WEBVTT - Sylvan Esso 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.996 Pushkin. Today on the show, we'll be hearing from sylvan Essos, 0:00:23.156 --> 0:00:26.836 Nick Sanborn and Amelia Meath. They've been making music together 0:00:26.876 --> 0:00:30.756 since twenty thirteen, when Amelia asked Nick, a music producer 0:00:30.756 --> 0:00:34.116 and bassist, to remix her band Mountain Man's hit single 0:00:34.236 --> 0:00:37.836 play It Right. He did. End as they say, the 0:00:37.956 --> 0:00:42.076 rest is history. From the very beginning, sylvan Esso's had 0:00:42.116 --> 0:00:46.596 a very sleek electro pop feel to their production. Amelia's 0:00:46.636 --> 0:00:49.956 powerful voice is front and center, surrounded by harmonies and 0:00:50.236 --> 0:00:54.676 samples of her own voice. Nick's genre destroying bass creates intricate, 0:00:54.716 --> 0:00:59.116 pulsing grooves for Amelia's voice to inhabit. Now, the married 0:00:59.116 --> 0:01:02.556 couple and electronic duo have released their fourth studio album, 0:01:02.876 --> 0:01:06.116 No Rules Sandy. It's a follow up to the band's 0:01:06.116 --> 0:01:10.596 Grammy nominated twenty twenty album Free Love. This new album 0:01:10.676 --> 0:01:14.996 is a mix of improvisation and experimentation, recorded primarily in 0:01:15.036 --> 0:01:17.916 the span of three weeks at a rented studio space 0:01:17.956 --> 0:01:22.356 in La just earlier this year. On today's episode, Bruce 0:01:22.356 --> 0:01:24.996 had them speaks with Amelia and Nick about their creative 0:01:25.036 --> 0:01:28.636 process and how No Rule Sandy came to be. They 0:01:28.676 --> 0:01:33.996 also play songs off their new album Live for Us. 0:01:35.116 --> 0:01:38.276 This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. 0:01:38.556 --> 0:01:42.396 I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce had them with Amelia Meath 0:01:42.556 --> 0:01:58.636 and Nick Sandborne of sylvan esod banging coming fine watchman, 0:01:59.156 --> 0:02:10.996 I'm looking fine streets back in the same body. Try 0:02:11.116 --> 0:02:17.236 to where be wait wait just for me me. There's 0:02:17.236 --> 0:02:22.836 a lot of down fallow down. When she said, when 0:02:22.916 --> 0:02:37.956 they got down beating down to follow, follow to let 0:02:40.756 --> 0:02:45.596 see the lading, be let the echo, gut your v 0:02:47.436 --> 0:02:52.956 there's a lot of people down down fall down, she stays, 0:02:53.156 --> 0:02:59.196 when they got drive beating baring all around, everybody played 0:02:59.356 --> 0:03:07.196 down to how there's a lot of em falled down. 0:03:07.396 --> 0:03:15.796 When she stays, when they got laid down, you want 0:03:15.996 --> 0:03:34.596 to do now, there's a lot of people want people work, 0:03:35.276 --> 0:03:42.156 they don't. You don't work. They don't. They don't work. 0:03:42.916 --> 0:04:08.396 They don't. Don't You don't work, they don't. So fortu listen, 0:04:09.396 --> 0:04:15.116 you were were so many many as among you. I 0:04:15.356 --> 0:04:22.196 was waving a small mon bye bye bye bye bye 0:04:22.876 --> 0:04:31.716 bye bye bye thane bye bye bye bye bye thne 0:04:32.396 --> 0:04:41.236 bye bane bye bye bye b bye bye bye bye 0:04:41.916 --> 0:04:51.756 bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye 0:04:52.396 --> 0:05:47.196 bye fine fine, fine, do now do play down right? 0:05:47.436 --> 0:05:54.796 No right now no right no no no no right 0:05:55.036 --> 0:05:59.436 no no no r no no no no no no 0:05:59.876 --> 0:06:03.796 no no no. Well, thank you so much. That was 0:06:04.516 --> 0:06:09.516 a live version of Echo Party from Sylvan Esso's new album, 0:06:09.796 --> 0:06:13.396 which is No Rule Sandy. All. That sound was created 0:06:13.436 --> 0:06:16.916 by just two people in the studio with me Amelia 0:06:17.156 --> 0:06:20.436 Meath and Nick Sandborn. Thank you so much for coming, 0:06:20.836 --> 0:06:23.196 thanks for having us, and thanks for that great version 0:06:23.236 --> 0:06:25.596 of that song. I will also mention that the new 0:06:25.676 --> 0:06:29.716 album got a rave review from the New York Times, 0:06:30.276 --> 0:06:33.756 which does not often give rave reviews. Before we get 0:06:33.796 --> 0:06:37.116 into how you create so much music just the two 0:06:37.156 --> 0:06:39.876 of you, let's talk a little bit about this new 0:06:39.916 --> 0:06:43.236 album how it came about. Nick and I have started 0:06:43.276 --> 0:06:47.756 a tradition where every January we load our car full 0:06:47.796 --> 0:06:50.836 of things and drive from North Carolina to Los Angeles. 0:06:51.796 --> 0:06:55.116 This January was no different. We were on our way 0:06:55.356 --> 0:06:57.836 to go both do a bunch of songwriting sessions and 0:06:57.876 --> 0:06:59.236 also go to the Grammys at the end of the 0:06:59.316 --> 0:07:02.196 month and gets in Los Angeles sunshine. And then when 0:07:02.236 --> 0:07:05.156 we got there to our rental, the omicron variant had 0:07:05.196 --> 0:07:08.476 spiked and everything was canceled. So Nick and I found 0:07:08.516 --> 0:07:11.636 ourselves like a little baby studio set up in this 0:07:11.836 --> 0:07:14.836 house with no one to hang out with other than 0:07:14.916 --> 0:07:19.396 each other. And so every day we tried to write 0:07:19.396 --> 0:07:22.116 a song, and the most magical part of it was 0:07:22.196 --> 0:07:25.796 that every time we tried we could. We wrote all 0:07:25.876 --> 0:07:29.276 these songs about the span of three weeks together. Yeah, 0:07:29.356 --> 0:07:33.436 it was just kind of this magical, totally unexpected time 0:07:33.916 --> 0:07:36.196 that neither of us really saw coming, and it was 0:07:36.236 --> 0:07:39.476 all kind of born out of this wild trip that 0:07:39.596 --> 0:07:43.036 like where everything went wrong except this. Do you write 0:07:43.076 --> 0:07:45.996 every day when you're in Durham as well or only 0:07:46.036 --> 0:07:47.916 only when you have to put out an album? No, 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:51.116 I don't. I don't. I find that when I'm in 0:07:51.236 --> 0:07:55.236 the practice of songwriting it won't be like around a 0:07:55.396 --> 0:07:58.716 record necessarily, but I'll do it in a short period 0:07:58.796 --> 0:08:01.556 of time, pushing towards something. But normally I have to 0:08:01.636 --> 0:08:05.596 like chill out between writing. Otherwise I only write songs 0:08:05.636 --> 0:08:07.996 about writing songs, and you can only write so many 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:11.916 of those when you are writing, because you, guys, this 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:15.116 is electronic music. How does the song typically begin? Does 0:08:15.156 --> 0:08:17.716 it begin with a loop? Does it begin with a sound? 0:08:17.876 --> 0:08:20.916 Does it begin with a lyric. How does this come together? 0:08:21.556 --> 0:08:24.876 It happens in all sorts of different ways. How it's 0:08:24.916 --> 0:08:27.996 been happening most recently is Nick and I will sit 0:08:28.036 --> 0:08:31.316 in the same room and we'll Nick will start making noise, 0:08:31.916 --> 0:08:35.436 and I will encourage him in the directions that I like, 0:08:36.116 --> 0:08:38.356 so like if he finds like a beautiful section then 0:08:38.396 --> 0:08:40.436 he makes I'll be like, loop that, Let's loop that 0:08:40.596 --> 0:08:46.356 and then let's build something around that. Or sometimes he's 0:08:46.876 --> 0:08:53.476 just doodling around and then I begin responding by writing lyrics. Yeah, 0:08:53.556 --> 0:08:56.476 it doesn't feel like we haven't We haven't never found 0:08:56.556 --> 0:08:59.116 like a formula, or the minute we do come up 0:08:59.116 --> 0:09:00.956 with anything that works more than once, I think we 0:09:01.156 --> 0:09:02.996 immediately get sick of it or it doesn't feel its 0:09:03.036 --> 0:09:06.636 inspiring anymore. It's kind of it's kind of this process 0:09:06.676 --> 0:09:08.756 of each of us is trying to kind of shock 0:09:08.836 --> 0:09:11.796 or prize the other one into maybe something we wouldn't expect, 0:09:11.916 --> 0:09:14.956 and it's yeah, it's kind of this Jacob's Ladder kind 0:09:14.956 --> 0:09:16.756 of situation where we're trying to hit the ball a 0:09:16.796 --> 0:09:19.596 little higher than the other one. Well, there's a host 0:09:19.676 --> 0:09:22.516 of great songs on this record. Tell me how this 0:09:22.756 --> 0:09:25.876 one came about? The one you just performed Echo Party. Yeah, 0:09:26.236 --> 0:09:29.236 we got the chorus first because Nick had that beautiful 0:09:29.316 --> 0:09:31.436 bass part. Yeah, we had we had like the beat 0:09:31.476 --> 0:09:34.316 in the bassline, and we knew sometimes that's all you 0:09:34.476 --> 0:09:37.636 need to know something's gonna be cool. Like you know, 0:09:37.756 --> 0:09:40.396 you can see you can't quite see the whole song yet, 0:09:40.436 --> 0:09:41.916 but you have this this piece of it that's so 0:09:42.076 --> 0:09:44.956 promising that you almost don't want to mess with it 0:09:45.076 --> 0:09:47.756 too much for fear that you might overcook it or 0:09:47.796 --> 0:09:49.956 screw it up somehow. Yeah, that was the loveliest part 0:09:49.956 --> 0:09:51.556 of this song. As we got the chorus first, and 0:09:51.596 --> 0:09:54.156 then the chorus had no words. It was just me 0:09:54.316 --> 0:10:00.676 going like yeah, and Nick and I got so stoked, 0:10:00.756 --> 0:10:02.236 and we kept on trying to play it for other 0:10:02.316 --> 0:10:06.556 people and everyone would be like, h but I do that. 0:10:06.676 --> 0:10:09.916 It was Nick and I were like this loally great. No, 0:10:10.596 --> 0:10:13.076 we could only hear it in our heads though, Yeah, 0:10:13.076 --> 0:10:14.356 and now you got to like kind of let it 0:10:14.436 --> 0:10:19.196 reveal itself. Yeah. And then one day I just sat 0:10:19.636 --> 0:10:23.476 Unlike all of our other records, usually I agonize about 0:10:23.716 --> 0:10:26.876 lyrics and they either they either appear right when I'm 0:10:26.876 --> 0:10:30.756 writing the melody on top, or they are incredibly elusive. 0:10:31.596 --> 0:10:34.276 But with this record, I just sat down and would 0:10:34.356 --> 0:10:37.276 make myself just write them out, so like one day 0:10:37.356 --> 0:10:39.276 we got all the lyrics. I knew that it was 0:10:39.316 --> 0:10:42.516 going to be about like being in an empty city 0:10:42.596 --> 0:10:45.356 at nighttime and like trying to find the party of 0:10:45.396 --> 0:10:48.316 your dreams. Well, you had that idea of the of 0:10:48.436 --> 0:10:50.676 there being less people every time you go back to something, 0:10:51.516 --> 0:10:54.076 and that's kind of where that that echo party phrase 0:10:54.156 --> 0:10:56.156 cards started happening, and that kind of became like the 0:10:56.276 --> 0:10:59.156 central like everything kind of not looking around that. Yeah, 0:10:59.396 --> 0:11:03.156 it's about how it fades in everybody verberation. Oh yeah, 0:11:03.356 --> 0:11:07.916 that's really interesting now because of the way the songs 0:11:08.036 --> 0:11:10.076 are put together and they're or loops and then there's 0:11:10.076 --> 0:11:13.756 a baseline, often very syncopated. Are you guys thinking in 0:11:13.996 --> 0:11:18.236 terms of conventional chords? Are you like you ever say 0:11:18.316 --> 0:11:20.356 well this sounds good, but here I'll I'm going to 0:11:20.436 --> 0:11:23.196 play a C minor on top of that, because that's 0:11:23.236 --> 0:11:25.556 how most people write. They sit at a guitar or 0:11:25.596 --> 0:11:29.596 they sit at the piano and they play a few chords. 0:11:30.476 --> 0:11:33.156 Whereas you, guys, it feels like you're on a high 0:11:33.196 --> 0:11:36.356 wire with what you're doing because it doesn't have that 0:11:36.396 --> 0:11:38.716 sort of harmony running through the whole set. I think 0:11:38.756 --> 0:11:41.956 a big thing we do is more like reharmonizing. That's 0:11:41.996 --> 0:11:44.236 a big we want. A second earlier about trying to 0:11:44.236 --> 0:11:46.516 surprise each other is something that I will do a 0:11:46.636 --> 0:11:49.236 lot is She'll have a melody that we really love, 0:11:49.636 --> 0:11:51.556 but like, let's say the third time it happens, I 0:11:51.636 --> 0:11:53.716 want to it's like she changed, the lyrics change, and 0:11:53.796 --> 0:11:56.036 the feeling of what she's saying changes, even if the 0:11:56.076 --> 0:11:59.076 melody doesn't. So like, in that way, we'll absolutely think 0:11:59.076 --> 0:12:01.316 about in a more theory kind of base menthet of like, Okay, 0:12:01.356 --> 0:12:04.116 how can I reharmonize the thing she's already doing to 0:12:04.276 --> 0:12:07.596 kind of change your perception of the same idea. We 0:12:07.676 --> 0:12:10.836 do that all the time. I love we do. I 0:12:10.996 --> 0:12:13.236 learned how to play the guitar during the pandemic, and 0:12:13.396 --> 0:12:15.516 all the songs that I write on the guitar aren't 0:12:15.716 --> 0:12:18.796 as melodically interesting as the ones that I write in 0:12:18.916 --> 0:12:21.436 the air or in like in response to what Nick makes. 0:12:22.036 --> 0:12:25.276 So I'm sticking to that at the moment. Oh that's interesting. 0:12:25.396 --> 0:12:29.076 You find it more confining then, yeah, or like maybe 0:12:29.116 --> 0:12:31.356 it's also because I'm a little guitar. Baby, you know, 0:12:31.676 --> 0:12:35.516 it's a CDG world for me in the guitar, and 0:12:36.116 --> 0:12:39.396 if I'm just writing in the air, all chords are open. Yeah, 0:12:39.436 --> 0:12:42.076 it's just much freer. Now. What was your music experience 0:12:42.356 --> 0:12:46.916 growing up in your home? I'm from a theatrical singing family. 0:12:47.436 --> 0:12:49.236 We used to sing around the dinner table a lot. 0:12:49.756 --> 0:12:52.756 And I grew up in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and there was 0:12:52.836 --> 0:12:58.196 a solstice celebration called the Revels, So every Solstice we 0:12:58.236 --> 0:13:00.996 would all get together and sing folk songs. Wow, were 0:13:01.036 --> 0:13:04.916 your parents were they performers or are they just amateurs? Yeah? 0:13:04.996 --> 0:13:08.196 There were amateurs. My mom was in audio and my 0:13:08.316 --> 0:13:11.636 dad was in TV. But there's a lot of singing 0:13:11.676 --> 0:13:15.396 in musicality and creativity. So you grew up on their 0:13:15.476 --> 0:13:19.516 folk music. Is this like sixties folk music? Or oh really, 0:13:19.556 --> 0:13:21.436 what we're listening to in the house is like Bonnie 0:13:21.516 --> 0:13:26.196 Ray and Foreigner and Nick Lowe. But the songs that 0:13:26.276 --> 0:13:30.236 we would sing were all were like a mix of 0:13:30.356 --> 0:13:35.076 those and folk songs. Okay, And then you're I don't 0:13:35.076 --> 0:13:38.636 know if it's your first career, but you sing mountain 0:13:38.716 --> 0:13:41.076 music with Mountain Men, which was your first group. Yeah, 0:13:41.156 --> 0:13:45.156 Mountain Man, right, and you still perform, is that right? Okay? 0:13:45.956 --> 0:13:48.996 Uh so, and did you play piano growing up then 0:13:49.196 --> 0:13:50.796 or anything else? It was just it was just a 0:13:50.876 --> 0:13:54.316 singing thing. I tried to play piano, but or I 0:13:54.516 --> 0:14:00.636 just hated practicing, right, yeah, well hated it, couldn't do it. Yeah, 0:14:00.756 --> 0:14:03.676 you took piano lessons, which just kills more piano players 0:14:03.716 --> 0:14:06.316 than anything. I also think that's one of those things. 0:14:06.316 --> 0:14:07.996 I was always jealous of people who could sing really 0:14:08.036 --> 0:14:10.356 well at a young age because I think if you 0:14:10.476 --> 0:14:14.316 have that, you're kind of set like nerds like me 0:14:14.436 --> 0:14:16.716 who didn't have that. I think that's why I practiced 0:14:16.756 --> 0:14:19.596 so much, because I really wanted to be in a band, 0:14:19.676 --> 0:14:22.156 but I couldn't do the natural thing. You know, Well, 0:14:22.196 --> 0:14:24.596 but you actually know what you're doing, But only because 0:14:24.636 --> 0:14:28.196 I've sat for a billion hours looking at charts and 0:14:28.236 --> 0:14:30.636 stuff like that, you know. I think that's cooler also 0:14:30.756 --> 0:14:32.476 the thing that you do, like, I feel like you 0:14:32.876 --> 0:14:37.476 get to relish the experience of having gotten good at something. 0:14:38.196 --> 0:14:39.876 I'm much better at singing than I was when I 0:14:39.956 --> 0:14:43.436 was six. But like it doesn't Oh is there no 0:14:43.556 --> 0:14:46.476 like moment? No, yeah, no, it's just the thing you do, 0:14:47.996 --> 0:14:55.076 so you never felt I've achieved this level of expertise. No, no, no, no, 0:14:55.436 --> 0:14:59.676 I don't think so maybe I can see that when 0:14:59.716 --> 0:15:02.236 you get your honorary degree from Berkeley. Oh my god, 0:15:03.196 --> 0:15:07.316 I hope you feel. Oh my god, last that you've got. 0:15:07.556 --> 0:15:11.436 Once you have that piece of paper exactly, then we'll know. Yeah, oh, 0:15:11.556 --> 0:15:13.796 what's going to happen. When that happens, that's gonna be 0:15:13.916 --> 0:15:20.676 great dance all around. Yeah, you're the you need the 0:15:20.756 --> 0:15:23.316 diploma you look from the Wizard of Oz. Yeah, yes, 0:15:23.796 --> 0:15:28.836 that's what you need. I love diplomas. Yeah. Uh, and Nick, 0:15:28.876 --> 0:15:32.196 you need a heart. Yeah, I'm kidding weirdly, I'm the 0:15:32.276 --> 0:15:35.636 one without a diploma, but yeah, it's true. Okay, So 0:15:36.116 --> 0:15:39.036 what was your musical experience, Grip? Oh my my dad's 0:15:39.036 --> 0:15:42.116 a really great manelin and guitar player. Um, and so 0:15:42.276 --> 0:15:44.236 we always were singing in the house and he taught 0:15:44.236 --> 0:15:45.636 me how to play a guitar when as a little kid, 0:15:45.636 --> 0:15:48.196 and I was just always excited about it, like I 0:15:48.316 --> 0:15:50.196 got you know, we could get into orchestra in like 0:15:50.276 --> 0:15:52.796 the fourth grade or whatever. And it was lucky enough 0:15:52.796 --> 0:15:54.276 to go to a public school it had a music 0:15:54.356 --> 0:16:00.836 program and Madison, Wisconsin. Okay, so that kind of opened. 0:16:00.956 --> 0:16:02.716 I mean, that was just like massive for me as 0:16:02.756 --> 0:16:05.316 a kid, you know, being able to being able to 0:16:05.396 --> 0:16:08.476 do that was was just crazy. So I like, you know, 0:16:09.356 --> 0:16:11.556 got into like I think it played like violin or 0:16:11.636 --> 0:16:15.716 something horribly. And then I started playing saxophone and ended 0:16:15.796 --> 0:16:18.956 up playing bass in the jazz band. I really loved that. 0:16:19.036 --> 0:16:21.196 And then when I went to college before dropping out, 0:16:22.276 --> 0:16:25.436 that was the composition major. Where was that? You to 0:16:25.516 --> 0:16:30.116 be Milwaukee? Okay? Yeah, And then we will have to 0:16:30.596 --> 0:16:35.916 describe your setup because this is electronic music and I'm 0:16:35.956 --> 0:16:38.716 looking at a table with a bunch of different modules. 0:16:39.116 --> 0:16:43.716 Oh yeah, including one that has many many patch chords 0:16:44.276 --> 0:16:46.596 running in or out. I don't know how to describe 0:16:46.636 --> 0:16:49.916 it except to say that if your breaker box at 0:16:49.996 --> 0:16:54.156 home looks like this, call an electrician. It's just an 0:16:54.236 --> 0:16:56.756 utter chaos up here. Tell me what you've got, and 0:16:56.996 --> 0:16:59.076 can you give me a sample two or two of 0:16:59.636 --> 0:17:02.556 the sounds you create? Yeah, so we have I kind 0:17:02.596 --> 0:17:04.476 of have this whole computer setup that has kind of 0:17:04.516 --> 0:17:07.516 all the individual little pieces of our songs, and it 0:17:07.636 --> 0:17:09.596 set up kind of in this like really a Abert 0:17:09.996 --> 0:17:13.596 DJ style, Like I'm DJing each individual little piece of 0:17:13.676 --> 0:17:16.716 a thing. So that's one side of it, and then 0:17:16.756 --> 0:17:19.516 I'm sampling Emilia's voice, and then I also have this 0:17:19.556 --> 0:17:21.956 whole other side that's all these other instruments. Uh, the 0:17:22.156 --> 0:17:24.356 the breaker Rocks who were referring to my modular synth 0:17:24.516 --> 0:17:27.316 is doing a bunch of drums and processing and stuff 0:17:27.356 --> 0:17:31.436 like that. Um, but it's all Actually, is that a 0:17:31.556 --> 0:17:34.156 mugue or I'm never sure if it's mug or moug No, 0:17:34.316 --> 0:17:35.956 there is a moge. I think it's I think it's 0:17:36.036 --> 0:17:38.716 mug it is. There's a mug in here. This thing 0:17:38.756 --> 0:17:46.396 called a d fan which sounds like this. It's this 0:17:46.476 --> 0:17:50.396 little like kind of does a lot of drums and 0:17:50.436 --> 0:17:54.316 stuff like that. Right, you know, it's all getting the 0:17:54.356 --> 0:17:57.396 clock from the computer. But then there's also all sorts 0:17:57.396 --> 0:17:58.956 of little drums in here. I've got this little thing 0:17:58.996 --> 0:18:06.116 that makes kind of a it's kind of weird little 0:18:06.156 --> 0:18:08.596 wavetable thing. All this is just to kind of bring 0:18:09.316 --> 0:18:13.196 like a live edge, and it's all things where I 0:18:13.196 --> 0:18:16.916 can replace something that's happening from the record, or alter 0:18:17.036 --> 0:18:19.796 it in some way, or stretch it out. I always 0:18:19.836 --> 0:18:22.636 like it when I see a show and it feels like, 0:18:25.036 --> 0:18:27.236 you know, there's this beautiful painted picture of the song 0:18:27.316 --> 0:18:29.076 as it was, and then you can go in and 0:18:29.156 --> 0:18:31.676 just kind of mess it all up and then try 0:18:31.716 --> 0:18:35.036 to snap it back into focus. So all the things 0:18:35.076 --> 0:18:36.836 are kind of leaning into trying to make something like 0:18:36.916 --> 0:18:38.796 that happen. I have this little sampler that I use 0:18:38.796 --> 0:18:41.396 all the time that's got, you know, pieces of Amelia's 0:18:41.436 --> 0:18:43.036 voice or pieces from the records that I can then 0:18:43.116 --> 0:18:45.596 kind of pitch all around. Now, are you ever sampling 0:18:45.676 --> 0:18:49.196 her voice live? Yeah, when she's singing. Oh yeah, you're 0:18:49.236 --> 0:18:52.556 sampling as well? And then yeah, definitely Amelia is that 0:18:52.996 --> 0:18:56.236 does he often surprise you? He's suddenly your voice. You're 0:18:56.276 --> 0:18:59.276 hearing your voice in a way you didn't expect. Yeah. 0:18:59.276 --> 0:19:00.996 I usually had to keep pretty low in my mix 0:19:01.036 --> 0:19:04.036 because if you're if a voice comes in while you're singing, 0:19:04.156 --> 0:19:08.396 it can pull you off pitch. But Nick is able 0:19:08.516 --> 0:19:12.636 to sample anything that I say. Wow, I would say, 0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:14.996 it's a it's a good thing. You guys get along 0:19:15.076 --> 0:19:17.876 so well. It really he wanted to mess you up. 0:19:18.476 --> 0:19:21.156 He really could. He could mess you up in a heartbeat. 0:19:21.516 --> 0:19:24.116 And then you sometimes use a drum machine on stage? 0:19:24.196 --> 0:19:26.276 Is that right? I do it sometimes, But honestly, I 0:19:26.356 --> 0:19:29.516 really like when we're live. I'm like being able to 0:19:29.756 --> 0:19:32.716 sing and connect directly with the crowd and with Nick 0:19:32.956 --> 0:19:36.556 and have that be my role. And Nick, you are 0:19:36.596 --> 0:19:39.156 playing this like a DJ. You don't have a keyboard, 0:19:39.716 --> 0:19:42.556 a traditional well, I do, you know? I do? Normally, 0:19:42.596 --> 0:19:44.596 we didn't bring it today because we weren't playing any 0:19:44.636 --> 0:19:46.076 songs that needed it. But I have. I have this 0:19:46.196 --> 0:19:48.996 one synthesizer that I use a lot, but none of 0:19:49.076 --> 0:19:52.156 it even that it isn't getting I don't know what 0:19:52.196 --> 0:19:54.876 it's all live, you know, I'm playing little or peggios 0:19:54.876 --> 0:19:58.036 and stuff over the tops of the songs. But yeah, 0:19:58.116 --> 0:20:00.476 most of it is just this kind of more abstract 0:20:01.316 --> 0:20:03.156 way of thinking about it, which is my That's just 0:20:03.276 --> 0:20:05.996 my favorite. I like it when something feels a little 0:20:05.996 --> 0:20:08.716 bit more like an idea maybe than an instrument, if 0:20:08.756 --> 0:20:11.636 that makes sense. How does that? How did you discover 0:20:11.796 --> 0:20:17.236 that then? After playing guitar, after playing bass, after playing mandolin, 0:20:18.156 --> 0:20:21.476 in which you're locked into fairly traditional role. Yeah, what 0:20:22.196 --> 0:20:27.996 was your first encounter with electronic music and what do 0:20:28.036 --> 0:20:30.836 you remember what grabbed you? I think a big thing 0:20:30.916 --> 0:20:33.436 for me was when I was playing in the jazz 0:20:33.476 --> 0:20:36.356 band and I was about to go to college. I 0:20:36.556 --> 0:20:40.036 kind of had this realization that if I was going 0:20:40.076 --> 0:20:41.556 to keep doing what I was doing, I was going 0:20:41.596 --> 0:20:43.996 to be practicing like eight hours a day to just 0:20:44.556 --> 0:20:48.556 try to be a middle level jazz player. And I 0:20:48.676 --> 0:20:52.076 think I kind of started realizing that the idea of 0:20:52.196 --> 0:20:54.436 what was happening was so much more interesting to me 0:20:54.676 --> 0:20:57.596 than what I thought I had to say as a player, 0:20:58.476 --> 0:21:02.076 and so that I leaned into that, and I moved 0:21:02.076 --> 0:21:04.276 into composition and started going that way, and I think 0:21:04.476 --> 0:21:07.796 electronic music was just a natural extension of that. It 0:21:07.876 --> 0:21:09.556 was like, okay, like I've been, well, I've been in 0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:13.556 this role playing bass and kind of filling this spot 0:21:13.636 --> 0:21:16.396 within a band, and that's its own skill set. But 0:21:16.516 --> 0:21:18.356 with electronic music, it was like, well, how do I 0:21:18.476 --> 0:21:21.756 put this whole piece together? What does this full picture 0:21:21.836 --> 0:21:25.916 look like? And that's just became way more interesting because 0:21:25.916 --> 0:21:28.276 I could be the whole band, you know, and I 0:21:28.356 --> 0:21:31.236 could try things out without worrying about wasting anyone else's time. 0:21:31.556 --> 0:21:34.316 There's no set way to do it, and so everybody 0:21:34.316 --> 0:21:37.756 who gets into it is kind of reinventing their own 0:21:37.796 --> 0:21:40.836 wheel in a way, and that to me is really exciting. 0:21:40.916 --> 0:21:43.196 I love thinking about like systems and how something could 0:21:43.236 --> 0:21:46.956 work to me. One of the things that's interesting about 0:21:46.996 --> 0:21:49.196 your music you mentioned you came in with a chorus 0:21:49.956 --> 0:21:56.476 first on this is you move from ideas very quickly. 0:21:56.516 --> 0:21:58.276 If you were if you were in a big band 0:21:58.916 --> 0:22:01.676 or the kind of bands you grew up with, you 0:22:01.716 --> 0:22:03.916 would be you guys would get a groove and then 0:22:03.996 --> 0:22:06.796 someone would be soloing. But it's very much about kind 0:22:06.796 --> 0:22:10.356 of finding that one thing and finding people playing over it. This. 0:22:10.596 --> 0:22:14.276 You move very quickly from peace to idea to idea, 0:22:14.836 --> 0:22:17.596 and just when I think, oh, you know, I like this, 0:22:18.036 --> 0:22:20.876 and then it veers into something else. Is that just 0:22:20.956 --> 0:22:23.956 part of playing electronic music for you? I think we 0:22:24.156 --> 0:22:29.196 definitely love surprising each other, and I think that leaks 0:22:29.276 --> 0:22:33.196 is lean into contrasts, you know, So I think generally speaking, 0:22:33.316 --> 0:22:35.636 we love having things that feel like there's a bunch 0:22:35.676 --> 0:22:39.036 of hard left turns being made and that feels really engaging. 0:22:39.476 --> 0:22:42.236 But it's also pop music, so every part that appears 0:22:42.356 --> 0:22:46.556 usually comes back, unless it's the bridge, So if it veers, 0:22:46.796 --> 0:22:49.676 usually it returns once more. That's I think the most 0:22:49.716 --> 0:22:51.796 interesting part too, is like seeing how hard of a 0:22:51.876 --> 0:22:55.356 turn you can make and still make it make sense 0:22:55.396 --> 0:22:57.396 that you got back where he started, Yeah, and live 0:22:57.476 --> 0:23:01.436 inside the pop music structure. And maybe that's maybe when 0:23:01.476 --> 0:23:03.836 I said high wire earlier, maybe that's what it is. 0:23:04.236 --> 0:23:06.516 That is like jazz and that like how far can 0:23:06.596 --> 0:23:08.476 this guy go on a solo or how far can 0:23:08.516 --> 0:23:10.916 she go on al Yeah? Is she gonna be able 0:23:10.916 --> 0:23:12.756 to find her way back? Is always kind of the 0:23:13.156 --> 0:23:16.636 fascinating question. I love that idea too, of like communicating 0:23:16.876 --> 0:23:22.476 intent to the listener, like figuring out ways to show 0:23:22.556 --> 0:23:24.436 them that they can trust you to make their make 0:23:24.476 --> 0:23:26.076 your way back, or that you're not just going to 0:23:26.156 --> 0:23:28.316 waste their time. We think about that a lot, with 0:23:28.436 --> 0:23:31.556 things like how can we design a song or a 0:23:31.676 --> 0:23:36.676 recording that shows somebody that we made this wild choice 0:23:36.796 --> 0:23:40.156 on purpose so that next time we do, you know 0:23:40.316 --> 0:23:42.836 that we're not gonna fake you out like we're gonna 0:23:43.036 --> 0:23:46.756 This is all like an equation, like we're getting somewhere. 0:23:47.436 --> 0:23:50.356 We'll be right back with more from Bruce Headlam, Amelia Meath, 0:23:50.676 --> 0:23:58.476 and Nick Sanboy. We're back with more of Bruce's conversation 0:23:58.836 --> 0:24:02.676 with Amelia and Nick. Now, Amelia, was your first encounter 0:24:02.876 --> 0:24:07.996 with electronic music when you guys met oh No I've 0:24:07.996 --> 0:24:10.196 always been a fan of a like music. Okay, what 0:24:11.036 --> 0:24:14.116 in particular was you know? What did you like? Yeah? 0:24:14.156 --> 0:24:20.076 I started with Elo naturally, and then got more excited 0:24:20.116 --> 0:24:24.036 about the the independent music of the early ADTs, you know, 0:24:24.116 --> 0:24:29.756 Animal Collective, Caribou, Fortet, just the people who were popular 0:24:29.876 --> 0:24:32.396 or interesting when I was like a little baby going 0:24:32.436 --> 0:24:37.356 to shows. And then when and when Nick and I met, 0:24:37.436 --> 0:24:40.436 it was the first opportunity I'd had. I thought to 0:24:40.556 --> 0:24:45.116 find a collaborator with whom I could make pop music. Now, 0:24:45.636 --> 0:24:47.676 there is the story that the first time you met 0:24:47.796 --> 0:24:50.956 you asked him to arrange a song that you had written. 0:24:51.156 --> 0:24:53.956 Is that true? Yeah? It was a song that was 0:24:54.036 --> 0:24:57.196 for Mountain Man, and I wanted to do a remix album, 0:24:57.956 --> 0:25:00.556 and so I asked Nick. And that was the first 0:25:00.556 --> 0:25:06.316 time you'd met. Shortly thereafter, yeah, shortly thereafter, yeah, because 0:25:06.356 --> 0:25:10.476 he opened for us in Milwaukee at the Cactus Club. 0:25:10.876 --> 0:25:12.876 And when we became friends on Twitter, it was like 0:25:12.996 --> 0:25:14.796 the early days of Twitter when it was nice to 0:25:14.876 --> 0:25:17.556 be on there. It was like when you could like 0:25:17.676 --> 0:25:20.556 make friends and stuff. Yeah, it was nice. We had 0:25:20.636 --> 0:25:22.196 followed each other on Twitter for a little while, and 0:25:22.196 --> 0:25:25.916 I asked Nick for a remix of that song, mostly 0:25:25.916 --> 0:25:28.156 because so many of Mountain Man's the arrangements that I 0:25:28.156 --> 0:25:32.036 would do for Mountain Men were naturally quite sparse, and 0:25:32.156 --> 0:25:35.956