. I 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.240 wanted them to understand that these were families, that these 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:17.080 were little girls and little boys, that these were farmers. 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:19.960 I wanted to understand that these people were human. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:25.480 Beings previously on the war within or. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.559 Flew me out of Panjue and then I ended up 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.960 here in Levenworth, Kansas. I really just want to see 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:32.800 my kids again. You know. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.680 We wanted to get John Nupergound involved because he's really 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:37.520 good with the media. 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.840 Carrie was scared, her family was scared. The Secretary of 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:46.080 the Fence, Leon Panetta, actually called for death penalty sent. 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.840 Causey's restorant was getting more and more kicks. 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.200 And the relationship was to tior me too. 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.760 This is an Afghan matter, and we just like took. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.120 The new to Africa country. Nothing is as it seems. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:57.080 It's all very nice. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.000 I was interviewing a little girl and she said to me, 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.680 I saw many soldiers with lights and they came and 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:06.560 they killed myself. 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.360 I'm Mike McGinnis. This is the war within the Robert 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:24.480 Bayle story. It's late March of twenty twelve, two weeks 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.480 after the kandaharm massacre. J Morris is looking to convict 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.080 Robert Baal's as cleanly as possible. He has no intention 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.320 of turning the case into the Army's version of the 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:35.400 OJ Simpson trial. 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.680 The last thing I wanted was no insurmountable mistakes. We're 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.679 going to make mistakes, but no mistake is going to 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.960 be insurmountable. I don't want any issue. I don't want 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.639 any violation of law, any violation of procedure, anything that's 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.360 going to allow a higher court to say we did 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:53.000 something wrong. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.920 It's an honorable goal, but easier said than done, especially 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.239 when your own government is complicating matters. As Morse was 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.720 building his argument, the United States paid substantial sums of 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.600 money to the families of the Afghan victims as an 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.040 apology for the killings. In some scenarios, this could be 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:14.560 seen as witness tampering. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.640 One of the things I was concerned about was they 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.720 were given salatia payments, not by US as a prosper, 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.480 like you keep that as far away from me as possible. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.400 I don't want to hear about it. There can't be 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.200 anything that looks like I'm somehow manipulating or trying to 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:30.120 curry favor with them. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.120 The families were paid the equivalent of fifty thousand dollars 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.280 per death and ten thousand per wounded. U Le Baron, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.800 an Afghan man who lost his brother, explains the process. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.280 In the beginning, nobody gave us any information. After a 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.280 few days, we were told that two point three million 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.960 Afghanis will be paid for each market. The Americans said 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.200 that this is from Obama and we did not have 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.280 any other information where the money came from. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.000 Was this money paid to you in cash. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.200 Yes, they gave us this money in cash in the province. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.800 Giving a family compensation or whatever for the loss of life. Well, 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.720 that's not really resolving the actual issue of why it 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:18.600 happened to begin with. 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.440 Journalist Yalda Hakim spoke personally with the victims during her 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.720 journey to the villages of Alakozai and Najabien. From her 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.120 point of view, the decision to give money had the 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:30.400 potential to backfire. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.720 It's kind of a band aid fix to something that 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:39.640 then can also become deeply embedded and resentment is built, 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.160 and that then means that the Taliban are able to 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.680 use it as part of their propaganda, like the Americans 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.800 have come, they've taken over your. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.800 Land, and they've occupied this place. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.800 And then on top of that they just have the 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.440 free reign to go and kill people. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.080 Case in point, Haiji Mohammed Naim almost died in the 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.000 Knahem massacre him. The Solasia payments did not have the 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:02.920 desired effect. 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.000 I told the Americans at the airport that we don't 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.760 want your money. We just want this person who wronged 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:16.480 us to be executed. They only know money, They do 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:17.160 not know God. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.040 Haji Mohammad Wazir lost six children that night. He added 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.919 the following, it. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.600 Is not acceptable for us. It was not acceptable then 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.760 and it will not be acceptable in the future. Even 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.080 if the Americans gave us all their money, it would 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:36.000 not be acceptable. 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.360 Cash payments were never going to offset the tragic loss 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.000 of family members, not to mention, they could have threatened 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.240 the sanctity of the Bails trial. So why did the 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.400 United States feel the need to pay the Afghan victims? 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.040 Robert Bales has a simple theory, as he tells his 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.600 appellate lawyer, John Mayer, America wanted to appease Afghan President 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.560 Hamid Karzai. The money for the families was funneled through 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:03.160 his regime. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.960 Cars I is a scumbag, all right. I mean, let's 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.599 just be honest about it. Because the Seattle Times article, 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.479 I don't know if you remember this, where the United 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.600 States government was taking bags of money and giving them 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.080 to cars I bags. So we're giving him all this 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.280 cash to buy his influence, and we weren't. You know here, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.880 here's the thing. We do this all over the world, 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.000 except that cars I had the ability to say, Hey, 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:26.880 thanks America, I'm gonna take your money and I'm not 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:28.400 gonna do what you want me to do. I'm gonna 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.520 do what I want to do. And so I don't 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.120 believe that cars I cared about those people at all. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.600 I believe cars I wanted to make tons of money. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.000 We can't say for sure that cars I used American 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:43.400 funds to enrich himself, but it's certainly possible. AP journalist 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.320 Kathy Gannon notes that a lot of American tax payer 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.279 dollars were sent to Afghanistan with little payoffs. Where did you. 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:51.040 Spend your money? 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.880 Just the US spent one hundred and forty five billion 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:59.200 dollars in development, not defense, defense, much more. The poverty 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.320 level when you left at one hundred and forty five 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.599 billion dollars, And what is the state of the country 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:07.720 of Afghanistan. 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.960 To say that twenty twelve Afghanistan was under resourced is 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.080 unfortunately to state the obvious for all of the investment 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.360 that the country got from the US. Robert Bales recalls 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.400 that the local Afghan police force was not a well 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:26.160 oiled machine. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.600 Well, these Afghan National Civil Arming policemen were not from 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.600 this area where, they were not from Bellmar, they were 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.559 from the north. They didn't know the area, they didn't 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.840 know the people. They were just there as a police 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.640 force and they didn't want to leave their little police 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.160 station because they realized it was such a bad area. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.000 In the wake of the Kanahan massacre, the Afghan police 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.920 were responsible for gathering evidence from the crime scene. Bals 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.440 trial lawyer John Henry Brown doesn't believe that it was 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.000 comprehensive in nature. 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.800 But military to their defense was hampered by the inadequacy 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.160 of the Afghan police. The photographs of these guys in 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:09.560 their leather jackets walking around the crime scene with no 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.239 booties on or anything, you know, not taking any blood samples, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.440 not clicked in the empty casings, you start out with that. 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:24.160 That's the problem. So it wasn't a normal investigation that 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.240 we would see on CSI. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.800 Or something a defense attorney calling evidence into question, that's 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.760 not shocking. But media reports and even carsi's own men 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:39.079 confirmed that the investigation could not have been conclusive. No 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.000 matter the circumstances, Prosecutor J. Moore still had a job 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:43.240 to do. 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.880 A case like Bails was a criminal investigation from the 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:47.520 very beginning. 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.920 Where did the information from the criminal investigation come from? 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.040 Was that just the c IDEA agents on the ground. 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.640 Yes, exactly right, see IDEA agents on the ground, US 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.000 our team conducting interviews with with witnesses. Between those two things. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:06.360 Yes, CID stands for Criminal Investigation Division. They're essentially the 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.319 Army's version of Internal Affairs. A full two weeks after 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.400 the killings, CID traveled to Alakozai and nonage of bien 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.480 On Morris's behalf. Special Forces Captain Danny Fields remembers that 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.000 they too quickly learned about the instability of the region. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.600 CID was being pushed very hard by the Afghan government 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.720 that they needed to collect evidence, and of course we said, hey, 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.240 look we'll fully support you. I'm going to advise that 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.440 if you go to that location, it is very kinetic, 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.240 it's very dangerous, and it's likely that you will get 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:40.079 into a firefight, so you will need support. Again, we 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.240 had clear orders that we weren't allowed to leave the base, 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.080 so that support was not really going to come from US, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.200 So they gathered up their crew, they went down there. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.800 Sure enough, they got in a firefight. One or two 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.120 Afghan National Army folks were killed, and yeah, that was 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.679 a gruesome scene. I believe they gathered some evidence. I 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.040 don't know, you know, the quality of that evidence or 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:00.160 how much or anything like that. 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.079 When the process was happening, the things that frustrated me 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:04.959 was how long it took us to get to the 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.439 crime scene. I was frustrated in that because I was 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.439 concerned that we were going to lose all the evidence. 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.240 If there was any DNA out there that we could 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.880 tie to, Bales would be gone. And ultimately it wasn't 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.480 a lot of it was gone, but we were able 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.839 to recover enough that we could tie DNA at the 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.439 scene to DNA on blood on Mail's pants, blood inside 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.160 the barrel of his weapon. So that was frustrating at 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.839 the time, but it didn't create any issues for me. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.240 Morse felt like he ultimately got what he needed, but 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.040 not everybody shared his confidence. Private James Alexander, who was 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.600 on the base with Captain Fields, wasn't convinced that the case. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:42.400 Was so open and shut. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.839 This is too dangerous of a place for lawyers to be, 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.360 investigators to be. They weren't able to go to the 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.000 crime scene and get fingerprints. And they did some DNA testing, sure, 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.560 but that was like, yeah, you're going to find Bales's 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.079 DNA there, obviously, but they didn't talk about all of 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.280 the other people's DNA. They weren't able to interview all 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.280 of the people nearby that said, yes, we saw two 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.920 people here. There is a report one of the people 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:12.560 that lived nearby said that she heard two men drunkenly 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.959 arguing outside. Now, two men arguing, okay, that could be 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:23.719 anything but drunkenly arguing. That is really really, really fascinating. 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.079 That stuff was all done second and third hand sources 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.360 from reporters. It wasn't a military thing. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.400 We ended the last episode with a potential revelation, the 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.920 possibility that Robert Bales did not act alone on that 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:48.679 fateful night. During her reporting in Ala Kozai in Najapien, 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.319 Yalda Hakim spoke to Afghan survivors who claimed to have 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.400 seen multiple American soldiers on the night of March eleven. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.199 I was interviewing a little girl and she said to me, 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.360 I saw many soldiers with lights coming out of their helmets. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.800 I saw many, many soldiers and they came and they 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:10.559 killed my father. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.840 And then another child was saying, the multiple people, they're helicopters. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:16.199 And the multiple people. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.800 Her Keen's reporting was turned into a piece for Australian 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.280 news outlet SBS, which premiered on March twenty nine, twenty twelve. 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.920 Titled Anatomy of a Massacre. It introduced a new sign 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:32.559 of the story to Western audiences, with the first instance 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.719 of a journalist raising doubts around what really happened that 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:36.560 night in Canadar. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.440 That massacre of seventeen civilians by a rogue US soldier 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.880 is still shrouded in mystery and disinformation. We lift that 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.599 veil tonight a little, at least with some incredible accusations 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:54.120 from the villages themselves, accusations that more than one American 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.559 soldier was involved in the killings. Yelder he Kim and 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.880 Camerman Ryan Sheridan have just returned earned from the village 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.760 where the killings occurred and reveal a deeply disturbing story 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:06.000 of what happened that evening. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:11.160 The story exploded across the globe. Every news network around 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.800 the world talked about this reporter who crossed the mindfield 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.000 to get access to the massacre scene and spoke to 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:19.360 the witnesses for the first time. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.200 And I remember CNN running the story every hour at. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:24.000 The top of the hour. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.080 When you were speaking with these villagers and you spent 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.640 some time with them, did you think they told you everything? 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.640 Were their stories accurate, were they holding anything back or 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:33.760 were they completely upfront? 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:34.600 Well? 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.079 I did sense that they were upfront and that their 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.880 stories were heartfelt. Of course, there were some disparities between 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.040 the stories I spoke to, mainly children, and its always, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.280 you know, machinery. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.120 Kicks in the news cycle, kicks in news turns into 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.040 news from it, so you know, they were dissecting it, 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.360 pulling it apart, having conversations about what this meant. And 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.520 then we got a kind of letter from the media 0:13:58.640 --> 0:13:59.520 watchdog in. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.880 Saying the complaint has been filed against the film. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.719 People took issue with what they described as believe it 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.920 or not disinformation, that it was false and fabricated, and 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.640 the multiple soldier theory was pushed and that was a lie, 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.200 and I think they called it the anatomy of fake 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:21.040 news or something. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.600 In March and April of twenty twelve, the media was 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.200 debating whether this staff sergeant had acted alone, but the 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.760 US military's list of suspects never expanded beyond Robert Bales. 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.720 Lieutenant Colonel Morse explains. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.760 This idea that there was more than one soldier involved 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.360 other than Bales. I will tell you that no one 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.000 who was an eyewitness says anything other than one person. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:45.960 No, not one. 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.720 There may have been other people in the community who 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.280 said that there was a platoon out here. I remember 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:57.040 one person apparently said, not to us, but elector reporters, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.560 that there were helicopters in the area, like the helicopter 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.160 was based doing an aerosault, like dropping off a platon 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.880 of people to commit these murders. No one who was 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.280 actually there, not the kids. None of them there said 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.040 anything other than one person. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.240 Morson Haakim have heard different accounts of the same event, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.120 but neither of them were in Panshwe that night. Only 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.880 the Afghan civilians Males himself can truly speak to what 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.600 actually happened in the Kanaharmascer. But during the investigation, CID 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.400 was not asking this question, and Captain Field's estimation they 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:39.280 didn't need to, Well, do you think CID did a 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.240 good job in kind of uncovering what happened. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:45.720 It's pretty clear what happened. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.400 I'm not an expert at at gathering investigative data and 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.000 criminally prosecuting people, but it seems like they did at 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.640 least a good enough job because mails he's behind bars 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:57.240 where he should be. 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.600 My job is the prosecutor is not to win. That's 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.480 not my job. My job is the prosecutor is to 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.600 represent the government in the pursuit of justice. 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.360 Robert Bales was tried under the Uniform Code of Military 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:23.480 Justice or UCMJ. Military court is not the same as 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.600 regular civilian court, although there is some overlap. As Jade Morris. 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.120 Explains, except for the uniforms, you wouldn't be able to 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.160 tell the difference between a military court martial and a 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.200 civilian criminal court. It looks exactly the same, We follow 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.200 the same rules of procedure, lots of similarities. 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.920 The main difference between a civilian trial in a court 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:50.760 martial somewhat obvious. At a court martial, pretty much everybody 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:51.760 is in the military. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.560 You walk into this courtroom, you're going to see the prosecutor, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.560 sometimes called the trial council. You're going to see the 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.880 defense attorney sitting with the defendant. You're going to see 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:03.640 a judge who sits up a little bit higher than 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.119 everyone else. That judge is in the military. He or 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:11.240 she tends to be senior officers. And then lastly, your 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.040 jury we call it a panel in the military. Your 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.359 panels made up of all military members. The qualifications they 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.080 have to be senior to the person accused of the crime. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.720 On some level. Military law should work differently than civilian 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.920 law given the extreme circumstances that soldiers face and combat. 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.560 The bails in his current attorney, John Mahyr believe that 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.600 there's a problem with a judge any jury essentially playing 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:38.400 for the same team. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.520 You know, the thing is U Smjay is where else 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.920 in the world would you three to five guys on 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.280 a jury. You know, three guys can put a guy 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:50.480 in prison for one hundred years. 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:51.080 You know what I mean? 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.520 Nowhere, and those same three guys are hand selected by 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.960 the guy that refers to charges. You know, not only 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.159 do you have to agree with me, if you all 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.280 agree with me, I'm going to be able to control 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.440 your career for the rest of your career. 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.639 Innocent until proven guilty, it's one of the tenets of 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.520 the American justice system. But Bails and Maher believe that 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.600 this mantra doesn't really apply to military cases. In their eyes, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.040 the game is rigged, a point supported by the u 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.040 CMJ's high conviction rate. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.800 It's ninety eight percent or ninety seven percent conviction rate 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.880 in the u cmjy right, that's true. Like the closest 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.000 to that is Nazi Germany. I think if you were 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.040 a Jew in Nazi Germany, you had a better chance 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.440 of not being killed by the Nazis, then you do it. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.120 Not being convicted in the u CMJA ninety eight percent 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.240 or ninety seven percent. You can't tell me that the 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:47.600 analytics of that are right. 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.040 John Mayer works with many clients who have been convicted 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.480 by the useum J. He has strong opinions on this 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.080 cross pollination between judge, jury and prosecution. 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.200 Separation of powers is big deal and candidly, I do 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:07.119 believe the army has its own ideas. UCMJ was created 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.280 for good order and discipline, that's it. It was not 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:15.000 meant to be a litigation manual. Military law has evolved 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.360 into a whole body of jurisprudence that was not conceived 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.320 or visioned at its inception. I do believe and this 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.520 is just John Mayer on this, but the UCMJ right now, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.960 they're going to protect the army. At the end of 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.639 the day, it see the army who's the client, the individual? 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.360 How many times do we see the army throw guys away. 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.160 All the time? Gay Mors doesn't have the same concerns 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.399 about the potential for bias in the military justice system. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.520 I frankly have confidence in the system. I believe they 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.199 pick in fairness. I believe they follow the rules, especially 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.760 the higher up you go. I think the panel system works. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.840 However, as Robert Bales's court martial began, trial lawyer John 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.399 Henry Brown had a bad feeling about the panel who 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.080 would determin in his client's fate. 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.800 Now, Army, of course chose the jury. The jury was 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.560 to decide whether Bobby got life withdrawal or life without role. 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:15.560 That jury looked like Mount Rushmore. They looked like Stone. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.240 They didn't seem to have any empathy at all. But 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.600 when you get the commanding officer choosing the jury, and 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.399 the commanding officer believes that this guy should get the 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.880 death penalty, what do you think is going to happen. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.240 In a courtroom filled with members of the military. Brown 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.359 was the odd man out. He never served. Generally, he 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.960 didn't have the same worldview as the people who had. 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:44.840 But I didn't have a lot of experience in the 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:50.359 military courts. I had represented a couple of deserters who 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.200 went to Canada during the Vietnam War. 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.639 But when Carrie Bales asked him to represent her husband, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.680 Brown felt compelled to accept the job. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.760 I was just angry. I was just playing angry about 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:08.840 the way the government was disowning. I mean, here's the 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:14.240 guy who's turned into a rogue monster by the media 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.240 and the military superiors. 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.400 The Bailes family was not wealthy. They couldn't afford attorney 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.480 fees that would run in the mid six figures. Brown 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.280 ended up taking the case pro bono. 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.879 I've had a practice in my life, still doing it 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.960 now where I don't believe clients in the lurs. 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:38.240 How many hours and total resources went into defending Robert 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.080 Bayals like during his trial, it. 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.920 Was about two thousand hours, and that's probably an underestimate. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.040 At one point, I didn't think we could continue representing 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.840 Bobby because I just didn't think I could afford it, 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:50.600 but we pulled it off. 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.760 When Brown began to discuss the case of Robert Bayales, 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.960 the best line of defense seemed to be abundantly clear. 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:03.120 When I met Bobby the first time, it was in Leavenworth. 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.000 He had been wisted out of Afghanistan and then eventually 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.000 ended up in leven Worth within a week or so, 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.200 and I ended up going there and meeting with him, 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:17.160 and he was still exhibiting the symptoms of post traumatic 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:21.879 stress disorder. So it was like he couldn't believe that 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.840 what he was being accused of. He had really believable 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.680 lack of memory of what occurred, which is part of PGSD. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.240