Speaker 1: I know I said this before, but I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: it again. The moment you realize that sex is not
Speaker 1: about you, you will have the best sex of your life.
Speaker 2: Dead ass, baby, I can co sign on that one,
Speaker 2: because it turns out, now that you've unlocked those things,
Speaker 2: sex is all about me, and I want it to
Speaker 2: be all about you.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, deadass.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Kadeen and I'm Devoued, and we're the Ellis's.
Speaker 3: You may know us from posting funny videos with our.
Speaker 4: Voice and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy.
Speaker 3: Wait, I make you need therapy most days. Wow.
Speaker 4: Oh, and one more important thing to mention, we're married, Yes.
Speaker 3: Sir, we are.
Speaker 1: We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of
Speaker 1: Li's most taboo topics, things.
Speaker 4: Most folks don't want to talk about.
Speaker 1: Through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass
Speaker 1: is a term that we say every day. So when
Speaker 1: we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts one hundred
Speaker 1: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Speaker 1: Were about to take pillow talk to our whole new level.
Speaker 4: Dead ass starts right now.
Speaker 3: Story time.
Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna talk to you guys about
Speaker 1: what I was researching when I was going to get
Speaker 1: my vasectomy.
Speaker 3: All right, so don't laugh, don't laugh. What is kind
Speaker 3: of funny?
Speaker 4: The big.
Speaker 3: Yes, fake there is because.
Speaker 1: Remember the number one thing I was looking at is
Speaker 1: if my nut was gonna be wartery. Once I found
Speaker 1: out that my nut was not going to be effected
Speaker 1: by the vasectomy, then I was focusing on the other
Speaker 1: things that was not as important to me. The first
Speaker 1: one was my testosterone level, because there were tons of
Speaker 1: research and stuff that people saying, oh, your testoterone is
Speaker 1: gonna dip, this is gonna happen, And I was like,
Speaker 1: is that really researches, This is opinions that people are
Speaker 1: saying online. So I was just looking and looking and looking,
Speaker 1: And while I was looking, I was just finding out
Speaker 1: that there isn't as much information about the other effects
Speaker 1: of sex for men. For example, we were talking before
Speaker 1: we came on camera about oxytocin levels, and we know
Speaker 1: how oxytocin levels affect children, we know how they affect women,
Speaker 1: but we're not sure about how they affect men, which
Speaker 1: made me realize maybe that's the reason why there's still
Speaker 1: a disconnect is because we're not focusing on the full
Speaker 1: party here, especially if we're all focusing on each other.
Speaker 1: How can we haven't put any focus on how oxytocin
Speaker 1: specifically affects men.
Speaker 4: Very interesting.
Speaker 1: Yes, before we introduce our guests, who you guys pretty
Speaker 1: much know because I talked time on the show.
Speaker 4: We have to run. We have been the block on
Speaker 4: my boo.
Speaker 3: So I think it was about three or four.
Speaker 4: Years nineteen to be exact, five.
Speaker 1: Years wow ago was when we had our guests on.
Speaker 1: So we're going to sing the same song we sang
Speaker 1: then because it's just so fitting.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about sex, baby, Let's talk about you and me.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about all the good things and the bad
Speaker 5: things that made me. Let's talk about sex. Let's talk
Speaker 5: about sex.
Speaker 4: We're gonna die. Let's set people in the crowd.
Speaker 3: I forgot the rapt.
Speaker 2: Portion either, but you probably hear that all the time.
Speaker 2: That's this is so fun.
Speaker 3: They don't rap like that no more.
Speaker 4: They make the stallion kind of. Does I feel she
Speaker 4: gives me nostalgia?
Speaker 2: She does?
Speaker 1: She does, matter of fact, she does. Megan, she is
Speaker 1: you know what she is. She's not a bad performer either.
Speaker 1: Shout out to meg oh girl.
Speaker 2: All right, let's pay some bills and we're gonna come
Speaker 2: back and we're gonna dive in. It's been five years, y'all,
Speaker 2: a lot has changed about our perspective when it comes
Speaker 2: to sex. So we can't wait to, you know, debrief
Speaker 2: with Shannon. Let us know, let her know where we
Speaker 2: are now with things. All right, So let's pay some
Speaker 2: bills and we'll be right back.
Speaker 4: All right, we're back. We want to talk about.
Speaker 2: This story time Hereval told us about earlier in the show.
Speaker 2: But before I do that, I know some of you
Speaker 2: are familiar with our guests today Shan Boo dram or,
Speaker 2: so I want to push.
Speaker 4: You for a story because you gave like an information time.
Speaker 4: What's the story that makes that representative of what you said?
Speaker 1: Well, the story was that, and it actually goes in
Speaker 1: line with what we're talking about. I was trying to
Speaker 1: be of service. I wanted to be of service to
Speaker 1: my wife. At the time, we had just had our
Speaker 1: fourth child, and afterwards she got right back on birth
Speaker 1: control because she had suffered from postpart and pre clamshire.
Speaker 1: And because she'd suffered from that, the doctor said, you know,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't get pregnant again because there's a greater chance
Speaker 1: of you getting pre clamshit during the pregnancy. So she
Speaker 1: got on birth control, and when she got on birth control,
Speaker 1: it was like super heavy periods, headaches, everything was, everything
Speaker 1: was off. And I was I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's been a decade, in about a decade and a half,
Speaker 1: that she's been on some sort of birth control or
Speaker 1: giving birth or pregnant.
Speaker 2: Or postpartum, breastfeeding, all the things right.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, I think it's I thought
Speaker 1: at this time, it's a little unfair for me to
Speaker 1: continue to ask her to do things to her body
Speaker 1: so that we can enjoy sex. So I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: we're not having no more kids. She was like, we're done.
Speaker 1: I was like, we've done. I said, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go ahead and do my part in this finally.
Speaker 3: You know. So I wanted to get a vasectomy, but
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I was concerned about my testosterone levels, and you know,
Speaker 1: you read stuff online, you speak to people. I spoke
Speaker 1: to the urologists and it was just like, your testosterone
Speaker 1: levels will never be affected by vasected me. That is
Speaker 1: a myth that people think is true, but it's not.
Speaker 1: And I'm actually a perfect example of that because it's
Speaker 1: been almost two years and everything about my body has
Speaker 1: changed and also gotten better with how I also how
Speaker 1: I approached my diet.
Speaker 2: I can also attest to the fact that the nut
Speaker 2: consistency is still the same. It's not watery, selling baby,
Speaker 2: It's as it should be.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's still sticky, still sticky, still still thick.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's still like a little that little gummy fled, you know,
Speaker 1: a little gummy and you know it's the same. It's
Speaker 1: exactly the same. So let y'all know. So, gentlemen, if
Speaker 1: you're concerned about having running nut, that's not a thing.
Speaker 3: That's not a thing. So that's what I was. I
Speaker 3: was always.
Speaker 1: About trying to find the best answers so that I
Speaker 1: know I can do this, you know, in an educational way.
Speaker 3: I never want to just guess. And the story for
Speaker 3: me was there.
Speaker 1: Isn't a lot of information about how sex affects men,
Speaker 1: about how oxytocin the need for sex, Like there's no
Speaker 1: studies and probably because most men be like I ain't
Speaker 1: seen enough for no fucking study you know how men
Speaker 1: are like this is like I'm not doing this. But
Speaker 1: it also made me realize, how can we expect women
Speaker 1: to understand what we go through if we're not willing
Speaker 1: to give the information so that they know, you know.
Speaker 3: What I'm saying. And I learned a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3: I learned.
Speaker 1: I would say ninety percent of what I know about
Speaker 1: sex from a woman's perspective from you, because I started
Speaker 1: to say to myself, yes, yes, s yes when.
Speaker 3: When you came.
Speaker 4: Because you know all that and a baggagechis.
Speaker 1: When you came on the show in twenty nineteen, it
Speaker 1: was like a light bulb. It was like, why have
Speaker 1: I spent my whole life asking men about how I
Speaker 1: should try to please my wife?
Speaker 3: And people do that to me now right, they'll come
Speaker 3: up to me.
Speaker 1: I just left Men's con and I met It was
Speaker 1: about fifteen guys at the dinner, and they all in
Speaker 1: some sort of way pulled me aside and say, let
Speaker 1: me ask you a question, man, how do you get
Speaker 1: your wife too? And I said, it's funny you keep
Speaker 1: asking me, but I don't have any of the OROGENI
Speaker 1: zones that she has, so I don't know how to
Speaker 1: tell you.
Speaker 3: How about you ask her?
Speaker 1: But also consult with women, and they're always like, well women,
Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know, there's a person I
Speaker 1: follow who gives you direct advice, and you have to
Speaker 1: choose whether or not you want to listen or not,
Speaker 1: because sometimes men don't want to.
Speaker 3: Hear what it is that women have to say about that.
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing, but if you really want
Speaker 1: to know what you're doing, how about you listen. So
Speaker 1: I've been listening and she's been like, this is different,
Speaker 1: but I like this. But what's been happening is the
Speaker 1: reciprocation has been different. That's why I said in the beginning,
Speaker 1: once you realize that sex isn't about you anymore, that's
Speaker 1: when you have the best sex from your your life.
Speaker 1: But I've also kind of got that from you. I
Speaker 1: can't coin that phrase. I can't coin that phrase, but
Speaker 1: listening to you has really been what's helped our sex
Speaker 1: life a lot.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tell you, guys, why she deserves all
Speaker 2: the accolades. I'm going to give you, like the whole
Speaker 2: run of who sham whom is? She is a certified
Speaker 2: sex educator and intimacy expert. Shan is Bumbles sex and
Speaker 2: relationships expert, the host of the Marriage Pact on the
Speaker 2: Roku channel. That's just amazing, congrats on that. Congratulated you
Speaker 2: since the host of the top podcast Lovers and Friends,
Speaker 2: the workshop facilitator on Netflix Too Hot to Handle, and
Speaker 2: the author of the best selling book which we also
Speaker 2: have and we've read a couple.
Speaker 4: Of times, The Game of the Desire.
Speaker 2: We have the pleasure of speaking with Shan on the
Speaker 2: podcast back in twenty nineteen when we were at a
Speaker 2: different point in our six drive journey or sex journey
Speaker 2: together which is always evolving. Twenty two years in and
Speaker 2: now she's back to talk us through what this next
Speaker 2: chapter is looking like, now that we've implemented some of
Speaker 2: her ways and tips and tricks and knowledge.
Speaker 4: Shan, I'm so happy to have you back there, girl. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, my head is exploding, just because there's
Speaker 4: so many things that you're saying that I.
Speaker 3: Want to get to.
Speaker 4: Okay, so I do, like, let's put a bookmark on this.
Speaker 4: I want to talk about the harm that comes with
Speaker 4: thinking that our bodies are very different, or our rodenus
Speaker 4: zones are very different, and also Liken that to the
Speaker 4: same problem that happens where medically we understand a lot
Speaker 4: about men in certain areas, like we can't get any
Speaker 4: more information on a rectile dysfunction, I can't any more polls,
Speaker 4: any solutions, any more studies. But to your point, when
Speaker 4: it comes to men's need for the cuddle hormone or
Speaker 4: the impact of the cuddle hormone, the need for intimacy,
Speaker 4: their desire for other forms of intimacy that can be
Speaker 4: linked also with brain biology and with physiology, there's nothing
Speaker 4: on that, so that's also kind of a part of that.
Speaker 4: And they're like, it's not a problem. I don't even
Speaker 4: think about it. But because they don't actually want to address
Speaker 4: unless it's they're going bald or their dick's not getting hard,
Speaker 4: that they will study all day long.
Speaker 3: No cap, no cap.
Speaker 1: When I was looking at stuff for the seconomy, all
Speaker 1: of those ads kept coming in hair loss and limp dicks,
Speaker 1: those like I'm looking at research, those ads just kept
Speaker 1: coming in because that's what men really are concerned about.
Speaker 1: And then third on that was getting a six pack,
Speaker 1: like it was that, and then ads like this is.
Speaker 3: Very long for something.
Speaker 4: Probably might not ask for your advice on that because
Speaker 4: you obviously still your woman. Head of hair.
Speaker 2: The head of hair thing we've been working on, and
Speaker 2: it came back.
Speaker 1: My hair actually came back because I was losing a lot.
Speaker 1: I actually did go to see a doctor about that.
Speaker 1: I found out that I did not have male pattern baldness.
Speaker 1: I had stress induced thinning.
Speaker 3: No, not thinning.
Speaker 1: What is it called ALOPECI I only got bold right here.
Speaker 1: And he was just like, dude, if you learn to relax,
Speaker 1: you might be fine. I was like, I'm an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: and I'm a dad, and I'm a husband. Relaxing is
Speaker 1: not part of my thing. So I openly tried a
Speaker 1: lot of different things. I tried PRP when in twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen didn't take. I tried PRF in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: I tried what was the other thing I just did recently,
Speaker 1: the hair follicle thing, and none of those things worked.
Speaker 3: It was when I decided to change my diet. I
Speaker 3: cut out.
Speaker 1: Dairy and people gonna get mad at me. But I
Speaker 1: meditate and I smoke. Remember when you came in and
Speaker 1: I was outside. The first thing I do now when
Speaker 1: I wake up, I go outside. I sit in the sun,
Speaker 1: twenty minutes away from everyone, and I meditate and I
Speaker 1: chill because it allows me to create a space for
Speaker 1: myself where I can just be comfortable and not always
Speaker 1: be on. I think all of those things changing my diet,
Speaker 1: cutting out red meat and all this other stuff helped,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just one thing, you know. Plus some
Speaker 1: of those things might have helped, Like I use rag
Speaker 1: every day too, so you know, so it's like a
Speaker 1: combination of things that's helped me. It's never just one thing.
Speaker 1: So's that's my journey when it comes at least the
Speaker 1: hair loss thing.
Speaker 4: Okay, this actually tees me up to the bigger compliment
Speaker 4: that I want to make. Because when we were talking
Speaker 4: about me coming back, and then yesterday we just chatted
Speaker 4: briefly about what we're going to talk about, a part
Speaker 4: of me was like, it's five years and we're still
Speaker 4: on the same topic. You know, we haven't figured this out.
Speaker 4: And then I listened to the chapter of the book
Speaker 4: this morning. Your book is phenomenal. I got to go
Speaker 4: to the whole thing, but listening to the chapter specifically
Speaker 4: on doing it and doing it and doing it well,
Speaker 4: which I'll listen to three more times phenomenal. Thank you
Speaker 4: such powerful, poignant advice and icky advice, like I love
Speaker 4: the fact that this is going to It's going to
Speaker 4: give some people the cringe because the reality is not
Speaker 4: always the most flowery, most perfect things to say, like
Speaker 4: the stories that both of you like, there's I gotta
Speaker 4: show you my book bark. So I listened to audiobooks
Speaker 4: and book marks and it was like, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 4: I love to hear that.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's funny because Deval has said in
Speaker 2: the past, within the five years, oh, we haven't done
Speaker 2: a sex.
Speaker 4: Episode, and I'm like, what the fuck are we going
Speaker 4: to talk about again? With sex? Like I'm tired of
Speaker 4: talking about it.
Speaker 2: But it's literally like the one thing that when people
Speaker 2: approach us, like he said, guys come and talk to
Speaker 2: him about it.
Speaker 4: It's like, Kadeen, like, how do you keep up?
Speaker 2: How do you have the time and the drive and
Speaker 2: the desire to do it three, four or five times
Speaker 2: a week? Because that's our consistency level. How do I
Speaker 2: get to that? You know, women feeling like they're they're
Speaker 2: inadequate or not being able to keep up with their man.
Speaker 4: So to your point, Shan, whenever we have the sex talk.
Speaker 4: I'm like, we still talk about this shit like people
Speaker 4: haven't figured it out, but I really haven't inspiring because
Speaker 4: it is the number one issue within partnered couples, especially
Speaker 4: long term partner couples, the disparity and sex drive, and
Speaker 4: people are looking for a quick fix. Yeah, and you
Speaker 4: guys are just such a beautiful example of how it's
Speaker 4: a multi layered, multi approach. It takes individual work, it
Speaker 4: takes group work, it takes things that are you're going
Speaker 4: to try that are not going to work, and then
Speaker 4: in the end you end up with a system that
Speaker 4: works for the time being, but life is.
Speaker 3: Lost and it evolves, and it evolves.
Speaker 1: That's why I told her, I think we should continue
Speaker 1: to talk about sex because people still ask even though
Speaker 1: we talked about it. Two nights ago, we had a
Speaker 1: little bit of an argument. One thing I've learned from
Speaker 1: you is women need oxytocin. They need to be touched
Speaker 1: in the health. The other night, my friends were out here,
Speaker 1: My buddy came by. She was in the room by herself.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, this is go lay down for a minute.
Speaker 1: I laid down with her for about thirty minutes until
Speaker 1: she fell asleep. Didn't ask for no sex, didn't want nothing,
Speaker 1: didn't rub my heart beat on her back to let
Speaker 1: her know.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I made it about her and she came out afterwards
Speaker 1: She's like, I just feel a little better.
Speaker 3: I learned that, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Yes, And remember when Cheto was coming over here and
Speaker 1: she said, why don't you go out there with Cheetah?
Speaker 1: I was like, Nah, that goes to one of those
Speaker 1: things you talk about. Men have to learn that if
Speaker 1: we want to give to a woman, it's not always
Speaker 1: giving because I want something in return. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: cuddle with you now because I want to fuck later.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm going to cuddle because I know you need that,
Speaker 1: and when you're good, I'm good.
Speaker 2: But you know what happens because we cuddled and I
Speaker 2: felt like considered in that moment. Now it makes me
Speaker 2: want to fuck you later.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, that's literally what happening.
Speaker 4: The circle of life. You know what I'm saying. Reciprocity. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I want to ask about because we were talking briefly
Speaker 4: about like what we're going to jump into and there
Speaker 4: was a clip that I had online that you're like this,
Speaker 4: you know stuck out to me where I s gave
Speaker 4: the advice that when it comes to sex frequency, the
Speaker 4: person who wants it the least determines how much sex
Speaker 4: you're having. When people are like, what's the magic number
Speaker 4: for how much a couple should be having sex, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 4: ask the person who's least interested. There's the number. What
Speaker 4: are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: My thoughts about that was I I felt like that
Speaker 1: was one sided and unfair. For this reason is because
Speaker 1: with anything else in life, there's always compromised. Why with
Speaker 1: sex is there no compromise? You know, when it comes
Speaker 1: to things, I want to do what she wants to do.
Speaker 1: We always try to find a way to meet in
Speaker 1: the middle. So how come when it comes to sex,
Speaker 1: it's like, no, we're not going to meet in the middle.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna do it when I want to do it.
Speaker 1: That to me just seems unfair. So that was my thoughts.
Speaker 2: Come, that's what he thought, and to me, I was
Speaker 2: just like, see this exactly what I was trying to say.
Speaker 2: Because naturally in the pair, I'm the one who wants
Speaker 2: it the least. I'm usually satisfied. But my caveat once
Speaker 2: I learned that. I realized that there's other ways to
Speaker 2: be intimate and it doesn't always have to be penetration
Speaker 2: and intercourse. Right, So for a long time, Deva has
Speaker 2: been saying to me, kay, like, it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be intercourse every single time, Like that's asking a lot
Speaker 2: of you and your body, especially if you don't want it.
Speaker 2: He said, how about we just do things that are
Speaker 2: different outside of it. So it can be oral sex.
Speaker 2: It can be most recently getting some oil, douncing myself
Speaker 2: in it. He can rub on my breasts, my body
Speaker 2: while I rub on him, Like, there's so many other
Speaker 2: ways to satisfy that sexual appetite. And it finally clicked
Speaker 2: to me after listening to that, I'm like, he really
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to you know.
Speaker 4: I don't want to say suffer because that makes it
Speaker 4: seem like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing, it's not suffering.
Speaker 4: Bad, it's not suffering.
Speaker 2: But he shouldn't have to go at a deficit because
Speaker 2: I'm at a deficit. And it made me feel less
Speaker 2: inadequate because that was something I always used.
Speaker 4: I just never felt like I.
Speaker 2: Was enough and that took a hit for me and
Speaker 2: my ego and I was just thinking, like am I
Speaker 2: not a enough woman for him?
Speaker 4: Am I not enough wife?
Speaker 2: And he would question sometimes like do you even want
Speaker 2: to be a wife, because you know, wives are you're
Speaker 2: supposed to satisfy your husband. And I'm thinking the same thing.
Speaker 2: But it kind of put the power back into you know,
Speaker 2: put me in the driver's sept because I was able
Speaker 2: to take control of the situation, let him feel considered,
Speaker 2: and it didn't require something from my body that I
Speaker 2: didn't want in that moment.
Speaker 4: I actually think the chapter of your book really could
Speaker 4: have been called the person who wants it the least
Speaker 4: controls the frequency, because I think what you did, what
Speaker 4: the two of you have done so beautifully, is that
Speaker 4: is like the frame of reference. Because what the goal
Speaker 4: is isn't for us to have our sexual needs met
Speaker 4: because we have hands, there's toys, there's multiple things. The
Speaker 4: goal is for us to have a sex life that
Speaker 4: is mutually satisfying that we're both enthusiastic about that, we're
Speaker 4: both feel like we're getting our needs met, and that
Speaker 4: we feel like is in line with our greater priorities.
Speaker 4: And that goal is way harder to accomplish, then well
Speaker 4: I'm horny, so let's figure it out. So that's the
Speaker 4: thing is that there's additional work that comes with that.
Speaker 4: Compromise is not zero to one hundred. I don't want it,
Speaker 4: you do, So we compromise and do what you do.
Speaker 4: What you want. The compromise is, let's look at all
Speaker 4: the various factors and figure out how our needs can
Speaker 4: get closer together by us doing the work. Like I
Speaker 4: put a big yes on that part where you're like,
Speaker 4: I had to actually learn our body and research it.
Speaker 4: And then I love what you said too, because you're like,
Speaker 4: it kind of sucked, but I don't have to deal
Speaker 4: with a period. So would I rather learn about a
Speaker 4: period or have to experience it every single month?
Speaker 1: When I learned about it, it really opened me up,
Speaker 1: Like I can't as a young man, no one explains
Speaker 1: to you mentoral cycles at all. You have no idea.
Speaker 1: You go to health class. Health class is half of
Speaker 1: a semester in seventh grade. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like that's all we did. It was we talked about
Speaker 1: condoms and STIs, but no one talks you about during
Speaker 1: a menstrual cycle. There could be a ten to fourteen
Speaker 1: day period where women's hormones could be off she could bleed.
Speaker 1: People think it's oh, it's only five days. Some women
Speaker 1: can bleed longer than five days. Some women bleed so
Speaker 1: heavy that they can't leave the house. A lot of
Speaker 1: these things cause different issues outside of just sex, you know,
Speaker 1: issues with self esteem, issues with feeling sexy because you
Speaker 1: don't know how your partner's gonna respond. The more I
Speaker 1: learned about having a mentrual cycle, I was like, dang,
Speaker 1: women deal with a lot every day. She I don't
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna get to where I think you're going.
Speaker 2: Quick story, quick story. We're on vacation, ended up making
Speaker 2: her a public and I get my period and I'm
Speaker 2: there with my husband and my four boys, right So
Speaker 2: being the queen of the castle, you know, I find
Speaker 2: ways to maneuver and try to keep up with them,
Speaker 2: even though I may not be feeling my best. I
Speaker 2: don't want to leave the bed, but I'm on the beach,
Speaker 2: so sacrifice going in the water.
Speaker 4: The boys are like, mommyhy aren't you in the water today?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, because literally day one and two, like
Speaker 2: I can't even wear a tampon, Like it's just I
Speaker 2: just realized too, I have fibroids. I found that out,
Speaker 2: so it's a whole thing. So we're at dinner that
Speaker 2: evening and I'm like, okay, it's day one, but you know,
Speaker 2: I put on my heavy duty front to back pad
Speaker 2: that goes from like my clapical to my shoulder blades.
Speaker 2: And we're at dinner and on the beach, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden it starts raining. And I only be sitting
Speaker 2: at the table for maybe an hour, hour and a half,
Speaker 2: you know, and I stand up. I was wearing like
Speaker 2: a floral print shorts. But I look at the khaki
Speaker 2: pad on the chair and I've bled through, So of course,
Speaker 2: super embarrassing moment.
Speaker 4: The boys stay. I look down.
Speaker 2: Devalo looks at me. It's like horror. The waiters are nearby.
Speaker 2: We don't know what the boys see. So I'm like scrambling.
Speaker 2: At this point, the rain is coming down. Deval literally
Speaker 2: quickly unties the sides of the cushion, puts it on
Speaker 2: his head, and then runs with me and the boys
Speaker 2: back towards shelter.
Speaker 3: The guy. The guy comes with umbrellas, right like, sir,
Speaker 3: I have an umbrella.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, get the women to distract them, because
Speaker 1: I don't want them to see the blood on the thing.
Speaker 3: I don't want her to be embarrassed.
Speaker 1: I just hut the pillow on my head and then
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, boys, come And Jackson's like what
Speaker 1: is happening?
Speaker 3: Like why why is this so dramatic? It does not
Speaker 3: have to beat his dramatic.
Speaker 2: And then we get upstairs and you know, I'm in
Speaker 2: the shower in one room and Devo's with the cushions
Speaker 2: standing in the shower like shampooing it at this point.
Speaker 2: But then I walk in and I see Jackson's with him,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what's happening? So he goes on to
Speaker 2: then have a conversation with our thirteen year old about
Speaker 2: mom's heavy period. At first, I was like super embarrassed
Speaker 2: and I was like, why are we having this conversation
Speaker 2: with my thirteen year old?
Speaker 4: But then Devo I explained to him.
Speaker 1: I said, I was like, you're in you love women, right, Jackson.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, Dode, So I said, you're you're gonna
Speaker 1: have a woman. One day, She's gonna have a period.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a time where she may have her
Speaker 1: period in a space where it came inconveniently. You can't
Speaker 1: be the Dodos. It's like we'll go figure it out
Speaker 1: or I'm not going to the store to get no paths, Babe,
Speaker 1: how can I help you in this moment? You may
Speaker 1: have to take your jacket, your hoodie or wrapping around
Speaker 1: her waist, like, these are things that may have to happen,
Speaker 1: and I don't want you to be grossed.
Speaker 3: Out as a young man.
Speaker 1: Say you're fifteen, I've been there before with my girlfriend
Speaker 1: and I'm in high school and they're like, oh, so
Speaker 1: and so got her period and she's in the girl's
Speaker 1: bathroom and you know what I'm saying. Everybody said, what
Speaker 1: does that? And no one knows what that means? But
Speaker 1: then people are looking around and then she's embarrassing. I'm like,
Speaker 1: if that's your girlfriend, you got to step in and
Speaker 1: you have to be like, yo, I got this?
Speaker 3: You going? Yo? How can I help in this? What
Speaker 3: do you need to get?
Speaker 1: And he was like okay, And then I to him
Speaker 1: about K's moods before her period, during and after. So
Speaker 1: now Jackson is like when he sees moms in the
Speaker 1: room with the blanket up and heat and he's just
Speaker 1: like he's like she's on a lady Tom and I
Speaker 1: was just like yeah, And he's like, is there anything
Speaker 1: that I can do? And I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 1: give your mom some space, go and check on and
Speaker 1: maybe give her hugs. So now the youngest boys, they'll
Speaker 1: all go in there and jump on her a little bit,
Speaker 1: give a hug, but then.
Speaker 3: Give her some space.
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to teach them to understand what women
Speaker 1: go through so that it's not a shock when you
Speaker 1: have a girlfriend or when you want to have sex
Speaker 1: with your girlfriend. As seventeen and she's like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: on my period, Jack's and you're like.
Speaker 3: So, S'm so close, listen you have Well we.
Speaker 4: Were both conversations sooner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know to your point, Sham like probably earlier
Speaker 2: than seventeen too.
Speaker 3: That's about I say. We were both having sex earl
Speaker 3: and seventeen.
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to sit here and play that
Speaker 1: guy you know about just abstinence. At some point they're
Speaker 1: going to have sex. I just want them to learn
Speaker 1: to respect and understand what women are going through so
Speaker 1: that they can help, you know, in the process, but
Speaker 1: also just you know, be aware, like don't don't be
Speaker 1: a jackass. Don't say things like I was a jackass
Speaker 1: when I was young. I said things and not knowing,
Speaker 1: like she was pregnant. Why are you acting so crazy?
Speaker 1: My mom was pregnant, had three kids and went to work.
Speaker 1: We't the first women to have a baby, I hated,
Speaker 1: you know, the first person to have a baby. Why
Speaker 1: you act like this? I didn't know better, I had
Speaker 1: no knowledge of what it was. I literally, I'm twenty six.
Speaker 1: Then how the baby? The baby come out? We'd be
Speaker 1: good now we's three of us, That's what I thought.
Speaker 4: And your dad never had those conversations with you, obviously.
Speaker 1: You know my dad said to me about sex, you'
Speaker 1: having sex? Say yes, you know there's condums in my drawer,
Speaker 1: Say yeah, in the bottom right, Say cool? And that
Speaker 1: was it. My mom never talked to me about women's
Speaker 1: health ever. Like what my mom ever said to me was,
Speaker 1: this is our bodies and we don't have to do
Speaker 1: what you want us to do.
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Like, I like, I'm sixteen, I don't know what that means, mom,
Speaker 1: but whatever, you know. So I just want to be
Speaker 1: better for my sons so that they can understand, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: can we just clap.
Speaker 3: That was so beautiful. How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it made me feel seen, It made
Speaker 2: me feel loved on, It made me feel inspired to
Speaker 2: want to even share more with my boys from a
Speaker 2: female's perspective as well, like it's great to hear from dad, right,
Speaker 2: but that kind of almost gave me the green light
Speaker 2: as well too, to say, these conversations need to be
Speaker 2: had because similar to the devour my Mom, everything surrounding
Speaker 2: sex and menstruation and all that was just awkward.
Speaker 4: It was like, here's the book. If you have questions,
Speaker 4: let me know.
Speaker 2: But I think we're just more open as maybe some
Speaker 2: millennial thing, or maybe it's because you know, you know better,
Speaker 2: you do better, or seeing people around us make those
Speaker 2: mistakes growing up that we just want our boys to
Speaker 2: be equipped with like all of the tools.
Speaker 1: And there's no knock on our parents like that generation,
Speaker 1: that's how things were done like that. The next generation
Speaker 1: are probably going to look back at us and be
Speaker 1: like y'a to and discuss this, right, and then we'll
Speaker 1: have to do better, but right, And I don't want
Speaker 1: to knock my parents.
Speaker 3: Yeah they were good.
Speaker 2: I mean we turned out pretty all right, So I
Speaker 2: think they did, but you know, sometimes not. My mom
Speaker 2: and dad will look like, you guys are talking to
Speaker 2: them about what you know did I had talked to
Speaker 2: Jackson about like how to drink whiskey or something, and
Speaker 2: my mom was just like, is that a necessary conversation? No, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is, because do we want to go out and
Speaker 2: get shit faced at a club because he's drinking all
Speaker 2: the different things? And then no, we want to educate
Speaker 2: them on the things that are taboo so they can
Speaker 2: be equipped to make the right decisions. You know, kids
Speaker 2: are going to fuck up anyway, but at least if
Speaker 2: they have a little something in the back of their
Speaker 2: brain saying, oh shit, Dad didn't warm me about that,
Speaker 2: or Mom mentioned this, like, oh it makes more sense.
Speaker 4: I just like, I just couldn't give enough claps and
Speaker 4: snaps and stomps or whatever it takes just to congratulate
Speaker 4: you guys on just how beautiful and open you are.
Speaker 4: And a big part of that is being willing to
Speaker 4: ask for help and being willing to look for solutions.
Speaker 4: And I feel like what you guys have is something
Speaker 4: that I think is really hard to find in relationships,
Speaker 4: and it's really hard to find when we bring sex
Speaker 4: into the play, which is unconditional positive regard. Like I
Speaker 4: just actually, I think you're a good person. I think
Speaker 4: you're an amazing person. I think you want to satisfy
Speaker 4: my needs. You're an amazing husband, you're an amazing wife.
Speaker 4: And so if we are figure having issues, then we
Speaker 4: need to look at this together and start to assess
Speaker 4: both of us. Like, I love that you both went
Speaker 4: to somebody to go figure out, and we've got some
Speaker 4: potions and lotions. You went to Google, started looking at stuff,
Speaker 4: You started looking at yourself, So there was this independent
Speaker 4: work happening because you're not like, well, my husband is
Speaker 4: the problem or my wife is the problem. It's like
Speaker 4: this is the problem.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: We both acknowledge that this is where it's at. We
Speaker 4: respect where it's at, we understand why it's here, and
Speaker 4: we both reject this as being our norm. And no
Speaker 4: one person is responsible for helping this change to come
Speaker 4: to fruition, right, And there's no timeline on it, and
Speaker 4: there was no one single thing that fixed it.
Speaker 3: No, really, there wasn't. The one thing you brought up
Speaker 3: was the positive regard.
Speaker 1: One thing I constantly reiterate to Kaden is that I
Speaker 1: know we may have discussions or disagreements, but not at
Speaker 1: any point that I ever say, Kadeen, you're doing this
Speaker 1: to me on purpose to make me upset. Right, And
Speaker 1: as long as I kept reiterating that to her, it's like,
Speaker 1: we're just at a space where we're in different lanes.
Speaker 1: We're just in different lanes. You're not trying to be
Speaker 1: in this lane on purpose. I'm not trying to be
Speaker 1: in this lane. We're just in different lanes. So let's
Speaker 1: work at it. And I notice sometimes she needs to
Speaker 1: hear that because we have the conversation sometimes and she's
Speaker 1: still a very emotional person and she feels inadequate, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, Babe, I'm not saying that you're a demon
Speaker 1: and you're doing this on purpose. And I watch her
Speaker 1: go okay, because I'm really not, and I'm like.
Speaker 2: You're not.
Speaker 4: You need to hear that something I do. You're just
Speaker 4: I don't think you're crazy. I don't think you're bad,
Speaker 4: I don't think you're a bad mom. I don't think
Speaker 4: you're an idiot. Yeah, we actually need to make sure
Speaker 4: that our partner doesn't feel that.
Speaker 2: So I second, Yeah, it's almost like we're at two
Speaker 2: different sides of the ring, right, So to your point, Shan,
Speaker 2: it's like making the necessary steps on each side so
Speaker 2: we can meet in the middle and we can wrestle,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 4: And I think that's.
Speaker 2: Essentially what we are starting to get at, and we're
Speaker 2: really and you think about it. Octoberly, twenty two years
Speaker 2: since we've started dating.
Speaker 4: Have you guys not had sex with anybody else for
Speaker 4: twenty two years? Twenty two years?
Speaker 1: No, I had sex with one other person. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I had sex with one other person.
Speaker 4: All right within our dating within our dating Spanah, what's
Speaker 4: the stretch of like you've been the only person I
Speaker 4: e that's me twenty two years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and for me it's been how many years
Speaker 3: we've been married.
Speaker 4: Oh we're married fourteen years.
Speaker 3: Year, fourteen years, fourteen years older than any other kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, So imagine trying to like reinvent yourself and
Speaker 2: like grow through it all.
Speaker 4: It's like, what does that look like?
Speaker 3: I do want to say this though, and people don't
Speaker 3: realize this.
Speaker 1: I enjoy sex still after fourteen years. People think, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's not a thing, Like you still enjoy having
Speaker 1: sex with the same person.
Speaker 2: A right, what's the saying like there's no better pussy
Speaker 2: than new pussy or something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the saying.
Speaker 2: But I think the freedom that we have knowing that,
Speaker 2: like we're committed and we can literally do anything with
Speaker 2: each other. We introduced the toys like Shannon walked in
Speaker 2: here with a nice big box of like shrikes. She
Speaker 2: came in here like the fairy god sex mother or
Speaker 2: sex godmother rather. But I mean, I think there's ways
Speaker 2: that we've been trying to reinvent ourselves and then keep
Speaker 2: up with drives and then go through all of the
Speaker 2: transitions between workloaths and having children and coming back after
Speaker 2: that like somebody needs to give us a metal.
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, I feel like I need to do that.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm in the host chair now, so
Speaker 4: I'm gonna shut up after this. But no, it's all
Speaker 4: good because some people when they're following your journey period,
Speaker 4: there's a million things to follow, and congratulations on all
Speaker 4: of it, even in five years, how much you guys
Speaker 4: have grown in your family and then in your personal
Speaker 4: endeavors as a unit. The book, all of it is
Speaker 4: just so incredible. But if people are like I saw
Speaker 4: the viral clip, but three years ago where you were like,
Speaker 4: why do women ask for monogamy?
Speaker 1: Yes, we just talked about that with the UH, with
Speaker 1: a Men's con and with Nice and Neat podcasts.
Speaker 3: We literally just talked about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So there's that viral clip. There's the discussions you
Speaker 4: guys have had around disparities and sex drive. There's probably
Speaker 4: been judgment on your end from men, there's been judgment
Speaker 4: on your end from women. Update people on like where
Speaker 4: you're at on this journey today?
Speaker 1: I would say on this journey, we're still on the journey,
Speaker 1: but we've matured a lot to understand that I can't
Speaker 1: expect I can't expect my partner to know how I
Speaker 1: feel just because she's my partner. I have to eloquently
Speaker 1: articulate how I feel. And when I say eloquently articulate,
Speaker 1: I can't just jump out the window and be like
Speaker 1: what the fuck. I have to find a way to
Speaker 1: speak to her in a way that she can receive it,
Speaker 1: because a lot of times impact is not always the
Speaker 1: same as intent. Right, I intended to say something, but
Speaker 1: the way it impacted you when it didn't land properly,
Speaker 1: So now everything I said and all my intention is lost.
Speaker 1: So I've just had to learn, like you know, listen,
Speaker 1: sex is always going to change. Figured something out in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and it was like, ah, it's fixed. And
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one we get pregnant again, and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, all of those things that we liked
Speaker 1: and knew that was the norm has changed. What am
Speaker 1: I going to fix now? I've also learned to enjoy
Speaker 1: the process of trying to fix it as opposed to
Speaker 1: sitting back and being so mad that we got to
Speaker 1: talk about sex again.
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 3: What's on date nights is yo, what are you? What
Speaker 3: are you into now? Like?
Speaker 1: What is what is it that you think you want
Speaker 1: to try? Differently like consistently dating my wife and being
Speaker 1: interested in how her body's changing, because this woman here
Speaker 1: has not been the same from year to year. And
Speaker 1: I've also enjoyed that because it's like it's like a
Speaker 1: different journey. You know how they say there's no pussy
Speaker 1: like new pussy. I feel like I get a new
Speaker 1: pussy every years changed, you know, it changes, you know,
Speaker 1: So I've enjoyed it. It's like a mystery, Like I
Speaker 1: love puzzles. I do a Rubics cube every day, so
Speaker 1: it's like, this is my Rublescube.
Speaker 3: Every day. What do I got to do.
Speaker 1: Today to solve this puzzle to unlock it? So they're
Speaker 1: all the sides of the same right, you know. So
Speaker 1: it's been fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been fun, but it's also been.
Speaker 2: Eye opening for me because I've realized the power in
Speaker 2: really just having calm, controlled discussions about what we require.
Speaker 2: You know, something that might have been a green light
Speaker 2: before is now a red light, or some things that
Speaker 2: were kind of like I'm teetering on yellow.
Speaker 4: It's like said in the book.
Speaker 2: I was like, like, what what are we introducing now?
Speaker 2: Maybe look through your little box over there and see
Speaker 2: what toys you got. But that was one of the things,
Speaker 2: introducing toys that we were both comfortable with or trying
Speaker 2: something that may have been like I don't know, but
Speaker 2: then it like hit the ball out of the park.
Speaker 2: There also used to be issues with having the discussion
Speaker 2: about sex, and it would drag and it would drag
Speaker 2: into you know, being pissed at each other for the night.
Speaker 4: We're sleeping on opposite sides of the bed.
Speaker 2: We wake up in the morning and then we're carrying
Speaker 2: that bad energy throughout the day and now it's like
Speaker 2: if there is a disconnect, we'll talk about it, we'll
Speaker 2: try to figure it out in that moment.
Speaker 4: Then somebody breaks the ice, usually de Velle.
Speaker 2: I'll give you your credit for like coming in and
Speaker 2: rapping me in the cuddle. Hormone you know, that starts
Speaker 2: to kind of brew and then we'll end up having
Speaker 2: a great love making session, or it'll be like poundtown
Speaker 2: because like, you fucking annoyed me. You annoyed me, so
Speaker 2: let's just you know, dupe this out and then we're
Speaker 2: just laughing at the end of it, like what were
Speaker 2: we even arguing about to begin with. So it's the
Speaker 2: evolution of what our sex life has been. It's been interesting.
Speaker 2: It's been a rollercoaster. Now that I no longer have
Speaker 2: an IUD in me and he's had the visectomy, I'm
Speaker 2: seeing how my body is starting to regulate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had my hormones level check.
Speaker 2: Hormone levels checked as well too, so they chested my
Speaker 2: you know, estrogen, my testosterone. Like those are also things
Speaker 2: that I've looked into because I'm like, if there's supplements
Speaker 2: that I need to take or something that can help
Speaker 2: me better have control over my body, or if it's
Speaker 2: going to help my sex drive, then why not?
Speaker 4: Because I'm trying to match homeboy over here. Like you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. I want him to be ultimately satisfied.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to just quick if you just did
Speaker 4: like a visual display of like where you were, if
Speaker 4: you're like here on the sex drive barometer before and
Speaker 4: opposite ends.
Speaker 3: Are you like here now? Are you here?
Speaker 1: If if I had to say, like say, for example,
Speaker 1: before when it was like optit zero, before it was
Speaker 1: like ten and zero, and then after we got off
Speaker 1: of the birth control, it was more like ten to
Speaker 1: three once I got to vasectomy and she wasn't concerned
Speaker 1: about getting pregnant.
Speaker 3: Now it's more like seven to ten.
Speaker 1: I guess it's closer now, like and before when it
Speaker 1: was just like I don't know she's going to be
Speaker 1: into it today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's always into it now yeah.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I'll go in with the expectation I should say, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: tonight's about him, so I'm gonna jerk him off, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give him head.
Speaker 4: I'm shouldn't be it's him.
Speaker 2: But in the middle of that, even I may not
Speaker 2: even be thinking about sex, I'm like this is just
Speaker 2: for him, but seeing how he reacts to me, I'd
Speaker 2: be like, you know what, let me do that thing
Speaker 2: and real quick.
Speaker 4: Because I end up wanting it.
Speaker 3: And that's why I suspect.
Speaker 4: Yeah, before it.
Speaker 1: Used to be I'm gonna do this, but I'm just
Speaker 1: going I'm gonna roll my eyes, I'm gonna you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna suck my teeth. You get your nunt right.
Speaker 1: You said you want it to nothing. I'm nothing like,
Speaker 1: don't make this a thing, and I'm like, dang, this
Speaker 1: is not I'm not enjoying this right, But now a
Speaker 1: lot of times it's just like baby, I just want
Speaker 1: to jerk you off. I just want to give your head.
Speaker 1: So now I'm sitting back and enjoying the head. And
Speaker 1: then she stands up. I'm like what happened and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like all right, well let's go. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, I didn't expect you to want
Speaker 1: it because we've done it two nights in the row.
Speaker 1: The third night, I automatically know, like typically she's going
Speaker 1: through something, either she's sore or she's like, babe, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm good. Now She like, nah, I want something
Speaker 1: that was never the case before. So I would say
Speaker 1: ten to seven.
Speaker 4: You know, ten and seven, that's crazy from zero from zero,
Speaker 4: it's gonna jump from like four to seven, said astronomical jump.
Speaker 3: Jan, It's a complete complete change.
Speaker 1: But but will I will say to something that you
Speaker 1: spoke about, and I wanted to ask you this too,
Speaker 1: oxytoastin and testosterone. We never discuss like how men get
Speaker 1: affected by that?
Speaker 3: Why is that?
Speaker 4: Can I just want I just want to jump back
Speaker 4: to the sex talk thing and then we go right
Speaker 4: into this it comes afterwards, and feel free to cut
Speaker 4: me out here, But I just wanted to say, because
Speaker 4: just going back to that comment of who wants it
Speaker 4: the least determines how much sex you have, I feel
Speaker 4: like when you're at that place of ten and zero,
Speaker 4: the first step is to do what you guys did,
Speaker 4: which is the hard individual work of really asking yourself,
Speaker 4: like why is my drive low? Talking to a doctor,
Speaker 4: talking to friends, really assessing what your own levels are,
Speaker 4: getting a baseline understanding of like why am I at
Speaker 4: where I'm at today, and then at that point you
Speaker 4: could start to come up with some solutions for it. Okay,
Speaker 4: here's what my turn on triggers are here's what I
Speaker 4: feel like anymore of in the relationship, more in the bedroom,
Speaker 4: more when it comes to my health. Like those, you
Speaker 4: can start to do the tr trial period and then
Speaker 4: once you have that information. Because I love what you
Speaker 4: guys are talking about right now, which really speaks to
Speaker 4: something people need to understand about sex drives, specifically in
Speaker 4: longer term relationships, is there's not just one kind of
Speaker 4: desire anymore, and the media really places one kind of
Speaker 4: desire on a pedestal as the only legitimate desire, and
Speaker 4: that spontaneous desire where I just naturally want it.
Speaker 3: I look at you.
Speaker 4: You talked about in the book, that like feeling of
Speaker 4: we weren't even planning it, but my body just took over.
Speaker 4: And there's something really beautiful about spontaneous desire. But doesn't
Speaker 4: discount the fact that majority of people in long term
Speaker 4: relationships won't feel that anymore. And there's actually a good
Speaker 4: scientific reason why you can't. Oh really, because and I
Speaker 4: love this fact. This is from Helen Fisher. She said,
Speaker 4: she's a neuro biologist that if people continue to feel
Speaker 4: that rush every time their partner past, that like butterflies
Speaker 4: in your stomach, your pupils dilate, your heart quickens, your
Speaker 4: lips rush with blood, your genitals rush with blood. That
Speaker 4: process is actually really stressful on the body, so it
Speaker 4: would shorten your life expectancy. It damages tissue, it causes
Speaker 4: a cortisol spider.
Speaker 3: So there's literally a reason why the.
Speaker 4: Base you guys, you work together, you parent together, and
Speaker 4: you're experiencing continuous, spontaneous desire. It's almost like being back
Speaker 4: in middle school where you're like, why do I have
Speaker 4: a boner during this religion class?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: This is not the time?
Speaker 2: Right? Right?
Speaker 4: Does that make sense? Though?
Speaker 3: Not so good.
Speaker 4: Because and you have experienced what's called responsive desire, and
Speaker 4: that means okay, once we're actually engaged in the act,
Speaker 4: maybe five minutes in, sometimes responsive desire does not kick in.
Speaker 4: I don't really feel like reciprocating, but sometimes mid ten
Speaker 4: minutes in, that's my body is like, okay, now I'm
Speaker 4: starting to turn on the rest of those systems that
Speaker 4: get me into a state of arousal and of reciprocally
Speaker 4: wanting it, which should always be the goal.
Speaker 1: See see once again the scientific facts. As a man,
Speaker 1: when your wife doesn't desire you the same way, spontaneously
Speaker 1: you feel like something's wrong with you.
Speaker 3: I've asked K before, like, yo, is it me?
Speaker 1: Because when we was in college, like the minute I
Speaker 1: walk in the room, you like, and then we just
Speaker 1: at each other.
Speaker 3: But now it's like, what is it? She's like, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: Now to understand that there's actually a scientific reason as
Speaker 1: to why people's bodies changed like that, it makes me
Speaker 1: feel like, oh, I understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not internalizing anymore. He's like, should I grow
Speaker 2: the beard back? You know? Yo?
Speaker 4: I did I lose like two ads?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: She wants me to be leaner. Do you want me
Speaker 4: to be bigger?
Speaker 2: And I was just like no, I'm still attracted to you,
Speaker 2: like you're the guy for me, Like you're my You're
Speaker 2: my dream, You're everything come true.
Speaker 1: But I just but I sometimes I don't think women
Speaker 1: understand what men go through. I still get a boner
Speaker 1: when she walking a room, yes on everything, Like she
Speaker 1: walked out. I was outside, she walked down this green
Speaker 1: thing and the minute she turned around, it was like
Speaker 1: she walked back inside. I was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, gosh, I gotta get this down before.
Speaker 3: I walk back. I guess and she'll tell you.
Speaker 1: We'll be out somewhere about to do an interview and
Speaker 1: she'll be like whispering to me to say something.
Speaker 3: I'll look at her, She's like what, and I'm like
Speaker 3: I can't stand up, and she'd.
Speaker 1: Like the bath and I'm like, I literally did not
Speaker 1: ask for this, Like I was not asking for this.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I feel like she looks at me like
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? And I'm like, my body
Speaker 1: just responding to you.
Speaker 2: I'm not I feel like okay, because I'm not like
Speaker 2: dripping wet every time I see you, like is there
Speaker 2: something wrong with me now? So I'm always in this
Speaker 2: constant like raised to keep up with him and then
Speaker 2: questioning like why can't get there or why require.
Speaker 4: A little bit more?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: Do you know what's interesting? Kind of not on topic,
Speaker 4: but kind of on topic. But Sarah Perell, whom do
Speaker 4: you guys follow, so phenomenal. She's in the white world,
Speaker 4: but she's the queen of the white world when it
Speaker 4: comes to sex and relationships. And she said that based
Speaker 4: only there was an anecdotal study of her practice or
Speaker 4: an actual study, that women are turned on by men
Speaker 4: who are great fathers, but doesn't work there the way around.
Speaker 4: So you're talking about the ways the times that she
Speaker 4: turns you on, but like you might desire him deeply,
Speaker 4: but in times that are not necessarily sexual.
Speaker 3: No, that's true. That's that's that's very true. True.
Speaker 1: A lot of women say this and we don't want
Speaker 1: to hear it when they say stuff like you know,
Speaker 1: you know what turns me on doing the laundry, picking
Speaker 1: the kids up the school, and you just want me
Speaker 1: to do chores.
Speaker 3: No, it's true.
Speaker 2: Here the shirt off changing some white balls outside the
Speaker 2: other day, and.
Speaker 3: I was just like okay, and I'm like, the.
Speaker 4: Shirt off, playing it all with the kids. No, it
Speaker 4: was like the kids holding the ladder and like holding.
Speaker 2: Like I'm looking at him with like four boys like
Speaker 2: around him, and I'm just like, I just love that.
Speaker 4: You know that that don't work for me.
Speaker 1: For me, she'd be having one kid on her head,
Speaker 1: but another kid is toes everywhere, and I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: you gotta put them kids asleep. But it's also understanding
Speaker 1: how that works, so you don't judge your partner. That's
Speaker 1: what I want people to understand when they watch this.
Speaker 1: Also understand like it's twenty two years we figured it
Speaker 1: out in twenty twenty how to get Better, But that
Speaker 1: didn't mean we figured all things out. We never stopped
Speaker 1: the practice of trying to figure it out. People automatically
Speaker 1: assume even when I spoke to the gentleman from Nice
Speaker 1: and Knee podcasts, how did you get here? And when
Speaker 1: I tell them that we're still working on it, they're
Speaker 1: just like.
Speaker 4: That, at what point do you figure it out and
Speaker 4: then off into the sunset?
Speaker 2: There's no moment figure it out and ride off into
Speaker 2: the sunset?
Speaker 4: Is that practical?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: The sunset that day the end of the day. You
Speaker 4: can have an amazing day and you figure it out,
Speaker 4: and then the sun is going to rise.
Speaker 3: It's a new day, and now I gotta start all over. God,
Speaker 3: I feel you.
Speaker 4: It's not necessarily like that tight. It can be that
Speaker 4: tight for some people. It's more on their cycle. It's
Speaker 4: on the phase of life that they're in. It can
Speaker 4: be like just a momentary thing. But yeah, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: you can definitely ride off into the sunset and that's
Speaker 4: the joy. Like I always think about this as such
Speaker 4: a stupid anecdote, but I'm like, they keep coming out
Speaker 4: with new iPhones. This thing can like set off nuclear bombs?
Speaker 3: What else do we need? Right?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: It's an insane gadget, but it's constant. It's the human spirit,
Speaker 4: it's the joy of humanity. We're always improving, we're always
Speaker 4: looking for more, We're always changes are constant. So why
Speaker 4: would that not apply to your sex life? And then
Speaker 4: why can't that be a positive thing? Why do I
Speaker 4: have to long for the days that I was like
Speaker 4: a team, like those feelings I used to have when
Speaker 4: the feelings that I have now are so much more
Speaker 4: complex and interesting, and then invite exploration. I was even
Speaker 4: gonna say that, like sometimes I think about this, going
Speaker 4: back to the point when me at the top of
Speaker 4: you were saying like, well, men have to understand that
Speaker 4: they don't have the same bodies as women's. They're coming
Speaker 4: to men for advice, and it's like it's not actually true.
Speaker 4: Like essentially your penis and cadal I'm sorry, I always
Speaker 4: do is cadals these glitterists is made up of buying
Speaker 4: large the same parts, the same tissue, right, Yeah, similarly
Speaker 4: to the skins, gland and the prostate your nipples for example,
Speaker 4: Like me and Jared are flipped on this, like I
Speaker 4: am like get away and then he was like, bring
Speaker 4: me all the tongues. I mean the tongues, the vibrators,
Speaker 4: the clams and everything at once, the ice. And so
Speaker 4: it's not that we're all that different. It's said that
Speaker 4: men are just not invited to explore. Right, the back
Speaker 4: of your knee might be just as sensitive as an
Speaker 4: erogenous zone, but you're just not even invited to touch
Speaker 4: and play with yourself in that way. And then it
Speaker 4: feels weird if your partner does it, and maybe it's
Speaker 4: ticklish for the first time, or you don't get the response,
Speaker 4: they never revisited again. So it's not that men are
Speaker 4: our bodies are very different, but your bodies are so
Speaker 4: much less explored, even when we're talking about you know,
Speaker 4: beyond hair loss and erections, your bodies are just really
Speaker 4: not explored as much. So in your I guess studies
Speaker 4: or your expert opinion.
Speaker 2: Do you think that there's a deficit in like studies
Speaker 2: of what men require and need and like, how can
Speaker 2: we facilitate that as women because I don't want for
Speaker 2: him or which most of the wives that I speak
Speaker 2: to happily married, but like this is an issue for them.
Speaker 2: And again, like Deval said, to his point, he feels
Speaker 2: like some times men are disregarded in their feelings because
Speaker 2: it's like, all right, well, you're gonna have to deal
Speaker 2: with it. Women, for example, we have PMS or we
Speaker 2: have our period, so it's like it's expected that we're
Speaker 2: going to have those mood swings. It's expected that we're
Speaker 2: not gonna want things sexually. But should we shun our
Speaker 2: men for saying I want this more frequently because I
Speaker 2: require it because biologically or my body needs that.
Speaker 4: I think there's just more questions to be asked. That's
Speaker 4: all across the board, Like it doesn't start there. I'll
Speaker 4: just give a basic example is on my podcast, I
Speaker 4: had Tenariel, whom you're talking about the stallion as being
Speaker 4: like same thing. Tennarielle is like six feet tall, huge afro,
Speaker 4: just gorgeous, like body, Addy Audi everything, But she was
Speaker 4: talking about masturbation for women, like the way that she
Speaker 4: did it, where it was like a two hour experience,
Speaker 4: slowly touching her head, changing her body, looking at herself
Speaker 4: in the mirror, eye gazing, moving her hands slowly around
Speaker 4: different parts of her body, dancing around her genitals but
Speaker 4: not touching, grabbing her own ass jiggling it, massage her feet,
Speaker 4: and then we're all like okay, yeah, And that's how
Speaker 4: you learn your body, That's how you communicate with your
Speaker 4: partner what you like. Through this experience of self exploration,
Speaker 4: you discover like wow, like I didn't know that would
Speaker 4: feel good for me. It allows you to invite that
Speaker 4: into the conversation. Now, let's just take out t Nara
Speaker 4: yell and all her goddessness and insert devout Right.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can see a baby.
Speaker 4: So I've done things like that for him.
Speaker 2: So like when he's been away, for example, like he
Speaker 2: was filming for like two three weeks during Canada for
Speaker 2: like six weeks at a time, and he's like, send
Speaker 2: me a video and I'm like, good god, what this
Speaker 2: iCloud look like?
Speaker 3: Chick?
Speaker 4: Check this eye class.
Speaker 2: But it was funny how in setting up a camera
Speaker 2: right and me self exploring for him. Of course, it's
Speaker 2: the idea of like, I want to be sexy for
Speaker 2: him in this moment, but then I start using things
Speaker 2: in my hands and other tools to feel sexy and
Speaker 2: then realize saying like, oh, I kind of like the
Speaker 2: way that feels there. So then I'll say to him, babe,
Speaker 2: use this when you come home or whatever. It's it's
Speaker 2: very like empowering as a woman, but it also is
Speaker 2: like wow, the discovery of places and zones that I
Speaker 2: didn't even know existed. So that's been something we've done
Speaker 2: in the past, you know, when we're having that time apart.
Speaker 2: So once we get back together, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to try that super empowering.
Speaker 3: Yeah you you touched on something, no pun intended. How
Speaker 3: men myself delights? I love it.
Speaker 4: If I were walking on that, I guess at least
Speaker 4: I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing.
Speaker 3: But the truth is men don't feel comfortable exploring themselves.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Part of that comes from years of homophobia, right like men,
Speaker 1: especially black men.
Speaker 3: I don't touch myself, but we don't do that.
Speaker 1: I need a girl, you know, So how do you
Speaker 1: know what you like if you don't touch yourself. I
Speaker 1: realized years ago. I love making out. It doesn't always
Speaker 1: have to end in sects. And I used to say
Speaker 1: to Kadeen, like, how come you don't ever just come
Speaker 1: jump on me and we just kiss and hug and
Speaker 1: touch on each other, And she's like, because you don't
Speaker 1: want to fuck afterwards, and sometimes I just don't want
Speaker 1: to fuck and I'm like, so now we can't we
Speaker 1: can't make out because you're not gonna want to fuck later,
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, that's part of my oxytocin what
Speaker 1: I need. You know what I'm saying. And it's like, damn, Like,
Speaker 1: because you're worried about the end result, you don't give
Speaker 1: me something else that I need. That's the intimacy component.
Speaker 1: That's why I love listening to you, because it's not
Speaker 1: always just about the orgasm. You're not just a sex
Speaker 1: coach but also an intimacy coach. How important is it
Speaker 1: for women to constantly touch on their husbands or their
Speaker 1: their significant other?
Speaker 3: I want to discuss that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's incredibly important, even when you were in the book,
Speaker 4: which y'all get the book obviously, I've talked about a
Speaker 4: million times and I could keep talking about it. It's
Speaker 4: really good. I love I read a lot of books
Speaker 4: about intimacy, relationships, connecting friendship. It is really phenomenal. It's like,
Speaker 4: actually not giving me to and most things give me to.
Speaker 4: Is that where we're at, That's where we're starting the conversation.
Speaker 4: This is or the book I was not giving that
Speaker 4: at all. But you talked about in the book being
Speaker 4: touched out right what oftentimes men have the opposite experience
Speaker 4: it you. I don't think you have this issue of
Speaker 4: being affectionate with your kids, But I know for me
Speaker 4: growing up, I have a dad whom I could go
Speaker 4: into like a story with this. I'm trying to gauge
Speaker 4: what I should say here, but essentially, for reasons of
Speaker 4: my mom's past, seeing my dad affectionate with us would
Speaker 4: be triggering with her for her sometimes, and so my
Speaker 4: dad would use affection as a joke with us. It
Speaker 4: would always be like a wrestle this so that it
Speaker 4: was never like really allowed to be sensitive again. So
Speaker 4: in many ways he had the opposite experience of my mom,
Speaker 4: where it's like we were always wanting to hugger, We
Speaker 4: always wanted kids because we knew that's who we could
Speaker 4: go to for that. And so in your only my
Speaker 4: only my dad's only outlet, it's not his sisters, it's
Speaker 4: not his mom, it's his only outlet for affection was
Speaker 4: my mom. And so it's not just even just about
Speaker 4: necessarily looking for sexual touch. And then maybe for a
Speaker 4: lot of men too, they've never even tapped into the
Speaker 4: idea that I just need to corregulate, like I feel
Speaker 4: stressed out, I feel like, you know, I need to
Speaker 4: make out. It could be even just be an you
Speaker 4: need to be held for a second.
Speaker 2: That'd be me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I say that all the time.
Speaker 4: And because you don't want to admit that, it's easier
Speaker 4: to say, well, I just want to fuck, because that's
Speaker 4: the way that you get the coregulation, you get the
Speaker 4: intimate touch, you get the connection.
Speaker 3: And you get the or gas.
Speaker 4: Right like that almost becomes a cherry on top versus
Speaker 4: like what the actual goal of intimacy is. And so
Speaker 4: I just think that men just don't get to go
Speaker 4: through these explorations enough to really ask like, Okay, what
Speaker 4: is it about sex that I crave so much?
Speaker 1: Does that not sound like how I was in college
Speaker 1: in my first few years in the NFL, I'd be
Speaker 1: having a bad day or something and I just want
Speaker 1: to fuck because I thought that that's what it was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I got older when I just like,
Speaker 1: I want my wife to sit on me, let me
Speaker 1: hold you, then let's kiss, let's make out. I'll fall asleep.
Speaker 1: I don't care. But I didn't realize until I got
Speaker 1: older that fucking wasn't the thing. It was the the affection.
Speaker 1: I crave, affection like I crave and you know how
Speaker 1: you talked about your mom having a traumatic pass I
Speaker 1: think it was traumatic for me because I didn't get
Speaker 1: affection in my house like that, Like I didn't. My
Speaker 1: mom wasn't affection. My mom was very much like militant,
Speaker 1: do as I say. You know, she showed her affection
Speaker 1: by Valentine's Day. She got us cards and gifts and
Speaker 1: was just like, I'm going to show you appreciate it.
Speaker 1: But my mom's not a hugger. She's not a you know,
Speaker 1: a kiss I love you, son. It was never like that.
Speaker 1: My dad wasn't like that either, So I yearned for that.
Speaker 1: So now that I have a wife, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: want that for my wife all the time. But at
Speaker 1: first I thought it was just sex. Now I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's not just sex. I want affection.
Speaker 2: And for me, I grew up also in not in
Speaker 2: a very affectionate environment like my parents were, like.
Speaker 4: We showed that we loved you because we provided for
Speaker 4: you and we.
Speaker 2: Gave like those are the things that those are the
Speaker 2: love languages right, So when I'm now fast forward with
Speaker 2: devound devalu just like wanting to be touched and felton
Speaker 2: all the time and huggy and kissing, I'm just kind
Speaker 2: of like I'm good like because that's just what I
Speaker 2: was accustomed to. So how have you noticed, I guess,
Speaker 2: in your expert opinion, how people are affected by their
Speaker 2: past when it comes to affection and that desire for it.
Speaker 4: How what's the correlation? Yeah, I think of what's so
Speaker 4: great about fixed orientations, like the idea that we're just
Speaker 4: born in certain ways just gives us permission to be
Speaker 4: and there's not a lot of like range in what
Speaker 4: we think of, like is a disposition or orientation. I
Speaker 4: think some people are just naturally just desire touch more.
Speaker 4: They require more regulation, and there could be various reasons
Speaker 4: for that. And I think that there's also a big
Speaker 4: part of it too, where we have to assess as women,
Speaker 4: we might get that affection from friends, We're getting it
Speaker 4: maybe somewhat from our parents, we get it from our siblings,
Speaker 4: we might do it with our dolls. And then as
Speaker 4: we grow older, you know, we do that, we have
Speaker 4: that with our children, and so then that's a natural
Speaker 4: explanation as to one why you just weren't that wasn't
Speaker 4: how you were raised too. Maybe naturally you just don't
Speaker 4: require that much type of you know, physical intimacy. And
Speaker 4: on top of that, you're getting your knees met from
Speaker 4: a lot of other different places, and so there's like
Speaker 4: a whole That's what I mean, like just bringing the
Speaker 4: conversation a little bit wider. I'm really asking like, well,
Speaker 4: why am I the way that I am? And then
Speaker 4: respecting that and understanding that, and then I really want
Speaker 4: to talk about in my podcast. I'm trying to like
Speaker 4: save it. But the real truth is, like the long
Speaker 4: the TLDR of this is like the journey of respecting,
Speaker 4: which is not a decision, right, Like, if I really
Speaker 4: want to respect you, it's not a choice that I make.
Speaker 4: It's an exploration that I'm willing to go through. That's
Speaker 4: I'm willing to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because exploration happens through over time. Yes, And people
Speaker 1: think that it's a choice. Once I make this choice,
Speaker 1: it should be instantaneous, right. I think that's part of
Speaker 1: the problem. Both men and women go through a lot
Speaker 1: of men and women want to change for their partner,
Speaker 1: but they just wanted to be instantaneously, not realizing that
Speaker 1: it's a journey and it's going to be a number
Speaker 1: of choices that have to be made over a specific
Speaker 1: amount of time. You want to spend the rest of
Speaker 1: your life with this person, be committed to exploring them
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know exactly. That makes so much sense now
Speaker 2: that I think about it. Which to our point, babe,
Speaker 2: when we've been looking at the span of the past
Speaker 2: twenty years, Deval's kind of like, well, I told you
Speaker 2: the things that I want, so why can't you just
Speaker 2: change all of them in one breath and that be it,
Speaker 2: and then everything should be fine. We can write off
Speaker 2: into the sunset where with me, certain things took longer
Speaker 2: to click, for example, not just intercourse, right, he said,
Speaker 2: time and time again, how about you try these different
Speaker 2: things that will just show me that you're interested in
Speaker 2: making sure that I'm satisfied. But it's also not going
Speaker 2: to require as much from you. And for so long,
Speaker 2: I don't know why it took years for it to click.
Speaker 2: Try to understand, like why I feel why why I
Speaker 2: felt that way?
Speaker 4: It took so long?
Speaker 2: Yokah, you know right, I'm not sure I'm not sure
Speaker 2: why this part made me emotional, but.
Speaker 4: I felt badly.
Speaker 2: And more recently, I guess in the past couple of
Speaker 2: years that it's taken me so long to just give
Speaker 2: him the things that he requires, you know, because he's
Speaker 2: a phenomenal man, phenomenal father, phenomenal husband, and maybe because
Speaker 2: I was just so focused on like being a mom
Speaker 2: and like going through all of the physical changes over
Speaker 2: the past decade, that I really wasn't focused on what
Speaker 2: he required. So more recently, I've been trying to make
Speaker 2: sure that I'm just focusing on what he requires, and
Speaker 2: I see how that lights him up, and I guess
Speaker 2: I'm crime because it's like being a bit upset at myself,
Speaker 2: but then also like seeing the happiness that he is
Speaker 2: exuding now because I'm really taking the time to focus
Speaker 2: and think about the things he needs. And though all
Speaker 2: the changes aren't happening at once, the small changes that
Speaker 2: I've been making makes me feel better because it makes
Speaker 2: me feel like I'm giving him the things that he deserves.
Speaker 2: And I guess that's me pretty much saying like taking
Speaker 2: the steps to explore each other in the journey and
Speaker 2: then finally like putting those things into action to change
Speaker 2: for him is important to me.
Speaker 4: I just want you to know it's important to me.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I appreciate that, and I know it's important.
Speaker 1: I know it's important. And sometimes sometimes I think for
Speaker 1: us too as people. I've learned that once I said
Speaker 1: once again about intent and impact, right, I intended to
Speaker 1: tell Okay something where I may intend to tell Kase
Speaker 1: something that I don't realize it's impacting her in a
Speaker 1: way that may be hurtful.
Speaker 3: I hate what she says to me.
Speaker 1: I feel inadequate, and I'm like, dang, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to tell you that I may require something different
Speaker 1: without you feeling inadequate.
Speaker 3: Sometimes we struggle with that.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, Bait, I'm not saying that I want to
Speaker 1: be with anybody else so I want to do something.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that let's pivot and try something different,
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, I've been trying these things.
Speaker 3: Sometimes for us it's like hard.
Speaker 2: Like I think what made me emotionless because it just
Speaker 2: it really matters to me.
Speaker 4: It matters to me. And it's like Devo is an
Speaker 4: amazing human.
Speaker 3: Being and you are too. You got to know that, Like.
Speaker 2: Thank you, but me feeling like I haven't been able
Speaker 2: to like hold my weight when it comes to sex
Speaker 2: or the things that he requires. It really bothered me,
Speaker 2: like I would question and internalize it and feel like,
Speaker 2: why can't it just click to me? Why can't I
Speaker 2: just start doing all of the things that he asks
Speaker 2: for do it in the manner in which he's asked
Speaker 2: for it. It's like, why is it taking me so
Speaker 2: long to just do it? Because I make the conscious
Speaker 2: effort when it comes to the kids, or it comes
Speaker 2: to work, or if a job requires something of me,
Speaker 2: like I just do it. But why should he have
Speaker 2: to be put on the back burner? Why should his
Speaker 2: feelings or his needs be put in the back burner?
Speaker 2: And I think that's just like a self reflection moment
Speaker 2: for me to realize, like people prioritize the things they
Speaker 2: want to prioritize as far and I've just been making
Speaker 2: a conscious effort within the past five years and more recently,
Speaker 2: I feel like since he's gotten has vien tech to
Speaker 2: me to really pour into what it is that he
Speaker 2: needs and giving him exactly what he requires, Like it's
Speaker 2: not enough to just say, well, you know, you freaking
Speaker 2: nutted three four times this week, like you're having more
Speaker 2: sex than the average married man, Like that's just not
Speaker 2: enough for him. And I'm just letting him know, and
Speaker 2: I guess letting everybody know now that we're in this
Speaker 2: space that like that's just a focus of mine moving
Speaker 2: forward into this next chapter of what our life is
Speaker 2: going to look like, because I hear in the forties
Speaker 2: it gets better, Like I guess is that true to
Speaker 2: women's sex drives go up in the forties.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's a myth or not, but well.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, babe, I don't I want you to
Speaker 1: understand this too. You keep saying time right, time is relative.
Speaker 1: We've been together twenty two years. Okay, so it took
Speaker 1: you a couple of years to figure something out, but
Speaker 1: we still have eighty more years of life to live.
Speaker 1: You understand what I'm saying, Like, like, if you always
Speaker 1: think of things in terms of like it took me
Speaker 1: this long and this, then it's always seemed daunting. But
Speaker 1: then when you look at how much more life we
Speaker 1: have to live together, God willing we live to be
Speaker 1: eighty years old, that means we have forty more years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it took you may a couple of years to figure
Speaker 1: this out, but now we have forty more years with
Speaker 1: the work that you've already figured out, but the work
Speaker 1: I've also figured out. Right, you weren't going through that
Speaker 1: process by yourself, right, We were doing the work together,
Speaker 1: So you also had to let me get some information
Speaker 1: to help you through the process. It wasn't only on you,
Speaker 1: which is why I keep telling you, like, stop stop
Speaker 1: internalizing and taking it all on yourself. I had to
Speaker 1: learn that too, because remember I used to say to
Speaker 1: myself saying all the time, what's wrong with me? Now
Speaker 1: I may not cry, but I will be like, yo,
Speaker 1: what is wrong with me that I can't you know?
Speaker 3: At one point I was like, do I have a
Speaker 3: sex addiction? You know? And at one point I was like,
Speaker 3: am I over affectionate? Am I?
Speaker 1: Am I not being aware of what my wife may
Speaker 1: need in this moment like these the same way you're
Speaker 1: going through those introspective moments. I continuously go through those.
Speaker 1: But what I find joy is knowing that we're working
Speaker 1: on it together. So if there's ever a moment where
Speaker 1: we're not exactly on the same page, it's not what
Speaker 1: we've been together. Twenty two years we should notice by
Speaker 1: now it's like, let's go on another journey. It could
Speaker 1: take another five years, right, but then we still got
Speaker 1: forty more years of life.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. It's perspective.
Speaker 1: That's that's how I've been approaching it, you know, So
Speaker 1: I just want you to know that too, though, Like
Speaker 1: you know, I.
Speaker 2: Guess the perfectionist in me is just like, why can't
Speaker 2: I get this right? Like you know, I get everything
Speaker 2: else right? You know, why can't I get this right
Speaker 2: with a person who means the absolute most to me?
Speaker 1: But who are you not getting it right? I think
Speaker 1: you are getting it right by working, working, working on
Speaker 1: it is actually getting it right. When you get it
Speaker 1: wrong is when you quit right.
Speaker 4: That's what you do, is quit right.
Speaker 1: Like that's the biggest thing if you're not. But I mean,
Speaker 1: these are but these also are emotions you got to
Speaker 1: let out. And sometimes this is why it's good to
Speaker 1: speak to people other than me about this, Like this
Speaker 1: is the first time I've seen you break down like
Speaker 1: this about this Because you're speaking to someone else, maybe
Speaker 1: you should just.
Speaker 4: Speak this era. I mean, I had no idea that
Speaker 4: I was walking into a therapy session.
Speaker 3: I had no idea, I know.
Speaker 1: But serious though, I mean, sometimes you need to express
Speaker 1: this to someone else because you don't feel comfortable saying
Speaker 1: it to me. But now I heard it because you've
Speaker 1: expressed it in front of someone else to me. So
Speaker 1: this is a learning moment not just for you, it's
Speaker 1: for me too, Like I'm like, okay, I see where
Speaker 1: you are with it, where your mentality is, so we
Speaker 1: build off that.
Speaker 4: It's that simple, so beautiful. Sorry, it's so beautiful. And
Speaker 4: I'm only thinking that because I know you from a
Speaker 4: limited POV and you know limited thing and I don't
Speaker 4: feel like you said anything really new just there, but
Speaker 4: I felt, like, what I think the difference A friend
Speaker 4: of mine actally said this beaks because they talk about
Speaker 4: their partner a lot. Their partner has certain like isms, right,
Speaker 4: like that they just talk about their isms in like,
Speaker 4: h that kind of way. I just noticed recently. It's
Speaker 4: not that the conversation has changed. The isms are still there,
Speaker 4: but there's a lovingness to how she talks about it,
Speaker 4: and there's a knowingness how she talks about it, like
Speaker 4: I know this about them. So here's what I build in.
Speaker 4: And I asked him, like, what's the difference, like they're
Speaker 4: just always seem to have this positive spin on these
Speaker 4: parts of the person. And then she's like, I think
Speaker 4: I just started to feel like he did that for me,
Speaker 4: like for a really long time. I want to let's
Speaker 4: stop there, Like.
Speaker 2: No, you're right, It's like he's done so many things
Speaker 2: for me, so it's like, why can't I reciprocate that?
Speaker 4: But also I think what helped me is sometimes you
Speaker 4: need it done for you to feel inspired to make
Speaker 4: that change for somebody else, and that.
Speaker 3: Happens a lot in you.
Speaker 2: Because I feel like it shouldn't have been that right,
Speaker 2: because why I should have been just if he wants
Speaker 2: to naturally do these things for me, then it should
Speaker 2: just like what it makes me feel like.
Speaker 4: If this sounds weird.
Speaker 2: Like he loves me more than I love him, Like
Speaker 2: that's what he said to me before, and he was like, well,
Speaker 2: I love you this much and I'm willing to do
Speaker 2: all these things, and I'm like, but I love you
Speaker 2: just as much. Just because I'm not doing those things
Speaker 2: doesn't take away from the fact that I love.
Speaker 1: You, and I have said that, I've felt that before,
Speaker 1: I've legitimately felt like, damn, do I love her more
Speaker 1: than she loved me because I'm willing to do anything
Speaker 1: she wants to do. But when it comes to things
Speaker 1: I ask, it's always a caveat. I've said that before.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why you feel like that because I've said it.
Speaker 4: So I'm just like, and it's really hard to do
Speaker 4: things you don't feel like you're good at. Yeah, nobody
Speaker 4: wants to do math that they're getting a fucking DP
Speaker 4: like you want it. Your favorite subject is always the
Speaker 4: subject that you're doing really good at. So it's difficult,
Speaker 4: as much as it should be more logical to be
Speaker 4: more motivated to excel in this area because you want
Speaker 4: to please your partner and you want all those things.
Speaker 4: If you feel like you're bad at it, or starting
Speaker 4: from a place where you're bad, that's.
Speaker 3: A good point though.
Speaker 2: If there's been like this dark cloud around sex for
Speaker 2: so long that it's like I feel like the cloud
Speaker 2: was just following me, like I couldn't escape the storm
Speaker 2: of the conversations that we've had.
Speaker 1: Shan has but she remember when you said to me
Speaker 1: you didn't like to do the dress up and stuff
Speaker 1: because you didn't feel sexy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's literally exactly what you don't do it because
Speaker 3: you don't like.
Speaker 2: You didn't feel Yeah, I didn't feel like I didn't
Speaker 2: feel sexy because we've had the conversation about like playing
Speaker 2: dress up and role play, and I'm just like, like,
Speaker 2: if I start to do this now, like he's gonna
Speaker 2: think I'm only doing it because he's asked for it,
Speaker 2: and I'm in my own head about it, you know.
Speaker 2: But what's helped me to your to answer your question
Speaker 2: to her to kind of piggyback off my response. Learning
Speaker 2: how to take accountability has helped me with a lot
Speaker 2: of the progress I feel like I've been able to make.
Speaker 2: I had a problem with taking accountability.
Speaker 4: I used to deflect. I used to defer, I used
Speaker 4: to find a reason why.
Speaker 2: I used to find an excuse, and Deval would call
Speaker 2: me on it, because Deval was just like, he's not
Speaker 2: a bullshitter. He's like, give me the straight you know,
Speaker 2: straight drink, no chaser. And I've learned to be accountable
Speaker 2: for my actions in a facet of the multifaceted, like
Speaker 2: you know areas. Now that I'm able to do that,
Speaker 2: I think that's why I'm able to execute the things
Speaker 2: more or one of the reasons why I'm able to
Speaker 2: execute the things that he wants more because not only
Speaker 2: do I feel like he deserves it because he gives
Speaker 2: the same thing to me, or because he's the amazing
Speaker 2: person that he is and he requires that and he
Speaker 2: should have it, but I'm also sitting back and saying
Speaker 2: I need to take responsibility for how I've acted or
Speaker 2: the things I haven't acted on, and that I think
Speaker 2: has helped me get a better perspective to make it
Speaker 2: a healthy thought process for me and a healthy way
Speaker 2: to execute things versus trying to like tiptoe or dance
Speaker 2: around it.
Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, I think you need something to drink,
Speaker 1: and I think you need to take a break.
Speaker 3: I knew, I seriously do.
Speaker 1: I don't want you to be you know, you shared
Speaker 1: a lot, but also like you're a human at the
Speaker 1: same time, like shann said, like sometimes you got to like,
Speaker 1: let's take a break. We're gonna take a break, have
Speaker 1: a drink, you need.
Speaker 2: A hug, I'll take a shot straight, no chase it. No, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we can take a break. We'll we'll you know, do
Speaker 2: the necessary bill paying and whatnot. I'll get myself together
Speaker 2: and then we'll be back all right, now that we're back,
Speaker 2: we got ourselves together.
Speaker 4: We had a shot or two.
Speaker 2: Maybe we're gonna lean on you shan to jump into
Speaker 2: listener letters since you are our expert for this episode.
Speaker 4: You guys are experts too, you know, actually really been
Speaker 4: leaning into making sure that my title is educator teacher
Speaker 4: one of my certification for that. Really support that and too,
Speaker 4: I like, really everybody's an expert and so rather than
Speaker 4: like I think that separates us, and in terms of knowledge,
Speaker 4: you know things that I don't know, and you have got,
Speaker 4: you know, answers to questions that I still have. So
Speaker 4: like we're both experts. I just spend more time learning
Speaker 4: and teaching, and so that's where my that's where I'm
Speaker 4: better than you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, more experts, like you know, all the things you
Speaker 2: create the safe space, like it just.
Speaker 1: Became that I'm gonna read, I'm gonna listen, but I try,
Speaker 1: and we're going to try.
Speaker 3: Because I'm definitely expert.
Speaker 4: You're putting your ten thousand hours, what twenty two years?
Speaker 3: Yes, make an experts. Yeah, you guys are experts.
Speaker 4: Shut out, Come on me up then, bro dap me up.
Speaker 2: All right, So let's jump into this listen, let it,
Speaker 2: and we will use your educational experience to talk about
Speaker 2: what's happening here. All right, Hey, so, I just want
Speaker 2: to start by saying I love you both. I've been
Speaker 2: following your journey for almost eight years now and listening
Speaker 2: to the podcast in season one. I can go on
Speaker 2: and on about how much I love y'all, but let
Speaker 2: me get to the point because it's a lot to
Speaker 2: unpack and I don't want to leave anything out.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So, me and my husband have been together for eight
Speaker 2: year and married for a little over one year. We
Speaker 2: have two kids together, and I believe that we have
Speaker 2: a great relationship. Anyway, sex has always been a thing
Speaker 2: in our relationship, even prior to marriage. Like us, my
Speaker 2: husband wants to have sex all the time, and I'm
Speaker 2: just not that person. I would be okay with sex
Speaker 2: once a month for no more than twenty minutes. So
Speaker 2: we got down to the minute show. I know, don't
Speaker 2: judge me because of my lack of desire to have sex.
Speaker 2: I've allowed my husband then boyfriend to have sex with
Speaker 2: someone else. I hate that decision and that I wish
Speaker 2: it didn't happen. Moving on, I expressed to him that
Speaker 2: I'm also interested in women sexually, and he was all
Speaker 2: for it. I had encounters with women on my own
Speaker 2: and we had a couple threesomes not page two, page hard.
Speaker 2: She said it was a lot to unpacked. We discussed
Speaker 2: boundaries before then and everything was cool. We continue this
Speaker 2: going into our marriage, the threesomes and him allowing me
Speaker 2: to be with other women on my own. But now
Speaker 2: I want to stop because now I feel like my
Speaker 2: husband has become too wrapped up in it. Every time
Speaker 2: we go out, he's looking for another woman to enjoy
Speaker 2: having threesomes with, and our date nights have become unenjoyable.
Speaker 2: He sparks up random conversations with other women and tells
Speaker 2: them that I'm into women, literal strangers we just met,
Speaker 2: and it's so annoying. This is his way of flirting
Speaker 2: with other women to see if they're interested. But sometimes
Speaker 2: I just want to meet people and it be just
Speaker 2: that meeting them. Now, I will take accountability for my part,
Speaker 2: because there are times we go out and I do
Speaker 2: want to do that, meaning have a threesome, but sometimes
Speaker 2: I don't. I just want to enjoy my husband, and
Speaker 2: for some reason he can't get it. Every time I
Speaker 2: express this to him, he turns it into an argument
Speaker 2: because my feelings are back and forth. According to him,
Speaker 2: Page three, Page threeeeste, I hate that three somes have
Speaker 2: become the center of our relationship and seems to be
Speaker 2: the only way we connect. Yes, I would like to
Speaker 2: continue to do it once in a bloom moon, but
Speaker 2: my husband wants to do it every chance we get.
Speaker 2: And because of the disconnect here, I just want to stop.
Speaker 2: I feel like, because I've accepted it for so long
Speaker 2: and went into the marriage, can I even change my mind.
Speaker 2: I feel like if we stop, it'll affect my marriage
Speaker 2: because my husband really enjoys it, and our sex is
Speaker 2: kind of blah compared to threesomes. I don't satisfy him
Speaker 2: sexually when it's just me. This is partly because I
Speaker 2: don't like it, but I also don't know what I like.
Speaker 1: He don't satisfy her sexually neither clearly too, because she
Speaker 1: lays women. It's not just him not being satisfied.
Speaker 2: We have two kids and work full time, and after
Speaker 2: a long day of work, I'm tired, and honestly, I
Speaker 2: don't get enjoyment from our sex. I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: talking in circles. Now, so question is how can I
Speaker 2: communicate to my husband that I no longer want to
Speaker 2: have three sums because of the issue it CAUs and
Speaker 2: also make our life, our sex life better.
Speaker 3: Wow? Wow wow.
Speaker 4: You ever get not or like a necklace that gets
Speaker 4: into a knot, then the knot is so big and
Speaker 4: it's like a chain, so it's so hard to get
Speaker 4: out and you can't yank it, get that no out.
Speaker 4: It's like a slow process with a needle of going
Speaker 4: each individual, not like a Rubik's cube. Sometimes then you
Speaker 4: find yourself on a path that like you're actually making
Speaker 4: it worse. So that's just the process they have to
Speaker 4: go under. I mean we could have stopped at half
Speaker 4: page and been like, oh, like exactly that you guys
Speaker 4: were nodding along like oh yeah, we've been there, we've
Speaker 4: been there, and eventually were like, oh no, this is
Speaker 4: not our story.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: And if you were to give advice to the very
Speaker 4: first part of when you acknowledge that there is a
Speaker 4: disparity in how much sex you want and for how
Speaker 4: long you want it, like, what do you think they
Speaker 4: should have done at that point?
Speaker 3: This is my issue, right.
Speaker 1: It seems like she's cool with stuff as long as
Speaker 1: she wants to do it right, Like she wants to
Speaker 1: have sex twenty minutes once a long. You want to
Speaker 1: have three someomes, cool, I'm cool with three someomes. But
Speaker 1: I'm only cool with three someomes when I want to
Speaker 1: do three somemes. That's not fair to me. That's what
Speaker 1: I want to see. No one ever wants to address
Speaker 1: the elephant in the room. But you can't say to
Speaker 1: somebody who we're in life partnership is like, we're only
Speaker 1: going to do the things you want to do when
Speaker 1: I want to do them. That's just not fair.
Speaker 4: It's exactly the same. That's for him though he's only
Speaker 4: getting to do it when he wants to do it,
Speaker 4: But he's not having toroise and do things sexually that
Speaker 4: he doesn't want to do. So it's the same. We're
Speaker 4: going off of his desires, and then she's just saying
Speaker 4: on the hundred times that you desire it, here's the
Speaker 4: eight that I actually am also enthusiastically interested.
Speaker 3: But are we really going on for his desires?
Speaker 1: If she says she told him she's into women, so
Speaker 1: he's like, cool, you like women, I like women, let's
Speaker 1: do women and she's like, fine, let's do women. But
Speaker 1: now she's like, oh, he's enjoying himself too much. I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this anymore. So it's like, we
Speaker 1: can do this only up until I want to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't see that same thing for him.
Speaker 4: You know what, I passed you the ball, Deval. I
Speaker 4: thought you're going to play on team, and now that
Speaker 4: you're not, your regress I really want to understand.
Speaker 3: I really want to understand, Like, but.
Speaker 2: Is it a thing too where it's like you started
Speaker 2: a bad habit and then now it's like, how do
Speaker 2: you pull back from that bad habit?
Speaker 4: What do you think, Shan? So I think that yeah,
Speaker 4: the step one is just really going back to the
Speaker 4: fact that it seems like you guys have never addressed
Speaker 4: the fact that you don't like to have the same
Speaker 4: kind of sex. Yes, you've never addressed the fact that
Speaker 4: he's not pleased in the bedroom, he finds it boring,
Speaker 4: and that you're not excited to do it either, right,
Speaker 4: And so that's the larger questions. And a part of
Speaker 4: that is not just you know, a partner base that
Speaker 4: could be hormonal, that could be her ideals around you
Speaker 4: know what you're supposed to do when you're married. It
Speaker 4: could be his ideas or you know, the rules of
Speaker 4: a wife. There's so much conversations that could have started
Speaker 4: at that point. So that's already one incompatiy. Incompatibility that
Speaker 4: you have when you start a relationship. There's hopefully eighty
Speaker 4: percent of the areas that you have compatibility. The magic
Speaker 4: we click, we click, we get. There's positives with that
Speaker 4: because we're on a natural flow. The negative is when
Speaker 4: we don't click here. Because life is ever changing and
Speaker 4: we're always changing, sometimes troubleshooting those areas can be hard.
Speaker 4: If we've always been aligned on finances and all of
Speaker 4: a sudden something changes, that can be more difficult. So
Speaker 4: sometimes I actually think incompatibilities from the start are a
Speaker 4: benefit because you get into the culture of having the
Speaker 4: hard conversations. But unfortunately you guys saw the incompatibility and
Speaker 4: did nothing about it.
Speaker 2: That is true, so the conversations weren't being had. It
Speaker 2: was just like, here's the band aid solution to it.
Speaker 4: Well, here's a problem. We'll just keep adding knots on
Speaker 4: top of it and tying it really really tight to
Speaker 4: try to get those knots out, making the issue worse
Speaker 4: and then adding to the fact that this guy is
Speaker 4: probably not monogamous. This is where we can bring in
Speaker 4: vasuppress and oxytocin into the conversation of like being the
Speaker 4: bonding hormone, the cuddle hormone. Vas depressing works in a
Speaker 4: similar way for men, and they don't have studies on
Speaker 4: this for human brains, but for other animals. For example, moles.
Speaker 4: They have one mole, prairie mole, and there's volley moles.
Speaker 4: One of those moles is very promiscuous and never settles down.
Speaker 4: The other is extremely monogamous, and they studied it because
Speaker 4: they look the exact same hole. But the difference is
Speaker 4: one of the moles has heavy amounts of vasive pressing
Speaker 4: in their brain.
Speaker 3: Is that to be said?
Speaker 4: There could be an argument that some people are just
Speaker 4: naturally not designed for monogamy. And so it sounds like
Speaker 4: her partner is like really excited by the idea. You
Speaker 4: know that quote that you gave new pussy is what's
Speaker 4: the official quote?
Speaker 3: There is no pussy is better than new pussy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there are some people who are like, I
Speaker 4: have no idea what you're talking about, Like the known,
Speaker 4: the comfort, the exploration, the safety, like, that's what's good
Speaker 4: pussy to me, and that person is never going to
Speaker 4: understand or empathize with you because their brain is so
Speaker 4: attracted to novelge.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: So I just think that if we acknowledge that that's
Speaker 4: probably an incompatibility that they have on top of the
Speaker 4: other incompatibility, and then we get into another incompatibility that
Speaker 4: they have, which comes with just respect or like what
Speaker 4: their mutual long term goals are for the relationship. So
Speaker 4: it's a hot mess and it's a lot.
Speaker 1: I think she needs to address the fact that she's
Speaker 1: into women too. She's married to a man. Maybe you do,
Speaker 1: I don't like to have sex with him often because
Speaker 1: you're into women. You know, if she's into a women, right,
Speaker 1: and she wants to have sex with women, but she's
Speaker 1: married to a man, of course she don't want to
Speaker 1: have sex with him every day.
Speaker 4: I didn't hear that.
Speaker 3: Did you hear that that she was just woman?
Speaker 4: She did feel like she I did hear that, But
Speaker 4: I feel like it was I gave him permission to
Speaker 4: have sex with other women because I recognize that I
Speaker 4: didn't want to satisfy his drive. That bothered me that
Speaker 4: he was doing that so then I thought to myself,
Speaker 4: I guess I could participate because I'm kind of attracted
Speaker 4: to women. She started participating in order to see if
Speaker 4: that could satisfy him, so at least she's still involved.
Speaker 4: And then she's so happy with me that she wasn't
Speaker 4: really enthusiastic about that either.
Speaker 3: So you think that she's just not enthusiastic about sex
Speaker 3: period or women or men. It could be.
Speaker 4: I think she said she had some soul play with
Speaker 4: women that she liked, so maybe it couldn't That's what
Speaker 4: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That's why I thought, maybe she's into women and maybe
Speaker 1: that's what skits her aroused. But she could be a
Speaker 1: traditional woman that says, I have to marry a man,
Speaker 1: so if I want kids, if I got to do
Speaker 1: it this way.
Speaker 4: But maybe she trying to figure it out, figure it out.
Speaker 2: I was looking back to see if she gave an
Speaker 2: age too, because I mean not to say that there's
Speaker 2: an age women on like the journey and the exploration process,
Speaker 2: but sometimes when you jump into things super early, you're
Speaker 2: you're still trying to figure yourself out and figure out
Speaker 2: what you like or what you don't like.
Speaker 4: Oh well, most women watch women on women porn. As
Speaker 4: a stat may not be true for you, but I
Speaker 4: know it was true for me when I started to
Speaker 4: voice that that I don't identify as being bisexual or homosexual,
Speaker 4: and what you're not supposed to say, queer, I don't
Speaker 4: identify as being a lesbian or bisexual. But I exclusively
Speaker 4: watch women on women porn. Why because when I watch
Speaker 4: what they do to each other, I'm like, that looks exciting.
Speaker 4: When I see a man in a porn and non
Speaker 4: ethical porn especially, none of that seems fun to me.
Speaker 4: I don't want to be her. I don't want to
Speaker 4: be him. So in essence, maybe it's something she's attracted
Speaker 4: or sexually attracted to women, But whatever her husband is
Speaker 4: doing is so far from what she likes that she
Speaker 4: knows she can't have sex another man. But at least
Speaker 4: when she's with another woman, the things that she likes
Speaker 4: are part of the conversation, the repertoire. So just meing
Speaker 4: like we're having a good conversation here to really just
Speaker 4: address there's a lot of there's a lot. There's a lot,
Speaker 4: and if you go back, you just have to go
Speaker 4: link by link here.
Speaker 1: Yes, they've been together eight years one year marriage. That's
Speaker 1: almost a decade. It seems like they've never had a
Speaker 1: conversation about sex, and that's part of the problem, because
Speaker 1: if you'd have had that conversation early, you would know
Speaker 1: how to make the adjustments.
Speaker 4: That's a good point I would say too, Like the
Speaker 4: kind of lesson that I got from your guys is
Speaker 4: because you're trying to offer advice, because I think about
Speaker 4: you did such a funny reenactment of the nice and
Speaker 4: neat guys. Their response when you were like, we're still
Speaker 4: working on it, and they all do that this is
Speaker 4: my future.
Speaker 2: What two of them are married and one engaged, right
Speaker 2: is that what his yeah?
Speaker 4: Or newly married?
Speaker 2: I think Omar had celebrated one year to engage, and
Speaker 2: then Jalan is married.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure he's engaged.
Speaker 4: He's engaged. It's getting married next month.
Speaker 2: So yeah, these are all like they're fresh and they're
Speaker 2: just like, when's this going to end?
Speaker 4: And it's never gonna end.
Speaker 3: When I said we still work on it, they all.
Speaker 4: Literally was like, but the work is so different now.
Speaker 4: It's like joyful, cooperative work and it doesn't have to
Speaker 4: be as frequent. That troubleshooting is less and so if
Speaker 4: you were to give advice to them of like, look,
Speaker 4: it doesn't have to take you as long as it
Speaker 4: took us, But that's because it took us a long
Speaker 4: time to baseline respect where each person was at. And again,
Speaker 4: respect not being a label but a verb. I actually
Speaker 4: got the time to understand your body and a research postpartum.
Speaker 4: I actually understood what your drives are and what your
Speaker 4: needs are and why you know that story you told
Speaker 4: about growing up that's such an aha for Like, that's
Speaker 4: why this is so important to you in a marriage.
Speaker 4: Like when you respect somebody, like you take that time
Speaker 4: to explore and really get them and accept them. Now
Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that you can't then say we accept
Speaker 4: and I get why where you're where you're at. Now,
Speaker 4: let's work on improving that and moving it somewhere. It's
Speaker 4: a combination of respect than reject that has to happen.
Speaker 4: But people just skip over the respect part and just
Speaker 4: reject and say something is wrong with you. This has
Speaker 4: to change, just has to fix.
Speaker 1: So don't skip over to respect just to go straight
Speaker 1: to the reject.
Speaker 3: I like that, and you know mostimate, like I do.
Speaker 4: Respect and respects such a big word, but like understanding
Speaker 4: what comes with that and the work that comes that.
Speaker 4: Maybe you don't really really skip over that, and maybe
Speaker 4: that's just the TLDR for them, is that this is
Speaker 4: just like this whole thing reeks of a lack of respect.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: So then if you were to chat with them, what's
Speaker 2: what's the first step? Is it like dial to dial
Speaker 2: back all of the layers and to kind of get
Speaker 2: to the now, you know, not free necklace or chain?
Speaker 4: What would be the first step.
Speaker 3: You'd have to talk?
Speaker 4: I don't even know. I mean that could be. I'm
Speaker 4: not somebody. I've never been to therapy before. I've been
Speaker 4: to I've been to therapists, but I've never really like
Speaker 4: engaged long term in like the therapeutic process. I actually
Speaker 4: tried group therapy recently, like maybe this is my thing.
Speaker 4: It was a retreat. I literally was like, I gotta leave.
Speaker 4: It's just not doesn't worry.
Speaker 3: I'm better.
Speaker 4: I'm better with self help. Yes, I'm better with teachers.
Speaker 4: I'm better with mentors, I'm better with guides. Right, it's
Speaker 4: kind of like us a couple of goals. Like people
Speaker 4: don't like that you guys are a couple of goals
Speaker 4: to me, I learned so much from you. What Oh
Speaker 4: my god, we can't really talk about that.
Speaker 1: It's such a it's such a high standard and pedestal,
Speaker 1: and I hate I don't want to ever feit.
Speaker 3: I don't want people to ever.
Speaker 1: Feel like we walk around like follow us, because I
Speaker 1: legit don't feel like that. I legit feel like, please
Speaker 1: watch us go through this journey as we make mistakes,
Speaker 1: so that you can learn how not to make the
Speaker 1: same mistakes we had, you know what I'm saying. But
Speaker 1: I would never say with a couple of goals, because
Speaker 1: there's some things that I look at us now from
Speaker 1: back then. I'm like, I would never do that, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So maybe it's just the word.
Speaker 4: Part of the goal. I mean, we could debate this
Speaker 4: all day long. You're my couple's goals letters, you know,
Speaker 4: and just that those are the ways that I learned.
Speaker 4: And some people need a need a guide. I actually
Speaker 4: listened to a podcast where a guy somebody was like,
Speaker 4: you've changed so much, Like how did you do it?
Speaker 4: He's like, I can't take any credit. I needed a therapist.
Speaker 4: I'm not the kind of person who does well with
Speaker 4: self help. I need a guide, So they have to
Speaker 4: first decide that are they going to look at these
Speaker 4: knots together and engage in that slow, methodical process and
Speaker 4: then enlist helps in the self help way, or are
Speaker 4: they just going to go and find the right therapist,
Speaker 4: which is a job all of them.
Speaker 2: It's like a dating courting process. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, good luck to you assists. I'm hoping
Speaker 2: that they can if they both are so inclined to
Speaker 2: want to work through this scene. It's only one year
Speaker 2: in married.
Speaker 3: Does that mean like you could leave now if you
Speaker 3: want it.
Speaker 4: I mean you were only married for a year period.
Speaker 2: Now. We're always going to err on the side of
Speaker 2: like we hope people can stay together and be in
Speaker 2: love and work it out, but we're also very realistic
Speaker 2: and knowing like sometimes things just don't walk.
Speaker 4: Out what we're saying.
Speaker 3: The mole analogy was perfect.
Speaker 1: These moles look exactly the same, but their brains and
Speaker 1: everything is a completely different And if we expect all
Speaker 1: moles to act like the way they look, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have problems. And I think it's the same thing for people.
Speaker 1: You can't force marriage or monogamy or what's your ideas
Speaker 1: of monogamy and marriage look like on everyone. They have
Speaker 1: to figure that out.
Speaker 2: So that's and be honest with each other, like you know, like.
Speaker 3: That was a clip atle bit cooked a little bit,
Speaker 3: but also.
Speaker 2: Being honest, like if you know that you're just not
Speaker 2: cut out for monogamy, if you know that you want
Speaker 2: to be with multiple people, just be honest about the
Speaker 2: way you feel like marriage is not for everyone.
Speaker 4: And that's okay. They've ever had that conversation, Yes, that's
Speaker 4: what that seems. Start there, Start there, have the conversation.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all, if you want to be featured as
Speaker 2: one of our listener letters, be sure to write into
Speaker 2: the listener books.
Speaker 4: One The thing is in their defense.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we get like a paragraph and we're like, we
Speaker 2: have no context. We don't know how to give our
Speaker 2: two cents because you have not given us all the
Speaker 2: tools to be successful. So we do ask for like,
Speaker 2: give us some context, so you know, three cards worth is.
Speaker 1: I guess you know we have to start asking people
Speaker 1: minimum not just for context.
Speaker 3: From your side.
Speaker 1: I wish people rolled in together because sometimes we get
Speaker 1: we get stories from guys and girls and we can
Speaker 1: read through the lines and be like you wrote this
Speaker 1: by yourself. We don't know the other person's side of
Speaker 1: the story, and this sounds crazy, right, that's.
Speaker 4: The gift of the two of you two because your
Speaker 4: interpretation of this was so different than mine and maybe yours.
Speaker 4: Maybe we were closer, Oh yeah yeah, and then you
Speaker 4: just took it. I was just like, oh, we're playing
Speaker 4: badminton pickleball.
Speaker 3: Well, no, one thing I like to do is I
Speaker 3: like to play Devil's advocate.
Speaker 4: Yes, because I love that the idea or concept of
Speaker 4: you guys both getting to get both perspectives and then
Speaker 4: give that I learned from you and that Oh that's good.
Speaker 2: No, all right, we'll pick that up too, y'all, and
Speaker 2: right into us and Dead Advice at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's D E A D A S S A D
Speaker 1: V I C E at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: All right, Shannon, know it's been five years, but you know,
Speaker 2: we typically wrap up the conversations with a moment of
Speaker 2: truth and that's pretty much your your takeaway. The culmination
Speaker 2: of the conversation today, which was very very deep, and
Speaker 2: it was had.
Speaker 4: Breath and it was long and it was wide and
Speaker 4: all that stuff. That's what she said.
Speaker 2: But what is something that you can leave our listeners
Speaker 2: with in a nutshell, Oh, we're just having all the nutshell.
Speaker 4: All that today.
Speaker 2: What is it that you can tell our listeners that
Speaker 2: they can take away from this episode, any piece of advice.
Speaker 4: I feel like the point of this episode was really
Speaker 4: to talk about the unconditional positive regard. Right, just having
Speaker 4: a glowing mentality towards your partner. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 4: that you don't hold your partner accountable. Both things can
Speaker 4: be true, right, somebody can be wonderful and why and
Speaker 4: also have a lot of room for growth that would
Speaker 4: be mutually beneficial. So I think that the formula for
Speaker 4: that is that respect and reject Like, I respect, I understand,
Speaker 4: I acknowledge, I affirm why you are, how you are
Speaker 4: and where you're at right now, and I reject that
Speaker 4: that this is all that there is. I think that together,
Speaker 4: through partnership, I think that through individual exploration, we can
Speaker 4: find ourselves at a different reality that maybe is more
Speaker 4: aligned with what both of us ultimately desire.
Speaker 3: You cook that drop.
Speaker 4: When you started swirling, I was like that, and that
Speaker 4: means that it comes out a lot of like black
Speaker 4: women on podcasts, And then they had to come up
Speaker 4: with all these ways of being, like when you cook,
Speaker 4: that's when you can feed. And I was like, when
Speaker 4: I start to feel like, oh my god, stick the
Speaker 4: landing you that it was a great high note to
Speaker 4: leave it on. We leave it leading to shan.
Speaker 1: Today was about the positive regard. That's literally what mine
Speaker 1: was about. So I got nothing to add to that.
Speaker 2: And mine is about the exploration, like the journey, the
Speaker 2: process of you know, figuring each other out and pouring
Speaker 2: into each other and seeing what you like and you
Speaker 2: don't like, and having the continued conversation.
Speaker 3: I will just add this, it's breath like.
Speaker 1: It's a fresh of breath air because there's so many Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a breath of fresh air that so many
Speaker 1: people say with podcasts or people claim to be experts,
Speaker 1: they're only claiming one thing. Here we have a young
Speaker 1: lady who's married, has two young daughters sitting here, my wife,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about accountability but also positive regard. Because
Speaker 1: people like to be combative when it comes to sex,
Speaker 1: we were able to have a conversation about sex, not
Speaker 1: be combative, disagree about a listener letter, not be combative.
Speaker 3: It's just a breath of fresh air.
Speaker 1: For me to have these conversations in a space where
Speaker 1: I can speak my piece as a man, but also listen.
Speaker 2: And learn, and for me feel vulnerable enough to feel
Speaker 2: like I'm safe if you know, my husband on one
Speaker 2: side and Shan on the other, to create a safe
Speaker 2: space for me to like open up about this.
Speaker 4: I feel so Yeah. One thing we're gonna be all
Speaker 4: is dead ass. You know, you may have a couple of.
Speaker 2: Tears, but we're gonna be honest about how we feel.
Speaker 2: And we love that we have this safe space that
Speaker 2: we've created. And Shan, thank you so so I think
Speaker 2: we can have her on every season. It's like, yeah, again,
Speaker 2: here we are because there's a lot of things that
Speaker 2: always have to be unpacked.
Speaker 1: Remember there were two seasons we didn't talk about sex,
Speaker 1: and people asked there was no sex episode this year.
Speaker 1: You're right because people continue to want to see the journey.
Speaker 1: They want to see like how are they doing? So
Speaker 1: Chang you the best, y'all.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what, take it away.
Speaker 2: Don't follow us for that, you can follow Shan. Yes,
Speaker 2: we can follow Shan. Thank you, giving you all the
Speaker 2: flowers and everything going it all, giving you a little
Speaker 2: lap dance, everything all at the same time because I'm
Speaker 2: just so incredibly happy. She's ready. She's ready for them,
Speaker 2: my girl, So tell everyone we're they can follow you
Speaker 2: to be educated about all things sham.
Speaker 4: It depends when this is coming out, but I've just
Speaker 4: been rebuilding. I'm turning forty next year.
Speaker 3: Guys, welcome today. I can't wait.
Speaker 4: And it just created such an identity crisis this year
Speaker 4: that I didn't know it was that until I really
Speaker 4: assessed it. So I was like, I work out to
Speaker 4: be a different Yeah, it was just now really assessing.
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking about the next decade of my life.
Speaker 4: So I've actually been restructuring my whole brand. So in
Speaker 4: February it'll be Lovers by Shan dot Com. Before that,
Speaker 4: I guess it'll be Instagram or you know, but I
Speaker 4: think the stay tuned for February. That's when I'm really excited,
Speaker 4: you know, launching everything that I'm really passionate about in
Speaker 4: a way that feels just so on brand for not
Speaker 4: just me, but the potential me that I'm growing into.
Speaker 3: Well, let us know.
Speaker 1: We'll do a follow up episode with the new branding
Speaker 1: and anything, because girl, I will tell you, and I
Speaker 1: will tell y'all.
Speaker 3: Is that your savings that I have learned has helped
Speaker 3: me in the bedroom.
Speaker 4: I can attest that you.
Speaker 1: Literally really be wanting to hug you because we'll do
Speaker 1: stuff and she'll be like, Shell be like, and I'll
Speaker 1: be like, Shan.
Speaker 4: You're literally a household.
Speaker 1: I told her about specifically to go in and go up.
Speaker 1: I learned about going in and going up, like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm telling y'all have no idea. I've warned so much
Speaker 1: about the woman's body. But she'd be like, oh, and
Speaker 1: I'd be like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I learned this. Give Shan her props for him
Speaker 4: stretching more now too. He's like, it's the hip flexures.
Speaker 4: The flexibility can.
Speaker 2: Get me to get into positions that I meditate stress.
Speaker 4: So in the forties we're continuing.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, girl, girl, I'm gonna give you a big hug yo, like,
Speaker 1: because I just feel I feel like I'm doing my
Speaker 1: husbandly duties. When you can take care of a woman
Speaker 1: that you're asking y'all need you to have sex four
Speaker 1: or five times a week.
Speaker 3: I want to know why I'm doing my part.
Speaker 1: So now that I know that I'm doing my part, y'all,
Speaker 1: I really want to give you a hug like I
Speaker 1: feel I feel like y'a like we.
Speaker 3: Can podcast like I love it.
Speaker 4: We're jumping off the y'all to give us in real.
Speaker 2: Time you the best, Yes, you the best, and then
Speaker 2: to round out the formalities. Be sure to find us
Speaker 2: on Patreon, y'all to see exclusive dead Ass podcast video content.
Speaker 2: You can find us on social media Kadeen I am and.
Speaker 1: I am Devo, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: be sure to rate, review and subscribe, and also pick
Speaker 1: up your copy if we over meet the counter intuitive
Speaker 1: approach to getting everything you want out of your relationship.
Speaker 4: And games of desire. Don't forget that I love that subtitle.
Speaker 2: It's still there. It's still there on a pop in.
Speaker 2: Those two books should be on your shelf for sure.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all, dead Ass see you next time.
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