Speaker 1: Hi, This is Milan Vervier and this is Kim Azzarelli.
Speaker 1: We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Speaker 1: Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose, and you're listening to
Speaker 1: Seneca's conversations on power and Purpose. Welcome to this special edition.
Speaker 1: This new six part series called Getting to Equal will
Speaker 1: change the way you think about women and leadership, and
Speaker 1: it comes at a time when women's leadership has never
Speaker 1: been more crucial. We have two amazing leaders who are
Speaker 1: guest hosting these six episodes, Carol and Tastad, Group President
Speaker 1: North America and Deiana Bass, vice President Global Diversity, Equality
Speaker 1: and Inclusion, both from PNG, one of the largest consumer
Speaker 1: goods companies in the world. Together, Caroline and Deiana have
Speaker 1: created an impressive gender equality strategy for PNG, and it's
Speaker 1: a strategy that's really breaking new ground on these issues
Speaker 1: in the private sector. In today's episode of Getting to Equal,
Speaker 1: Caroline Indianna discuss how each of us can use our
Speaker 1: own unique voice, really our own superpower to make progress
Speaker 1: towards equality. Their guest today is the incredible Madonna Badger,
Speaker 1: the legendary advertising executive. Carolin and Diana, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining us again today. I am really looking forward
Speaker 1: to the conversation with Madonna. Thank you, Kim. So today
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about finding your superpower, and we're
Speaker 1: going to talk to someone who has certainly found hers.
Speaker 1: So what do we mean by finding your superpower? Well,
Speaker 1: it's finding that place where each of us, as individuals,
Speaker 1: as companies or organizations of any kind can have the
Speaker 1: greatest impact and then take action to accelerate progress for
Speaker 1: all people in the workplace and frankly, in the world.
Speaker 1: You know that's so right, Diana. We all have superpowers,
Speaker 1: large and small, and we know that we make the
Speaker 1: most progress for equality when we all decided to get
Speaker 1: in the game. We started thinking about this really in
Speaker 1: the very beginning when we were defining our overall strategy
Speaker 1: for gender equality at p AND. We knew we had
Speaker 1: to be very choiceful in defining the work that we
Speaker 1: would do. We knew we had to be intentional to
Speaker 1: have the greatest impact, and we chose three areas to
Speaker 1: focus on. One was using our voice in advertising to
Speaker 1: tackle bias and speak up. Two was using our influence
Speaker 1: to ensure access to education and economic opportunities for girls
Speaker 1: and women. And finally, ensuring that at p AND we
Speaker 1: built a workplace that would enable women to thrive, to
Speaker 1: bring to life our aspiration for representation at all levels
Speaker 1: with multicultural representation in the US, and we know that
Speaker 1: when we access our superpowers, we can raise the bar
Speaker 1: and we can build a better world for all women
Speaker 1: and all men, equality for all individuals in however they
Speaker 1: define themselves. Joining us for this conversation is a woman
Speaker 1: dubbed the Lioness Who Roared. Thirty year advertising veteran and
Speaker 1: founder of hashtag Women Not Objects, Madonna Badger is founder
Speaker 1: and chief creative officer of Badger and Winters. After a
Speaker 1: pivotal announcement that the agency would no longer create work
Speaker 1: that objectified women, Badger and Winters took home Advertising Ages
Speaker 1: coveted Small Agency of the Year award in two thousand sixteen. Recently,
Speaker 1: add Week named Madonna a disruptor for spearheading a revolution
Speaker 1: in the advertising industry, and the four A's recognized her
Speaker 1: as one of the one hundred people who make advertising great.
Speaker 1: I am so thrilled and happy to introduce you to
Speaker 1: our friend, a creative partner of ours, Madonna Badger. It's
Speaker 1: so great to be here. Thank you. It's such a
Speaker 1: nice introduction. It is so great to have you hear
Speaker 1: mad on it. I can think of no one better
Speaker 1: to talk about using their own superpower to eradicate bias
Speaker 1: and advance equality. During these podcasts, we've been speaking with
Speaker 1: extraordinary individuals who have amazing platforms, all using their voices
Speaker 1: and their influence to accelerate progress for women. And you
Speaker 1: know we love Badger and Winters. But for those who
Speaker 1: are listening and who don't know your agency, tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about it well at Badgroom Winters UM
Speaker 1: and Jim Winters is my business partner and has been
Speaker 1: for the last sixteen years. Our idea is to build
Speaker 1: a brave agency culture that helps others create brave brands,
Speaker 1: and that this focus on brave and purposeful work has
Speaker 1: really attracted a group of talented, passionate, and very diverse
Speaker 1: people That makes us incredibly proud. These individuals are inspired
Speaker 1: by the way our open, supportive and collaborative culture helps
Speaker 1: them to thrive. This also helps us to attract the
Speaker 1: kind of clients that we want to have. Clients like
Speaker 1: Ola who is with Rocktern Gamble of course UM, clients
Speaker 1: like Rice is where we did hashtag no Kids in
Speaker 1: cages UM and also doing our own work like hashtag
Speaker 1: women not Objects. I love that you brought up women
Speaker 1: uh not objects, so I want to start there. That
Speaker 1: was UM in two thousand and sixteen. I believe that
Speaker 1: you launched that campaign importantly. It put a spotlight on
Speaker 1: widespread objectification of women in advertising and frankly helped open
Speaker 1: a multi year dialogue and the advertising industry about its
Speaker 1: responsibility to ethically represent women in all forms of advertising.
Speaker 1: Hashtag women not Objects has had over thirty one million
Speaker 1: views on YouTube and Facebook in over a hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy five countries. That's just amazing. So tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about women not objects. Well, women not Objects
Speaker 1: was created to really help people see the way that
Speaker 1: women were objectified and add all around them an outdoor
Speaker 1: on television, uh, in print, in fashion, in alcohol and liquor,
Speaker 1: in UM, in every industry, in every way, in every medium, UM,
Speaker 1: women were being objectified. And what do I mean by that?
Speaker 1: I mean that they were treated as a prop a
Speaker 1: body part, so super sensual used to sell you know,
Speaker 1: a ball of the CARDI or I've even seen it
Speaker 1: for a grocery store, UM with a cattoop and then
Speaker 1: the other is plastic, so really retouched beyond human recognition.
Speaker 1: I've got a great example of women not objects. It
Speaker 1: was Christmas, um and fifth Avenue, and on this billboard
Speaker 1: were three young women. Um. They were completely naked. Um.
Speaker 1: They all had the exact same pair of shoes on.
Speaker 1: They were like retouched so that their bodies all looked
Speaker 1: the same, their skin all looked the same, basically, And
Speaker 1: it was such an incredible way to objectify um, these
Speaker 1: three very powerful supermodels. UM. And I just couldn't believe
Speaker 1: how many people were walking by with their children and
Speaker 1: sort of not even thinking about it. That has huge
Speaker 1: impact on young girls when they see stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You've also done films about that as well. Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1: In our In our second film we did, it was
Speaker 1: all about the harm and there were teenage girls, um
Speaker 1: taking cellophane and wrapping around their thighs as many times
Speaker 1: as they could, um, so that you know they had
Speaker 1: they would get a thigh gap. UM. And you know,
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but put those sort of two things together,
Speaker 1: These three women on if Avenue in every magazine and
Speaker 1: you know, these young girls trying to get a flag up.
Speaker 1: You know, the other thing that Um that you did
Speaker 1: that I thought was amazing is that you showed children advertisements. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean they were only outdoor ads, so they were
Speaker 1: ads that children could presumably see anyway. So we showed
Speaker 1: them those outdoor ads. And you know, one girl said,
Speaker 1: it makes me feel bad about my body when seeing like,
Speaker 1: you know, a half naked lady Gaga ad or. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, one little boy said, it's private. You know
Speaker 1: that's private. You're not supposed to show that part. And
Speaker 1: you know, it made them feel less than and it
Speaker 1: made them feel like it was a secret, private world
Speaker 1: that little children aren't supposed to be a part of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's the one little boy that said, I'm uncomfortable with this.
Speaker 1: I don't want to look at it anymore. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: This was a real labor of love for you, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: So I had just come back from my hiatus um
Speaker 1: where you know, as you all well know, my um
Speaker 1: children Lily, Sarah and Grace and my parents all died
Speaker 1: in a fire on Christmas Day. So I came back
Speaker 1: to my agency and I knew I wanted to do something.
Speaker 1: I wanted to do something with purpose. Um. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to just sell stuff anymore. You know. I wanted
Speaker 1: to find something to say um because on my hiatus
Speaker 1: I had tried uh selling antique sofas with my friend Kate.
Speaker 1: It was told disaster. So I knew that I was
Speaker 1: really good at advertising. So I wanted to do something
Speaker 1: that was good for the world. We made a move,
Speaker 1: a little film, and it went viral really quickly. But
Speaker 1: the place I really wanted to go and the place
Speaker 1: I really wanted everybody to see it was it Can
Speaker 1: just for the audience here because and not everybody will
Speaker 1: know why is CAN so important. CAM was important to
Speaker 1: me because this is where all of the international creative
Speaker 1: directors come, and so do clients, and so do you know,
Speaker 1: brand managers and strategists. But it was really the creative
Speaker 1: directors that I wanted to get in front of because
Speaker 1: I felt like if they could see this film, if
Speaker 1: they could understand the harm that they were causing young women,
Speaker 1: you know, little girls one in four who had you
Speaker 1: know at this point, who had been on a diet
Speaker 1: um by the age of eleven in the US. You know,
Speaker 1: just horrific stuff that um that happens, especially to children,
Speaker 1: that if they could see what what I what I
Speaker 1: was talking about, if they could hear or if they
Speaker 1: could understand that, they wouldn't want to cause any harm
Speaker 1: to anybody. And so that's why it was, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was so important to us that Jim
Speaker 1: and I faked a business trip to London so we
Speaker 1: could meet with the can Lion people. Like, we're here
Speaker 1: for a client, so we're just worrying. Could we like
Speaker 1: come over and talk to you a little bit more
Speaker 1: about this hashtag women do objects things? Can you tell
Speaker 1: people what can Lions are. Can Lions are the international
Speaker 1: oscars of advertising. They are the be all end all,
Speaker 1: They create the most coveted prize and um. And so
Speaker 1: my number one goal was for them to see it.
Speaker 1: And then the number two goal was to get the
Speaker 1: jury rules changed. UM, so as you know it can
Speaker 1: juries make decisions about what pieces of war will be awarded. Now,
Speaker 1: the rules are that if you objectify a woman or man,
Speaker 1: or you know, anybody in an ad, you are automatically disqualified.
Speaker 1: Your piece of work is automatically thrown out. And that's
Speaker 1: a huge, huge intervention that was made, and that was
Speaker 1: made honestly a very short time ago. We talked about
Speaker 1: system changes to help us get to where we accurately
Speaker 1: and authentically portray people in advertising. Absolutely. Yeah, Madonna, I
Speaker 1: want to echo what Caroline is saying. It is really
Speaker 1: incredible what you're doing. It can and the fact that
Speaker 1: you're impacting an entire industry that is really hard. I
Speaker 1: mean that is a superpower. And the fact that you
Speaker 1: are leading a change that makes sure there are little
Speaker 1: girls out there seeing things that are unattainable to them
Speaker 1: and thinking that they're supposed to be something that they
Speaker 1: can never be. That is amazing. Madonna. Yeah, Madonna, so
Speaker 1: so true. It's it's just incredible. Thank you. It felt
Speaker 1: really good. We'll be back after this break, Madonna. When
Speaker 1: we saw your Women Not Objects campaign, we knew that
Speaker 1: you were the person and the creative agency that we
Speaker 1: wanted to work with on our global gender equality campaign,
Speaker 1: someone who would help us tell a story in a
Speaker 1: really compelling way. And your idea for the campaign was
Speaker 1: we See Equal, and we loved it from the first
Speaker 1: time we saw it, so tell us about we See Equal. Basically,
Speaker 1: it came from the idea that gender is a human
Speaker 1: construct and that um, everything that we portrayed together and
Speaker 1: we See Equal has no gender, So the and why
Speaker 1: is that important? Because that's where stereotypes are born. Diapers,
Speaker 1: you know, equal women, uh, supposedly, households yours, equal women,
Speaker 1: supposedly men equal head of household, women equals love, and
Speaker 1: so all of those um constructs. We turned on the
Speaker 1: ted and we said love doesn't care who gives it,
Speaker 1: households don't care who run them, diapers don't care who
Speaker 1: changed them. And we did the whole thing with YouTube
Speaker 1: or found footage UM to show real people living their
Speaker 1: real lives um doing the sort of things that we
Speaker 1: all do in our lives. But we flipped the script
Speaker 1: on every single person that we showed. Anyway, it was
Speaker 1: really the beginning of a great journey for for all
Speaker 1: of for me for sure, I'll say for us as well,
Speaker 1: and a journey that continues. So you know that film
Speaker 1: that we see equal film is just as relevant today
Speaker 1: as it was three years ago. And I love the
Speaker 1: way you say it's about flipping the script because one
Speaker 1: of the things that we keep encountering is these myths,
Speaker 1: these false narratives that are still alive in the world,
Speaker 1: and they still get perpetuated, and we have to be
Speaker 1: very overt in helping people see that that's not the
Speaker 1: reality of our world. But we have to stop giving
Speaker 1: them air. And you know, we talk a lot about
Speaker 1: the impact that advertising can have in our world. As
Speaker 1: you know, Madonna P ANDNG is the world's largest advertiser,
Speaker 1: and we know that we can have a really big
Speaker 1: impact with our voice and that's why we call it
Speaker 1: our superpower. And we've committed to use our voice in
Speaker 1: advertising and all other media to really tackle bias and
Speaker 1: to speak out on issues that are important to us,
Speaker 1: important to our employees, and important to all the people
Speaker 1: that buy our products. And we know that advertising can
Speaker 1: spark conversations, it can create dialogue that really changes mindset.
Speaker 1: You know, are Always Like a Girl campaign is a
Speaker 1: great example of that. Right when we started that campaign,
Speaker 1: only nineteen percent of those that we herbeyed thought that
Speaker 1: the expression like a girl stood for something positive. It
Speaker 1: was really seen as a derogatory comment, Oh you do
Speaker 1: this like a girl today? And this is really only
Speaker 1: five years after that. For Super Bowl ad more than
Speaker 1: people associate the phrase like a girl with something positive,
Speaker 1: with something empowering. So from over eight in five years,
Speaker 1: that's changing mindsets. And you know, Madonna, you and I.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about how advertising has changed, right,
Speaker 1: how consumers expectation of advertising has changed, making it really
Speaker 1: important for brands and companies to speak out or have
Speaker 1: a voice on these kind of issues, on what's happening
Speaker 1: in a world today. Why is this so important? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean you know, this year, UM, you guys won
Speaker 1: Marketer of the Decade at can Lion, and I think
Speaker 1: you know it's beak because you have been the world's
Speaker 1: leader of understanding the need for transparency, for change, for
Speaker 1: ending gender bias, for using your voice to be a
Speaker 1: force of good in this world. And you know I
Speaker 1: watch you guys, and you have been such a driving
Speaker 1: force for gender equity, UM, from not only we see equal,
Speaker 1: but to all of the different initiatives that you've put
Speaker 1: through at P and G. So nobody really knows more
Speaker 1: than you guys of the power of connection, UM, the
Speaker 1: power of connection based on empathy and love. So I
Speaker 1: think that you guys truly understand that six of the
Speaker 1: United States believes that companies are where the power for
Speaker 1: change will come from, not governments. UM. And so you know,
Speaker 1: as the world's largest advertiser, where you have taken the
Speaker 1: world with the advertising that you support and taking the
Speaker 1: risks has made all advertisers have to rise with that tide.
Speaker 1: And I think that's, you know, a miracle. I really
Speaker 1: really do. I think it's a miracle. Um. I never
Speaker 1: dreamt that I would see anything like that in my lifetime. Um,
Speaker 1: from when I was, you know, fifteen years old watching
Speaker 1: Melrose Place want to move to New York City. So uh, anyway,
Speaker 1: it's it's a joy and it and you and obviously
Speaker 1: it's what every generation needs is for brands to be brave,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. One of the things that we kind
Speaker 1: of hold as a mission of ours is to drive
Speaker 1: the accurate and authentic portrayal of all people in our advertising.
Speaker 1: So that means, you know, multicultural people represented authentically. It
Speaker 1: means showing dad's changing diapers because that's what they do.
Speaker 1: It means showing men doing dishes and cleaning the floors.
Speaker 1: It means showcasing like multigenerational and blended family, same sex couples,
Speaker 1: single parents, single parent households, people with disabilities. Um. And
Speaker 1: it means showing women who look like real women. So
Speaker 1: authenticity is very important to us, and you have been
Speaker 1: an important partner in that mission with us. So why
Speaker 1: is authenticity today so important in your mind? UM? Well,
Speaker 1: I can say for the brand UM, which I've worked
Speaker 1: on for about three years now. UM, you know, just
Speaker 1: recently we made it a no retouching brand, so nothing
Speaker 1: on the face gets retouched, which is an extraordinary move.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody gets zits if you have it on
Speaker 1: our set on that day, it's going to be shown
Speaker 1: because it's real and it's authentic. And I think that
Speaker 1: people are so awareness now of because the world is
Speaker 1: so transparent um in many many ways, people are so
Speaker 1: aware of false messages and false hope. Young women especially
Speaker 1: want to be authentic, want to be want to be
Speaker 1: accepted as their authentic selves. That's why we see body
Speaker 1: positivity is such a huge part of the world. It's
Speaker 1: why you know, we see diversity as being absolutely must
Speaker 1: have because we are all equal. I think the future,
Speaker 1: I think coming out of COVID, coming out of a
Speaker 1: very painful real time, will make us want to be
Speaker 1: even more real with one another, tell the truth to
Speaker 1: one another. I think. I think that's so well said.
Speaker 1: And I think authenticity is um as you say, what
Speaker 1: people aspire to. And I think when when you don't
Speaker 1: have it. You know, the flip side is of the
Speaker 1: words and the pictures don't match, whether it's in the
Speaker 1: issue that you're standing up for or how you're portraying
Speaker 1: people in the advertising. Um. In today's world, you get
Speaker 1: called on that as we should, right because consumers, uh,
Speaker 1: society communities today are holding us to a hired standard.
Speaker 1: And I think that's so good for all of us.
Speaker 1: So yes, that's that's what authenticity can provide. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the other things we talked about system changes
Speaker 1: and the need for system changes to really advance progress.
Speaker 1: And another change that's really important in advertising is equal
Speaker 1: representation in the creative supply chain. So so not only
Speaker 1: in front of the camera, who are we filming and
Speaker 1: what are we developing in the content of our campaigns,
Speaker 1: but behind the camera and making sure that uh, in
Speaker 1: our in our company, in the agencies that we work
Speaker 1: with on the creative with the directors and producers behind
Speaker 1: the camera, were really aspiring for a quality and full
Speaker 1: intersectional equality. Uh. Now, as you said at p and
Speaker 1: you know, we've we've made some great progress there. We've
Speaker 1: got a fifty fifty brand team across our company. We've
Speaker 1: got fifty fifty representation at the major agencies, the creative
Speaker 1: agencies that we work with and in North America behind
Speaker 1: the camera, more than half of our ads are directed
Speaker 1: by women. So progress, uh, progress, But we're not done
Speaker 1: and we have a little bit more to do. But
Speaker 1: that's certainly been an important driver for us. I think
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right. So much of our focus was the
Speaker 1: front of what happened, but now it is more the
Speaker 1: focuses on who's behind the camera well, and and we
Speaker 1: know in many cases it delivers such a better result, right, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: that's part of It's the end to end, it delivers
Speaker 1: such a great result and free the BID I think
Speaker 1: has been a huge part of that. Um. There are
Speaker 1: other organizations that have been a big part of it.
Speaker 1: Are super Bowl ad this year, UM for l A UM,
Speaker 1: which I can't believe I had a Super Bowl this year.
Speaker 1: But UM, anyway, we isn't that amazing? Yeah, it just
Speaker 1: feels like what and but we had more than fift
Speaker 1: behind the camera. UM. Our editor was female, our our
Speaker 1: executive producer was female. Director obviously was female. UM. On
Speaker 1: my side of the table, everybody was female except for
Speaker 1: one man. And it felt incredible. To have so many
Speaker 1: women create such a big, big ad. So, Madonna, you
Speaker 1: know that the advertising industry is still one of the
Speaker 1: industries that is largely seen as a man's industry still today. Um.
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a study done by the Gina Davis
Speaker 1: Institute that found across some two thousand advertisements that they
Speaker 1: looked at, only one third of the roles in any
Speaker 1: advertisement went to women. They also found that women had
Speaker 1: signal efficantly lass screen time um, and that they spoke
Speaker 1: about less than men did in terms of the dialogue
Speaker 1: and commercials. The other conclusion that they found, which I
Speaker 1: thought was really interesting and it's obvious but still interesting,
Speaker 1: is that just putting more women in commercials and giving
Speaker 1: them more speaking parts is not going to solve the
Speaker 1: problem in the industry. That it was the teams behind
Speaker 1: the advertising that had to change. So what that means
Speaker 1: is more creative officers, more women writing scripts, and more
Speaker 1: women directing them. That's another example of a real system
Speaker 1: change that needs to happen. Well, you know what does
Speaker 1: this mean for women of color, for multicultural women, because
Speaker 1: that that also becomes that's even harder. It's such a
Speaker 1: problem for how things work because it just doesn't get
Speaker 1: us the best product, It doesn't give us the best outcome,
Speaker 1: the best messaging, the best creative, the best advertising, because
Speaker 1: we're just under utilizing all the talent that's of eliable
Speaker 1: to us. You know, we just did an led job
Speaker 1: and we hired a young black woman as our photographer
Speaker 1: and a young Latina director. We knew that we wanted
Speaker 1: women of color to do this job for us, and
Speaker 1: we were not going to take no for an answer.
Speaker 1: I don't know any other way than to try and
Speaker 1: support these young up and coming multicultural women. Speaking of that, Madonna,
Speaker 1: developing up and coming multicultural women in advertising. Tell us
Speaker 1: about see it be It, So see it be It is.
Speaker 1: Um the can Lions mentoring program for young women creatives,
Speaker 1: and um, they come from all over the world, and um,
Speaker 1: I'm the ambassador right now. So oh no, I'm the chairperson.
Speaker 1: I don't know they have all these titles. You're important
Speaker 1: in this very important. I am very I'm like an
Speaker 1: uber mentee mentor at this point. But anyway, the point
Speaker 1: is is that mentorship is really, in so many ways
Speaker 1: the answer to breaking down systems, because that one on
Speaker 1: one relationship teaches me so much about the young What
Speaker 1: these young women need, UM, how who I am and
Speaker 1: how I can give it, UM, what I know and
Speaker 1: what I can say, and then what I don't know,
Speaker 1: and and they can answer for me. You know. It's
Speaker 1: such a two way street, and I think my benefit
Speaker 1: is way greater than their's. That's a great program, and
Speaker 1: they are some of the luckiest women in advertising to
Speaker 1: be coached and mentored by you, and they worked hard
Speaker 1: to get there, I mean really hard. There you go. Well, Madonna,
Speaker 1: it's been great, and you're such a good friend and
Speaker 1: such an extraordinary visionary and you're such a good role
Speaker 1: model for using your platform for good. So I have
Speaker 1: a final question for you, and it's a two part question.
Speaker 1: What do we need to tackle next for gender equality
Speaker 1: and within the advertising industry? What's the next frontier? I
Speaker 1: I really think that in order for our country and
Speaker 1: our economy to grow, we have to take on childcare
Speaker 1: and what that means to working women UM in this country.
Speaker 1: Once that is solved and universal childcare actually happens, that
Speaker 1: is when we will have true equality. You're exactly right.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you said that. We have talked
Speaker 1: about this many times in this podcast. We will not
Speaker 1: have equality in the workplace until we have equality at home.
Speaker 1: And given that women take a disproportionate responsibility for home
Speaker 1: and family, universal childcare would be a huge accelerator for equality. Yes,
Speaker 1: it trans sends everything. It's universal in the industry. I
Speaker 1: think what's next is that? UM, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think it's it's such a hard time. UM. I think
Speaker 1: that really what's next. And when I've been really lucky
Speaker 1: to work on is brand relevancy and brand reputation. UM.
Speaker 1: I think that is you know, what people truly want
Speaker 1: and is what really does make it really does make
Speaker 1: a huge difference. UM within you know, whatever industry that
Speaker 1: you're working in. I think that's exactly right. And uh, Madonna,
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you for using your
Speaker 1: superpower to change the world through your platform, whether it's advertising, creative,
Speaker 1: your ideas. Um and and frankly you're mentoring, you know,
Speaker 1: helping to bring other people into this field and let
Speaker 1: their voices be heard as well. So it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks for spending time with us, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: What a great and powerful conversation. We all owe a
Speaker 1: huge thanks to Madonna Badger for working to change an
Speaker 1: entire industry, and for ensuring that commercials and ads portray
Speaker 1: women truthfully and authentically. Here are some of the key
Speaker 1: points that I got out of a conversation. First, media,
Speaker 1: as we know it is one of the most powerful
Speaker 1: influences in our lives, which is why we need to
Speaker 1: hold advertisers and producers accountable for what they show. If
Speaker 1: we want to get to equal, we need to make
Speaker 1: sure that advertising depicts women as they truly are, as leaders,
Speaker 1: as contributors, powerful and three dimensional. And as Madonna reminds us,
Speaker 1: we all have the ability to advance progress, each of
Speaker 1: us in our own way. For Madonna, that meant using
Speaker 1: her experience in advertising to change the way women are
Speaker 1: portrayed no longer as objects, but it's actual human beings.
Speaker 1: You can see Madonna's groundbreaking video at Women Not Objects
Speaker 1: dot com and you can check out We See Equal
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Now. This is the final episode in our
Speaker 1: special six part series Getting to Equal, and I want
Speaker 1: to thanks Caroline Taskdat and Deianna Bass for guest hosting
Speaker 1: and for showing how we can all help to make
Speaker 1: progress towards equality. You can listen to all six episodes
Speaker 1: of Getting to Equal on Seneca's Conversations on power and purpose.
Speaker 1: Have a great day. You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations
Speaker 1: on power and purpose, brought to you by the Seneca
Speaker 1: Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from
Speaker 1: founding partner. If you'd like to join the Seneca Women Network,
Speaker 1: go to Seneca Women dot com. There you'll get access
Speaker 1: to exclusive events and workshops, plus updates on new podcasts
Speaker 1: and other opportunities to get involved. Four