1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: My from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Chin is something that actually united Republican the Democrats. We 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: have a huge problem with cybersecurity and its growing. We've 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: got to have wealthier people and corporations between more of 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: a fair share. Bloomberg Sound on, the insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: the insights, pars and Biden likes to be the big thing. 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: He likes to put out the big concept. There's still 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: a long way to go with this flat tax. We 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: have to break Parks months. This is a Democrat Republican. 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: This is an American issue. Schloomberg Sound On with Joe 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. All right, I'm Jack Fitzpatrick here 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: co hosting with Emily Wilkins, my fellow Bloomberg government reporter. 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: We're in for Joe today here on sound On. Coming 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: up on the show, we're gonna talk to Gilberto you 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: know Josa, who's the state Democratic Party chairman in Texas. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: We've got to ask him about everything we're seeing with 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: state lawmakers. Democratic state lawmakers leaving the state of Texas 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: amid a fight over voting rights legislation. We're also going 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: to hear from Congressman Mario Diaz Bollart, Republican from South Florida. 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: Perfect lawmaker to talk to about everything we're seeing in Cuba. Again, 21 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick here co hosting with Emily Wilkins of 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Government. You know what, the first person we have 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: to bring in to set the stage here before we 24 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: get to our our lawmaker interviews and get into what's 25 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: happening in Texas is Wendy Benjaminson, Who's the Bloomberg Washington 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: deputy managing editor. Who's gonna help set the stage for 27 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: everything we're seeing in Washington and Texas on voting rights. Uh, 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: and let's hear what the President had to say about this, 29 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 1: because President Biden delivered really a rather emotional and somewhat 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: combative speech in defense broadly of the idea of broadening 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: the right to vote. Let's hear what the President has 32 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: had to say. It's about who gets to count, who 33 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: gets to count, whether or not your vote counted at all. 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: It's about moving from independent election administrators work for the 35 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: people the polarized state legislatures and partisan actors work for 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: political parties. To me, this is simple, this is election subversion. 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: We have another clip I want to play, in particular 38 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: from the President speaking on the likelihood of anything getting 39 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: to his desk because it's a high priority for Democrats 40 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: in Congress, the For the People Act. Let's play what 41 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: he said on that. As soon as Congress passes the 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: four the People Acting that John Lewis voting writes advance back, 43 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: I will sign it and what the whole world see it? Okay, 44 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: but is that going to happen? That's the most obvious 45 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: question here. Wendy, thank you so much for joining us. 46 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: Can you spell out the prospects for really any kind 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: of voting rights legislation, particularly with an eye on the 48 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: Senate right? Well, thanks for having me and um I 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: think the answer on the prospects is slim. The President, 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: for all of his rhetoric about a national imperative and 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: all of his strong talk today, is so far unwilling 52 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: to pressure the Senate to change the filibuster and without 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: getting it into the intricacies of congressional maneuvering. Here, basically, 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: it means the difference between needing fifty votes plus a 55 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: tiebreaker from Vice President Kamala Harris or sixty votes, which 56 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: would in this Senate require ten Republicans. They're not going 57 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: to get ten Republicans. And so, um, the President is 58 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: under tremendous pressure from the left to change to pressure 59 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: to the Senate to change those rules, but he's an 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: old school senator himself and he is simply not willing 61 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: to do it at this point. So with that, no, 62 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: these bills aren't going to pass. When the President Biden, 63 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: he didn't even mention the filibuster in his remarks today. 64 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: And as you point out, you know, you have a 65 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: number of voting rights activists of progressive Democratic lawmakers who 66 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: are really pushing for this issue, and it started to 67 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: make please to Biden to really use his power of 68 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: the White House to try to convince senators to change 69 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: their minds. We haven't seen anything like that at this point. 70 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering, is the fact that there's still so 71 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: much tension around this issue, is this going to lead 72 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: to a further divide within the Democratic Party and perhaps 73 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: a loss of support from Biden from within his own party. Absolutely, 74 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: that could happen. And the Democratic Party has never been, 75 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, that united on anything. There's always you know, 76 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: a surface unity. And then I'm just going, as you 77 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: scratchate the service. They're you know, tearing each other apart. 78 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: But um, the truth is that the UM, the progressive 79 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: left UM is making a lot of noise and has 80 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: a lot of seats, but you know, they are consistently 81 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: not winning the big seats at the ballot box. While 82 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, the mayor of Buffalo was just elected of Buffalo, 83 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: New York as a socialist. The the liberal candidates for 84 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: New York City mayor, for example, didn't make it in 85 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 1: a centrist one. So I think Biden is a little 86 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: comfortable in the fact that you know, he has he 87 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: has the support in this of sort of the moderate 88 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: centrists UM and any sort of anti Trump Republicans who 89 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: might want to vote with him, and he thinks he 90 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: can hold off the progressives a little longer. So, Wendy, 91 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: when the President speaks very very forcefully about the idea 92 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: of voting rights, what exactly is he doing Is is 93 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: this a really just a campaign line with it they're 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: going to use against Republicans or what is the purpose 95 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: of this kind of high profile speech. Sure, I mean 96 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: he is signaling that he is, you know, against the 97 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: big lie, as he called it again today, that you know, 98 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump, former President Donald Trump, UM, you know, 99 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: claimed that he won the election. This is his way 100 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: of signaling that he's, you know, in spirit behind this 101 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: but these this particular bill, and I think he's also 102 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: pressuring Democrats in the state legislators like the Texans to 103 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: um to fight these laws. But there's only so far 104 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: he'll go and changing the Senate rule. Wendy, thank you 105 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: so much. I understand. Now on the line, we have 106 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: joining us Gilberto Inojosa, who is the chairman of the 107 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: Texas State Democratic Party. Now you may have heard in 108 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: the news, uh, the exodus, the exodus of Democrat Democratic 109 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: legislators from the capital and from the state of Texas 110 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: to avoid allowing a quorum in order to block a 111 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: Republican voting rights not voting an election bill that Democrats 112 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: believe was too restrictive, including measures that would, for example, 113 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: ban twenty four hour polling places. We'll get more into that, uh, 114 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: Mr chairman of your state party, Mr Inojosa, thank you 115 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. I have one simple question 116 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: to start, what exactly do you see as the end 117 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: game of the Democratic legislators leaving? I mean, isn't it 118 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: the case that we can see one special session called 119 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: after another and Republicans eventually can force this through. What 120 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: is the end game here, Well, there's several parts to 121 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: this end game. I mean, I think first and foremost 122 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: is that these um legislators four fifth, uh, four out 123 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: of every five of them is a person of color, 124 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: did not want to be a part of an effort 125 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: by the governor of this state and the Republican Party 126 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: uh to deprive people their their constituents of the right 127 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: to vote. I mean, what this governor and these legislators 128 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: were doing, the Republicans, We're trying to force these legislators 129 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: to participate in an effort to to to pass voter 130 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: suppression legislation but directly targets African Americans and Mexican Americans 131 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: and another Hispanics, and so that they just you know, 132 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: weren't willing to participate in this, in this kind of 133 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: a process that is clearly designed for that and have 134 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: nothing to do with election integrity. I mean, even the 135 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: Secretary of State in the state of Texas after who 136 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: is a Republican, after the election, said that this election 137 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: was the most fraud free election in the history of 138 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: the state of Texas. So I'm sorry to interf I 139 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: do I want to follow up, particularly on one point 140 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: you made it and at least give you a response 141 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: to I think a criticism of this action by Republicans 142 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: because you know, you say they don't want to participate 143 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: in this, but why not vote no? UH? And is 144 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: there maybe a little bit of hypocrisy in coming to 145 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: Washington talking supportively of a voting rights bill the Democrats 146 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: have pushed and have complained about, uh, the that being 147 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: stopped by the filibuster in the Senate and then effectively 148 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: I think filibustering by leaving the state. There is is 149 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: there any hypocrisy there? None at all. Remember, remember what 150 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: the filibuster rule was established. It was established, it is 151 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: it is a creature of the Jim Crow era. It 152 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: was a a rule that was established by Southern senators 153 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: to prevent UM the enactment of laws to benefit African Americans, 154 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 1: civil rights laws, laws to give him the right to 155 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: vote UM. And so that that creature of the Jim 156 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: Crow movement is Jim Crow area is still exist in Washington, 157 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: d C. And it is still being used to UH 158 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: protect to prevent the protection of the civil rights and 159 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: the voting rights of of African Americans and Mexican Americans. 160 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: What what the Democrats in Texas were doing was making 161 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: sure that this governor did his job, and that job 162 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: would be to to to UH pushed legislation that was 163 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: going to benefit all the citizen of the state of Texas, 164 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: like for example of fixturing the electric grid that caused 165 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: so many hundreds of people to die in February UH 166 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: and and much suffering as a result of that, or 167 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: speak the fact that we don't have an access to healthcare, 168 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: UH access to healthcare. We have more unsure people in 169 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: the state than any of the state in the country. 170 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: And thus I'm sorry to interrupt, but we don't have 171 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: too much time left, and I do really want to 172 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: ask very quickly on the strategy of lawmakers coming to 173 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: d C. Specifically, I mean, they're meeting right now with 174 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: Vice President Kamala Harris, They've met with Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, 175 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: They've met with Joe Manchin. But the fact of the 176 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: matter is is that there has already been a lot 177 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: of pressure on the Senate to change the filibuster and 178 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: pass voting rights, and it really is at a stalemate 179 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: at this point. So is the idea here just as 180 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: or raise awareness for the issue, because it doesn't seem 181 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: like you know, the the the pressure tactic has has 182 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: already been tried quite unsuccessfully. Well, there's a lot of 183 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: pressure points that need to be I think pushed. I 184 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: mean this uh HR one is a large piece of 185 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: legislation on voting rights that some moderate Democratic senators have 186 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: problems with. So I think the Democrats are more progressive 187 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: element of the Democratic Party has become the terms that 188 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to get everything in 189 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: HR one. And so the Democrats that are coming in 190 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: from Texas are wanting to talk not only to the 191 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: to the Senator of Cinemas and Cenator mansions of Washington, 192 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: but the progressive Democrats that don't want to budge from 193 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: putting together a bill that could be I think accepted 194 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: by more moderate Democrats. And they can always be a 195 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: way to let the filibuster rule exist but at the 196 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: same time allow for such voting rights legislation to pass 197 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: because of the big impact that it has. And if 198 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: anybody can pull this off is Joe Biden, Mr chairman, 199 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. Gilberto, you know, 200 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: hosts the State Party chairman of the Democratic Party in Tech. 201 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: Congressman Anthony Gonzalez, Republican from Ohio, came to Congress with 202 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: a stellar resume, son of Cuban immigrants, first round draft 203 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: pick for the Indianapolis Colts, and a graduate of Stanford 204 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: Business School. But now what Gonzalez is best known for 205 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: is being one of ten Republicans to vote to impeach 206 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: former President Donald Trump. A look into this race is 207 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: really a look at the tensions within the Republican Party 208 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: and the question if Republicans like Gonzalez have a chance 209 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: to survive. Joining us now is Joshua Green, Bloomberg business 210 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: Week national political correspondent who wrote the story, Joshua, thank 211 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: you so much for joining US. I just wanted to 212 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: start off by asking a little bit when you were 213 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: looking into this profile. You know, there were ten lawmakers 214 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: who voted against Trump, who voted for his impeachment. What 215 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: particularly drew you to Gonzalez? You know what drew me 216 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: Tonza Alice was a couple of things. I mean, on 217 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: the one hand, some of those members who voted against 218 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: Trump have really made that vote the centerpiece of their identity. 219 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking of people like Liz Cheney, who famously 220 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: was ousted from House leadership spot, and he's using that 221 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: vote to kind of raise her profile and raise money 222 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: in publicity. Gonzalez is interesting because he voted to impeach Um, 223 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: but but it's not what he's centering in his campaign. 224 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: And if you take that and you combine it with 225 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: his biography, Gonzales is the type of Republican that the 226 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: party was desperate to attract and and have run for 227 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: office and have vote for them before Donald Trump came along. 228 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: As I said in the lead to that piece, I mean, 229 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: he represents what used to be the future of the 230 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: Republican Party. So to me, his race is so interesting 231 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: because it's really a struggle between the old vision of 232 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: what the Republicans Party should be in the Trump vision. 233 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: And I think that his primary race next spring against 234 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: a pro Trump candidate is really going to shed a 235 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: lot of light on where the Republican Party is as 236 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: far as whether or not they're going to stick with 237 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: Trump and continue to find themselves that way, or go 238 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: back or maybe go forward um to a more kind 239 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: of positive, traditional type of Republican. I realized in the 240 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: story Gonzalez told you that the angriest, loudest voices are 241 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: the ones that get the most air time among the 242 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: quieter voices within the Republican Party. Is there asential sense 243 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: of how much support there is for a solidly conservative 244 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: yet anti Trump Republican like Congressman Gonzalez. You know, it's 245 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: the question that everybody in politics, Republicans, Democrats, especially insiders, 246 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: are asking themselves. Obviously, Trump is always the loudest voice 247 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: in the room, and if his supporters tend to kind 248 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: of dominate cable news and social media, make sure all 249 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: the rallies and they make a lot of noise. But 250 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: he also lost the presidential election. Seventy eight million people 251 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: I think voted against him. So certainly there is there 252 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: is sentim running against Trump. When nobody knows because we're 253 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: really not able to measure in any trustworthy way through 254 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: opinion polls. Is whether or not that quiet Republican sentiment 255 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: is enough to essentially save somebody like Congressman Mnzalas, whether 256 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: there are enough Republicans in his Republican leaning district they're 257 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: willing to support him despite the fact that he voted 258 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: to impeach Trump. What was so interesting in doing this 259 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: profile Gonzalez is convinced that there are, and he says 260 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: people come up to him all the time and say, hey, 261 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: you know, I don't really advertise this, I don't want 262 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: to make a big deal out of it publicly, but 263 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: I support what you're doing. I'm gonna vote for you. 264 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: Whereas most political insiders handicappers don't think Gonzalez is going 265 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: to survive this primary because Trump is still the dominant 266 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: figure in the Republican Party and Republican voters tend to 267 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: do what Trump wanted to do. So, Josh, can you 268 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: tell us more about this district? Ohio sixteenth district. It's 269 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: kind of the outskirts of north northeast Ohio. It's I believe, 270 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: nine percent white. It is a district that Trump won 271 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: with a little more than fifty six percent of the vote. 272 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: That it may not be quite as solidly read as 273 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: Liz Cheney's Wyoming, But what what is the political geography 274 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: we're talking about here? Are these really really conservative people? 275 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: Are these moderates who might admire what Gonzalez has done? 276 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: What what kind of district are we talking about? Well, 277 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: what makes it interesting is it's sort of a combination 278 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: of many of those things. I mean, this is a 279 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: district that's basically southwest of Cleveland, has a very heavy 280 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: UM military veteran presence. That's something that Gonzalez, as a congressman, 281 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: has spoken on a constituent services for veterans. It's it's 282 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: it's certainly a Republican district. There isn't much chance that 283 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: a Democrat is going to win this district. So what 284 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: really matters is not the general election next November. It's 285 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: the Republican primary next spring. And the question that a 286 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: lot of people have is, as you said, this isn't 287 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: a deep red district like you might get in Ohio 288 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: or some super rural area that's going to be very 289 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: trumpy and and punish somebody like Gonzalez. And Gonzalez also 290 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: is not a moderate UM. He's a very serious conservative guy, 291 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: serious voting record, and I think his hope is that 292 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: there are enough Republicans, not just Republicans, but Republicans who 293 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: who you know, maybe supported Trump, but think it's time 294 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: for Trump to kind of move on and for the 295 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: party to turn to somebody else that are that are 296 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: willing to support him. Um. I mean, the other thing 297 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: working in Gonzalez is favor is that he ran for 298 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: re election on doing two things, both of which he 299 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: is managing to do. And that is to create and 300 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: disseminate a COVID vaccine. We now see that succeeding across 301 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: the country with the economy reopening. And the other thing 302 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: was to negotiate a bipartisan infrastructure bill. He was very 303 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: involved in that, and of course a few weeks ago 304 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: Joe Biden came out and announced that there was a 305 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: bipartisan infrastructure agreement. We'll see if it makes through Congress, 306 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: but that bill had Gonzalez stand upon it, so he 307 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: can go back to his voters and say, look, you 308 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: may not like that boat, but I'm a good conservative. 309 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: I went out and I did what you elected me 310 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: to do. Um I deserve another term, and you know, 311 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: we'll we'll, we'll see if he can pull that off. 312 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: Josh thank you so much for joining us. That was 313 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: Joshua Green, a national political correspondent with Bloomberg business Week. 314 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: It's a really great article. Very much encourage you to 315 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: read it. You know who this reminds me of a 316 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: little bit. It reminds me of John Runyon, the former congressman. 317 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: You may remember him either as a congressman for a 318 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: few years, or as a longtime Philadelphia Eagles lineman, one 319 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: of the few people like Anthony Gonzalez to sort of 320 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: use the NFL fame to then run for office. Uh. 321 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: Back then John Runyon left and kind of complained, you know, 322 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: at least in football you know exactly who your opponent is. Uh. 323 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: Sometimes you get trampled when you come to Congress. Jack 324 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick here with Emily Wilkins, my fellow Bloomberg government reporter, 325 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: co hosting today on the line, we have Congressman Mario 326 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: Diaz Ballard of Florida. I really wanted to ask him 327 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: not only about everything happening in Cuba, but as I mentioned, 328 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: he's a member of my favorite, everybody's favorite committee, the 329 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: House Appropriations Committee. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. 330 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 1: I want to, I think, start with the simplest question 331 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: about what we are seeing in Cuba with the protests 332 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: that really built up starting over the weekend one. I'm 333 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: curious what your take is on exactly what the cause is. 334 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: Is this a cause caused by the policies we saw 335 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: imposed by the Trump administration. Is the coronavirus and the 336 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: low vaccination rate part of this. What do you attribute 337 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: this to and and why now? Yeah, well, Jack and Emily, 338 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: thank you for the opportunity. I'll tell you what the 339 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: cause is, commut That's what it is. It's lack of freedom. 340 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: And and don't take my word for it, tak the 341 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: words for the folks that are hitting the street. Those 342 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: brave men and women were hitting the streets. They are chanting, 343 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: they are demanding freedom. They're demanding of the end of this, uh, 344 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: you know, this dictatorship that's now repressed the people for 345 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: sixty two years. Not to mention the fact that, by 346 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: the way, obviously it's been a national security threat to 347 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: the United States. But people are hitting the streets because 348 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: they're fed up there. They don't want to take this anymore. 349 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: They understand that the only way to for for prosperity 350 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: and for everything is for this regime to go, and 351 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: freedom is the answer, Congressman. Earlier today, Jack and I 352 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: were speaking with William Leo Grandy, a professor of government 353 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: and American University who's written a book about US Cuba relationships, 354 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: and he noted that some of the anger that we're seeing, 355 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: some of the impetus for these protests can be traced 356 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: back to restrictive policies in the US, including one and 357 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: he highlighted this one from former President Trump that blocked 358 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: cash transfers to Cuba. And I'm wondering, is this something 359 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: that the Biden administration should be addressing. Should they be 360 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: lifting these sanctions, keeping these restrictions. What does the Biden 361 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: administration's role here need to be. Yeah, Emily, a good question, 362 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: but I will tell you, with all due respec to 363 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: the professor, that's absurd. It is absolutely absurd, and it's 364 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: frankly patronizing. Look again, listen to what the Cuban people 365 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: are saying. They're saying freedom. They've gone to We've seen 366 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: the images of them going to the headquarters of the 367 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: Communist Party in Havana, and they're saying, this is not 368 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: your country. This has nothing to do Obviously, it's a 369 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: poor country because of communism. Obviously there's misery and repression 370 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: because of this regime. People are fed up with that. Now, 371 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: are there circumstances that maybe have you know, sparked it potentially, 372 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: But the reality is this has nothing to do with 373 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: the remittances. But this is all to do with freedom. 374 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: And by the way, I'm sure you all saw some 375 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: of those images where which which is similar to what 376 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: we saw in Hong Kong and in places like Iran, 377 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: where people who are seeking freedom, they're carrying the American 378 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: flag because to them and to the world, by the way, 379 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: something that more Americans need to remember, the American flag 380 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: is the symbol of freedom. They're not carrying the British flag, 381 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: the Swedish flag. Those are democracies. They are carrying the 382 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: American flag and they're and they're carrying their American flag 383 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: because they understand. The United States has stuck with them, 384 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: not doing business with the regime, not helping finance or 385 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: legitimize the regime, which by the way, was the atrocious 386 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: thing that the Obama administration did. No, the United States 387 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: has stuck with the Cuban people, has imposed tough sanctions 388 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: on the regime. That is something that the people support 389 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: because they want to get rid of the regime. And 390 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: to say that it's like, oh, because of you know, 391 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: specific little policy at the United States. No, No, it's 392 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: because of sixty two years of communist repression. That is 393 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: the cause. And the Cuban people, unlike what this professor 394 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: may understand, are smart enough to understand that the cause 395 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: is communism and that the solution is freedom. So Congressman, 396 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: I do want you to ask about a specific little thing. 397 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a specific little thing, but I'm curious because 398 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: I know you actually brought this up at a markup today. Uh, 399 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: the proposal to reduce funding for TV and radio Martee. 400 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: And when you look at the those organizations, the Office 401 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: of Cuba Broadcasting and what the federal government funds in 402 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: terms of broadcasting what is supposed to be reliable news 403 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 1: into a communist country. Uh, what can we see from you? 404 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: Are are you going to push for an increase in 405 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: funding for those you know when you address uh, sort 406 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: of the idea of how the US communicates with the 407 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: Cuban people. What what can we see from you as 408 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: a House Republican? What what can you do to try 409 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: to address this? Yeah? Jack, I mean so at a 410 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: time when the Democrats in the House are proposing increases 411 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: in everything you can think of except for Home and 412 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: security and defense one of the areas where they're they're 413 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: actually reducing what Congress has done in a bipartisan way 414 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: from and here's is funding for broadcast into Cuba to 415 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: break the lodge in that exists. As you know now 416 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: they've even shut down the Internet and also of funding 417 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: for democracy programs dealing with Cuba. So why they would 418 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: pick those two areas to cut remains a mystery. Actually 419 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: it's really not a mystery. But while they're increasing funding 420 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: in places that you can even not imagine, those are 421 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 1: areas that they've decided to cut. So no, I'm going 422 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: to continue to fight to make sure that we don't 423 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: abandon the Cuban people when they are when we are 424 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: most needed. And so, by the way, here's what the 425 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: administration needs to be doing. They need to rally rally 426 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,239 Speaker 1: the world, the democrat democracies in the world on the 427 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: concept that the regime in Cuba it's legitimate. Six or 428 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: two years without elections, now they're you know, the old 429 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: man is now the second brother is basically now on 430 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: his way out, and they wanted out and give somebody else, 431 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: somebody else a power. No, rally the world. It's an illegitimate, Uh, regime, 432 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: it's got to go. Number two is help with for example, internet, 433 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: The United States has its technology to provide internet to 434 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: the Cuban people so that the regime can't eliminate it. 435 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that the United States can do. 436 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: And by the way, sanction those that are helping the 437 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: regime um something that President Trump did did very successfully, 438 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: by the way, was sanctioned the regime, the thuds and 439 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: also those who are helping the regime. Can I sneak 440 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: in a real quick one on infrastructure in about twenty seconds? Uh, 441 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi? Speaker Pelosi is uh saying that the bipartisan 442 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: infrastructure bill won't move in the House without that next 443 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: reconciliation bill. As a Republican, are you open to voting 444 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: for an infrastructure bill if it is then tied to 445 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: a partisan Democratic bill? No? I mean, that's that's that's 446 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: that's the fools are. In other words, if you can't 447 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: say bipartisan and in the sunset talk about reconciliation, reconciliation 448 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: is an effort to not have bipartisan support. And so 449 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: I'm hoping that the Speaker will decide to get real 450 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: and have bipartisan conversations. Infrastructure is an area that we 451 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: could reach bipartisan consensus, but not if you say, okay, 452 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: give me you know, let's negotiate a little part of 453 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: a bipartisans and then I'm going a railroad through a 454 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: partisan uh issue. That's not the way it works, right, Congressman, 455 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: thank you so much. That was Congressman Rio Diaz Balart, 456 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: Republican from South Florida. You're listening to Bloomberg you sound 457 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. You have made 458 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: it to the end of Tuesday. Congratulations. I am Emily 459 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: Wilkins here with my Bloomberg Government co host Jack Fitzpatrick, 460 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: and joining us are some of our favorite people to 461 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: have on the show, Rick Davis and Jeanie Sean zan No. 462 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: We're going to cover a couple other big news stories 463 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: coming out of DC today. Let's start in the halls 464 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: of Congress, where a bipartisan group of Senators has again 465 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: gathered after a two week recess to discuss the infrastructure bill, 466 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: and cracks in the bipartisan agreement have begun to show. 467 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: We have sound on Senator Mark Warner emerging from a 468 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: closed door meeting and telling reporters that he is confident 469 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: that he and his colleagues from both sides of the 470 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: aisle will be able to reach a deal. This is 471 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: an opportunity to show a country in the world that 472 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: even the midst of all the kind of partisan wrangles, 473 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: there are still a vast majority of centator somewhere to 474 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: work together to get this done. We are hearing some 475 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: concerns from Republican senators. One is that wall lawmakers did 476 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: come to an agreement on how to pay for the bill, 477 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which is shoes reports and 478 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: scores on the actual amount of spending estimated, might wind 479 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: up disagreeing that the whole thing is paid for. That 480 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: could threaten some Republican support. We've also heard from Republicans. 481 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: Senator Tom Tillis that he's worried that Democrats are still 482 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: connecting that infrastructure bill with the larger reconciliation package that 483 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: has all those other items that Democrats want and Republicans 484 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: do not want to pass. And so, Jennie, I want 485 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: to see if you can sort of put this in context. 486 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: Is this just part of negotiations to kind of see 487 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: this back and forth we will, we won't going on 488 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: or could this bipartisan infrastructure bill be an actual trouble? 489 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,959 Speaker 1: You know, I think at this point it can be 490 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: in actual trouble. And I'll tell you why. We heard 491 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: Senator Joe Manchin said reporters that he would only back 492 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: a bill that was fully financed by tax revenues. And 493 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: excuse me, he raised the issue of debt. How much 494 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: debt he asks can you handle. So we've got the moderates, 495 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: and this is something that we've heard from Warner and 496 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: others have warned about that may jump off if this 497 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: is not fully paid for. You've also, on the other hand, 498 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: got Republicans toying with the idea on another sort of 499 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: area about the debt ceiling and playing chicken with that. 500 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: And you also, as as as you both know, well, 501 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: we're waiting for a CBO at some point, the CBO 502 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: to score this thing. So I think it is still 503 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: in as precarious a position as it ever was at 504 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: this point, and it's all about the pay force. Genie, 505 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point, especially on what 506 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: we're going to see from the CBO, which is such 507 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: a small, opaque organization that can have such a pivotal 508 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: effect on what happens in Washington around the country. In particular, 509 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm really interested to see how the lawmakers follow up 510 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: on I R S enforcement. If you the idea, of 511 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: course is if you give more money for I R 512 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: S enforcement. There's a lot of money out there that 513 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: is supposed to under current law be collected. There's could 514 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: be a big revenue raiser, but one there are a 515 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: number of Republicans who are seemingly turning against that in 516 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: Congress too. That's a really tough one for the CBO 517 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: to score. So I'm not sure if officially they're going 518 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: to get as much of the pay for money as 519 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: they think from that, Rick, what what do you? What 520 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: are your thoughts on the pay fors? Am I being 521 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: too pessimistic on thinking that this whole I R S 522 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: enforcement idea is just not the convenient thing that lawmakers 523 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: thought it would be a couple of months ago. Yeah, 524 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: let me just say Genie and I have been at 525 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: odds on infrastructure since it was first discussed in January. Uh. 526 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: I actually think they're going to get a bipartisan bill. 527 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: The twenty two members, half Republican, half Democrat, have already 528 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: done the hard work. Um. I think it's best summed 529 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: up by Mitt Romney, who took on the CBO and said, 530 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: you know what, CBO can score anyway it wants. I'm 531 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: going to look at it from my own point of view, 532 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: and if I agree with the numbers, then I agree 533 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: with the numbers. So CBO is your rightly point out, Jack, 534 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: is a very important organization that is mostly ignored in 535 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: in these kinds of budget budget fights and negotiations. No, Rick, 536 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: I just want to follow up with that for just 537 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: a minute. Can you just sort of dive into the 538 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: thinking of some of these senators. I mean, you know 539 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: the GOP. I think normally the thought process that we've 540 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: seen for some of the past reconciliation bill with COVID 541 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: in particular, the one in March was that Republicans didn't 542 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: vote for it. They criticized it heavily. Mean, what is 543 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: so different now about this infrastructure package that you think 544 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: that Republicans are going to overcome some of these concerns 545 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: that we're hearing and eventually get to yes. Well, first 546 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: of all, the reconciliation bill had no Republican input, right, 547 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it was a democratic bill built by Democrats, 548 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: funded the way Democrats wanted to fund it, and and 549 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: got no Republican support. So so I don't think it's 550 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: comparable in this case. A large group of Republicans. Uh, frankly, 551 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: probably supported by leadership, have entered into a negotiation and 552 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: basically got the spending the way they wanted. And so 553 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: so there's a big infrastructure the big investment in this 554 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: infrastructure bill by Republicans. And and by the way, Republicans 555 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: like infrastructure spending, right, This is the kind of stuff 556 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: we want in in public spending because it generates more 557 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: economic activity than it costs. And so I think you 558 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: have a legitimate interest in seeing a bill done. And 559 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: I think the President has really come a long way 560 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: of given Republicans what they wanted on this. I mean, 561 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: if anything, the folks who are most concerned about this 562 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: bill or the Democrats and uh and and how that 563 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: wants you know, how they're trying to tie it to 564 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: a reconciliation bill, which frankly even has only partial support 565 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: within a Democratic caucus in the Senate. Well, I'm sure 566 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: Rick and Jennie that we will both be talking to 567 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: you much more on this topic, but I do want 568 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: to switch to some breaking news this afternoon. President Joe 569 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: Biden has nominated former Republican Senator Jeff Flake to be 570 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: Ambassador to Turkey. Jeff Flake, you know, he was a 571 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: Republican in the Senate, and then when Trump got elected, 572 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: Flake was one of the more outspoken Republicans against some 573 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: of Trump's policies and behaviors. And Flake wound up being 574 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: a circuit for President Biden when he was campaigning on 575 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: the campaign trail. And we actually have a bit of 576 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: sound from Flake's farewell address on the Senate floor back 577 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: in December of commenting on the state affairs in American politics. 578 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: I believe that we all know well that this is 579 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: not a normal time, and that the threats to our 580 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: democracy from within and without are real, and none of 581 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: us can say with confidence how the situation that we 582 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: now find ourselves in. We'll now let us recognize from 583 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: this place here today that the shadow of tyranny is 584 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,479 Speaker 1: once again enveloping parts of the globe. And let us 585 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: recognize as authoritarian, as authoritarian isn't reasserts itself in country 586 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: after country, that we are by no means immune. Now, 587 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: Flake will need to be confirmed by the Senate, including 588 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: by his former Republican colleagues, many whoever, meained quite loyal 589 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: to Trump. Jennie give us the rundown here. How difficult 590 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: might it be for Flake to be confirmed as the 591 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: ambassador to Turkey. I think Flake does get confirmed. You know, 592 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: I think there will be Republicans who peel off in 593 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: deference to President Trump. I think we can't forget that 594 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: despite supporting a President Biden and taking on President Trump, 595 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: Jeff Flake is a very conservative guy, and I think 596 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: we forget that. Um. I also think this is an 597 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: important appointment for the president because the President has long 598 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: wanted to show that he is reaching a US the aisle, 599 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: and these types of appointments are one way to do that. 600 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: I think he wants to do it in other ways, 601 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,959 Speaker 1: but these are ways in which the President can say 602 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: I am bringing Republicans into the fold and again, and 603 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: Rick knows this well, Um, this is a conservative guy. 604 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: This is not some like you know, you know, liberal 605 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: Republican in Jeff Lake. So I think it's an important 606 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: appointment across the board. And I do think he gets 607 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: the support of his colleagues even with peel off. Yeah. 608 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask Rick. I wanted to ask you, 609 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 1: particularly considering how long you worked for John McCain. And actually, 610 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: something that came to mind is I believe this is 611 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: only the second Republican nominated by Biden, uh, the first 612 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: being Cindy McCain. Uh so, you know, is considering that 613 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: Jeff Lake was really originally sort of a tea party guy. 614 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: How do you do the comparing contrast? Has Jeff Lake 615 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: turned himself into somewhat of the the next John McCain 616 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: or you give us a compare and contrast of those two. 617 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: You know, they always got along extremely well. I mean, 618 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, fellow senators from Arizona. They were not only uh, 619 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: terrific allies in the Senate, but um, you know, they 620 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: were great friends. And uh. And I think that this 621 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: represents a I think a new wave with a lot 622 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: of Republicans, which was uh they chose to support um um, 623 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: Joe biden Is presidential campaign without actually giving up their 624 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: Republican credential. I mean, you you point out he's a 625 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: conservative absolutely. Cindy McCain, you know, no slouch. I mean, 626 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: she's not a she's not a moderate, she's you know, 627 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: and John McCain himself, you know, really uh maintained a 628 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: strong conservative, if not deal making credential. And the fact 629 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: that both of them come from Arizona. Arizona was one of, 630 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: if not the key state in the swing towards Biden. 631 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: To win the presidency. I think really reflects a a 632 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: instinct that Joe Biden had, not sure it's you know, 633 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,479 Speaker 1: held by the rest of his administration, but to reach 634 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: out to Republicans, not to tournament and Democrats, but to 635 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: use their capabilities to help forward his agenda. Rick, I 636 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,959 Speaker 1: just wanted to ask real quick to you know, let's 637 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: not overlook the fact that this is an ambassador to Turkey, 638 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 1: which is an important relationship in a difficult relationship. How 639 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: significant is this as a post for for Flake. It's 640 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: not exactly honorary. This is pretty important right now. This 641 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: is a very difficult posts held in the past by 642 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: career diplomats, you know, with a lot of diplomatic skill. 643 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: I think it's a great kudos to former Center Flake 644 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: for forgetting this job, because it it is at the 645 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: heart of a lot of the debate within NATO. UM. 646 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,280 Speaker 1: This administration has already laid down a pretty tough line 647 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: with Prime Minister urdwan Um related to the Armenian gen genocide, 648 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: Russian weapons systems Kurds in Syria. I mean, it's a 649 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: it's a full agenda, and I think that this will 650 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 1: put Flake back in the hot seat, which I think 651 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: he enjoyed when he was in the Senate. Well, Rick Davis, 652 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: Jeanie Schanze. No, Thank you guys so much for joining 653 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: us today, as well as our other guest Congressman Mario 654 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 1: Diaz Bollard and Texas Democratic Party Chairman Gilberto Njosa, as 655 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: well as Wendy Benjaminson with Bloomberg. I'm Emil Wilkins, signing 656 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: off with my co host Jack Fitzpatrick. Have a great 657 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: rest of your evening. This is Bloomberg.