1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're on vacation this week, but that 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: doesn't mean we don't have an amazing show for you Today. 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: The New York Times columnist and author of The Uninhabitable Earth, 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: David Wallace Wells. We'll talk to us about the latest 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: on climate change. But first we have Will Rollins, who 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: is running for the forty first district in California, and 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: he's going to talk to us about his newly announced 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: run for Congress. There. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Will Rollins. 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Walie. Great to 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: be back. 13 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to overblow this year, but I think 14 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: you are the key to Democrats winning back the House. 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: Well, I don't like that much pressure on my shoulders, 16 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 3: but in no pressure. 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: We are definitely a crucial House race for the House majority. 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 3: And yeah, we've got a great opportunity to flip the 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 3: seat next year, no doubt. 20 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: So tell me what your district is. I know a 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: little bit about it because it's where my dad and 22 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: my stepmom lived. 23 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: But tell us yeah, sure, so this is a new district. 24 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,919 Speaker 3: Last year was the first time that we had California 25 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: forty one as it is currently constituted. It used to 26 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 3: be a Trump plus seven seat, but in redistricting it 27 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 3: picked up Palm Springs, Rancho, Mirage, Palm Desert, Lakita, Indian Wells, 28 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: and actually a much more democratic part of the state. 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 3: So for the first time in Ken Calvert's history in office, 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: he's got a democratic majority electorate. 31 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: Wow. So let's talk about Ken Calvret. That district is 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: very liberal. Your district, Rancho, Mirage, Palm Springs, very progressive 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: group of people. Ken Calverret is not that. 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: Huh No, he's not. 35 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 3: I mean, he's traditionally had an extremely conservative seat and 36 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 3: since nineteen ninety two he's taken some pretty extreme votes 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: on a whole host of issues. Is whether it's you know, 38 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: a national abortion band with no exceptions at the federal level, 39 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 3: whether it's voting to keep LGBT people out of the military, 40 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: whether it's recently instead of campaigns on inflation, crime, homelessness. 41 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 3: And after he wins reelection, you know, one of his 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: first votes is to gut the Office of Congressional Ethics. 43 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 3: He recently voted to make it harder for our women 44 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 3: in uniform to get access to reproductive care. So he's 45 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 3: somebody who I think is just really out of step 46 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 3: with what people imagine as Southern California and what Southern 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: California really is. So I think that's going to, you know, 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 3: manifest itself when he loses next year. I think a. 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: Really important thing that we should be talking about is 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: this idea that there really is no space in this 51 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: Republican party for moderates anymore. I am always like a 52 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: little squishy and so I want in my heart of 53 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: hearts for a Susan Collins or you know, someone like 54 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: that to be able to make a difference. And in 55 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: the Senate it happens more than in the House, but 56 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: really in the House, all of these Republicans vote in lockstaff. 57 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: And you know, I come from a family that is 59 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: split between Republicans and Democrats. And I started my career 60 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: first job out of college as an aid to Governor 61 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 3: Arnold Schwarzenegger, even though I was a Democrat. And you know, 62 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: he was a guy who hired a bipartisan staff, truly 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: by partisan staff, and I think genuinely wanted to hear 64 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: different perspectives when he was making policy decisions, and so 65 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: much of that has been lost in the Republican Party. 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: And I think Governor Schwarzenegger was talking about this twenty 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: years ago when he said Republicans were dying at the 68 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: box office and needed to moderate on a whole host 69 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: of issues, and rather than heeding his advice, they have 70 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: gone as far to the right as possible. And I 71 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: think it's pretty remarkable to see people like and Calvert 72 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: think that they can and continue to win reelection by 73 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: telling tens of thousands of his own constituents in the 74 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: LGBTQ community, for example, that we don't deserve to eat 75 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 3: when we get older. With his vote this week to 76 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 3: defund senior meals for LGBT people, it's remarkable that they 77 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 3: think this is a winning political strategy. 78 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: Politico ran an article on your campaign and it said 79 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: do over in the Desert California Democrat who almost won 80 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: seeks a rematch, And I think a lot about the 81 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: Lauren Boepert challenger, who we also had on this podcast, 82 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: who lost by seven hundred votes. There is an opportunity 83 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: and twenty four for both of you to finish what 84 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: you've started. 85 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean Tom Sprays is like the best 86 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 3: part of running for me, but it is grueling because 87 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: of our broken campaign finance system. And I think, you know, 88 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: I didn't have a true sense of how brutal the 89 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 3: process was until I did it myself, and so I 90 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 3: wasn't sure that I was going to do it again. 91 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: But we had some great silver lions in the midterms. 92 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: I mean ended up being the only challenger in the 93 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 3: state of California to win independence as a Democrat and 94 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 3: did the best of any House challenger compared to President 95 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: Biden's performance in twenty twenty by House district. And so 96 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 3: I had a lot of members of Congress reach out 97 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 3: to me after the election and tell me their stories 98 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 3: of running in a midterm and narrowly losing and coming 99 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: back and winning it in the presidential year with higher turnout. 100 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: And so I think that I did not have a 101 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: choice to run again. I think all Americans who care 102 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 3: about our democracy and freedom have to step up to 103 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 3: the plate and do everything that each of us has 104 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 3: in our own individual power to make sure that this 105 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: Republic continues to stand and that we continue to be 106 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 3: the leader of the free world. 107 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: In the twenty first century. 108 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, especially 109 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: when we're so faced with this climate change summer. If 110 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: the Democrats don't win back the House this fall, we're 111 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: looking down the barrel of a very likely government shutdown 112 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: because the House Republicans are completely insane. If Democrats win 113 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: back the House, there could be more climate legislation and 114 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: more of the kind of things like the child tax 115 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: credit and more of this sort of nuts and balts 116 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: legislation that the American people really really like. 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 118 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think I, you know, come back, it's 119 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 3: funny to be a Democratic House candidate continuing to quote 120 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: a Republican governor like Schwarzenegger. But I mean what he 121 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 3: said about climate change when he was the governor of California. 122 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: You know, you don't have to just have either economic 123 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 3: growth or a green economy. 124 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: You can have both of these things. 125 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 3: And it's possible to do that in a state like 126 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 3: California and in a place like the Coachella Valley, where 127 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 3: we really have an opportunity to lead the country and 128 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: the world in the development of lithium ion batteries, for example, 129 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 3: that that power the green economy globally and that actually 130 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 3: make our air cleaner to breathe than a safer plant 131 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: for all of us. So I think that it's not again, 132 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 3: really not just about making sure the planet survives, which 133 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: of course is our first concern, but making sure our 134 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 3: economy grows and that we continue to compete with countries 135 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: like China which want to create the. 136 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: Foothold in this new economy. 137 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: And if we have smart leaders who are willing to 138 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: work hard, roll up their sleeves, I know we can 139 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 3: make a lot of progress and achieve what we want 140 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: to for America in this century. 141 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: So here is my question for you. It looks like 142 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: twenty four is going to be a rematch of Biden v. Trump. 143 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: Republicans are all in on this kind of insane insanity. 144 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you're on the ground. You're in California. California 145 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: is largely liberal state, but there really are pockets of 146 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: extreme conservatism in California. And since you're running for Congress, 147 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: everyone is telling you everything they're unhappy about. What are 148 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: you hearing from voters? 149 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 3: The good news is that people are unhappy about things 150 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: that unify us. 151 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: In some ways. 152 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 3: They're unhappy that members of Congress are able to trade stocks. 153 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: I too, am unhappy about that. 154 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, you know, I think this presents 155 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: a real opportunity. I spent most of my career as 156 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: a federal prosecutor, and you know, had some great colleagues 157 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: in the US Attorney's Office who have prosecuted some incredible 158 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: public corruption cases out of the Central District of California. 159 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: And you know, those cases apply to Republicans and Democrats alike. 160 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 3: And I think there's an opportunity even among some really 161 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: conservative parts of the state. You know, Canyon Lake, for examples, 162 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: in my district where my partner and I used to live, 163 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: one of the most republican cities in California. No matter 164 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 3: whether you've got an R or a D behind your 165 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 3: last name, if you believe in banning members of Congress 166 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: from trading stocks, if you believe in a lifetime ban 167 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: on lobbying, if you believe that corporate pack contributions should 168 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 3: be made illegal. Again, that's a process based type of 169 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 3: populism that I think more of us need to be 170 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: talking about, because our government cannot function if corruption can 171 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 3: continues to seep into the halls of Congress. And you 172 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: look at again, somebody like my opponent, whose net worth 173 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 3: has gone up by twenty million dollars since he first 174 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: took office in ninety two, in part by using earmarks 175 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: for personal benefit, which has been widely reported not just 176 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: by the liberal press, but also by Fox News, by 177 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 3: the National Review, the Orange County Register. These are not 178 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: liberal bastions that covered some of his own self dealing. 179 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: People are hungry for, I think, reforms that apply to 180 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 3: Congress writ large, regardless of party, because they know that 181 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 3: gridlock can't really be overcome until we have a government 182 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: that works for working families. 183 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: When you look at this map, there are not that 184 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: many seats that Democrats can pick up. There are some 185 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: seats in New York State, there are a few in California, 186 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: but this is a very gerrymandered map. So the fact 187 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: that you have a real opportunity here, I think is 188 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: really really important. 189 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. 190 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 3: And I think California and New York, if you look 191 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: at what happened in the midterms, we actually had lower 192 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: turnout among Democratic voters in both of those states than 193 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: we had in red states like Kansas and Alaska. And 194 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 3: so when you look under the hood, as some of 195 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: the results from the midterms and I, you know, think 196 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 3: about my district in particular. We had about sixty percent 197 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 3: of registered Republicans voting in my district, about fifty percent 198 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 3: of registered Democrats voting in my district, but I only 199 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 3: lost by about four points. And so when you look 200 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 3: at the ability to overperform in that climate, and I think, 201 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: you know, I always joke, I don't know whether it 202 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: means that I'm a good candidate or calvert as an 203 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 3: exceptionally bad candidate, whatever. 204 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: The combination may be. We were able to build a. 205 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: Pretty unique coalition in California forty one that got a 206 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 3: lot of independence and moderate Republicans over to our side, 207 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 3: including you know, the former Assembly Republican leader in California, 208 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 3: the former elected Republican sheriff in Riverside County, both of 209 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: whom endorsed our campaign in the last cycle. And I 210 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 3: think we need more Democratic candidates to aggressively court the 211 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 3: pro democracy, average Republican voters who are still out there 212 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 3: because the electives may not be, but their voters are, 213 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 3: and we absolutely can can win them. 214 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk about that because I think 215 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: of you as in that group of Democrats who have 216 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: really tried to reach out to Republicans who are you know, 217 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: like so many of the Bulwark Cup and the people 218 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: in my life, you know who cannot stomach this Republican 219 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: Party under Trump, but who have some more conservative values 220 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: and who are now in an uneasy Reproachmont with the 221 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, and we need them to win elections. 222 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 223 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 3: One of my favorite events that I've gone to was 224 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: a chamber of commerce and then in Norco, where most 225 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 3: of the folks at the table were just talking about 226 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: we could get Eastvale, a city again in my district 227 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 3: that its own zip code. It's been trying to get 228 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: its own zip codes so packages can be delivered. And 229 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 3: a local assemblymen representative got up and said, you know, 230 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: I'd really like it if everybody can support my bill 231 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: to make sure that teachers out LGBT kids to their 232 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 3: parents and the entire group of not you know, this 233 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: is a Chamber of COMMERCEOVT in Orco, not a pretigu 234 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: progressive area. But everybody just kind of looked around at 235 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: each other, like, why is this person so obsessed with 236 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 3: culture war issues when we've got just a practical issue 237 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 3: in our district that needs to be resolved. And I 238 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: think that there are a lot of moderate Republicans, and 239 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: I'm friends with a lot of them. I mean, I 240 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: again started, I spent started my career off with Schwarzenegger 241 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 3: and had a family that really was split around the 242 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: dinner table, where you could have substantive disagreements with a 243 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 3: sense of humor without it feeling existential. And I think 244 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 3: that so many of us are craving a return to 245 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: that kind of community. I believe that it's incumbent on 246 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: people like me running and really all of us who 247 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 3: have Republican family and friends to try to engage. 248 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 2: I know it's not always the easiest. 249 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: Thing to do, but if we are going into places 250 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 3: that make us feel a little bit uncomfortable, I don't 251 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 3: think that we are doing our job to unite the country. 252 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 3: And it's one of my favorite things to do because 253 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 3: you realize how much there actually is in common and 254 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 3: how much unites us when it comes to policy, and 255 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 3: if you can get past the names that people have 256 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: these preconceptions about, I think there really is a lot 257 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 3: to bring us together. 258 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's no reason for the government to be 259 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: involved in what happens in children's lives. I mean, this 260 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: is such an insane you know, these people used to 261 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: be small government conservatives and now I mean, I think 262 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: the thing that I was so struck by was Ron 263 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: DeSantis was recently saying that he's going to acute bud Light. 264 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: He's going to try to go after bud Light for 265 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: the Anheuser Busch Corporation started by longtime Republican donors, because 266 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: he felt that they had been too woke. And you know, 267 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: this is not what the government's job is, not to 268 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: punish businesses that they don't like. And we see this 269 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: again and again in the House too. You know, they're 270 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: trying to fight against clean energy because they really just 271 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: are afraid of progress. 272 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, how is that free market conservatism? Right 273 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: to target your largest employer, in the case of Florida, 274 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: right in the state, an entity that contributes billions to 275 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 3: your economy every year, and say, you know, I don't 276 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 3: agree with your position on some issue and I'm going 277 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: to use the power of the state to go after you. 278 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I think that makes a lot of Reagan 279 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 3: Republicans recoil because that's not what America is about. This 280 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: kind of punitive, tit for tat culture warrior type conservatism. 281 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 3: That's not the Republican Party of the nineteen eighties. It's 282 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 3: not the George W. Bush Republican Party, and a lot 283 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 3: of people are put off by it. And I think 284 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: it's a testament to kind of the realignment that we've 285 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 3: seen in districts like CAA forty one, where you have 286 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 3: a group of people who are small government conservatives or 287 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: even libertarians who don't think that the government should be 288 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 3: dictating medical decisions for women, who don't think the government 289 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: should be dictating medical decisions for parents and their kids. 290 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 3: I mean, Ken Calvert's not a trained physician, he's not 291 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: a psychotherapist. I don't know why anybody would ever want 292 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: to have to pick up their phone and call that 293 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: guy for input before they make a decision about their 294 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: own life and body. And I think that that kind 295 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: of a coalition. And also, you know, frankly, on gun rights, 296 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: I think whether you're looking at parents who have little 297 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: kids who are in school, or you've got folks worried 298 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 3: about their grandparents going to the grocery store, some really 299 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 3: basic common sense reforms that I've even had conversations with 300 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: NRA members about that NRA members support, for example, red 301 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: flag laws. I mean, I've got an opponent who doesn't 302 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 3: believe that somebody who threatens to shoot up a school 303 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: should have a no sale order put in place. That's remarkable. 304 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 3: I mean, that puts him in such a fringe element 305 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 3: of our population that it's going to make him unelectable. 306 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 3: And it's good news for me because I'm the one 307 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: to run it against it. 308 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Please come back. 309 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: Thank you, Mollie. Great to be on Love the Show. 310 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: David Wallace Wells is a New York Times columnist and 311 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: author of The Uninhabitable Earth. Welcome to Fast Politics, David 312 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: Wallace Wells. I'm delighted to have you. 313 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: Really good to be here. 314 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: It's summer, it's fire season. Give me your top lines 315 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: on summer twenty twenty three. 316 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,119 Speaker 4: Well, it just feels like every summer in the Northern Hemisphere. 317 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 4: Now we're seeing what looked like unprecedented record breaking events 318 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 4: all around the world sort of at once, and then 319 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 4: we kind of forget about them by the time the 320 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 4: next summer rolls around and we see a whole other 321 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 4: wave and have another collective panic attack. This year seems 322 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 4: a lot worse than last year. You know, the extreme 323 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 4: heat is really scary. Across the US. We had weeks 324 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 4: in Texas where the heat index was above one hundred 325 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 4: every day. We had I think it was eighteen straight 326 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 4: days in Phoenix where it was one hundred and twenty. 327 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 4: In Miami, we've had you know, really scary heat and 328 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 4: deseas up in the upper nineties, over one hundred for 329 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 4: weeks on end. We've got these crazy sea surface temperature 330 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 4: anomalies where we haven't seen ocean waters this hot presumably 331 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 4: for millions of years. And around the Florida Keys the 332 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 4: water is as hot as it is in a hot tub. 333 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 4: It's like in a couple of places it's registered over 334 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 4: one hundred degrees in the ocean water. We've had these 335 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 4: unbelievable off the charts Canadian fire season where they've had 336 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 4: you know, many multiples of their recent average fires burn 337 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 4: and we're nowhere near the end of that season and 338 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 4: there's basically nothing we can do to stop those fires 339 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 4: or stop them smoke from coming. 340 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: And now just in the. 341 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 4: Last few days, we've seen a lot of crazy scary 342 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 4: wildfire activity Mediterranean basin, which from like a global statistical perspective, 343 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 4: isn't that big a deal. These are pretty small fires 344 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 4: by the standards of Canada or California, or Siberia or Australia, 345 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 4: but in the context of pretty densely populated little islands 346 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 4: where it happens a lot of Europeans are had vacation. 347 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 4: Right now, it looks pretty terrifying, like a large chunk 348 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 4: of roads is burned. Parts of Corfu. Sicily had its 349 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 4: highest temperature reading ever yesterday and now they've got wildfires 350 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 4: like right outside of Palermo. So you know, basically everywhere 351 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 4: you look, you're seeing things that you never thought you'd see. 352 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 4: And just today a big study came out looking at 353 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: in particular the heat waves in the US, China and Europe, 354 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 4: which found that, you know, all of these things which 355 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 4: best would have been like once in every two hundred 356 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 4: and fifty year events and in some cases would have 357 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 4: been totally impossible in a world without climate change, are 358 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 4: now one in fifteen year events, one in five year events. 359 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 4: So it's you know, it's basically things that would have 360 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 4: been impossible to imagine a generation ago are now so 361 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 4: routine we don't even clock them as especially unusual these days. 362 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 2: And that's where we are. 363 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: I would love it if you would explain to US 364 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: a little bit about why there isn't more of a 365 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: kind of collective freak out about those. 366 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 4: Well, I think the big answer is that we are 367 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 4: capable of normalizing extreme weather at the same rate that 368 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 4: it is accelerating. And that means that, you know, we're 369 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 4: basing our expectations for this year in the next couple 370 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 4: of years really just on the experiences of the last 371 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 4: few years, not on like a twenty year or thirty 372 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 4: year timeline, and that means that even things that are 373 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 4: basically off the charts feel merely like multiples of what 374 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 4: we've had in the recent past. You know, heat wave 375 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 4: that we've had in the US the last couple of weeks, 376 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 4: while really horrifying, is not that different from the hea 377 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 4: we had last year when also one hundred million Americans 378 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 4: were under extreme he warnings. And so, you know, psychologically 379 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 4: we adapt extremely quickly. You know, our politics is broken 380 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: in all the ways that we know, and so we 381 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 4: don't have a lot of you know, a lot of 382 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 4: leadership calling out this issue. Mostly we're just like letting 383 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 4: states and localities deal with it themselves. 384 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: And I think most. 385 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 4: People respond to that rhetorical environment by treating what's happening 386 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 4: as normal. I think our basic reflex is to see 387 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 4: anything that's happening outside our window. If we're not ourselves, 388 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 4: like fleeing our homes, it's normal. And that's not a 389 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 4: great recipe for dealing with a rapidly changing environment, because 390 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 4: even if what twenty twenty five looks like is not 391 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 4: that different from twenty twenty three, if we tell ourselves 392 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 4: that all of these incremental changes are perfectly acceptable, we're 393 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 4: going to find ourselves in a completely different world a 394 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 4: decade from now than the one we're living in today, 395 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 4: When already we're living in a completely different world than 396 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 4: the world our parents and grandparents live down. 397 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: Can you say a little more about that, because that 398 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: I think is really important. I mean, it feels like 399 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: what we saw with COVID. I had always thought, very naively, 400 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: perhaps that at some point people would be like, this 401 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: is enough. But that's not what's happened. 402 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: The opposite. 403 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 4: Has that happened right? Like, we were much more alarmed, 404 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 4: we were much more motivated, We were much more unified 405 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 4: in our response to the pandemic when the death toll 406 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 4: numbered in the hundreds or thousands than we were when 407 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 4: it passed one hundred thousand, than we were when it 408 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 4: passed five hundred thousand, then we were when we passed 409 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 4: a million. I mean, it's amazing now looking kind of 410 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 4: looking back quote unquote on the pandemic, how much the 411 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 4: memory of that experience was like based in the first 412 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 4: couple of months, and how much most of the duration 413 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 4: of the you know, the last few years we spent 414 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 4: just kind of like accepting quite large volumes of human 415 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 4: death and learning or bringing ourselves to be irritated by 416 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 4: the relatively minor intrusions of mitigation measures that you know, 417 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 4: we were sort of asked to embrace, Like we just 418 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 4: we normalize that death rate so quickly. I mean, you know, 419 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 4: I work at the Times that famously, The Times put 420 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 4: a banner headline on, you know, across all the columns 421 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 4: of the front page, when one hundred thousand Americans died. 422 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 4: They literally listed the names of every American who had 423 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 4: died at that point. And we've now, depending on how 424 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 4: you want to account, we've seen at least eleven times 425 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 4: as many people has died at that point. Some measures 426 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 4: are say as much as fifteen times as many Americans 427 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 4: have died at that point, and we're just not doing 428 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 4: anything like the kind of memorialization or reckoning with that 429 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 4: beyond even that we are I think many of us 430 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 4: looking back on the pandemic almost as though those deaths 431 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 4: were inevitable and disconnected from our policy, and telling stories 432 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 4: about the last few years that are primarily about the 433 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 4: way that they interfered with our daily lives and not 434 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 4: about the fact that a million Americans died. And I 435 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 4: think climate change is, you know, unfortunately already following a 436 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 4: similar path, which is to say, we kind of take 437 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 4: for granted some large amount of suffering, judge our response 438 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 4: based on the disruptions tour to our life, and don't 439 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 4: really focus on like the pretty grim impacts on the 440 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 4: people who are suffering most. 441 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: A thing I never saw before the pandemic was this 442 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: idea that were these people who were like climate normalizers, 443 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, the way that you had anti vaxers, right, 444 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: you have people who say, like, you know, one hundred 445 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: and fifteen is no big deal, We've had one hundred 446 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: and fifteen forever. I mean, it feels like a very 447 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: concerted effort. 448 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 4: Well, I think that you know, one thing that changed 449 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 4: over the last couple of years is that Elon Musk 450 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 4: bought Twitter and he changed a lot of the engagement algorithms, 451 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 4: which means that you know, a lot of what someone 452 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: like me sees now on social media is it's a 453 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: lot more full of people who are skeptical, if not 454 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 4: in our right denial of climate than were before. But 455 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 4: I think it's also a natural social outgrowth of living 456 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 4: through extremes, which is like one response we all have, 457 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 4: even those of us who are really alarmed in living 458 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 4: through some of these events, is to say, well, we 459 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 4: basically survived, and that's true, Like you know, it's not 460 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 4: like eighty percent of Phoenix is dead because of those temperatures. 461 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 4: Like most of Phoenix surviving. They are going to have 462 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 4: significant excess tests this summer, I would guess. But you know, 463 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 4: even significant excess tests, you're still talking about something that 464 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: in a city of several million people is functionally on 465 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 4: the margins. And it's very easy, even kind of natural 466 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 4: for those of us who are survivorship bias, but to 467 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 4: survive those events and look back and say, Okay, well 468 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 4: that may have seemed really scary, you know in prospect, 469 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 4: but in retrospect, we made it. And I think that's 470 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 4: you know, we're likely to see a fair amount more 471 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 4: of that, And I don't even think that it's entirely 472 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 4: unhealthy or unreasonable. I do think that, like we can 473 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 4: point to adaptations and innovations and social response to some 474 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 4: of these really intense climate events and say, Okay, well, 475 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 4: like that didn't totally devastate us in the way that 476 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 4: we might have expected. Human life will be damaged by 477 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 4: these assaults from climate change going forward, but we may 478 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 4: also be able to navigate them in a way that 479 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 4: allows something like quote unquote normal life to continue. And 480 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 4: in fact, probably we will find a way, even if 481 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 4: that also involves normalizing say, you know, ten thousand deaths 482 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 4: a year every summer in Phoenix. 483 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: I almost feel like we need to talk about what's 484 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: happening in Texas because that is a really interesting phenomenon. 485 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: You have the reddest state filled with the biggest assholes. 486 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: If you'll excuse my French, I can say that because 487 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: we're not on television, they're surviving on renewables. 488 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 4: The Texas state legislature tried to recap the renewable business 489 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 4: this spring. There were conservatives who are pushing that measure 490 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 4: in the in the state legislature were pushed back by 491 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 4: other conservatives who looked at the numbers and said, wait, 492 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 4: if we limit renewable deployment, that means that energy prices 493 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 4: are going to be higher, right, And this seems to 494 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 4: me to be a really significant reversal from where we 495 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 4: were just a few years ago, where you know, climate 496 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 4: skeptical conservatives would say, well, we just need to let 497 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 4: the market decide. We can't distort the market by subst 498 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 4: renewable energy, and they were kind of like there were 499 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 4: free marketeers in the name of fossil energy. And now 500 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 4: we're in a situation for a number of reasons, including 501 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 4: the IRA, but also just natural market forces where renewables 502 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 4: are a preferable alternative to fossil fuels, and you have 503 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 4: fossil friendly conservatives now rallying against the force of the 504 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 4: free market. So they're basically trying to and in the 505 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 4: way of what is naturally occurring in a place like Texas, 506 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 4: where renewables are growing rapidly. Texas is the most renewable 507 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 4: rich state in the country. I believe they have twice 508 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 4: as much solar capacity as they had on the grid 509 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 4: even last year, and it's the reason they're not having 510 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 4: blackouts at the moment, Like you said, I think the 511 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 4: longer term story year is really interesting in the sense 512 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 4: of how quickly and how fully those trajectories will at 513 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 4: least neutralize climate as a partisan issue and maybe even 514 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 4: flip it or reverse it. Because in the year or 515 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 4: so almost a year since the IRA was passed, we've 516 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 4: had much much more clean energy investment in red states 517 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 4: and red districts than we have in blue, blue states 518 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 4: and blue districts. And you know, I think ultimately that 519 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 4: is going to have a political impact. I don't know 520 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 4: how quickly, I don't know how significantly, but I do 521 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 4: think it's already notable when you look at the midterms 522 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 4: that you know, Republicans were just not running against the IRA, 523 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 4: they were basically standing on the sidelines, not mentioning it. 524 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 4: And I think we're starting to see that sort of 525 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 4: transformation of climate from a predictable, partisan, polarizing issue to 526 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 4: one in which, you know, the truth is like the 527 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 4: market is doing its thing, and most people, even on 528 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 4: the right side of the aisle, are at least comfortable 529 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 4: with it, if not applotting it out right. 530 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: That's hopeful in my mind, and I'm kind of surprised 531 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: by it. So I'd love you to just talk about 532 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: it for another second, because you know, what I've seen 533 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: with Ron DeSantis and some of these conservatives is this 534 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: active anti you know. I mean, I'm thinking of Ron 535 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: de Santis this weekend said the bud Light need to 536 00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: be punished for putting diversity and inclusion before capitalism, or 537 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: something to that effect. So I wonder just how much 538 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: conservatives will try to punish green energy just because they 539 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: think it works for them. 540 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 4: You know, there's still some certainly some resistance on the right, 541 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 4: certainly some reflexive kind of cultural war skepticism among Republicans 542 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 4: across the country about climate issues. That's definitely there. It 543 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 4: will continue to some extent. You still have a fair 544 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 4: number of states attorneys general who are like fighting these 545 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 4: ESG policies as a sort of trojan horse for you know, 546 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 4: pushing back climate policies. I think, you know, all of 547 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 4: that is happening. I don't mean to suggest that, like 548 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 4: we're all in Kumbay Island and everybody on the life, 549 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 4: but I also think, you know, it's significant to me 550 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 4: that like Ron DeSantis, in building his presidential campig first 551 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 4: of all, he's a missile is going down or whatever. 552 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 4: He's not a sign of the future of the party. 553 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 4: Even as he's building his presidential campaign. He's not screaming 554 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 4: about clean energy, No, he's not. He's screaming about issues 555 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 4: and schools and to some extent, you know, COVID restrictions 556 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 4: and lockdowns, although I think that's a loser for him too. 557 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 4: But you know, in general, the Party as a whole, 558 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 4: while they retain some amount of climate skepticism and they're 559 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 4: not exactly about to like make AOC secretary of Energy 560 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 4: or whatever, they are also not focused on energy issues 561 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 4: and climate issues in the way that they were absolutely 562 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 4: focused on healthcare in the aftermath of Obamacare. And you 563 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 4: have a massive bill that passed by the narrowest of 564 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 4: margins last fall for the IRA, a huge bill, probably 565 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 4: three or four times the size that the CBO estimated, 566 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 4: because the legislators kind of tricked the CBO into making 567 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 4: it seem like a smaller bill was And like the 568 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 4: Republican response has been basically silenced, I mean, you know, 569 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 4: not totally silenced. There have been little burst protests here 570 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 4: and there, but they're basically like, okay, fine, like let 571 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 4: that become law. Let that become the law of the land. 572 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 4: We're going to argue with you about all these totally 573 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 4: trivial kind of virtual reality combats kinds of politics, and 574 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 4: that's where that party is now. That's depressed. It's distressing, 575 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 4: it's horrible for the country in a million ways. But 576 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 4: I think it also leaves whole areas of policy to 577 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 4: be directed by those people who really care about making 578 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 4: a difference, which is to say, primarily people on the left. 579 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 4: It's not just climate policy, but climate is the best 580 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 4: illustration of that right. 581 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: No, no, for sure, and it is quite interesting. One 582 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: last question. The countries with the worst pro fuel propaganda America, 583 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. How much of what we're thinking is influenced 584 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: by fossil fuels and how we experience the world is 585 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: influenced by successful fossil fuel propaganda. 586 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 4: I think it's really hard to untangle a lot of 587 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 4: that stuff and say, you know, it's like Exon's mind tricks, 588 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 4: as opposed to American culture, which has been shaped over 589 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 4: decades by our love affair with cars in the open road, 590 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 4: which is in part because of what fossil fuel companies 591 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 4: we're doing, but also has a lot of other stuff 592 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 4: going on. It's absolutely true that there has been a 593 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 4: propaganda campaign around the world, but maybe most conspicuously in 594 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 4: the US, and it has had some effect on keeping 595 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 4: us invested in connected in a way of life that 596 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 4: is totally unsustainable. And this is not you know, we 597 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 4: often think of this as a really long standing dynamic. 598 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 4: As recently as twenty sixteen, the US was not exporting 599 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 4: a single molecule of oil or gas. By twenty twenty two, 600 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 4: the US was the largest exporter of each of those 601 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 4: in the entire world. So, you know, it's not just 602 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 4: a matter of companies slowing action, although they do that 603 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 4: too in certain areas. We've been dramatically expanding our footprint here, 604 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 4: which is total indictment of US, and I think even 605 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 4: more than the fossil fuel companies themselves, it's an indictment 606 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 4: of the sort of the politicians who have enabled that 607 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 4: to happen. You know, I think a lot about that 608 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 4: famous appearance that Obama made towards the end of his presidency. 609 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 4: Maybe it was in the immediate aftermath when he left 610 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 4: office in Texas, where he was bragging about making the 611 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 4: US the world's largest producer of oil and gas and 612 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 4: then instructed the audience, who are like all to soil 613 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 4: and gas men, to thank him in applot. And you know, 614 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 4: I'm a fan of Obama's I have supported him as 615 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 4: a president, But there's just a way in which we 616 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 4: tell ourselves that we're on the right side of history 617 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 4: and make such large compromises with the forces of the 618 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 4: fossil fuel industry that we end up on the wrong side. 619 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, David. I hope you'll come back. 620 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 621 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 4: Great stuck. 622 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 623 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds 624 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you 625 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend 626 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.